LIVERPOOL MATCH THE ARSENAL CUP LEGENDS OF 1992-93 SEASON

by .

So Liverpool’s season ended with 2 domestic cup wins. An incredible achievement. My first ever Cup Final experience was Arsenal vs Sheffield Wednesday when we won the cup double in 1993. Klopp and his team of heroes stand tall with the heroes of that era that set the standard we now see today.

It’s tough for Liverpool, they are getting bantered off the internet today, people have been keeping receipts, waiting for their moment to strike.

… and it’s been brutal.

Michael Owen was insistent that Liverpool were still the best team in Europe despite not being able to win a cup final in open player or score a goal in 5 hours worth of finals.

When it comes down to it, sport is won in the margins, you can be legendary or a fraud on the flip of a coin. Right now, everyone is poking holes at Klopp complaining about Madrid’s keeper being too good. All the psychoanalysts peddling ‘hugs, kisses, and planning’ being the difference in the FA Cup are struggling to work out how a 10-a-day manager accused of being too casual at Bayern and lacking tactical rigor could roll into Saint-Denis and shithouse a supposedly much better Liverpool side.

Liverpool go from QUADRUPLE LEGENDS to the team that blew the easy run to the Champions League final.

They go from indestructible heroes to looking like a group that might be about to look decline in the face.

The average age of their starting 11 is about 29. Injuries have been kind to them. It is going to be very difficult for them to replace with the quality they need.

Sadio Mane is already signaling he wants out. Mo Salah still hasn’t signed a deal. The best sporting director on the planet has quit, likely because he knows Klopp wants to control the rebuilt now he’s king.

The dip might not come next season, but I’ve no doubt the Arsenal team are looking at where our squad is now, hoping that when Liverpool drop, we are there to move on them.

What I did hate last night was the disgraceful treatment of English fans. The behaviour merchants are out in force, but there is simply far too much evidence from actual media people with cameras to put this one on the fans. The French police are brutal, they don’t even save it just for the English, they aren’t good to French away fans in general. But the idea that you can have a ticket, turn up to the ground on time, and be told to just fuck off, then get pepper-sprayed should be a scandal of the highest order. It was absolutely horrendous to hear that gangs were picking off fans after and stealing their phones and money. If that happened in England, it would be a global news story, but when it happens in France, it gets brushed under the carpet until the next big event when they do the same thing again.

Dortmund has signed 6 players already.

Why are they so good at getting players in the door early?

Drives me up the wall.

Arsenal needs to shift players this summer regardless of the clear bank of cash that has been made available.

  • Lucas Torreira
  • Nico Pepe
  • Bernd Leno
  • Bob Holding
  • Hector Bellerin
  • Reiss Nelson
  • Pablo Mari
  • Daniel Ballard
  • Alex Runarrson

I would have put Ainsley there, but for me, he should be offered the chance to be our right back again next season. He has the mobility, the power, the technique… he just lacks the right attitude sometimes. He also needs to be given the opportunity to be right back after he refused. Part of good leadership is to always give people a way back if they change.

Benfica is apparently in for Bernd Leno but they are swerving at the £8.5m fee we’re looking for. That is a keeper that cost us £25m, has been a German international and is definitely Premier League standard. Edu really needs to start shifting bodies for actual money this season. The Mavropanos fee was pitiful considering the talent as was agreeing to sell Guendouzi before we saw how good he’d be at Marseille.

Every penny counts, let’s not have a summer of giving away players for nothing.

Still, at least there’s a structure in place at Arsenal and our recruitment, in the main, is about 1000x better than it has been. Everything is mapped to a footballing philosophy and a profile.

United? They hired in Ralf Rangnick, who tanked on the coaching side, but the fear was he’d be allowed to rebuild them… and rebuilding clubs is what he’s good at. Well, he’s out the door. He came in, saw that it was a shitshow, said as much, and that’s that. He’d prefer to manage Austria. United, by far the most reactionary club in the world, has said goodbye.

Like, what are they thinking? I swear their biggest issue has been catering to the Twitter accounts with the little numbers and the Paul Pogba avatars. Who picks up the recruitment? Are they putting it on Ten Haag? Are they bringing Marc Overmars out of his scandalous cancellation? Or are they just going to expensively wing it again?

Whatever their plan is… it doesn’t seem like it’s in place as of now, so that is another challenge they’ll have to overcome.

Bigger issue for them is what they do with Cristiano and Fernandes who don’t really seem like ideal candidates to play the sort of football Ten Haag has been known for.

ANYWAY, why don’t you jump into some content below and sign up for Patreon because we are doing some EXCLUSIVE Patreon content tomorrow about transfers and things.

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Should be cracker. Thank you to those that have signed up already. You are all amazingly generous. x

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369 Responses to “LIVERPOOL MATCH THE ARSENAL CUP LEGENDS OF 1992-93 SEASON”

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  1. englandsbest

    China1

    To answer your question, Arsenal are in a long-term process which necessitates forward thinking. For me the absence of signings in the Jan window was a verification: it implied the Club preferred to wait for the players needed. In other words they knew who those players are, and are pretty sure of getting them.

  2. Nelson

    Bankz
    “We’ve comfortably become a Europa/midtable team”
    ——————————————————————————————–
    Pedro defended the club not signing any player in Jan. At that time, we had a good chance to get top4. And we wanted to save money for the Summer. That’s the mentality of a midtable team.

  3. InsideRight

    englandsbest

    You win today’s award for wishful thinking. Congratulations. We have heard the club has its player profile and a list of players it wants to sign. But reality has a habit of taking such plans and chucking them out of the window, because we will not be the only club vying for their signatures and we have a track record of moving at snail’s pace when it comes to getting business done.

  4. IAT-Robbie

    “Shouldn’t our big chances be like 6th or higher ? The stats doesn’t match lol.”

    Naija,

    The stats don’t match because according to FBRef generated xG includes factors like errors leading to shots (Nketiah vs Chelsea), rebounds, penalties, direct free-kicks and own-goals. For instance when Nketiah, chased down the loose ball from Christensen and scored, it generated xG but it wasn’t a “chance created”. There was no pass from an Arsenal teammate, it was just Nketiah’s instincts at play. That’s where the discrepancy is happening.

    “Chances created” by nature have to include a final pass or action from a teammate before a shot attempt. The key word is “created”. They do not always include the above factors but sometimes do. A big chance created is just a chance created by a teammate that has an xG of 0.38 or more. It’s not any more “BS” than “chances created” is.

    Whether they were “created” by a teammate or not, Arsenal have had 69 big chances, 8th best in the league. That’s our full total. 37 (54%) of the 69 big chances were created by an Arsenal teammate. In comparison, Liverpool have had 128 big chances, 1st best in the league. 97 (76%) of the 128 big chances were created by a Liverpool teammate.

    Arsenal shoot a lot. That is true and we’re 4th best. More shots will always generate more xG and this naturally accumulates. However, a lot of our shots are not coming from good chances. We’ve taken 589 shots, 69 (11.7%) of these shots were from big chances and had an xG greater than 0.38. In comparison, Liverpool took 729 shots, 128 (17.6%) of these were from big chance scenarios. The difference is quite stark and this is what @ andy1886 means.

    So ultimately.
    Are we 17th best at generating good and well-orchestrated chances as a team – Yes, we are
    Are we the 17th best attack in the league – No, of course not.
    Is there much room for improvement in our attacking patterns – Yes, there is. Much more

  5. WengerEagle

    TR7

    Djokovic-Nadal tomorrow. How do you see it going down? Unfortunately doesn’t look like Rafa is 100% physically which he needs to beat Djoker.

    I see Djokovic winning in 4 sets. Alcaraz in the SF will be no joke though, kid has shown he can beat Djokovic on Clay already.

  6. InsideRight

    englandsbest – “InsideRight Do you give an award for getting things right? If so you owe me a few”

    Now you are living in an alt-reality. Several times on here I have challenged things you’ve said with evidence and invited you to disprove what I’ve said. Each time you’ve gone quiet and moved on. Name one thing I’ve said on here that I’ve got wrong. I’ll wait. Somehow I expect some inane rambling response that deflects from doing so.

  7. andy1886

    EB: “Do you give an award for getting things right? If so you owe me a few”

    Would that be for the “we will sign three top players in January” prediction or the oft repeated “Odegaard will convince his pal Haaland to join Arsenal”?

    Not exactly hitting it out of the park are we?

  8. Valentin

    IAT+Robbie,

    well explained.

    That’s why long passes or cut backs by Liverpool fullbacks to the D create big chances for Liverpool. Meanwhile Ødegaard 5 yards lateral passes to Partey or Xhaka does not. Same with Tierney who keep make looping crosses to the opposition defenders.

    Pedro can pretend that the high number of Spurs goals coming from own goal is sheer luck when it is obviously not.
    Hard, low crosses in the corridor of uncertainty tend to create confusion and panic among defenders. On the other hand looping crosses to shortish CF surrounded by giant CBs is unlikely to lead to an own goal.

  9. Graham62

    Irrespective of the fake ticket scenario in Paris, let’s make things perfectly clear, UEFA and FIFA are shite governing bodies.
    The fans are always the ones to suffer and yet the delegates, dignitaries, sponsors and celebrities, are all catered for.
    Personally I think it’s about time that finals should be for the fans and a few sponsors. Let the celebrities go through the rigmarole of ordering tickets for themselves.
    All this ‘ footballing family’ crap also gets on my nerves. Giving WC p’s to Russia and now Qatar is laughable. I wonder how many Rolex watches were handed out for those events?

  10. Nigel Tufnel

    From Welbeast on twitter:

    “Klopp has spent £554 million.

    1 Premier League in 7 attempts
    1 FA Cup in 7 attempts
    1 League Cup in 7 attempts
    1 Champions League in 5 attempts
    0 Europa League in 1 attempt.

    Half a billion pounds for 4 trophies out of a possible 27…

    At Least Pep spends and wins.”

  11. Mr Serge

    DissenterMay 30, 2022 14:04:16
    Imagine 500 people showing up at the games with fake tickets and refusing to leave
    There were reports that lots of scouters were traveling to Paris without tickets, even though the allotment was all used up.
    No one expected some fo those fans would show up with *** trying to enter the stadium.Liverpool fans disproportionately give English football a bad name when they travel abroad.
    I still wonder what that 1988-89 Arsenal team could have done in Europe if not for the 5-year bans that Liverpool earned for everyone else.

    totally we were dominant in europe pre heysel

  12. Valentin

    It never made sense to me that UEFA kept between 30% to 45% of final stadium tickets for itself. That just encourage corruption, fraud and cronyism. There should not be more than 10,000 tickets reserved for the organisation.

    Was it not Sheriff v Real Madrid game where because of the size of their stadium the host team had a smaller allocation than the UEFA family?

  13. Bill

    I’m sure that there are many facets yo the role of technical director that most if us are blissfully unaware, but having said this, most fans are underwhelmed by Edu.

    Is there any chance that the club could move aggressively to sign up Michael Edwards?

    I don’t believe that one appointment changes everything, but surely the club have made overtures? He is a supremely successful candidate with years of experience working in the Premiership, who has a remarkable record of buying and selling players home and abroad.

    I really don’t want to see a re-run of letting startlingly high calibre candidates float away, when our incumbent TD is better known for his skills on the BBQ and his friendly relationship with dodgy past employees and agents.

  14. WengerEagle

    Nigel

    I still believe that Pep is slightly above Klopp or at least on par but that is a shit statistic and of course it is from Twatter.

    It doesn’t take into account 3 CL Finals in 6 seasons (you cannot count his first season coming in and cleaning up Brendan’s mess).

    Or three 92+ points PL seasons which wins you the title in every other PL season in history besides Chelsea in 2005, 2017 and City in 2018, 2019 and 2022. 5 out of what, 30?

    City over the past 4 seasons combined have won just ONE more PL point than Liverpool have.

    Only winning 1 of those 4 titles is insanely unlucky tbh.

  15. WengerEagle

    And it took Klopp x2 full season to put the pieces in places.

    Klopp after 3 total seasons and 2 full seasons took Liverpool to a CL Final as well as two top 4 finishes. In full season 3 Liverpool won the CL and finished runners-up with 97 PL points.

    For context, Arteta is now going into full season 3. And the expectations are solely top 4.

  16. Tom

    Nigel, Klopp’s record in finals is underwhelming, but what’s missing in that tweet is that Pep has spent over 1 billion while at City, and is the all time biggest spender in football history.

    I also wonder if in a couple years time you’ll be posting quotes on Arteta’s spend and his trophy haul.
    Probably not.

  17. Bob N16

    At least Liverpool generate the money that they spend. City have been financially doped for years. If City hadn’t received such a financial advantage, the number of PL wins by Liverpool would likely be to have won the last 5 titles.

    City as the poor cousins of United have had a lot of ‘goodwill’. I believe the criticism they get due to the financial steroiding from an oil state, a massive reason for how they’ve achieved their success , will steadily increase as Newcastle join their path for ‘glory’.

  18. WengerEagle

    And Klopp by 2018/19 had spent in the ball-park of £380m.

    We under Arteta have spent £210m. It’s not a vast difference really. That investment built Klopp a super-team while more than half of that investment and we are not even a top 4 side.

    And £170m of that £380m was spent in the summer of 2018.

    So, Klopp spent £210m to reach a CL Final and have finished 4th twice. Arteta spending that same money and being at the club as long has an FA Cup and x2 8th place and x1 5th place PL finishes. Not even mentioning the embarrassing EL exits.

  19. Tom

    “For context, Arteta is now going into full season 3. And the expectations are solely top 4.”

    That’s not the worst of it.
    The really sad part hidden in that sentence is that Arteta will most likely keep his job even if he fails to meet these expectations.
    And the same people shitting on Klopp now will find the reasons why he should.

  20. WengerEagle

    And while we love the FA Cup let’s not forget that a long past competing in the PL/CL Wenger won x3 FA Cups in 3 of his last 5 seasons at the club.

    And managers such as Redknapp, Bobby Martinez, Di Matteo and a long-past it Van Gaal won it too.

  21. salparadisenyc

    Its incredibly fun bantering Liverpool after watching season melt away but let’s not act as if this Liverpool side are somehow a group of mismanaged bottlers. When’s the last time Arsenal went to 3x Champions league finals in 5 years winning one of them against the darkest of feeble forces?

    WE
    Tsitsipas looks to be in a spot of bother here.

  22. Nigel Tufnel

    Wenger Eagle,

    I’m a Klopp admirer, brilliant manager, maybe the best in the world. Loved him from Dortmund and knew he’d be trouble for everyone if he came to the premier League..I dreamed that Arsene would’ve passed over the reigns to him.

    But that stat from Welbeast is super simple, and completely accurate, even though it has a point of view.

    Your response is a good one in defending his record. That’s why a tweet like that can stir up good debate.
    So I’d say that Klopps been a spectacular manager, but just a bit unlucky.

    But the things that you listed as not being taken into account are just points totals that add up to nothing memorable in the end.

    I respect Klopp, but I’m sick of his complaining and obnoxious goal celebrating. So not too much sympathy from me.

    Also, the only final they won was against Tottenham.

  23. WengerEagle

    Sal

    Tsitsipas and Zverev are mental midgets in Slams. I don’t see either winning more than x1-2 in their careers and that will be once Djokovic and Nadal have hung up the racket.

    Alcaraz on the other hand imo is the real deal even though it is still early stages. But he looks a phenom and has that veteran mental resilience to him and is a brilliant player on both Clay and HC.

    Think out of the new gen it will be Alcaraz, Medvedev, Sinner to dominate. This Rune kid is looking pretty special on Clay himself.

  24. raptora

    If Pep wasn’t here, Klopp would have dominated the league year after year. Truth is that with all of City’s money, they wouldn’t have been as dominant with another manager as they have been wtih Pep.

  25. salparadisenyc

    Eagle

    Next gen is certainly making presence felt, i’d add Aliassime into that mixer although i’m not a fan.

    Alcarez clearly a cut above, with his gear and mentality could see him and Medvedev dominating for the a serious stretch. Zverev a weird one, absolute beast on his day with a what seems to be a pea sized brain. Pleased tennis ‘potentially’ turning corner from the big three, Joker the x factor as nobody knows how long he can go.

  26. WengerEagle

    Nigel

    It’s true, football is decided on fine margins and you are right you do not get a trophy for a 97 point Runner-Ups finish.

    But I don’t think that it will be forgotten about even in decades to come. 97 points is just stupidly good and I would be willing to bet very good money that a 97 point tally would win you the PL in each year in the next 50 seasons to come.

    CL Final is a huge achievement too let’s not forget. It is to this day Wenger’s peak performance in the CL and Klopp has managed 4 of them and has won 1.

  27. Thorough

    Sal paradise.
    This is the first Grand Slam I’m hearing this Rune Holger Lad. I think I played him to lose to Shapovalov in the earlier round and he won 3 straight sets. The way these ITF boys just jump into mainstream tennis and dominate straightaway is ridiculous.

  28. raptora

    I know it’s the luck of the draw, but how fkin annoying that Rafa and Djoko are playing in a quarter-final of Roland Garros?! I know that the most awaited game of the tourney will not be the final. And it’s sad because imagine if we could see the 2 giants face off once more.

  29. Mr Serge

    ValentinMay 30, 2022 15:08:46
    It never made sense to me that UEFA kept between 30% to 45% of final stadium tickets for itself. That just encourage corruption, fraud and cronyism. There should not be more than 10,000 tickets reserved for the organisation.Was it not Sheriff v Real Madrid game where because of the size of their stadium the host team had a smaller allocation than the UEFA family?

    totally agree with this its maddening

  30. Naija+soccer

    IAT

    Thanks for that breakdown. Job well done sir. That was interesting. One of the things i got from that was that big chances created doesn’t tell the full story of an attack.

    Also it seems big chances created, only contributes a small percentage in regards to the Total shots/attack registered by a team. Only 11% for us and just 17% for the mighty Liverpool

  31. WengerEagle

    Sal

    Zverev has the game to beat anyone on his day and he actually is best equipped to beat Djokovic out of the newgen imo (well, besides Alcaraz) as he showed in the Olympics and the ATP Finals but he just mentally checks out in Slams when facing serious adversity. Doesn’t matter if it’s the QF/SF/F he just cannot get over the hump in Slams.

    Yeah Alcaraz will win the most because he has proven he can win on both HC and Clay. 19 years old, sky is the limit and touch wood he stays healthy and focused like the big 3 he could clean up on Slams for years to come. Med will win lots of slams on HC but doubt he ever wins RG. Same for Wimbledon.

    Nadal, Djoker or Fed would all have easily won 30-35 Slams if it were not for competing against each other.

  32. WengerEagle

    ”The way these ITF boys just jump into mainstream tennis and dominate straightaway is ridiculous.”

    Kid is just turned 19 and won the Boy’s title in 2019 in RG and he looks like a seasoned vet out here.

    Giving Tsitsipas the run-around and Stefanos is a top 3-5 Clay player.

  33. Graham62

    Klopp just ahead of Pep for me.
    6 years at the club and all that investment and still no CL success.
    I also find it quite amusing on here with folk shitting on Liverpool, when we haven’t done anything at all in Europe.

  34. WengerEagle

    Graham

    Becker was a phenom. Won x2 Slams in his teens. .Strange that he only went on to win 6 total.

    By the way, just googled him and do you know that he is currently in Prison? Lol. At least we won’t have to listen to him at Wimbledon eh?

  35. salparadisenyc

    Big win for Rune, kid had never won a grand slam match until this French Open. Now into the QF, great stuff.

    WE think I mentioned this saw Alcarez live in last years open, talk about stroking the ball. Has it all, so powerful.

  36. The Real Vieira Lynn

    Valentin & Raptora

    bang on assessment regarding the rather underwhelming Ode…no one’s saying he doesn’t have something on offer, but if we ever hope to escape this endless loop of negative footballing we can’t constantly deploy Xhaka on the left and Ode on the right…as I’ve said all along these particular players enable our manager-in-training to lean into his most negative inclinations, which is why I truly believe that until we get someone of “real” consequence up top, who can somehow embolden our timid manager to loosen the reigns and employ some more directness in our attack, we will never progress…in fact, I would suggest that we will be incredibly fortunate to even match our current season’s end table position, unless others around us trip over their collective dicks again

  37. Tom

    .”I respect Klopp, but I’m sick of his complaining and obnoxious goal celebrating. So not too much sympathy from me.”

    This sentence sums up football opinions in general for me.

    For me Klopp’s also a complete wanker for his gripping teams defend in a low block against his style of football, but I would never tweet his record against Pep’s without total spend for both.

    It’d be like me shitting on Mclaren F1 team for not winning more, and saying at least when Mercedes spend, they win……..when they too outspend Mclaren 2:1

  38. InsideRight

    englandsbest – “InsideWrongThat’s easy. I don’t have to look further than your last post.”

    And right on cue, there is the deflection. So predictable. Cannot argue back with any evidence, cannot defend your position, you just run off at the mouth with your ridiculous sycophantic nonsense then blather crap like that retort. Grow up for your own sake.

  39. MidwestGun

    no one’s saying he doesn’t have something on offer,
    ______
    Are you sure? because that’s pretty much what everyone but a few have been saying non-stop day after day since the season ended. When in fact Odegaard was one of our best summer signings.
    The problems with our team lies further back in the midfield and the defense. Namely Xhaka who’s efforts in an adjusted attacking midfielder role were pretty pathetic and Tierney and Partey who can’t stay healthy. But the real problem is that Ben White did not deliver as advertised at an absorbent price-tag. He was supposed to be the key to unlocking our attack from the back … the new “David Luiz” if you will, without the errors. But that never materialized other then a few rare games and the errors were not much less. When we could have spent that money on an attacking player. So for me the post season Odegaard bashing bonanza is severely misplaced..

  40. WengerEagle

    Sal

    Alcaraz is a phenom, you can tell there is something different about him to the rest of them. Reminds me of young Rafa in so many ways. He looks even more well-rounded than teenage Rafa in fact although Rafa vastly improved in his early 20s into an all-court beast whereas in his teens he was already the Clay God.

    Also is a marketers wet dream. Handsome kid, speaks English well already and will improve, has that bit of lovable arrogance to his demeanor.

    As close to Rafa 2.0 as you will see.

  41. Valentin

    Lynn

    At the highest level, for a 4-2-3-1 to work effectively, you need to have two dynamic, physical dominant, great passers of the ball in midfield or world class players further up.

    Arsenal has neither. Worst our midfield does not provoke the opposition. Against well organised low bloc, we then resort to long distance pot shot to score or to our strikers to create their own opportunities by harassing the defence.

    People can clamour for a tall striker, but unless he is exceptional in the air and with his back toward goal, we will soon see him getting exasperated by the same slow, ponderous, lateral play and he will start to drop into midfield to touch the ball.

    You know Arsenal attack has a problem when Elneny is statistically the midfielder with the most progressive ball in a game.
    Personally if Arsenal keeps that 4-2-3-1 formation, I would rather take a combination of Partey and AMN to protect the defense. Both are agile and cannot be physically bullied. Put ESR further up in front of them and this team would not be so one paced.

  42. The Real Vieira Lynn

    Midwest

    we’re actually not that far off, opinion-wise, about our offensive woes. as we both agree on our inherent problems involving both Xhaka, as the sideways pivot, and the fact that White has been incredibly underwhelming from a stretch pass capacity, so at least we’ll always have that in common…as for the Ode gig, he tucks to far out wide right, so we lack any real central presence, except when our Strikers come deep and play with their backs to goal, he doesn’t provide the necessary protection for Saka, visa vie overlapping and/or dummy runs, he absolutely disappears against teams of consequence or against anyone who game-plans him out of a particular fixture, he telegraphs his passes far too often, like a poor man’s Ozil, and he’s a bang average shooter….so little “tidy” tricks aside, he’s functionally a luxury player, who should sit behind ESR, who at least brings directness and the potential of goals to our rather dire mix

  43. salparadisenyc

    Ødegaard becoming Le Groves new Özil, pull it together people the kids quality coming into his peak years. Le Groves big grip with Ø is many feel he/Arteta marginalised ESR by putting him on the flank and opting for the Norwegian. Arteta is definitely guilty for not rotating enough but if were really honest we’ve got two quality options for the 10 role or dualing 8s as they progress. I’ve zero issue with that.

  44. MidwestGun

    Naija .. I like that Ode can play between the lines on the half turn, is always available and has a range of passes when he is close to the penalty box that can free up players because he has good vision and I like that he doesn’t shirk pressing and defensive duties. He has endless energy as well he will give you his best effort for 90 minutes. Excellent set piece taker, too. And he will get better as he is still young and he is not afraid of the Captain’s armband.

    What I don’t like is his dribbling ability and acceleration and I don’t like when he plays deeper because for me he needs to stay closer to the penalty area as he doesn’t have the ability to beat a double team very often like a Saka for example, And at times he is not very strong on the ball when pressed especially in pressure games we need to win

    Good and bad like every plyer really but certainly one of our better players this season.

  45. WengerEagle

    I saw it mentioned on here yesterday by the way that Mane is going to Bayern as a Lewandowski replacement, wtf lol?

    Lewandowski is a 50 goal a season man, Mane is good for maybe 20-25.

    Lewandowski is leaving from the looks of it though. Wants to join Barca apparently. Just shows you the massive pull that they still have.

    Kind of funny that Auba gets his dream move to Spain and just 6 months later his eternal Bundesliga rival in Lewy is joining to stick him on the bench.

  46. Valentin

    For those who don’t understand why Liverpool fans exasperated a lot of Paris resident on Saturday.

    https://youtu.be/8xAzs1FKcHI

    This is supposed to be a family park. I sincerely doubt that many French family felt safe in such environment. When Japanese fans travel, there is never such mess left behind.

  47. Tom

    Leicester conceded 41 goals in 2018/19 and 50 the following season when they started Fofana at CB, and Legrove went into a frenzied Fofana cost them the CL places mode.

    Arsenal conceded 39 last season and 48 with Ben White at CB this season.
    Any chance he might’ve cost us the CL places ?

  48. Terraloon

    So the Chelsea’s takeover is now complete and they are out of sanctions.

    Just listening to Sky some of the numbers are quite staggering.

    250 enquiries, 100+ personal meetings with individuals and entities, 32 given access to full data, 12 bids , 4 shortlisted down to 3 Bohey and co new owners.

    It was pretty obvious that they were going to be sold for big numbers but didn’t really think that the way in which on here reacted to snippets of news that were clearly false and treated them as gospel.

    From an Arsenal perspective it will be interesting and potentially a worry as to how Chelsea operate in terms of big money signings but I think it’s pretty obvious that they will be operating in a far more focused and data driven manner

    Add to that the fact that they have sponsorship deals that are fast approaching conclusion and from what I read they have already lined up a new far more lucrative deal in terms of short sleeve sponsor and their 3 deal of circa £40 million per season won’t be extended indeed they are in line for a £60 million per annum deal.

    In effect they are able to trade without sanctions and the timing of the takeover gives them time and money which will not be to Arsenals advantage

  49. MidwestGun

    Yes I do agree Odegaard needs to work on his shooting especially from the dribble and on the half volley. but he still shoots better then Ozil ever did. I think a lot of the angst is that he was preferred to ESR by Arteta, really.. I understand that argument a little better then he is shit.

  50. salparadisenyc

    “I understand that argument a little better then he is shit.”

    It’s LG Middy, there is no nuance its either black or white within these walls for many.

  51. MidwestGun

    I think if Pool let Mane go… they screwed up before the season even starts. Just saw Serge Gnabry wants 250k a wk.. man I would love to get him but that seems steep. .

  52. WengerEagle

    Tom

    It is hilarious to be fair that Fofana was deemed a failure of a teenager being a PL CB purely because Leicester conceded 50 (only 39 with him playing) and they go on the very next season without him to concede 59 goals.

    And with our £100m new backline/GK we concede 48 PL goals, 9 more than last season. Pedro has been strangely quiet on that contradiction.

    Ben White is not a teenager last I checked.

  53. Valentin

    WengerEagle,

    This Xavi team does not play like the old Barcelona. There is no tiki-taka. It is play fast on the wings and crosses/cut back in dangerous area for a fox in the box to finish the chances. Aubameyang may be a better fit to that team than Lewandowski.

    Lewandowski is the more rounded player, but Aubameyang is more lethal. His quasi-telepathic understanding with Dembele means more goals. Lewandowski may be the one who end up on the bench. He is younger than Aubameyang, so he may have year after the next.

  54. MidwestGun

    I know Sal.. LG is basically hot – take central at times or making predictions on next season before the transfer window has even got started. Some of them are too Nostradumbass. for my liking. … just sayin.

  55. The Real Vieira Lynn

    Valentin

    agree with the vast majority of your above response, in that our 4-2-3-1 base formation is rather uninventive and unproductive, due to both our manager’s lack of direct intent and the players being regularly deployed in the deeper-lying and midfield positions…now if we were inviting pressure, like Klopp’s Dortmund 4-2-3-1, so as to counter with pace, I’m totally on board…in fact, if we got a Striker who had both a world class first touch and could make the requisite runs required, I think we have the personnel in wider positions to pursue this course of action, but that doesn’t appear to be in MA managerial DNA…as such, I would suspect that the best way to address our problems is to bring in a steely DM, who can provide the necessary cover and service, then dedicate more players from within the midfield in and around the box, especially if we’re going to rely too heavily again on crosses into the box from wide positions… so maybe our formation looks like a 4-2-3-1 at kickoff, but acts much more like a 4-1-4-1

  56. InsideRight

    If Mane leaves Liverpool, who in their squad is going to be able to step up to deliver flying elbows to opponents?

  57. salparadisenyc

    If you had to go back and take a redo on this past season’s window it would surely be for many, bring Saliba back and take the Ben White cash and put it into a goal scorer. Was Tammy for me last summer with Laca out the door and we saw White. Agree didn’t move the needle for that cash, let’s hope that changes.

    Looking into this summer i’m not completely sold on Jesus, I really like him just not sure he’s the one to score the numbers we need. Add Jesus and Gnabry with Pepe out and were in business baby.

  58. azed

    Pedro

    No disrespect to you and your writing but have you realized that your strategy or whatever PR you are pushing for Arteta is basically “We will get top 4 because others will fail”?

    That’s not the strategy of a generational coach with sauce.

  59. Dissenter

    Valentin
    Traveling Liverpool fans are shit.
    They do know how to use the emotional card though
    Go too hard on them and you know what they will pull out, starts with 8th alphabet.

    I’m sick of reading the ‘my mate bought s ticket and they told him it was fake’….maybe he mistakenly got swindled and got a sham ticket instead.
    That’s a lot of trash to leave behind. I doubt that Glastonbury generates that much in five days.

  60. WengerEagle

    Middy

    Wasn’t the way I intended the point to come across.

    1) It is absurd to blame a sole player for a total goal conceded total. To deem Fofana as the main reason as Pedro did was very silly and as we have seen this season, the real weak-link of that backline is Soyuncu who is a poor defender and a bullet dodged for us.

    2) For all we pumped into the backline £100m, we only conceded 2 less goals than that shite Leicester defence.

    If people want to blame it on youth:

    LB- Tierney 24, Justin 23.
    RB- Tomiyasu 23, Castagne 25.
    CB- White 24, Soyuncu 25.
    CB- Fofana 20. Gabriel 24.

  61. MidwestGun

    I would have taken whatever Mourinho was offering for Xhaka as well last summer and thrown down on a midfielder, but I fully realize I have an anti-Xhaka agenda ..and admit to it.

  62. Dissenter

    I think Ben White was bought before they realized their purse was all but spent
    Once they spent that humongous sum, there wasn’t enough for a midfielder so they kept Xhaka.
    By the time Tammy came up, we were running on fumes, they were telling the manager he has two strikers on a combined half-million weekly wages.

    The Ben White signing was a stratified blunder that will continue to dog us. Brighton didn’t replace the player they sold for £50 [+5] million.
    Ben White is the reason Saliba coming back may not Warri because Arteta loves to prove himself right.
    Is Ben White a good CB?
    Yes but in a generic manner, there’s nothing special and you don’t get that feeling that happens when you’re watching an Uber talented player.

  63. azed

    “It is hilarious to be fair that Fofana was deemed a failure of a teenager being a PL CB purely because Leicester conceded 50 (only 39 with him playing) and they go on the very next season without him to concede 59 goals.”

    I had this argument like a million times with a poster who’s name escapes me right now and Pedro also used this same argument against playing Saliba.

    I should look for that post and ask Pedro his view on Ben White seeing as our defence was poorer

  64. MidwestGun

    Eagle- yep I got your point. I do think hindsight obviously helps with opinions.. the arguments for Ben White last summer after the conclusion of our season do seem silly now. He did have moments where I wasn’t mad at him but they were too few and far between and he definitely didn’t impact our attack as promised.

  65. The Real Vieira Lynn

    there’s no doubt that we should have embedded Saliba last season and allocated the monies used to purchase White towards more pressing needs, especially considering last year was supposedly year 1 of 3, but getting Jesus isn’t the answer to what ails us…we simply can’t rely on such a diminutive frontline, now that the purple patch kid has re-upped…of course, I’m a huge fan of Gnabry’s and I never wanted him to leave in the first place, but he’s best deployed out wide right, which is where Saka is predominantly played, so I’m not sure that would be the best use of our funds unless we were going to make some serious tactical changes, which seems highly unlikely with MA at the helm

  66. WengerEagle

    Valentin

    Lewy is older than Auba, by a year. 34 in August would you believe? Doesn’t feel as though he has been on the scene as long as a Benzema despite virtually being as old.

    I cannot believe that Barca would bench a 50 goal a season ST in Lewandowski that is far superior to Auba if we are honest. I don’t really understand what you mean about Auba being more ruthless/clinical than Lewandowski, what is that based on? Certainly not conversion rate.

  67. IAT-Robbie

    “Only 11% for us and just 17% for the mighty Liverpool”

    Naija,

    Thanks man and no problem. Yeah big chances do contribute towards a very low % of total shots but it’s a different story when it comes to goals scored.

    For instance, from our 37 big chance created, we scored 27 goals (73%).
    City scored 54 goals from 87 big chances created (62%).
    Liverpool scored 70 goals from 97 big chances created (72%).
    Chelsea scored 44 goals from 73 big chances created (60%)
    Spurs scored 44 goals from 84 big chances created (52%)

    Evidently, big chances created are an important metric. They are the most reliable source of goals for most teams. If we want to score more, we’ll have to perform better in that metric. .

  68. Thorough

    We.
    The way these ITF boys just jump into mainstream tennis and dominate straightaway is ridiculous.”Kid is just turned 19 and won the Boy’s title in 2019 in RG and he looks like a seasoned vet out here.Giving Tsitsipas the run-around and Stefanos is a top 3-5 Clay player.

    I refuse to follow next-gen. Just believed if they’re good enough they’ll get to the mainstream eventually. I somehow caught with of Augier and Alcatraz before they became big. This Holger guy totally escaped me and lost me good money.

  69. Valentin

    WengerEagle,

    Lewandowski being older than Auba is blowing my mind. I was convinced that he had at least 2 years on Auba.
    I think that in situation that required one touch striking of the ball Auba is better. I consider Lewandowski the better overall player, but Auba better suited to Current Barcelona style of play.

    I also think that Lewandowski is not as lethal as Auba as shown when played for Poland. I don’t follow Poland close but whenever I have seen them in qualifier or tournament I was never impressed by his contribution. I had the feeling that he was pulled down by the weight of expectation instead of lifting his team.

  70. WengerEagle

    Not a fan of Women’s tennis normally but this is actually a great match, the Chinese girl is playing out of her mind and Swiatek the massive favourite has just lost her first set in over a month of tennis.

  71. WengerEagle

    Midwest

    Yeah and look we have White now so we can only agonize over the Saliba/money wasted thing so much, I get that. White for the record looks a good player, just not as good as we all had hoped for paying top dollar.

    Dissenter

    Barca aren’t going to play with 2 up top, Xavi isn’t a wingback manager like Conte or Tuchel. He loves his midfield control. Auba will be benched no doubt if Lewandowski comes in.

  72. Thorough

    Swiatek down by a set? She’s been flogging people under 15 games. I was too sure I played her to win under 17.5. I have to pay more attention now.

  73. IAT-Robbie

    “That’s why long passes or cut backs by Liverpool fullbacks to the D create big chances for Liverpool. Meanwhile Ødegaard 5 yards lateral passes to Partey or Xhaka does not. Same with Tierney who keep make looping crosses to the opposition defenders.”

    LoL. But Valentin…Arteta said “it’s maths, pure maths and it will happen”
    I am sure we’ll be seeing the results soon.

  74. Valentin

    Lynn,

    I am not really keen on the 4-1-4-1 formation unless we are facing a very low bloc team with one but not two pacy winger.
    Arteta tried 4-1-4-1 with Partey against Emery and got his nose blooded. ESR as a false 9 was the cherry on top of a cake of stupidity.

    My fear with Arteta is that in a 4-1-4-1 Partey will be required to cover the entire pitch. Arsenal will het overrun and Partey will get an injury.

  75. WengerEagle

    Valentin

    It’s a bit moot to take a player’s international performance over their club one considering we are not wondering who should be leading Poland’s attack. Auba doesn’t have a good record for Gabon himself. Then you have guys like Klose and Robbie Keane who were world class internationally and good but not great at club level.

    Lewandowski was a superior striker at Dortmund and vastly superior at Bayern to Auba. For all of those who say he has had it easy at Bayern, just you watch the massive drop-off they will suffer now when he leaves for scoring goals.

    Very surprised that they did not push harder for Haland but who knows, maybe they did and City was just the more attractive destination.

  76. Terraloon

    WE

    Big article in today’s papers about Barca’s financial plight.

    Far from being able to sign Lewa it seems they haven’t got anywhere near the finances to sign Christensen from Chelsea.

    Lewa isn’t going to Spain he will ship up in the PL

  77. Dissenter

    Terraloon
    I believe Barca are happy to have all those half-arsed articles about their financial problems circulate because it strengthens their negotiating power
    Players who are drawn to Barca because of their history won’t expect Barca to roll out big money so it helps smoothen out deals.
    Lewandowski isn’t moving to Barca to earn the same or more wages than he earned at Bayern.. He won’t expect Barca to match the £350k weekly wages he made at Bayern.

  78. Valentin

    Eagle,

    Bayern tried but soon realised that financially they could not afford Haaland. Also there was big questions on his real interest in joining Bayern. They won’t pay more than 250kpw for a player who has a release clause if Real Madrid wants to buy him.
    I am not so sure that they will miss Lewandowski as much as you think. The way Bayern plays, most of the damage is made on the wings. I suspect they will miss much more Coman and Gnabry.

  79. InsideRight

    As you don’t have a leg to stand on and cannot provide any evidence to back your earlier ludicrous assertion, do everyone a favour and grow the fuck up you pathetic lickspittle. Oh, and corrupting my posting name, how very witty of you. You must have pissed your pants at the sheer hilarity of it all. Nip upstairs and tell mummy all about it so she can feel proud of you.

  80. raptora

    If Odegaard will just safely recycle the ball and not take any risks maybe we need to change things a bit.

    There is the Liverpool way where the CMs are hard working demons without much to offer in goals and assists. They achieve their balance with their super offensive top class full backs and top class front line.

    In the last year or two they’ve switched things a bit and have Thiago play in a midfield 3 with Fabinho and one of Henderson/Keita. Still, not many goals or assists come from their midfield.

    Odegaard could be used in a similar way to Thiago and we’ll need to bring in an all action hero like Hendo or Keita.

    Then there’s the Man City way – Rodri behind KDB and Bernardo/Gundogan. Something that we also had with Fabregas’ Arsenal, and Cazorla’s Arsenal. With Fabregas it was something like Flamini/Song, Cesc and Hleb/Nasri and in Santi’s period (after the first year when he played AM) it was Coquelin/Flamini, Santi and Ozil with Ramsey filling in for whoever is missing.

    My point is that our balance is wrong right now.

    We either need to bring in another warrior in midfield then play Odegaard a midfield 3 like Pool with Thiago but our full backs + offensive players will have to be really, really good to score as many goals as we’d need.

    Or we need to have another creative player like Cesc had Hleb/Nasri and Santi had Ozil in our midfield three. This will allow Odegaard to share the creativity and need of goals with another player like it’s in City with KDB and one of Bernardo/Gunda.

    We saw that something ain’t working in our balance in offence. Ball is in Arteta/Edu to fix something that they clearly haven’t delivered in any of their seasons so far. Truth is, I’m struggling to see them ever fixing our offensive problems.

  81. Leedsgunner

    Benfica can’t afford to buy Leno outright for £8.5m. Fiorentina can’t afford to buy Torreira for €12.5m. Are clubs on the continent really that broke?

  82. Leedsgunner

    Fiorentina I have less sympathy with… didn’t they receive £60m plus for Vlahovic in January?

    Plus if the clubs on the continent are that desperate for money you would have thought they would ask for more reasonable sums for their stars… £60m plus for Kounde. £94m for Osimhen?

    I think they might be trying to exploit EPL clubs… because they know we are cash rich.

    It would be interesting to see what kind of prices they are quoting amongst themselves in the respective European leagues…and if they are disparities between what they quote each other and us I have little sympathy for the European clubs.

  83. Valentin

    Raptora,

    They won’t fix the issue, because Arteta starts on false premisses. Arteta wants to play a controlled way, so he needs players to be in their position. But playing offensively means taking risks and a less controlled way.

    Pep solved that conundrum by letting attacking players take risks (passes or dribbles) but asking them whenever they lose the ball to go full beast mode for 7 seconds to retrieve the ball and then retreat in defensive position. He also make use of tactical niggling fouls far away from their own half lessening the chance of a yellow card.

    Under Arteta, it is either:
    + underdog tactic where everybody defend for their life. The attack is limited to quick jabs when we retrieve the ball and then retreat to our defensive shell.

    + slow ponderous lateral attack where we start the attack in a very deliberate way that makes us very predictable. The slowness of the attack means that even when we lose the ball we are not in a bad position, but it also give opposition time to get back onto their defensive shape.

    + unplanned, off the cuff. A play develops between 2 to 3 players (usually the halers players) with one touch football, completely off the cuff. Such Moments are becoming far and few, because they used to involve ESR and Saka combining together and exchanging positions.

    + frenzy, unplanned. This is usually toward the end of game when we are desperate and try to win game. Then he does what Wenger used to do throw all the attackers and see wich one stick. It rarely worked under Arteta.

  84. CG

    Terraloon

    ”””250 enquiries, 100+ personal meetings with individuals and entities, 32 given access to full data, 12 bids , 4 shortlisted down to 3 Bohey and co new owners.””””

    It really is time for the supporters to put the squeeze on this useless and ambitious KSE regime.
    (Their ownership /custodianship has been a x 2 decade horror show.)

    The Chelsea sale shows – there are plenty of potential suitors to take club by the scruff of the neck and get it back to the pinnacle of English soccer- where it should be.

    Because its going absolute nowhere under Josh Kronk and his gang- despite their propaganda campaign.

    T .Boehy now of Chelsea is another one that plays to win and not faff about.

  85. Mr Serge

    Leeds gunner it’s called the pandemic almost every team is broke
    Hence we need to take advantage
    The issue is everyone is quoting 100m for players as they know a prem club will pay it

  86. Naija+soccer

    IAT

    Yeah going by your posted stats, we are faraway behind our so called rivals in big chances created. Funny enough those rivals all finished ahead of us in 1,2,3,4 positions. We are closest to Chelsea in big chances created and they are 35 big chances better than us.

    Kinda confirms what the eye-test witnessed all season, our attack needs to improve next season.

  87. Dissenter

    It turns out that past behaviors is the best predictor of future behaviors

    Every one knows we pay our players to go away so why shouldn’t they try to seek a bargain?

    Just this January, we were he’ll bent in rejuvenating Barca’s season, giving away Aubameyang for free. Just look at the Mavros situation if you’re seeking shock therapy.

    It’s no wonder Benfica [Leno], Betis [Bellerin], Florientina [Torriera]

    Honestly call Florientina’s bluff. Torriera was their best player for half the season. We have to draw the line in the sand
    It’s better to let Torriera leave for free in 2023 than to let them sucker us. Torriera is better than Lokonga- send Lokonga out on loan and let the Uruguayan help the team next season. That’s midfield depth coming back to us.

  88. Dissenter

    …or sell Torriera to any other Serie A club not called Florientina, even if it’s for less.

    We have to draw the line in the sand somewhere.

  89. WengerEagle

    ”It turns out that past behaviors is the best predictor of future behaviors”

    Which is precisely why it is frustrating to listen to fans blaming injuries to Partey and Tierney on our end of season collapse.

    How many mins did both of them play last season? I’ll give you a hint, it was less than this season. And we elected to spend £135m and not bring in a senior CM or reliable LB cover.

  90. The Real Vieira Lynn

    Valentin

    I agree in principle with what you’re saying, except that this is a personnel problem not a tactical one…MA’s perception of being more aggressive is allowing Xhaka to roam into more advanced positions, which provides very little going forward and likewise means that anytime we lose possession and the opposing team counters, we have the human pylon Xhaka trapped up the pitch…whereas if we brought in an actual DM, who can distribute the ball, like we could have had with Kante, then you have Marts, ESR, a new attacking CM and Saka, who in a bit deeper position would face considerably more 1 v. 1’s, as the 4, then add a top-notch Striker up top, we could really attack teams from all positions

    right now, we rely too heavily on the sideways master for both our offensive tactics and our defensive shape, yet he’s bang average in both capacities…now if he played in a League which allowed deeper-lying players of his ilk ample space and time, things could be vastly different, but that’s simply not the case…as such, I really think with two key acquisitions, a shift in tactical philosophies and our manager growing a pair, which would enable him to ship our Swiss miss and use Ode as more of a bench/cover option, I think we could compete for top 3

    btw Ode’s drowning man, arm swinging approach to pressing and his piss-poor defensive zone coverage, albeit he appears to be fully engaged in the process, provide very little in the grand scheme of things…I think he gets a pass due to the fact that he at least he shows some effort, which was always the beef with the last “luxury” player we deployed in our midfield

  91. The Real Vieira Lynn

    on a side note Valentin, really enjoyed your “phases” explanation of Arteta’ s tactically inept approach to football

  92. Venga, Dani

    Lewendowski to PSG or Chelsea maybe then. Probably not Juve after their outlay on Vlahovic. Maybe Inter? Interesting one. I would say Liverpool but he’s not really a pressing CF is he (especially at his age profile)?

  93. Venga, Dani

    The Real Vieira LynnMay 30, 2022 17:33:45
    there’s no doubt that we should have embedded Saliba last season and allocated the monies used to purchase White towards more pressing needs,
    ————————————————————

    I think this is the only Saliba argument that holds weight. That Arteta should have utilized the resources – both cash and player – better. I’m curious though where we would have bought if we didn’t go for white.

    CF? We couldn’t shift Auba or Laca so that’s a non starter. I think we would have gone for Tammy if we had been able to shift one of those.

    CM/CDM: This one holds more weight but again, we invested in Lokonga and we didn’t have Europe so it would have been difficult to keep everyone happy. Given, maybe we would have just paid Elneny to piss off.

    Winger? Couldn’t shift Nico away and I think we all love Gabi martinelli, ESR, Saka.

    Backup Fullback: maybe we could have bought better here.

  94. Killroy-TM

    Like everyone else lots of speculations and wishing and a hoping for the summer TW as it is the key yo CL football next season.

    Part and parcel of what a Technical Director does is transfer deals and for quite a while now, our selling hasn’t been great. Why can City ask for 55mill without blinking and we are being squeezed for deals with LT & Leno? Is it because of our Bumbling Brazilian buffoon with no European deal experience? On the other hand, Newcastle have swooped in to steal transfer guru Dan Ashworth from Brighton and appointed him as Sporting Director. Newcastle will definitely be a thorn in our side when it comes to signing players.

    It hurts to see the Sp*ds in Pot 2 of the CL drawing and they will also draw talent because of Conte. Marcotti says Perisic really wants to rejoin Conte and is accepting less money than he was offered elsewhere to join Sp*ds. How does our basque lightweight stack up with attracting talent, since he has difficulties spotting it? Don’t really give a shit about his age it is the fact why he chose the Sp*ds and not another club that offers more money.

  95. Valentin

    Lynn,

    Looks like we are on the same page regarding the diagnostics but differ on the origin of the problem.
    Is Arteta cautious because he wants to protect the team and Xhaka or is Xhaka too limited to execute Arteta’s plan?

    My take is that if Arteta really wanted to play more adventurous football, he would have ditched Xhaka. The fact that has not indicated that Xhaka is doing exactly what Arteta expects him to do. So the slow, ponderous, deliberate, predictable attack is exactly what he wants.

    Last summer I said that I wanted Saliba integrated in the first team and the money not spent on Ben White invested in a agile, physically dominant CM.

    Instead of Ødegaard, I would have kept Willock who could have rotated with ESR as CAM. Saving us again some money.

    I was also against Ramsdale because we could have bought better goalkeeper for less than half the price. Again with the money saved on Ramsdale and Ødegaard, we could have bought a proper dribbling left winger.

    We could have played a 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 with that personnel.

  96. Dissenter

    Kilroy
    Essentially, Edu’s job is to get Arteta what he wants.
    He’s not able to or is unable to do the long term work a good DoF should undertake because Arteta has equal powers to him.
    Arteta has become project Arsenal, the untouchable due to his access to the Kroenkes

  97. raptora

    I’m pretty sure that even Generational can see that our attack will need more than “sign player xxxx” and we’ll go from 55-60 goals to 80 goals.

    Maybe only Pedro and a couple of other posters are the only ones convinced that we’re one good striker away from fixing our attack.

    I agree that we’ll see an upturn with someone that knows where the net is unlike poor Laca, but it won’t be a dramatic improvement.

    What happened when we signed the rolls royce of a defender? We conceded 9 more goals than the season before.

    What happened when Chavs signed Lukaku? He scored 8 goals and was benched half the season.

    Chelsea:
    20/21 GF 58 GA 36 GD +22
    21/22 GF 76 GA 33 GD +43

    How did they achieve that when their marque signing failed? Their manager managed to spread the threat across his players. 13 of their players managed to score 3 goals or more. He changed the formation to one with wingbacks. He placed Havertz as their CF.

    Not like the season was a spectacular one for their standards, but will all the noise around the ownership, they managed to save it qualifying for UCL.

    Yes, the troubles with Lukaku might have been entirely on Tuchel, I’ve no idea. But the point is different. They couldn’t expect many goals from their CF so they found other sources of it.

    Tuchel borrowed Conte’s formation and they scored almost 80 goals. We’re struggling to score 60.

    No idea how to cover for Tavares’ deficiencies (doesn’t play him for months then doesn’t put extra protection on his flank, no idea how to exploit Pepe’s end product (not a single EPL start in 7 months), no rotation in AM (Odegaard with 26 straight starts), no CF experiments say Martinelli or Eddie (until the final month of the campaign) when his CF couldn’t score to save his life.

    Everything is set in stone. No flexibility. We’ve still scored a garbage amount of goals. We’ve still looked gigabad going forward. We’ve even conceded more even after we’ve spent a fortune on defensive players.

    Can’t say I’ve been mightily impressed with the job done behind the scenes. Managers find solutions, ours creates problems.

  98. TR7

    WE

    Really looking forward to Djoker- Rafa QF match, going to be an absolute cracker of a game.

    The way Rafa raised his game by at least two notches in 5th set against Felix who produced the most wonderful display of service game and forehand hitting in a long long time gives me hope that he at his best is still better than any other player especially on clay.

    Rafa looked down and out against Medvedev too in Aus Open final but again he raised his game when the stakes were high. What I want to say is Rafa’s game is still as good as that of Djoker and Alcaraz.

    The result will depend on small details – the game being played at night ( less top spin and less bounce) which favours Djoker , Rafa’s own fitness and energy level and whether Rafa will play defensively or he will attack Djoker. My understanding is if Rafa can play aggressively his game is good enough to beat Novak but he has this mental thing against Novak. All in all a fascinating game in the offing. Rafa may lose but nobody can write him off. He still can beat any player on his day.

    In case Rafa goes on to win this FO, it will be one of his greatest achievements given he will have beaten Felix, Novak, Alcaraz and possibly Medvedev on his way to become the Champion.

  99. Dissenter

    raptora
    ‘ Can’t say I’ve been mightily impressed with the job done behind the scenes. Managers find solutions, ours creates problems.’

    Summed it up perfectly
    Just add that his supporter are waiting to offer plaudits when he attempts to solve the problems he created. We used to complain the lack of balance of having either Auba or Laca…then Arteta came on board and nullified BOTH of them.

  100. Nigel Tufnel

    Incredible bias against our own players on this blog.

    People who are well paid and respected, like professional scouts rate Ben White.

    Southgate and Pearce among others like Ben White as a player.
    Leeds fans had lots of good things to say about him.

    But come to legrave and it’s money down the toilet and he’s a failure from almost everyone. They use generalized stats that no scout would use, to try and diminish the player.

    Professionals watch him play, and make their assessments. Legravers know it all though.

    I’ll keep backing Ben White and the team, the rest of you carry on kicking our own guys after a pretty good season.

  101. WengerEagle

    TR7

    Yeah think Djoko wins it in 4 but should be a great match.

    Medvedev was dreadful tonight, old man Cilic absolutely battered him in straight sets. He’s an elite HC player but do not think that his game carries over well so Clay or Grass and doubt that he ever wins a RG or Wimbledon even though I expect him to win at least 5+ HC Slams.

  102. Ishola70

    Regarding criticism of Ben White.

    Folks should look at Gabriel and tbf some have on here.

    I understand he scores some goals so it seems because of that his defensive lapses are overlooked.

    He needs more composure in his defending going forward. It’s all well and good being a physical defender but there should be composure with it.

    Van Dijk is a perfect example. Physically imposing but very composed to go along with it.

  103. WengerEagle

    White is prone to lapses too Ishola. At least with Gabriel he has the freak athleticism to get himself out of those tricky situations much of the time.

    White was supposed to be this transcendent ball-playing CB that would make a big difference to the tempo and our ball movement, I have yet to see much of an impact from him in that respect, we look just as uninspired through the middle in so many of our matches this season.

    I would call him good on the ball but far from exceptional which is what we were promised. Because he is certainly not an exceptional off-ball defender and if that is the case. what are you paying £50m for?

    Van Dijk may have cost £25m more but he is exponentially better than White on and off the ball as well as being a vastly superior athlete.

  104. Ishola70

    Weagle

    I’m not saying White is better or worse than Gabriel.

    What I’m saying is don’t ignore Gabriel either if we are going to look really closely at the defenders.

    Not all is rosy with Gabriel defensively. He needs as said before to show that composure when defending more times.

  105. raptora

    A 34 yo David Luiz was much more impressive with his vision and passes compared to White and that was supposedly why we paid the premium. I’ll stop right there.

  106. Ishola70

    I catch some of the tennis when it gets to the quarter final stages in only the grand slam tournaments so I only have a passing interest in it.

    Same with golf. Will take a look at the final round in any of the majors and the whole of any ryder cups that come along.

    But can’t stand rugby or fornula one either.

  107. Valentin

    None of our defenders are organizers. They are reactive players, who need somebody beside them to control them. It is more visible with Gabriel because he is more physical and more impulsive than Ben White.
    VVD has physicality, but also composure and organisation skills. That’s why he always make his defensive partners in defense look better than they are.
    More importantly Ben White is not very good in 1v1 defensive position in a back 4. In a back 3, he can go try to intercept, and provoke the opposition knowing that there is a spare man to cover. In a back 4, he has been passed by too often for my liking especially when you look at his cost. Arsenal look like Mug when their 50 millions CB is on his arse on the floor and the opposition scores.

  108. Dissenter

    Nigel
    Have you seen any of the £50 million transfer attributes in Ben White?
    If so, please tell us.

    This was a judgment call that has not paid off yet, same way Pepe is a good player who was never worth the £72 million we paid

    Regarding England, Tomori is better than White but didn’t get the early invites due to the Covid protocols for one coming from Italy.

  109. WengerEagle

    I agree Ishola.

    Gabriel is far from perfect and has his flaws. I just see more potential there myself. If Saliba wants to come back given the crap way he has been treated by Arteta and is better than Gabriel/White he goes straight in for me.

    They look similar athletes and I haven’t seen enough of William but I have heard that he is very composed and assured on the ball. It could be an interesting dynamic having Gabriel-Saliba as a pairing. Saliba can take on the ball-playing role and it would give us two supremely gifted CBs athletically.

    Matip is 6″5, Konate is 6″5 and VVD 6″4 and it seems to work beautifully for them even though it is more traditional to have one CB around the 5″11-6″2 mark alongside a more imposing partner.

  110. Ishola70

    The African Champions League final was a spectacle just for the atmosphere tonight.

    Yes it is not the best quality but as long as you see full effort from the players in that sort of atmosphere it is an event. The stands were teeming with people.

    Had a bet on this Parguayan game going on atm after catching the first half. Away team were winning 3-0 at HT and fancied them at AH -0.5 at 3.00 price. They are winning 4-0 in the second half so I hope the home team doesn’t score a late goal to spoil the bet.

  111. Dissenter

    We needed a veteran center back along with Saliba last summer. The duo would have cost us no more than £5-10million.
    Instead we had a Brazilian who can’t speak to referees without getting a yellow card and a £50 million transfer English man that Brighton didn’t bother to replace. Brighton’s defense wasn’t any worse and they finished stronger that in 2020-2021.

    Nigel
    It’s not Ben White the man who’s the target, it’s the concept of a player like BW when we have gaping holes everywhere else

  112. Dissenter

    Always wondered why we never tried to sigh Tchaikovsky on a free from Burnley

    It’s a rhetorical question by the way. We made the big decisions in defense last season that makes it harder to be flexible in subsequent seasons.

  113. Ishola70

    Dissenter

    “Tchaikovsky on a free from Burnley”

    lol the big composer.

    Had a litte run in with him years back in London. Fair to say I backed down somewhat.

    Big lad.

  114. WengerEagle

    Just saw that top 5 CB list from Rio Ferdinand on BT, lol he is such a colossal bellend putting himself at no.1 on the list.

    Don’t get me wrong, he’s a shoo-in for top 5 imo but the best? Nope.

    I think that VVD is probably the best CB to have ever played in the PL and John Terry the greatest and yes, the two are different.

  115. Dissenter

    Wenger Eagle
    It won’t matter whether Saliba is the organizer type or not.
    The organizer needs to be close to the manager, i.e, one that speaks for the manager.
    It doesn’t have to be.CB. Azpilicueta did it for Chelsea and even he was nullified when Lampard didn’t trust him.
    For Arsenal, the defensive organizer is Tierney, if you can get him on the field.