by .

So Liverpool’s season ended with 2 domestic cup wins. An incredible achievement. My first ever Cup Final experience was Arsenal vs Sheffield Wednesday when we won the cup double in 1993. Klopp and his team of heroes stand tall with the heroes of that era that set the standard we now see today.

It’s tough for Liverpool, they are getting bantered off the internet today, people have been keeping receipts, waiting for their moment to strike.

… and it’s been brutal.

Michael Owen was insistent that Liverpool were still the best team in Europe despite not being able to win a cup final in open player or score a goal in 5 hours worth of finals.

When it comes down to it, sport is won in the margins, you can be legendary or a fraud on the flip of a coin. Right now, everyone is poking holes at Klopp complaining about Madrid’s keeper being too good. All the psychoanalysts peddling ‘hugs, kisses, and planning’ being the difference in the FA Cup are struggling to work out how a 10-a-day manager accused of being too casual at Bayern and lacking tactical rigor could roll into Saint-Denis and shithouse a supposedly much better Liverpool side.

Liverpool go from QUADRUPLE LEGENDS to the team that blew the easy run to the Champions League final.

They go from indestructible heroes to looking like a group that might be about to look decline in the face.

The average age of their starting 11 is about 29. Injuries have been kind to them. It is going to be very difficult for them to replace with the quality they need.

Sadio Mane is already signaling he wants out. Mo Salah still hasn’t signed a deal. The best sporting director on the planet has quit, likely because he knows Klopp wants to control the rebuilt now he’s king.

The dip might not come next season, but I’ve no doubt the Arsenal team are looking at where our squad is now, hoping that when Liverpool drop, we are there to move on them.

What I did hate last night was the disgraceful treatment of English fans. The behaviour merchants are out in force, but there is simply far too much evidence from actual media people with cameras to put this one on the fans. The French police are brutal, they don’t even save it just for the English, they aren’t good to French away fans in general. But the idea that you can have a ticket, turn up to the ground on time, and be told to just fuck off, then get pepper-sprayed should be a scandal of the highest order. It was absolutely horrendous to hear that gangs were picking off fans after and stealing their phones and money. If that happened in England, it would be a global news story, but when it happens in France, it gets brushed under the carpet until the next big event when they do the same thing again.

Dortmund has signed 6 players already.

Why are they so good at getting players in the door early?

Drives me up the wall.

Arsenal needs to shift players this summer regardless of the clear bank of cash that has been made available.

  • Lucas Torreira
  • Nico Pepe
  • Bernd Leno
  • Bob Holding
  • Hector Bellerin
  • Reiss Nelson
  • Pablo Mari
  • Daniel Ballard
  • Alex Runarrson

I would have put Ainsley there, but for me, he should be offered the chance to be our right back again next season. He has the mobility, the power, the technique… he just lacks the right attitude sometimes. He also needs to be given the opportunity to be right back after he refused. Part of good leadership is to always give people a way back if they change.

Benfica is apparently in for Bernd Leno but they are swerving at the £8.5m fee we’re looking for. That is a keeper that cost us £25m, has been a German international and is definitely Premier League standard. Edu really needs to start shifting bodies for actual money this season. The Mavropanos fee was pitiful considering the talent as was agreeing to sell Guendouzi before we saw how good he’d be at Marseille.

Every penny counts, let’s not have a summer of giving away players for nothing.

Still, at least there’s a structure in place at Arsenal and our recruitment, in the main, is about 1000x better than it has been. Everything is mapped to a footballing philosophy and a profile.

United? They hired in Ralf Rangnick, who tanked on the coaching side, but the fear was he’d be allowed to rebuild them… and rebuilding clubs is what he’s good at. Well, he’s out the door. He came in, saw that it was a shitshow, said as much, and that’s that. He’d prefer to manage Austria. United, by far the most reactionary club in the world, has said goodbye.

Like, what are they thinking? I swear their biggest issue has been catering to the Twitter accounts with the little numbers and the Paul Pogba avatars. Who picks up the recruitment? Are they putting it on Ten Haag? Are they bringing Marc Overmars out of his scandalous cancellation? Or are they just going to expensively wing it again?

Whatever their plan is… it doesn’t seem like it’s in place as of now, so that is another challenge they’ll have to overcome.

Bigger issue for them is what they do with Cristiano and Fernandes who don’t really seem like ideal candidates to play the sort of football Ten Haag has been known for.

ANYWAY, why don’t you jump into some content below and sign up for Patreon because we are doing some EXCLUSIVE Patreon content tomorrow about transfers and things.

  • We’ll be bringing back Famous Shirt Numbers
  • We’ll be going deep on ins and outs
  • We’ll be doing a winners and losers
  • We’ll also be talking about our rivals

Should be cracker. Thank you to those that have signed up already. You are all amazingly generous. x

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Yes Dissenter I know you meant him.

He can be a mouthy northern twat after a few beers as I can testify to.


Just tripled my money on that Paraguayan bet.

Good stuff.


Gallas was actually a very underrated organizer and he was a brilliant defender. His fatal flaw though was that he was emotional and as mentally fragile as they come. He looked great at LB in those Chelsea sides because he has Terry to rein him in. Hand him the captain armband and stick him in CB next to the bull in a China shop Kolo Toure (bless him) who absolutely needed a calm and vocal presence next to him which he had in Sol and it was always going to end in tears even though individually both were top defenders… Read more »


I know the season just ended but can we sign some players already in fucking bored lol


Best defender I ve ever seen is Nemanja Vidic. Guy was just a thoroughbred defender. And I don’t even care if he was good on the ball or not. That guy was a defender.

Is he in Rio’s top 5 list ? For me he’s better than Rio.

Mr Serge

What about our very own captain marvel big Tony ?

Mr Serge

Are we talking premier league defenders here ?


I thought I was the only one who noticed how bad Ben White is in 1v1 situations. For me that’s a huge red flag. That you are a good passer or carrier of the ball is not enough excuse to justify you been a bad defender, if you are a defender.


The question Arsenal fans need to ask is would we have been worse off if we kept Saliba and spent 50 million on an area where is a real need.

For example could we have conceded fewer goals this season, if we had started Holding instead of Ben White ? The answer is yes for me.

Habesha Gooner

Van Dijk is a unicorn sort of defender. It isn’t even recency bias. He just can do everything. And not to an average level either. You could ask him to play any sort of system and he would fit in perfectly. You can’t beat him for pace, you can’t beat him in the air, you can’t dribble past him, he organizes, he leads and he has no weaknesses on the ball. He can literally play for Guardiola or Mourinho without breaking a sweat. I am not sure you can say that about any defender in the past. The fact that… Read more »

Habesha Gooner

Yeah Vidic would go through a wall for his team. But interms of class, Rio is better. And a lot of others too. I think if you are a supporter of the team that a player like Vidic plays for then you will remember him fondly. But other team fans will actually base it on merit most of the time. I wouldn’t take prime Vidic over Rio or Van Dijk. I will also take Sol over Vidic TBH.

Mr Serge

Soo was a monster of a defender

Mr Serge

Sol even, sol over Vidic for me


Wasn’t old enough to watch football in the 90s, been watching football since around 2001 so cannot include Big Tone in my list sadly.

My top PL 5 in no particular order is VVD, Terry, Ferdinand, Vidic and Kompany. Honourable mentions to Carvalho and Sol.


I actually might slide Sol in there ahead of Vidic, you lads have convinced me.


It is an interesting debate because normally midfielders and forwards get all of the love and that is reflected in who wins the Ballon D’or. There have been so many elite CBs of the past 10-15 years outside of the PL too in Ramos, Pepe, Pique, Chiellini, Godin, Lucio. Picking the best out of that lot is incredibly difficult but I may just have to opt for Chiellini. Lucio’s peak was higher and he could do more on the ball but Chiellini is just such a legend and up until even the Euros last year an incredible defender, organizer and… Read more »

The Real Vieira Lynn

the most bewildering component of the whole White debate is that for me, based on what I’ve personally witnessed, Saliba is the perfect ying to Gab’s yang…Gab wants to be a bit more adventurous and pursue more advanced positions on occasion and Saliba is a more stabilizing force, which is the exact kind of balance most manager’s desperately crave…it seemed like a no brainer, which is somewhat ironic…right now he’s paired with the rather squirrely White, who doesn’t seem to fully grasp the nuanced aspects of the position, maybe that’s because his role has changed somewhat in each of the… Read more »

The Real Vieira Lynn

Venga/Valentin for me last season’s summer window was more about quality then quantity…I have no qualm whatsoever with us purchasing a starting RB, I simply wished this business was completed substantially earlier, then moved Cedric and used AMN and Chambers for any coverage concerns…this might have likewise enabled us to promote someone from the academy on occasion, for evaluation purposes I likewise had no problem with getting a more youthful backup for Tierney, which we did, and then I would have embedded Saliba into the lineup and used those monies allocated for White towards far more pressing needs in the… Read more »


Jesus last bit of Tennis, just watched delayed play on Cilic vs Medvedev. Absolute steamrolled him, love it when a player goes so hot they just fire at will.

Cilic looked like Henry in Henry in 04, untouchable.

Habesha Gooner

I didn’t see Adams play either. So I don’t know. But from the defenders I have seen in the PL the list goes like this in descending order. Van Dijk, Rio, Terry, Kompany, Sol, Vidic, Cravalho Out of that list, Terry was the one I hated the most. Dude was a cunt of the highest order. But he could defend and he could lead. But I wanted to punch him in the face everytime we played the Chavs. If we go world wide their are a lot of others. But only from my time, I would say Maldini impressed me… Read more »


Top 5 defenders in premier league history for me.

5. Vidic
4. Adams
3. Sol
2. Rio
1. VVD

honorable mentions

Terry can fuck right off, Wayne Bridge did more damage with a single header.

Habesha Gooner

Oh I forgot Nesta too and so many others I presume.


Yeah as much as Chiellini is my pick out of the modern bunch, if you are going to rate top all-time Italian defenders he likely doesn’t even make it into the top 5. .

Baresi, Maldini, Cannavaro, Nesta, Costacurta,. How can one country produce so many all-time great defenders?

Italians are just horny for defending and clean sheets. Get more enjoyment out of a 1-0 than anything else.



I like Rio and yes he’s class. But I liked Vidic more. That was partly because at the time he was starring for United, we were suffering fools like Squillaci, Gallas, Senderos, Djourou.

How I craved a guy like Vidic in those days. Also that United defense had a coldness to it when Vidic was back there. Rio didn’t give me such a vibe.


Rio for me is just a little bit overrated, still was elite but VVD is a level above anything Rio ever was.


They were nowhere near the Champions League finals too until Vidic joined. For me Vidic was United’s most valuable player in that latter Ferguson era. Not Rooney or Rio, it was Vidic.

Habesha Gooner

Naija Oh the days of Squillaci, it was like Wenger forgot he needed a defense. How does a guy that signed Sol Campbell forget what a great defender looks like? I get it though. Vidic was everything that our defenders weren’t. He would go through everything to win a tackle. But part of the reason he succeeded was because of Rio. Ferdinand was just smart. He held Vidic’s hand. If not I don’t know if he would have succeeded as much. And Ferdinand was no soft defender either. He could hold his own as much as Vidic. He just didn’t… Read more »


If we are leaving the cozy confines of the Premier league that list will take a decided Italiano turn.

VVD is the prem goat, dude has it all. Watching him and Konate vs Madrid was mental. What a partnership, ironic it was their fabled full back that truly let them down.


Squillaci, Senderos, Cygan, Luzhny, Silvestre.

That is the real top 5. Djourou is excluded because of that one-time he made Drogba his gimp.

Habesha Gooner

Wenger eagle
Same for me. VVD is just a defender like I have never seen before. He is just quietly brilliant. And he is relaxed all the time like no one cam beat him. And they can’t. I wonder if Thierry Henry had faced him though, what might have happened.


Habesha TH14 would have abused this Liverpool team with TAA out of position with those mazy LW runs from deep. As great as VVD is, in his prime I believe there is not a defender to have existed that would have consistently got the better of Henry in 1 vs 1 situations. He made a world class CB like Puyol look like a pub defender at times in a CL Final and was the only opponent that John Terry said used to keep him up at night before the games and this is a guy that has faced the very… Read more »


Pre-VAR; The best English defender in the premier league era for is …John Terry

He would literally put is neck in line to head out a ground shot if need be
That said, Terry would have been found out with VAR. He had that cleaver way of making his body big to block out shots with his hands.

I wonder why Vincent Kompany didn’t get any mention

Habesha Gooner

Yeah. He would just go on to the left and do his thing. But I meant if Henry vs VVD was a one on one thing. I still feel Henry’s pace and power was too much for any defender. But VVD might have come close to stopping him.

That Bernabau goal still gives me goosebumps. TH14 just running through the Madrid defense like they aren’t there. Shrugging of the likes of Guti like they were a nobody.

The Real Vieira Lynn


honourable mentions—Sol and Ramos



VVD is one of a handful of defenders ever who could even have got close to Henry at his best. He would get double and triple-teamed and that is how he created so many goals too just from pulling defenders out of position.

Just the perfect blend of pace, power, invention, technique, composure and ruthlessness. Was like having three world class players rolled into one (ST, CAM, LF). Now that was a RR of a player! Not Ben White 😀

Habesha Gooner

Weagle Ben white isn’t there at all. He needs to try and emulate the likes of Stones at city, which is a hard task by itself. RR of players are rare. Even city with their years of success have only had one Kompany. It’s not my Arsenal Bias but I have only seen one player that is better than Henry of all the strikers. And that is R9. Other than that I haven’t seen any striker that is better. Henry could create, could dribble, could run the channels, his technique was on point..he was just ridiculous. Seeing what Mbappe is… Read more »

Nigel Tufnel

Dissenter I noticed that nobody here that has responded to my White comment had anything to say about professionals views on the player. It’s a bunch of football manager/YouTube geniuses on legrove who think their football insights are so special. I have observations, but I’d put pro scouts, the National team braintrust ahead of anybody here, or the lazy pundits on tv and radio. They are just paid to say something, anything. Grovers just want to say something for validation and it’s usually negative about our club. The people I referenced are deciding for their job security. But friendless Vieira… Read more »


Nigel, you are missing the point that most of us have made here. Is Arsenal better off with White, YES, but was he a priority in the last summer TW NO! We had Saliba coming back from a loan, we needed desperately attacking talent, everyone here has been screaming for that. But Pep’s Gimp knew better and splurged 50 mill on a CB because he can’t set up an attacking force just like he can’t win a piss up in a brewery. We would have had CL if Bumteta had set up a decent attack in the summer TW, but… Read more »


What else do you want gooners to talk about in the summer after we lost out of 4th place despite being four points ahead with 270 minutes of regular time in the season.
No one here is a professional scout, football administrator or or manager
I have news for. Pedro is a marketing executive who lives in New York. Not even he is an insider.
It’s just opinions at the end of the day.
Lighten up and don’t carry the aggros of one day into the other.



Henry would be making 850k a week if he played in this era. He would win Ballon dor every year too.


Yea Nigel

It’s the first week after the end of the season so it’s understandable that people are a bit disappointed and wanna let off steam. We came 5th which is cool but we had 4th in our hands with 4 games to go.

Naturally people will vent and look for a scapegoat.

The Real Vieira Lynn

Nigel I’ll be your huckleberry you half-wit spewer of nonsense…firstly, White was the 3rd best defender on Brighton, yet somehow we deemed him worthy of a substantial fee and wage increase, simply because he fit both the homegrown and age profile…let’s remember he was a national team afterthought until an injury to TAA put him in the proverbial mix, likely due to the fact that he alone had ample experience playing in a wider right side position secondly, for all the talk about his ability to unlock opposing defenses with his stretch passing abilities, from deeper-lying positions, I can’t remember… Read more »

Dark Hei

Killroy I will try to pick Arteta’s brain for this one, so I will try to explain the rationale. I think there is one, but whether it is valid is up to conjecture. The transfer team and Arteta likely picked White predominantly for the role. Basically they have a role in mind and they feel that White is the most suited to play that role. I am picking my words carefully as role has different nuance from position. Likely they feel that Saliba, talented as he is, does not have the experience to yet fulfill that particular role. And the… Read more »


Dark Hei I take your point and it is most likely valid but it also highlights what has been a complaint here that Arteta wants to play in a certain style but either doesn’t have the talent for that or more likely doesn’t know how to get these skills out of the players he has or enhance the skills of his players or even drastically move players to different positions. This comes only with years of experience as a manager when you have tried various methods on different players. Arteta doesn’t have that yet and may never obtain it. Arsenal… Read more »


Henry > Mbappe easily

But mbappe has done better age for age. As a kid Henry had not blown the world away. Wasn’t until he came to arsenal that he kicked on and reached those silly high levels

Mbappe is fabulous and highly effective but as good as Henry? Absolutely not.


I wouldn’t read all that much into the opinions of professionals including scouts as though they are usually right Arsenal scouts for example have scouted how many flops vs how many gems over the years? For every cesc there will have been a denilson, a Fran Merida, an amauri bischoff Those professionals who are paid to have an opinion watch more football than the rest of us but they still get a huge amount wrong. Likewise you could say the average le Grover shouldn’t moan when a decision looks bad. The ref and var officials have 20 years of training… Read more »


Titus bramble


People forget that Henry wasn’t just an elite striker he also used to top the assist charts.

Funnier still that he barely ever headed the ball and still managed to be that effective without needing to


Unless we’re buying another CB then I don’t see why Holding has been added to that disposal list. You need 4 CBs in a squad. If we’re selling Ballard (which imo is a shame) then we need a 4th player and that for me is Holding who showed last season he can do a decent job.


I have been trying to get my head around the £2.5 billion +£1.75 billion that Bohey has paid out / will pay out and came across this

“What they’re hoping is that someone is going to shell out for a virtual reality headset and that they’ll be willing to pay extra to have the matchday experience of effectively sitting in a seat at Stamford Bridge. They are convinced there are lots of people out there willing to do that, and the technology is almost there. “


I remember watching Kompany play for City at the Emirates when he was at his best. With that muscular physique and speed he looked like he had come out of a super hero comic. Fantastic player that our CBs could only dream of matching, but Saliba perhaps could come close


“Oh the days of Squillaci, it was like Wenger forgot he needed a defense. ”

And yet in 20 out of his 22 seasons at the club we conceded fewer goals than last season., whilst of course scoring more in all 22 seasons..

Doesn’t make sense does it , as we were forever told that Wenger was tactically inept and now we are being told that Arteta is a great defensive coach..

How can a “tactically inept” manager who spent pennies on his defence outperform a defensive manager who has spent over a 100 mil on his defence.


“ Doesn’t make sense does it , as we were forever told that Wenger was tactically inept and now we are being told that Arteta is a great defensive coach..How can a “tactically inept” manager who spent pennies on his defence outperform a defensive manager who has spent over a 100 mil on his defence.‘ That’s an excellent comeback from Pierre to those willing to tolerate Arteta’s elite mediocrity in exchange for a project while quick to trash a truly great manager. In every one of his seasons with Arsenal, Wenger was better than Arteta. His problems is that he… Read more »

Danny S

So you can’t compete with a young squad, and now you apparently can’t compete with an ‘ageing’ squad. Literally citing 2 CB’s as aging at 30! 😂

And we have to move on tottenham before we set our sites on Liverpool!

They have beaten us without breaking a sweat for the last god knows how long. Watching Klopp and Arteta is like watching a baby cub fight with a lion, the lion just lays there while the cub is all over him then just pins it down with a paw.



“Arteta wants to play a certain style”
Can someone please explain to me what that style is because I really don’t have a clue?
Sometimes you get the impression the players haven’t got a clue either.


WengerEagle – “Squillaci, Senderos, Cygan, Luzhny, Silvestre. That is the real top 5. Djourou is excluded because of that one-time he made Drogba his gimp.”

You absolutely have to put Holding in that group for the way he stuffed Diego Costa into his back pocket in the 2017 Cup Final. It’s a shame Holding didn’t play the same way against Son. Maybe Sadio Mane’s House of Flying Elbows has had too much influence on him…


Ask yourself this question.
How can someone like Graham Potter go into a club with inferior players and yet in a very short period of time get them to play a “style” of football that is not only far superior to Arsenal but also ranks in the top few teams in the PL.
Is this because Potter has a clear process in his head or is it because he is a far better coach?
Take your pick.


One other thing, based on constructive and destructive actions.
Please try and list those actions that Arteta has taken since he arrived at Arsenal that have proven to be detrimental to our progression and those actions that have been beneficial.
Go on, try it!
Some of you may be surprised.


Nigel Tufnel – “Dissenter I noticed that nobody here that has responded to my White comment had anything to say about professionals views on the player. It’s a bunch of football manager/YouTube geniuses on legrove who think their football insights are so special.”

Like the professionals who brought us Stepanovs, Park, Gervinho, Perez, Santos? Those kind of professionals? Martin Keown said White wasn’t the right signing for us. Tim Sherwood said Dunk would have been better. They are professionals who know the game and know what makes a good defender. Are they wrong too?


“A good midfield to control tempo and forwards that keep opposing team cautious of attacking. Simple. Building from the back is overrated.”

Obviously you think Wenger was a tactical genius that only the fan with a football brain would recognise..

The rest make the mistake of believing all they hear from the supposed experts in the media.


WengerEagle – “Squillaci, Senderos, Cygan, Luzhny, Silvestre. That is the real top 5. Djourou is excluded because of that one-time he made Drogba his gimp.” Not Wenger’s finest signings were they, but i don’t suppose the lot of them cost more than 10/15 mil. Maybe Sid is right , have bettet quality midfielders to control the tempo of the game to take the pressure off the defence. His big mistake was buying Xhaka and thinking he is an enforcer , whereas in reality he’s just a prick who picks fights at the wrong time , showing his lack of football… Read more »


Pierre “His big mistake was buying Xhaka and thinking he is an enforcer , whereas in reality he’s just a prick who picks fights at the wrong time , showing his lack of football intelligence.” You got that right. His signing has set the club back years. That the club has been in thrall to this man for so many seasons to the stage now where he is seen as one of the senior “leaders” of this side is an embarrassment. Liverpool would laugh Xhaka out of the door. You can’t press properly? No good. You have the brain of… Read more »


Xhaka was not a Wenger signing. He was a Gazidis/Raul signing. Gazidis had decided that we needed an experienced midfielder because Mikel Arteta, Tomas Rosicky and Matthieu Flamini were all leaving in the summer 2016.

Xhaka had been voted in the Bundesliga team of the year, so at the time did not look like a bad move. None of Raul signing have been a success: Xhaka, Lichsteiner, Sokratis, Pepe, …


‘ His [ Xhaka] signing has set the club back years’

From 2016-W018 of Xhaka’s. Arsenal stay is on Wenger, the last 5 seasons has not been on him.
Lots of players have been moved on since 2018, so why has the club kept Xhaka?

Can’t blame Wenger for everything, in 2022.

Habesha Gooner

What are you talking about? How is Xhaka Raul’s signing if he came in three years before Raul joined?

Wenger wanted Xhaka. He even did an early deal like he has never done before. No one can blame Wenger for Xhaka staying all these years but he definitely signed him a 100%.


Doesn’t really matter who signed Xhaka. The fact is he’s no Xabi Alonso. That’s how they sold him to us in 2016, talking about how he’s a Xabi Alonso regen, at a time when the Spanish player was arguably the best or one of the very best CM in the game. Fast forward 6 years later and I don’t think he’s been mentioned in the same breath to Xabi since he joined us. We ‘ve missed Champions league every season since he joined. Cost us major points every season with his red cards and his lack of pace. The midfield… Read more »


Seen too many decent CMs in the last 6 years alone to continue with this failed experiment. I can even go as far as saying Xhaka is what got Wenger fired.

If Wenger had Cazorla available instead if having to rely on Xhaka, he would have made Champions league. Who knows might still be in the job.

Wenger was starting to adjust his style to the modern pressing game too, but hard to do that when your best and most available midfielder is a slow, ponderous, house key keeping Granite.