LIVERPOOL MATCH THE ARSENAL CUP LEGENDS OF 1992-93 SEASON

by .

So Liverpool’s season ended with 2 domestic cup wins. An incredible achievement. My first ever Cup Final experience was Arsenal vs Sheffield Wednesday when we won the cup double in 1993. Klopp and his team of heroes stand tall with the heroes of that era that set the standard we now see today.

It’s tough for Liverpool, they are getting bantered off the internet today, people have been keeping receipts, waiting for their moment to strike.

… and it’s been brutal.

Michael Owen was insistent that Liverpool were still the best team in Europe despite not being able to win a cup final in open player or score a goal in 5 hours worth of finals.

When it comes down to it, sport is won in the margins, you can be legendary or a fraud on the flip of a coin. Right now, everyone is poking holes at Klopp complaining about Madrid’s keeper being too good. All the psychoanalysts peddling ‘hugs, kisses, and planning’ being the difference in the FA Cup are struggling to work out how a 10-a-day manager accused of being too casual at Bayern and lacking tactical rigor could roll into Saint-Denis and shithouse a supposedly much better Liverpool side.

Liverpool go from QUADRUPLE LEGENDS to the team that blew the easy run to the Champions League final.

They go from indestructible heroes to looking like a group that might be about to look decline in the face.

The average age of their starting 11 is about 29. Injuries have been kind to them. It is going to be very difficult for them to replace with the quality they need.

Sadio Mane is already signaling he wants out. Mo Salah still hasn’t signed a deal. The best sporting director on the planet has quit, likely because he knows Klopp wants to control the rebuilt now he’s king.

The dip might not come next season, but I’ve no doubt the Arsenal team are looking at where our squad is now, hoping that when Liverpool drop, we are there to move on them.

What I did hate last night was the disgraceful treatment of English fans. The behaviour merchants are out in force, but there is simply far too much evidence from actual media people with cameras to put this one on the fans. The French police are brutal, they don’t even save it just for the English, they aren’t good to French away fans in general. But the idea that you can have a ticket, turn up to the ground on time, and be told to just fuck off, then get pepper-sprayed should be a scandal of the highest order. It was absolutely horrendous to hear that gangs were picking off fans after and stealing their phones and money. If that happened in England, it would be a global news story, but when it happens in France, it gets brushed under the carpet until the next big event when they do the same thing again.

Dortmund has signed 6 players already.

Why are they so good at getting players in the door early?

Drives me up the wall.

Arsenal needs to shift players this summer regardless of the clear bank of cash that has been made available.

  • Lucas Torreira
  • Nico Pepe
  • Bernd Leno
  • Bob Holding
  • Hector Bellerin
  • Reiss Nelson
  • Pablo Mari
  • Daniel Ballard
  • Alex Runarrson

I would have put Ainsley there, but for me, he should be offered the chance to be our right back again next season. He has the mobility, the power, the technique… he just lacks the right attitude sometimes. He also needs to be given the opportunity to be right back after he refused. Part of good leadership is to always give people a way back if they change.

Benfica is apparently in for Bernd Leno but they are swerving at the £8.5m fee we’re looking for. That is a keeper that cost us £25m, has been a German international and is definitely Premier League standard. Edu really needs to start shifting bodies for actual money this season. The Mavropanos fee was pitiful considering the talent as was agreeing to sell Guendouzi before we saw how good he’d be at Marseille.

Every penny counts, let’s not have a summer of giving away players for nothing.

Still, at least there’s a structure in place at Arsenal and our recruitment, in the main, is about 1000x better than it has been. Everything is mapped to a footballing philosophy and a profile.

United? They hired in Ralf Rangnick, who tanked on the coaching side, but the fear was he’d be allowed to rebuild them… and rebuilding clubs is what he’s good at. Well, he’s out the door. He came in, saw that it was a shitshow, said as much, and that’s that. He’d prefer to manage Austria. United, by far the most reactionary club in the world, has said goodbye.

Like, what are they thinking? I swear their biggest issue has been catering to the Twitter accounts with the little numbers and the Paul Pogba avatars. Who picks up the recruitment? Are they putting it on Ten Haag? Are they bringing Marc Overmars out of his scandalous cancellation? Or are they just going to expensively wing it again?

Whatever their plan is… it doesn’t seem like it’s in place as of now, so that is another challenge they’ll have to overcome.

Bigger issue for them is what they do with Cristiano and Fernandes who don’t really seem like ideal candidates to play the sort of football Ten Haag has been known for.

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369 Responses to “LIVERPOOL MATCH THE ARSENAL CUP LEGENDS OF 1992-93 SEASON”

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  1. Bankz

    Lol @ “when Liverpool drops, we’re there to move on them”.
    Pedro, we’re too unambitious and lack a good manager to move on anyone.
    We’ve comfortably become a Europa/midtable team and that status quo isn’t changing anytime soon.
    In 2024, we’d have gone 20 whole years without a shot at the premier league.

    For us to be great again, the entire structure of the club has to be torn down and definitely not getting led by a rookie manager in Arteta.

    Take a look at city(not making comparison), the structure they’ve put in place from players ethics to signing players with a particular skill set and style of play to managers, shows they’d comfortably rule the premier league for the next decade irrespective of if pep is there or not.
    Liverpool have almost the same model, the players they sign and how they adapt to Klopp’s style of play is one indicator. I’m sure they’d rebuild just fine but would they get a squad as good as what they have now could be put into a debate.
    One thing is, as long as their manager remains, they’d always be that top 2 or top 3 team to beat every season.

  2. Freddie Ljungberg

    Why are we getting rid of Holding just to buy in another 4th choice CB? Seems like a waste of time and resources if we don’t get a massive fee for him. Sure if he was going to be 3rd choice again I’d be worried but if Saliba comes in and actually gets a fair shake that’s likely to be Whites position by the end of the season if not earlier.

    AMN is trash, feed him to the dogs already ffs. People still acting like he’s some talented youngster just waiting to break out, he’s 25 in August and has had maybe a handful of decent perfomances ever, sprinkled into a fuckton of terrible ones. Move on.

  3. DivineSherlock

    I honestly think Liverpool are terribly unlucky , just like many of the tennis players when they had to play Nadal on clay , they had to face City in league. City with Pep in the league are the definition of world class consistency . They are adding Haaland now , on paper a very terrifying prospect and I dont think anyone can catch them next season .

  4. Nigel Tufnel

    Good job Pedro answering the over mentioned big chance created stat that is overplayed here by people who want to diminish Øde.

    Instead of relying on stats, they should try observing the actual matches to appreciate some of our guys.

    Ødegaard deserves 2 more forwards to work with.

  5. Mark S

    Jon Moss’s last match in charge as a referee, and naturally there’s controversy. Glad some things never change.

    Pedro has long blasted the standard of officiating in the Prem…and rightfully so…but next season will bring one without Mike Dean, Jon Moss, and Martin Atkinson. Interested to see who gets promoted to the big time. Before Oliver and Taylor there was Webb and Clattenburg…maybe next year’s crop will bring a good one.

  6. andy1886

    Nigel, the official PL stats for big chances created show that the top six are:

    1. Kane
    2. TAA
    3. Salah
    4. KDB
    5. Fernandes
    =6. Foden
    =6 Maddison
    =6 Moura
    =9 Raphina
    =9 Mount
    =9 Son
    =9 Fornals
    =9 Toney

    Now tell me that this doesn’t pass the eye test? Pretty much who you’d expect to see with regards to chance creation.

    The reason we create ‘chances’ and have a high number of shots are all those row Z efforts from the likes of Partey, Tavares, Cedric and others. Sure we shoot a lot, but often from distance and well off target. Hardly the same as a ball across the six yard box for a tap in,

  7. Ishola70

    Well Liverpool aren’t the best team in europe.

    Man City are the best purist “footballing” side in europe.

    Seems a bit harsh to imply that Real Madrid shithoused their win last night. In truth Liverpool weren’t that good on the night despite some good saves from Courtois and one absolutely world class save from him.

    This obssession with age in a squad is getting absolutely crazy. All people should care about is that your club does it’s utmost at their disposal to obtain the best available players and that those players will be coached and managed to success. This mania with the youth of a player is off. A young player may not develop as expected or have a setback. An older player may have a second wind and progress unexpectedly from an already good level for a few years. It’s not black and white at all.

  8. Andy

    last night was tough on liverpool but big impression i got from the game was their midfield is in dire need of a refresh. as the game wore on, they were increasingly outthought and outfought by modric, kroos and casemiro (combined age 98) and looked completely spent heading into the late stages of the game.

    madrid showed the rest of us the way to deal with their relentless pressing and constant tactical fouling – move the ball quickly and stand up to them phsyically (hats off to another great european reffing performance putting english refs to shame btw). if i was a pool fan, i’d be quite worried watching how they have faded at the business end of the season with an aging squad – not sure where the money is going to come from for a rebuild as they have kept their big stars beyond their prime and let them run their contracts down to final year. hope for us in seasons ahead!

  9. Ishola70

    lol here it is again.

    Liverpool ageing means Arsenal will catch up.

    Come on it’s about how good Arteta is and how good the club is in it’s recruitment not age of players.

    Same goes for Liverpool in the future but we all know how good Klopp is anyway.

  10. Andy

    @Ishola70 i think age matters when you play a relentless pressing game like klopp or poch like to. poch burned his players out over 3 seasons. klopp is doing the same. if you want to play that style of football you need to keep refreshing the squad with younger willing runners. frankly, i don’t think it’s a sustainable style of football and glad that is not the kind of game arteta seems to want to play. you have to hand it to madrid and ancelotti – a team full of aging warriors who use their heads to conserve energy and only turn it on when they really need to. pragmatic football at it’s finest. congrats to them all.

  11. Andy

    @ishola70 – arsenal’s “youth policy” under arteta is more about trying to find value and develop talent than the style of football. we don’t have any other option in the absence of unlimited funds or a massive sale like liverpool had with coutinho. having said that, i would not be averse to seeing us bring in 2 or 3 quality experienced pros to supplement the very youthful squad we now have. it’s called “a process” for a reason you know.

  12. Ishola70

    Andy

    Liverpool have just been involved in a quadruple effort until the last takes of the season.

    I don’t think they are in dire straits as you imply. Yes they fell at the final hurdle and I didn’t think they played that well last night but to get to that scenario in the first place suggests they still have petrol in the tank.

    And as said before it’s about Liverpool’s recruitment in the future but that’s the same for all clubs including Arsenal.

    The advantages that Liverpool still have over Arsenal are obvious. They still have Klopp a world class proven manager and they will still be a bigger draw for top players to join them.

  13. The Real Vieira Lynn

    Andy

    thank you for shedding some much-needed light on the “big chances created” narrative that has been purposefully manipulated by those with an obvious agenda…the very fact that some lesser lights on here have actually tried to use the “eye test” to flatter our clearly negative and naïve tactics, speaks volumes about just how far into the Arteta “rabbit hole” these individuals have descended…simply put, so long as Xhaka and Ode wear the kit and start regularly we will never adopt a 4-3-3, unless we won’t to get overrun by our opponents, which means more of the same until we purchase the kind of top-notch players who will ultimately force Arteta out of his protective shell approach to footballing

  14. Andy

    @ishola70

    i didn’t say they were in dire straits – just that klopp has a job of work to do to sustain the kind of success they have had in recent years and they are limited financially so it will be interesting to see if he has the energy and drive for a rebuild over coming seasons.

    yes, they over-extended themselves fighting on four fronts but the fact they played 330+ minutes of cup final football without managing to score a single goal at the business end of the season is very telling for me. teams are figuring out how to disrupt their system – klopp won’t last forever at liverpool – he ran out of steam at dortmund in same way poch did at spurs. gegenpressing is a very difficult system to implement consistently over long periods of time.

  15. Jonko

    The most sustainable type of game that can be kept at the top level for 2 decades or so was created by Ferguson. Quick one touch passing near opponents box. Good mux of crossing and passing and no unnecessary pressing. And of course weeding out players that were soft.

  16. andy1886

    Nigel, Pedro claims that ‘big chances created’ is nonsense, my point being that the names at the top of the list clearly show that it IS reflective of who the biggest chance creators are. I mean, are we going to write to the PL and tell them that they don’t know WTF they are talking about?

    I mean, it’s hardly revolutionary to suggest that some chances are good chances and some are not even half chances. Sadly I think (and this is from what I saw watching games this season) that our lack of goals is a combination of poor finishing AND a lack of creativity, not just the former.

  17. Graham62

    Yes, Liverpool lost.
    Courtois was outstanding.
    Thiago was not fit and probably shouldn’t have played.
    It was written in the stars that RM would win.
    If RM played in such a high intensity domestic league, they would not have been anywhere near reaching a CL final and would not have won so many CL’s in recent years.
    If Ancelotti had been made Arsenal manager after Emery left, we would have been in a far better place. Oh yeah, he wanted Arsenal, not Everton.

  18. Naija+soccer

    Pedro

    I thought it was weird that despite us having the 4th highest XG and shots at goal, we ve only created the 17th lowest big chances. I m not sure where that stat came from but it doesn’t particularly correlate with the idea that only City, Pool and Chelsea have attacked the opposition’s goal than us this season.

    Shouldn’t our big chances be like 6th or higher ? The stats doesn’t match lol.

  19. The Real Vieira Lynn

    Andy

    I do agree with your sentiments regarding how it will be difficult for Klopp to duplicate the last 3 years over the next 3 or 4, but I think that’s the nature of the beast nowadays, due to a variety of footballing and non-footballing reasons…that said, I wouldn’t put it past this particular manager, as he’s on the modern day Mount Rushmore, maybe even all-time, if he continues down this present course…all I wish is that we tried to marry our supposed aspirations with a healthy dose of realism, as even if we thought we were going to reinvent our organizational wheel, by adopting a more youth-oriented narrative, it would have made infinitely more sense to get a manager who’s already proved his worth in this very capacity….whether that was a younger manager like ten Hag or Nagelsmann or an older manager like Gasperini, instead of employing a complete and utter novice to take on such an extraordinary task

  20. Andy

    @The Real Vieira Lynn

    sure. bringing Arteta in to oversee this is a risk given his complete lack of head coaching experience. but the reality seems to be he is the one with the big vision for where the club can go in coming years – would any of the coaches you mention have brought that to the club?

    the backoffice/board have been sorely lacking for many years now but Arteta, as well as doing a very difficult but increasingly effective job at gutting and rebuilding a very broken first team squad, seems to be key in driving this modernisation and culture-change at all levels of the club. by all accounts he has long been a serious student of the game and imho has the potential to be one of the top coaches in europe in years ahead. he also seems to work very well with edu and the rest of the backoffice and anyone who has worked with him in the past has nothing but the fullest praise for him.

    tbh i’m finding it hard to understand where the constant negativity around him comes from – it always seems to be the same people so i think that says a lot. if you refuse to see the reality of what is in front of your eyes and how literally everything about the club and first team has improved since he came in then i can only conclude you are some kind of crank that just wants to criticise and never to applaud success, especially when that success proves you wrong in your assumptions.

    having said all that, i am not going to pretend he is perfect – he has made lots of mistakes too and, to date, seems a little too strict/controlling in his approach to tactics and player behaviour. but sometimes, and particularly for a club in such a mess as he found it, that is exactly what is required – a singular vision with no compromise on standards and behaviour. i’m happy to take that over the remorseless drift we experienced in the latter years of wenger and the poorly managed and shortlived emery reign.

    next season qualification for champs league is the goal. season after that maybe a serious run at a title challenge that at least lasts until the final stages of the season. from where i am standing and with this coach and this group of players continuing to grow and develop together that seems eminently possible.

  21. Robert Pires

    As long as they keep doing what they’re doing Liverpool will be fine for some time yet, as much as I hate it.
    Salah, Mane both improved under Klopp. Diaz has been good, Firmino as a false 9 w as great for a long time. Jota has been a success.
    Depends on their technical director, though. Klopp wanted Oxlade, for example LOL. And wanted Julian Weigl and was then given Salah instead etc etc. He’s not that good at recognizing talent, but he sure can improve them.
    But yeah, gegenpressing is tough long-term, and with a similar squad they will burn out like Poch’s did.

    But with Haaland the Beast at City now, they will sadly be unreachable to us even if Pep packs up.

  22. Ishola70

    Andy

    What happens if Arteta doesn’t get top four next season let alone a challenge for the title the following season?

  23. TR7

    Rafael Nadal is the greatest warrior in sports. Unbelievable how he finds another gear in him when confronted with difficult challenges. Produced a masterclass in the 5th set against FAA to fix up a meeting with Novak in QF. Alcaraz in the same draw too. Going to be an amazing French Open this one.

  24. Thorough

    FROM LAST POST
    Anyone who prefers Odegard to Fernandes is being disingenuous. I can count 4 playmakers in non top-4 teams that can give us better. And it’s a lie that we underate out players, Cazorla came in and won us all over in a matter of weeks. We’ve watched Odegard for 18 months and nobody knows what he’s really spectacular at.

    Even Ancelloti is giving Ceballos minutes even though we all derided him. He never even bothered to waste time on Odegard. That must mean something,

  25. Habesha Gooner

    AMN is done at this club. Let him go out and play. And get in a decent fee for him. I would keep Brooke Norton Cuffy behind Cedric and see what he is all about. Fullbacks typically break in to the first team early from the last few years that we have seen.

    Holding needs to be kept this summer. We have a lot to do to be changing a 4th choice CB. May be next summer but not now. We have to get at least LB, CM, ST, GK (Turner is done apparently), RW/LW as necessities. That is 5 players in. Even after that I would argue we would need a RB and another CM before trying to get an upgrade on the 4th choice CB. Arteta’s obsessions with CBs will be too much if we try to do that this summer. It would be like him thinking he would fix the attack by the CBs. Priorities matter.

  26. Andy

    @Ishola70

    > What happens if Arteta doesn’t get top four next season let alone a challenge for the title the following season?

    if he fails at top four next season then he will have missed his objective so will have questions to answer. but it depends on how it plays out whether that means him getting the boot or not. i would imagine top four next season will be more difficult than this, which is why our inability to close it out this season when we were in the driving seat with a few games to go is so frustrating. we will have to deal with saka and possibly others wanting to leave to guarantee champions league etc.

    so yes, jury is still out, as it should be for any coach of a team with aspirations to compete for the big trophies. but, for now, i have faith based on all the evidence i have seen that arteta will continue to drag this team and this club forward in coming seasons and am fully behind “the project”. sitting on the sidelines and constantly sniping despite progress being obvious doesn’t help anyone, does it?

    even if he does fail and ends up getting the boot he will have left behind a better culture, a more focused and professional backoffice, an improved youth setup and a first team with far more potential than the one he found when he arrived.

  27. Nigel Tufnel

    Andy1886,
    I forgot to say that the list you gave of big chance creators is interesting.

    If we think our lack of numbers in that stat is important, then we have to admit that not just Øde, but Saka and Martinelli and the fullbacks have to share quite a bit of blame.

    I think all of those guys underperforming says even more about the knock on effect of having 2 aging strikers who fell off a cliff the past 2 seasons. This has probably put pressure on our youngsters to try and do too much on their own.

    My hope (rose coloured glasses) is that the addition of a well functioning striker who might inspire confidence, and also a more productive #8 will cause a lot to click in this coming season. There is a lot of room for improvement.

  28. Habesha Gooner

    If he doesn’t get top 4 next season then he needs to go. After three and a half years, top 4 is a realistic expectation. That is the bare minimum for him to stay on. He needs to get Champions League football at all costs. Either that or we need to find a new manager who can.

  29. Venga, Dani

    AMN couldnt break into the Roma team – there’s no way he’s good enough for us even as a backup. Think Mikel blew it turning down the 25 million Wolves offered a few years back. He has declined immensely.

  30. Andy

    @Habesha Gooner

    he could finish 5th or 6th and win the europa league to qualify for CL. would that be enough for you? hard objectives without any context or nuance before the summer transfer merry-go-round has even started tells me you are just willing him to fail. maybe you can explain why you dislike him so much and who would be a better option in our circumstances? i’m pretty sure all your answers will be wrong.

  31. UTarse

    If he misses out on top 4 next season, then he should be history ffs…. Not just “have questions to answer”

    How low will the arteta fan club lower the bar to keep their god as manager?

  32. The Real Vieira Lynn

    Andy

    I would strongly suspect that players under contract and those within the managerial and administrative offices at clubs like Ajax and Atalanta would have spoken with nothing but the utmost admiration about their former and current manager, some of which would be honestly held views, while others not so much so, due to the fear that should they deviate from the company line they would be summarily relieved of their respective duties

    regardless, choosing someone with experience at the very thing you’re aspiring to achieve has got to give you a decided edge over bringing someone in who hasn’t the faintest notion of what the job truly entails

    just imagine how one could actually suggest that the incredibly experienced, successful and knowledgeable Emery couldn’t manage our club due to a perceived language barrier, yet those same individuals have no qualm whatsoever with giving the reigns to someone who’s actually learning on the job…that’s some Bizarro World Blinders shit

    as for your following statement, that MA has provided “a singular vision with no compromise on standards and behaviour”, this my friend is an absolutely laughable notion, for a whole host of reasons, which I won’t go into detail about now because if you truly believe this to be the God’s honest truth, I refuse to try and have a rational debate with someone being totally irrational

  33. Habesha Gooner

    Andy
    I am not willing him to fail. I don’t care which way he gets champions league football. He can win the Europa league or get top 4. The objective is clear though. Champions league football is the minimum expectation for next season.

    I will be delighted if we win the Europa league. Because I love trophies and that’s a great way to get CL.. But if he is way off in the table from 4th, it will not bode well for the next level that we will expect of him. But he can stay in the job a year more after next season.

    It would point to us moving in the right direction if we get champions league football through merit in the league though. It will mean there is progress every year and we are getting closer to a league title challenge, which I think is fair for a club the size of Arsenal at some point.

  34. Habesha Gooner

    Andy
    And I don’t like that you insinuated that it is to do with whether I like him or not. This is all about the football and results. He needs to deliver. How long are we supposed to wait till we have some expectations? He is managing Arsenal FFS not Burnley. 3 and a half seasons is enough time to expect CL football as a minimum.

  35. Andy

    @The Real Vieira Lynn

    i liked emery and thought he was treated poorly by the senior players, the fanbase and the backoffice. but the reality was he landed in a very messy situation he was woefully unprepared for and didn’t receive the support from the backoffice (dodgy sanllehi was the boss at that point, don’t forget) to take on the troublemakers in the squad who were happy to achieve the bare minimum every season as long as they got a big fat paycheque. he bottled too many decisions and pandered to the senior pros in the squad who were more interested in their personal profile than any kind of progress. he was also overridden on transfer targets multiple times (torreira over nzonzi, pepe over zaha) so he never really stood a chance in the circumstances.

    if there is one thing you can say about arteta it’s that he is not afraid to take on the egos in the squad and make difficult, unpopular decisions. by all accounts he is also a great communicator at all levels of the club and has been central in bringing in a new culture across the board. emery was, by all accounts, aloof and afraid of confrontation.

    so, i’m not really sure what point you are making here. from where i am standing arteta, with the help and support of edu and mertesacker (note – all ex-arsenal players), is the one driving improvement across all aspects of the football operation since he came in and has still managed to hit his targets on the field despite all this extra-curricular activity and the fact that he has little to no experience of any of this to date. in my book, that’s a sign of someone who has special qualities and is only going to improve as time goes on.

    i’d be happy to hear all your suggestions for exactly what we need to do to get back to “where we belong” at the business end of the premier league and the latter stages of the champions league (something we rarely achieved even in the glory days of wenger) but i expect i won’t because you’re the kind who just criticises despite being “someone who hasn’t the faintest notion of what the job truly entails”.

  36. andy1886

    Nigel, Saka was equal nineteenth with eight big chances created, Ode was equal fortieth with six. To a certain extent it’s difficult to create a big chance if you have next to zero presence in the box which was the case when Laca was doing his false nine impersonation last season. But I have to say that the idea that we were fourth most creative in the league doesn’t tally with what I watched.

    Certainly if we get a decent striker we’ll see a clearer picture. Unfortunately there will be a lot of competition for the more obvious names and it’s not a certainty that we’ll get the sort of player we’d like to. Under no circumstance is Morata the answer though (if he is then as they say, we’re asking the wrong question). Hopefully that’s just nonsense paper talk.

  37. The Real Vieira Lynn

    Venga

    I was referencing an earlier conversation about ten Hag and Gasperini, who are examples of those who’ve embarked on similar organizational reinventions with considerable success, even though they had substantially less financial wherewithal and an exceedingly less desirable location, from a recruitment standpoint

  38. Naija+soccer

    The real Vieira Lynn

    More than Arteta himself, the Guardiola effect is why Arteta was given the job. He had a reputation for improving players, he’s a former player/captain, former LA masia academy graduate, but most importantly Guardiola’s assistant.

    The whole “learning on the job” thing was something that became more and more obvious as we dove deeper into his tenure. Lots of fans thought he was going to come in with all this tiki-taka football. If only they knew how pragmatic he is.

    With hindsight, if the Arsenal hierarchy and fans knew that he was going to be giving off this much rookie vibe, they would have been against his hire.

  39. Ishola70

    What Gasperini has done with Atalanta is more notable than ten Hag.

    Ajax have the history behind them plus being one of the big two in Holland along with Feyenoord whereas Atalanta were always just a midtable club in Italy and not seen as notable in their past history.

    And what Gasperini did with Atalanta was ultimately down to himself as a manager and coach.

    I have said before if you are not in the market for the real top bracket of player that is ready made to go then the onus on the coach himself becomes absolute paramount.

    People are living in dreamland if they think Arsenal can spend their way to the top of football and it’s going to be primarily about the players. It is going to be about whether Arteta is good enough as a coach and manager and that will be the case for any manager coming in after him.

  40. Ishola70

    This is why all this talk of project youth is a red herring.

    We can talk about players all day.

    In Arsenal’s situation it’s really about Arteta in whether Arsenal succeed.

  41. Tom

    Football is full of half baked opinions because most opinion givers are biased one way or another.
    Man City has been the best team in the Prem under Guardiola, so the fact Pool took them all the way to the wire, and on a ridiculously high points total again, is a credit to Klopp and his team.

    Losing CL final stings I’m sure, but again, they lost to the hottest and most decorated club in Europe having outplayed them over 90 minutes.

    As for their failure to score in three consecutive finals……..well , two of those were against Chelsea who also kept City goalless in the last year Cl final.
    That’s what good defensive sides can do to even highest scoring clubs in an one off final.
    Chelsea keeper didn’t have to make a single save on the day.

    Can you banter Pool and their fans for missing out on the quadruple ? Certainly.
    Can you say they bottled it? Yea, I suppose so, but only if sounding like a total nut job doesn’t bother you.

  42. The Real Vieira Lynn

    I70

    I would agree with your Gasperini over ten Hag assessment if it weren’t for the fact that the latter had his squad playing THEIR brand of offensively-minded football against the big boys in Europe, with notable results no less, which is quite an accomplishment considering what we had on offer the last time we were in Europe, even though we were in the second tier competition…keeping in mind that I’m a huge fan of both, which is why I brought them into the conversation

  43. Ishola70

    Vieira Lynn

    Ajax have had that brand of football in place for decades even if the players available to carry it out diminished in quality. That can help.

    ten Hag had the blueprint ready made for him at Ajax. It was pre-written whereas Gasperini wrote his own blueprint for Atalanta.

    But you obviously have respect for Gasperini which is the main thing.

  44. The Real Vieira Lynn

    Naija

    this whole underling/sidekick narrative was oversold at the time of his hiring, for obvious reasons, as anyone with half a brain would be deeply concerned that we were hiring such a novice option, considering the arduous and complicated task at hand, so anything with even a modicum of plausibility was thrown into the explanation hopper…if you look a little deeper you will discover that being Pep’s lead-hand, cones or otherwise, isn’t a pathway to managerial success…after all, Pep, like Wenger, is a micromanager, so I very much doubt they want to offer up all their trade “secrets” to someone who’s clearly using this gig as a jumping off point…not to mention, these kind of individuals rarely make exceptional teachers, as their “savant-like” tendencies aren’t easily transferable

  45. Ishola70

    I would actually say that Ajax could win Eredivisie continously and it could be seen as more about their playing brand that has been installed over many decades along with a certain calibre of player over who is coaching and managing them at that time and that can translate to them giving a good account of themselves in the CL. They can obviously tail off at some periods but it is always their that brand of theirs to rekindle . It’s just in place.

    That’s not to say that ten Hag is not a good coach and manager.

    This is why it is going to be interesting to see how ten Hag gets on at Man Utd.

    He goes from Ajax who have had a certain philosophy and brand in place for decades to a club like Man United who are in a complete mess and shambles and whether Man United are so much bigger as a club than Ajax can become irrelevant in such circumstances.

  46. The Real Vieira Lynn

    I70

    on the most pertinent issues we are in basic agreement, but Ajax hasn’t mattered in Europe for quite some time, especially not as an offensive “juggernaut” of sorts…for me, if we really cared about adopting a more progressive organizational approach, while remaining financially responsible, we would have mimicked either the Dortmund model, then accepted that some of our best and brightest would likely be sold within a 3 year window, or opted for one of these more successful hybrid models, like Ajax and Atalanta, where there’s a very good blend of young and more experienced players, which relies on savvy scouting and recruitment practices…at least this would be a “thinking man’s” approach to the squad building, as you still want to play a more direct brand of football, whereas we’ve leaned into a more relegation-based model that has a tendency to be uninventive both on and off the pitch

  47. Andy

    @The Real Vieira Lynn

    I’m really not sure where your assessment of Ten Hag is coming from. He got to CL semi in his first full season after bringing experienced premier league quality players like Blind and Tadic in and inheriting a squad full of top young talent, many of whom have since been sold. After that, his record in europe has been poor.

    Yes, Ajax under him have done well in the league but, like Bayern in Germany, winning the league every season is the bare minimum for Ajax considering the combined value of their squad is worth twice the next most valuable in the league and as much as a fringe top six side in the EPL.

    So, your “grand strategy” is to bring in coaches from abroad who have had a modicum of success but nothing outstanding in terms of meaningful trophies (Gasperini has literally never won anything in his whole long career) or european success (one CL quarter final and one completely against the odds semi final between them), who don’t know english football and either don’t speak english (Gasperini) or have a limited understanding of it (Ten Hag) and have zero experience managing a big club in the big leagues and dealing with high profile players? That’s really hilarious.

    You are obviously just an armchair crank who thinks his wacky ideas are far superior to the ones being implemented by the club that are having clear and obvious benefits on and off the pitch since Arteta came in.

    I guess we’ll find out how deluded you are when we witness Ten Hag added to the long list of disastrous magic solutions United have implemented since Ferguson retired instead of doing the hard yards of clearing the decks, implementing a proper modernised structure and rebuilding from scratch. That’s a prediction I am happy to make right now – feel free to call me out on how horribly wrong I am if Ten Hag truly turns out to be the second coming of the coaching messiah.

  48. Ishola70

    Ronaldo has been a big problem for Man United and his ex team mates who are now pundits like Roy Keane and Neville of course won’t admit to it out of some sense of loyalty to the player.

    They just point at his individual stats for the season and say this is proof enough that Ronaldo is not the problem.

    But they don’t delve deeper and think of the problems a player can cause if he becomes the absolute fulcrum of the side. The team becomes about just one player and this in turn can affect the rest of the side right down to applying the right overall tactics in a game.

    Ten hag has that really big problem as soon as he walks in the door at Man United.

  49. G

    ‘’ at.Even Ancelloti is giving Ceballos minutes even though we all derided him. He never even bothered to waste time on Odegard. That must mean something,‘’

    Means fuck all.. pretty obvious whose had the better time at Arsenal

  50. The Real Vieira Lynn

    Andy

    bang up assessment you clueless rube…it’s clear that the nuanced nature of this conversation is way above your pay grade…so according to you ten Hag is a hack and Gasperini has no chance whatsoever in implementing a similarly constructed organizational approach anywhere on the continent outside of Italy…the point was to examine those particular managers who might best provide sustainable success at a bigger club, with considerably more resources, while still maintaining the principles of the self-sustaining model, and who likewise play an attractive brand of football…in your world, anyone who would heap praise on these particular managerial options hasn’t a clue and shouldn’t even postulate such nonsense…as such, I would suspect that you don’t care whatsoever about the merits of the “eye test” and in fact prescribe to the Apologist model of closing one’s eyes and simply hoping for the best

  51. LoveSausage

    My hunch is Liverpool will start declining next season. They’ll probably still finish second or third but they won’t be pushing City until the final day of the season.

    Huge respect to them. They’ve made the PL look like a competitive league instead of what it is in reality – a one-horse race.

  52. Nigel Tufnel

    Pedro,

    I don’t think Kroenkephobe was officially banned by you.

    The fact that he’s changed his name to come back secretly shows that even he knew his reputation and behaviour were horrible.

    Still has the same opinions and disgusting tendencies.

  53. LoveSausage

    Naija,

    Wouldn’t surprise me if he left. He’s on only 100k/week and his next contract will be his last big contract. He’ll probably want to maximise his earnings and there will be plenty of options.

  54. China1

    LOL

    Rangnick proving once and for all that he’s not cut out for this level

    5 mins at Utd of abject failure and lots of moaning and then off to manage Austria. That’s ambition and quality for you

  55. China1

    The weirdest part of the rangnick story is why people are so forgiving of his failures

    Didn’t ole manage the same group of players the last couple of seasons and do better? Last season they came second and were seen a contender to come second again and close the gap a little this season with Ronaldo and sancho etc. ole tanked the start of the season and was rightly sacked – but for some strange reason Rangnick’s awful performances got exclusively blamed on the players. Why sack ole if it’s all the players fault? And how did Ole get such a bunch of misfits to come second last season? Long story short, utd are a mess and a shit show and whilst it’s hilarious Ralf is leaving, I’m actually sad because he was very much part of the problem and would’ve kept them shite for the foreseeable future if he stayed.

    You did a shit job Ralf. And for that reason I will miss you!

  56. China1

    Englandsbest I’ll believe we already have all our main targets wrapped up when I see it.

    Never in the past 15 years have we had our main targets wrapped by by late May. Not sure where that confidence comes from

  57. Naija+soccer

    There is no way Mane is still on 100k per week surely. Andrei Arshavin was on 100k per week way back in 2009. 13 years later and one of the best forwards in the world is making that amount ?

    Maybe we should go for him then since he’s so cheap. He’s only 30,

  58. Nigel Tufnel

    Englandsbest,

    We may have identified the players we prefer early… but it will be more a case of … if a big team does this,, then maybe we can do that….

    We might have had a little more control if we didn’t choke at the end of the season and miss out on CL.

    I think Jesus and Tielemans would have been sure things, for example. Now we’ll be lucky if we can land them at all.

    In the days of Wenger and short cash, we always hung around till the end of the window for a player or a bargain to shake loose late. Now it’s just a function of the market.

  59. Killroy-TM

    Looks like we have a few come to Jesus moments here”

    Nigel Tufnel
    “My hope (rose coloured glasses) is that the addition of …”

    Nigel confessing he is wearing rose coloured glasses and not looking at reality, a shocker :lol:.

    Pedro
    “The Mavropanos fee was pitiful considering the talent as was agreeing to sell Guendouzi before we saw how good he’d be at Marseille.”

    Looks like Pedro is agreeing with what many here have been saying for awhile our Deal Making Dunce and Bumteta are really bad at spotting talent.

    Watch this space for the summer TW business, may have identified incoming players, but whether they will come is a totally different story.

  60. Wickedwilly

    Is it worth us all declaring our wishlist for the summer so there is no massaging of opinions retrospectively? My pragmatic approach is:

    Jesus
    Tielemans
    Gnabry (if we can, if not, Gakpo)
    Hickey
    Ndicka
    +Dear Willy Saliba

    I feel that should be enough to get Top 4, and then next summer, go for 4 elite talents to replace the four weakest links. In this scenario, we would have a squad to compete.

  61. China1

    I think part of the problem with our sales is we’ve built up this reputation of giving players away for a pittance or free that no one believes us when we say we’re asking for the market rate now

    8m for bellerin? Betis are suddenly unable to find such a measly sum apparently? Torreira for 12m? Sorry despite selling Vlahovic they only have sub 10m to spend!

    Thankfully looks like saliba is staying but if he was sold you could see it being just for 25m despite a CB of that stature and potential being worth double that on the market.

    On the one hand I desperately want us to expedite the sale of our dross and far reaches of our fringe but on the other hand we really do have to start telling teams to fuck off if they won’t pay even close to the market price for our players. If we were Dortmund, Napoli, Spurs etc teams wouldn’t even knock on the door unless they had a solid chunk of cash in hand. But with arsenal everyone knows if you play poverty we usually flinch and let the player go

  62. The Real Vieira Lynn

    China

    I do concur with your thoughts regarding our absolutely egregious asset mismanagement, which has been a rather glaring concern for quite some time now….surprisingly, or not, things have actually gotten worse since the events of the 2017-18 season, which saw us make a player swap for Sanchez, then give that player away for functionally nothing shortly thereafter, allow Ramsey to leave on a free and vastly overpay Ozil to overcompensate for the aforementioned cock-ups…as such, there’s no doubt that other clubs have tried to take full advantage of our amateur hour business practices when it comes to all things transfer-related

    furthermore, I can’t even think of another club that has committed so many blatantly inexcusable acts when it comes to the selling of players for profit, the putting of players in the shop window to increase or stabilize their respective values, the buying out of players, the paying of players to play elsewhere, the excommunicating of players and the inability to nurture a relationship with players out on loan…frankly. if it weren’t so sad, it would be laughable…as for our supposed “deadwoods”, I would suspect that interested teams will always try to lowball us, as they figure that we might just buy them out in due time anyways

  63. Dark Hei

    China1

    I don’t think we should be selling Gabriel; unless Gabriel wants to go. Even with Saliba coming in.

    Saliba coming in means potentially, we don’t need to get a backup RB since White can play right as well.

    There is likely going to be minutes to be handed around. I mean Cedric clocked a lot of mileage and that was without Europa

  64. China1

    I wouldn’t sell him either. But if we’re on the topic of sales and offers, if juve want to lowball us they should be told to shove it

  65. China1

    Like whilst I also wouldn’t want to sell Gabriel. If a club put 60+m on the table that’s at least the market rate and it could be looked at

    Promote Saliba in his place and spend that 60m elsewhere.

    Not saying it’s the absolute best choice but it would at least be worth considering

    But whenever juve are after a player they run the poverty line and unsettle the player until they force through a move at an acceptable discount. I’d tell them to fuck right off if they wanna play those games with us. Put proper money on the table or suck it

  66. Thorough

    G
    at.Even Ancelloti is giving Ceballos minutes even though we all derided him. He never even bothered to waste time on Odegard. That must mean something,‘’Means fuck all.. pretty obvious whose had the better time at Arsenal

    Means a lot actually. We watched Ceballos and he was tosh. But even a terrible Ceballos is getting minutes in Madrid that Odegard didn’t have.

    Or you’re going to tell me Arteta is this great judge of talent and Ancelloti is just missing the point?

  67. Dark Hei

    Thorough

    Basically your point is that Ceballos is actually a very good player, far better than Odegard, just chronically mismanaged by Arteta who criminally gave him away for a very expensive Odegard.

    The evidence is Ceballos coming on for a few minutes in the CL final ensuring Real Madrid glorious finish and win.

    Seriously man.

  68. Bob N16

    Samuel, you should probably head on to a Liverpool site if you want to wind up as much people as possible.

    Read in this morning’s papers that Jesus is sharing a room with our two Gabriels on Brazil duty- coincidence? I hope not.

  69. Terraloon

    Samuel

    It was payback for what the English fans did in France during Euro 2016 so stop your whining you English pricks.

    I doubt anyone on here has any love ,respect or sympathy with Liverpool supporter but what we witnessed and what they were subjected to on Saturday can’t be justified in any way shape or form.

  70. The Bard

    A strange post Pedro. Not quite sure what the gist of it is. Liverpool have been tremendous, they have a culture we can only dream about. When the transfer window really kicks in who do you think will come out of it the better? You can put money on it not being us.

  71. gnarleygeorge9

    Payback? To quote Masai of the Riffs

    “Who are the Bindippers? There must be some word! I want them all! I want ALL the Bindippers! I want them alive, if possible. If not, wasted! But I want them. Send the word!” 😂

    Liverpoo are just one club in our cross hairs Sammy old son.

  72. Samesong

    Must be me but I haven’t heard any Pool fans talking up winning the qadruple. Man United still remain the most delusional fans on face of the planet.

    I don’t hate Liverpool or their fans. I grew up in the era where I watched Ian rush, Kenny Daglish, John Barnes, Sammy Lee etc and they were a very entertaining team to watch. PL would of been a bore seeing City just smash the league on their own.

  73. Mr Serge

    Same song I have had plenty pool fans taking about the quadruple at least 10 that I can think of at the top of my head.

  74. Valentin

    Personally I find as a group the most obnoxious fans to be

    1) Liverpool
    2) ManUtd
    3) Chelsea

    Of course every clubs have genuinely nice fans and morons, but as soon they are in group fans of those clubs tend to behave like spoilt, entitled prats.

    The few times I had the misfortune to meet them I also found that Millwall and Rangers fans are in a league of their in the racist/bigoted deluded fans.

  75. Valentin

    BTW that narrative of Kane overachieving in term of goals that Pedro is now trying to convince everyone ready to listen does not tie with any statistical data.

    In fact Kane played less than before and in term of non-penalty G-xG is the second worst striker in the premiership.
    According to his xG he should have scored 4.1 more goals.
    In comparison Lacazette was 4th with a non-penalty G-xG of -3.6.

    This is Kane worst non-penalty G-xG return in the premiership. So if next season he plays more minutes in the premiership while reverting to his usual conversion ratio, it is likely he will get more than his season 17 goals.

  76. IAT-Robbie

    Andy,

    The reality of what’s in front of us is what you’re not seeing. We don’t have a clear identity after almost 3 years. We don’t score enough goals or create enough quality chances. We are producing Europa Level results on a Champions League budget. None of those things are untrue, so what’s unrealistic about that outlook?

    The coaches who were pipped to be elite earlier had done something remarkable by the same stage of their career that Arteta is in. Klopp had secured Mainz’ ever first promotion to the Bundesliga. Ferguson had won a Division title with lowly St. Mirren. Conte had been promoted to Serie A with Bari. Guardiola had won his third La Liga title. Mourinho had won the UEFA Cup and Liga title.

    Let’s imagine Arteta had never played for Arsenal and instead he was currently managing Valencia or Everton. If after 30 months; a quarter of £1 billion spent with those teams, he’d finished 8th, 8th, 5th and scored 56,55,61 goals… Would there genuinely be any Gooners clamouring for us to hire him?

  77. Pierre

    Personally, I think the worse type of fans are the ones who turn on their own manager , who had won 3 league titles , 7 fa cups and qualified for champions league football for 2 decades , a manager who was 5 minutes away from being champions of europe, had ten runners up in different comps in his time at the club and had Arsenal playing the most wonderful , pure , exciting and entertaining football that you’d wish to see.

    Yes, the Wenger out brigade (WOBS) , also known as the KNOBS are /were the most entitled, ignorant , abusive group of so called supporters you could wish to see and made Arsenal football club a laughing stock…

    A shameful way to behave against your own club.

  78. Gonsterous

    Pierre

    Nice bait, no ones gonna bite though. Maybe stop being Wenger up every single day. That would be a nice change.

    Let the guy enjoy his retirement from managing.

  79. Mr Serge

    Pierre I know the supporters where right to turn on wenger he was killing us come the last 2 seasons
    What has he done since ?
    How many teams has he managed ?

    None oh ok lol

  80. Emiratesstroller

    Arsenal’s priority transfers are a Centre Forward and a Central Midfielder. The players, which appear to be the most likely to be recruited in those positions appear to be Jesus and Tielemans. Personally I would not be opposed to either even if they are not superstars, because both have played at top level of the game and are reliable.

    Recently Arsenal have been also linked to Gnabry as a potential replacement for Pepe. He is
    of course an excellent player. The concern I would pose is that if he comes in where is Saka
    going to play, because he plays right wing/midfield in our current set up? Gnabry would
    most definitely want to play in his favoured position in starting lineup.

    If he comes in then I assume that Saka will be competing with Martinelli and Smith-Rowe
    for the left wing/midfield position in starting lineup.

    I am all for recruiting two players aged 25-26 who are in their prime. That is important for
    the development of the team, but it must not be at the expense of our three most gifted youngsters in our squad.

  81. TR7

    Pierre

    Wenger needed to go (retire). I think he lost the drive to compete and was too soft with players. But yes we needed a Pep/Klopp/Conte/Tuchel to replace him, not the Emerys and Artetas of the world.

  82. Valentin

    By the way for those who still buy the English propaganda that Liverpool fans were unfairly treated. Here are some picture of the states the fan zone was left by those. Basically lots of Liverpool fans behaved like drunken thugish sailors all afternoon. It took the entire night to clean the mess they left behind.

    https://www.bfmtv.com/paris/paris-une-mer-de-dechets-dans-la-fan-zone-de-vincennes-apres-le-passage-des-supporters-anglais_AV-202205290142.html

    Also despite the Athletic article absolving Liverpool FC and Liverpool fans of any wrong doing, it looks like the original issue stems directly from Liverpool FC.

    Liverpool FC requested to have paper tickets on top of electronic tickets. Because of the latestness of the request, the UEFA tickets did not include NFC cards. British scammers copied those paper tickets and between 20,000 to 40,000 fraudulents tickets attempted to enter the stadium causing congestion and then panic from the French police.

    Real Madrid did NOT request paper ticket for general entry, its fans had to electronically scan their ticket available only in the UEFA app. The result, very few attempt to fraudulently enter the stadium.

    This weekend Marseille hosted the European Heineken Cup Rugby final between Leinster and LaRochelle. Irish fans drank a lot, yet there was no issue in the fan zone nor in the stadium. Marseille is a lot more volatile than the Stade de France surroundings.

    Maybe Liverpool FC could explain why the ticketing issues always seems to appear when they play in final. It was the same in their last 3 finals. Greece, Rome, Paris all suffered massive issues at the gate.

  83. raptora

    The thing that annoys me the most in Odegaard is this:

    https://fbref.com/en/players/79300479/Martin-Odegaard

    Dribbles Completed – 0.71 per 90 min, in the 7th percentile
    Touches in attacking penalty area – 2.33 per 90 min, in the 6th percentile
    Progressive Passes Received (Completed passes that move the ball towards the opponent’s goal at least 10 yards from its furthest point in the last six passes, or any completed pass into the penalty area. Excludes passes from the defending 40% of the pitch) – 3.78 per 90 min, in the 7th percentile

    Bottom shelf stats. Clearly, it’s fanciful to ask of a player to not have a weakness.

    But this is an ATTACKING MIDFIELDER we are talking about.

    He doesn’t dribble. (bottom 7%)
    He doesn’t play with the ball in the penalty area. (bottom 6%)
    He doesn’t make any attempts to run into free space and receive the ball at a speed in an advanced position, but waits in place for the ball to come to him. (bottom 7%)

    30% is fine, 40% is fine, 50% is fine. But bottom 6-7% in what any proper ATTACKING midfielder should be good at?!

    It actually describes the player so well.

    Slow, risk-averse, lethargic, dull.

  84. Valentin

    By the way for those who still buy the English propaganda that Liverpool fans were unfairly treated. Here are some picture of the states the fan zone was left by those. Basically lots of Liverpool fans behaved like drunken thugish sailors all afternoon. It took the entire night to clean the mess they left behind.

    https://www.bfmtv.com/paris/paris-une-mer-de-dechets-dans-la-fan-zone-de-vincennes-apres-le-passage-des-supporters-anglais_AV-202205290142.html

    Also despite the Athletic article absolving Liverpool FC and Liverpool fans of any wrong doing, it looks like the original issue stems directly from Liverpool FC.

    Liverpool FC requested to have paper tickets on top of electronic tickets. Because of the latestness of the request, the UEFA tickets did not include NFC cards. British scammers copied those paper tickets and between 20,000 to 40,000 fraudulents tickets attempted to enter the stadium causing congestion and then panic from the French police.

    Real Madrid did NOT request paper ticket for general entry, its fans had to electronically scan their ticket available only in the UEFA app. The result, very few attempt to fraudulently enter the stadium.

    This weekend Marseille hosted the European Heineken Cup Rugby final between Leinster and LaRochelle. Irish fans drank a lot, yet there was no issue in the fan zone nor in the stadium. Marseille is a lot more volatile than the Stade de France surroundings.

    Maybe Liverpool FC could explain why the ticketing issues always seems to appear when they play in final. It was the same in their last 3 finals that all suffered massive issues at the entrance gates.

  85. Foxy

    without Oil type money Liverpool could indeed be facing a squad rebuild option. They could even end going the same way as United at the end of Fergie’s reign. One solution would to be bold and let the likes of mane and salah go now for whatever they can get and bring in younger stars like Gnabry.

    Apart from Saka, Tomi and Partey I would not be adverse to selling any of our squad if the net result is an overall strengthening of the squad. Sell those that can more or less be replaced at modest cost through clever recruitment e.g Tierney and use the extra cash to buy real CL quality like Ganbry and Jesus and a top MF.

  86. Ishola70

    It was clearly seen that the first and main use of the tear gas was used on local Parisians who came to the ground to cause problems.

    No-one should be surprised at heavy handed police action now anymore after the appalling scenes we saw throughout europe during the pandemic.

  87. Valentin

    raptora,

    this is exactly why Arteta likes Ødegaard. He stays in his position, does not take risks that results in losing the ball, does not make hollywood pass that can be intercepted and from the opposition can counter attack.
    He recycles the ball with little penetration. He is a Norwegian Denilson. Most of his chances creations are sideways passes to Partey who then attempt to dropgoal. Tidy, steady type of players, unsuited to a team like Arsenal who does not have two world classes attackers and two fullback world class at creating chances.

    with him and Xhaka in midfield, we lack physicality, turn of speed, predictable as both are so one paced AND one footed. Tactics can cover players deficiencies, but Arteta’s approach just magnify both players’; slow, ponderous, lateral, risk adverse.

  88. GoonerDave

    Valentin
    Racism and bigotry are wrong. But your sectarianism against Catholics in the north of Ireland was okay was it? Is bigotry okay when you do it? You are a fraud. Like so many others crying about racism and bigotry, you are one of the biggest culprits.
    Valentin is the resident bigot and the hypocrite of Le grove. And it will never be forgotten.

  89. raptora

    Looking at Olympique de Marseille (just an example):

    20/21 GF 54 GA 47 GD +7
    21/22 GF 63 GA 38 GD +25

    This is a good measure of progress – their side has scored more goals and conceded less goals.

    Our progression is:

    19/20 GF 56 GA 48 GD +8
    20/21 GF 55 GA 39 GD +16
    21/22 GF 61 GA 48 GD +13

    If it wasn’t for the 5 goals scored in the last meaningless game, we would be right where we were 24 months ago.

    I don’t see any progress on the playing field. Maybe I need to wait for 2030 for this project to bang. Maybe then we will not be bragging with our “youngest team in the league” trophy and will try to fight for the third grade rewards like winning the EPL title.

  90. China1

    Good post Robbie

    Artetas not a terrible manager but the problem is there is thus far limited evidence of him being a really good one.

    His record vs the amount of power he’s been given and the amount of money he has spent vs his reputation are not in balance. The idea of Arteta is better than actual Arteta because as you said if the same was being achieved elsewhere I don’t think we’d be saying ‘wow I hope he joins arsenal one day’. He’d be largely ignored in that second tier of managers

    But he’s here now. I hope he learns and improves and becomes the level we need to kick on. He’s done ok in some aspects.

  91. IAT-Robbie

    “The idea of Arteta is better than actual Arteta”

    China1,

    That is very true. It would be nice if the idea could manifest itself very soon.

  92. Paulie

    Good to see Arsenal moving fast in the transfer market as usual. Expect the usual nonsense excuses until transfer deadline day when we will be told there was nobody available.

  93. Valentin

    GoonerDave,

    I have no idea where you got the idea that I shown any sectarism against catholic in Northern Ireland.
    I was raised in a Catholic environment. Most of my childhood friend are still catholic.
    The only time I spoke about Norther Ireland was to talk about a former girlfriend who was catholic as well. Her mom was loopy but that was completely irrelevant to the fact that she was an IRA sympathiser.

  94. Guns of Hackney

    Let’s stop with the scouse love in. Good domestic team, yes but anything else is jingoistic propaganda. They got beat by a really shit Real team. End of. City best them to the title and honestly, the invincible team we had would have smoked them.

    We aren’t signing anyone. Why not?

  95. InsideRight

    Is there ever going to be a summer where we actually have targets lined up and ready to join us, so we can just get our business done and enable the new look squad to bond and have a full pre season together?

    Almost every year it’s the same, with lots of media updates about protracted negotiations lasting weeks before the player falls out of the reckoning. Whether you rate Diaz or not, Liverpool were all over him for months and had everything squared away with Porto. When Spuds moved for him, Liverpool were tipped off and they jumped in to finish off the deal in short order. That’s how to get business done. Arsenal seem to pussy foot around and too many transfers are like bloody soap opera sagas.

    This summer will tell us a lot. Transfer window opens on 10th June. If we haven’t got everything lined up and our business done before the end of June, it will show we have not learned anything. I’m hoping in my heart for a very pleasant surprise, my head tells me we will see more of the same.

  96. UTarse

    The British media doing what they do best… propagate bullshit to hide the truth…. The scousers were being scousers… they faked the fucking tickets on a huge scale.

  97. Bob N16

    The victims were the innocent Scousers who had genuine tickets.

    The scousers who bought fake tickets caused the French Police to do what they do. Real Madrid fans didn’t ask for paper tickets and had no problem. The European Championship final which had England fans without tickets steaming into the stadium must have had the French worried.

    The media in this country will play the anti French card and are too nervous to criticise Liverpool supporters.

  98. LoveSausage

    Raptora,

    Those are interesting stats.

    I’m not willing to write Ode off yet. There’s a player in there even though he was disappointing at times this season. I hope he’ll come good next season but I believe much of it will depend on our recruitment. If we get a good left-sided #8 (like Tielemans), switch to a 4-3-3, and start attacking down that side, I think Ode might flourish.

    If we continue playing 4-2-3-1 and stick with Ode as our only CAM, it’ll probably be more of the same. IMO, he’s a good player but not good enough to run the show on his own.

  99. Ishola70

    If people can’t see that there were Parisians being teargassed the other night for confrontations with the police both regarding trying to get in free and general skirmishes with them including after the match then you are seeing what you want to see or are completely blind.

    They stick out like sore thumbs.

    That’s not to ignore ticketing problems but many videos show clearly that disaffected youth again of Paris came out for a big event knowing that they can have confrontations with the police and we know the state apparatus will be only to glad to oblige them.

  100. Naija+soccer

    Raptora

    How do you think ESR would fare in Odegaard’s position ? ESR is a better risk taker I think and he’s got enough technique to play the attacking midfielder position. He also had a telekinetic understanding with Saka on the right.

    Do you think Odegaard has done enough to justify moving ESR out-wide and on the bench?

  101. LoveSausage

    Whenever these types of confrontations happen, some innocent people will always suffer. But you gotta ask yourself why this always happens to the scousers. Could it maybe be because a significant number of their fans act like scum?

    They’ve perfected the art of playing victims and invoking Hillsborough whenever something happens. It’s just cynical and they’ll get no sympathy from me.

  102. Ishola70

    Truth is the days of real bad English hooligans on the rampage in europe is over.

    Now it is sensationalised if we look at what used to happen and a lot of it is tame in comparison to the real bad old days.

    The biggest confrontations the police had the other night were with youths from the banlieues.

  103. Naija+soccer

    For me Odegaard’s best attribute seems to be keeping and maintaining possession. The best attacking midfielders in the world, KDB, David Silva, Fabregas, Iniesta etc are killers. Even Maddison the guy we ignored for him, is more of a game changer and killer than Odegaard.

    Perhaps he’s a CM and not an AM. Hes more Xhaka than he is David Silva. Just has more flair but less efdectiveness.

  104. Havyn

    Pedro
    Liverpool didn’t do it the hard way . This is a favourite statement often made by Pool fans and pundits.
    Van 75m
    Allison 72m
    Keita 50m
    Luis 50
    Ox 35
    Jota 50
    Fabinho 35
    Konate 45

    These don’t look like players bought on the cheap.

    So why do you keep on saying they did it the hard. Of course they sold Coutinho for 145m which helped.

    Our problem is Edu. He’s not good at negotiating good deals. He gives out our players for free and buy expensively. The question is? Is he controlled by his friends Raul Sanhelli and Kis Joorabchan? I smell something fishy in our DF.

  105. Thorough

    Raptor a.
    Amazing points. Just watching Odegard for the past 18 months alone I could guess those statistics. A playmaker who can’t dribble his own spittle, can’t shoot to save his life, pulls off one defence-splitting pass once in a blue moon and someone who is less productive than the ESR we thought wasn’t good enough to play make for a top 4 team.

    How Arsenal fans can be satisfied with a playmaker that’s worse than what teams that are rungs below us have is mind-boggling. Coutinho is in fucking Villa, Gallagher in Palace, Erickson in relegation fodder Brendford, Maddison in Leicester, just to mention a few. How the hell can Arsenal fans be satisfied with a barren playmaker like Odegard. Just how?

  106. Ishola70

    Regarding fraud tickets well it would not surprise anyone that some certain scousers are involved in that.

    But I find the figure quoted earlier on here of between 20,000 – 40,000 fraud tickets in play on the night very hard to believe.

    The figures quoted are a clue in itself that it is very highly exaggerated. 20,000 is a huge number in itself but let’s double that figure eh.

  107. Mr Serge

    no way was there 40000 fake paper tickets maybe 2000 any more than that cant be true, i mean how many scousers are going to travel to paris to maybe get in as they have a fake ticket? if there were that many someone would have said something and the authorities would have been alerted well before the game.

  108. Naija+soccer

    Thorough

    So far the best statement to describe Odegaard is “flatter to deceive”. He looks neat, tidy with some flair and makes you think he’s the next Ozil.

    He would be better as a CM but his body and spirit is too slight.

  109. Valentin

    Edu may not be a good negotiator, but he is also hampered by Arteta inflexibility. He kept falling out with players and they want out. Some don’t care about the money and just want out others just want their money due for the remaining of their contract.
    Willian agree to cancel his contract. Mustafi took a pay cut rather than sign an extension. Guendouzi, Mavrapanos were ostracised so we had to accept what the buyer clubs were willing to pay.
    Arsenal had subsidise Özil and Aubameyang wage for them to leave.
    Runnarson is so awful that no club with money will take him. Turkish 3rd division is his level and they don’t swim in cash.

    It is very difficult to sell players when everybody knows that the manager does not want them. Add the fact that some are simply not the level of their wage. At Arsenal Pablo Mari, Torreira were on wage that would make them among the top salaries in Italy.

    On top of that, this summer a lot players Arteta wants to get rid are on their last year of contract, so they have all the leverage.

    I do expect some sale, but I fear they are unlikely to being the kind of cash some are mentioning.

  110. Thorough

    Nqija+Soccer.
    Sadly enough I don’t think he’ll make a good CM. His tackling isn’t great and he’ll need to do that more often. I remember him causing us penalties twice at least just by being clumsy..Its so obvious but it always takes Arsenal 3 years to realize a player isn’t good enough.

  111. InsideRight

    I can foresee a situation long into the future where Aouar is 48 years old, retired and using a walking stick, but Arsenal are still being linked with him during a summer transfer window.

  112. Naija+soccer

    Thorough

    It isn’t that it takes us 3 years to realize a player isn’t good enough. We know they aren’t good enough but we are always hoping there is another level there. But after 3 years of seeing the same level, we eventually lose patience with said player.

  113. Ishola70

    Mr Serge

    “no way was there 40000 fake paper tickets maybe 2000 any more than that cant be true”

    Yes beyond belief. That number is a very large full stadium capacity in itself.

    Your number seems realistic. A couple of thousand at most.

    What seems to have happened here is that the French authorities caught wind that there were some fake tickets among Liverpool fans and put measures in to weed them out early. Virtually all reports state that the delay and overcrowding of fans was due to a primary security checkpoint that was very small which created a bottleneck with the fans.

    And as said before the more serious confrontations with the police were not with Liverpool fans it was with Parisian youth having themselves a bit of entertainment with their own police. You see them mingling with Liverpool fans. Easy to spot.

  114. Valentin

    I don’t think that all those people knew they had fake tickets. French authorities now saying that it was massive industrial scale fake ticketting.

    There was a Liverpool fan complaining that he had been unable to attend the game, and when explaining the situation to a reporter he told him that his ticket was fake anyway.

    If you have the design of a paper tickets, you can then easily create copy. Again because the lateness of the request by Liverpool FC UEFA did not put a good NFC chip in them, so any gang with a good printing press could fake those tickets.

    If gangs print fake coupons for food and make money, there is no doubt that some will print fake tickets to gullible buyers. You just need to go on eBay or Etsy to be convinced.

  115. Dissenter

    Imagine 500 people showing up at the games with fake tickets and refusing to leave
    There were reports that lots of scouters were traveling to Paris without tickets, even though the allotment was all used up.
    No one expected some fo those fans would show up with *** trying to enter the stadium.

    Liverpool fans disproportionately give English football a bad name when they travel abroad.
    I still wonder what that 1988-89 Arsenal team could have done in Europe if not for the 5-year bans that Liverpool earned for everyone else.

  116. Robert Pires

    News we’re one of 4 EPL clubs in for Lenglet.
    No, thanks.
    Slow, ponderous, and makes at least as many mistakes as Mustafi these days. Him an Umtiti are done, at least temporarily.

    oh and thanks for that Naija:
    “He (Odegaard) would be better as a CM but his body and spirit is too slight.”

    LOL his spirit is too slight. Good one.