Jose Mourinh-oh-no

by & filed under News Review.

Good morning my darlings, a very short post from me today because I have NOTHING to write about.

The hot news that has the comments section in a fluster is the story that Jose Mourinho has said NO to Lyon. Why? He wants a job in England.

Some are speculating he’s looking to sneak the Spurs job, I find this one tough to grapple with. Daniel Levy knows he has a great coach (that is clearly under fire), one that’s not dealt with dark times in his Scum career so far, so I’d imagine he’ll see it through with Poch.

Interesting thing with Spurs is they haven’t been a well-run club prior to Levy. If anything, Poch and the generation of elite talent they cultivated has been the happiest of accidents. I am going to watch with a fascinated eye to see what happens next, because based on historical evidence, they could go back to type after this generation withers and dies. Poch has created the impossible there, he’s crafted talent, he’s spent very little, and he’s kept players so motivated, money hasn’t been an issue. That’s coming to an end, the dream was a potless one.

Anyway… bring back Harry.

The second Jose conspiracy theory is that he’s waiting on Unai Emery to fail. Mustafi ramped up the pressure. As I said yesterday, the German defensive expert was on the path to a Balon D’or before Emery took over at Arsenal. The Spaniard crushed his spirit, forced Arsenal internet to take up arms against him, now Unai is left with blood on his hands.

Will the board tolerate this? Who knows…

I do think everyone has a feeling in their bones that Jose is waiting for the guillotine to drop. His agent is probably telling Edu that Jose is a top 4 machine, Edu probably has a top 4 bonus planned. The agent might even be slipping him a presentation… not a powerpoint, like Unai did… no, a Google Slides, because he is a modern businessman willing to create in the cloud… the same place he crafted his Arsenal vision.

I do not think this is a good long term option for Arsenal, but contrary to some of the shrieks I hear, Jose would be a good stop-gap… and any man that cries that he misses football is going to be more than happy to take on our incredible squad of players.

Also worth noting the press hype…

‘Jose was right about United after all’

Those stories are no accident.

Right, that’s my inflammatory post for the day, see YOU in the comments where I will battle you with all my will. xxx

528 Responses to “Jose Mourinh-oh-no”

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  1. Receding Hairline

    Wengaball what is fluid football exactly? How many teams and coaches play this “fluid football” or is it an Emery issue alone?

    I remind most of you again, AFC is not Emery’s first job in football so those of us who watch other teams play have watched teams he coached play

    Almeria a team he brought up from the lower leagues played good football

    Valencia played good football his time there with many technically gifted players making the team week in week out

    Sevilla played very good football under him, defensively suspect, but nevertheless good. Go watch their second half dismantling of Liverpool in a cup final.

    PSG played some good stuff under him, scored loads of goals.

    So the idea we have an anti-football manger who hates Ozil is not only laughable, it is false. If that were the case many teams around Europe play “fluid football” and this Ozil who e[epitomizes fluidity will not be waiting to outlast the Evil anti-football man…he will have offers up the wazu. Mkhi and Sanchez found clubs, he is still playing the outlasting game, i am told its because he loves Arsenal.

  2. Champagne charlie

    “I said we score enough to make top 4 because we have a top 4 attack but we concede far too much for a team aiming for the top but you want to beat Emery with the Ozil stick so you’d say anything no matter how ridiculous it.“

    Yea, and you completely ignore any and all context when providing a view. You consider every club the same and go from there with ignorant comparisons.

    We have a squad with top heavy talent and a coach that isn’t interested in defending and only interested in scoring and winning games 5-4 over 1-0.

    We should be out scoring the majority of the teams in the league, and by a considerable margin if we want to compete because of the balance of our resources. None of which negates the defensive issues as you seem hell bent on stating time and again.

    We scored 6 more goals than Spurs over 38 games last season and you’re giddy at crowning us ‘third highest scorers in the league’, this season Chelsea have scored 5 more goals than us in 8 games and you’re adamant we’re scoring enough. Quite something.

    The very fact you’re dressing up Ozil’s involvement as “ridiculous” lays bare who’s the emotional mess on the subject.

    I’ve not commented to what end I’d include him, or even how it’d work, I’ve simply stated that to ostracise a player with that much creative potential WHILST struggling to create, is baffling.

  3. azed

    Valentin

    Both Spurs and Chelsea have scored more than us but we are above them because we have conceded less.

    We already score enough goals to make top 4 but we don’t have a top 4 defence. This is the reality and adding Ozil will not improve our defence. On the other hand, replacing Sokratis and Xhaka might actually help improve our defence.

  4. UTarse

    “Work in banking and listen to the exchange between traders on the floor. Same thing in merger and acquisition. The head of the department is just the official nanny or butler of the real players.”

    This is bullshit.

  5. azed

    CC

    Last season, Iwobi led Arsenal in “most big chance created” category yet he was deemed not good enough.

    Kolasinac and Mkhitaryan are joined tied for 2nd and they are also deemed not good enough.

    The stats do not support Mesut Ozil. I have also argued that Big chances created is a meaningless stat only peddled by Pierre because Ryan Fraser created the most big chances in the league and I doubt anyone would want him in the squad.

  6. Receding Hairline

    “I did not brought that up, but I can tell you in every company where the the employee is the rain maker and the immediate superior job is to make sure that the employee continue to perform.Work in banking and listen to the exchange between traders on the floor. Same thing in merger and acquisition. The head of the department is just the official nanny or butler of the real players.Work in the music industry where the artists can tell their producers to F** off. In Music, film, publishing industries producers, directors, editors can lose their job because of the tantrum of a spoilt artists.I could cite numerous other examples. That does not mean that the manager will not exert his vengeance any other way. That does not mean that it is normal, but if you footballer autobiography you’ll find it is a lot more current than you think.”

    SMH…This guy

  7. bennydevito

    ValentinOctober 11, 2019    10:33:31

    Sorry, but I am with Pierre on that one. It is a flawed policy. A good manager selects players on what they can bring in game, not just just how they behave in training.
    If only good trainers were selected to play, Le Tissier would never have played a single game for Southampton. Because of his knees, Lesley King could not train with Spurs yet was their captain and the first name of the teamsheets.

    >>>>>>

    Sorry Valentin, but it’s your logic that’s flawed. A player not trainun properly because of physical impairment/injuries is very different from a lazy bastard as confirmed by Mertesacker, Emery and Raul.

    ValentinOctober 11, 2019    11:00:54

    Graham62,

    I am not saying that Emery has to play Özil, just that the argument that he should not be selected because he did not train properly is flawed.
    When I prove to you via example that it is a flawed policy, you have no counter arguments, just petty name calling.
    You are the one who is therefore made to look stupid.

    >>>>>>

    You’re the one looking stupid because your logic is flawed as explained above.

    ValentinOctober 11, 2019    11:51:05

    Receding,

    Another BS deflection from you now that you have been cornered.
    Le Tissier was not injured all his career. He was a lazy bad trainer who carried that reputation all his professional life. However come Saturday he was turning the skill on.
    I also noticed that you did not comment on Vivianne Miedema situation. Worst trainer in Arsenal women team, yet best player. How does that reconcile with your opinion. And no she does not carry an injury.

    >>>>>>>

    It reconciles because unlike Miedema, Ozil is NOT our best player.

  8. Champagne charlie

    Azed

    No you’ve got it wrong, the stats don’t support Emery, hence the questioning of his omitting of Ozil on this particular topic, other topics are Chambers in the defence, Mustafi in the defence.

    If we were purring along nicely creating chances galore and sweeping teams aside I’d not see Ozils exclusion as an issue. But we’re not, we’re turgid, and starting to rely heavily once again on unsustainable efficiency in front of goal.

    So, it goes from ‘we’re doing the business so fair enough on what decisions are being made’ to ‘we can’t breakdown Bournemouth, how can’t Ozil get 20 mins here to try and unlock something’.

    It’s not a far fetched discussion, it’s just made one by people that are so adamant to overstate what will occur with potential inclusion. We’d certainly not be any less creative with Ozil, and he’d not disrupt our stellar defence. So all in all it’s just guys needing to air a defence of Emery that see Ozil as the next available in.

  9. Champagne charlie

    “It reconciles because unlike Miedema, Ozil is NOT our best player.“

    Which was never the point suggested by him. He used that reference to illustrate how performance in training isn’t directly indicative of match day performances.

    How the ladies best player is the worst trainer, ergo Ozil being shit in training doesn’t for a second serve as a reason for his exclusion from the side because he could very well deliver something to make the difference in a game.

    I mean goodness gracious it was fucking obvious a point as you’re likely to see made, does the international break dull the senses that much on here?

  10. Receding Hairline

    “Which was never the point suggested by him”

    It kind of was

    When you drop names like Le Tissier (best player during his time at the saints) you are insinuating Ozil is some misunderstood genius who would elevate us to new heights if indulged in training and simply allowed to perform on match days.

    But that is simply not true because on most match days this poor trainer is also a poor competitor

  11. Champagne charlie

    “Charles has Ozil been a problem before Emery or did he just become a problem under Emery?“

    Ozil isn’t the problem here, it’s squad utilisation that’s the subject. Ozil in recent seasons has been a shadow of his peak, but that doesn’t for a second detract from his bread and butter as a footballer: creativity.

    “When you drop names like Le Tissier (best player during his time at the saints) you are insinuating Ozil is some misunderstood genius who would elevate us to new heights if indulged”

    I don’t think that’s the view at all, I think he was highlighting in the most obvious fashion that the correlation between training and match days is a porous argument, that some of the best/most influential players were abject trainers.

    If you’re taking that as Ozil being our ‘best’ player I think that’s purposely missing the point on account of who made the comment. The focus is debunking the ‘training like a prat’ mythology for good cause that he’s not utilised. We’re struggling to create and have what many consider a generational talent, however much a shadows of himself as you wish to argue, literally existing at Colney.

    What are the possible downsides of including Ozil for 20 mins in games like the one against Bournemouth where nothing was happening for us? We’re not a delicate collective despite some laughable claims otherwise from certain corners. At worst he’d have no impact, at best he’d be vintage Ozil for one pass that kills a game.

  12. Receding Hairline

    “What are the possible downsides of including Ozil for 20 mins in games like the one against Bournemouth where nothing was happening for us? ”

    Players that came on against Bournemouth …Willock, Torriera, Martinelli , our future.

    The possible downside is pandering to a footballer way past his prime in the hope he fancies it that day against giving game time to hungry and willing youngsters raring to go.

  13. azed

    “If we were purring along nicely creating chances galore and sweeping teams aside I’d not see Ozils exclusion as an issue. But we’re not, we’re turgid, and starting to rely heavily once again on unsustainable efficiency in front of goal.”

    Iwobi created the most big chances last season and if you were miffed about our ability to create chances, you should be annoyed we sold Iwobi and not clamour for Ozil.
    Our top 3 big chance creators are folks we all bash.

  14. Receding Hairline

    “We’re struggling to create and have what many consider a generational talent, however much a shadows of himself as you wish to argue, literally existing at Colney.”

    A generational talent you have been struggling to give away and no one is biting should tell you all you need to know about said talent

    We have Edu and Raul, men who have been around football most of their adult lives, and Metersacker also at the club, if Ozil is being mistreated or misused this men will have something to say about it

    The powers that be at AFC are tired of this moody unmotivated footballer and want shot if him, the earlier you guys realize that the better.

    Ozil is the past

  15. Chris

    Just to change the subject for a moment, did anyone else note what Vinai said last night about the potential for safe standing at the Emirates? Unfortunately it would seem the design of the lower tier seems to be unsuitable for safe standing unless capacity was somewhat reduced.

    The club are looking into it further however. It is obviously far from being approved by the government but it would be a bit disappointing if we couldn’t install safe standing, or at least not at the cost of overall capacity. I have no doubt it would improve atmosphere.

  16. Champagne charlie

    “Iwobi created the most big chances last season and if you were miffed about our ability to create chances, you should be annoyed we sold Iwobi and not clamour for Ozil.“

    We replaced Iwobi with Pepe, think I’ll save the tears. We didn’t replace Ozil, he’s just been shunted to the side and is of no use despite us being unable to create chances at a decent clip. Swing and a miss.

    Receding
    It isn’t an either/or scenario, what’s with this black and white theme? You can utilise Ozil to the benefit of the squad and blood younger players, it’s about suitability.

    As far as this absence being a ‘tactic’ to rid us of him, that’s conjecture. I’m not aligning myself to the idea of mistreatment, I’m saying Emery has a 23 man squad and to shun one of them with Ozil’s potential skill set despite our shortcomings in that very department, is poor.

  17. Receding Hairline

    Charles everything is conjecture

    In a environment a manger or supervisor has employees he trusts and those he doesn’t, It is obvious Emery has decided Ozil is not a player he can rely on at the moment and is utilizing other members of the squad he feels he can rely on, and seeing as he is the man who loses his job if he doesn’t meet his target i have no issues with that.

    I have watched Ozil play for years now and if his performances the last two seasons are markers to go by i don”t think we are missing anything big or that his inclusion shifts the needle as much as some of you want us to believe

  18. Champagne charlie

    Receding

    That would be all well and good if Emery’s decisions were absolute and unquestionable, but they’re clearly not.

    Hence his decision to omit Ozil, for whatever reason you care to cite, being open for debate.

  19. Marc

    I really think the whole Ozil saga on here is just people looking for an excuse to have a pop at Emery (with the obvious exception of Pierre).

    Ozil is finished at the top level and if you need a reason to have a pop at Emery you don’t need to start making ridiculous imaginary reasons to do it.

    You want a reason to have a pop at Emery it’s called Granit Xhaka. A player who seems to suck ability and talent out of other players around him. If this ability could be made to affect opposition players he’d be fucking amazing unfortunately it only seems to affect players on our side.

  20. Graham62

    It’s incredible on here how some posters STILL don’t get it with Ozil.

    If Ozil played 10 games in a row, how many of those would he actually turn up for? One or two at the most? Based on his general attitude and demeanor we just know it wouldn’t be more than that.

    On top of this, how can we accommodate someone who has openly undermined his own manager? Irrespective of Emery’s handling of the situation, Ozil is a massive liability whatever way you look at things.

    He is too much of a risk.

  21. Graham62

    No desire.
    No commitment.
    No fight.
    No physicality.
    No intensity.
    No interest.
    No belief.
    No point!

    Welcome to Ozil’s world.

  22. Valentin

    UTarse,

    Have you ever worked on a London trading floor or for an investment bank in a merger and acquisition department?
    I have.
    Because of technology things and the new regulatory climate things are changing on trading floor, traders influence are on the wane.
    That’s why the best traders are now creating their own hedge funds. In those new hedge funds the behaviour can be as bad as the excess of the 80’s and 90’s. The only thing that changed is sexism and racism are tone down, because of the risk of litigation. And once you have lost a lawsuit for those, you are toast in the city.

    Traders may go the way of the dodo in investment bank, However on the merger and acquisition department, rainmakers are still king. Nobody cares about the feeling of the head of the department, just that the rainmakers continue to bring money.

  23. Valentin

    Azed,

    “We already score enough goals to make top 4 but we don’t have a top 4 defence.”

    The stats show that we are at best 8th in term of scoring and at best 8th in term of conceding, but we according to you we are a top 4.
    On current form, the fact that we are currently 3rd is just a temporary aberation. Once we have met Leicester, ManCity, Chelsea, Wolves, West Ham, our position will be a better reflection of our form.

  24. azed

    “The stats show that we are at best 8th in term of scoring and at best 8th in term of conceding, but we according to you we are a top 4.”

    Valentin

    Only 5 teams have scored more than us.

  25. Gentlebris

    Bamford goes on and on about the first half against Bournemouth so much you would think we blew Bournemouth away in those moments.

    A good propagandist this guy.

  26. Luteo Guenreira

    The flow of the conversation always turns to Emery vs Ozil for some reason, and I can never fully comprehend why so many see it in that dynamic. It’s not Emery vs Ozil we should be concerned about, it’s Arsenal vs anyone that may be a hindrance to the most efficient progress of our club. It’s not unfathomable that both belong on the same side of the coin, I don’t understand why they are being constantly pitted against each other as if one is the solution over the other.

  27. Gentlebris

    ‘If Ozil played 10 games in a row, how many of those would he actually turn up for? One or two at the most? Based on his general attitude and demeanor we just know it wouldn’t be more than that.’

    Ozil has always behaved in such ways, or have you ever seen a fired up all action Ozil in arsenal colors? Yet behind Henry and Fabregas he has made the most assists here. A coach got that out of Ozil despite his obvious lukewarm attitudes. But now a coach who registered two shots on goal at home against Bournemouth would rather keep Ozil out of the match day squad.

    I don’t have time for Ozil too, but we are playing so so poorly that you must realize we don’t have a team which keeps Ozil out on merit.

  28. Graham62

    The fact of the matter is we are in 3rd, playing shite, without Ozil.

    Who’s to say we’d be any better off with Ozil?

    Remember, we would be playing with a man short.

  29. Bamford10

    Gentlebris

    I haven’t gone “on and on” about anything. I have simply stated that our pressing was excellent in the first half of that match and that any honest observer who re-watches it will agree.

    As for being a “propagandist,” this would be you, mate, the guy who keeps repeating the “two shots on target” stat when we in fact had 12 shots in that game, only 4 shots fewer than City had against the same team. You are doing this because you’re a virulent Emery-outer and you want to make the strongest case you can against him. To do so, you are selecting and presenting stats in a way that supports your agenda-driven narrative.

    In contrast, I am doing no such thing. Yes, I have a perspective, but it’s a fairly moderate one. I am not a big believer in Emery but I do think he is a reasonably competent manager who is doing a reasonably competent job with the team at the moment. Where you distort things to push an agenda, I simply make arguments that I think are reasonable.

    So, no.

  30. Gentlebris

    Bamford,

    Two shots on target is fact, we pressed very well in the first half is your opinion. I can repeat a factual statement many times and it will remain factual. But when you go to town with your opinion and try to force it down other peoples’ throat as fact, you become a propagandist.

  31. Gentlebris

    ‘The fact of the matter is we are in 3rd, playing shite, without Ozil.’

    We are third because teams that should be ahead of us are having problems at the moment, those teams are sure to wake up at some point. We were third 8 games to the end of the season last term but now we play in Europa.

  32. azed

    “We are third because teams that should be ahead of us are having problems at the moment, those teams are sure to wake up at some point. ”

    Gentlebris
    Wenger played Ozil and still finished 6th….. I await your excuse for this?

    Its funny how you guys make excuses for other teams.
    Care to explain what problems those teams are having?

  33. Freddie Ljungberg

    Gentlebris

    We have the biggest scope for improvement though of all the teams around us.

    75% of our first choice defence hasn’t played yet but are now fit/almost fit, Saka/Martinelli/Nelson/Pepe/Willock/Ceballos are all adapting to the league/senior football, that’s pretty much all outlr creative players.
    Lacazette has been missing the last few games, he’s back after the break.

    All of that will improve us much more defensively and offensively than a has been Ozil that the club is trying to get rid of.

    If only Emery stumbled on realising Xhaka is shite as well that’s another level we have to go up, hopefully Raul and Edu has something lined up for January on that front.

  34. Graham62

    Mindless morons pretending to be England supporters.

    The Czech authorities have my approval to lock them up and take away their passports.

    Name and shame these idiots.

    We complain about racism and this lot ruin it all.

  35. Luteo Guenreira

    A man walks into a bar. The bartender asks “Why the long face?”

    The man replies “I just found out my wife is sleeping with another man. I’ve decided I’m going to drink myself to death.”

    The bartender looks shocked and says “I’m sorry to hear but I can’t help you kill yourself.”

    The man asks “Well what would you do in my situation?”

    The bartender puffs himself up a bit and says “If I found out a guy was sleeping with my wife I wouldn’t sit around feeling sorry for myself, I’d kill the guy.”

    The man jumps up from his stool and shouts “That’s a great idea! Thanks!” and runs out of the bar.

    A couple hours goes by and the bartender is starting to get nervous when the man walks back into the bar with a smile on his face.

    “So did you really kill the guy?” The bartender asks nervously.

    “No,” the man answered, “But I did sleep with your wife.”

  36. Luteo Guenreira

    Dave was bragging to his boss one day, “You know, I know everyone there is to know. Just name someone, anyone, and I know them.”

    Tired of his boasting, his boss called his bluff, “OK, Dave, how about Tom Cruise?”

    “No dramas boss, Tom and I are old friends, and I can prove it.” So Dave and his boss fly out to Hollywood and knock on Tom Cruise’s door, and Tom Cruise shouts,

    “Dave! What’s happening? Great to see you! Come on in for a beer!”

    Although impressed, Dave’s boss is still skeptical. After they leave Cruise’s house, he tells Dave that he thinks him knowing Cruise was just lucky.

    “No, no, just name anyone else,” Dave says.

    “Queen Elizabeth,” his boss quickly retorts.

    “Yup,” Dave says, “Old buddies, let’s fly out to England,” and off they go.

    At the palace, the Queen spots Dave on the tour and motions him and his boss over, saying, “Dave, what a surprise, I was just on my way to a meeting, but you and your friend come on in and let’s have some tea first and catch up.”

    Well, the boss is very shaken by now but still not totally convinced. After they leave the palace grounds he expresses his doubts to Dave, who again implores him to name anyone else.

    “Pope Francis,” his boss replies.

    “Sure!” says Dave. “I’ve known the Pope for years.” So off they fly to the Vatican.

    Dave and his boss are assembled with the masses at the Vatican’s St. Peter’s Square when Dave says, “This will never work. I can’t catch the Pope’s eye among all these people. Tell you what, I know all the guards so let me just go upstairs and I’ll come out on the balcony with the Pope.” He disappears into the crowd headed towards the Vatican.

    Sure enough, half an hour later Dave emerges with the Pope on the balcony, but by the time Dave returns, he finds that his boss has had a heart attack and is surrounded by paramedics.

    Making his way to his boss’ side, Dave asks him, “What happened?”

    His boss looks up and says, “It was the final straw… you and the Pope came out on to the balcony and the man next to me said, ‘Who the fuck is that on the balcony with Dave?’

  37. Danialtos

    I saw someone here bring Vivienne Midiema to the ozil conversation.The highest Dutch female goalscorer of all time has more balls than ozil,she is actually really good….Messi is the best player in the world,even if he doesn’t train he is the first name on the team sheet….Neymar,well,this myth that emery had some kind of bust up with neymar is just that,a myth….they were actually good….neymar scored I think almost 30 goals with him at Psg and I have never seen any bust up

  38. Gentlebris

    ‘75% of our first choice defence hasn’t played yet but are now fit/almost fit, Saka/Martinelli/Nelson/Pepe/Willock/Ceballos are all adapting to the league/senior football, that’s pretty much all outlr creative players.
    Lacazette has been missing the last few games, he’s back after the break.’

    Freddie,

    I agree this would be a natural expectation if we had a proper football coach in charge.

    ‘Wenger played Ozil and still finished 6th….. I await your excuse for this?’

    Azed, you made that sound like Wenger was always sixth with Ozil.

  39. Freddie Ljungberg

    Gentlebris

    Ah, so you’re one of those that belive the manager is what makes a team and the players are just bit part actors?

    Do you also think it’s the same at Barca, Real, Juve, Bayern? PSG? Is it all because of the managers there too or is it because they can afford the best players in the world?

    Of course we’re going to be suspect defensively with a relegation level defence like we have had for the last 10 months, no coach would be able to fix that without replacing AMN, Mustafi, Sok, Kola etc. There’s a reason Klopp and Pep didn’t just put in extra sessions for the existing defenders when they arrived at their clubs and instead bought new players. I’m not saying players can’t improve with coaching but you can’t coach someone above their talent level.

    Almost all of our offensive players are adapting to the league and each other, who in their right mind would expect fluid football from that unit at this moment in time without an agenda?

    Last year we scored more goals because although our attacking players were less talented/had less potential they were all used to plauing in the premier league, it just wasn’t sustainable to keep them long term, now we’re building for the future, have a lot more room to grow with the squad we have and a few additions and we still manage to find ourselves in third. Sure improvement are both needed and expected but at the moment for where our squad is in its development I think we’re doing quite well.

  40. Normski

    Freddy L = Emery apologist

    ‘Ah, so you’re one of those that belive the manager is what makes a team and the players are just bit part actors?’

    A good manager makes a team better than the sum of their parts.

    ‘I’m not saying players can’t improve with coaching but you can’t coach someone above their talent level.’

    That’s exactly what youre saying. That’s what a good coach does you absolute lemon.

    ‘Of course we’re going to be suspect defensively with a relegation level defence like we have had for the last 10 months, no coach would be able to fix that without replacing AMN, Mustafi, Sok, Kola etc’

    Relegation level defence lol. Why don’t we just get in Big Sam or Roy hodgson? They don’t buy expensive replacements in shit teams with shit players. They coach and put in a structure to get the best out of the players they have at their disposal.

    ‘Almost all of our offensive players are adapting to the league and each other, who in their right mind would expect fluid football from that unit at this moment in time without an agenda’

    Fuck off with yet another excuse for this shit football. If the manager allowed the players freedom and didn’t take away the flair from the midfield with a shit defensive set up that doesn’t even protect the back line we may see a bit more going forward.

    ‘I think we’re doing quite well.’

    Cunt. You are the king of the EKBs.

  41. Freddie Ljungberg

    Cuntski

    I don’t care who the manager is, so no, I’m not an apologist for anything.

    Do you think it takes 2-3 months to make a team perform better than the sum of its parts when those are mostly new/inexperienced parts?

    We have shit defenders currently playing for us, if you think differently might I suggest a brain transplant.

    No one can be coached above their level, they can be coached to reach the limit of their level but that’s it. The level of the defenders we have had for the last 10 months is not good enough for a top 10 club in England so why are you expecting them to perform like it?

    So we don’t have players adapting then, almost all our creative players? That’s news to me…

    Ah yes, just go out and express yourselves, maybe Emery didn’t get a copy of Wengers playbook, it worked so well in the last couple of years. Another stable genius you…

  42. Freddie Ljungberg

    Oh, and being 3rd while the new players adapt is by definition doing quite well since the 2 teams above us are much better than we are, saying anything else just makes you a moron.

    The general play leaves a lot to be desired still but there’s every reason to think that will improve in the next couple of months, if not get a new manager. King of ekbs my ass.

  43. bennydevito

    Norm,

    Why can’t you have a debate without insulting people?

    You’re like Champagne Charlie’s Tourette’s stricken brother.

  44. Freddie Ljungberg

    Benny

    Normski/Aubergine doesn’t do debates, he’s just an angry little man screaming into the void, that’s why he’s been banned more times than redtruth. Some people never learn

  45. azed

    Azed, you made that sound like Wenger was always sixth with Ozil.

    Well you make it sound like we are poor defensively because Ozil doesn’t play.

  46. Valentin

    Freddie,

    “No one can be coached above their level”.

    I am sorry but this is a stupid statement. A players level is not a fixed value that cannot be improved.

    What is the point of coaching if not to improve players and team play.

    Improving individual players literally means that their level after coaching is higher than before coaching. That does not necessarily means that the best level has improved (in most case with good coaching it does), but it means that the average level raises. More consistency, less mistakes.
    Anybody who has seen Raheem Sterling play can see the improvements that Pep has made in his shooting technique, movement off the ball. He is consistently performing at a much higher level than at Liverpool.

    But also Good coaches/managers improve overall team play. They find systems that hide individual players weaknesses and elevate their collective strength. They make a team better than the sum of its parts, i.e. the players. The system make them appear to perform at a higher level, because it provide them protection against their weaknesses.

  47. Champagne charlie

    “Well you make it sound like we are poor defensively because Ozil doesn’t play.“

    Quite amazing you’ve went a whole day without understanding a shred of what’s been said about Ozil.

    We’re shit creatively and Ozil is a creative player we could utilise, how you end up in knots from that is beggars belief.

  48. Valentin

    Freddie,

    You are trying to justify your hope that with Tierney and Bellerin everything will be fine. However how come with a better squad (Pepe, Martinelli) we are even worse than last season.
    What new players is he currently bedding in the team that would explain the decrease in quality of Arsenal play?
    The only player who has been used regularly in the EPL who was not there last season is Pepe. Willock and Saka were available, he made the choice of ignoring them.

    Like I stated before, Tierney and Bellerin may make us better, but we still do not control the midfield. How are they going to help on that part of the pitch?

  49. Freddie Ljungberg

    Valentin

    So because Sterling can be coached to reach that level does that mean that AMN also can, He’s a winger after all?

    No, because you can’t be coached above your natural talents, only to maximize it, why is this so hard for people to grasp. I’m not saying coaching can’t improve players, I’m saying players like Mustafi and Kola etc are never going to be world class defenders because they don’t have the talent for it, argue with that all you want, you’d still be wrong.

    I don’t think any amount of coaching drills or systematic tweaks would have significantly improved our current defensive unit, thanks fuck it’s not our first choice back 4 then.

    Any defence containing Mustafi, AMN, Kola, Sok, Luiz, Old Monreal, old Kos will always let you down being too slow and too error prone no matter how well drilled, they’re just not good enough at this level.

    You can get away with temporarliy having 1 player like that in the 4 but when all of them are clowns you’re getting clownish performances.

    If our defensive record improves in the next coulle of months with better individual defenders in it I’ll be shocked, and I would have no problem at all changing manager.

  50. Freddie Ljungberg

    Val

    So because Saka and Willock was playing u23 football last season for us that means they don’t have to adapt to the PL? Strange logic that.

    Peep and Martinelli are still adapting, so is Ceballos

    Iwobi, Mikhi, Ramsey, Welbeck, Ozil are all either not good enough or inconsistent but all have played in the league for years, it makes a difference.

    I’m not justifying anything, do you not think our defence will be better with Bellerin and Tierney instead of AMN and Kola and Holding instead of Sok/Luiz or are you another that thinks player quality means nothing and it’s the coach controlling every players movements like it’s playstation?

  51. Freddie Ljungberg

    Val

    Where did I say they will help us control the midfield?

    As long as Xhaka play we’re not controlling anything. It could get slightly better though as Willock, Guen and Ceballos improves. Xhaka will still hold us back though. Even if it would leave us with a midfield with the average age of 20-21 we’re still far better off benching our “captain” and that’s all on Emery.

  52. Valentin

    Freddie,

    “I’m saying players like Mustafi and Kola etc are never going to be world class defenders because they don’t have the talent for it, argue with that all you want, you’d still be wrong.”

    Who talked about World class talent?
    I am talking about decent improvement via organisation, instructions. Having a system that makes our players better than they individually are. I am talking about proper coaching.

    Kolasinac was voted in the Bundesliga team of the year, so he can be good in at least one system.
    Mustafi is a playing world cup winning defender, so Low must have seen something in him to convince him to select him ahead of the other thousands of professional German defenders. Find a system that limits his brain fart induced by panic.
    ManUtd won the league with Ashley Young, Phil Jones, Chris Smalling in defense. Does anybody think that they were world class? No but Red Nose knew how to extract the maximum out of his players.
    Conte made Victor Moses look like a world beater with his system.
    Our setup is so shambolic that we top the league of penalty conceded since August 2018. David Luiz conceded the same number of League penalties in the few game with us than he did during his entire career at Chelsea. Our midfield is porous and offers no protection to our defense.
    Do you genuinely believe that Pep, Klopp, Conte, Allegro would not get more out of the squad than Emery?

  53. Valentin

    Freddie,

    “because Saka and Willock was playing u23 football last season for us that means they don’t have to adapt to the PL”

    No. Last season I was arguing that Emery was misusing the squad by not giving minutes to youngsters in easy or already won game.
    I remember you and a few lambasting me for suggesting that Willock, Saka and Nketiah should be given minutes. What was the point of giving time to Aubameyang against Fulham when the game was already won?

    This season, the Aston Villa game turn on its head when Willock and Torreira came in to play in midfield with Guendouzi. The same uplift may have occurred if he had tried.

    In short You are using Emery mistakes of last season as excuses for this season.

  54. Freddie Ljungberg

    “Kolasinac was voted in the Bundesliga team of the year, so he can be good in at least one system.
    Mustafi is a playing world cup winning defender, so Low must have seen something in him to convince him to select him ahead of the other thousands of professional German defenders. Find a system that limits his brain fart induced by panic.”

    They’ve both been shit most of their time in the PL though, some players can’t handle the pace and intensity, those two are good examples of that, we still have a couple others in the squad that the same can be said about.

    It’s quite possible that the defence would improve under another coach, not significantly though, not with the players we have had for the last 10 months, they really are that bad and I can’t wait to see the back of most of them, same as any manager coming in would.

    Next month we will only have to see maximum 1 of the current unit getting regular playing time, next season none, that’s how good they are so why the need to harp on about it or expect any sort of performances from a bunch of duds with no futures at the club? It’s pointless imo and no judge of the managers capabilities of organizing a defence. If he can’t do it with better players then boot him out and get someone in that can, simple. No need to rewrite reality and scream bloody murder every day, he’s not Wenger and he won’t overstay his welcome if he doesn’t get the team to perform.

  55. Freddie Ljungberg

    “No. Last season I was arguing that Emery was misusing the squad by not giving minutes to youngsters in easy or already won game.
    I remember you and a few lambasting me for suggesting that Willock, Saka and Nketiah should be given minutes. What was the point of giving time to Aubameyang against Fulham when the game was already won?This season, the Aston Villa game turn on its head when Willock and Torreira came in to play in midfield with Guendouzi. The same uplift may have occurred if he had tried.In short You are using Emery mistakes of last season as excuses for this season.”

    The sheer arrrogance in that post is astounding but not really surprising since you always have to be right and you’ve had a personal grudge match going on against Emery since he was appointed.

    Just because you think some youngsters are ready to play with the seniors, in the league, doesn’t mean they are, you understand that right? Right?

    And even if they got a couple of sub appearances last season still wouldn’t mean that they’d be fully adapted now.

  56. Valentin

    Freddie,

    You are now arguing that Saka and Willock were not ready to play last season.
    That is a very convenient lie that keep getting repeated, yet that has been debunked by Arsenal academy staff. They said that there was little point in playing Saka, Willock, Nketiah and Nelson in the U23 last season because they were way too good for that level.

    There is a gap between U23 and Arsenal first team, Yet this season in the absence of Lacazette Saka is an automatic starter. Emery is now comparing Willock with Ramsey.
    That massive jump from U23 to EPL has not been made in less than 2 months. Not ready in May, starter in August!?

    The reality is that They were ready for some minutes last season, Emery did not have the courage to play them. Last season I was not advocating to play them at every game but for them to be given minutes. They would be at a more advanced stage of their development if they has been given the necessary minutes. Trying now to argue against that is just beyond ridiculous.

  57. Freddie Ljungberg

    Val

    What are you arguing here exactly? That you were right and Emery was wrong? Whoopdie fuckingdo, give yourself a pat on the back and order a trophy for yourself, no one else cares.

    I don’t care who the manager is, I think the overemphasis on the importance of managers are so fucking boring it’s unreal, that’s why I don’t bother talking about it and focus on the playing staff, an area that has been significantly overhauled and now looks much better for the future if not right now, that makes me hapoy as an Arsenal fan, all the Emery in or out talks bores the shit out of me, I’m just not interested one way or the other as long as I can see that the club as a whole are doing the right things and are moving us forward after years and years of firts stagnation and then a slide backwards.
    I never expected that process to be quick or lack growing pains. I endured many years of the slide downwards so I can be patient while we dig us out of that hole if I see that we’re trying to act like a proper football club again, that’s it.

  58. Freddie Ljungberg

    “You are now arguing that Saka and Willock were not ready to play last season.”

    No, I’m really not, I’m arguing that you don’t have a scooby if they are ready or not no matter how smug you are about it, there’s a big difference there.

  59. China1

    Bad news Pierre

    Raul has come out and defended emery for not picking emery saying ‘emery picks players who work hard in training’

    Ozil has also just put his London house on sale.

    Obviously from a personal perspective I think that’s brilliant news but I do have concerns that we lack bodies in midfield.

    In AM we don’t have many outright options though even those we do I guess emery will sometimes overlook them and use torreira there instead – which is weird, but that’s what I expect to happen

  60. Nelson

    Ceballos is the only one who played against Standard Liege and Bournemouth. He is now reported having problems with the muscle. Just imagine that if Emery is not careful, he could lose Ceballos for a long period of times.

  61. Bamford10

    Valentin

    “ However how come with a better squad (Pepe, Martinelli) we are even worse than last season?”

    What metric says we’re “worse than last season”? Your personal (indeed, agenda-driven) opinion? Thursday nights have been a pleasure to watch and we’re third in the league. Martinelli is one of the hottest young players in world football. As for Pepe, he has yet to impress, but contrary to your bogus assertions, this has nothing to with Unai Emery.

    Further, Maitland-Niles, Mustafi and Kolasinac are poor defenders. That you are trying to make hay out of Emery not succeeding with them is laughable. Sokratis was our best defender last season — that’s how bad our defense was — and yet his limitations are obvious to all this season. He was our best defender!

    As for the notion that we missed out on 4th or the Europa title because Emery didn’t play 17-year-old Saka or 19-year-old Willock as much as you would’ve liked, this is equally laughable. Neither of these players at those tender ages would have made the difference you are attributing to them.

    Further, as good a young player as he is, Saka isn’t a “guaranteed starter”. When Laca comes back, Saka will likely go to the bench. Further, while he had a decent showing against Bournemouth, is he really proving decisive in the PL at the moment? I don’t know about that. He looks promising and he’s been decisive in the EL. Let’s slow down on the hype train, though. Unless I’m forgetting something, his contributions in the PL have been modest.

    As for Willock, he’s a good young prospect, but the only reason we’re talking about him is because our midfield is so poor. It’s not like he’d start in Liverpool’s or City’s or Tottenham’s or Chelsea’s midfield. We need him because Xhaka is so poor, not because he’s one of the better midfielders in the PL. If we had a decent midfield, he’d be a sub at this point and nothing more.

    You’ve said a number of other things that are nonsense, but the above is all I have time to deal with at the moment.

  62. azed

    “Quite amazing you’ve went a whole day without understanding a shred of what’s been said about Ozil.

    We’re shit creatively and Ozil is a creative player we could utilise, how you end up in knots from that is beggars belief.”

    Quite amazing you’ll turn logic on its head just to bash Emery.
    Arsenal 2018/19
    Goals scored 73 (3rd highest in the league)
    Big chance created
    1) Iwobi
    2) Kolasinac
    2) Mhkitaryan.

    2019/20
    Goals scored 13 ( joint 5th)
    Big chances created 14 (joint 4th in the league)

    The data from last season and this season doesn’t show we miss Ozil’s creativity.

    CC

    Please show me data that shows we miss Ozil’s creativity or you are just talking bs.

  63. azed

    I have said it all day, we don’t have an attacking problem, we have a defensive problem.

    The same folks blaming Emery today are the same folks that were shouting Emery hasn’t improved the defence, now they are calling for a player that does nothing defensively..

    Talk about an agenda.

  64. Tony

    Don
    Your Freddie L IQ challenge yesterday was the funniest thing I’ve seen on here since Pierre became Mr. Angry with #Neymargate beeng a close 2nd.

    FYI you can’t live in Thailand long term without money, especially in the main tourism areas. Those who live only on pensions generally live in villages and struggle with very meagre lives.

    Let me see where would I live an idillic, beautiful tropical island or Surrey?

    If you can’t work that out don’t bother doing an IQ test because your score will probably scar you for life.

    Now would be a good time to let us know what degree you have, what was your Master’s major? That way you can dispense with this IQ tosh.

    There’s a famous saying that, ‘where there’s muck there’s brass’ clearly you know all about that with your business unblocking drains and toilets empire where you can’t afford private medical care for your anal issues. You waited for the NHS and LeGrove posters to help you.

    That showed real intelligence, right? Wrong!, But the reality is you live in a paradoxical world that rarely makes sense unless you are insulting people, such as Marko and Freddie L.

    You and your pal Normski ( are you one and the same or is Normski Pierre’s alter ego?)

    Who knows or really cares? I doubt many here do.

    Just because you work in sewerage conditions and drainage: plumbing try to rise above the crap and not talk absolute shit and bigotry as you usually do.

    Stick with your pal Normski he level of insults are from the same playbook you use.

  65. azed

    Ozil does not deserve to start before Ceballos or Willock.
    Ozil can’t not play as a midfielder in a 4-3-3 which is the preferred formation of the manager in a 4-3-3.

    On the wings, Ozil does not deserve to start before Saka or Martinelli.

    The same folks who say Emery plays people based on seniority rather than form are the same folks that want Ozil played based on seniority and form Ozil showed 3 seasons ago.

  66. Tony

    Why do some posters here want Ozil to play?

    Other than least season’s Leicester game,His last decent gamer for us, Ozil has been poor in attitude and performances prompting Him to be subbed out of necessity rather than spite by Emery.

    Ozil’s stats don’t lie unless massaged by Pierre: the sage of football and and top number 1 student of the game as he so often lets us know that we all don’t have a clue, where Pierre’s pearls of Ozil football wisdom blinds us all.

    If Pedro had a Troll Of The Season award, Pierre would be such a worthy winner every season.

    The miracle of Ozil rediscovering his past Real Madrid early form is nothing but a pipe dream like winning the Euro lottery!

    Also worth noting that Ozil looks exhausted by about the 60 minute mark in pretty much all his starts. Probably why Emery wants more out of Ozil in training.

    I don’t believe Ozil wants to go to Turkey or America because of the infamous hold up, more that he has a brand to protect.

    As for Emery? He has enough talent and players willing to give all for the badge in training and on the pitch to qualify for CL.

    The question is does Emery have the managerial nous to get the best out of the squad now he pretty much has a full squad to pick his best X1?

    We’ll know by January.

  67. Bojangles

    There are a couple of things that have been lacking at Arsenal since the days of Viera; leadership and character.

    Özil is the antithesis of both as is, albeit to a slightly lesser degree, Xhaka. Yet we have them both making our captains list. This says more about our squad than it does Özil and Xhaka.

    Hopefully Edu and Raul will have these traits foremost in mind when considering future prospects.

    These qualities are there to be seen at a young age. WIlkins 18 when he captained Chelsea, Vieira 19 with Cannes, Terry 21 Chelsea and Adams 22 at Arsenal. Maybe we are seeing these qualities emerge from Guendouzi.

  68. Graham62

    Tony

    Goodmorning.

    All true.

    Ozil is no longer worth discussing.

    As for Pierre, I personally don’t hold anything against him. Infact his contributions often help to make the le-grove tick. Banter and disagreements are the core of social media sites like this, even when some posters are clearly deluded.

    RUGBY.

    Scotland and Japan must be played somewhere at some stage. Would be a major travesty if it didn’t go ahead.

    Cheers.

  69. Pierre

    Graham
    It’s all about planting the seed and then watch Le Grove go in to meltdown .

    Let’s be honest , other than stroller , just about everyone who posts on Le Grove is , by definition, a troll .

    Talking of deluded, bojangles….” ozil has offered himself to Barcelona ” ….and he believes that shit, brilliant..

  70. Tony

    Good morning Graham

    I’m ok with Pierre when he intelligently posts tactics etc.

    Problem is I just skim past his posts because he normally trolls for reaction, I see the name and scroll on. Ditto Normski and now Don.

    Banter is good as long as it’s not made personal, which I’ve done in the past to retaliate, but now just can’t be bothered unless the banter is part of the football discussion.

    Lively banter as is normally practiced by RH, Marko, Charlie, Freddie L and LG plus similar posters are fun to read when I get the time.

    So many good posters here in the guise of Jamie, CA, N5, Bojangles, yourself, Bob N19, ES and so many more make this blog what it is: the best Arsenal blog.

    Have a good weekend Graham

    Rugby
    Totally agree the match should be played. Scotland are not helping themselves threatening to take legal action.

    If I’m honest Scotland didn’t take their chances whereas Japan has played brilliantly with their very fast line speeds (almost All Black like).

    The Scotland Japan game was one I’ve been looking forward to as it’s evenly matched and should be a belter.

  71. Bojangles

    Pierre

    “Talking of deluded, bojangles….” ozil has offered himself to Barcelona ” ….and he believes that shit, brilliant..”

    Go back and look at my post again. My only input is “On Özil”, and you managed to derive my belief in the article from that?

    Only one of us is deluded. Happy to say it isn’t me.

  72. Pierre

    Tony

    Talking of Pearl’s of wisdom ….here’s a cracker.

    “Also worth noting that Ozil looks exhausted by about the 60 minute mark in pretty much all his starts. Probably why Emery wants more out of Ozil in training.”

    It’s common knowledge to those of us who understand the game , that to get match fit a player needs to play in matches , hence the term ” match fit”.

    There endeth your lesson for today Today .

  73. Pierre

    Bojangles
    Are you saying you don’t believe it …in that case, why post a link that is meaningless and futile , that’s normally Tony’s department.

  74. Bojangles

    I posted it because it was of interest to Arsenal supporters. I imagine the majority of commenters here are Arsenal supporters.

    There may be some truth in it or it may just be a concocted report. My belief or otherwise is not important here.

  75. UTarse

    Valentin

    “UTarse,Have you ever worked on a London trading floor or for an investment bank in a merger and acquisition department?”

    Yes I have, for 22 years.

  76. Pierre

    Bojangles
    Much more believable though the headline is misleading.

    ” Torreira admits frustration ” and then the first quote fromTorreira reads

    “I don’t know whether I’d say it’s frustrating,”

    So maybe the headline should read

    “Torreira doesn’t admit frustration “

  77. Bojangles

    Pierre

    Agreed it is a little misleading but “Torreira doesn’t admit frustration “
    is a little cumbersome for a headline… also it doesn’t quite grab your attention and websites and media in general are about getting the clicks so to speak.

  78. Bojangles

    Pierre

    This headline is much more truthful.

    “Arsenal’s Lucas Torreira denies anger with Unai Emery over Gunners bench role.”

  79. Alexanderhenry

    I can’t see mourihno taking the arsenal job.

    He has a proven track record of success when he’s able to spend more than anyone else and an equally proven track record of failure when he hasn’t.

    Arsenal are clearly going for a youth priority long term.
    That is not Jose’s shtick.

  80. Danialtos

    How are you all,I can see the mood on Legrove is as lively as ever…the greatest marathoner in the world and my fellow
    country man,Eliud Kipchoge has just become the first man to run under 2 hours.Congrats to him and bless you all

  81. Graham62

    Danialtos

    Great achievement by Kipchoge.

    It was like watching a computerised running game though.

    Wow! The technology involved is just incredible.

    You can’t even drive a car 26.2 miles around most cities/ towns in the UK.

    Phenomenal achievement.

  82. Pierre

    Everton’s Michael Keane..

    What is he doing in an England shirt , never rated him.

    Southgate needs to show him the door pretty sharpish.

  83. Graham62

    Had a feeling England would lose last night.

    So many players looking flat in the league, not surprising in didn’t come together.

    Harry Maguire struggling big time.

  84. Valentin

    UTarse,

    Me too and for longer.
    You are now telling me that you have never seen a fight on a trading floor?
    That must have been the quietest trading floor in the world.

  85. Valentin

    The report mentions that they have asked him if he was fine with a reduced role . So that means that Arsenal was going to favour Xhaka, Guendouzi and that He will have to share the last midfield position with Ceballos and Willock.

    Why not accept the Italian offer of 60 millions was the case? Because next summer he will be worth less. It is a strange decision, unless they have a long term target who was unattainable this summer.

  86. UTarse

    Valentin,
    You weren’t referring to a “fight on a trading floor”.

    You like changing the narrative don’t you Valentin ? Your original comment was bullshit and I called you out on it.

  87. terraloon

    So eight games in and third place and yes the table doesn’t lie but the truth is after 38 games and other than glimpses I really can’t see much to shout about.

    Some talk about chances created or other stats but let’s just focus on like for like performances this season compared with last. The Villa game aside ( they weren’t in the PL last season)
    2018/19. 2019/20
    Points. 16. 12
    Scored. 18. 10
    Against. 12. 9

    Improvement?

    As an aside Chelsea have 2 more points this season than against the same opposition last season ( ignoring their Sheffield Utd and Norwich results)

  88. Valentin

    Bojangles,

    I don’t see leadership quality in Guendouzi yet, he is way too emotional for that now.

    What I see is willpower. Sheer hate of losing and willingness to leave everything on the pitch to win.
    However he also show his emotion too easily. Look desperate when we concede a goal. He needs to learn to keep his emotions in check when things so not go his way while still keep the fire .
    Teammates don’t want a hot head who cries when things don’t go our way. Captain should be the one teammates turn to in stormy games.

    I mentioned in a previous comment that there are three type of leadership: the taskmaster, the talisman by example and the mental psychological guide. A good captain should be two out three of those. Right now he just lead by example. Xhaka is also only one the taskmaster.

    Guendouzi needs some time to learn to calm down, so he can also be a guide for people when there is trouble. Right now Aubameyang and Lacazette have more experience in guiding the team in choppy water. They don’t get booked for dissent or stirring things on a regular basis. Once he master that, he can also focus on being a good taskmaster, but Learning to be a taskmaster is the easiest part to learn.

    Zidane started as talisman by example, then became more experienced and more vocal before being named France captain. That is a gradual progression and right Guendouzi is not ready for the role. That would do him a disservice to talk about captaincy.

  89. Graham62

    Valentin

    He shows all the emotions that have been missing at Arsenal Football Club these past ten years.

    He is captaincy material down the line.

    There’s no way he could have played under Wenger.

  90. Valentin

    Marc,

    There were talk that Italian clubs were interested in him. Some newspaper reported that Arsenal had turned down two offers from Italian clubs including one that would have totalled €60 millions with all bonus and add-ons.

  91. Graham62

    “The sheer hate of losing”

    He would have been too much for Wenger.

    “Stay focused Matteo and accept things like this happen”

  92. Valentin

    Graham62,

    Emotion was never an issue under Wenger. Player Quality and organisation was in his latter years.

    Cesc has so much emotion he threw pizza at red Nose.

    Gallas was one of the most emotional captain of Arsenal . That was also the reason why that made him a bad captain. Against Birmingham after Clichy conceded a last minute penalty, he was so overwhelmed by emotion he just sat there, instead of guiding the team.

  93. Marc

    Valentin

    Mate there is no way we turned down bids equalling 60 million euros for Torreira in the summer. Firstly I’d say one of the clubs you mention is AC Milan who are in all sorts of financial trouble. Secondly you’re saying we turned down a bid for a player the manager doesn’t fancy when we had limited funds to play with.

    DO NOT BELIEVE WHAT YOU READ IN THE PAPERS OR ON THE INTERNET ABOUT TRANSFERS!!!

  94. Valentin

    Graham,

    “Stay focused Matteo and accept things like this happen”

    I don’t see anything wrong with those words.
    You want player who stay focus on the job rather than be consumed by rage, revenge, despair. Focus on winning the game instead of stewing in your sense of injustice, unfairness, bad luck.

    During the invincible run Arsenal was losing to Middlesbrough, the team and Henry were so angry that it drove them to win the game. Same thing this season against Aston Villa.
    Compare that with Spurs at Chelsea the season Leicester won the league. They has such a sense of injustice that they imploded. They focused on petty revenge and grievance instead of winning the game.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/amp/football/42219327

  95. Valentin

    Marc,

    There may be a valid reasons why we turn down offers for Torreira.

    * We have a replacement target in mind who was not ready or available at the time.

    * The payment scheduling was not something that benefited us. Back loaded payment does nothing for us in the short term.

    * the offer came too late in the transfer window to let us change the overall plan.

    * The manager may have decided to test different players combination, but had no guarantee that they would be a success. Keeping Torreira was just a security blanket.

  96. Graham62

    Valentin

    Maybe so but at Arsenal over the years the acceptance of failure became the norm.

    A true winner and leader hates to lose( at anything!)

    I love Guendouzis attitude. It is refreshing to see him gesticulate when things go wrong, rather than stand hands on hips, which has been the case at Arsenal for far too long.

    Whatever some may feel on here, Wenger was not a born winner. If he was, he would have walked long before he was eventually pushed.

    At least Guendouzi will be able to develop his positive mindset, even under Unai.

  97. Marc

    Displaying an emotion such as anger in a football match is not a bad thing. What is important is how you channel the anger.

    With what I’ve seen so far this season Guendozi is maturing as a player and has shown some leadership qualities.

  98. Graham62

    Think about TH14, PV, DB10, Fabregas etc were all born winners. Why do you think they wanted out?

    That’s it, they’d had enough.

  99. Champagne charlie

    Azed

    You create a ridiculously narrow metric for measuring creativity and then ask for proof, you’re absolutely against an idea it’s as simple as that.

    Last season we were third highest scorers as you love to go on about, but I’ve doused that with the relevant context and the perspective changes on that mega stat. Next you drop big chances created as if that’s the only measure of a players creativity.

    If you actually watch us play there’s not a sensible person that concludes we Le chance after chance and dominate matches in this regard. We simply don’t. For you to attack the call for the manager to utilise his squad better and actually include Ozil in some capacity, given our lacklustre creative output, is nothing but a militant defence of the manager.

    There is literally no harm to be done to the side with Ozil’s inclusion.

  100. Marc

    “There is literally no harm to be done to the side with Ozil’s inclusion.”

    Other than effectively playing with 10 men for 80 or so minutes every match he’s in.

  101. Cesc Appeal

    Marc

    Agreed, no way we received a £57 Million bid for Torreira…we’d have taken it. More than doubling your money 12 months after paying £26 Million for him, especially a player the manager apparently has reservations about.

    The most concrete rumour I read said because Milan are skint they were offering nothing for him in the first year and then staggered payments from next summer onwards, and again the total fee was like £38 Million or something.

    I think watching England last night was quite interesting, Rice and Henderson just did not work at all and when your midfield doesn’t work it turns a good team to shit. England are usually fast paced and exciting and they looked average on the ball and poor off it last night.

    It reminded me so much of watching Arsenal, a midfield that is good for nothing and relies on individual performances (usually Guendouzi) to actually function.

  102. Marc

    Cesc

    Yeah there were rumours about a 2 year loan with a fee then an option – not even compulsory fee to buy but nothing got close to 60 million euros.

  103. Cesc Appeal

    Marc

    Yeah because the joke in the summer was as this is Gazidis at Milan this is what other teams must have felt like for years when Arsenal negotiated with them.

  104. Champagne charlie

    “Other than effectively playing with 10 men for 80 or so minutes every match he’s in.“

    You’re right Marc, we’d lose all our defensive solidity with Ozil……

    7 games, 9 goals conceded without him. Can’t disrupt that fortress.

  105. Valentin

    Marc,

    I thought that it was a €7 millions loan fee per year for 2 years and then an buying fee of €35 and with €10 millions of add-ons if they won the league and qualify for Champion’s League.

  106. Marc

    CC

    I’m not arguing that there aren’t issues but if you think Ozil is the solution to anything at Arsenal at the moment you need to dial down the medication a little.

    The 2 major problems are no natural full backs – should be sorted once Bellerin and Tierney are back and even more so the lack of balance in midfield. Drop Xhaka put Torreira in as DM and then have 2 of Guendozi, Willock and Ceballos to make up the numbers. It would be a young / inexperienced midfield and there would be mistakes but that’s the best option out of the players we currently have.

  107. Cesc Appeal

    Marc

    I mean I kind of feel Gazidis owes us on that one.

    He’s the tosser that put the giant sopping flange on £350 000 a week.

    We all know how this one goes though, we will be paying £175 000 a week to Ozil for the next year and a half while he plays in some dead rubber league and certain people here hail his stats from the HIbsjdgysgkaakhs League where he’s banging them in against GKs who were fitting his TV the evening before.

  108. Marc

    Valentin

    There were all sorts of numbers quoted in different stories I can’t remember the details. For starters Milan talking about winning the league in a transfer deal and attaching a figure to it would be laughed out of the room.

  109. Marc

    Cesc

    If you work on Arsenal having 45,000 season ticket holders and the average cost is £1,500 then Ozil is taking about a third of all season ticket revenue.

    I have no problem with a player earning that amount of money I have an issue with him having the immune system of the boy in the bubble.

  110. Chris

    I think Roy Keane was spot on about Danny Rose last night. One of the most overrated players today. Nobody covered themselves in glory last night but he was especially poor, looked like he couldn’t care less.

  111. Bojangles

    Maguire is another overrated defender especially in light of his price tag.

    Says a lot about English defenders in general when Keane and Maguire are our central pairing.

  112. Pierre

    “Banter is good as long as it’s not made personal, which I’ve done in the past to retaliate, but now just can’t be bothered”

    3 hours prior to Tony’s assertion that he cant be bothered with banter that’s personal

    He wrote this about Un.

    “where you can’t afford private medical care for your anal issues.”

    If that’s not personal then I don’t know what is.

  113. Cesc Appeal

    ‘I have no problem with a player earning that amount of money I have an issue with him having the immune system of the boy in the bubble.’

    And the spine of a jellyfish.

    Will always be one of the most ridiculous decisions in football.

  114. Pierre

    Slightly embarrassing being an Arsenal supporter these days .

    We had years of childish abuse aimed at our previous manager, and now he’s departed the obsession has turned to Ozil , and when he’s departed I’m sure they will up the anti on xhaka

    Pretty sad if you ask me …

  115. Marc

    Cesc

    It amazes me that all of the tactical experts on here can’t see how easy it is to negate Ozil’s contribution in a match. A heavy tackle in the first 5 minutes and that’s him gone from the match.

  116. Marc

    Pierre

    It’s not sad it’s the path to success. Wenger’s gone, get rid of Ozil, Mustafi and Xhaka and we’re getting back to where we should be.

  117. Bob N16

    Marc, 12.17 I agree completely.

    Two ways at looking at our season so far:
    – a decent amount of points after 8 games, two of our main rivals 4 & 6 pts behind us
    – there hasn’t been one game where you can say that we’ve played really well, some halves have been terrible, GD of +1

    What are our prospects:
    – with defensive reinforcements available our team shows real improvement together with improved integration from new players Pepe, Ceballos, youngsters, Emery gets his combinations right
    – our team continues to concede too many goals and our midfield continues to disfunction, our new players still look off and our youngsters flatter to deceive.

    A bit black and white I know. For me it’s mostly about jettisoning Xhaka and allowing Torreira to play in his preferred position, ratting in front of the back four. With Holding, Tiernay and Bellerin joining up with Luiz, we have a the makings of a half decent defence, particularly with Torreira in front. Guendouzi can work hard in the middle with Ceballos creating in front of him. Willock can fit in wherever. With this line up I could even see Ozil contributing but maybe there is a determined campaign to convince him and his agent to find a new club in January.

    A good mate of mine, contrarian that he is, believes Xhaka is not captain of Switzerland of Arsenal by accident and how can we know more than coaches who are paid vast sums and are much more experienced and knowledgeable than mere punters? It does beg the question, how does a coach see things so differently from the vast majority of ‘experts’ and supporters, a coach who is very close to being the top of his profession?

  118. Bob N16

    Pierre ‘the obsession has turned to Ozil’, you’ve nailed that statement at the very least. Complaining about people obsessing about Ozil(all be it negatively) and at the same time constantly posting about him yourself. Classic.

  119. Cesc Appeal

    Marc

    A lot of them don’t want to. Most of the Ozil defenders for are lifetime members of the pro-Wenger rabble so it’s not really shocking.

    Both Ozil and Xhaka are system breakers, you put them in the team and you need to change everything around them to make them work and they simply are not worth it. I will say at least Xhaka looks like he wants to play and give it a go, I’ve never seen such barefaced lethargy from a ‘sportsman’ in my life as I see with Ozil.

    The club is doing exactly the right thing and if it works and he’s driven out of the club in January then they have done well. £175 000 a week for another 18 months is better than £350 000 for another 18 months and even if he is in Turkey he will be more use to Arsenal there financially than he would be in terms of football if he was here.

    The Europa League and League Cup have given us glimpses of the kind of set up we should be aiming for in the years to come and players like Ozil just don’t belong in the modern game anymore. Guardiola wouldn’t have him, Klopp wouldn’t, Pochettino wouldn’t, I don’t even think someone like Rodgers at Leicester would have him.

  120. Marc

    Bob

    It staggers me. Managers will always have favourites – Fergie had players like John O’Shea but he did a particular job to what you have to assume were strict instructions. Xhaka’s a walking fuck up waiting to happen – most who sit round me are more surprised if he completes a match without making some horrendous cock up and are usually more relaxed in a match if he gets it out of the way early although as I have pointed out that doesn’t mean he can’t manager another.

    What I want someone to tell me is what does Xhaka bring to the team that is better than what others can do?

  121. Pierre

    Marc
    Its embarrassing the absurd lengths that “fans”( and I use that term loosely) will go to discredit our players…

  122. Champagne charlie

    “I’m not arguing that there aren’t issues but if you think Ozil is the solution to anything at Arsenal at the moment you need to dial down the medication a little.“

    No you’re just playing a game of ‘my opinion or you’re an idiot’ whilst ignoring the realities.

    We don’t create, Mesut has made a living off of doing it out of nothing. The whole issue becomes more than it is when folk like you get their back up over players they don’t like.

  123. Marc

    Pierre

    OK so someone who doesn’t attend matches but worships the ground players walk on without any form of objective criticism is more of a fan than someone who attends over 20 matches a season but is pissed off with a couple of poor players?

    I wouldn’t go to Wales if I were you – you’ll get fucked stupid by the locals.

  124. Champagne charlie

    “Both Ozil and Xhaka are system breakers, you put them in the team and you need to change everything around them to make them work and they simply are not worth it“

    Haha that’s a new one, we have system breakers in the squad no wonder Emery hasn’t made us look competent.

  125. Nelson

    Spanish newspaper AS reports that Ceballos had to end training early on Tuesday after having muscular pains and underwent the scan the next day.

    Ceballos is the only player selected to play our last two games. After the interlull, there will be three weeks where we have two games per week. Emery better rotates players carefully to avoid more injuries. It’s good that our squad is deeper this season.

  126. Marc

    CC

    I haven’t been anti Ozil since before we signed him – it’s an opinion I’ve come to after watching several years of lack of application.

    You’re trying to find a stick to beat Emery with. Why pick Ozil he’s not the solution when he doesn’t contribute in any match where there’s even a degree of competition.

    If you want to criticise Emery just go with Xhaka. He’s simply not suitable for the PL.

  127. Pierre

    Marc
    “I wouldn’t go to Wales if I were you – you’ll get fucked stupid by the locals.”

    You lost me there …obviously you have run out of anything sensible to say so you said the first thing that come into your head…