Never liked Monchi anyway

by .

So there we have it, Monchi is over and out. Finito.

He was offered a huge wedge of money to revamp Arsenal and he said no, instead returning back to Sevilla.

Wimp.

Should we read too much into this? I wouldn’t. If he’d picked Everton over us, maybe I’d worry. But he took the plunge, moved abroad, and had a very rough time, so he’s gone back to what he knows. He’s loved in Sevilla, there’s very little expectations there, he knows everyone, and it’s his home.

His reputation from Roma wasn’t good. He sold players for a lot of money, but he didn’t replace with ‘now’ quality, and the local fans were never going to give him enough time to see what the young kids were capable of.

Nzonzi and Pastore, both 29, were his big bet last summer. That’d make my eyes pop out of my head if he did that at Arsenal. Inexcusable.

Arsenal are bigger than Roma, we have higher expectations, we shouldn’t be sad that we’re not hiring in someone who was let go from a contract early. Roma are tight as you like, so things must have gotten bad if they were willing to let him go for zero fee.

Missing out also avoids a Spanish monopoly at the club. Monchi was a sexy name, no doubt, but letting a manager bring in his mate over him reeks of peak-Wenger. If Emery was tanking next December, would he pull the trigger? It’d be tough. I don’t want a boys club at the top at Arsenal. You want people that are making rational decisions based on data.

Now we have to look towards a new Sporting Director. Marc Overmars is clearly a very strong contender. He started at Ajax in 2013, I think it’s fair to say his first cycle will come to an end this summer when Ajax are obliterated by Europe’s vultures. He’s highly qualified. Ajax are buying better players, playing better football, making better decisions with managers, and the youth product is back to churning out proper talent.

There’s also Luis Campos. The man tasked with making Monaco an elite club, currently resides at Lille. There’s no doubt in my mind that the best talent in the world consistently comes out of France. Campos has it all as far as I’m concerned. He’s far more than a Europa League specialist, he can work on a budget and he has a consistent track record of bubbling up major talent from the lower reaches, and turning them into hot prizes for mega clubs.

There are a few people suggesting Monchi turned us down because of Kroenke.

Please people, give it up. You’re like the rich kids complaining about the lack of Michelin Star restaurants in the favelas you’re working in on your gap year. Arsenal is an elite offering. We have everything you’d want. Great training facilities, an investment fund (right?), massive brand new stadium, £220m wage bill, £100m in transfer fees… London address.

‘… but Kroenke’ is such lazy analysis.

Monchi didn’t move to Arsenal because he wanted a safe place. Arsenal is an attractive proposition to anyone. Even more so when you consider the salary we can offer. Remember, Atleti has a net spend of £13m a year. We can blitz that. If you are ambitious, you’d see Arsenal as a sleeping giant ready to be awoken. If you don’t see us that way, then why would we bother investing?

My big worry with Raul is that he’s not running an effective search and select process. Who is out there helping him? Or is he just calling up his mates to find out who is in favour with a super agent? The fact there’s only one contender being linked either says we’re very secretive, or this search is super limited.

Right, that’s me done. See you in the comments. x

287 Responses to “Never liked Monchi anyway”

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  1. DM

    Bit strange the whole Monchi thing. Looked like it was done and dusted. We should have a serious look at Overmars now.. This Ajax team are pretty interesting, and if he could bring one or two our way it wouldn’t be a bad thing – even more so if he can unearth more in that mould. Plus his Gooner DNA has gotta count for something. That said, we shouldn’t be going for him purely cos of his history with us.

  2. MrT

    Monchi can’t munch it. I hope we find excellent candidates so that his refusal will turn out to be munch a do about monching.

  3. Rambo Ramsey

    Reality slaps in the face for Pedro and co, again. Monchi rejects us.‘Anyone and everyone would love to work at this club’ they continue to shout at the top of their voices.

    Like peak AKBs, the delusion is strong

  4. Dissenter

    Van Djke the greatest!!!

    Gives a freebie to Fulham

    Had that been Mustafi we would have people frothing from the mouth.

  5. Valentin

    VVD is the best defender in the world according to some here. Still making mistake that if Mustafi had made the same, we would be up in arm.

  6. Dissenter

    Pedro
    Your post reeks of sour grapes

    You didn’t want Monchi until he decided to go to a club where he would be in charge fully, not under Sanllehi.

    Stop sensationalizing a backroom position that requires more on the nerdy spectrum than glamor

  7. Un battle angel

    Everyone jumping on the overmars bandwagon?
    How much part did he play in recruiting and nurturing their youth then?
    He could also assist in us pinching de ligt. Won’t happen but a guy can dream
    Saw some where recently that he’s considered the best young talent I. The world
    Imagine us getting him.
    Ball playing defender in between holding and mavropanos

  8. rollen

    Owner doesn’t care if Arsenal is sleeping anything therefore obvious lack of investment. More like sleeping golden goose.

  9. Dissenter

    Did Overmars come up with the Ajax Philosophy?
    Did he create their academy training approach?
    Did he broaden their scouting beyond the typical Ajax reach?

    The answer to all these is NO, NO and NO

    Ajax’s scouting has always been superb. They were scouting Kanu Nwankwo and Finidi George from Nigerian club sides you lot have never heard of in 1993; two years later they were playing in the CL final against Juventus.
    Ajax philosophies as entrenched as Barcelona’s, it’s not been altered.

    People just jump on the latest bandwagon.
    Why does it have to be a big name?
    Why can’t it be chief scout that none of us is familiar with?

  10. Valentin

    I don’t think that it will that easy to find a new DoF the way we have defined the role.
    It is a director of football in name only, more like a super head of scouting.
    A proper director of football will feel restricted. The same thing happenned with Sven. The same thing is likely to repeat with Overmars as most of work at Ajax has also been on the commercial side and that would be Raul’s reserved domain.

  11. Champagne Charlie

    @Pedro
    Agree and disagree. Monchi never tickled my balls (mainly because I’m numb to technical appointments), but I’m always a bit perturbed when the club singles someone out and fails to land. Bit ‘oh here we go…’ with recent Arsenal for me. He’s not the only sauce merchant anyway, but would be nice to land the guys we want.

    Dissenter/Valentin

    Your weird rejoicing at a VVD blunder is a bit playground. Name me a better defender and I’ll offer up countless slip ups. So VVD isn’t top drawer because he made a cunt of himself against a diddy side?

    Gerrard is one of the best midfielders in premier league history and he cost Liverpool a title with a gaffe.

  12. Dissenter

    Thomas
    “Allison was at fault. Van Dijks been worth every penny since going to Liverpool.”

    Yea right?
    Another VVD fanboy.

    Actually it was the ball, the wintry rain, the grass and the wind.
    …everything bu the defender who didn’t take care of the ball and sold his defender short.

    Defenders are thought to make headed back passes away from the goal to give the keeper an advantage.

  13. Bamford10

    Dissenter

    No one is making any of those claims for Overmars. But given how good Ajax are at the moment, there is reason to think he knows what he’s doing, especially when it comes to younger players.

    And of course the TD could be someone we’ve never heard of, but how is anyone here supposed to sing the praises of someone we don’t know about?

    I feel like you’re being disagreeable just to be honest disagreeable.

  14. Dissenter

    There’s something wrong with our management structure

    Unless the technical director means assistant director of football under Sanllehi, we will struggle to fill the position with any one of note.

    There’s nothing to suggest to me that Sanllehi’s director of footballing operations BS isn’t synonymous with Director off football.

  15. Dissenter

    Even Van Djke isn’t making excuses about the mistake; “I shouldn’t have handled it better,..nothing else to say”
    Maybe his fanboys need to take a cue from him.

  16. Bamford10

    Pedro

    Agree, too, that Monchi choosing Sevilla has everything to do with his desire to return “home” and nothing to do with our ownership or our not having enough money.

  17. Dissenter

    Bamford
    “And of course the TD could be someone we’ve never heard of, but how is anyone here supposed to sing the praises of someone we don’t know about?”

    I’ve consistently maintained that this ids more of a promotion job for a bright young child scout or scout, not an audition for a big name blast from the past.

    Why do you have to sing the praise of someone operating a very technical job, that can’t be measured until after about 5 years. The good DoFs spend an average of 10 years at their jobs before people like Pedro start singing their praise.

    My point is that this is not a position in the public eye.It’s a nerdish job of crunching numbers and making actuarial science judgments that may not bear fruit for a long time.
    It is not a position to sensationalize.
    Hope this clarifies your confusion about my consistently held position about this issue.

  18. qna

    Good post Pedro. Never wanted him anyway. Initially it sounded good. But the more you look at how he has been in recent times, the worse the idea sounded. He was yesterday’s man and I was firmly in that camp when he looked odds on to join us.

    Overmars would be perfect. If Campos is the guy behind Monaco when they were collecting superstar youngsters for fun, then it’s a big yes from me.

    Dortmund and Monaco are the real blue prints of the last few years. Ajax just on the scene to be honest, but are working from a significantly worse league so the task is much harder.

    We couldn’t make Sven work which is a real missed opportunity. But hopefully Campos or Overmars are getable and we get it done.

  19. Valentin

    A lot of Ajax success is due to their academy. I doubt that Overmars has had really a big influence on their academy.
    His main credit would be the purchase of the older players such as Tadic.

    Also the way Arsenal have defined the DoF, will Overmars have the influence that he would like.

    At least his influence this summer would be minimum. If Overmars arrives during the summer, you would think that most of the targets had already been selected before his arrival. With Emery finally finding a system, the new DoF would have no say on next year playing philosophy.

    Regarding the academy, from Per interview, it is clear that the academy is run by him, not by the DoF. So his domain seems to be quite limited compare to what he currently has at Ajax.

  20. Guns of Hackney

    Monchi took one look at our shower of shite and gave it the big heave ho. Fair enough if he wanted to go home…but really? Seville will ALWAYS be home so why not give arsenal a couple of years?

    Nah mate…Arsenal are as popular as Liam Neeson in Brixton.

    If Overmars comes in and brings some Dutch class, great! If he doesn’t, great. At least he’s someone who has a connection with the club. Perhaps he has a cloning machine? We could use a bit of him and Bergkamp.

    Turned down by a guy who’s head looks like it’s on the wrong way round. That’s embarrassing.

  21. Guns of Hackney

    Did Van Dick make a dick of himself?

    Everyone is allowed a rick.

    Fuck me, the great Marco Van Basten gave Tony Adams twisted blood back in 1988 and that didn’t work out too badly for the donkey.

  22. Champagne Charlie

    “So Graham, you disagree with VVD own assessment. He made a mistake. End of.”

    I’m pretty sure it’s the link back to anyone that considers VVD best defender about at the moment.

    Care to highlight how an error against Fulham eradicates the possibility of someone considering him the current gold standard?

  23. Chitom

    “DissenterMarch 17, 2019 15:47:40
    Van Djke the greatest!!!Gives a freebie to FulhamHad that been Mustafi we would have people frothing from the mouth.
    ValentinMarch 17, 2019 15:48:34
    VVD is the best defender in the world according to some here. Still making mistake that if Mustafi had made the same, we would be up in arm.“

    Yes, and Messi once missed three penalties in a row, surely must be overrated.

  24. Dissenter

    Valentin
    It’s impossible to measure a technical director’s body work in a very short time.
    The quintessential DoFs that have deemed worthy of mention by Pedro have spend an average of 8-10 years at their jobs.
    We are setting the wrong expectations if we look at it as a 1-3 year stint.
    I think we are trying to mask out lack of a coherent philosophy with a big name appointment.
    I understand that some will say “but the DoF creates the philopshy”…and to that I will say NO.
    We need to know what we are about before bringing in all these hired hands to execute the vision.

  25. Marc

    I was hoping that Everton might managed to take a point (or more) off Chelsea today. Not going to happen they really are fucking awful.

    Any chance of the Spud’s signing Pickford!

  26. Guns of Hackney

    Did Messi really miss 3 in a row? And the team let him carry on past the first miss?

    Lionel MISSey.

    The overrated prick.

  27. Dissenter

    Chitom
    Re; VVD
    “Yes, and Messi once missed three penalties in a row, surely must be overrated.”

    Thanks for making my point.

    You’re actually putting the consistent class of Leo Messi who’s demonstrated his legendary status over the last 12-14 years with a central defender who required three transfers to get to a top club at 27 years old.

    Thanks for the unwitting assist of my point.

  28. Graham62

    Dissenter

    Ok, let’s cut to chase.

    Who, in your opinion, is better than VVD?

    I look forward to your response.

  29. Chitom

    Comparing Mustafi and VVD ‘ mistakes is like bringing up someone’s jaywalking offenses at a serial killer’s sentencing to prove no one is infallible.

  30. Dissenter

    Graham62
    Some here said it was the goal keepers fault when the calamitous backpass was all on the defender.

    ….That’s why it matters that the defenders had the decency to own his mistake …something that fanboys like you wouldn’t haver done.

  31. Chitom

    Dissenter,
    Find one Liverpool fan who thinks VVD is a liability at the back and I’ll concede the argument .
    Good luck with that , and you might want to start your search in looney bins first btw.

  32. Globalgunner

    All the Pool keeper had to do was fall on the ball. It was right there instead he went in 50:50 with his feet against Babel…All on Alisson for me

  33. Victorious

    Weird seeing a good many going on like VVD is the bees knees,

    He is a good defender and just had a brain fart akin to our very own Mustafi

    Not a Mustafi but also not the best thing since since bread, maybe somewhere in between.

  34. Dissenter

    Chitom
    What are you arguing about?
    Who’s talking about VVD being a liability?
    You’re making incoherent babbling points to answer questions that only exist in your mind.

    This VVD issue started because I mentioned that he wasn’t being overly praised for doing things that defenders routinely do. I was tired of reading how fantastic he is because he scored a headed goal in the champion’s league quarterfinal, his first CL goal at the age of 27 years old.
    It was like defending was been redefined buy this majestic defender. the heavens parted and the angels were singing hymns to praise the never seen before moment.
    Let’s cool all the fan boy clamor and see how he does over the next few seasons.
    It’s laughable that you mentioned him in the same sentence as Leo Messi.

    Dip those typing fingers in a vat of sulphuric acid for that heresy.
    Messi has nothing else to prove, VVD has a lot to prove because he’s only been at the world class level for 5 minutes.

  35. Marc

    VVD is a very good defender but if he is the level that Graham claims he’ll picking up at least one if not two trophies this season.

    I can’t see Liverpool winning the league and they’ll have to beat Barca to get to the CL final where they’ll come up against Man City or Juve.

    It will be interesting to see where Liverpool go if they fail to win anything this season.

  36. Dissenter

    Victorious
    Thanks my man
    I was saying that I wouldn’t put him in the same panther with premier league greats like Tony Adams, John Terry, Campbell, Company, Vidic, Ferdinand etc …just yet.
    TheVVD fan club flipped out
    I said I wouldn’t;’t mention him with the same breath as transcendent all time greats like Baresi, Maldini, Bobby Moore, Beckenbauer, Cafu etc.
    The VVD fan club went into grand Mal seizures.

  37. Marc

    Dissenter

    We now live in a culture that exists on instant gratification. A player is either fucking amazing or utter shite based on a few appearances.

    It would be interesting to see the reaction if Liverpool hadn’t got the win as that would have really put City in the driving seat.

  38. Dissenter

    Marc
    “Has VVD ever won anything?”

    He’s won as many Scottish league trophies as Dedryck Boyata
    He scored his first ever CL goal last week, 4 months short of 28 years old and the heavens opened up with unreal praise.
    He’s undoubtedly world class and his record fee is not fluke but the praise on steroids was just too deafening for me.

  39. Chitom

    Dissenter,
    That’s funny pal but you brought Mustafi into this , which is a like for like comparison.
    The Messi pen misses was just a tongue in cheek on my part to show how ridiculous your” VVD made a mistake therefore he’s shit” statement was.
    I couldn’t care less whether you rate him or not btw, but the fact you haven’t named anyone better yet ( in your opinion) speaks volumes.
    Lol.

  40. TR7

    Marko

    ‘It all evens itself out in the end’

    Everyone keeps saying all the bad referring decisions even themselves out but I suspect it is not true at all. Of course I can’t back it up with real data but my sense is big clubs get more favorable decisions than the smaller ones. Manchester United under Fergie is a classic example, they were rarely at the receiving end of bad decisions against them, most often it was the team playing against them that bore the brunt of poor referring. Spurs get a lot of penalty decisions in their favor. As I said I think referee decisions are very very skewed in favor of big teams.

  41. Dissenter

    Marc
    There we go.
    Everton are ahead…may leave us in 4th place
    I wouldn’t rejoice yet because we still have to play them.

  42. Victorious

    I hate dippers but absolutely love Klopp

    Would be absolutely heart wrenching on him to narrowly miss out on the EPL to city who’re the most expensive team in history,

    Think he’ll make the CL semi or final again this season haven lose out in the finals of last

    Think he’s lost 6 finals on a spin too, not sure how more unlucky can anyone be.

    Klopp is doing an amazing job having dippers right in the mix for the title but you just can’t help but feel they’ll eventually lose out to oil money.

  43. Marc

    Receding

    Le Grove often operates with either the memory of a goldfish or just a complete lack of historical knowledge.

    I can’t even be bothered to run through all of the home grown Ajax player’s that came out of the early / mid 90’s.

  44. Aubamazette

    Graham

    ‘A genuine fan would feel ashamed by such an outcome.
    Only those in denial would blame the officiating.
    Simple.’

    I find it sad that you’re able to define everything in black and white (might be your age) when there is a lot more going on than that that contributes to any outcome, idea or conversation.

    You are welcome to your opinion but wouldn’t it be nice to be able to consider others opinions may have some validity, even though they differ from yours, without dismissing them and having a conversation instead? You should try and stop talking about AW so much and deflecting leading you to childish name calling.

    As a senior I thought you’d know better Big G.

  45. Marc

    TR7

    “As I said I think referee decisions are very very skewed in favor of big teams.”

    Your argument falls down when you include the Spud’s as an example of a big team!

  46. Dissenter

    Chitom
    I brought Mustafi into it because VVD, the defender whose fart smells like $4000 Aventus Eau De Parfum made a fundamental error…like Mustafi.
    You think VVD is above criticisms?

    No one will say the same of Messi because he’s proven his class over and over again.
    Umtiti and Varane are just as good as VVD…and have been so for several seasons while VVD was languishing at smaller clubs. They have also won lots of stuff unlike VVD.
    “Who’s better that VVD?” … is a meaningless theoretical exercise.

  47. Dissenter

    Receding
    ‘Marc Dissenter himself thought Everton were amazing before the season started. He kept saying they were going to overtake us”

    I got that very very wrong.
    I was drunk on too much pizzaz wine and over-rated Marco Silva. I really thought he would make them play better than the sum of their parts, instead he’s been gash.

  48. Marc

    Sky have just put up a stat on Everton since Jan 17 in 25 matches against the top 6 zero wins.

    It won’t be an easy game but we should be able to beat Everton.

  49. Receding Hairline

    Fair enough dissenter

    Someone else around these parts would have denied he said so and tied himself in nuts trying to prove he didn’t.

    I didn’t expect much from Silva, too much posturing for my liking, carrying on like is God’s gift to coaching

  50. qna

    “The way Ajax are run has nothing to do with Overmars“

    Guy has been DOF for the last 7 years. The way their football department is run has everything to do with him.

    “and why would we want to be like Ajax anyway”

    Because we’ve been punching below our weight for a decade. Ajax punches above its weight. Granted they aren’t the only one.

    “I can’t even be bothered to run through all of the home grown Ajax player’s that came out of the early / mid 90’s.”

    What exactly has this got to do with anything? Apart from Overmars being one of the most successful of these. Doesn’t that enhance Overmars? That he came through the ranks of a well run club that recognised him by making him their DOF for 7 years?

  51. Dissenter

    If we can get our away performance back up to the Autumn form, we would have qualified for the 4th place with 1-2 games to spare.
    The teams around us are going to lose points.

  52. Receding Hairline

    Napoli just made a hash of a two goal lead to go in level at half time.

    Carlo would have improved us better I’m told but looking at the league table he has taken a very good Napoli side backwards.

  53. Victorious

    Thanks Everton

    Chavs are officially now a joke team and surely out of the top4 race

    Probably now focus on winning Europa of which they have a great chance at

  54. Receding Hairline

    How exactly are Ajax punching above their weight? Dumping out a Madrid side in disarray and presently on their third manager?

    They aren’t even top of their piss poor league.

    I agree with Marc, some of you simply live in the here and now.

    I don’t care who the DOF is, Raul is there to mess things up. Nothing about him fills me with confidence

  55. Versus

    “He was offered a huge wedge of money to revamp Arsenal and he said no, instead returning back to Sevilla.”

    “He was offered a huge wedge of money to revamp Arsenal…”

    Prove it.

    Sarriball? Seems like just another coach who over-thinks the beautiful game. Avb was one. Jorginho at DM?? Hahaha who does he think he is Xabi alonso!

    Now lets enjoy chavs panicking to at least draw this game. To be 2 nil down at this stage of the game is a huge L whatever the final result.
    Out of all the clubs chasing top4, Sarri is definitely getting canned if chavs don’t make it.

    Higuain. Worldclass is he? Mabey 4 years ago.

  56. Victorious

    I would have us as shoe in for top4 already if our away form is anything to write home about

    I mean Our road form is really troubling

    We look a completely different team away from home and unless Emery finds out a working formula asap,i’m afraid thats where we’d probably lose out

  57. Dissenter

    qna
    ““The way Ajax are run has nothing to do with Overmars“

    I believe the writer of that comment was making the point that the Ajax philosophy, academy and scouting has been so defined and etched on stone tablets that the DoF is all but an administrator.
    They’ve been going into virgin territory to sign players right from the 1990’s. I used the example of Kanu and Finidi George in 1993.
    There are volumes of books written about the Ajax philosophy and identity from the 1970’s. Ajax was glamorous before Barca sucked all the oxygen.

  58. Marc

    qna

    “What exactly has this got to do with anything” Well it has to do with the fact that Ajax have a long history of youth development.

    “Doesn’t that enhance Overmars?” Why what has his playing ability or the guy who coached him at youth level got to do with his ability as a DOF?

    You seem to have missed my point – praising Overmars for Ajax having a great youth program is crazy they have a long history of that. I don’t know enough and I’m pretty sure no one on here has access to the info to know how he operates bts and whether that’d be a good fit for us.

    If he comes and is brilliant fantastic but it’s not as if Ajax had never developed a player before he went there.

  59. Pedro

    Oh my god… flat earth brigade out in force today.

    Underperforming in a Dutch League where they’ve won 20 out of 26 and lost 4. I think it’s fair to say that PSV might be a pretty decent outfit considering they’ve only lost 1 game.

    Ajax are back in the big time, they have an exceptional generation of players that Overmars has helped oversee and they are once again a relevant team just like they were in 90s.

    ‘He’s done nothing’ is straight out the top draw of nonsense.

    Marc, instant gratification culture can’t be mashed into everything… unless you’re saying that back in the day, people held back their opinions on players, leaning into multiple data points amassed over year to make an assessment of a player.

    Fans are fans. Only difference is the things you’d say down the pub are now said on a blog or on Twitter. Let’s not level societal ills on someone saying Mustafi is better than VVD.

  60. Pedro

    Marc, how many unreal players have Ajax unearthed since 2000 with their youth academy? The Dutch have been shite for talent for a long time.

  61. Chitom

    Chitom
    I brought Mustafi into it because VVD, the defender whose fart smells like $4000 Aventus Eau De Parfum made a fundamental error…like Mustafi.
    You think VVD is above criticisms?

    No one is ever above criticism my friend but Mustafi has a brain fart in him at least once every other game and he alone must’ve cost Arsenal at least a handful of points this season.
    I happened to watch most of Pools games and VVD has been calmness personified for them since day one and hasn’t cost them points but rather gained them.
    That’s all.
    But don’t take my ward for it.
    Pool have conceded 18 goals this season with 7 games to go whilst 38 last season.

  62. Dissenter

    Pedro
    You’re sensationalizing backroom jobs where successes are only measurable after 3-5 seasons. These DoF are really number crunchers who deploy actuarial sciences to try and get the best result. it’s like a day trader’s job – you only measure it over time.
    So now, Overmars is the new flavor because Ajax beat an abject Madrid?

  63. Marc

    Pedro

    I’m not saying Overmars won’t be good – I’m saying that Ajax have a long history of bringing through good players. All teams whether they be club or national have ups and downs.

    Has Overmars gone in and re enacted things that have got the youth policy working? Was he the sole difference? I have no idea.

  64. Champagne Charlie

    Graham asked for names, I’ve asked previously, seems none of the “VVD is overrated” lot have alternatives to offer a perspective on what makes a top defender in today’s game.

    Just a bunch of noise then, very good.

  65. qna

    “You seem to have missed my point – praising Overmars for Ajax having a great youth program is crazy they have a long history of that. I don’t know enough and I’m pretty sure no one on here has access to the info to know how he operates bts and whether that’d be a good fit for us.”

    What exactly do you think we should be doing? This is the mandate that the DOF needs to be given exactly. To put in place such a system.

    Lol that you think clubs like Ajax maintain this by just putting in place any old hack because the system is self sustaining and doesn’t need to keep pace with the ever changing football landscape. They stay relevant and at the top of their game by putting in place the best possible people for the job. The fact that Ajax gave the job to Overmars and kept him there for 7 years (and still want to keep him) is a massive endorsement to the guy.

    He has also been in the Barca system which is the benchmark.

  66. Marc

    Pedro

    “Marc, instant gratification culture can’t be mashed into everything… unless you’re saying that back in the day, people held back their opinions on players, leaning into multiple data points amassed over year to make an assessment of a player.”

    No I’m saying the opposite back in the day people didn’t have access to the level of info they do today but it now enables people to make knee jerk assessments.

    De Gea was poor in his first season at ManU but I rate him as the best GK in the PL – as things currently stand he would have be written off as shite.

  67. Dissenter

    Chitom
    ‘Nice conversation by the way
    “Pool have conceded 18 goals this season with 7 games to go whilst 38 last season.”

    I’m sure it has as much to do as having two young full backs who broke in roughly the same time as VVD was coming into their squad. Both have pace on help with recovery on defending.
    Coutinho’s exit also helped them defensively. He used to lose the ball a lot and had a bit of Ozil in him.
    I’m sure that their world record fee goal keeper has had a big role in reducing those numbers.
    It’s not all VVD, my friend.

  68. Pedro

    Marc, people have always been knee jerk and were just as opinionated back then.

    You remember the commentary around Gilberto?

  69. Marc

    “This is the mandate that the DOF needs to be given exactly. To put in place such a system. ”

    We need someone who will do more than just develop a youth system. First and foremost their first summer in the job is going to see them have to unload a chunk of players for the maximum revenue. A DOF putting in a fantastic youth system won’t see the dividends for several years.

  70. Aubamazette

    Banford

    You never responded to this when you said everything evens out:

    ‘Ask Italy about that in the World Cup vs South Korea. Where did their luck even out in the tournament from an absolutely corrupt refereeing performance’

    Did you watch football back then? If not google it.

  71. TR7

    ‘I’m sure it has as much to do as having two young full backs who broke in roughly the same time as VVD was coming into their squad. Both have pace on help with recovery on defending.
    Coutinho’s exit also helped them defensively. He used to lose the ball a lot and had a bit of Ozil in him.
    I’m sure that their world record fee goal keeper has had a big role in reducing those numbers.
    It’s not all VVD, my friend.’

    VVD is the pillar of Liverpool’s defense, all the others including the full backs are merely good supporting cast. One just needs to pay attention to understand how pivotal he is to Pool’s defense. As for losing the ball argument, Salah and Mane lose the ball more frequently than Countinho used to.

  72. Dissenter

    qna,
    Doing well at Ajax doesn’t not generalize to doing well in a more competitive environment with more monied opposition and a dearth of advantages that Ajax have accrued in the Eredivisie.
    -Ajax start by being one of the three natural destinations for the best Dutch talent. It”s either Feyenoord, PSV or Ajax; that’s a big advantage Overmars won’t have.
    -Ajax also have a distinct identity and philosophy, it’ set in stone from the excellent Dutch teams of the 1970’s who were mainly Ajax trained. Overmars has not being tasked with defining a club’s philosophy.
    -Ajax’s beyond Europe-scouting has always been world class. I don’t think Overmars would have had to change a damn thing because they’ve been renowned as pioneers in scouting from the 1970s.

    Overmars may have been more of a Sanllehi than a Michael Zorc [or the Leipzig guy] who had to rethink the entire approach from ground-up.

  73. Batistuta

    Charlie

    Chiellini
    Bonnuci
    Varane(not recently though)
    Umtiti
    Skriniar

    I’d rate this lot above Virgil…..Not to say he isn’t a good player but some of the praise for him while warranted have been way over the top…I’ve seen pool fans compare him to Ferdinand and that’s saying something

  74. qna

    Huge result today. I reckon 18 more points is enough for top 4. Maybe less.

    Could possibly drop Everton and Wolves and still a great chance.

  75. Dissenter

    TR7
    “VVD is the pillar of Liverpool’s defense, all the others including the full backs are merely good supporting cast. ”

    The goalie has not improved them massively?
    I don’t know what you mean by “supporting cast” but good defenses operate as a pack like an acappella choir does with a song.
    Excellent wing backs with tonnes of recovery pace and a very good goal keeper aren’t “supporting cast”. They are all part and parcel of the defense.

  76. Victorious

    I’ve seen pool fans compare him to Ferdinand and that’s saying something’

    Lol, that says it all really,those bunch take delusion to a all new level

    Think you missed Koulibaly in your list, guy us a beast at the back currently the best CB in Europe
    Ramos and Pique before are also better

  77. Batistuta

    No reason why we shouldn’t get a result over Napoli too…They look a shell of themselves this season, very important not to gift them any away goals though, very vital…..

    Don’t trust our away form to pin my hopes on the league as a route into the champions league but it’s great we have more than one option

  78. Graham62

    Aubamazette

    Name calling. When?

    I know that some posters just hate the fact that I bring up AW in many topics of conversation. Twentytwo years of total control at the club, what do you expect?

    I was ashamed of many things over the past decade or so, both on and off the field of play, that’s why I came on here in the first place. Now I feel far more optimistic about things BUT, if and when I feel the need to point out certain subjects that some on here don’t like or agree with, I will take the flack.

    Where as those VVD responses?

  79. Batistuta

    Victorious

    Yea forgot about Koulibaly, he’s absolutely monstrous and has good pace for a man his size….He’s the only one resembling a functioning defender in that back 4 or 3 for Napoli though which is why i quite fancy our chances against them

  80. Redtruth

    There a three groups at Arsenal:

    Group A: The genuine loyal Fan.
    Group B: AKB’s who have never supported Arsenal.
    Group C: The halfwit fan who criticises Emery.

  81. Champagne charlie

    Batistuta

    What exactly is the metric in which you rate a defender?

    You obviously dote on Serie A, But then you venture outside of that and include a guy who has struggled with injury since his inception (Varane), and a guy who Barca are actively looking to replace this summer.

    VVD improves every single club in Europe. That’s the measure of his quality as far as I’m concerned, he also has no discernible weakness as a defender.

  82. Graham62

    Neither Dissenter or Valentin could come up with an answer.

    Batistuta

    Very impressive listing but, imo, not one of them can top VVD.

  83. Victorious

    Yh, Napoli are a decent side but are shocking defensively,which explains why they never seem to gain any traction their ‘title bid’ every season

    We have a great chance against them, it’s a game for the attackers and I think we trump them on that

    Their RB Malcuit is horrible and should be a target for us

    Koulibaly won’t be there for long,he’s being linked to UTD for 90M

  84. qna

    Dissenter. No guarantees. There never are. He is not the only one that can do the job, but him being DOF at a club like Ajax is a pretty good place to start. I am a huge fan of Dutch football. They have an awful league, but due to their focus on technical abilities they constantly produce excellent talent. Clearly Ajax is going through a little resurgence at the moment and Overmars has been at the helm for this current crop of extremely promising young talents.

    It’s not like he can make things worse. We haven’t brought through any top talent through our youth system that I can think of. We could do worse than giving him some financial backing and telling him to implement the Ajax system at Arsenal.

    I’d be perfectly happy with the Monaco guy. Of course the Barca academy is the best in the business and Raul will know exactly who to poach from them. But that will probably be more costly.

    At the end of the day a DOF is only a couple million a year. That appointment alone isn’t enough. The club has to be prepared to invest heavily in the youth system and scouting system.

  85. Bob N16

    Red …..must have spent most of the weekend coming up with your ‘groups’. I assume you put yourself in Group A or do you have your own ‘Group Redruth’?

  86. qna

    Marc. Maybe. Basically if we can take 3 points from those 3 away games (Wolves, Everton, Leicester) and win the rest that takes us to 78 points (I think). With the fixtures of the other teams and form, I just feel that might be enough.

  87. salparadisenyc

    “If Chelsea can’t get the transfer ban put back they are in trouble, especially if Hazard leaves. Could put them back years.”

    Lets hope.

    Monchi, not bothered at all. Feel theirs perhaps more relevant hires to be had if were truly looking. Nobody has any real clue what clubs up to at moment, Sven’s leaving was bizarre. The Monchi rumors seems obvious with history but then he wasn’t a real upgrade on Mislintat and now he’s back at Sevilla so thats null.

    Curious where the next bend leads, Overmars has had a full cycle with Ajax thats really panning out. I don’t buy into the notion that is built in at Ajax pointing to their rich past. Times have changed, the mega money clubs compete hard for young talent. Overmars has done very well.

    Campos is clearly top drawer as well looking back on his work with Jardim and now at Lille.

  88. Champagne charlie

    Ospina sent to hospital with a serious head injury which has obviously rattled the cage of the resident basement dweller.

  89. Barking Arsene

    Chiellini still number one for me but that won’t last forever. Closely followed by Godin and Kompany.

    All of the above though will decline over the next few years (Kompany possibly already).

    Once the top three go though I’d say VVD is the best out there (except maybe Koulibaly)

  90. Victorious

    Qna

    Flack track bullies or not we look shocking on the road ,don’t trust us a jolt as a certified winner in any of the fixtures

    Emery started reasonably well when we looked as if we’ve banished our horribly away form of last season then it went to pants and now we look sudden at home but abject away.. A bit like last season

    Go through the sites of spuds/UTD and you’d find they fancy their chances at top4 on the account of our patchy away form.

  91. Valentin

    @Graham,

    I have named numerous defenders who do not have the British name recognition but who I believe are better than VVD.
    On top of my head two world cup winners: Varane, Umtiti.

    The point we were making is not that VVD was a bad player, because he is obviously a very good one. Just that he is a good player, not a great one. He still makes mistakes.
    The major improvement in Liverpool defense is more to the combination of different elements rather than a single element.
    A new much better goalkeeper, two young aggressive fullbacks instead of Moreno, the improvement in Joe Gomez so less reliance on Lovren and Mario, a change in tactics (no more gengen pressing with a high line) meaning that Liverpool is rarely on the back foot defensively.
    If you compare last season defensive record before and after VVD arrival. The improvement is marginal. Number of goal conceded in the league is nearly the same.
    This season all the changes that I have mentioned result in a much better performance. Like I said before, VVD is part of the solution to Liverpool defensive woes, not THE solution.

  92. Batistuta

    Charlie

    I rate those guys based on top level performance for years except Skrimiar who was brilliant before Inter swooped him up

    Varane was part of a 3x champions league winning defence and he’s definitely gotten over his injury woes…..Also seen enough of Umtiti over a long period to pass judgement, again another world cup winning defender in a team that were all about defensive solidity….

    I’m not saying Virgil isn’t good as he is and would probably walk into the defence of any team based on current form but and in my opinion anyway, he has to be doing it consistently at a very high level before I’d put him above some of the greatest ever defenders ever as scousers have been doing of late