Bad news on the injury front. Ironman Granit Xhaka is out for 3 months. Whatever you think about him, that is a massive issue for Arsenal because it depletes us of reliable experience and it means we’re a little closer to a 3 month Mo Elneny residency in our midfield.
It’s a killer as well because the injury was a total freak. How much bad luck do we consistently get these days? It’s always something.
This could be an opportunity.
No.
It has to be an opportunity for some of the younger players to make moves.
AMN is going to land minutes. He has to grab them. He has to stay focused, up his intensity, and find the midfield version of whatever he did in the FA Cup run.
Sambi Lokonga is regarded as a future superstar of European football. But he’s still a little lightweight for the league. He has to find a bit of bite to his game and continue to impress in the middle with his already up-to-speed passing and movement.
There might be a crack in the blinds for Charlie Patino. Look, he’s very young, he’s super green, but he has something about his game. Could he earn himself some minutes? You’d imagine he will in the League Cup.
There’s also a bit of chatter about Jack Wilshere. I love the player, he’s homegrown, and it’d be sexy to see him back at The Arsenal, but I’m not sure we can register him and he’s probably a way off Premier League full-fitness. But it’s a sexy idea, if not a little naive.
Matt from the podcast said yesterday that we might be about to feel the Gilberto-effect of losing Granit. If you don’t know what that means, back in the day, Gilberto was a bit of a mystery to people. The Brazilian midfielder was incredibly technical, but not as bang bang as our other players, so people didn’t understand what he did. Then he got injured, and we felt the pain of his absence. Closing down spaces, covering the back 4, using his movement to do clever things. Granit has his issues, his very visible HORROR moments cloud that he’s pretty reliable in the main. This is not great news for us, so let’s hope some players can step up in his absence.
One player who might have stepped into Granit’s shoes would have been Matteo. The Frenchman has performed pretty well for Marseille this season, but we’re barely out of September and French journo Romain Canuti is reporting this:
“There are a few players at Marseille who are struggling with Guendouzi. His way of working, when he always blames others for things, when he falls to his knees in training to implore God because a touch isn’t good enough, it grates”
I love this.
When everyone was beating the club over the head for being sh*t, this was the story that people kept coming back to: MATTEO WAS MISMANAGED.
Well, here we are, in September, and his teammates are leaking against him.
Did you see any of the above type behaviour at the weekend? Did you see any of the petulance, even when we were losing? No. You don’t want it. Being a d*ckhead is not ‘caring too much’, it’s a waste of energy. When players are gossiping about dickheads, it wastes time. When coaches have to worry about how hard to discipline a good player, it shifts focus from the helping people that want to behave. He is going to struggle if he continues to disrupt like this… but it’s clearly not a management issue, it’s a Matteo problem.
This week has given clarity to a lot of things, one of them, is culture. When you are making changes, things always get worse before they get better. We’ve moved on 30 players in 2 years. We’ve cut big players that didn’t have the character or behaviour we desired, and at times, it felt counter-productive. But now, we can see that actually, those moves look good. All the new players we signed seemed to have been vetted for good egg/bad egg vibes. Notable that a huge chunk of the fanbase wanted Aouar, but we passed, like the rest of Europe, because the backroom team wouldn’t punt on a talented guy that floats in and out of interest.
You can’t just sign in good eggs. They need to have talent. Martin Odegaard is a good egg, that everyone loved around the club, who boasted an incredibly high ceiling. More of those types as we move forward.
Also worth noting this: Arsenal fans threw a shit fit about our signings. Why? Because the system was not to be trusted. This summer needed to be 100%. We signed 6 players that basically no one really knew much about. If I’m going to be blunt, this summer was like a typical Arsene Wenger summer.
Robert Pires? All we knew is he was good in Champ Man.
Thierry Henry? Failed right wing back.
Patrick Vieira? Couldn’t make it at Milan.
Marc Overmars? Busted flush.
Nik Anelka? Wtf?
We had no idea, but after a while, we trusted his talent ID, even when players looked hopeless. I remember Wenger telling us Robert Pires would be like Zidane. No one could see it, but Wenger could, and it happened.
This summers deals, so far, has made the doubters looks silly. Those ‘THE NEEDLE DIDN’T MOVE’ folk will happily chew down some of that humble pie, because they didn’t want to be right. Good analysts and scouts are supposed to find value where others can’t see it. If things carry on this way… we’ll trust January. Then we’ll trust the summer. We’ll finally get a bit of trust back in a system that let us down very badly over the past decade.
Finally, before I go. How good are we all feeling today? Nothing feels as good as a NLD win. To think, only a few weeks ago, a serious conversation was whether it was ok for Arteta to use the word ‘project.’ Can you imagine being that petty? In all honesty, I can, but come on people… getting riled by the word ‘project.’ Take a walk.
Right, that’s me done. See you in the comments… but before you go there, watch the video or listen to the podcast.
EB – “Don’t ask me to name them, they know who they are.” Name them though. Who are all these crazies who slammed every single signing? Who unfairly criticises every move Arteta makes? He’s been in charge for almost 2 years and we’ve heard all the mitigating circumstances for back-to-back 8th place finishes and being knocked out of Europe. Questioning him after the start we had this season was justified, imo. The only clot who fits the profile you and AFC are describing as “some people” is CG. You should listen to the podcasts, the views there are far more… Read more »
Mr Serge “AFC this is true hell, i was rounded on for daring to have an opinion other than Arteta is shite and all the signings suck, hence why I have stepped back from chatting on here, been called a super fan a supporter not a fan and all sorts of nonsense, bottom line we all want Arsenal to succeed and i would rather see that now rather than sack another manager and see if it works in another 18 months or so.” Yep. Spuds have been recycling managers for years, so much so most of their fans present at… Read more »
englandsbest
The criticism of Arteta was/is totally justified.
Emery was vilified on here by many for far worse.
I’m not taking anything for granted here because what I do know is that Arteta has basic managerial and coaching weaknesses, which worries me immensely.
It will take a lot more than a win against Spuds to change my perceptions of him.
Let’s see how they get on on Saturday evening against another fresh team.
Pedro, “What does moving to the Middle East in your prime have to do with anything’ is such a very bad take.” Point I was making, my take, is that Pereira was a decent player last season. Scored 11 in 33 EPL appearances. On a WBA bound for relegation. Pepe’s EPL stats on a mid-table Arsenal team weren’t better and he plays in a position where you’d expect them to be better. WBA wanted too much money, he wanted out, Covid summer, a million different reasons for him to end up at a shit Saudi side, but him being a… Read more »
“Ben White is better than William Saliba.”
————————————————————
They are both young and have different strength and weakness. I find Saliba has a higher ceiling but he’ll need good coaching to reach his potential.
“Martinez decided to leave because he didn’t have the guts to fight Leno for his position”
Do you really believe that?
Unbelievable!!
Pedro,
Gotta disagree on Bellingham. Came from great sources, also is the kind of deal that gets screwed up with lack of continuity or executive infighting.
Sven probably sold the kid that at Arsenal he’d get chances to play much sooner than City, Chelsea who are backed up with quality, young and old. The abruptness with which Sven left would’ve scared off the kid a bit too.
Also Sven could’ve found a way to warm the kid away from Dortmund a little, using his knowledge of the club.
I’ll stop crying over it because we have Saka, ESR and øde.
“Throwing 5 plus-es at Arteta so you can get at him for over-paying for Ben White? Dear me. If any other manager came up with that ransfer record, you’d be waving his flag. Furthermore, Ben is doing pretty good, all things considered.And you’ll be eating your words – unless you deny what you wrote.“ Not surprisingly my comment went right over your head, Englandsbest. It wasn’t a dig at Arteta but rather at posters like yourself who gaslight on a scale Trump would be proud of. I’d say go back and read my post again but I’m afraid you’d just… Read more »
Bob N16September 30, 2021 15:41:56
Sid, there are no farms in North London…
lol
As we all knew at the time and has been proven since, in bucket loads, Martinez is a superior GK to Leno. We saw it, he knew it but because Mr Arteta was too proud and stubborn to make the correct decision, that would have benefited the entire dynamics of the team, Martinez went to prove his case elsewhere. Ok, we’ve now got Ramsdale, who has impressed me so far and is a damn sight better than Leno but to let Martinez leave the way he did ranks as one of Arsenal Football Clubs worst ever decisions. “guts”!! Pull the… Read more »
Graham62
i’m sorry didn’t leno start over emi under every other manager too
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Congrats to Aaron Ramsdale and Bukayo Saka being selected in the England’s 23-man squad. White lost out instead Fikayo Tomori is selected. He plays for AC Milan. Southgate: doesn’t think that you have to be an EPL defender to be good enough.
bullshit Jamie
all you have to do is go to the comments in the last few weeks of the window until the man city game if you wanna seek out some bizarre negativity on here.
on another note, is anyone compiling almunia’s tv movies? is he still writing them?
Martinez on leaving Arsenal –
“When I was on a high, I still felt like they didn’t deserve me because of the way they were treating me. They couldn’t guarantee me the games I needed so I thought that if they couldn’t guarantee me the games I needed, then I’m moving on.
“They didn’t say to me that I wasn’t going to play, they just didn’t guarantee me the games that I wanted to play.
saddest thing about emi is that it would’ve been maybe 4 or 5 games into last season until he fully displaced Leno…
No doubt some people will use the England call ups as an opportunity to take potshots at Ben White. Frankly, I don’t really care. It’s time that White will have with Arteta and the other coaches learning… and avoiding injury… and getting settled in further.
If he starts dominating it for Arsenal, the caps will follow.
I’m pleased for Saka and Ramsdale of course, but if they come back to us injured, it will do us no end of harm!
Jamie
Grab a hold of yourself
Earlier you stated that you hated divisiveness on here. I can’t think of anything more divisive than naming names. A kangaroo court, an Un-American Activities Committee.
zacharse
Wenger had him from a kid, Emery had other problems and Arteta just blew it.
How old was Martinez when he came to Arsenal? Wasn’t he 17?
Petr Cech came along for his retirement package as most ex- Chelski players do.
So you’re telling me at the time, when Martinez was arguably one of our better players and pivotal in our defensive stability, you were happy to see him go?
From the moment Martinez took over from Leno we all saw he was a mikes better keeper.
Martinez have been proved 100% correct to leave Arsenal. It directly lead him to achieving the dream of his life winning the Copa America. There are no ifs and buts. He was right to leave regardless of whatever else happens in his career from now till the end of it. He didn’t want to risk staying and getting benched for whatever reason due to whatever circumstance. It would have stopped him from realizing the dream that he knew he could achieve. It was undoubtedly the best decision of his life. Same as Willian leaving Chelsea for us in the year… Read more »
miles better
Good for Emi to leave. The correct decision for his own career.
As I stated earlier our goalkeeping system/players and coaches are a weak link in the chain. Always been since Jens hung em up.
I don’t trust Arteta’s coaching staff. Leno said that he didn’t understand why he lost the #1 spot. We all see his weakness and his coach didn’t even let him know and tried to improve him.
Make a data spreadsheet on the Martinez/ Leno/ Runarsson/ Ryan/ Ramsdale debacle.
It’s a frigging disaster.
Imo, sackable offence.
Not sure Southgate would bring anything out of ESR. Better he stays home and trains.
What about Chalk Farm?
Nelson
“Well Bernd, let me make it simple for you. If you can’t command your area, go for crosses, deal with the physicality of the game, communicate properly, distribute the ball consistently, make quick and clear decisions, then I’m afraid I don’t want you as my number 1”
graham62 we had him at the club for 8 years. what more do i need to say? to lay the blame exclusively w arteta is missing the relevantpoints, for instance like i said earlier he would have become our #1 less than 1/4 of the way through the season…but he preferred villa. i might a done the same thing in his boots if i was feeling unappreciated. Can’t remember if we offered him a new contract, but if we didn’t we should have immediately after the FA cup. At that point arteta, its safe to say, was not in the… Read more »
Fikayo was the better defender last season as well
It was COVID-19 restrictions and need to quarantine that denied him call-ups to the national squad in the lead up to the Euros
That’s just plain fact, not intended to rub anyone off.
graham62
that’s what you would do at this moment in time? Fire Arteta because of emi/runarson/leno?
no wonder you disagree w so much at the club, you are fucking crazy
As you all know I’ve not been afraid to call Arteta to account and bring criticism when I felt it was justified but this continued looking back to Martinez is a bit overdone now.
Yes, he erred by letting him go but the important factor for me is that Arteta has now rectified his error by bringing in Ramsdale. He’s learnt from his mistakes. Sure the mistake shouldn’t have been made but I’m glad we have someone who isn’t stubborn enough to persist with an error just to save face… as it was in this case.
There’s no need for some to be ultra-defensive.
Ben White has the big stage now. If he’s as good as some think, then he will make his claim for England call-ups in the months to come.
Oh good, it’s been a few days and we can all discuss the Martinez transfer…again!
He wasn’t given a 100% guarantee that he would be No1 above a German international, he decided after NINE years to leave Arsenal for first team football, we got £20m after signing him for peanuts. End of……
We’ve now got Ramsdale…..
Should we now chat about how we f*cked up the Suarez deal and not buying Yaya?
“ I don’t trust Arteta’s coaching staff.”
I don’t either, Arteta needs to bring in more experience to challenge him.
G62
I’m not going to argue with that. It probably does look dissonant. But spreadsheets simply lack any context, such as who was pulling strings at the time . The power axes at Arsenal have been swinging wildly since Arsene was demobbed, I can’t allign myself with blaming Mike and Edu for many of the deals that seem to be attributed to their incompetence. Willian is of course the rock on which they are legitimately reefed, but who knew he’d bomb so bad?
So, So BAD
“Earlier you stated that you hated divisiveness on here. I can’t think of anything more divisive than naming names. A kangaroo court, an Un-American Activities Committee.” You can’t think of anything more divisive than naming the names of all the people you accuse of being unfairly negative? Weak. I’ll make the list for you: CG (wants Wenger back) Val (loves all the French players, wants them at Arsenal) Can’t think of anyone else. Those two guys really mess with the flow of the comments section. You and AFC are right to be very upset about their contributions and brave not… Read more »
interesting point made about the xhaka injury- it’s the first bad injury he’s ever suffered. That doesn’t seem normal to me at 29, but maybe I’m just ignorant I’m glad all the talk of the ‘project’ has been laid to rest. It’s a clear case of Arsenal always dipping their toes into the water of the BVB model but never really putting its money where its mouth is until this summer. Ya we’ve had our Cescs, we had sven buying guen and saliba, edu(?) found martinelli, now we got ESR and saka as our hale end champs- but really during… Read more »
jamie
go look at comments here from literally one month ago and then please stop you’re making a scene and you’ll wind up 51/50’d
Bob
“Oh good, it’s been a few days and we can all discuss the Martinez transfer…again!”
It’s one of the signs I was talking about earlier. It will be Saliba next.
“There’s no need for some to be ultra-defensive.
Ben White has the big stage now. If he’s as good as some think, then he will make his claim for England call-ups in the months to come.”
I don’t know where this is coming from because no one is being ultra-defensive here.
We need him to he fit which can’t be guaranteed if picked for the national team. Hoping Saka comes back injury-free
The posters who are passionately ‘Arteta out’ finding it more difficult to focus on recent results so have to turn other areas of criticism.
Ok I get it now. Johnny from the podcast – who has been super critical of Arteta until the NLD, and who also wondered why Saliba didn’t get a shot to see what he’s about before being sent out on another loan – is a bedwetter. But AFC – who takes sabbaticals from legrove when we have the worst start to a season in decades like a proper fair weather supporter, then comes back after a couple good results to chest-thump – is not one. Gotcha. I’d rather Johnny’s takes all day long. The rest of us come here win… Read more »
Agree Tee, although White might have preferred to hang out with England players and sit on the bench, it’s better for Arsenal that he trains with Gabriel etc.
Pedro,
Just catching up, speaking of Pearls mate I’m pretty sure people can point to a whole bunch of your own. So I won’t even entertain a response.
Just to reiterate I am an Arsenal supporter not an ‘Arteta’ supporter, first and foremost!
You’ve been tying yourself up in knots since his appointment to defend every decision he makes and justify it.
So as for me having an opinion that can’t be trusted, if flip flopping is a sign of someone who should be trusted , then in Pedro and the process we trust.
zacharse Get your facts right. Martinez came to Arsenal in 2010 as a youth player and left in 2020. That makes 10 years. Yes, put all the facts together and it was a sackable offence. That’s my opinion but I’m sure a few posters on here, like Bob N16, will question the logic, which he always loves to do. I will be 100% honest here, I was delighted we beat Spuds but I’m still not convinced by Arteta and his methods. People act as if he’s only been at the club a few months, when come December it will be… Read more »
Saliba worship?
Jesus, talk about misrepresentation.
I can guarantee if Pedro put this question in his survey the bulk of responders would say not sure but would’ve liked to see him play before loaned out again, especially if project youth has always been the plan.
Graham62, isn’t this stream about putting forward your views for discussion. You come out with some forceful, provocative statements which are begging to be responded to,
In your last post for example, ‘Yes, put all the facts together and it was a sackable offence’. I think you are very much in the minority with this statement. Is someone in the wrong for disagreeing with you just because you feel passionately about it?
Jamie grabbed a few for you from a milder discussion in august: WengerEagleAugust 17, 2021 22:24:53 The guts of 150m for White, Odegaard, Ramsdale, Lokonga and Tavares just is so disappointing when you consider what could have been gotten with that figure. OzyAugust 17, 2021 22:35:52 I agree, Eagle. Close to 150 million spent and I don’t really see much of an improvement from the squad that finished 8th last season. Receding HairlineAugust 17, 2021 22:55:28 We are packing the club full of players “Arteta likes”, ay considerable cost, let’s ignore he once upon a time liked Willian and Soares… Read more »
Maybe I’m getting a bit confused, as there’s more than one Mark who posts.
Zach that post above from August isn’t me by the way.
GRaham62
well now that he’s weathered a fucking nightmare of a storm, let him get on with it.
whether he proves himself a pep or not he’s got our club out of the shitter for the moment which is what we’ve all been arguing about since he’as been here
WHETHER HE COULD GET US TO WHERE HE’S NOW GOT US
Btw, in relation the “Saliba worship “nonsense………Leicester has the leagues fifth worst defensive record this season, and had Fofana not been injured the same crowd that spent the entirety of last season fabricating nonsensical evidence for his overwhelming culpability would’ve been at it again.
The cheek lol.
Tom: “especially if project youth has always been the plan” We all know they came up with it out of their asses this Summer. Their previous Summer was bringing a 32 yo Willian, a 29 yo Soares and a 27 yo Mari in – all of them stealing the game time for younger players and none of them proving to be good enough to start games. They basically spent money on old reserves which is exactly what you don’t do in project Youth as a bunch of your starters and practically all of your reserves should be young players waiting… Read more »
not an issue mark
personally i don’t give a shit one way or the other and don’t mind if people change their minds etc.
I get fed up with rabbit hole mentality and bad faith arguing
https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/arsenal-transfer-william-saliba-return-25104915
LOL in the press today.
Tom This Saliba crusade needs context too shirly. A proper fuck up first time around not getting him a loan in time. Took plenty of heat for it. For whatever reason, like it or not, felt he hadn’t developed enough in half a season to risk as first choice at The Arsenal. Context then? Play him preseason and dump him on the bench behind Holding +/- White, or even worse dump him and find a late loan again,( miss one again possibly) or be straight. Get as much gametime as he can ,in as competitive an environment as he can… Read more »
Yikes, appreciate the effort Zacharse.
Comments taken between Aug 16 and Aug 18th, right between our losses to Brentford and Chelsea on our way to our worst league start in our 118 year history.
If you weren’t critical of Arteta’s 22 month reign up to that point, that’s up to you I guess.
Anyone including Almunia’s legendary posts deserves a time-out. Flagrant foul.
Wow Zach, paints a picture.
I’m just not keen on an echoing negativity (even if they’re proved right which hopefully will not be the case!)
Tom,
But don’t you know that Fofana cost them Champions League football?!
We’re going to have to ban the ‘look over here’ conversation of William Saliba going forward.
Let’s focus the conversation on the tangibles. The real things that happened. Like the proper back 5 we have now. The exciting young players we have coming through. Not whether Saliba was badly wronged because the manager that has the youngest starting 11 in the Premier League doesn’t understand young players.
Time to move on.
Tim Stillman on Arseblog has written an extremely well-measured take on Arteta’s continued employment – well worth a read.
Damn, Zach’s post is the reason so many would prefer to talk about Saliba.
Gotta say, I sure don’t miss those ‘zany’ comedy skits.
🚨SALIBA VIOLATION🚨
Whops I posted after Pedro dropped a comment about banning Saliba related stuff. I was just following other people’s lead.
HGaha
Pedro
That is Authoritarian. Banning talking about an Arsenal player isn’t a good look. People have their opinions. And if they think Saliba is a better player, they should be allowed to say so. And it is not offensive or derogatory to anyone. At one point, even you were baffled as to why we sent him on loan.
That’s an interesting read by Tom Stillman and something I had considered when struggling to come up with viable alternatives to Arteta. You just know a club like Chelsea whoever will bin off Tuchel should things turn sour despite his CL win (2 losses in a row is a crisis for Chelsea?) I don’t feel that it was a problem, as Arsenal fans, to be concerned about where we were headed under Arteta, halfway through last season, after the EL exit or indeed after the first 3 games of this season. The Spurs game was just the first outstanding performance… Read more »
Habesha, I live in the country the codified freedom of speech better than anyone… and they are totally cool with private entities curtailing average commentary used to spike The Arsenal online.
Also, you can take your Saliba comments to Reddit, they’ll have it.
Saliba talk is welcome if it is constructive enough. The idea of just going into a state of negativity does not work for everyone.
Moving forward.
Q. What tactical changes will you make to get a win against Brighton if you were in Arteta position?
Graham62 You are like a dog with a bone with Emi. A parallel to Pierre with Ozil. You know it’s chewed to bits but you won’t let go. If all of us on here knew that Martinez suited Arteta’s style better than Leno, then for sure so did Arteta. To dispute that would make you seem utterly daft or else agenda-driven. So why did Arteta sell him? We know the answer to that, too: Emi demanded to be number one in all key matches. For me, that’s the prerogative of the manager, not the player. But I understand Emi’s POV:… Read more »
Thanks zach
Jamie
so you weren’t being honest were you? you were just waiting to pull that one out, got it.
Well, point is you wanted proof of a steady stream of poorly thought out negative commenters about players who hadnt played yet, or had played once in a depleted squad w balogun starting…
you’ve shown your true colors
fuck off with yer concern trolling
Pedro,
I’m for free speech, nasty speech, horrific speech being free, because it’s important, even necessary,
but thank you for taking a stand against annoying speech LOL…
Past three games, one goal allowed, and I have to keep scrolling past whingers crying about Saliba constantly. Even right after a wonderful derby.
Like you said, the guy can come take part next season anyway. Can find plenty of minutes for three great CB’s., Hopefully with Europe.
People’s priorities and attitudes are a mess.
Zach – “so you weren’t being honest were you? you were just waiting to pull that one out, got it.” I wasn’t being honest? About what exactly? I said I couldn’t think of any posters besides CG and Val who were unjustly critical of Arteta and all his summer signings. “Well, point is you wanted proof of a steady stream of poorly thought out negative commenters about players who hadnt played yet, or had played once in a depleted squad w balogun starting…” I don’t understand this sentence. You gave me some examples of folk berating Arteta and the signings.… Read more »
Nigel, agree. I’m all about free speech. But on an online message board, it’s about flow of conversation… and Saliba/Emi is a spoiler tactic for people in the mud right now.
New post!
NLD*
zach, so what did you prove posting this long ass comment? This is AFC’s original comment: “AFC: “That is why anyone Arteta signs is instantly rubbished. They haven’t got the ability to be reasonable because they are obsessive and completely closed-minded. ”” Where is the instant rubbish of Partey, Gabriel, Lokonga, Tavares just because they were signed by Arteta? In your copy/paste Bacary even included Lokonga in his perfect transfer window. The only comment to include them called the transfer window disappointing when you consider what we could have been gotten with that figure. A comment I absolutely agree with… Read more »
Also the only negative comment I read as a whole for Tavares and why I’m making the clarifications, is that is that Benfica fans were laughing at us for paying for Tavares who was supposedly not rated by them. So maybe someone commented in response as this was the first thing that many people heard of the guy and maybe it influenced people at the beginning.
The notion that a group of people in the blog are rubbishing anyone Arteta signs because it’s signed by Arteta is not true.
Raptora, I do admire the pivot, but you have been pretty awful about Arsenal for the past 4 months. Surprised you are out here saying that people shitting on the project and the players we signed isn’t a thing.
‘Move the needle’ was a constant theme, even with folk who have good talent ID like TR7 and WE.
Leicester losing again, poor Tom.