A lot of backlash out there for Liverpool and Spurs right now. They seem to be pushing ahead with furloughs of their non-sport workers. There are a lot of questions as to what makes an organisation prime for tapping into the precious government funds. It’s a murky question with a lot of grey, so it’s not surprising that the government didn’t have this sorted before they jumped into announcing the scheme.
Here are some of my thoughts that shine a light on the muddy situation that should or could be used to deny clubs the privilege.
1. Furloughing workers before attempting to redistribute salaries from front office workers
Liverpool and Spurs don’t appear to have attempted to course-correct their business model to support the back office team. Liverpool has a wage bill of £31om a year, it’s a top 5 in the world number. That’s £6m a week. They have furloughed 200 staff. Let’s be generous and say the average salary of those back-office staff was £50,000 a year, which would be staggering for that area of the country, that’s £10,000,000 year, which works out at £192,000 a week.
Liverpool would have to shave 3% of their top earners to cover the bottom 200 on a made-up, hugely inflated average salary for their current furloughed workers.
This sort of ask in the real world would not go through a union. It’d be mandatory. Big companies in the private sector are trying to redress the balance. Mandatory pay cuts are often tiered and quite often don’t kick in until you hit a certain threshold of salary. Big earners take a bigger hit. At the biggest companies, some execs are totally foregoing their pay in its entirety. Major corps are all moving to the socialist wage structure Wenger dreamed of. Why? Well, no one wants to be savaged in the press and actually, quite a lot of leaders are demonstrating a social conscious right now.
Football fans would feel a lot better about players and clubs if they instituted this right now. No debate. No asking the media to make our you are being bullied. No grotesque excuses like ‘by paying me my millions, you’re actually saving lives.’
2. Any club dishing out performance bonuses
Daniel Levy has a bonus coming this year that was deferred from last year. If you’re paying out massive bonuses right now, you are clearly in good enough shape to not need government help. It’s difficult to call deserved bonuses greed, but in if you’re pleading poverty, then doling out bonuses 136x the median wage of the average Brit, you don’t deserve a subsidy from the taxpayer. Remember, a £3m bonus is nearly 16 weeks of 200 people on £50,000 a year.
3. Clubs with tax exiled owners
Looking at Spurs here. Though this notion is grounded in something real, it’s not the fault of the everyday worker how their owner pays their taxes. That’s why the Richard Branson thing is very tricky, do you punish 8,700 Virgin Atlantic workers because their boss doesn’t pay tax? That’d cause an incredible amount of suffering for a finger-wagging exercise.
4. Clubs with big cash positions.
The Swiss Ramble has the Premier League down with a total cash pot of about £1b.
In such an environment, cash is king. The Premier League clubs have just over a billion, but worth noting that £700m of this is at just 4 clubs: #MUFC £308m (now down to £101m at half-year), #AFC £167m, #MCFC £130m and #THFC £101m. Other clubs have much less, e.g. #BHAFC £1m. pic.twitter.com/hb3sjXucjk
— Swiss Ramble (@SwissRamble) March 24, 2020
Seems quite obscene to dip into furlough subsidies before you worked through that rainy day fund, right? Well, clubs could argue that those funds are waiting to see if they have to absorb a TV money refund if the season gets cancelled. Also, that cash pile isn’t evenly distributed. Manchester United are far more capable of weathering the storm than Bournemouth because they are a cash/money beast. However, all businesses want to be treated fairly, is it fair to ask United to pay out of their cash pile, but let Liverpool off the hook? Can you really punish clubs that planned well?
It’s a complicated question, which is why you have to rely on execs to make the correct ethical decision. In Germany, there’s more of a tie to the social contract the German people have with the game, so their clubs are acting in selfless ways. Their owners want to help. Liverpool’s Fenway Group bombed off the workers at the first opportunity, which runs counter to how they’ve behaved in the states where they own Boston Redsox and have donated $1m to the hourly workers. That’s about $770 for each of their 1300 staffers. Why? Was it league pressure? Or the fact that these execs aren’t going to get flack on their Virtual Country Club Cocktail Hours for stiffing Liverpool staff, but they’d get it in the ear for doing unethical things in their home town?
Who knows, it stinks regardless.
So there you have it, a splodge of grey to work through. My conclusion is that a lot of the decisions on how to work through this situation will be dependent on the ethics of the owners. Hopefully more clubs behave like Arsenal, United and Manchester City, we’ll see though, we’ll see.
Let me know YOUR thoughts in the comments.
UPDATE: Liverpool caved to some good old social shaming. Too fucking right.
P.S. Talking of supporting your own, Hammerton Brewery of North London need your support. They are basically asking you to drink beer and eat meat to support a local business. Go to their site here and order below.
We are still offering 10% off this week and have also added more locally cured meat from our friends @CobbleLaneCured Thank you all again for your amazing support over last few weeks🙏 #supportlocal https://t.co/bXZr640tsf pic.twitter.com/mpQy421VB5
— Hammerton Brewery (@HammertonBrew) April 2, 2020
Boom
2
3
Trofee
You heard it here 1st!
Looks like they’ve just done a u turn. What an embarrasing mess.
Shouldn’t have to embarrass them to do the right thing, they only do it when pressured.
Shame on them they have no ethics.
Supporters will vote with their feet
Pedro Excellent piece of writing. I just think you’re digging in with one side of the shovel only. Lets approach this rationally, shall we? This issue does need to be looked at from both sides. -Football clubs pay lots of taxes and have as much right as any other tax paying entity to use every legal resource to survive the pandemic. The pandemic is devastating the income of football clubs, they have just being slow to recognize this because they are caught up in the delusion that the season can still be ended in the summer. If companies in the… Read more »
The non-footballing workers are not restricted by income from getting government help but the millionaire players have more difficult contracts to break.
One thing that amazed me is the fact that TV contracts have clause if the season is cancelled but that the PFA made sure that it was illegal for clubs to include those very same clauses in players contracts. So how are club going to pay players if there is no revenue? All clubs should have added force cause major clauses in every contract to automatically slash players salary. I am not talking about clauses that kick in If the club is run by bozo the clown and can’t pay its debt. More something like Pandemic, long term nuclear or… Read more »
Dissenter, that’s why this is an interesting debate, right? You are looking at football as a normal business, whereas most of us see football clubs as something different. Football clubs have, what, say 15-20% of its staff on £500k a year or more. Arsenal employ 400 people. There aren’t many orgs that have 12.5-15% of their workforce earning that sort of cash. If they can afford to continue funding players at 30% reduction, they should be able to pick up the bill of the little guys. I see your point in tax receipts, but shouldn’t this gov bailout be going… Read more »
Pedro Nice piece. I think the football issue has to be looked at from two angles. The first is clubs furloughing low paid staff whilst still paying the players when as you’ve pointed out the non playing staff make up a fraction of the wage bill. If an Investment bank was doing the same type of thing people would go mental. The Government has to bring in a change to the rule where staff who can’t work are either all furloughed or none are – and laying off staff in this sort of instance will automatically be classed as constructive… Read more »
andy 1886 I can assure you that I do understand the basis for maintenance settlements,which as you point out are not based on “fault”. Boris and his ex wife were married for a very long time. His ex wife was a QC so presumably made a considerable contribution to the matrimonial home and family assets. Boris has made a very good living out of his writings and as a journalist, but the idea that he is mega rich is I am fairly sure not the case. I sympathise with those who are living on food banks, but to blame Boris… Read more »
The tax receipts of players is a drop in the ocean compared to what the Government has pumped into the economy / promised is available. Only a couple of days ago Matt Hancock wrote off £13 odd billion in historic NHS debt – that’s without all the other money being spent.
Even a couple of hundred million in tax receipts (that would also be annually not over the course of this) doesn’t really make a toss of difference.
Emirates
“Boris has made a very good living out of his writings and as a journalist, but the
idea that he is mega rich is I am fairly sure not the case.”
He is not mega rich – he comes from a very good background but went to Eton on a Scholarship – he does not come from the privileged back ground many assume.
GOVERNMENT plans to write-off billions of pounds of NHS hospital debt is like a “gang of burglars seeking gratitude after handing back some of the jewels they have stolen”, campaigners have warned. Hundreds of millions of pounds are owed by Camden patients’ three main NHS hospitals – including more than £240million in repayable loans at the Royal Free – are to be cancelled, according to health secretary Matt Hancock. He said on Friday that “nobody in our health service should be distracted by their hospital’s past finance” as he scrapped £13.4 billion of debts nationwide. But critics argue that NHS… Read more »
It’s not looking very good for Borris
What’s Boris Johnson’s net worth?
Boris Johnson has held several senior positions in the Government and the media throughout his career.
As an MP, Mr Johnson was entitled to a salary of £79,468, since April 1, 2019.
According to site Celebrity Net Worth, the Prime Minister has amassed a fortune of £3.1million, as of July 2019.
Part of the astronomical sum may come from the sale of his family home, which is believed to have sold for £3.7million.
He has since bought a £1.3million mansion with fiancee Carrie Symonds
Marc
Yeah Marc, Johnson is skint lol
This clown Marc always defends the super rich…lol
Emiratesstroller
Boris Johnson voted for public cuts to welfare and to freeze public sector wages.
To say he is no to blame is barmy…
Red
You are a fucking clown, a net worth of £3.1 million does not make you super rich.
You are a vile, twisted, bitter little cunt of a man (and I use that word loosely) who is so fucked up by others success that you blame everyone else for your miserable shitty little existence.
Look in the mirror scum.
Since returning as an MP in 2015, Johnson has consistently voted in support of austerity policies, according to the They Work for You website.
He almost always voted for a reduction in spending on welfare benefits, including a vote in 2016 in favour of reductions to the work allowance element of universal credit and reductions to employment and support allowance.
He consistently voted for reducing central government funding for local authorities, including most recently to vote to set the main central government grant for 2018-19 at a level 56% lower than it was set for 2017-18.
Marc
I can’t see a Nurse buying a £1.3m Mansion like dross Johnson
When he season is predictable cancelled, it will reveal the scope of financial blighting that premier league has been dealt with.
There are two issues; what to do with non playing staf an the core playing staff. They don’t have to be handled together.
Act one; furlough the lower paying staff for six months
Act two; use that as leverage to force the playing staff to get a wage cut, say for 3 months.
Problem is [like Valentin wrote], the contracts are not well written so renegotiating may nullify contracts.
*the season is predictably canceled
Johnson has done fuck all with his life. A shitty Journalist and an even shittier PM
Pedro Arsenal’s Board have been heavily criticised for accumulating a large bank balance since they built the stadium rather than spend some of the money on the team. That was incidentally a point that Swiss Ramble has made in the past albeit he had recognised that the bank balance which was available to spend on transfers was a lot less than £200 million [now dropped to £167 million]. Arsenal’s accounting is somewhat distorted because the end of the financial year is the 31st May and a large chunk of the club’s earnings from season tickets are paid in advance of… Read more »
Jeremy Corbyn net worth = £3 million – is he super rich?
https://www.spearswms.com/jeremy-corbyn-net-worth/
It’s also reported he has claimed £3 million in expenses as an MP – fan more than is usual.
Liverpool have reversed their decision to furlough non playing staff.
” I note that they have still not managed to find a sponsor who
is willing to pay Levy’s exorbitant stadium naming rights sponsorship.”
I offered a bag of Jelly beans to name the stadium “Kuntz”.
It’d be a great fit and the marketing guys would love it – “Proud to be Kuntz” – “We’ve always been Kuntz” – “biggest Kuntz in London” the list goes on and on.
RT
You are really pig ignorant. Government Ministers earn the same sort of money as your beloved [Jeremy Corbyn] earned as leader of opposition.
The difference is that Corbyn sat in the House of Commons for 40 years accumulating a huge pension pot for doing virtually nothing.
For the record it has just been announced that BORIS JOHNSON is now in intensive care so start showing the guy a little sympathy rather than your warped views about his politics.
Corbyn and Johnson are as different as chalk and cheese.
Corbyn is an honorably man a lifelong campaigner for justice and equality.
Johnson is an arsehole…
But their net worth’s are almost identical.
The only person here who has described Boris as ‘Super Rich’ is ES. I used the term ‘wealthy’ which he certainly is. There is a term for that kind of argument: “A straw man (or strawman) is a form of argument and an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent’s argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent.” Anyway, it looks like Boris is more ill than they were letting on as late as earlier this afternoon. He wouldn’t be my first choice as leader but I do hope that he… Read more »
Why didn’t Corbyn follow Dennis Skinner’s example and refuse to take a salary as an MP that’s more than his average constituents?
Anyway BoJo estimated fortune may become irrelevant if he succumb from the virus.
He has now been admitted in ICU as his condition worsen.
I despise the guy who was a lazy entitled opportunist but I would not wish such an unpleasant disease to him.
Corbyn’s wealth doesn’t blind him from not seeing the disadvantages that others suffer.
Johnson couldn’t give a toss about the poor.
RT
Your last post sums you up to a tee.
No-one with an ounce of decency would post what you have just written when the man is lying in hospital in “intensive care”.
It is really time that Pedro bins you permanently.
Emirates
It’s highly likely that Johnson has made his condition worse by over working and not taking it easy when he was clearly ill.
Whether you like him or agree with his politics you have to be a bigoted moron to not appreciate his dedication to what’s happened over the last few weeks.
Emiratesstroller
I’m not one for banning, but in your case i’ll make an exception.
andy1886
I did not describe Boris at any time as super rich. On the contrary I have believed that he is reasonably affluent who has made his living outside politics as a writer and journalist.
Most of his time over last 20 years has been spent as a politician or as Mayor of
London, where he has been on a fixed salary.
As I posted earlier today his current salary is less than half the weekly wage of
Ozil or less than one week’s wages of Mhitaryan and Aubameyang.
Marc, you have to ask questions of the people who are supposed to be looking after his health that they let him carry on when they should have insisted that he rest. Sometimes people need protecting from themselves.
RT
I don’t need to be banned, because when I read the posts of morons like you I have sadly come to the conclusion that perhaps I should stop reading Le Grove and posting here.
Frankly reading your latest posts and that of some others it is crystal clear to me that I should stop participating in this Website. I am at the point of doing
just that.
Stroller, in light of events I’m surprised that you want to continue with this debate but okay, you replied to me and I quote: “but the idea that he is mega rich is I am fairly sure not the case.”
As I never said that he was I’m afraid that comment is the very definition of a ‘straw man argument’, trying to debunk something that I never actually said.
So let’s get back to current events shall we wish the guy well as we would do with any human being who was in the same situation.
andy 1886 I never attributed comments about his wealth to you. There are plenty of others mainly by those who resent the man who are commenting on his wealth Just take a look at the posts of RT!!! Every politician in the House of Commons is obliged to disclose his financial interests and more importantly Government Ministers including Boris are required to divest their interests which are potential conflict. For the record two former Conservative Prime Ministers [Thatcher and May] elected to take only percentage of their Ministerial Income. Margaret Thatcher is believed to have received a pension of around… Read more »
Marc and Emiratesstroller don’t like it up ’em.
If you can’t stand the heat, get out of the kitchen
andy
Agree 100% on people needing to look after themselves / being made to. It’s probably part of the reason we’re seeing Doctor’s and Nurses who are otherwise healthy fall victim to this.
Prime Minister Boris Johnson has topped a list of MPs for outside earnings last year, raking in an additional £1.6m on top of his Westminster salary.
Emiratesstroller
You are a fuckin phoney for defending the indefensible
At the risk of unleashing the beast where is Un these days? Has he been binned?
andy
Nah mate my flies are well and truly secured – the beast is not being unleashed – at least for the time being.
DailyMail May 2014:
Mr Johnson pockets £250,000 a year for his weekly column in The Daily Telegraph.
Guardian, Sept.14th 2010:
The mayor of London, Boris Johnson, today faced calls to apologize for his “out of touch” comment that his £250,000 earnings for writing a weekly Telegraph column were “chicken feed”.
Must be the first time in living memory that it’s been more important to wash your hands before reaching for the zipper rather than afterwards….
andy
Nah mate – eating raw Chillies is that time.
ES, I don’t think that Maggie needed the pension do you? In 1992 she was hired by the tobacco company Philip Morris as a “geopolitical consultant” in 1992 for $250,000 per year and an annual contribution of $250,000 to her foundation. She also earned $50,000 for each speech she delivered, I seem to recall that she undertook an extensive speaking tour of the USA.
That isn’t unusual of course, but it hardly makes her a martyr either.
Annoying Voice: Nasal Keir Starmer Can’t Speak Properly Say Voters MACCLESFIELD – England – Keir Starmer and his nasal droning voice puts off voters as he bids to become the next Labour leader. comrade keir starmer soviet Comrade Keir Starmer, Labour anti-democratic Remainer Marxist Soviet EU Adjutant It’s like hearing a voice through a cotton wool tuba, that is the truly annoying blackboard scraping sound of listening to Labour politician, Keir Starmer, who hopes to become the next leader of the socialist party of Britain. “I can’t listen to him, as soon as he comes on, I switch to another… Read more »
Red, I’m sure most Labour voters are just happy they’re not voting for a student politics anti-semite.
They’ll deal with the voice.
Pedro
They did in the last election – they voted Tory!
Pedro some of the above comments are very inflammatory not worthy of this site. The usual suspect.
Marc, watching Richard Burgeon land his marching order is going to be as satisfying as watching momentum crumble into nothing over the next few months.
Seems like lots of UK drama going on here. Wish I could add to what appears to be a shit show as well.
OTOH the good ole USA broke 10K for deaths today.
Trump the new MD apparently
GunsofSF
“Trump the new MD apparently”
Apparently he wrote a PhD thesis in Hydroxychloroquine or he just owns massive shares in big pharma.
Spanishdave
“Pedro some of the above comments are very inflammatory not worthy of this site. The usual suspect.”
You too write a lot of provocative stuff. Your glasshouse must be made with armored glass.
Oh yea… Trumps press conference yesterday was another shit show.
Its a daily thing now…
All I know is Im working on this Corona Bod at home and its freaking sucks.
lol
As soon as it stops raining tomorrow… time for another 5 mile walk. Need to do that daily since the Gym is shut!
Two things are for sure after all this
Income tax will increase
National Insurance will increase
Employees on P A Y E will be paying through the nose
At first I thought Boris was faking it…
Was wrong hope he gets better soon.
I’m a labour man, but not sure on sir kier.
He is just another clone of Blair.
It’s his past work as cud chief that really lets him down.
Hill wood
Massive redundancies in all industries over the next 12 months.
This ain’t even the start of the shit that’s gonna happen.
RSPCA
Yep
Selling up and emigrating to one of Jupiter’s moon’s seems like a plan at the mo
Or if things get really bad…..
Lincolnshire
RSPC, he’s just another ‘ your most successful leader’ ever?
Pedro Some good posts lately: kudos for your writing skills and ability to keep the post running. ES “I have sadly come to the conclusion that perhaps I should stop reading Le Grove and posting here.” Bye bye and with you goes entitled condescension, pomposity at the highest level and a child like man in his 70s who thinks he’s never wrong or should never be criticised for points posted that others don’t agree with. The only poster who continually suggests or asks Pedro to bin people other than Bamford who is no longer with us. As for your, “Boris… Read more »
RT
I would have to side with Marc and Stroller on this one.
The politician’s salaries are actually miniscule compared to the private sector.
I am sure all of them have their own side gig; if that is a criteria everyone is disqualified.
Dark Hei
Blair made millions after he was PM; Boris will do the same.
Politicians use their political position during and post their tenures to further their business interests while also using their positions to broaden their networking process.
They crave power and position having already accumulated reasonable wealth, so a politician’s salary is not important to them.
No different to the US politicians leaving politics to work for companies and orgs on bloated salaries because of their previous government position.
For the record it has just been announced that BORIS JOHNSON is now in intensive care so start showing the guy a little sympathy rather than your warped views about his politics.
—————
I make it a rule not to get involved in another nation’s politics and I literarily don’t know anything about Johnson’s either.
That said, wasn’t he the covid 19 minimizer in chief who ignored experts recommendations and insisted on shaking hands with coronavirus patients?
Since when does stupidity deserve sympathy?
Clubs furloughing their low level ordinary joes whilst leaving their stars remuneration untouched is a bit like treating a flea bite whilst ignoring the shark ripping your legs off.
Liverpool changing tack is good news but did they really need to act like they did in the first place?
Spurs will always do the wrong thing so no surprises there. Hopefully the stadium debt they’re carrying compounded by non football revenue generating events being cancelled will increase their pain meaning they have to economise on their squad.
Tom
Spot on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-7IHOXkiV8&list=RDEMMJROcMAX1Cv2xgA9GBboSg&start_radio=1
Really like this band Kaleo found it when training in my gym.
If you add this song to You Tube you should get some crazy good bands: write/search Kaleo then add this song if the above link doesn’t play the below bands after “way down we go” track
Imagine Dragons
Ches Faker
Black Pumas
Felix Roy
Camia Cabelo
+ many more
May their eyes grow dim so that they cannot see, And make their loins shake continually.
Im telling you this for free!
Tony
I agree with everything!
Hmmm….I think between here and there everyone is actually in agreement just that we do not know it.
In the Mirror online-Viera vs granny shagger in World Cup quarter finals of premier league greats.GET YOUR VOTES in boys.just to piss off manure fans.
Dawn Butler-Richard Burgon-Dianne Abbott-Barry Gardiner.
All self isolating indefinitely.
“I make it a rule not to get involved in another nation’s politics. and I literarily don’t know anything about Johnson’s either…” How would you “get involved” in another nations’ “politics”, even if you wanted to? Is using google about a topic “getting involved”? Not getting involved with ≠ being ignorant about. “That said, wasn’t he the covid 19 minimizer in chief who ignored experts recommendations and insisted on shaking hands with coronavirus patients? Since when does stupidity deserve sympathy?” Getting infected while doing a publicity stunt so pathetically transparent that even trump would be embarrassed? My sympathies are reserved… Read more »
Spurs flushing what was left of there reputation, down the wolds biggest toilet they’ve just built 🤣. I really hope the UK government tell them to do one, then spus have to sell most of there better players. Then end up back where they belong in mid table mediocrity.
Download every match from the 1970 WC:
http://www.forum.fullmatch.ir/index.php?/topic/145-fifa-world-cup-1970/
The inertia continues.
Have to hand it to Pete – no football (and no transfers) but he still motivates himself to churn out top drawer content every couple days. Amazing, really. Appreciate it!
Some share prices starting to rise,
William hill up by 10 percent
Macsonalds shares going up and they are closed.
Impressed with what the US and Germany are doing to avert disaster and restart their economies.
China comes out of this mess as an emerging superpower if there was any remaining doubt.
That said, it would be naive to think the virus will not float around the world until a cure is available.
The backlash against Liverpool shows the difference in thought process of the haves and have not.
Stroller I’d you could invest today
What would that be in…
Same question goes out to all
Keir Starmer has picked fellow bunged up noses Ed Miliband and Rachel Reeves to be in his shadow cabinet….lol disaster.
This is very embarrassing
watford are richer than us.
The dream of the new stadium has finally died.
Wow
We are Aston Villa.
Stroller 13.34.
MID WYNDD Investment trust.
Scottish Mortgage Investment trust.
Anything Bio technology and World healthcare.
And not forgetting cloud computing much more
People working from home after this.
And RSPC.
It’s strange how there’s no agreement yet in regards to the 30% wage cut for PL players.
Just read that the commercial/retail revenue lose for the big 6 team if the season is cancelled:
Manure…………………………. £50.8m
Man City……………………….. £41.7m
Pool……………………………….. £33.8m
Chelsea………………………… £30.9m
SPUDs…………………………… £24.3m
Arsenal………………………… £19.4m
Knowing that Arsenal was a big team and based in London, the performance in the commercial side is very disappointing.
Is anybody else bored absolutely shitless with all of this?
Just play all the games behind closed doors already ffs.
Nelson
What’s included in those figures and does it include the same things for all of the clubs?
‘Is anybody else bored absolutely shitless with all of this?Just play all the games behind closed doors already ffs.”
There can’t be football so long as some clubs have furloughed non-playing staff. There are lots of staff required to prepare teams for games, even is they are held behind closed doors.
Yesterday , I saw the video of Bayern players training together with social distancing, They might as well have been training from home and communicating via web cams.
Benny devito 14.29.
I have just seen a video that is going round of a leading
London hospital this afternoon.
There are black body bags on the floor going from room to room
piled on top of each other.
And you make a statement like that.
Horrendous was the only word I could use with what I have just seen.
.