A not so happy Friday for most of us, the loss last night was hard to stomach. Olympiacos were not elite opposition and we’d already done the hard job in Greece, we really should have been able to drive that victory home and keep our Champions League hopes alive.
So where do we start on this one? For me, the key issue was fatigue. The players looked leggy and tired and that filtered into the stands. That was our 4th game in 11 days, which is a lot, but it’s something we knew about and unfortunately, we didn’t seem prepared for the realities of it.
The starting 11 should have been rotated. I understand that Arteta would have been critiqued whatever happened if a loss came out the back end, but I think he pushed the starting 11 too far in this one and the output was inviting for the Greeks.
That said, I don’t this was an effort issue. We weren’t witnessing players not giving a fuck, they just weren’t at the races physically. They still fought until the 2 minute of added-on time in extra time. The cost of fatigued players came in the form of a key injury to the freshly rejuvenated Mustafi. It’ll also now have a knock-on effect mentally. Tired legs after a soul-destroying loss will feel heavier.
The second criticism would have to centre around the subs. Ceballos for Torreira didn’t really do much for our attacking threat, LT just isn’t very good at penetrating the lines and when he’s pushing forward it takes him longer to get back. Joe Willock proved ineffectual when he joined the program, he’s just not there yet, he must be doing something incredible in training because we’re not really getting enough from him on the pitch.
The big one that we waited and waited for was the introduction of Gabriel through the middle. I really like Lacazette, he’s a good guy, offers great vibes in training, but he really, really struggles against powerhouse centre backs. Last night he was in the main totally neutralised by the Greeks hulking centre back pairing. I thought he’d turned the corner, that wasn’t clear last night. I thought the moment that summed up his season was a delicious fake from Ozil that fell to him in space, his shot blazed out of the stadium. 2 years ago he’s finding the net.
Arteta didn’t sub him until the second half of injury time. Now, I can see the idea here, the Greeks were fading badly, Gabriel is a hand-grenade on the pitch, and sure enough, he was, his nodded head in the box setup the Auba scissor kick. The game stays the same and it’s a celebrated substitute timed really well.
Football is a beast though, a Bernd Leno mistake started a domino effect of fuck ups that let them back in. Then, last gasp, Auba puts wide a chance he’d score 9 times out of 10.
Overall, we lost because of a lack of quality in the final third combined with customary defensive errors we’ve been making for 10 years (so, errr, everything). The attacking issues are of more concern. We had 19 shots and only found the target 4 times. This wasn’t a case of ‘well, we were reduced to poor quality chances’, this was bad misses (xG 1.5 (Ars) – 1 (Oly)).
two-legged xG map for Arsenal – Olympiakos
football is a good sport that people like for good reasons pic.twitter.com/3IFUHKqvUC
— Caley Graphics (@Caley_graphics) February 28, 2020
The Greeks gave us possession and we didn’t know how to use it. We really struggled with the deep block and we didn’t have the confidence to invite them on. We chased the second goal because we knew that’s what we had to do. Imagine if that game was reversed, do you think the Greeks would have played like? Doubtful. They’d have sat back, invited us to attack, then spring a counter-attack.
… but we have to move on.
The ghouls will be out for the new manager, that’s just par the course these days. If you only come out of your box for the losses, you have to ask yourself some serious questions. The path to a brighter future was never going to be perfect, the damage to this season was set in motion 18 months ago. You don’t undo the problems in two months. Also, find me a single manager in the world of football that would pick up this group of players in this moment and breeze the season. You wouldn’t. All managers make mistakes, it’s how you find out what your squad is made of, it’s how you learn where the limits are. We are barely 2.5 months into this new chapter.
What did we really learn from last night? There is still a lot of work to do on the defence. We are terrible from setpieces. There are still a lot of individual errors that you can’t afford at the highest level. There are some players that don’t look capable physically at this current moment. Bukayo Saka still looks the business, but even he had his bad moments last night as the panic set in. Next season, it’ll be a different mix. Saliba will join, we’ll probably buy a player like Upemacano, and if Mari is any good, he might be a fixture. We’ll also be looking at right back.
It is also very clear that our midfield needs work. We need better athletes. I think this has been an agenda item for years. We need to look towards power and pace. Players like Denis Zakaria and Wilfred Ndidi never seem to find their way towards Arsenal. Even Bruno Guimarães, a huge fave in the comments here, looked brilliant in the Champions League in the week. Arsenal need to go young and really make sure our midfield represents what the league looks like in 2020.
On the positives, the squad is still working for the cause. You couldn’t put that game down to a lack of effort. The players powered through the redzone in a game they were clearly finding very tough. I’m not here feeling disgusted, I’m just burned by the way things went down. The Auba chance at the end said it all about the new mindset, even if it didn’t come off.
Success is very rarely a straight line, if that’s what you were expecting from the new regime picking up this bag of shit season, then you were setting yourself up for a failure. This was always going to be a long preseason. There is plenty to do right now and there will be big changes in the summer as the squad is reshaped in the vision of someone that actually has a vision. The manager has found out that he pushed his squad too far last night, now he has to deal with the mess. In his press conference after he was very focused on the idea that he has to lift the players for Monday’s game against Brighton. That was our first loss of 2020, the next test is the character of the squad and the power of the managers leadership to get them back winning and making themselves a nuisance in the race for top 5.
A huge challenge, so let’s see where he goes. Onwards people, onwards. Podcast below and the prezzer from Arteta.
“If you’re only here when we lose, you’re not much of a fan, or you’re so lost in your Emery trauma you can’t see the light.” First off you accused me of this yesterday and i simply ignored it because you are such a touchy fella I have always posted here even in games we won, it is possible there wasn’t really much to talk about then or heaven forbid i had a few things going on in my life and work taking my time. I think you are projecting your glee at bad results under Emery onto others. The… Read more »
Gunner
So you pick losing in a Europa league Final over a Champions league Final as more disappointing…lol…you clown..
Next weekend the Spud’s are away at Burnley who have been on a good run of form. Chelsea have Everton and ManU play Man City. Things go our way and we could be in touching distance with a game in hand.
The players aren’t good. But they can be organized and motivated in to a better unit than. We have been. We could be tactically better and more solid. Wenger couldn’t do it and nor could emery. Arteta might be able to. Maybe. But there will Be limits and bad games. And he may fail. Emery already had. So had wenger. Arteta May be a ooor here but it seems to Most that keeping the others – one of whom bought many similar average players is not the right move. As my old boss used to say “ doing nothing is… Read more »
“but you should know that these players currently at Arsenal have let other managers down in the long run and these are very early days to be proclaiming changes for significant improvement.“ This is such a nuanced argument that’s forever being simplified, and I dont agree with that aspect of it and think it inevitably ends up with fans crafting a view of a player and then setting it in stone. It’s foolish. Do we need better players? Yes, always, we will always need better as its a necessary cycle/evolution for literally every team in world football. Not one ends… Read more »
“Now we have Arteta who is taking/aiming to take a path we’ve been crying out for for years now”
What path is this? What is this you see that everyone else can’t?
What is this thing he has done that has never been done before under the past two managers?
Pedro
You explicitly stated many times that Emery should have been succeeding with this group of players and that “player poverty” was no excuse. You are now explicitly pleading player poverty (16:12:58).
How is this not a contradiction?
Johnno, the point you made there is what most of us have been saying. The squad is where it is because of bad coaching and neglect.
Do we need new players? Sure. No one doubts that. But we should also be doing a lot better than our current position. If Arteta was here in May, we’d be going through a different sort of challenge. He wasn’t, so now he’s gotta work with the dire situation and rescue what he can.
Keep it together Bournemouth
Charlie just wondering what has been addressed since Arteta came in. Genuine question.
“How many players do you guys think we can 1) sell from our core group of 12-13 players 2)sell from our overall squad” Good question, Caz. My own take is that we will sell far fewer players than most expect. Although I totally accept we have too many liabilities on the books, I fear we will only get of perhaps three or four in the summer. This partly because our parlous finances means we are “forced sellers” and other clubs can make cut-price offers. Some bids are likely to be unrealistic which if accepted, will inevitably mean we will have… Read more »
Charlie I prefered Arteta coming in to either Mourinho or an Ancelotti. There is a freshness about it even if we know it comes with risk. But there are certain actions I want to see from him in the summer that will make me really believe in him. I don’t want to see him becoming another Wenger and sitting on players that are clearly not good enough. I want him to show a ruthless streak. Of course this can’t be done in one summer but I expect at least one precision change for the first team in the summer that… Read more »
“What path is this? What is this you see that everyone else can’t?“
You’re not everyone else, stop trying to buttress your pov with an appeal to false consensus. Arteta has come in and is addressing the defensive foundation of the entire XI. It wasn’t done under Wenger, and sure as hell wasnt under Emery.
He understands football, is laying the necessary foundations to build something of substance on. It’s really quite basic to anyone with more than a passing interest.
Marko
Not a fan of Ozil myself but to be honest there’s nobody else who can play the no 10 role in our current team.
Auba plays wide because he has this ability to hang off the shoulder of the opposition full back and make an inward run towards the goal. His goal against Everton was a classic example of what he can do from wide position. Laca can’t play anywhere else except the central forward role. Again not saying it’s necessarily a right decision but I can see the logic behind it.
No one is doubting Arteta knows the game, he has played it at a very high level Does he know what good coaching and player management is? You bet he does, he has spent the past three years under Guardiola, one of the most demanding coaches/managers in world football. But right now he is facing a different challenge, changing a culture, being his own man, knowing when to be ruthless and when a player just needs an arm around his shoulder, deciding who has it and who doesn’t. This is a whole new challenge for him and many a great… Read more »
Bamford, your ‘poverty’ comment was relating to the views that our squad was incapable of top 4.
In our worst season of all time, this squad could be 4 points from top 4 if we win our Brighton game. I’d not call that squad poverty, I’d call that a missed opportunity because we stuck it out with a shit head coach we should have fired in the summer.
Read somewhere that Arsenal have never defeated English club in European knockout stages. Is it true??
Mad scenes at Bayern vs Hoffenheim, stopped playing from toxic banner the Bayern ultras put up. Neuer on the center circle passing ball with opposition.
“Do we need new players? Sure. No one doubts that. But we should also be doing a lot better than our current position”
Exactly – these players might not be the quality we won’t and we all have players we like or dislike in the current squad but the simple fact is they are all highly paid professionals who have not produced at the required level and they should be doing a lot better.
You’d think there’s be a bit of personal pride when they see Chelsea, ManU and the Spud’s all being inconsistent.
Anyone seen Thomas the Chelsea mug?
sal
When you say toxic are we talking racist, homophobic, Antiemetic?
“Arteta has come in and is addressing the defensive foundation of the entire XI. ”
We gave up 17 shots to Everton at home and are out of the Europa league because we conceded two goals to Olympiakos at home.
An analysis from twitter was posted on here by Azed that shows that although the number of shots faced has reduced, the quality of the shots allowed has increased. We have been incredibly lucky defensively for weeks now and ran out of luck on Thursday.
Ishola
He’s already come out and stated he’s looking at options for the summer, so trying to get ahead of him by saying you dont want any Wenger bollocks like ‘we have a good squad’ is really unnecessary.
Arteta has a vision of how to play the game, he will have a desire to shape the squad into supporting this vision. Changes are inevitable. It’s suitability > talent.
RH, Everton had two weeks off to prepare for that game, we were on our 3rd game of the week and we still won. Context is key
Un
Whilst I agree with your sentiment 100% I do need to depress myself and point out we do have some very difficult fixtures in the last 7.
Chelsea equalise – bollocks!
Not a fan of Ozil myself but to be honest there’s nobody else who can play the no 10 role in our current team.
He can’t even play it himself.
Again not saying it’s necessarily a right decision but I can see the logic behind it.
Right but the problem with it for me is logic goes right out the window when you consider how poorly Ozil and Lacazette is playing and how impressive Auba is when he floats in centrally.
fuck
Marc
Fortunately not racist, banner called Hoffenheim owner a Son of a bitch.
Which didn’t go down well with anyone, Hansi Flick went across pitch to corner asking them to roll it up. Players then stopped playing.
Bloody hell spoke too soon
“This is what we should have done last year but emery wanted his cup glory, selfish fucker that he was. ”
His cup glory??
The same cup many are gutted we crashed out of on Thursday?
You do realize we failed to beat Palace at home thanks to a Mustafi disaster class and Brighton thanks to Xhaka escorting a player all the way into the penalty box just to haul him down. Or should we revisit the Auba penalty loss at Spurs?
Cc
We also need to remember that chances are it’ll take more than one summer to get a squad that’s completely what Arteta wants.
sal
Oh obviously the Germans are a lot more sensitive than I thought!
RH, maybe there wouldn’t have been a disaster class if Emery could coach those players and build a structure that could support them
“RH, Everton had two weeks off to prepare for that game, we were on our 3rd game of the week and we still won. Context is key”
Defensively solid teams don’t give away 17 shots at home, tiredness or not. I don’t need any context. That’s the point, we aren’t defensively solid, the more we have tried to play the more we have given away chances and goals.
Marc
Great technique to combat the racist bullshit that goes on in certain leagues, notably the Serie A.
Just stop playing and have a kick about on center circle.
Receding I’m content with my own view of the game thanks, not that interested in you desperately picking at threads. You were besotted with average last year and now you name drop xG every other day in a bid of absolution. When we’re miles better next season I’ll circle back to the fact Arteta knew what the fuck he was doing the moment he arrived and was busy laying the foundations for success that I’ve referenced already. It’ll also once again prove that what I’m capable of observing is oodles more accurate than yourself and you’ll naturally chuck a few… Read more »
“RH, maybe there wouldn’t have been a disaster class if Emery could coach those players and build a structure that could support them”
Or maybe a coach should be able to trust Xhaka not to haul players down in his own box, do you even remember that foul, it was brain dead, had nothing to with structure. You keep talking about support like Arsenal is an orphanage, these are professional international footballers.
We had a structure in place to support them on Thursday if i am to go by you and Charles’s assertions, what happened?
RH, you’ll not convince many of your view that fatigue doesn’t affect performance at the highest level. It’s pure nonsense.
sal
I’m 100% behind anything that stops that sort of shit – it’ll be interesting in what punishment Dele Alli gets.
“We also need to remember that chances are it’ll take more than one summer to get a squad that’s completely what Arteta wants.“
Never said otherwise. But in one summer we can drastically alter the makeup of the squad to be more suited to Arteta’s football vision.
Two new central players would completely overhaul the potential of this current side for instance.
Un
I agree with the exception of the Spud’s away – we can win that.
It’s not going to be easy but we can do it.
RH, Mustafi and Xhaka have been two of the best players under Arteta, that is a fact.
What changed? Good coaching.
Marc
Hoping for a lifetime ban, and mandatory removal to and island nation in Antartica.
2 points dropped by Chelsea, good stuff.
“When we’re miles better next season I’ll circle back to the fact Arteta knew what the fuck he was doing the moment he arrived and was busy laying the foundations for success that I’ve referenced already .It’ll also once again prove that what I’m capable of observing is oodles more accurate than yourself and you’ll naturally chuck a few “abeg’s” in there and the world will continue its rotation as you suck your thumb.” And to think you lecture Bamford on what to write and not to write on here. You are already seeing a future where you say “I… Read more »
Cc
Wasn’t starting a row was agreeing with you.
Big win for West Ham.
We are where we are because of bad scouting and crazy £350k a week contracts to ordinary players like Ozil…
Saucy Moyes….
Beat West Ham, 5 points from 4th with 10 games to go.
That’s spitting distance.
Still doubt our chances, but there we go
Not sure if or why Charles is ignoring my question but I’ll take a stab at what he said originally. I assume that he meant the defensive issues have been addressed (if I’m wrong I apologise). They haven’t. At all.
Pedro
Remember it’s 5th for CL this season!
Charlie
“Two new central players would completely overhaul the potential of this current side for instance.”
On the button there.
Central core midfielder sets the tone for the whole team.
Let’s see him do it.
Our next 4 fixtures are as favorable as its gets in the Prem, if were going to get close it’ll be in those.
Everyone ahead of us will have mid weekers, sliver linings boys.
Marko, you’ve been watching Arteta’s Arsenal and you haven’t recognised a single defensive improvement? Same as when Emery was in charge?
It’s so tight at the bottom of the table – I’d say currently anyone below Newcastle are involved.
Having a structure and philosophy doesnt mean you’re immune to poor performances. We’ve conceded 4 goals from set pieces in 2 games, that will drive Arteta mad because it almost cost us a game vs Everton and it fucked us in Europe on away goals. But everything that’s being worked on now will reinforce our chances with time, in 12 games there’s a litany of ‘first time’ situations this team will face with new instructions to take on board. Mistakes are inevitable, poor judgment inevitable, failure inevitable. Sitting and claiming the whole process fallacious because fruits aren’t bore within 2… Read more »
“RH, Mustafi and Xhaka have been two of the best players under Arteta, that is a fact.” Mustafi speaking in the middle of our unbeaten run last season (14 games in) “Shkodran Mustafi has praised Arsenal head coach Unai Emery for providing the club with a potent mix of “freedom and discipline” that has helped them to avoid defeat in their last 14 matches. Mustafi said Emery’s detailed tactical instructions have allowed him to perform better as an individual and also made the team a more solid defensive unit.” “For me personally, the biggest thing is that he is someone… Read more »
Marc, I know, which will make us missing out all the more disappointing.
Pedro he said addressed. Like it’s over we’re okay. We’re not it’s still an area that needs to be addressed and improved upon. 3 clean sheets two of which were at home doesn’t change much.
RH, no one, and I mean no one, has looked at Xhaka and Mustafi in the last 3 years and thought them top drawer. Pulling Daily Mail quotes won’t convince anyone of that.
Arteta has both of them playing at a different level.
Un
All of Chelsea, the Spud’s and ManU have been all over the place this season.
You also missed off that the Spud’s play Wolves tomorrow – not an easy game either.
Sooner we’re out of the fa cup the better. Focus on the league it’s our best chance
“Read somewhere that Arsenal have never defeated English club in European knockout stages. Is it true??”
That would be down to Wenger’s inept management style…
Un, don’t do it to yourself
“Arteta has both of them playing at a different level.”
No he hasn’t
You seem to think players not falling over that own feet is a higher level
“RH, no one, and I mean no one, has looked at Xhaka and Mustafi in the last 3 years and thought them top drawer.”
No one thinks they are top drawer now either
Pedro
“Arteta has both of them playing at a different level.”
Mate please stop saying that – you’re tempting fate and the Football God’s love to bite us in the arse!
And its clearly imperative we finish above United, for a host of reasons.
Un
Chelsea also have Liverpool in the Cup on Tuesday so they’ve got a real fixture pileup to deal with.
Pedro
Mustafi is a garbage player. He hasn’t turned a corner here. He has had a few impressive performances under Wenger and Emery too but not before long he reverted to type.
TR7, straight red, 6 game ban.
Pedro if you are advocating keeping the central midfield in place next season then that is disappointing and will lead to ultimate failure.
Come on Charlie is now wanting to see a makeover and revamp in central midfield.
We don’t want Arteta indulging with the current central midfield going into next season.
Arteta has both of them playing at a different level.
Their previous level was shite so yes I suppose that’s correct
Marc, Mustafi injury should mean Mari comes in and proves he’s elite… then it’s bench for the German.
Un
Well the Spud’s are missing Son and Kane so that could make a difference tomorrow.
Ish, not sure I’ve ever advocated for such a thing.
Yellow card for dissent.
“Mustafi is a garbage player. He hasn’t turned a corner here. He has had a few impressive performances under Wenger and Emery too but not before long he reverted to type.”
I rest my case
Still don’t condone the use of the word garbage though, he has given us some immense performances but at the end of the day he is still Mustafi and will get you in the end.
Pedro
It’s not the German I’m worried about!
Woah let’s not just ditch the FA Cup.
1. We are the FA Cup KINGS. Let’s win it yet again and get further clear of next most winners Man Utd
2. We may be grateful for the EL qualification the winners receive
3. Love winning trophies!
Looks like Pedro needs his afternoon nap – he’s getting card happy!
“Marc, Mustafi injury should mean Mari comes in and proves he’s elite… then it’s bench for the German.”
why would you want a top drawer player operating at an elite level on the bench? And all this Mari build up better pay off at the end.
Whoa ….Xhaka’s passing which was always overrated has drastically declined under Arteta and as for the rest of his game, it’s still as inept as it’s always been…
A new player is most likely to be required for CM next season anyway with Ceballos toddling off back to Spain.
His replacement should be a core CM that dictates for Arsenal in the centre.
This move will be the first in the Arteta jigsaw to greatness.
Un Na
“We can beat every one of these teams.”
Yeah, I remember when you lot were saying we could beat the likes of Inter, Leverkusen, Sevilla and Roma. Turns out we couldn’t beat Olympiakos at home.
Yeah I agree with Chris on the Cup.
We should be able to beat Portsmouth with a heavily rotated team, winning is a habit. We can then see who we draw in the next round and cross that bridge when we come to it.
West Ham have too many decent players to be relegated, and if they do they’d be the first place to look for a good deal on one or two.
Felipe Anderson in particular could suits us nicely, Pablo Fornals was previously linked although I’m not convinced.
Bamford
Don’t be a dickhead. We got a shit result in the week it does happen.
ManU lost at home in the league to Burnley only a month or so ago.
Un’s being positive about the Arsenal – nothing wrong with that.
I see AKB’s are dismissing the FA Cip for fear of losing to Portsmouth lol
“Come on Charlie is now wanting to see a makeover and revamp in central midfield.“ I wanted CM addressed last summer, where have you been? We were losing Ramsey, Torreira was bitching about the weather and his love for Italy, so I wanted to see both of them replaced and Elneny jettisoned. Still dont think Torreira suits us, even less so now Arteta is in charge. Would cash in on him for a Partey-type signing, and send Ceballos and his dead trim back to Spain for Grealish with his luscious locks and infant shin pads. Tell me Xhaka – Partey… Read more »
Un
Do you know when Kane is due back?
I fully accept that Xkaha has improved. But from what low point are we calculating ?
He is a liability. His passing is very poor for a central midfielder, most of his passes are sideways or back to the CBs, He cannot tackle and does not score anywhere near enough. His spatial awareness is exceptionally bad, he does not track runners and his disciplinary record is atrocious. Xkaha is always a heart-beat away from a booking in every game – which is a liability in any team game.
A very poor, sub-standard player.
banford the yanky uberfan
Charlie
You have left yourself down now.
The core midfielder in this current Arsenal team must be replaced.
And we know who that core midfielder has been.
Can you explain how having Partey and Xhaka in the same side makes any sense when one of them can play the same role and is clearly superior?
MarcFebruary 29, 2020 17:16:06
BamfordDon’t be a dickhead. We got a shit result in the week it does happen.
This 👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻Good man mark with a C
👆🏻👆🏻Yes to both.
Un
Midweek was a disaster and we’ve all analysed the match and our shortcomings etc but on another day Auba scores that last minute chance or we get a goal earlier in the match. It doesn’t go down as a classic or even a particularly good performance but how often do people remember every result on the way to a Cup final?
Ishola
Because I’m of the view you replace from the ground up aka worst to best all things being equal. I know it hurts your fanny dearly, but Xhaka is the best CM we have at the club.
No issue at all if he’s replaced or used to generate money, but I’d sooner bin the ones I deem lesser suited or poorer players. Torreira and Ceballos fit that bill, both powder puff, both slow, and we stand to gain more by replacing them than we do Xhaka.
Disagree if you like but the logic of why is self evident.
Grealish is a very good player. Not sure he will be interested in a move to Arsenal. He is going to cost a fortune too.
“but Xhaka is the best CM we have at the club. ”
Oh dear – the meds have worn off!
Marc Being “positive” is all well and good, but being realistic is better. This group of players has disappointed time and time again, and there is little to no reason to believe they are going to be challenging for 4th or 5th. Arsenal fans are better off being warned about this than they are believing in false hopes. IMO, at least. It’s like that poor old timer who wrote on here the other day. A certain narrative got his hopes up, then this group went out and smashed his heart to pieces by losing to Olympiakos at the Emirates. That… Read more »
Lol follows a football team but doesnt engage with the ‘hope’ that is the meat and drink of every fan.
You’re doing it wrong mate.
Bamford
Sorry but you don’t understand what supporting a club is about. If you can’t imagine the impossible why bother in which case 90% of clubs would disappear.