This Joan Garcia kid was MOTM tonight vs Athletico. He also won Gold with Spain at the Olympics.
The mad thing is he is valued at €800k by the transfermarkt website 😂😂😂. And all their arrivals this summer have been on loan. No permanent transfers.
I now have a suspicion Arteta and Edu had a green light that a 10 to 15m fee could be agreed and that is why they left it this late. A £10m transfer might actually mean a lot to them. Let's see.
Is it correct to say if I buy a player for 10m on a 10 year deal, but the payment structure is 8m up front and 2m after 1 year, that our accounting is instead going to say it’s just 1m per year over 10 years? And if so, why?
Honestly the way accounting is done in football confuses the hell out of me
So clubs can still offer long contracts, but the maximum they can now amortise a transfer is over 5 years.
When clubs buy players they amortise that transfer fee over the length of the contract.
But when they sell players, they book the price straight away for accounting terms, even if they don’t get all the money straight away.
Academy players don’t have any book price, so they’re sold for pure profit.
But say we buy a player for £50 million, and amortised that over 5 years.
That would be £10 million a year added to the balance sheet.
If we sold that player for £50 million in 3 years, we’d record a £30 million operational profit, and remove the outstanding £20 million amortisation from our balance sheet.
If we sold that player for £10 million after 3 years, we’d have to write down a £10 million operating loss.
So if Arsenal sold Big Gabby, Saliba, Martinelli, it would be the equivalent of selling an academy player, because they don’t have any outstanding amortisation.
What determines whether clubs record an operating profit or loss, is what’s left on the balance sheet at the time of sale.
Thanks for the explanation so this means in my example of a 10m player on a 10 year contract whereby Arsenal pay 8 today and 2 next summer, we would instead record it as 2m per year for 5 years?
Am I missing something because clearly it’s factually incorrect accounting. It’s literally wrong. It’s -8 then -2, then 0 outstanding.
This accounting model makes no sense and is ripe for exploitation just as we have seen with Chelsea
Rather than use a nonsensical system which is so messy and needs to be constantly monitored for loopholes, why not just use accounting founded in reality?
If the goal of PSR is to ensure clubs are operating sustainably, surely have an accounting model founded into facts would be a good place to start rather than using a model where it’s basically creative accounting crap in a system which can be easily gamed
That the PL wants to encourage clubs to use home grown players whilst at the same time PSR basically rewards clubs for prioritizing sales of their academy players over other players is also at direct conflict
When I bought my apartment the lender did a credit check for me to ensure I could afford it. They found I could.
Bought it with a 36 year mortgage. I am allowed pay about 20% of the mortgage off each year if I want to so I could hypothetically pay off the mortgage in several years if I had enough money.
At this point if I wanted to buy another property with a mortgage, the lender when they do their credit check would see I have no outstanding loan from the previous place. They’re not going to say ‘ah but what about the remaining 30 odd years of the previous mortgage you still have to pay?’ Because it doesn’t exist anymore
I accept there may be something I’m missing but it honestly looks like football accounting is total nonsense completely ungrounded in reality and that appears to be making a right mess of things.
That is the accounting that will help us comply with PSR and FFP. And it might actually help in recruiting a forward because of the room it will give us to spend.
What I am also saying is, the reports that we might have to trigger his release clause might be wide of the mark.
And it might actually be in their interest to sell us a keeper so that they can have money to play with. Their whole squad is valued at €65m. €15m would actually be like 1/4 of their squad value. And we might actually get it done for less that half of the release clause.
We have money. Seems the problem is getting a forward we really like that's available, and agrees to play behind Saka for Mikel No-Rotate-Teta.
I don't think we should downgrade on our keepers just to save 10-15m, which is actually nothing.
Imagine the whole title challenge in the prem and Champions league in 2024/25 both go down the tubes because Raya gets injured, because we pulled a Levy and focused on saving a bit of money.
Arsenal have replaced our starting xi in last few seasons and our sales for £10 million + in last few seasons are - flo, guen, xhaka, willock and ? Player sales this summer balancing books, we couldn't afford Raya last summer.
And Rice deal was bad as well - Hammers wanted more upfront, and for Rice to be paid for in 3 yrs instead of 5.
I seriously doubt that those 2 issues are related.
We’re obviously going to need to sign a replacement for Ramsdale
We’ve been strongly linked to Garcia all summer, but dependant on Ramsdale leaving.
All reputable sources saying Arsenal are on the market for a forward, we’d be willing to pay out Williams release, and we were prepared to do the same for Sesko.
I might have to correct my take from earlier. Honestly, it's not really a correction. It's more of a realisation.
This is what happened about 3 years and 10 or 11 days ago:
Arsenal have agreed a deal in principle with Sheffield United for goalkeeper Aaron Ramsdale worth an initial £24m. The fee could rise by another £6m in add-ons depending on whether Ramsdale becomes the Gunners' long-term No 1.
This was us getting skinned alive by a team already relegated. We probably paid them most of the add ons if not all.
In the 3 years here:
- Rams got called and played for the NT
- we placed 5th and 2th
- Brendan Rodgers creamed his pants when Rams made that save v Leicester
- he was valued in top 3 GKs in transfermarkt
What the fuck happened that we are going to sell a player we took a gamble with, developed him, we presented him to the world, literally made him one of the GK stars and we end up selling him for less money than we bought him for?
How was nobody interested in him but a club that might get relegated?
How lowly is he actually rated?
I'm just realising that no good club actually rates him... What the fuck...
Did we decide to sell because we realised we're in the mud so we cut our losses as best as we could?
Did we sell him because he's been a mess behind doors? (I bet)
Or did we sell him because we desperately need a little bit of cash for a big boy transfer?
The more I think about it, the more I believe it's a self engineered move. Why would Arsenal sell (it's a kinda shit sale) a proven keeper, to get a kid from somewhere and the kid will also be worth a ton (man of the match tonight vs Atleti)?
It is what it is but holy shit, we developed a player and sold him on a loss compared to when we bought him from a relegated team. Incredible.
No, that is not it. That is a one dimensional way of looking at it. Most of the PL who will pay that sort of money already have an established No 1. There is only so many teams that will spend 30m to get a GK. Even Newcastle have been turned off by that asking price. It has always been like this. I remember Edwin Vandersar, one of the great PL goalkeepers moving to Fulham because Juventus signed Gigi Buffon and wanted to sell him. There needs to be a market that is open for you to recoup maximum fee. Edu has done really well considering Ramsdale is a fringe player now. If southampton go down, some team will pay his fee to take him too. Gk is a position of right team, right timing. I am very sure up to 14 teams would want him but it isn't a priority for them and the fee will put them off.
Word on the street is we’re going all guns blazing for Williams.Interestingly has been left out of the side to face Valencia this evening & it’s NOT an injury.Apparently he’s now open to the idea of Arsenal switch.Who will pay the release clause.Make of that what you will?
I notice marko was conspicuously absent during our title charge since we changed platforms here but couldn’t resist slipping out of hiding for the last few days of a transfer window
Even if we can't get someone in before the deadline the club will have done well to get these sales out of the way. We can pick someone up in January if the right deal doesn't make itself available this week. Arteta obviously isn't shy about his belief that starters should play ungodly amounts of minutes, so there's a real possibility that this is it. But still, after having a record-breaking summer for sales, not adding a marquee signing to the attack when money shouldn't be an issue is going to feel a bit anticlimactic.
Sources close to Joan Garcia do not consider Arsenal move a formality. His reps are prepared to broker deal but there is concern about shortage of time. #AFC therefore, may have to meet release clause. Garcia starting tonight vs Atletico. Could go to wire.
--------------------
Under any circumstances should we pay a 25m release clause for a backup keeper. Find one who is good for a maximum of 12 to 15m.
I won't subscribe to the idea of not signing a forward now. We have sold well. It can't be Nico Williams or no one else.
There are a lot of deals going through this summer with a loan and an obligation for next summer. Even if we are in the red with PSR (which I don't think we are ) we should be trying to schedule it like we did with Raya at worst.
And if none of our targets are available, we need a loan to beef up our numbers. We have sold well, now there is no excuses to get incomings.
New post:
Looks, ike we are clearing the decks to be able to do a proper 2011 last minute trolley dash.
We are just seeking what falls off the tree in the last days of the transfer window.
This Joan Garcia kid was MOTM tonight vs Athletico. He also won Gold with Spain at the Olympics.
The mad thing is he is valued at €800k by the transfermarkt website 😂😂😂. And all their arrivals this summer have been on loan. No permanent transfers.
I now have a suspicion Arteta and Edu had a green light that a 10 to 15m fee could be agreed and that is why they left it this late. A £10m transfer might actually mean a lot to them. Let's see.
Ramsdale was apparently on £6 million p/a.
Garcia likely to be offered a fraction of that, big save on wages.
We signed Ramsdale for £24 - £30 million.
Working off the top end of that, assuming we amortised his transfer over 4 years?…
He’d have 1yr left on his book price of £7.5 million.
If Arsenal sell him for an initial £18 million, we’d record a £10.5 million operating profit on top.
Even if Garcia cost £15 million, we’d amortise that over 5 years, and it would only add £3 million a year to our balance sheet.
But we’d take the last year of Ramsdale’s book price of the balance sheet, so outstanding amortisation would be reduced by £4.5 million.
Is it correct to say if I buy a player for 10m on a 10 year deal, but the payment structure is 8m up front and 2m after 1 year, that our accounting is instead going to say it’s just 1m per year over 10 years? And if so, why?
Honestly the way accounting is done in football confuses the hell out of me
No they removed the loophole.
So clubs can still offer long contracts, but the maximum they can now amortise a transfer is over 5 years.
When clubs buy players they amortise that transfer fee over the length of the contract.
But when they sell players, they book the price straight away for accounting terms, even if they don’t get all the money straight away.
Academy players don’t have any book price, so they’re sold for pure profit.
But say we buy a player for £50 million, and amortised that over 5 years.
That would be £10 million a year added to the balance sheet.
If we sold that player for £50 million in 3 years, we’d record a £30 million operational profit, and remove the outstanding £20 million amortisation from our balance sheet.
If we sold that player for £10 million after 3 years, we’d have to write down a £10 million operating loss.
So if Arsenal sold Big Gabby, Saliba, Martinelli, it would be the equivalent of selling an academy player, because they don’t have any outstanding amortisation.
What determines whether clubs record an operating profit or loss, is what’s left on the balance sheet at the time of sale.
Thanks for the explanation so this means in my example of a 10m player on a 10 year contract whereby Arsenal pay 8 today and 2 next summer, we would instead record it as 2m per year for 5 years?
Am I missing something because clearly it’s factually incorrect accounting. It’s literally wrong. It’s -8 then -2, then 0 outstanding.
Yes.
If we signed a player for £10 million on a 5yr contract, and amortised that fee over 5 years.
£2 million p/a would be added to the balanced sheet over each of the next 5 years
Even if we paid the whole lot front.
Same with sales, we book the sale price straight away, even if we don’t get all the money up front.
But if we sold a player with £20 million left on their book price, for say £10 million, we’d have to write down a £10 million operating loss.
This accounting model makes no sense and is ripe for exploitation just as we have seen with Chelsea
Rather than use a nonsensical system which is so messy and needs to be constantly monitored for loopholes, why not just use accounting founded in reality?
If the goal of PSR is to ensure clubs are operating sustainably, surely have an accounting model founded into facts would be a good place to start rather than using a model where it’s basically creative accounting crap in a system which can be easily gamed
That the PL wants to encourage clubs to use home grown players whilst at the same time PSR basically rewards clubs for prioritizing sales of their academy players over other players is also at direct conflict
Where is the common sense in any of this system?
When I bought my apartment the lender did a credit check for me to ensure I could afford it. They found I could.
Bought it with a 36 year mortgage. I am allowed pay about 20% of the mortgage off each year if I want to so I could hypothetically pay off the mortgage in several years if I had enough money.
At this point if I wanted to buy another property with a mortgage, the lender when they do their credit check would see I have no outstanding loan from the previous place. They’re not going to say ‘ah but what about the remaining 30 odd years of the previous mortgage you still have to pay?’ Because it doesn’t exist anymore
I accept there may be something I’m missing but it honestly looks like football accounting is total nonsense completely ungrounded in reality and that appears to be making a right mess of things.
Houses are classed as tangible assets.
Players are classed as intangible assets.
If a players is signed for £50 million on a 5 year contract, and amortised over 5 years.
They’re added to the balance sheet, but every year £10 million comes off the balance sheet, until there’s no outstanding balance.
But if they’re still contracted after they come off the balance sheet, they’ll be sold for pure profit.
If they’re sold while they’re still on the balance sheet, what’ll determine whether clubs record a profit or loss…
Is price received, minus any outstanding book price.
That is the accounting that will help us comply with PSR and FFP. And it might actually help in recruiting a forward because of the room it will give us to spend.
What I am also saying is, the reports that we might have to trigger his release clause might be wide of the mark.
And it might actually be in their interest to sell us a keeper so that they can have money to play with. Their whole squad is valued at €65m. €15m would actually be like 1/4 of their squad value. And we might actually get it done for less that half of the release clause.
Please don’t blow all the ramsdale cash on his replacement… would much rather see a bargain signed and put that money towards a forward.
We have money. Seems the problem is getting a forward we really like that's available, and agrees to play behind Saka for Mikel No-Rotate-Teta.
I don't think we should downgrade on our keepers just to save 10-15m, which is actually nothing.
Imagine the whole title challenge in the prem and Champions league in 2024/25 both go down the tubes because Raya gets injured, because we pulled a Levy and focused on saving a bit of money.
How would we feel then?
I am not convinced we do have much money.
We spent 100m on rice last year and I suspect it includes significant payments each summer for the next few years.
We paid 25m for Raya who most of us kinda just forget about as we already considered him ours
I expect those two alone cost us 40m this summer. Add merino and calafiori and that’s over 110m
Most of that is offset by sales but I am still not totally sure we are flush with cash.
I also suspect we may be keeping the powder dry so we can have a big summer next season.
But anyway it’s just a theory and we’ll have the answers in the next 48h. Hoping I’m wrong
I agree, I think we have very little money.
Arsenal have replaced our starting xi in last few seasons and our sales for £10 million + in last few seasons are - flo, guen, xhaka, willock and ? Player sales this summer balancing books, we couldn't afford Raya last summer.
And Rice deal was bad as well - Hammers wanted more upfront, and for Rice to be paid for in 3 yrs instead of 5.
I seriously doubt that those 2 issues are related.
We’re obviously going to need to sign a replacement for Ramsdale
We’ve been strongly linked to Garcia all summer, but dependant on Ramsdale leaving.
All reputable sources saying Arsenal are on the market for a forward, we’d be willing to pay out Williams release, and we were prepared to do the same for Sesko.
I hope you’re right but who knows if it was the sesko money that we spent on calafiori instead
I wonder why they didn’t just keep Hein as back-up. He’s decent enough and Raya plays the biggest games in any case.
We shouldn’t spend £25 million on that Spaniard, not when we haven’t signed rotation attackers.
Hein is nowhere near the level for the second favourites for the title.
We are 3rd favourites with the bookies to win the champions league.
Raya goes down and it all gets pissed away. Hundreds of millions invested in this squad.
Let's be realistic.
Hein was out of contract, and wanted first team football, he’s already done the 3rd choice gig twice.
I’m assuming that agreeing a new contract was dependent on being loaned out for regular football.
I might have to correct my take from earlier. Honestly, it's not really a correction. It's more of a realisation.
This is what happened about 3 years and 10 or 11 days ago:
Arsenal have agreed a deal in principle with Sheffield United for goalkeeper Aaron Ramsdale worth an initial £24m. The fee could rise by another £6m in add-ons depending on whether Ramsdale becomes the Gunners' long-term No 1.
This was us getting skinned alive by a team already relegated. We probably paid them most of the add ons if not all.
In the 3 years here:
- Rams got called and played for the NT
- we placed 5th and 2th
- Brendan Rodgers creamed his pants when Rams made that save v Leicester
- he was valued in top 3 GKs in transfermarkt
What the fuck happened that we are going to sell a player we took a gamble with, developed him, we presented him to the world, literally made him one of the GK stars and we end up selling him for less money than we bought him for?
How was nobody interested in him but a club that might get relegated?
How lowly is he actually rated?
I'm just realising that no good club actually rates him... What the fuck...
Did we decide to sell because we realised we're in the mud so we cut our losses as best as we could?
Did we sell him because he's been a mess behind doors? (I bet)
Or did we sell him because we desperately need a little bit of cash for a big boy transfer?
The more I think about it, the more I believe it's a self engineered move. Why would Arsenal sell (it's a kinda shit sale) a proven keeper, to get a kid from somewhere and the kid will also be worth a ton (man of the match tonight vs Atleti)?
It is what it is but holy shit, we developed a player and sold him on a loss compared to when we bought him from a relegated team. Incredible.
The market is the market
Do you think Ramsdale’s value increases after yet another year on the bench
Best to sell and insert a sell-on clause.
No, that is not it. That is a one dimensional way of looking at it. Most of the PL who will pay that sort of money already have an established No 1. There is only so many teams that will spend 30m to get a GK. Even Newcastle have been turned off by that asking price. It has always been like this. I remember Edwin Vandersar, one of the great PL goalkeepers moving to Fulham because Juventus signed Gigi Buffon and wanted to sell him. There needs to be a market that is open for you to recoup maximum fee. Edu has done really well considering Ramsdale is a fringe player now. If southampton go down, some team will pay his fee to take him too. Gk is a position of right team, right timing. I am very sure up to 14 teams would want him but it isn't a priority for them and the fee will put them off.
https://www.transfermarkt.com/the-most-expensive-goalkeepers-in-history/index/galerie/2117
I will leave this here for you as a reference. It is a lot of commitment for a club to spend 30m on a keeper.
Word on the street is we’re going all guns blazing for Williams.Interestingly has been left out of the side to face Valencia this evening & it’s NOT an injury.Apparently he’s now open to the idea of Arsenal switch.Who will pay the release clause.Make of that what you will?
Sane is the fallback option.
FFS just leave it bro. Don't get my hopes up and to crush it down later.
Don't mate.
Arsenal will face Bolton Wanderers at The Emirates stadium. 🏟️
3rd round of the Carabao Cup. 🏆
Nelson on £4.5 million pa.
Still £3 miilion too much.
Nepotism!
yea using that rambo fee for a back up not a wise idea. Keep that powder for the attacker. Or most of it! No more than 5-10 for that back up please.
What would happen if Raya broke his arm…back….to put him out for a year or worse?
Up shit creek without a paddle
I notice marko was conspicuously absent during our title charge since we changed platforms here but couldn’t resist slipping out of hiding for the last few days of a transfer window
Why am I not surprised
Huh? What are you talking about Don? Shouldn't you be burning a cross somewhere
Lame. You’re getting old Marko.
And we are off again lol you two are hysterical
Even if we can't get someone in before the deadline the club will have done well to get these sales out of the way. We can pick someone up in January if the right deal doesn't make itself available this week. Arteta obviously isn't shy about his belief that starters should play ungodly amounts of minutes, so there's a real possibility that this is it. But still, after having a record-breaking summer for sales, not adding a marquee signing to the attack when money shouldn't be an issue is going to feel a bit anticlimactic.
As wenger used to say, we will only sign a really exceptional talent as this squad is already so good
http://en.espn.co.uk/football/sport/story/185278.html
It was…’we don’t sign superstars, we make them’
giving me bad flashbacks
cant the team request an extenstion from the league if needed?
If clubs get a deal sheet in 2 hours before the deadline, they can get a 2 hour extension to past the 23.00 deadline to complete the paperwork.
Ryan Taylor
@RyanTaylorSport
·
9m
Sources close to Joan Garcia do not consider Arsenal move a formality. His reps are prepared to broker deal but there is concern about shortage of time. #AFC therefore, may have to meet release clause. Garcia starting tonight vs Atletico. Could go to wire.
--------------------
Under any circumstances should we pay a 25m release clause for a backup keeper. Find one who is good for a maximum of 12 to 15m.
His release clause might say 25 million but he's not anywhere near worth that amount.
Of course not! There's no way we will do a switcheroo with the Rambo fee for his back up. 15 million tops or I can deputise till January!
What's the bottom line so far?
- ESR 27 + 7
- Eddie 25 + 5
- Rams 18 + 7
- Nuno 7 (next summer)
- Biereth 4
- Norton-Cuffy 3.5
- McGuinness 2
- Patino 1
I'm probably forgetting someone.
About 87.5m clean and 19m in add-ons. We also got a few sell-on clauses that will one day bring even more.
Raps.Reis Nelson.20 more big ones incoming.Fulham,w.Ham or Leicester.Lovely jubbly!
Pretty much zero net spend, as it stands!
Think we got a sell on fee for Guendouzi as well.
£3 million for Omari Hutchinson, and £2 million for Leno, after Fulham stayed up again last season.
we are in the black
I won't subscribe to the idea of not signing a forward now. We have sold well. It can't be Nico Williams or no one else.
There are a lot of deals going through this summer with a loan and an obligation for next summer. Even if we are in the red with PSR (which I don't think we are ) we should be trying to schedule it like we did with Raya at worst.
And if none of our targets are available, we need a loan to beef up our numbers. We have sold well, now there is no excuses to get incomings.