For those interested in the actual numbers on spending, the most recent accounts for Arsenal & Liverpool go to the end of the 2023 season. FWIW, Capology has our wage bill above Liverpool this season & for last season. Guess we'll see in a couple of months, worth remembering that a lot of remuneration is bonus related - good seasons can add a hell of a lot to the base:
22/23 - Arsenal Wages 235m, Amortisation etc. 157, total 392
Liverpool Wages 373m, Amortisation etc. 110, total 483
21/22 - Arsenal Wages 205m, Amortisation etc. 127m, total 332
Liverpool Wages 366m, Amortisation etc. 103, total 469
20/21 - Arsenal Wages 240m, Amortisation etc. 117m, total 357
Liverpool wages 314m, Amortisation etc. 108m, total 422
Overall - Arsenal 1.08bn, Liverpool 1.37bn, Liverpool over that period spent 26% more on football resources.
Without sight of the PAR submission you can’t with certainty get a true handle on the numbers.
Ok on the face of it there is £290 million difference over three years but and here’s the big but the two clubs operations aren’t identical
The wage numbers you report are for the respective groups operations include not just the men’s first team but the whole organisation and even then the two clubs operate differently . To highlight the differences Liverpool employ some 2062 staff on matchdays Arsenal employ 1016. The suggestion being that Arsenal bring in more agency staff or outsource operations. These individuals wages are reflected in the wage numbers you reflect
Then you have to look at profit from player sales( to be fair not a lot in it but none the less Liverpool numbers are greater) impairment and also clubs respective academies indeed Arsenal in total employ 189 players/coaches Liverpool 238. The. You have support / admin staff Arsenal have 426 Liverpool have 701.
Now we have no idea what all those people employed by Liverpool are up to but under the new model they certainly won’t count and even under the old model those that were employed in say community projects, are discounted and of course academy and ladies costs likewise are discounted.
Finally you need to be able to drill down into what is being reflected in the vast sums being reported in other operating costs in 23/24 that number for Arsenal was £112 million which is massive and no doubt reflects some of the outsourcing costs that Liverpool on the face of it deal with through payroll
I still think that Artetat doesn't believe that if "we add a bang-bang striker, a winger, and someone like Zubimendi, we are ready to dominate for 5 years."
These are days when I fear if you give Arteta £1b to spend on additional players, he'll use it all on defensive players. Feels like Arteta hates the #9 position that, if he had his way, he'd scrap it.
I agree with Habesha anyway that Kroenkes aren't the best owners to have around. But not because they haven't spent enough cos they have. It's because they haven't fired Arteta yet. This tells me those people don't have the ambition to win but to do the barest minimum (ie stay in the UCL places).
They don't push Arteta, they allowing a novice take complete control of a club and allowing him interview his boss. It's just so insane
If you mean the dodgy ace up the sleeve you’d be correct.Nothing Honourable from that bunch of horse thieves.Wouldnt have had a prayer with David Dein.
That Newcastle comparison is an odd one because we already have a brilliant core and foundation unlike them. We’re looking for cherry on the top type signings not a complete rebuild of a pretty unremarkable squad
By the end of last season, if Pedro was to do a combined Liverpool-Arsenal squad, he'd probably pick only Salah from Liverpool (and probably find ways to play him centrally or on the left). I assume this would be the case for most AKBs as well.
Midway to a new season, a manager came in, without signing anyone, has Liverpool banging, all of a sudden same Pedro and other AKBs are queuing up to tell us Liverpool is better because they spend more than us lmao 😂
I don't even understand. Is Pedro saying all of a sudden that we can't win any trophy again because City or Liverpool spend more than us and have higher wage bill?
Last I checked his posts, Liverpool would require 5 years post Klopp to rebuild, Pep was leaving so we'd dominate.
So cos your I'll timed, hopium induced statements turned out to not be the case because of the incompetence of Arteta you want to change all your narratives?
Wenger never outspent anybody but he spent enough to win. He paid good players enough to win. That's the difference. If you only win when you spend the most and pay the most what's the use of generational? Might have as well kept Unai and be done with it eh?
On this occasion I have to disagree with your analysis.
Yes there was a long period post the construction of the Emirates Stadium when the club focussed on repayment of debts.
Yes the club lacked a single owner for a long time when both Kroenke and Usmanov were attempting to buy the club outright which prevented significant investment in team.
But NO that is no longer the case. Kroenke now owns the club outright and his spend on the
team in the last 3 years has grown significantly. Indeed we spent more in transfer market than
Liverpool in last 4 transfer windows and I would suggest also Man City.
However, Arsenal in contrast to Man City and Liverpool are a squad/team in "progress". They
are not the finished article. Their focus over last two seasons was to finish in top 4 of EPL and
QUALIFY for Champions League. However, no-one expected us to win realistically either competition.
This season there were expectations that we would compete with Man City for League Title.
On current evidence that may not happen for either club. So perhaps we should analyse why
that may be the case and not make the wrong excuses.
1. The club made the decision to operate with a relatively small squad. If you are competing in
4 competitions particularly in EPL and enlarged Champions League that is a risk.
2. Arsenal have suffered this season a sequence of injuries to key players which not only
upset the rhythm of the team, but has impacted on performance. That was obvious in the
Newcastle Carabo Cup game.
3. The club failed to recruit a top class Striker. That was the one major position in our preferred starting lineup which needed to be addressed.
So let's move forward. Arsenal need to redress the mistakes which have been made this year.
Assuming that we qualify for Champions League the club needs a well balanced squad to
cover ALL COMMITMENTS and not leave us depleted and exhausted.
There are currently in my assessment six positions in the squad, which need to be replaced
at the end of this season. First we need to recruit a top class striker That will cost mega bucks
both in transfer fee and wages.
The other 5 positions like GK, CB, LB, DMF and WING are squad players with potential to
upgrade. This needs smart recruitment and where possible promotion from U21 or Academy
as many of our competitors manage better than us.
Pedro makes the case for the difference in "wealth" of clubs and owners and cites the wage
bills paid by different clubs. Frankly that is not an argument. Man United are a wealthy club
but have been mismanaged for many years. The reason that Man City and to a lesser degree
Liverpool have been successful is that they have been "well managed" and "stable" clubs
Marko, I honestly wonder if you read back your stuff.
Yes, Manchester City think about how can they invest more and more money into their squad. That's the entire basis of their charges.
Yes Liverpool think about how they can keep pushing their wage bill up to compete and keep the very best players.
That is why Champions League is absolutely critical... because if you are consistently in it, you earn more money from TV, you create new fans, you drive better commercial deals, get high kit sponsors and... can spend more money on wages.
Madrid ownership tried to create a super league to give them more financial firepower to keep themselves at the top of the pyramid.
We went close last year and fell short because we didn't have the depth we needed... but it's hard to get to to the depth we need without the financial firepower those two have.
You've also owned yourself a bit by admitting that the manager you said was worse that Sean Dyche is overperforming.
For those interested in the actual numbers on spending, the most recent accounts for Arsenal & Liverpool go to the end of the 2023 season. FWIW, Capology has our wage bill above Liverpool this season & for last season. Guess we'll see in a couple of months, worth remembering that a lot of remuneration is bonus related - good seasons can add a hell of a lot to the base:
22/23 - Arsenal Wages 235m, Amortisation etc. 157, total 392
Liverpool Wages 373m, Amortisation etc. 110, total 483
21/22 - Arsenal Wages 205m, Amortisation etc. 127m, total 332
Liverpool Wages 366m, Amortisation etc. 103, total 469
20/21 - Arsenal Wages 240m, Amortisation etc. 117m, total 357
Liverpool wages 314m, Amortisation etc. 108m, total 422
Overall - Arsenal 1.08bn, Liverpool 1.37bn, Liverpool over that period spent 26% more on football resources.
Mat.
Without sight of the PAR submission you can’t with certainty get a true handle on the numbers.
Ok on the face of it there is £290 million difference over three years but and here’s the big but the two clubs operations aren’t identical
The wage numbers you report are for the respective groups operations include not just the men’s first team but the whole organisation and even then the two clubs operate differently . To highlight the differences Liverpool employ some 2062 staff on matchdays Arsenal employ 1016. The suggestion being that Arsenal bring in more agency staff or outsource operations. These individuals wages are reflected in the wage numbers you reflect
Then you have to look at profit from player sales( to be fair not a lot in it but none the less Liverpool numbers are greater) impairment and also clubs respective academies indeed Arsenal in total employ 189 players/coaches Liverpool 238. The. You have support / admin staff Arsenal have 426 Liverpool have 701.
Now we have no idea what all those people employed by Liverpool are up to but under the new model they certainly won’t count and even under the old model those that were employed in say community projects, are discounted and of course academy and ladies costs likewise are discounted.
Finally you need to be able to drill down into what is being reflected in the vast sums being reported in other operating costs in 23/24 that number for Arsenal was £112 million which is massive and no doubt reflects some of the outsourcing costs that Liverpool on the face of it deal with through payroll
I still think that Artetat doesn't believe that if "we add a bang-bang striker, a winger, and someone like Zubimendi, we are ready to dominate for 5 years."
These are days when I fear if you give Arteta £1b to spend on additional players, he'll use it all on defensive players. Feels like Arteta hates the #9 position that, if he had his way, he'd scrap it.
F*** ng Mickey mousers.Think the world owes them a living.So far up their own arses & HATE Arsenal.zMake no mistake.
I don’t want to jinx this …..
Spursy
Off course if we do lose to old Trafford boys,it will be the obvious bigger spending and bigger wages,maybe even new manager bounce too
I do wish things fix up immediately because all these narratives is doing my head
We are gradually sliding into top 4 is a trophy territory
At least consistent champions league money will increase our coffers
Wenger part 2
Always a good read bro and always to the point 👍🏽 makes total sense lad.
I agree with Habesha anyway that Kroenkes aren't the best owners to have around. But not because they haven't spent enough cos they have. It's because they haven't fired Arteta yet. This tells me those people don't have the ambition to win but to do the barest minimum (ie stay in the UCL places).
They don't push Arteta, they allowing a novice take complete control of a club and allowing him interview his boss. It's just so insane
That’s precisely what they did with Wenger
Pedro saw through it now but with Arteta, he’s blinded.
The Kroenke’s think they’ve installed a manager that’s liked by the fanbase and that gives them leeway.
They pay Arteta the 2nd highest in the world, football manager’s salary for a reason.
Anfield Stadium rebuild with a 61,000 capacity has cost under £200 million.
The club opted in investing in the football team rather than a new stadium. Compare that with
Everton!!!
The key to football success is not just about "money". It is about stability, good management
and recruiting the right players.
Liverpool have had modest success in recent years, but that is frankly not down to spending
shed loads of money.
The have been run like a proper football club since taken over by Fenway with proper financial
prudence and good football management.
They have recruited well. Okay they paid a world record fee for Van Dijk, but otherwise they
have not spent mega bucks on players. Take a look at what Salah cost!!!
Arsenal were taught also a lesson of how to play poker when Liverpool refused to sell Suarez to us.
If you mean the dodgy ace up the sleeve you’d be correct.Nothing Honourable from that bunch of horse thieves.Wouldnt have had a prayer with David Dein.
Modest you say
Darwin Nunez £85,360,000
Virgil Van Dijk £75,000,000
Alisson Becker £65,000,000
Dominik Szoboszlai £60,100,000
Naby Keita £52,750,000
Luis Diaz £50,000,000
Diogo Jota £45,000,000
Cody Gakpo £44,000,000
These amounts were in Euros and not pounds.
Also I have compared Liverpool's spend over last 3 years with ours in the same period.
2024-5 ARSENAL EUROS 108.90M LIVERPOOL EUROS 42.00M
2023-4 EUROS 235.10M EUROS 172.00M
2022-3 EUROS 186.40M EUROS 148.80M
=============================================================
EUROS530.40M EUROS352.80M
Also Liverpool's modest spend so far this season included Euros 30 Million spent
on Marmardshivili currently rated the most valuable goalkeeper in world by transfermarkt who was loaned back to selling club
So their actual spend on player who joined them this season is Euros 12 million.
That Newcastle comparison is an odd one because we already have a brilliant core and foundation unlike them. We’re looking for cherry on the top type signings not a complete rebuild of a pretty unremarkable squad
But you knew that already
By the end of last season, if Pedro was to do a combined Liverpool-Arsenal squad, he'd probably pick only Salah from Liverpool (and probably find ways to play him centrally or on the left). I assume this would be the case for most AKBs as well.
Midway to a new season, a manager came in, without signing anyone, has Liverpool banging, all of a sudden same Pedro and other AKBs are queuing up to tell us Liverpool is better because they spend more than us lmao 😂
I don't even understand. Is Pedro saying all of a sudden that we can't win any trophy again because City or Liverpool spend more than us and have higher wage bill?
Last I checked his posts, Liverpool would require 5 years post Klopp to rebuild, Pep was leaving so we'd dominate.
So cos your I'll timed, hopium induced statements turned out to not be the case because of the incompetence of Arteta you want to change all your narratives?
Wenger never outspent anybody but he spent enough to win. He paid good players enough to win. That's the difference. If you only win when you spend the most and pay the most what's the use of generational? Might have as well kept Unai and be done with it eh?
Pedro
On this occasion I have to disagree with your analysis.
Yes there was a long period post the construction of the Emirates Stadium when the club focussed on repayment of debts.
Yes the club lacked a single owner for a long time when both Kroenke and Usmanov were attempting to buy the club outright which prevented significant investment in team.
But NO that is no longer the case. Kroenke now owns the club outright and his spend on the
team in the last 3 years has grown significantly. Indeed we spent more in transfer market than
Liverpool in last 4 transfer windows and I would suggest also Man City.
However, Arsenal in contrast to Man City and Liverpool are a squad/team in "progress". They
are not the finished article. Their focus over last two seasons was to finish in top 4 of EPL and
QUALIFY for Champions League. However, no-one expected us to win realistically either competition.
This season there were expectations that we would compete with Man City for League Title.
On current evidence that may not happen for either club. So perhaps we should analyse why
that may be the case and not make the wrong excuses.
1. The club made the decision to operate with a relatively small squad. If you are competing in
4 competitions particularly in EPL and enlarged Champions League that is a risk.
2. Arsenal have suffered this season a sequence of injuries to key players which not only
upset the rhythm of the team, but has impacted on performance. That was obvious in the
Newcastle Carabo Cup game.
3. The club failed to recruit a top class Striker. That was the one major position in our preferred starting lineup which needed to be addressed.
So let's move forward. Arsenal need to redress the mistakes which have been made this year.
Assuming that we qualify for Champions League the club needs a well balanced squad to
cover ALL COMMITMENTS and not leave us depleted and exhausted.
There are currently in my assessment six positions in the squad, which need to be replaced
at the end of this season. First we need to recruit a top class striker That will cost mega bucks
both in transfer fee and wages.
The other 5 positions like GK, CB, LB, DMF and WING are squad players with potential to
upgrade. This needs smart recruitment and where possible promotion from U21 or Academy
as many of our competitors manage better than us.
Pedro makes the case for the difference in "wealth" of clubs and owners and cites the wage
bills paid by different clubs. Frankly that is not an argument. Man United are a wealthy club
but have been mismanaged for many years. The reason that Man City and to a lesser degree
Liverpool have been successful is that they have been "well managed" and "stable" clubs
for a long time.
Our Pedro came up with the "money, money, money" narrative as a defense incase things go south when we face Man u.
Pedro: ‘Liverpool and City spend £500m every three years more than Arsenal, because of consistent success - and if we keep going, we will get there’
The comments: ‘I don’t agree that makes a difference’
Never change guys, never change. X
Marko, I honestly wonder if you read back your stuff.
Yes, Manchester City think about how can they invest more and more money into their squad. That's the entire basis of their charges.
Yes Liverpool think about how they can keep pushing their wage bill up to compete and keep the very best players.
That is why Champions League is absolutely critical... because if you are consistently in it, you earn more money from TV, you create new fans, you drive better commercial deals, get high kit sponsors and... can spend more money on wages.
Madrid ownership tried to create a super league to give them more financial firepower to keep themselves at the top of the pyramid.
We went close last year and fell short because we didn't have the depth we needed... but it's hard to get to to the depth we need without the financial firepower those two have.
You've also owned yourself a bit by admitting that the manager you said was worse that Sean Dyche is overperforming.
Player sales haven't been very good, no doubt. But things started to pick up last summer.
Not shifting Jesus and Zinchenko affected the summer last year.
But you're still looking at Arsenal also being £150m short on LFC revenue.