To make the 433 work, you need to have such quality in midfield where off the ball movement is like second nature. Even Pool go with a 4231 at times. The issue is that their 4 attackers are world class and have free reign to create and cause chaos. In fact most of their attackers are always moving into dangerous positions to get the ball. We still do not have that. We still play u shape attack outside the box. However against Brentford I was happy to see we were attacking inside the box a lot more! But overall, the 433 can hinder you if you do not have the personnel to make it work. Its very specific and requires a lot of off the ball movement. City a few years back and current Pool... Overall, a player like Diaz, or someone in midfield like a Guler, or Olmo can really make a huge difference with creating
Ode really needs to be paired in the middle with another creative mid. He cannot do this alone all the time. Someone who can dribble like a demon, take on players and lead a break down the center. Who is that ball carrying midfielder? guler, olmo, wirtz, someone like this! A santi or sanchez type dribbler!
Hi Serge- yeah- I still have my ST- lower east aisle seat off halfway line - proper seat- earned the right to get that. I rent it now and go occasionally. Love the Arsenal but and there is a bit- I’m not going to be patronised or abused by the hierarchy. It’s shameful that we put up with the control of the system. It was never this before. I’m not a conspiracy theorist - I have lived it and I don’t like what I see. Been to over a thousand games like yourself and I know when it is not right. Sensed it when VAR came in a few years ago for cup games. I was jumping up and down and then they cancelled the goal - I went eh in my head and that’s when I knew the writing was on the wall. You can’t teach a dog new tricks - and these are not tricks I like. Pxxs off and waste somebody else’s time . I have been proven right mate. Enjoy Serge. Respect
Cyril I do still go, will be there on Tuesday too. I was born in Islington so went there as a boy with my uncle and dad in the 70s, we moved out in the 80s and I only went regularly when I became an adult late 80s, I am in my 50s now.
Like I said our play has regressed this season and it's bloody expensive to go these days.
I actually think there is a lack of star quality in football now. Players have to be athletes first and foremost now. Even 20 years ago every team had a top quality player. Players like le tissier would never make it now.
Football is a commodity and a lot of us fans are being priced out.
I tried to remember a game or an instance we won or had a real advantage of due to a ref decision. I am totally aware that you remind decisions you are hard done by easier but nevertheless … funnily I remember two instances, both against pool. one where ode was off balance and got on the ball with his hand in the penalty box and one where gabriel committed a foul on salah in the 95 or 96 minute in the box
I do remember an awful lot of decisions going against us - I am not talking about forgetting to draw lines or the like. I talk about 50:50, 60:40 decisions that seem to be never going our way
now I don‘t want to blame our draw today on a bad ref - he was bad, the pen was soft but we weren‘t up to it today. what I do feel though is we might manage to win it or in other instances to get a point (like some games this season too) but we somehow get undone by those 50:50,60:40 decisions. what I want to say is - besides the fact as many of you mentioned that we seem to be quite bad offensively - if we hadn‘t had every decision against us, we would have had 4, 5, 6 points more on the board (and would have outperfomed last season by this margin after 20 games). what I know about pool is - as I don‘t watch all their games - they were lucky against soton not conceding a clear pen at 2:1 down in a game they were actually really bad - and that wasn‘t a 50:50, more a 90:10 decision going their way
I know many here are happy enough bashing arteta but can anyone here tell me one decision going for us this season? cala against leicester was the strongest case IMO but if it had been a second yellow for an opponent I swear I would have felt ashamed
Can debate all day about the penalty and the ref but the simple fact is that once again it was an absolute struggle to create anything from open play. Outside of the goal we did fuck all to threaten their keeper. We had a half hour since the equalizer and our best chances, like they have all season long, came from a set piece.
We're set piece FC cause that's all the manager can think of...and even then it's an assistant who deals with them. Maybe Jover is the generational one
Mr Serge - I think I have been going as long as you roughly 83 boy- anyway - this static footy - regression not progression. I really could go to town in this - but main thought is - how can you collect a ball and then shy away and turn your back - is this what it has come to - that’s why I stopped going amongst other reasons after 45 years loyal Archway boy support - you know! Bless you if you still go Mr Serge .
Everybody that started this project has left it. Only Arteta is left. Vinai left, Edu left. Raul before them left as well. This is the clearest indication that we need a change in direction.
I mean it's easy to bag on the manager (and he should be changed if he doesn't win anything this season) but the Kroenkes are the problem. Unless they leave, no tangible progress will be made. Only subjective ones.
I don’t believe it’s that straightforward. You cannot win 1-0 anymore - it’s not the eighties. To many variables now. There is a reason we keep drawing. Tactically -
3. These tactics are akin to rugby or American football as they seem to just rush ten yards and then hopium.
4. Explained by strangely collecting the ball and refusing to turn in the right direction - i.e turning back to our goal and then falling down - eh!
5. Expecting Rice to put in a pearler (which does) and for correct contact to be made.
6. Pressure from lumpy balls into small players (Luther van tross and Jesus) when a press is on.
7. The play out from the back is being sussed.
8. Deep concern for being boxed in - in deep areas in our box for throw ins. Real concern as we can’t get out which happens from the passage of play from Raya etc.
9. No pace and freedom anymore as it seems like we are automated to gain yardage.
I could go on and on - I have no idea what has happened but it is deeply worrying.
Arteta has been given the keys to the greatest sweatshop in the world but as any knowledgeable business man knows - you have to open the shop for 7 days a week as you only make profit in the final 2. For some reason it seems the shop is only open 4 days to cover his costs. It’s not adding up - I’m baffled.
They are not separate issues you were just not quick enough to see what a negative he’d become. He’s a selfish prick who only cares about himself. Even Arteta has said he’s difficult to deal with, same with the Brighton manager who couldn’t wait to move him on.
The second yellow against City wasn’t my main gripe against him but rather his petulance over not starting and refusing to celebrate a goal … when you consider how poor and unproductive he’s been through the season, it’s validated my point that he’s more of a negative than a positive on this team
You have an irrational dislike of Trossard, I don’t. That was what I was calling out. You were out of control with your Trossard name calling that day
What attitudes are you talking about?
Arteta has publicly said several times that he likes Trossard’d fight for minutes .
I want him out because he’s not performing and he’s easily disposed of. He’s over 30 yrs, cost us relatively small money and unlike so many, he’s on small wages. It’s as simple as counting one to ten.
I’ve not reversed myself in any way and there’s nothing I’ve written now that corroborates your irrational dislike of him.
I was never attached to him, he’s been at the club for less than 2 years ffs.
From experience of chatting with you here , we won’t agree on what we disagree on because you don’t even know what you know. I’m wiser from that experience.
You don't understand. No one above us will buy Martinelli. All our players, if they don't bang, we are losing money on them cos nobody above us will buy them. Only clubs richer than us are the top tier clubs. It's good we only got Marti for 6m so even if we sell to Inter it will be on minimal profit
I know some Arteta bashing is the thing these days but are we really just going to forget the bizarre officiating we have to put with as a club. We’re not going to be allowed to win the league that’s for sure. That said, the gaps in the squad and the overtraining are on the manager. But I’d still take the position we’re in and opportunities that we still have to win something. I’m just still so perplexed at the refs decisions yet again and I watch enough games as a neutral, to not be blinkered as an Arsenal fan. Something is not right…..
Pedro: "We need three big players to move us forward and a little bit of leveling up with the squad..."
Still Pedro: "he fits our profile, he's raw, young, will have two decent seasons under his belt, and he'll be back on the agenda." (Talking about Sesko).
Is he a part of the 3 big signings? In what world is a raw player with 2 average seasons a big signing that will win the league for us?
To be fair to Sesko mystic if we were to sign him he'd be the first proper striker we've actually signed. Havertz and Jesus aren't proper strikers. One was brought in as an 8 and the other is more a tricky winger
To make the 433 work, you need to have such quality in midfield where off the ball movement is like second nature. Even Pool go with a 4231 at times. The issue is that their 4 attackers are world class and have free reign to create and cause chaos. In fact most of their attackers are always moving into dangerous positions to get the ball. We still do not have that. We still play u shape attack outside the box. However against Brentford I was happy to see we were attacking inside the box a lot more! But overall, the 433 can hinder you if you do not have the personnel to make it work. Its very specific and requires a lot of off the ball movement. City a few years back and current Pool... Overall, a player like Diaz, or someone in midfield like a Guler, or Olmo can really make a huge difference with creating
Ode really needs to be paired in the middle with another creative mid. He cannot do this alone all the time. Someone who can dribble like a demon, take on players and lead a break down the center. Who is that ball carrying midfielder? guler, olmo, wirtz, someone like this! A santi or sanchez type dribbler!
I read somewhere that Bellingham bro might be good
this 433 is also a problem IMO
Hi Serge- yeah- I still have my ST- lower east aisle seat off halfway line - proper seat- earned the right to get that. I rent it now and go occasionally. Love the Arsenal but and there is a bit- I’m not going to be patronised or abused by the hierarchy. It’s shameful that we put up with the control of the system. It was never this before. I’m not a conspiracy theorist - I have lived it and I don’t like what I see. Been to over a thousand games like yourself and I know when it is not right. Sensed it when VAR came in a few years ago for cup games. I was jumping up and down and then they cancelled the goal - I went eh in my head and that’s when I knew the writing was on the wall. You can’t teach a dog new tricks - and these are not tricks I like. Pxxs off and waste somebody else’s time . I have been proven right mate. Enjoy Serge. Respect
If we don't win a trophy this season, generational has to go
Cyril I do still go, will be there on Tuesday too. I was born in Islington so went there as a boy with my uncle and dad in the 70s, we moved out in the 80s and I only went regularly when I became an adult late 80s, I am in my 50s now.
Like I said our play has regressed this season and it's bloody expensive to go these days.
I actually think there is a lack of star quality in football now. Players have to be athletes first and foremost now. Even 20 years ago every team had a top quality player. Players like le tissier would never make it now.
Football is a commodity and a lot of us fans are being priced out.
I tried to remember a game or an instance we won or had a real advantage of due to a ref decision. I am totally aware that you remind decisions you are hard done by easier but nevertheless … funnily I remember two instances, both against pool. one where ode was off balance and got on the ball with his hand in the penalty box and one where gabriel committed a foul on salah in the 95 or 96 minute in the box
I do remember an awful lot of decisions going against us - I am not talking about forgetting to draw lines or the like. I talk about 50:50, 60:40 decisions that seem to be never going our way
now I don‘t want to blame our draw today on a bad ref - he was bad, the pen was soft but we weren‘t up to it today. what I do feel though is we might manage to win it or in other instances to get a point (like some games this season too) but we somehow get undone by those 50:50,60:40 decisions. what I want to say is - besides the fact as many of you mentioned that we seem to be quite bad offensively - if we hadn‘t had every decision against us, we would have had 4, 5, 6 points more on the board (and would have outperfomed last season by this margin after 20 games). what I know about pool is - as I don‘t watch all their games - they were lucky against soton not conceding a clear pen at 2:1 down in a game they were actually really bad - and that wasn‘t a 50:50, more a 90:10 decision going their way
I know many here are happy enough bashing arteta but can anyone here tell me one decision going for us this season? cala against leicester was the strongest case IMO but if it had been a second yellow for an opponent I swear I would have felt ashamed
Can debate all day about the penalty and the ref but the simple fact is that once again it was an absolute struggle to create anything from open play. Outside of the goal we did fuck all to threaten their keeper. We had a half hour since the equalizer and our best chances, like they have all season long, came from a set piece.
We're set piece FC cause that's all the manager can think of...and even then it's an assistant who deals with them. Maybe Jover is the generational one
Mr Serge - I think I have been going as long as you roughly 83 boy- anyway - this static footy - regression not progression. I really could go to town in this - but main thought is - how can you collect a ball and then shy away and turn your back - is this what it has come to - that’s why I stopped going amongst other reasons after 45 years loyal Archway boy support - you know! Bless you if you still go Mr Serge .
Everybody that started this project has left it. Only Arteta is left. Vinai left, Edu left. Raul before them left as well. This is the clearest indication that we need a change in direction.
I mean it's easy to bag on the manager (and he should be changed if he doesn't win anything this season) but the Kroenkes are the problem. Unless they leave, no tangible progress will be made. Only subjective ones.
The ref fucked us today with his unusual red. We also played shit
We can't win the title with 3 for forwards
Martinelli is a joke
Tross has been as shit
Jesus is just having a golden streak.
Havertz missed the last 2
Under Arteta, we are always 3-5 signings away
I don’t believe it’s that straightforward. You cannot win 1-0 anymore - it’s not the eighties. To many variables now. There is a reason we keep drawing. Tactically -
1.You cant play to hold out.
2. The football has regressed.
3. These tactics are akin to rugby or American football as they seem to just rush ten yards and then hopium.
4. Explained by strangely collecting the ball and refusing to turn in the right direction - i.e turning back to our goal and then falling down - eh!
5. Expecting Rice to put in a pearler (which does) and for correct contact to be made.
6. Pressure from lumpy balls into small players (Luther van tross and Jesus) when a press is on.
7. The play out from the back is being sussed.
8. Deep concern for being boxed in - in deep areas in our box for throw ins. Real concern as we can’t get out which happens from the passage of play from Raya etc.
9. No pace and freedom anymore as it seems like we are automated to gain yardage.
I could go on and on - I have no idea what has happened but it is deeply worrying.
Arteta has been given the keys to the greatest sweatshop in the world but as any knowledgeable business man knows - you have to open the shop for 7 days a week as you only make profit in the final 2. For some reason it seems the shop is only open 4 days to cover his costs. It’s not adding up - I’m baffled.
I missed the game as I am on my final stretch of my holidays.
Really, really chuffed to bits that Ethan scored.
It's such a shame that we couldn't score a second one.
I am OK with the fact that we didn't lose and ended up drawing.
I am not OK with PGMOL trying to fuck us over like they did today.
We need a substantive director of football to help the club make some tough calls.
We need something close to an overhaul; 5-6 players need to be moved on.
-Martinelli’s time need to be ended in July 2025- he will have three years left on his contract. Sell before he deteriorates farther
-Trossard needs to be sold this summer, at least while he still has good residual value
-Zinchenko
-Gabriel Jesus, his recent form should make it easier to sell him.
-Tomiyasu - no explanation needed
-Kiwior, what’s the point because he so far down the list that one wonders why he’s wasting his time.
I wish I could move on Cala and Mikel but that’s not doable. We just went through all that hassle in the summer to sign two squad players.
Before you were arguing and catching feelings over Trossard when I called him out earlier in the season. Told you it’s time to see the back of him.
His attitude is getting as worse as his production …
These are two separate conversations
I want to move Trossard on but I wouldn’t call him names because a referee sent off unfairly imo or because he demanded minutes.
He’s a squad filler we signed for little money, on low wages that needs to be sold while he still has value.
I wouldn’t extend his contract.
They are not separate issues you were just not quick enough to see what a negative he’d become. He’s a selfish prick who only cares about himself. Even Arteta has said he’s difficult to deal with, same with the Brighton manager who couldn’t wait to move him on.
The second yellow against City wasn’t my main gripe against him but rather his petulance over not starting and refusing to celebrate a goal … when you consider how poor and unproductive he’s been through the season, it’s validated my point that he’s more of a negative than a positive on this team
Any player Martinelli has been starting over for the past 2 seasons has my vote to act anyhow they want
Not when you’ve been worse and cost the team a key game. And yeah I still remember that Miss against Villa at home that could’ve won us the title.
But anything he did last season can be forgiven cuz he won us games
We are talking about out two different things then.
My problem with you that day was because you were really cussing him out big time, I took exception to the language you deployed.
This is where we agree to disagree.
The threshold for second yellow card is much higher and for a referee to send him off for that nonsense was an utter disgrace.
You’re like the master of distraction LMAO.
You’d do anything to try and hide your contradictions 🤣🤣🤣okay whatever it ain’t that serious
You have an irrational dislike of Trossard, I don’t. That was what I was calling out. You were out of control with your Trossard name calling that day
What attitudes are you talking about?
Arteta has publicly said several times that he likes Trossard’d fight for minutes .
I want him out because he’s not performing and he’s easily disposed of. He’s over 30 yrs, cost us relatively small money and unlike so many, he’s on small wages. It’s as simple as counting one to ten.
I’ve not reversed myself in any way and there’s nothing I’ve written now that corroborates your irrational dislike of him.
I was never attached to him, he’s been at the club for less than 2 years ffs.
From experience of chatting with you here , we won’t agree on what we disagree on because you don’t even know what you know. I’m wiser from that experience.
These players who need to be moved on were bought by Mikel Arteta.
How come Arteta has spent hundreds of millions buying shit players? It's incredible what Arteta gets away with at Arsenal.
You don't understand. No one above us will buy Martinelli. All our players, if they don't bang, we are losing money on them cos nobody above us will buy them. Only clubs richer than us are the top tier clubs. It's good we only got Marti for 6m so even if we sell to Inter it will be on minimal profit
I know some Arteta bashing is the thing these days but are we really just going to forget the bizarre officiating we have to put with as a club. We’re not going to be allowed to win the league that’s for sure. That said, the gaps in the squad and the overtraining are on the manager. But I’d still take the position we’re in and opportunities that we still have to win something. I’m just still so perplexed at the refs decisions yet again and I watch enough games as a neutral, to not be blinkered as an Arsenal fan. Something is not right…..
It was worse with Wenger and the old man still managed to win things and give us sexy football while spending peanuts.
PGMOL are out to get us. The 3 red cards at the start of the season says it all.
They just don't want us to win.
Period.
Pedro: "We need three big players to move us forward and a little bit of leveling up with the squad..."
Still Pedro: "he fits our profile, he's raw, young, will have two decent seasons under his belt, and he'll be back on the agenda." (Talking about Sesko).
Is he a part of the 3 big signings? In what world is a raw player with 2 average seasons a big signing that will win the league for us?
To be fair to Sesko mystic if we were to sign him he'd be the first proper striker we've actually signed. Havertz and Jesus aren't proper strikers. One was brought in as an 8 and the other is more a tricky winger
He'd still not be good enough, that's actually my point.
Pedro can't seem to make up his mind