CEMENTING THE NEXT LEVEL IN 2024 (LONG READ)

by .

Happy New Year to one and all! I hope you are nursing a bad hangover this morning. I wish I was. My bedtime was 0930 last night after picking up plane plague. I spent a load of money stocking the fridge prepared to battle, alas, the battle was lost. Now it’s dry January and I’ve got illicit goods staring at me every time I reach for the Athletic Greens pot.

Let’s talk about 2024 and some of the things I’d like to see happen this year.

The key premise is there are two areas of improvement I’d like to see. The first one is for the club to go hard at restoring the fraying relationship with fans by fixing the things they have broken in-stadium with tickets and going back to their 2022 mandate of making sure the stadium is red hot at every game.

The second one is about the Sporting Department going hard this summer to shift the squad rebuild project from IN PROGRESS to FINISHED PRODUCT.

If we can achieve those two things, we’ll be unstoppable for the next decade. If we don’t, it’ll be leaving things on the table unnecessarily.

WE’VE GOT OUR ATMOSPHERE BACK

You can hear the stadium noise through the TV, but people pretend you have to be there to experience it and understand the complicated nuance of it all. Well, I went to two games over the winter break and can confirm – the atmosphere ain’t it this season. To be more specific, I sat around different groups of people and mingled in the concourse both times and the lack of noise was a hot topic on every occassion.

Arsenal sends its surrogate fans out every week to explain away why each week the noise levels seem to get worse, but the consensus of not-very-online fans I hang out with is that the new systems put in place have been a flop, and the atmosphere rarely hits the heights of 21/22.

I understand why some of the new ideas were put in place. There was a lot of touting over the past two years and there’s always a desire to have as many people pass through a stadium as possible… but football is different to other spectator sports >IF IF IF< a fizzing game day atmosphere is what you are seeking out. Racing, boxing, and music festivals are annual events in the main and people don’t tend to do it 5+ times a year. A ballot system makes sense in those events. You are seeking fairness in distribution because everyone should be on an equal footing for something that happens once a year. If the only way to get to Taylor Swift concerts was if you’d been before, you’d cause reputational damage, and it’d cost you money in merch sales because you’d be speaking to a smaller market. More to the point – how good a Taylor Swift concert is is not dependent on who is in the crowd.

Balloting systems in football work on paper because you can put a slide up in a meeting and say ‘we have delivered tickets to 60,000 new people who will have memories to cherish as they spread the gospel of Arsenal around the world.’

… but what does the sporting department want? To spread the gospel of Arsenal? Or do they want a red-hot atmosphere every game to give the players some of that home-ground advantage?

‘For tomorrow {West Ham}, please go to the stadium and get it rocking. Get behind the team, inspire them again and the team is going to try to do everything that we can. It’s going to be the last game of the year in front of you so it’s a special moment so let’s make it beautiful’

That’s Mikel Arteta begging for noise. At both the Brighton and West Ham game, Martin Odegaard and various other players tried to rile-up a dead stadium to get more behind the players. Who is the most important man at Arsenal? Mikel Arteta. Who has rebuilt the relationship with the fans to achieve new highs with the atmosphere in the stadium? Mikel Arteta. This will absolutely be a discussion point in the corridors of Colney, if you don’t believe me, watch Martin Odegaard at a home game.

Arsenal had created something magic. They turned around a dead stadium full of toxicity into the best noise machine in the Premier League. Vinai was so pleased with it he bragged about all the amazing things he’d done to help make it happen at the club in a New York Times article titled HOW ARSENAL FOUND IT’S VOICE.

So what happened next? Arsenal took something that was working perfectly and tried to fix it with ideas that didn’t match with the objectives of the sporting department.

Ashburton Army might not be your cup of tea, but who cares? They were noise makers, they had ideas, and they delivered. They complained recently the club stopped talking to them, didn’t approve their tifos, and they’d had their ticket allocation cut. There was a particularly stinging moment during the West Ham game when their away fans sang ‘where’s the wanker on the drum!’ and AA had to respond with a sheepish song. They have been neutered.

The crowd on the internet that say ‘how can you give them credit for the atmosphere’ absolutely lose me. The atmosphere at The Emirates had been TERRIBLE for the entire existence of the stadium. Then Arsenal gives a section to young noisy fans, things get better, and people want to deny the vibrancy of ‘ultras’ had nothing to do with it? Even if you think there are 5 ingredients more important than that… you couldn’t scientifically conclude which one, because your conclusions are feelings-based. So why break any of them?

The club should have looked at the lab experiment they permitted to run, patted themselves on the back, then said ‘how do we scale this?’

There were grim PR issues with AA you could point to. Well, don’t punish everyone, just those that were caught. If AA is too much to handle, seek new groups that could partake in a more inclusive section. Most MLS clubs that have elite supporter sections of 3000 or more will have 6 to 10 groups within a section. Those groups are like social clubs. You can have a latino group or a group that gathers around music – it doesn’t really matter but more groups is better because bad behavior doesn’t represent the whole section. The club gives a cheaper allocation of tickets in exchange for relentless noise for 100 minutes on game day. It is a good deal and the output is global fame. It shows that Arsenal is an old club with a young edgy vibe about it. Sponsors want to be part of that. So do premium ticket buyers.

The answer to a first season of success so good the NYT wrote about it should NOT have been to reduce the ticket allocation and make the noise generator part of the stadium smaller.

As for the balloting system. It’s complicated and the randomised nature means loyal fans who understand the stadium don’t get to go as often. So the stadium always feels like a bunch of brand-new people coming together. Red hot nights are few and far between. Because the process is complicated, people don’t fill their seats. The Brighton game had empty seats scattered all around the stadium. Clamping down on touting by implementing painful rules has the counter impact of making it harder for normal fans to give tickets away. Touting tickets is a sign of success, 10 years ago, I couldn’t give my seats away. Touts are still making the new system work. For them, it’s an inconvenience that’s worth the time. You’ll never stamp them out – but you will make it hard for friends and family to spread tickets between them at late notice. People literally buying burner phones to make things work is not the sign of a process that is working well for the fans. New tech is supposed to simplify, not complicate.

Again, these moves all look good on paper – less touting, more control, better marketing funnel opportunities with people signing up for memberships, more new fans walking through the gates.

… but if the sporting department of the club isn’t happy. No one is happy and your great metrics will not be celebrated like they would at non-football organisations.

I also feel like all of the above has lead to a lot of angst amongst supporters in general. Making things harder for people is never a good thing to do. Arsenal made things harder, crushed the atmosphere, and basically said ‘we don’t really care about that part of the experience.’ The relationship between fans and club really improved over the last 4 years, but it looks like it’s creaking at the seams a bit. There’s still time to fix it, but you need the objectives of the corporate side to align with sporting desires. You also need to correct areas the fans see as painpoints. Sometimes, you have to take and L to earn a W. It’ll be interesting to see if Arsenal will own the error, especially if Arteta is banging the table like the fans.

THE FINISHING MOVES

Arsenal fans have been very patient with Mikel Arteta and Edu. They let the two of them have a very bad year of mistakes and poor results. They got behind young players and elevated their game with unrivaled support. We were rewarded with a system that took us to second last year.

The job Arteta has performed has been immense. Incredible. He is a once-in-a-generation managerial talent we brought in at the ground floor.

But this year, he has to be delivering the final touches to the squad. We can’t be going backwards to go forward this summer. The fans need to see the familiar problems of the last 4 years addressed so we can finally cook as a team.

There are a few areas I’d like us to seriously look at.

FULL BACKS: We have to move towards robust fullbacks at some point. Zinchenko, Tomiyasu, Kieran Tierney, and now Timber have availability problems. Timber was VERY robust, but I’m putting him in here because the start was a knee blow out for him. We can’t keep stuttering in the league because our fullbacks break. Arteta needs to invest in players who can manage more than 6 games in a row before exiting for 3 months. He also needs to address how he manages delicate players with his training methods. The best teams have the most robust players. City is the benchmark, they rotate well, and their players are always ready.

MIDFIELD REBOOT: Big Mo, Jorginho, and Thomas Partey will need to be changed up this summer. It’s going to be a massive ask to replace Thomas Partey, but again, the priority needs to be a warrior that never gets injured. We also have find back-up players that are of a high level, but also happy to play limited minutes because Declan is a warrior and never gets injured. Arsenal cannot be giving any of those three new deals. Particularly Partey, who derails us, but always finds the energy to make it for Ghana.

ATTACKING PIECES: We signed Reiss Nelson to a long-term deal last summer, I told everyone Arteta didn’t fancy him, and guess what, he doesn’t fancy him, and he never plays. Trossard has showed in spurts that he can deliver numbers, but he can’t put Martinelli on the bench right now. We need to get serious about the players that sit behind sub-22-year-old wingers. How Saka doesn’t have a back-up after 3 years of trying is beyond me. Even elite players need competition, but the reality is they need to rest.

Then there’s the striking issue. We don’t have a forward that can score regular goals. Eddie hasn’t hit the level this season despite loads of minutes and Gabriel Jesus is a hipster striker who does everything bar consistently put it in the net; he’s the ‘if you don’t get ____, you don’t get football’ player of the 2024 squad. This summer, we need to address that issue head-on. I want a bully, an aerial duel monster, and a guy that wants to play as a centre forward, not a roaming chaos merchant, and I need to see non-penalty goals and greed in front of goal. I strongly believe that’ll be Ivan Toney and I’m here for it. But we can’t exit the summer without that piece. It’s the crown jewel of this project. Once we can these attacking players in place, we are ready for the next 5 years.

People say ‘why didn’t we do it this summer?’ I hear you. But the whole project has always been about a slower build. We don’t have cash injection owners, we don’t have nation-state money, and doing everything at once certainly didn’t help Chelsea get to the promised land.

Arteta needs to finalize the project and he needs to bring us a big trophy in the next 3 years. If he does that, he’s cemented his legend. We will be able to finally say we got our Arsenal back. As fans, we need to give him this time. I can’t believe some of the embarrassing carry-on I’ve read from fans threatening to withdraw their faith or slobbering over Tottenham Hotspurs. We have the best young manager on the planet, dragging us into the elite level, and he’s done through sheer force of personality at a club no one thought had the guts to back a manager.

We’re on the right path. The core of our squad is scary. The system is the right one. Address the two things above and I think we could have a very exciting 2024 and beyond!

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Mysticleaves

Lol. Martinelli. I believe that he writes to push traffic. It’s a writer’s bread and butter and Pedro is a good one. We fall into that trap every time. As we seek to improve on Jesus and Zinchenko and White and maybe Trossard because in as much as they were level raisers, they aren’t the stardust, maybe that’s also how we should aim to improve on the manager if its eventually seen that he’s not stardust. So far he’s done ok (within his rights) but we may need someone else to win the titles. Moses didn’t lead the Israelites into… Read more »

Un

Madhu
Hang on now
It’s 4 years exactly
Not close to 5 years
It will be close to 5 years next winter

local

I wonder if we will see this at some point
GK
White Saliba Maga
Timber Partey Rice
Saka Ode Jesus Marti

When out of possession, Ode and Timber drop back for 4-4-3

Of course unless we start passing/crossing/shooting quickly we will continue to drop points even with this.

James wood

Victor Boniface – Bayer Leverkusen now on Arsenals radar report the Evening Standard.

Thierry Martinelli

Mystic,
Let’s take stock when the season ends. Not at the total points amassed but the position we finish and how well we play.
Zinchenko has become too comfortable plus he’s being asked to defend and play CM at the same time. Which he can’t.
Jesus, love the guy, but he’s a tier 2 striker bordering on being tier 3.l believe it’s a tactics issue. The boy can finish

Graham62

Re: Pedro writes to push traffic. This may be the case but Pedro must realise that’ll he get far more traffic if he’s honest and straight talking. Football aside, what I do know is that in PR you’re driven to push things through to entice the public to by into a product or service, even if that product or service is not what you expected. As an Arsenal fan and based on my own experiences in life, when people manipulate things to benefit themselves and to hell what anyone thinks, my heckles go up. What I do know that this… Read more »

Graham62

that he’ll get

Graham62

Martinelli

Did the same thing happen with Aubameyang?

There’s a pattern.

Thorough

I really don’t know how people want Arteta to continue much longer. We all witnessed Klopps trajectory in Liverpool. They were abject initially. Then took 3years to piece his crop of players together. And once they were ready they stayed up. Gave ManCity a proper run for the cup loosing only one game and getting 90 points. Then followed it up by winning the league the following season. Two years and 76 epl games drained them and took it’s toll on the team but they had UCL and EPL to show for it. Arteta has been pony til last season.… Read more »

Thierry Martinelli

“What I do know that this has become an Arteta driven blog, pure and simple. Whenever serious questions need to be asked, the subject matter deviates onto other aspects of Arsenal FC that try to put Arteta in a positive light.” 💯 Arsenal could finish 5th but chances are we’ll be asked to name a younger coach with a better xG than Arteta or anything along those lines. We look for whatever stats that will make Arteta look good whenever he’s criticized. Pedro needs to understand that the over the top praise he gives Arteta is what people have a… Read more »

X haka

No doubt in my mind that the Arteta era is now turning exactly into the late Wenger era. 1. No pressure from above to win trophies 2. One dimensional play and tactics, that’s why the ground feels flat match day 3. Same coaches and assistants kept on, despite no one has heard of , basically yes men. As I said yesterday, who is Mick’s sounding board, the Spanish 25 year old, he promoted, the photographer, the goal keeping coach? Also like the late Wenger era, we have the Arteta In/ Out camps. Personally love to see De Zerbi with this… Read more »

raptora

Yeah, I hope we achieve something in this or in our next season. If we don’t, the young players, that are fine with waiting in their early 20s, will run out of patience and will want to move somewhere else with higher chances of winning trophies. It’s a time bomb really. Deliver something big in the next 2 years and we may be able to keep our core. If we don’t, this project might end up a failed one. Not for the financial department of Arsenal, who might be happy to have made it back to the CL, but for… Read more »

X haka

And Wood under Nuno is looking peak Giroud, he was not under Cooper.
Same as Gibbs White.

Olumide

If we’re a serious club, we should be talking to Nagelsmann already.

Un

Mg42 is such a boring cunt
Why does anyone even respond to him
There is nothing there in his posts
Nothing worth reading

Spanishdave

Arteta has coached the flair out of our players, we are not scoring freely anymore.
The problem will be that our owners will not react until it’s far too late.
Arsenal are not ruthless enough with managers only with Emery where we rushed in buying into the Arteta fairy tale.
We are currently playing very poorly and it has been a struggle all season so far.

Graham62

I’ve always felt with Arteta that the players don’t enjoy working under him.
Of course, openly, they will say they do and that they they are learning so much.
I’m not so sure though.

Graham62

Spanishdave

💯 agree.

Thierry Martinelli

Doesn’t matter if we bring in a striker or a LB, our brand of football is not sustainable & is predictable. I don’t remember us giving Kai/Marti a go as a 9. I don’t rate Kai but we’re paying him so we might as well try him – something unpredictable so to say.
Arteta and his staff have been watching replays of our recent (bad) performances, with better angles than us and betters ways to analyse all that’s happening. If they can’t come up with a solution then tough decision need to be made.

Chris

I must admit I do like look of Gibbs-White whenever I’ve seen him, cultured and composed player with good vision and technique.

Kind of feels like he is suited to a club like Wolves/Forest where he would excel. Perhaps he’ll get a shot at a traditional big club at some point if he carries on.

Dissenter

Chris
The way we sometimes talk about Arsenal comes off like we are some type of Real Madrid in the UK
What does.” traditional big club”. even mean?

A club that hasn’t win a title in 19 years ?
A club that hasn’t won a European trophy for 30 years?

Gibbs-White is a good player. period.
No need to speculate. It’s not like we are playing at a higher level. It’s our first champions league in how many years now?

Dissenter

* A club that hasn’won a title in 19 years ?

Pierre

When you look at how we have got out of jail a few times in the last few months with late goals , it should come as no surprise that it would catch up with us in the end Nd we would run out of luck… Late goals v chelsea , luton , united, city and brentford gave the impression that we were doing better than we really were, of course it isn’t sustainable to keep saving games with late goals.. For me , this season it has always been about our lack of creativity and our return to sideways… Read more »

Brian Muff

MG42:

:So here is to hoping that at the end of this season and we find ourselves in a miserable table position, playing boring football that the fans will make their displeasure known and Piers Morgan will pay for planes towing signs over the Emirate similar to what happened at the end of the Wenger era.

How old are you MG42? I’m starting to think you might be very young. If true, I will cut you some slack from now on.

WengerEagle

For all the talk of us being within ‘spitting distance’ and biting of hands, here are some cold hard numbers to mull over after a £200m summer spend: -We are 13, yes THIRTEEN points worse off now than we were this time last season after matchday 20. -We have conceded 6 more and scored 5 less PL goals. This doesn’t even factor in how mechanical and boring to watch we’ve become compared to last season. And last season even that wasn’t enough so people are living in cuckoo land if they are predicting a league title anytime soon. City have… Read more »

Dissenter

Pierre
I get your point but there’s no reason to put Odegaard up top
If Rice is playing Partey, then have Odegaard play very close to the 18 yard box where he’s more lethal
Same for Martinelli and Saka, they are too far from the box to be effective .
They hug the line to create space in the middle.

Arteta needs to relax this inversion nonsense, how does he expect a Kiwior who’s not astute on the left to adapt to a position, while being required to invert?

Freddie Ljungberg

Pierre

“We lack creativity”

Also Pierre:

“I would play Partey / Rice and Havertz in midfield to give us a solid foundation to protect the defence”

So because you hate Ode you’ll take out our only midfielder with an ounce of creativity when that’s what we lack? Great plan.

TitsMcGee

It’s a time bomb really. Deliver something big in the next 2 years and we may be able to keep our core. If we don’t, this project might end up a failed one.”

At some point Arteta needs to finish the job and bring an EPL title home or at least win the UCL. Something. Can’t spend over 600 million on the squad (and even more by the next 2 seasons) and not bring home major trophies.

Thorough

Thierry Martinelli ‘Doesn’t matter if we bring in a striker or a LB, our brand of football is not sustainable & is predictable. I don’t remember us giving Kai/Marti a go as a 9….’ Funny enough Kai played as a 9/false 9 in his very first game for Arsenal during the Charity shield and he didn’t look bad because he wasn’t in the mide of the park fucking things up. Infact I dare say that’s the best we have looked all season. We practically bullied Man City for 100 minutes.The team had everything: defensive solidity, physicality, guile, pace, panache, unpredictability,… Read more »

TitsMcGee

Don’t think we want to reboot everything at this stage. Need to stick with Tets for now but he shouldn’t also be given carte blanche for another 3-4 seasons if he doesn’t make progress.

Said it then and I’ll say it again, we blew a major opportunity last season when we blew an 8 point lead between January and the end of the season. So many clubs were lost at sea and we needed to capitalise.

Dissenter

I think we need to rethink the two city boys in the squad Both of them have run their course and shouldn’t be automatic starters when fit Left to me, Arteta needs to extend the Ramsdale-ruthlessness to them Everyone talks about the obvious need to move on Eddie but they typically shield Jesus from criticism. For me, the only basis why Jesus should be kept is he agrees to be part of rotation for the Saka-Martinelli positions If Jesus isn’t happy to revert back to the wing roles he had at city, then get rid off. One of the bad… Read more »

CG

Havertz and Rice to an extent- have killed the fluency that was built up
Havertz is a complete head scratcher- not a player you really want in the modern game.

Rice – exceptional player- but under Arteta won’t fulfil his huge potential.
He should be our Vieira our Keane- our bucaanering captain, scoring 12- 15 goals a season.

Generational already in his mind- thinks he is an auxiliary center back. Negative and a waste of his talents.

I bet Bellingham cant wait to play in his career under the great Arteta!

Dissenter

I wish Arteta was giving Ruell Walters minutes. It’s better than playing Soares.
BW is carrying a knock and can’t do anything more than stand in the hole , yet Arteta keeps playing him

ETH is having a horrible season at United and will likely get sacked but at least he’s been playing lots of their academy players,

TitsMcGee

Just read somewhere that Havertz is the highest weekly wage earner? Don’t usually follow that stuff ,so extremely late to the party, but that is insane if true.

local

“if he panics and tries to change us into this open expansive side I believe it would be a mistake and we could tumble down the league.” – Pierre

Even if we don’t want to score a lot of goals at least pass the ball around quicker among ourselves.

That way we can keep the ball even when opposition players push/shove/barge into our players without conceding free-kicks.

Passing around at a leisurely/snails pace will only work against deep block teams.

Dissenter

I knew Declan wasn’t going to have a rousing game against Fulham
Rice gets neutralized when he faces teams with midfielders in the mould of Palhinha- they just block his bursting runs.
Westham deployed Alvarez in that role- he completely counterpoised Rice too.

Madhu

All this talk of getting a tall bullying striker is of no avail if we continue this style of playing. We hardly cross the ball either on the ground or on the air, there is no service to the striker, not first time passes to space behind defence etc which every striker craves for. Even with the low blocks iof we have a big stroker unless we cross or service him then it doesnt matter who we get. Key is can Arteta tweak the system to adapt to a more traditional 9 as Plan B? Also doing a double pivot… Read more »

Dissenter

Just read that city don’t play anyone in the top 8 over the next 10 match weeks
This title will be a Klopp-Guardiola shootout
Liverpool rely heavily on Salah for goal contributions and he’s off to the AFCON, so advantage city.

englandsbest

Sincerity is a rarity, opinions in general have a self-interested aim in view. Right now Pedro is accused of running a pro-Arteta campaign, but those making the accusation are exaggerating this notion because it suits their own aim. In fairness let’s assume that both views are sincere. IMO both views are wrong – Arteta is not as good as some say say, nor as bad as others say. He drew the wrong conclusion from last season’s near miss – he surrendered sparkling football for risk-free predictable football. And as we’ve seen in recent games, opposing managers forestall him. It’s my… Read more »

Un

Diss
Why are you getting yourself in a tizz when and Englishman cites a traditional big cub? Do you feel excluded?

Samesong

“We hardly cross the ball either on the ground or on the air, there is no service to the striker,”

https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/clubs/total_cross

This is not true. We are third for the most crosses. I’ve seen countless time we’ve cross the ball with no one in the centre or no one good enough in the air to finish. Saka has been doing those beautiful inswinging crosses

Madhu

Samesong, my bad. My eye test seems to suggest otherwise. May be i need to get glasses as iam nearing 50 :). But its true that there is no body in the box when the crosses comes in.

Dissenter

Un
A good player is a good player.
What’s with all the nonsense about “traditional big club”. They even place spurs in that category

That’s the same nonsense you spout when you try to cut Emery to size- “he’s only good in small clubs”
We love pretending that we are some type of elite institution, which we aren’t.
I mean we just doubled the wages of a goal keeper, four months before we decided he isn’t good enough to be our starter. What elite club does that?

Dissenter

The tactical inflexibility that Mikel has shown this season is similar to the craziness of Ange playing that high line with Romero and Eric Dier Last season where were fluid and spontaneous which suited the youthful base of the squad- deploy your ingenuities instinctively Now he’s trying to control games with a young squad who are not suited to that because it’s contrary to their instincts – you dominate with veterans because that relies a lot more on experience. The manager’s tactical leanings, on reaction to last season’s woes has stymied our season. The way we set out to play… Read more »

Olumide

Many Arsenal fans are happy to call Arsenal a “mega” club. Guess what, mega clubs (in every sport) put big demands on their managers. I mean, by the end of this season, Arteta will have spent 4.5 years at the club. And some people think calling for his sack if he doesn’t win a trophy is a “radical” opinion. If a coach hasn’t shown much in 4.5 years, why should he get 1 more year? At first, the agenda was that Arteta is a great coach who can elevate our players beyond what Emery can do. Then, when that didn’t… Read more »

Dissenter

It’s the same ‘traditional big 6 club’” mentality that will delude anyone to think Douglas Luiz will leave a resurgent Villa to come to Arsenal
They must think Luiz will be blushing once we approach him.

Mikel Coneteta

Dissenter Have to laugh at your continued academy crusade. You say ETH is having a stinker and likely to be sacked but at least he’s playing some academy talent… are the two not fucking clicking? Eddie Howe was getting stroked putting a 17 year old in midfield the past two months. How’s their form been? Oh, fully out of Europe and have they won a game in 10?? Arsenal don’t need teenagers in the XI, we’re plenty young enough as is and the standards for making the match day XI don’t need lowered to suit your ridiculous expectation that academy… Read more »

Olumide

Big clubs are proactive.

Wenger spent years more than he should because of “patience.” The problem is that we had a bigger rebuild when he left.

If we give Arteta a few years more, there’s a big chance we lose some of our good players.

Then, we will need a bigger rebuild when Arteta leaves. How much do we replace Saliba, Saka, and Martinelli? £400 million considering how we overpay for players?

A “generational” manager would have won the league last season.

Let’s all be honest, has Arteta overperformed at Arsenal, considering the time and resources he has?

Marko

If you’re good enough you’re good enough and maybe Walters ain’t good enough. In saying that Mikel clearly and obviously has issues with rotating and in-game management and tactics and formations…and signing the right people…and letting go of players he barely uses… and playing attractive football…

Man has issues but nothing another 3 years won’t fix

Samesong

Mohamed Elneny is on the verge of leaving Arsenal amid growing transfer interest, according to the Daily Mail.

The Egypt international is the subject of offers from Turkish sides Trabzonspor and Besiktas as the Gunners consider offers for fringe players.

The 31-year-old midfielder has made one appearance in the Premier League for the Gunners this season, as he continues to be overlooked by Mikel Arteta.

Since joining the club from Swiss side FC Basel in 2015, Elneny has made 159 appearances, scoring six goals.

Dissenter

Coneteta Of course you subscribe to the notion that everything needs to come of out the transfer window We have a case where Saka isn’t ticking, partly because BW is probably injured, so what does the manager do / Does he play Soares, one of his first signings? _____NO. He does not trust him. Does he trust the academy players who’s been training and traveling with the seniors since the preseason of 2022 – Reull Walters? NO Instead he’s happy to trot out a BW who looks too knackered to go upfront to support Saka. He’s too niggled to close… Read more »

X haka

Wenger spent years more than he should because of “patience.” The problem is that we had a bigger rebuild when he left. As said above, nothing has really changed at the club. The Arteta era has simply morphed into the late Wenger era, where one man rules the roost and KSE just let him get on with it from afar. It works for a while and then. When he does go, probably kicking and screaming like Wenger we start a new process all over again with an all too dominant manager.Rinse and repeat, if you like. The elite clubs have… Read more »

X haka

Wenger spent years more than he should because of “patience.” The problem is that we had a bigger rebuild when he left .As I said above, nothing has really changed at the club. The Arteta era has simply morphed into the late Wenger era, where one man rules the roost and KSE just let him get on with it from afar. It works for a while and then. When he does go, probably kicking and screaming like Wenger we start a new process all over again with an all too dominant manager.Rinse and repeat, if you like. The elite clubs… Read more »

Dissenter

Marko
Maybe Ruell Walters ain’t good enough, that’s w;ants possible
But how do we know that when he’s never gotten minutes in a competitive game

Are you telling me that a knackered Ben White who’s definitely far off from 100% is better than an academy player having the 20 minutes of his life in a dead rubber game at Eindhoven?

I dare say, if Arteta has been appointed immediately after Wenger we wouldn’t have the likes of Saka and ESR.

Max

We need to spend more money. End of. At least another 5 players.

Arteta himself said Arsenal players were good because after 20 games they had opportunity to go top of the league.

After 20 games Aston Villa have 2 more points than Arsenal FC.

ergo Villa have better players than Arsenal FC and we need to spend more money

Mikel Coneteta

Dissenter

It’s a crusade, nothing more. You hold up shit equivalencies like Quansah who is a much better talent than anyone you’re suggesting from our academy. Thing is the last talent Klopp brought through was who? TAA. And he did so because the guy warranted it by being fucking top.

Arteta has no issue playing academy talent that is of the level, and idk if you’re aware, but we have 3 that aren’t of the level still in the squad so maybe the answer is the transfer window seeing as that’s how teams are built annually ffs.

psuedo warrior

DissenterJanuary 2, 2024 12:25:07

Bang on the money Sir.

When it comes to trust and man management, Arteta ranks close to the bottom, of all the coaches/managers I have seen as a football fan.

Even if its a dead rubber match, he sticks to his shortlist than take a gamble

Dissenter

Conetata
‘ Thing is the last talent Klopp brought through was who? TAA.’

Curtis Jones and Harvey Elliot have 2300 minutes these season, between them. Might want to check your stats again
Klopp has played loads of academy players, many of who get sold for good money , same way Guardiola [the checkbook manager ] has played loads of academy okayers who then get sold for good profit – remember Cole Palmer.. Rico Lewis has played almost 1000 minutes this season for a team that will compete for major competitions

psuedo warrior

How can anyone see the plight of Nelson, ESR and claim that Arteta has no problems in using his squad? Never mind 18/19 YOs from the academy

local

While it’s true that academy players(not kids anymore) haven’t improved much, they aren’t entirely to blame for it.

Reiss and ESR have been unable to stay for for whatever reasons.

Reiss and Nketiah (Marti as well) are not suited for the slow build-up style we have now.

Still Arteta decided to keep all three of them.

I wouldn’t mind replacing them with better options but you can’t expect ESR and Reiss to impact games when those who play week-in-week-out are also struggling due to naivety/tactics.

Mikel Coneteta

Dissenter

Curtis Jones furthers my point because he’s levels above Ruell-Walters. Harvey Elliot was bought from Fulham in 2018 for £4M, but good effort.

So TAA, Jones, and Quansah in 8 whole Klopp years.

Yeah, Jurgen is riding their academy hard ain’t he.

Mikel Coneteta

Loool

Pep with Palmer, Foden, Lewis…

Just three England full international quality players, that’s the same as Reull fucking Walters. You’d rather bury your head and think we’ve some premier league level players just chilling in the academy between Snapchat convos than reconcile the fact they’re not good enough.

Paulie

West ham and Fulham have showed everyone that by making sure Rice is stopped from playing then it’s just the same team full of bottlers from the last two seasons with the same clueless manager so the 3 points ,are easily won. Expect Rice to be taken out of games from here on in

Paulie

Also to add to that last comment just keep the ball away from Saliba and bingo there you have it, an easy route to goals, no need to worry about forwards who actually score goals

Chris

Dissenter

Why are you getting so upset about a throwaway remark?

You so often position yourself as a voice of sanity here yet you’re getting wound up by something so innocuous that I didn’t mean anything by. What term shall we all universally use for a big club that meets your approval? (By the way you may have missed it but I wasn’t directly referring to us, Arsenal)

jwl

Rooney fired after a few months is not surprising, I was shocked they hired him in first place because the team was doing well, fans must be really irritated with new management doing stupid things.

WengerEagle

Academy players being good enough is quite rare and in fairness to us we’ve got Saka and ESR who have come through and been extremely impactful on the first team.

Palmer wasn’t deemed good enough to make it at City under Pep let’s not forget. So you’re left with Foden and Lewis which is only two.

Pool have TAA and Jones, the latter of whom is one of their weaker players imo.

Not sure what Dissenter ‘s beef is here.

Brian Muff

It feels a bit early in the season to be back here again, where the sum total of the conversation on here is essentially about changing the manager and pretty much every player coz they’re all bottling shits.

I think you guys have all got a bit carried away with trying to out do each other on who knows best. You’ve talked yourselves into a corner and ended up with an entire squad rebuild 😂😂😂

Have a day off yeah?

WengerEagle

Palmer is overrated anyhow. Half his goals have been penalties

Dissenter

Chris
I’m not sure where you’re upset about my post because it wasn’t a dig at you.
Happy new year to you.

Samir

Palmer is a bigger threat than many of our players atm, that’s for sure.

raptora

WE, re Curtis Jones from 1 hr ago…

AFCAMDEN: If all goes to plan this season, I think we’ll try to sign Curtis Jones for that 8 role next season. Depends on how he progresses/game time he gets up there but Mikel deffo wants him. Might be a Cole Palmer type situation. Been contact already and Jones would like to move south. All depends on how much Klopp uses him.

raptora

Palmer is smooth and I like Curtis Jones.

Zomber

We were really poor in the most demanding period of the season, so let’s bury everyone? In a year that IS transitional. The current form is just a clue, it was for Tottenham at the beginning of the season, it is for us now or for Liverpool (who perform above their level, I think). We all knew that the season is going to be a tough one and tides will de keep turning during the season for us and for the other teams as well. I think this will be in the end a truly comptetitive season for both half… Read more »

Thorough

Radu Dragusin going to Tottenham it seems. One of the best center bags in Italy definitely. And for less than 30mil.

But our galaxy brain only see expensive options. Learnt he’s unto DE Ligt now.

Wenger needs to have a word. All of his FFP frugal ways have gotten undone.

Thorough

Center backa

Paulinho

In regards to Ben White and his lack of overlapping runs, it’s pretty clear (to me at least) that Arteta is tying to imitate what Guardiola did with John Stones last season. Invert him and have him play more centrally. It appears he actually had Thomas Partey earmarked for that role which why the Ghanian started there at the beginning of the season, but he got injured.

It’s all about balance and maybe Arteta thinks we need more bodies in defensive central positions to accomodate Havertz being more offensive than Xhaka.

Samesong

Cole Palmer being called overrated is a little over the top the guys first full season in the premier league and he’s been pretty impressive. He’s a very talented lad from what I’ve seen so far.

Mikel Coneteta

WengerEagle Dissenter has a hard on for Arsenal putting a conveyor belt of academy players into the first XI over fully fledged professionals – who are young btw. It’s a weird dig at Arteta as if it’s a practice you should do irrespective of quality in the talents coming through. As you say, the hot rate for academy players is incredibly low. Clubs know that, managers know that. Charlie Patino was being talked about as a Xhaka replacement in the summer with chest let’s not forget. He’s been decent at best at Swansea. The lack of understanding regarding the step… Read more »

Mikel Coneteta

Cole Palmer isn’t overrated though..

We’d was lyrical about him if he was a Hale Ender. If he’s overrated then I don’t have words for ESR, Eddie, Nelson etc.

Dissenter

I want the manager to give talented academy players a go in situations where the game is already comprehensively won or lost. I want the manager to give talented academy players a go when we have dead rubber games like the PSV game I say so because no club can survive using just the transfer market, that academy has to be seen as an opportunity. Playing academy players requires courage and patience, the same kind of patience Arteta deployed when he splurged 65 million on Havertz. I don’t expect a manager with a short mandate to player youngsters but for… Read more »

Un

Coneteta Kane was deeened not good enough until spurs had a striker crisis now he’s the greatest prem cf of all time behind shearer Cole was off to palace as a winger until we had a lb crisis Now he’s th greatest full back in league history Lampard wasn’t fancied much at West Ham and it was said he was only in the team due to his dad and uncle Even a chelsea, at first was not considered anything other than a very god midfielder Gareth bale was close to being flogged until he got a a few games at… Read more »

Thorough

And it’s not just about not getting Hale enders into the first 11, it is how terrible we are at selling them. Palmer went for good money, Liverpool sold one dude striker nobody knows for over 20 million some years ago, Chelsea are headquarters of making a killing from selling their youths, we on the other hand make little or no money from our youth players.

Un

Dissenter

100% agree

jwl

This guy on twitter, Con Harrison, is a gooner who has connections to club because twice last season he tweeted someone had been injured in training hours before it was announced publicly. Anyways, Con wrote this tweet earlier today. I wonder why Pedro has stopped giving us training ground gossip like he was with Emery. ——- “Aaron Ramsdale wants a move away from Arsenal this window. Goalkeeping coaches doing coaching in Spanish and Ramsdale feels isolated and upset about the situation, he can’t see himself getting back into team and wants first team football to boost he’s England hopes. Arsenal… Read more »

WengerEagle

Samesong

He’s been decent but he’s nowhere near as good as is being made out imo. I get Rashford esque vibes off of him in terms of hiding behind G/A numbers but being thoroughly underwhelming in all-round play.

Jollof Rice

There is absolutely no need to change the manager. Pretty clear that Arteta ain’t going anywhere.

There is however a need for the manager to be more flexible and be prepared to change his tactics every now and again when things ain’t working.

Dissenter

Thorough
How are we going to get “good money” for them, if we deemed them not good enough to play for the Arsenal?
Pep gave Palmer minutes, everyone saw what he could then, then the price tag went up.

WengerEagle

Coneteta

Can’t agree with ESR not being as good as Palmer. I think he’s comfortably more talented when he’s fit but I guess that is moot now because he’s never in condition to play.

Patino was being talked about on here as being better than Wilshere at the same age and he’s barely been standout in the Championship. It’s crazy how overrated our young lads are.

Wilshere at the same age was levels above Patino.

Dissenter

jwl
I swear that I saw that in one the videos the clubs releases; the goalie coach speaking Spanish to Raya when Ramsdale and Hein were there.
At the time it felt a bid weird and exclusionary, not surprised this is being picked upon now.

WengerEagle

Un

Henry is the greatest CF (and player) in PL history, wash your mouth out.

And Kane imo is better than Shearer was.

Madhu

Un 100% agree with your post. Unless given decent play time you cannot judge soemone. Add to your list Willock, he was not considered good enough but he was one of the stars of last season for New Castle. JWL – that’s sad and very unprofessional if the GK coach is coaching in Spanish. Is that the culture Arteta trying to encourage. If both the GK are spanish then its understandable and even if the third choice GK is not spanish then the coaching has to be in common language presumed to be English. If this is true its very… Read more »

Mikel Coneteta

WengerEagle

I think Palmer has levels on his locker, he’s a very tidy footballer and his biggest trait to me when I’ve watched him is his intelligence and awareness which isn’t something you associate with a 20 year old.

Our youth are chronically overrated. Any flicker of ability and people want them fast streamed to the XI as of improvement is linear and that exposure will speed them up into become the next best thing. It’s so cringeworthy.

Paulinho

I think it’s the way Palmer plays the game. He’s a bit of a throwback, both in terms of character and the impish off-the-cuff manner he uses the ball. Some of his touches the other day against Luton were lovely (and productive) and a refreshing change from the robotic play served up by so many these days.

Mikel Coneteta

Un

Why have you turned a debate about academy KIDS stepping up to a top team’s first XI into a misfit transfer medley spanning 30 years?

Scraping the fucking barrel much?

Name the very best Arsenal talents of the last 20 years that have went from the academy to the Arsenal XI for more than 10 starts in a given league campaign.

I’ll wait.

WengerEagle

Coneteta It’s pretty daft to be honest especially when you consider that even elite young talent like Saka and Martinelli blow hot and cold over the course of a whole season and lack that consistency and steadyness of prime talent like Salah, Mane, Mahrez, etc. It’s a different story if you are in a transitional phase and not competing for serious honours, then you can afford to flood your XI with youth. We literally did this with Saka and ESR a few years ago. When you are competing for major honours then unless the talent is unbelievable (Foden, TAA, Vinicius… Read more »

Thorough

Dissenter.
Even the ones that got some minutes for us or their country youth teams, talents ranked high worldwide, we still practically gave them away. The likes of Rene Adelaide, Donyel Mallen, Serge Gnabry, Ismael Bennacer, Glen Kamara, Chuba Akpom, Steph Mavididi, just to mention a few, we’re sold for pittance when other teams could have gotten good money from them.

I think we need a better management from top to bottom actually.

rollen

It’s not players, it’s 100% manager.
WC CF will not change much in this useless attacking system. Arteta did soild clean up and was close to super lucky PL last year. But he is average or below manager, players don’t go to war for him like they do for top managers. He just follows late Wenger template, surrounded by non skill yes man. Unable to change game, change players to keep playing same shit system that everyone knows now. Hopeless.
No person at the club to fix that problem. He will get few years of slow burn 100%.

Dissenter

Wenger eAGLE
“When you are competing for major honours then unless the talent is unbelievable (Foden, TAA, Vinicius Jr, Musiala, Fabregas with the Invincibles, etc) they aren’t about to be blooded into the team in the middle of a season.”

How do you explain Pep using Rico Lewis to kick Kyle Walker out of his stupor when he came back overweight. In the season that City won the league, FA cup,and CL, this 18 year old racked up 901 minutes in the league.
Do you consider Rico Lewis to be of the stratospheric standard of Musaila,, Vinicius and Fabregas?

WengerEagle

I’m just not convinced on Palmer. It’s rare that Pep would sign-off on selling a young player who has top potential in his locker.

It’s different to selling Sterling, Jesus and Sane because City and Pep already got amazing production and success out of these guys whereas Palmer is a young talent.

Eric Garcia, Brahim Diaz and others have gone on to do just ok since leaving City, nothing remotely special.

Especially with Mahrez leaving the club, that should have been Palmer’s spot to take if Pep believed in him like he does Foden and Lewis.