The Premier League moved with brutal force on beleaguered Everton over their breach of profit and sustainability. Sean Dyche sees his team drop into the bottom two after an 10-point deduction. They’ll appeal the case, but it seems pretty cut and shut, the points deduction will stick.
Now, remember I told you about 6 months ago the Arsenal strategy was to be ready when something bad might happen to Manchester City?
Well, stories are now dropping in The Daily Mail that both Chelsea AND City could face relegation if they are found guilty on the charges leveled against them.
That would be a wow moment, but we are entering extremely dicey territory in elite-level sport where entities with the power of nations are imposing their will on our beautiful sport, and the output has been debilitating unfairness.
There are stories doing the rounds that Eden Hazard had his move to Arsenal canceled because Chelsea gave his agent £7m. Was that move the difference between Arsenal going on the same run of dominance as them and not? Highly doubtful. But hard to imagine a world where Eden Hazard in the system wouldn’t have helped. Even the knock on effects – who is banging the door of Arsenal to play with Gervinho? What was the cost of us not having a superstar like Hazard in the ranks?
Why do I raise this point? Because cheating the system won certain clubs’ mega trophies. It made clubs that stuck by the rules look like chumps. It lost people jobs.
Is simply relegating clubs enough here? Do Olympic gold medalists keep their golds if they are caught with an ice cream van full of PEDs?
This is a question for The Premier League.
If cheating for sustained periods of time can allow you to accrue a mass of trophies, plaudits, and money… and the punishment when you get caught after 12 years is relegation. Is that enough?
The cost of two seasons out of Champions League can be absorbed by nation states. Relegation is making anyone at the top end go bankrupt and have to sell up. It’s a mere annoyance.
The biggest companies in the world bake the fines they get from regulators into their business models. A billion-dollar fine for bleeding an industry dry and killing competition doesn’t touch the sides if the profit you accrued during that period is 20x the fine.
If the punishment for cheating lacks bite, guess what, everyone will cheat. There are plenty of experts saying the Chelsea strategy is exactly that… take the fine and the smacked wrists because the progress on the pitch will be worth it.
The telegraphing of these punishments also gives the said clubs the opportunity to strategise around their escape. Lots of players will have relegation clauses. You’re not going to get the greatest players/coaches in the world slumming it in the Championship, but if you have the time, you. could sign all the best young players in the league, use the Championship to get them up to speed, then hit the Premier League with force the next season.
Football is at a weird tipping point. You have nations moving in on the game. We have toothless regulators. Fancy lawyers filibustering cases. The rulebreaking is happening at such a pace no one can keep up. Is this going to be good for the sport long term? Will anyone care? Are we fine with the doping of the game? Will fans enjoy it as long as the best players line up in their club colors?
Always remember: City fans held up a banner and sang songs about their beastly lawyer.
I can’t think of a parallel in history. Everything is entertainment these days. The illusion of fairness might be all we need to be satisfied because we’re fat and happy on a diet of mega transfers and investment in a game that is so far ahead of every other league I don’t think we’ll ever see a cycle of dominance outside England.
Back to Arsenal.
The strategy of wait for those above you to fail is looking more and more like it was a very smart move.
We aged down this summer.
We’re working on our craft this season.
These young men are learning how to manage Europe and the Premier League at the same time.
In the next two years, something brutal is going to happen that will shake the league, then we’ll be ready to bang.
Quite exciting.
Ok, see you in the comments. x
First?
Justice is coming… but is not going to be brutal. Just same old story of meagre fines and no major consequences
I m third ? Highest finish ever
Relegation and the removal of all the titles and trophies-nothing less!
When will Man City get docked for points ? Didn’t even know Everton had a breach that was being investigated.
Be interesting to see if Dyche can keep them out of relegation after that deduction. I think he will.
Reposting for today’s subject..
I don’t expect much of a sanction on Man City whenever it comes, but I know what I’d like to see.For all the years that infractions took place, and all the titles won in the period, I think it shouldn’t be just 1 big penalty. Even if it were a big one like demotion.
I’d like to see multiple seasons of points deductions. Just enough to comfortably prevent them from achieving top 5.
The reason is that this then becomes a financial penalty for them, losing out on UEFA money, and forcing them to spend less for a few years. Some players they’d want to buy might also avoid joining them because of no CL.People at UEFA who tried to do the right thing but were foiled by City legal team, would love to see it too. I think both organizations would have aligned interests for a change.
Good article Pedro. Thanks
Tottenham have conceded more XG than they have created this season. We all know what happens when you are spending more than your check.
Numero wat?
Pedro makes a good point about how giant companies have rainy day funds for when they’re eventually caught in misdeeds.
It’s the same here. I find it hard to imagine any sanction happening that would make non-ManCity fans feel satisfied.
It does always amaze me how how some “neutrals” could cheer for ManCity in a race with us or any other team, considering the obvious cheating.
United fans who were against us last season are the biggest cucks in the world to their local rivals.
Tottenham fans of course we’d understand their motivation.
I still remember the anxiety of Spurs champions league final.
Take a bow Peter great post
If Everton got 12 points gone, then City is gonna get much more than that. Chelsea too.
Pedro
“Why do I raise this point? Because cheating the system won certain clubs’ mega trophies. It made clubs that stuck by the rules look like chumps. It lost people jobs.”
I presume there will be apologies forthcoming from the ignorant WOBS who viciously abused Wenger for so many years when it was obvious to the more intelligent fans that it was never a level playing field .
Sripped of all trophy’s won during that period. A relegation, and 20 points deducted for the next 5 seasons.
Should do the trick.
This is a really hopeful post imo. City and their dirty owners will get away with it. They have a lot of lawyers. And like anything in life, it is only a crime if you are poor and have no influence. 116 charges and Everton’s point deduction came faster. I will be surprised if there is any relegation. But it would be justice if it did happen.
Everton got poor mans justice
City will get let off, and let the fallout begin. Now the pressure is on
Too bad none of this is playing out in a courtroom for the public to see.
Yep.. Peds.. the entire world seems to be coming to a boiling point on all kinds of issues..
Premier League Football , no exception. Justice is kind of the wrong word, really…. because that implies that there is some sort of ruling or punishment that will make it all better.
Just guessing.. but imagine Chelsea will not face relegation for self reporting and already receiving the punishment of forcing their owner to sell the team.
City… who knows… but the first clue will be if Pep announces he is retiring from City to seek other opportunities, elsewhere. He has always said he doesn’t want to be the Captain of the ship when it sinks.
Pierre-
The WOB would most likely agree with you that it wasn’t a level playing field never was, once oil money came into play but Wenger kept acting like it would be some day. Just need to pay off that stadium debt or just need to get Diaby healthy.
. At the very least you have to be more efficient if you can’t compete so you can spend at a more competitive level. Not just roll over and except your 4th place fate while you grow your cash reserve and sign less than quality players. Elite mediocrity. Anyhow the man got his statue.. and your still crying about injustices.
The FA/ PL are in a quandary: come down hard on City and Chelsea, they f*ck two of the more powerful clubs but may avert an independent regulator. Let them off with a slapped wrist and the stench of corruption will surely necessitate the Gov to step in….. damned if they do, damned if they don’t.
Bilbo
They have to come down on them hard. its the correct decision. EPL aint losing any money doing this,
From what I’ve gleaned regarding City’s case–
There are no appeals outside FA/PL jurisdiction (meaning no appeal to the CAS or other courts).
There will be a single appeal allowed.
The case will be heard by an already-appointed 3 member panel.
There can be 2 of 3 members of the panel hearing the case, replaced (if requested by City) for the one appeal.
By what I’ve read about the first case, City was found guilty as charged, but the incessant appeals to every court and entity possible, pushed some aspects of the case, technically, not factually, past a time bar for conviction.
Now though, with judgement having been rendered (in the first case)– finding City guilty of the charges– I cannot see how different facts can be presented that might change the outcome. City were either lying then, lying now, or lying both times.
IANAL disclaimer. Just my distilled-down version of events.
Come to think of it, Arsenal and the other 5 teams should have been punished more severely for the Super League incident
The premier league froze because those 6 teams involved in the super league control 90% of the foreign viewership.
Everton are the low hanging fruit they can easily beat up on.
How do the “more intelligent fans” explain Wengers infatuation with almunia and ospina, as just one example, Pierre?
Mid
“. Not just roll over and except your 4th place fate while you grow your cash reserve and sign less than quality players. Elite mediocrity. Anyhow the man got his statue.. and your still crying about injustices.”
Its Pedro who is “crying about injustices” ، read his post.and he is/was a WOB..
If you think a manager spending a fraction of what chelsea، city and united spent and still kept us in the top 4 for so long and win domestic trophies is “elite mediocrity” then more fool you.
You have learnt nothing these past 5 years as we have finished 5th، 8th ، 8th ، 5th ، 2nd despite spending something like 800 million ، proving how difficult it is to finish in the top 4 ، to win a trophy and then to win the title، in fact the only trophy won in that time was by a team built by Wenger….
.
JWL
Its not infatuation, its cutting your coat according to your weight. The same Wenger that had Almunia also had Seaman, the crazy German keeper whose name weirdly escapes me this moment and you can even add Martinez at Aston Villa to that list.
Habesha
I also was wondering who was charged first between Everton and City seeing as Everton is already been dealt with.
You have a hard time letting things go don’t you Pierre? The man has a statue is celebrated as our greatest manager ever.. rightly so. But, If you think the last ten years of his reign he did everything he could to win..a title then that’s on you. And I wouldn’t be expecting an apology anytime soon for people criticizing that.
I ll bet you Everton’s charges are no where near 115. FA better be saving best for last.
JWL
“How do the “more intelligent fans” explain Wengers infatuation with almunia and ospina, as just one example, Pierre?”
Will just point out that Ospina won 2 fa cups in his short time at Arsenal…..
Wenger’s brilliance is even more obvious today when you consider how much United spend every year and still struggle to make top 4 or play any attractive intelligent football. Guy would come 3rd on scraps and people would call him naive lol
Come to think of it, Arsenal and the other 5 teams should have been punished more severely for the Super League incident
Absolutely, they all should have been fined £100 million each and then faced relegation.
Or at least a suspended relegation sentence. So they are deterred from doing it again.
Hypocrisy in the modern game is off the scale.
I am sure., this will be part of Everton’s appeal.
As for Wenger.
His record looks even more impressive, now Chelsea and Man City have been caught cheating and paying players off the books.
Where it all ends up, no one knows.
“I can’t think of a parallel in history. Everything is entertainment these days. The illusion of fairness might be all we need to be satisfied…”
Not quite an apples-to-apples comparison, but US fans will recognize the multiple similarities to cheating by big money college Basketball and (American) Football programs. Massive money at stake and the governing body (NCAA) rarely comes down hard, if at all, on the cash cow programs that drive viewership and sponsorships even when everyone knows they are cheating and violating recruiting and other NCAA rules. We have just grown numb to it, unfortunately, and are pretty much resigned to the fact it will never be policed justly. Of course, there are many that think the NCAA’s days as an organization and governing body are now numbered, so there is that.
(To give you an idea how much money is at stake here, one large American College Football program recently fired their head coach and paid him $76 million to go away)
Naija
Unbelievable isn’t it? Chelsea and City sitting pretty, and Everton the first be sanctioned. What a joke.
The super league suspects should absolutely have had the book thrown at them. Problem is they didn’t want to push them when they were ostensibly already ready to jump.
Regarding Wenger, I don’t think his tenure needs to be revisited again. Peoples’ positions are entrenched, people aren’t open to constructive dialogue and dogma rules the day.
Habesha, I think Everton’s crimes were fairly cut and shut. City/Chelsea cases are much more complex (given they willfully tried to deceive) and with all the appeals processes open to them, will likely take years unfortunately.
Should Chelsea and City face fine, striped of their trophies or face relegation, who then benefit from it? United? Who is going to punish united for many years of Ferguson pocketing every referee and the entire premier league? For me I feel more painedthose period because Wenger gave everything but all Ferguson had to do was just stand up towards the end of a match they’re losing or drawing only for the official to award frivolous penalties or extend the injury time till united get what they wanted.
Just go back and see our 50th game of the invincible season. You will never see any game like that! Ferguson was the most corrupt manager ever. But he’s so respected in English football that he is untouchable. But Wenger an honest and integrous man is ridiculed especially by the fans of the club he loved so much.
If Ferguson and united can’t be punish by whatever means or way possible, then every club should be left alone. Were it not for Abramovic and Abu Dhabi, united and Ferguson by now would have won 50 trophies since 2005.
Let City and Chelsea keep their trophies, but have great big asterisks right next to them in the record books everyone will know how they were gained.
City fans especially make me laugh. Before the oil money came in, they prided themselves on being ‘Manchester’s finest’ doing things the right way as opposed to the evil empire of United.
One game against City during early Emirates days (not long before the takeover) I was sat next to the away section where their fans chanted about themselves “real club, real fans” what a laugh. I unfortunately work with a plastic City fan and I can’t stand the bloke.
So it is with hope rather than expectation that City get absolutely hammered by the powers that be, but it probably won’t happen because it’s just not the way the world works. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
“ I presume there will be apologies forthcoming from the ignorant WOBS who viciously abused Wenger for so many years when it was obvious to the more intelligent fans that it was never a level playing field .‘
BS Pierre, Wenger was always given sufficient funding in transfer windows but always reverted to being miserly in paying out fees, but rather instead he pretty much always inflated the salaries of many of his middling players – Walcott comes readily to mind amongst others who were never deserving of their over-inflated salaries for marginal returns.
The difference was and always will be was that those teams identified as “cheats” went out and paid for their players whilst Wenger, who was always given enough funding, simply chose to take his own moral path and instead became a sugar daddy to some of the shittiest players to ever put on the Red Shirt for AFC.
Stop it already, your schtick wore itself to nothing a long time ago.
If the FA come down “hard” on both ManCity and Chelsea, how long do you honestly believe they will wait before jumping ship to a Super League? It hasn’t died and really never did.
Ern
You do talk a load of twaddle…
Brilliant Pedro.
Just hope Don Raul hasn’t done anything to compromise AFC though
Hopefully Vinai and others have been double checking all our accounting, etc making sure we are clean. I agree
When the oil money came in, we were skint with building Emirates. Wenger did amazing to get us top 4 for as long as he did.
Also, at the same time, was terrible at getting talent in, bc he thought they were costing too much. Too many coulda shoulda beens.
He was a victim of his own success. Went to his head. Arsenal were his baby.
In some ways the frugality helped us, lets not forget that. But on the pitch we could have been better.
40 plus one still stings. Suarez would have turned us into a juggernaut
“ You do talk a load of twaddle…‘
Having to absorb years of your nonsense Pierre, I take that as an absolute compliment coming from the King of Twaddle!
AFC have a far worse problem than running afoul of FFP, running afoul of the PGMOL!
Some of Wenger’s best work was between 2005-2013 with no trophies… He performed miracles.
Finding out we only missed out on Hazard due to dodgy payments, just further strengthens my belief that’s the case.
But there’s a huge different between under the table payments, and FFP, which is basically a wolf dressed in sheep’s clothing.
I’m not a fan of FFP… I don’t see why restricting investment into small clubs, which then protects the established clubs financial positions is seen as fair?…
In reality.. It’s just more corporate protectionism’s.
FFP hasn’t made Germany, Italy, Scotland or Spain, any-more competitive since it was implemented… In fact it’s made it less competitive than the decade that preceded it.
Football has always been cyclical, City won’t stay at the top forever, that’s not the way football works.
Before City + Chelsea, there was Man United who’d loot all the best domestic talent from other clubs… Which is what Bayern do in Germany now… Without an oligarch or state run club in sight.
You could argue that investment into Chelsea + City broke United’s stranglehold… Which made our league more competitive, and not less.
How’s public ownership working out for Barcelona’s finances?..
Protectionist policies just cause more of the very issue that they’re designed to prevent….. The only thing worse for society that corporate protectionism’s, are government protectionism’s, and they both go hand in hand.
High standards are a good thing, not a bad thing, you don’t make yourself any better, just by making others worse.. That’s just a lazy way of “improving”…
Stifling high standards, just stalls progress + innovation.
The best way to even the playing field would be to producer better quality players in much higher quantities… They should be focused on investing into grassroots football + quality coaching, if they’re serious about trying even things up.
Equality = Levelling down.
Social justice = Selective justice.
Winston Churchill:
“Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.”
Just remember reading Raul paid Mendes I believe for the Pepe transfer, despite Mendes having little to do with Pepe or the clubs?
But yes, Vinai seemed a smart guy hopefully
So Wenger had loads of money to spend even though DD has said the board wanted Wenger to have a net spend of zero for first 3 years of moving the the Emirates
Uefa refused to allow Poland and Israel u21 observe a minutes silence for the 7/10 attacks but hold kneeling sessions for 2 years for 1 black criminal who was killed by a police officer in America
Unbelievable
Ukrainian flags all over every stadium but nothing for those massacred children? New lows every year with these globalist cockroaches
“Uefa refused to allow Poland and Israel u21 observe a minutes silence for the 7/10 attacks but hold kneeling sessions for 2 years for 1 black criminal who was killed by a police officer in America”
Only a fucking idiot would compare these two events.
Even in the skint years, wenger had pull with players. His legend was already in place. Players loved him, father figure type he was, and his strong connections to France/ African players really helped. Players felt safe playing for him, which is good and in some ways bad. he did overpay players, and kept extending them. Ex. diaby- who I think he had a real guilty conscience about
Point is, that players wanted to come but he did not want to pay the fees, hated agents etc.
I can say he kept us clean legally, not running afoul of any laws but was shit in his other judgements
Then the oil money came. Money talks
Karsa should be in charge of everything football related.
good read
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/manchester-city-guilty-then-relegation-203156136.html
https://www.cannonstats.com/p/charlie-patino-hale-ends-next-gem
“ Uefa refused to allow Poland and Israel u21 observe a minutes silence for the 7/10 attacks but hold kneeling sessions for 2 years for 1 black criminal who was killed by a police officer in America”
Your hatred for black people knows no bounds.
But why am I surprised.
You’re the same sick mind that believes no black person is competent enough to coach an EPL team and reached that conclusion by claiming Sol Campbell can’t even speak English.
It’s amazing how they let things like you enter civilized society …
Bloody shame
https://twitter.com/MelissaReddy_/status/1725495169150325047?t=p60CQFXjkEROd-DjU8QIdQ&s=19
https://twitter.com/AkanimiltonM/status/1725505907537105274?t=rEP3S062Z-BoQ5ypt-CHbg&s=19
If we’re being completely honest it is strange that a terrorist attack that killed thousands of innocents and kidknapped countless more does not warrant a 1 min silence
And also the even larger number of innocents who have now lost and continue to lose their lives on the Palestinian side
It actually shouldn’t be controversial to consider those both worthy of a 1 min silence.
I mean for reference 9/11 caused (at the time, not including first responder deaths years down the line due to associated health issues) just shy of 3000 deaths. That’s in a country with a population at the time of circa 290m people
The terrorist attacks in Israel killed around 1200 people and around 240 hostages. That’s out of a population of around 9.5m
So both practically and proportionally the scale of death and destruction those terrorists have caused is unbelievably large.
I don’t doubt by know the retaliation by the Israelies is multiples of times higher as well, not even including the damage to infrastructure, homes etc. and it’s continuing
So the whole situation in Israel is a monumental humanitarian disaster on both sides.
Why is expecting a 1 minute silence for that controversial but Ukraine and issues of race are not?
It’s weird to me at all how much support there is for Hamas’ terrorist attacks. I mean wanting Palestinians to live better and achieve a better (presumably two state solution) makes perfect sense. But those attacks were undertaken by Hamas and directly targeting innocents. The methods used were also unnecessarily brutal.
Anyone who thinks the best way to achieve a better situation for Palestinians is by supporting a murderous terrorist organization like Hamas needs their heads examined. these are barbarians…
The bit that got me the other day was someone from Hamas leadership was saying Israel better stop attacking the hospital where it’s suspected Hamas were hiding out because it will result in the deaths of innocents and that’s against the Geneva convention
I mean if this was coming from a group that hasn’t just brutally murdered over a thousand innocent people and kidknapped a couple of hundred others that comment might have some merit but please lol
The double standards from Hamas is so pathetic it’s not even funny
Ospina had a great world cup, yet Wenger bought him for less than Rama who played for relegated teams and more error prone.
Keep it football China1, the 2 imposters, one from Ottoman lineages masquerriding as bedouine,
the other from eastern Turkic tribes with a narrative they are the chosen ones
Both very vicious and malicious
China some might say Hamas are freedom fighters in an occupied land by a foreign body that keeps them living like prisoners in their own state fighting for their liberation. Not sure how many political parties exist in Gaza to begin with, but seems that there might not have been a lot of choice when they came to power.
I know what Hamas did was horrific but what Israel is doing is 10x more horrific.
I believe in 2 state solution, without violence. This never ending cycle is terribly tragic. Especially to the children who have died…
Once upon a time, plenty of religious groups lived in Palestine without conflicts until the fucking British came in and fucked shit up, around that time, they did that to a lot of countries
This argument that the British came and fucked everything up is kinda misplaced. People were extremely violent anyways in the 1800s. No set of people liked the others, and wars were rampant. And the British left many places like Palestine, but no one fights like this.
I don’t remember who said it, but it was in this blog only I read that liberalism is dead. The Palestinians aren’t liberal, nor are the Israelis, and this doesn’t end.
Why don’t the Palestinians surrender 200 odd terrorists for the Oct 7 attack to the israelis before they ask for ceasefire?
Wenger worked miracles, especially in the early Emirates years. He also had blind spots, such as the gaping chasm that was our central midfield for much of the latter part of his reign. He can be a legend but he had faults. Rather like Churchill as Rich brought him up.
I do not agree with a 1 min silence for the Hamas victims whilst as recompense, Israel is doing it 10 times over. There are horrific atrocities being committed by both sides, victims caught in the middle of this sordid little affair but let’s stop the bloodshed first.
Hamas are cowards, the Israeli Gov are too. Jews, Palestinians alike are caught in the middle.
Seems like the PL place a lot of value on clubs acting in good faith because they can’t be privy to full financial details outside of financial reports. Everton were seen to be in contravention of that which was an aggravating factor in their punishment despite not being seen to willfully trying to circumvent FFP regs. Erm… Chelsea (for years, at least, until they came clean under Todd) and City who have basically said ‘we will drag you through the courts’… looks like if that legal precedent has been set, it could be interesting as and when both clubs do go through formal proceedings.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/nov/17/premier-league-financial-fair-play-everton-manchester-city-chelsea
I immediately think of Barcelona and UTD. who have enormous debt and can probably never
pay it off.. but Everton are easier to target and are used as a smokescreen for the FA.
Man City punished yet?
Or the English still bowing down to the Oil state overlords?
Two state solution really is it possible. Be real that possibility is long gone. Nobody talks about a single state responsible for both Jews and Palestines living in peace with equal rights and opportunity beacuse it’s not what the IS and it’s proxies wants. Please let’s not talk about fairness in anything least of all in FA governed English football.
*US
Wenger did things other people can’t imagine. Looking at manutd, it’s easy to understand how difficult it was. Especially with man utd with Fergie, Chelsea with and after mou and Liverpool outspending us like anything. I wish Pedro would have said ” Oh we will win after 2 years after PL bangs”
Out of all potential solutions, a single state solution with both living in peace is the least likely Madhu
psuedo warrior
As you clearly hate the English so much, the answer is really very simple
“ Uefa refused to allow Poland and Israel u21 observe a minutes silence for the 7/10 attacks…”
Outrages they did that.
Observing a minute of silence for 1400 Israeli victims is the least we can do considering 10000 Palestinian deaths have been observed pretty much in silence as well.
There will be No 2 states, the vicious and malicious like to hide behind absurd ethno Nationalist ideas.
Pretty sure there will be an anti semitic march in a City near you guys today, so go join your mates, and stop polluting the air
One group, vicious and malicious in the finance industry so the Brits designed a plan to get rid, the Balfour declaration
“I presume there will be apologies forthcoming from the ignorant WOBS who viciously abused Wenger for so many years when it was obvious to the more intelligent fans that it was never a level playing field .”
I definitely owe Wenger an apology over the Hazard transfer, where I previously thought he could’ve done more to secure his services.
It now appears he never really stood a chance.
People have a short memory but there was a sustained period post Roman Chelsea take over where any player linked to Arsenal was immediately linked to Chelsea.
Try building a squad in such environment knowing full well you can’t compete financially.
The point is that action should have been taken place from the beginning. Now it id too late. It is oblivious t ask anything more than points deduction
Not sure how two state solution is still possible. How would the second state look like. That state would be nothing but a large prison. It’s not visible and Israel should be pushed to move away from a pure Jewish state to a secular democracy. If the west who behave as the bastion of democracy then it’s incumbent on them to tell their proxy to behave. Palestine arab has as much right to stay in their land and demand equal rights.
I come from a two state solution that was imposed on us by the colonisers and it’s not pretty. Tribalism is at its peak and unless we learn to live with each other there is no hope. That’s the reality and how nature made us. We can deny all we want.
“Pretty sure there will be an anti semitic march in a City near you guys today, so go join your mates, and stop polluting the air”
Sadly there isn’t one near where I live so I’m left with the only other option of polluting the air with my my fellow anti semites, the self hating jews, and the brain washed leftists.
No chance of a two state solution in Israel ever again.Arafat actually refused a 2 state solution under Clinton.
Hamas are butchers and it’s supporters full of hatred and bile Who want to live amongst these barbarians? They would kill the gays and Christians next, given the chance.
They are the most ultra right wing organisation on earth.
If Hamas had the Israeli/IDF weaponry, they would use them on the Israeli people.
A single state solution cannot be a full democracy because this would entail the Jewish Israelis essentially giving up the idea of a Jewish state given there are more Palestinians in the West Bank & Gaza than there are Jews in Israel. Understandably, that’s a straight red.
Two state solution is the only viable solution for both distinct peoples to self-govern. The Good Friday agreement was conceived during awful bloodshed and with a whole lot of bad blood on both sides. Surely it’s conceivable that something can be done but first they need to stop killing each other.
The punishment for breach of FFP must be stripping of all titles and cups won in the period affected. Even more importantly it should involve a forfeiture of ownership without compensation
It is the owners who should be punished more than the supporters. They would have clearly demonstrated they are not fit for purpose
The two state solution is a pipe dream and a lip service.
The extreme fractions on both sides have made sure that option is no longer viable.
Hamas doesn’t acknowledge Israel’s right to exist, and Israeli far right politicians have considered them an enemy but also an asset worth supporting financially, ( fun fact) they did.
That loud sound you’re hearing now is Don’s head exploding.
Note to the Palestinians, when you’re in a constant state of war that you’re losing, every subsequent settlement offer you receive will be less attractive than the last.
Guns agree on most of your points tho two state solutions have been proposed multiple times and rejected by the Palestinian side each time
Hamas’ end game is the eradication of Jews, not a lovely peaceful land where people can co exist in harmony. Gandhi or Nelson Mandela sorts, these people simple are not. And it is the most tolerant of the western societies which sympathize the most with them despite sharing absolutely no values with them – ie what do you think an in power Hamas would do to homosexuals? Stoning or worse? I sympathize greatly with all the innocents on both sides who just want to quietly live in peace like any sane human would. Hamas are not sane people tho, they are literally barbarians who intentionally target innocent women and children. They’re not even collateral, they are literally the target
If getting full independence from Israel was their simple objective, they would be going to the negotiating table with Israel about a two state arrangement instead of burning women and children alive and thinking it would result in anything other than a massive military operation against their people.
If they cared about their fellow Palestinians they would have been looking for a peaceful solution instead.
And I don’t think ‘freedom fighter’ is a valid term for someone who literally runs into the house of unknowing civilians and shoots up everyone in the building. That’s not fighting it’s basic barbarism
Pipe dream, that’s for sure. Remember, though, Hamas represents the Palestinians no more than the Taliban did the average Afghan. Likewise, most Israeli think Netanyahu is nuts and incompetent. Sometimes a catalyst comes out of nowhere, offers a viable alternative for the people to coalesce around and suddenly the situation looks different.
Live in hope!
Wenger went through a sustained period when Chelsea tried stealing all his high value transfer prospects, followed by years of City actually raiding his starting Xl, while dealing with the league permanently sucking on SAF’s cock.
And now people like Pedro, who’ve shitting in Wenger for longer than human memory permits, are kicking up fuss over every single ref decision, claiming it impossible to compete.
China1 here is a fun fact for you. Mahatma Gandhi was called a terrorist by churchill. All he did was lead a freedom struggle through non cooperation and civil disobedience. So we have understand the reality.
We call Churchill a terrorist because he diverted all the rations to England during the war and caused the biggest famine that India has ever seen.
Churchill and the queen were absolute grade A pieces of shit. No better than stalin, but he gets a pass cause he was British I guess
More indians died in both ww1 and ww2 than the British or the Americans. And indians weren’t even involved in the wars directly. It’s a comedy if it was not so sad
Reality of world is few in power do what they want without any consequences and the powerless will have to endure. If they revolt then they are called terrorists and worse. It may be egalitarian but the only way to try hardest to establish a just world where everyone are equal. that’s not possible due to vested interests and hegemonic tendancies of humans. So we go on enduring wars after wars till we eliminate each other. Nature/God created us to love together, but we will do everything to not to.
“More indians died in both ww1 and ww2 than the British or the Americans. And indians weren’t even involved in the wars directly. It’s a comedy if it was not so sad”
I’m not sure that’s accurate.
I’ve read on here, by the residents historian, that the tiny island nation defeated ze germans all by themselves, both times.
These things aren’t up for debate Tom. Google will do actually. Obviously, some people believe in flat earth theory. You can’t help them.
City and Chelsea will be absolutely fine. In fact, so fine that they will not get a single point deducted.
Guaranteed.
And for you saddos that are hoping for Arsenal to be awarded a bullshit title because of a default, again not happening.
A bit unfair to Stalin, the other guy was a racist criminal, read books by Caroline Elkins
He is closer to the little guy with a moustache.
Madhu
You’re not thinking this through…
If parents can’t produce equal amounts of success amongst 2 siblings, then what hope do you have of producing equality amongst 8 billion people?..
The only way you achieve equality is by making everyone equally poor.
Effort, competence, and luck aren’t equal..
If you want to avoid your kids becoming dangerous ideologically driven lefties, blue haired freaks who worship at the altar of Corbyn + Marx…
Then offer them £10 h/r to do 5 hours work around the house, then when you pay them, take 25% off the top in taxes for yourself…
Give their siblings who did none of the work 50%, and then with the £12.50 that’s left, apply taxes to everything they choose to buy… And if they try saving it, just steal £1 a month off that money, and label it inflation.
Then telling them it’s just equality…
I’ve never understood why socialists believe it’s greedy for people to want to keep more of their own money… But believe it’s not greedy for them to want to take a slice of someone else’s money, without putting in any graft themselves….
It was so cold when I walked the dogs this morning… That I actually seen a socialist with his hands in his own pockets…
74,187 Indian army soldiers died in world war 1. A very big total. UK losses were 876,084. US loses 116,516