HUMUNGOUS WIN AGAINST EVERTON – WHAT DID WE LEARN?

by .

Going away to Everton should be easy. It never is. So when we left there yesterday evening with 3 points in hand for the first time since 2017, you’d best believe I was over the moon.

That result was huge. Mikel Arteta added so many dimensions to that game that are worth talking about. The main one for me? We offered up the sort of mature performance we’ve been begging for over the past decade.

No nonsense, total control, calm under pressure, players stepping up to the plate, a victory you feel could be important if we can keep in the title conversation come the end of the season.

Arteta shook things up pre-game. I wrote on Twitter, in the haze of a light hangover, that the selection of David Raya was both unexpected and expected at the same time. I stand by that. Most of us knew change was coming, I’m just not sure we expected it right after the break. You kind of imagine the best way to bring keepers into the mixer is to give them easy games, not long nightmares against bogey teams.

Arteta also did what the haters (using it for lols, calm down) wanted – he dropped Kai Havertz for the imperious Fabio Vieira. Part of me loved the move, Fabio hasn’t been asking questions of Arteta politely, he’s been banging the table with BIG performances. The worry was his size… could he handle being rag dolled by one of the more powerful midfields in the league?

The game was total control from minute one. Everton didn’t fly at us. We flew at them. Our passing was crisp, movement was sharp, and we totally dominated the ball. You knew it’d be a rough afternoon for Everton and there was no doubt that we’d shown up for the three points.

We scored first – Gabriel had a pass cut out by an Everton player, it landed at the feet of Eddie, he laid it off to Fabio who clipped a lovely weighted pass into Martinelli… then BANG, bottom corner. VAR had to intervene, they insisted Eddie was off, despite it being an Everton player who touched the ball last. It was another farcical subjectivity-layering-exercise that was ultimately wrong and the goal was chalked off. Referees in England are so, so desperate to be the story, they should favor the goalscorer, not how clever their mates will think they are.

Arsenal didn’t let their heads drop. But we did lose Martinelli to some sort of muscle tweak. It looked like a hamstring, which would be annoying because you really can’t help but want to point the finger at the international break and fatigue associated with it. He was replaced by Trossard.

The second half started strong, you could see that fatigue was influencing Everton’s game more than ours, chasing shadows gets hard after a while. When it got to 65 minutes, normally you’d fear we were heading for a draw, not with Arsenal this season. We had so much quality off the bench, it always feels like the last 20 could be party time for us, especially with Qatar overtime rules.

Our moment did come – from a short corner masterpiece engineered by Niko Jover. Saka and Odegaard worked the ball into the box, Odegaard found Saka, Saka caught the run of Trossard, the BOSS man hit a sumptuous side-footed shot in off the back post. WHAT A GOAL. Truly dreamy.

The game really opened up after that, but Everton didn’t have much to offer. Not even Calvert Lewin in a face mask could change the dynamic of the game. We had the better chances. Gabi J and Odegaard were guilty of big misses. But who cares, we took the three points and exited a scary ground with the booty (treasure booty you animals).

Before we exit into some spicy conclusions – wasn’t it great to see the wild celebrations after the game by our players? Declan Rice fist-pumping like we’d just toppled City, Saliba losing his shit, Saka jumping around, Jesus getting in the mixer. It was a thing of beauty. This isn’t a group of professionals – this is a group of friends who truly believe they are on the journey to something special together. They knew the importance of that result.

So what else did we love?

Our defensive performance really did feel like a response to some concerns.

Above is Everton’s pass map. Blue passes are successful. Look at how few there are. Look at how our positioning mostly left them with one option: Long balls. They had no luck there. We gave them 1 corner all game, they had next to no long throws, we didn’t give shit freekicks away in soft areas. They couldn’t really get near our box. They had nothing. 0.3 xG was their lowest output of the season so far. That was a defensive masterclass in a preseason/season we’ve been giving up a lot of dim slop.

Let’s talk about David Raya because the Ramsdalians are fuming and in some deep, deep denial about what’s going on here. Ramsdale wasn’t rested, he was dropped. Arteta will call this a rotation thing and he might play that game for a bit, but the reality here is very, very simple. He has lost faith in Aaron, spent a lot of money on a keeper he thinks is better, and he has wasted next to no time getting him in the team. Arteta played the same game when he binned Leno and when he upgraded Tierney. He’s not going to tell you what’s going on because he has to protect his players, but they all know what is happening.

Ruthless. Barbaric. Horrible to watch. Yes, yes, and yes. But this is just more of the same, but with a player we all love.

Aaron will probably start against PSV, but I don’t think he gets back in for the Spurs game. David Raya will be outright number one if he doesn’t make any mistakes and I think the Champions League cup keeper thing changes in 2024.

So what did we make of Raya? Well, he had nothing to do. But we can talk about vibes. The AOP live watchers all said it – the man is ICE cold. His face gives off so little emotion it looks like there might have been a botox accident. He radiates calm, controls his box, and boy oh boy is he outrageous with the ball at his feet. That low fizzer he pinged out of his hands to Bukayo was naughty.

It’s early days, let’s see how his shot-stopping is, and what he’s like in a big game… like the North London Derby. But it doesn’t look good for those that thought he was here to be an expensive back-up. Ramsdalians drawing hard on the copium are going to be disappointed but I don’t think the next big reveal in football is rotating keepers like number 8s not matter how hard Arteta pretends one of his deepest regrets in his managerial history was not having the courage to sub a keeper. I can think about about 50 worse things he’s done.

Let’s keep with Arteta – some other tactical bits I liked.

  • Arsenal players didn’t get pulled into a brawl and that kept the Merseyside crowd painfully quiet
  • He pulled off Zinchenko before he started gassing – giving him no room to make a late fatigue-induced mistakes
  • Instead of pinging aimless balls into small players – we offered up a dangerous corner routine that ended up breaking the deadlock.

Our attacking performance was getting some pelters during the game. We seemed to be a little conservative, perhaps in a bid to keep our defensive side locked down? A simpler answer might be that it’s really, really hard to break down a double deep block enacted by the master of them. Eddie was eaten up by a packed central area and the chance-creating machine wasn’t exactly at its peak. But if you break it down, we scored two legitimate goals and had enough chances to probably do a bit better considering our quality.

Key message: When the defence does its job, you only need one goal, and we nearly always have that in the locker. 12th away clean sheet since the start of last season. Is it time to start talking about why we have a problem at home? Do we need to bring back that Elvis song? Do we need to tell the fans to stop being so supportive? Are the musicians in the concourse causing the problem? A post for another day.

I didn’t think it was Eddie’s best game. He got a little lost. Arteta hooked him quite early. So cutting propaganda for my client ain’t gonna cut it. I think it’s time we saw more of Jesus. He came on and looked lively in his cameo. We really need him to be razor-sharp for next Sunday, so an outing in the Champions League might be needed.

Fabio Vieira had a really solid game. My failed breakout star prediction of last season seems to have ignored all the advice to get bigger – instead, he’s added aggression to his game. He wasn’t a physical match for Everton players, but he was there for speed, and yappiness. He played in our midfield and we controlled the game. Fabio wasn’t a weak link. Say it quietly: I think he might have landed as a player.

Bukayo Saka is still adapting to his reality: He’s going to have players target him whilst trebling up – and the color of his shirt means he’ll not get much protection. Mykolenko fouled him too many times for it not be picked up, but this is his reality now. He was quiet by his own high standards, but still exited the game with an assist. Face it, he’s a slow starter – but that’s all good if he bangs in April.

There was some chatter post-game about the timing of the game. Gary Neville, who has been team Arsenal this season, complained we took too long from corners. A weird angle to go at us about – we are chasing a title, not a point at Goodison. The bigger WTF moment for me was the ref only putting up 4 minutes of added time. That’s gotta be the lowest in any game all season. Not sure how he landed that number, but maybe it was a make-up for chalking a legitimate goal?

So – to finish out. That result was massive, especially given the context of the weekend. Now we can enjoy the PSV home game this week – and a monstrous, monstrous North London Derby against a resurgent Spurs with a painfully likable manager. It’s gonna be a banger of a week. Can’t wait to spend it with you!

Get on our latest podcast below! Sub, follow, like, leave a nice review. See you on the comments. xxx

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Pierre

Pedro
“Raya is here because Arteta thinks he’s better than Ramsdale, it really is that simple.”

100%…..and he’s not wrong.

Dissenter

I agree with Pedro Arteta doesn’t do rotations The Ramsdale-Raya change is a passing of the baton. I was too was hesitant but it’s obvious as to why Ray is preferred. He does everything Ramsdale does ..better and with less drama Raya is what Ramsdale can le, in a few years time if he keeps work hard. I feel for the lad Raya kicks the ball like he’s kissing it. His presence in the box is better than Ramsdale. It does beg the question. was the plan ultimately, why increase Ramsdale wages to a level that will make it impossible… Read more »

Pierre

Raulishuss “The knack at which ode is scoring is top for cm, if veira can replicate that (doesn’t have to be in place of ode necessarily) then it’ll be top. Vieira has top class abilities especially end product beyond reasonable doubt” What I will say is that Vieira being left footed may find it difficult to replicate Odegaard’s goalscoring as he won’t be striking the ball from a more natural position from the inside left position. If you look at his 2/3 half chances v Everton he didn’t show the composure with his strike on the left، whereas cutting in… Read more »

Graham62

Reya is, in my opinion, the better keeper.
Martinez was better.
End of…in my opinion.

MG42

Bob
I will start working on the condolences for you when the Arteta project will go up in flames, so that as an Arteta fan boy you can be comforted in your grief.

Bob N16

Living in a binary world MG,? I’m not a fan boy, Arteta is doing a good job though. Your criticism is verging on troll territory through it’s extremism. By trying to suggest that anybody that disagrees with your position must have an equally convergent extreme position is a Trumpian style argument.

Aaron

Rich,
That is just one type of rotation, non-starters rotated into starting lineup.

The other is to substitute players out early in games. How many times did he do that last year? Not, much, and I do not remember Saliba ever getting rest during the EPL season and that is why he cracked.
However, it seems like Arteta is learning his own lesson how to get more from players- it is called recovery.

Josip Skoblar

Gabriel Martinelli suffers tendon injury.
This is a nasty type of injury. It takes a long time to heal. I hope I am wrong.

Foxy

So we could be seeing a lot more starts for Trossard then on the left. A Trossard, Jesus, Saka front 3 could be pretty dangerous, let’s see

Pierre

Watching forest v Burnley shows difference between football at the top of the league compared to some mid to low table teams… With Arsenal and City discipline is the key word ، compare that to forest and Burnley and it is more about speed ، individuality and aggression with little or no restrictions on their attacking play ، both teams play with little noticeable discipline Ange at Tottenham is setting tottenham up to play a very similar aggressive attacking game ، even Bissouma is allowed to show off his array of skills ، something he wasn’t allowed to do under… Read more »

MG42

“I’m not a fan boy, Arteta is doing a good job though.”

With spending over £600m and having an almost £1 billion squad lots of other EPL managers would do a good job, even Doris the tea lady would fancy a crack at it. With that kind of financial support supporters and KSE can demand better results then a 1:0 win over a team that seems to end up in a relegation scrap. But then the last two seasons have taught us different when Arteta bottled it at the business end.

Northbanker

MG42 – go and talk bollocks on your beloved Tottenham site

Your negativity is so boring.

Northbanker

Raya will be an incredible signing for us and will give the defence the stability it needs

Diss- no it was never the plan as Ram is a keeper still in the making. He will be a great keeper when he comes of age. Look at Martinez – it took him years to get to that level

Richard

MG42, how much have Chelsea, Man Utd, and Liverpool spent? Out of thos 3, only Liverpool have been a consistent challenger to City.
I am all for criticising Arteta when he gets it wrong, but a £600m spend to fast track us to 2nd place in just a few years make sense (if money spent makes sense in the PL at all).
Is £600m value? hell no. But is is relative value.

Rich

Aaron Saliba had an impact injury from a fall against Fulham that went undetected, he then pulled up against Sporting, it had absolutely nothing to do with his workload He played just 2,800 minutes last season, centre backs should be equipped to clock 4,000 – 4,500 minutes, which he was roughly on course for. He played 4,700 minutes at Marseille. Rice + Rodri both clocked 6,000 + minutes last season for club and country, which is certainly on the extreme end. Arteta made 6 changes for our home game against PSV last season, Saliba didn’t play…. I’d expect at least… Read more »

Nigel Tufnel

Gd4 is back happy days!

Nigel Tufnel

Pierre and Dissenter doubling down with Pedro..

All 3 might look silly in a week if Ramsdale starts the next 2 games.

What will you say then?
The baton was passed back, lol.

BTW, I have no problem no matter who Arteta chooses as keeper. I like them both, I just know Pedro has been pushing anti Ramsdale stuff for a year and posters that are usually wrong are jumping on the bandwagon.
If I’m proven wrong I’ll happily admit it.

Markymark

I suppose I’ve been wanting a tough , brutal boss at the Arsenal and now we get a Ramsdale decision I’m not liking it. So be careful what I wish for. Judging by the weight of comments suggesting Raya was calm and collected it would make sense to give him a run. Via the Pod I did agree that we need to bore the Northern crowds to submission. Leave them miserable and down not roaring in our faces causing the home team to go in with ever more competitiveness. It’s something City do well just creating a momentum that kills… Read more »

MG42

Chelsea have a moron as an owner that likes to flash money around and hire multiple Sports Directors that is the explanation for their senseless and aimless spending and has nothing to do with football. Man Utd, haven’t spent in years what they needed, a prolific striker, so both are not good examples for challenging City as both are in rebuilding phases that will take years and in Man Utd’s case rebuilding since SAF left. In the 2021/22 season 5th was avoidable if Edu and Arteta would have covered in the Jan TW the positions of the players that Arteta… Read more »

Un

Pierre
Do you think football will ever revert to the days of free flowing style and give a no10 license to produce moments of spontaneous magic in the pitch?
Was there ever an era that strangled attacking play like this before? I don’t remember one in my time watching the game

Northbanker

Un I agree this is a huge problem. It is so difficult to break these negative teams down. Do their fans really want to watch the shit their teams dish out? It seems that the more TV money these clubs have, the worse their football

Richard

MG42, you have your opinion, that’s fine. Just a shame you are wrong on quite a few levels 😀 J/K Investing in any business is risk. There are no sure things. All any business owner can do is use their smarts, experience, and data to predict how an investment will pan out. Chelsea are a mess, yes. Their investments are all over the shop. Their strategy and planning is seemingly non-existent. Nonetheless they have spent a fortune, and have bought at least 2 players that we were in for in the last 6 months alone. If they had been managed… Read more »

Zacharse

“With spending over £600m and having an almost £1 billion squad lots of other EPL managers would do a good job, even Doris the tea lady would fancy a crack at it.”

like poch etc at chelsea, ten hag and every other utd manager post ferguson, conte at tottenham. all those tea ladies lined up must be a sight.

great call there, and yes the EPL is an expensive league w its own premiums. guess we shouldn’t have created a squad according to yoou, or maybe juts by cheaper less quality players. great thought

Olumide

Some people are saying that Raya didn’t have much to do. What if he didn’t have “much” to do because of he did a lot of “non-showy” things. I think people saying Raya had little to do against Everton are assuming that a keeper’s only job is shot stopping. Today, a keeper does more. There are a few things I noticed about Raya’s game against Everton. 1. He’s more confident playing out from the back. This helped us control the game better. 2. His long balls were more accurate. 3. He caught the ball rather than punch it (I’m surprised… Read more »

Josip Skoblar

Simple: the title contenders this year are City, Pool and us.

MG42

I think I am spot on with my assessment because Chelsea do have raw young players but that is it at the moment. Mudryk fails to understand Premier League football, we dodged a bullet there to everyone’s chagrin. Rashford likes to come off the left but is ineffective going through the middle. Watch them go for someone like Vlah in the Jan TW. Hopefully by May both clubs are still floundering outside top 4 before they find their rhythm.

MG42

“great call there, and yes the EPL is an expensive league w its own premiums. guess we shouldn’t have created a squad according to yoou, or maybe juts by cheaper less quality players. great thought”

Or do the obvious, get a manager that can take a £17m squad and beat Utd, problem solved.

Un

Northbabanker

Even the attacking teams like us are hyper defensive before we consider attacking.
I guess it’s why people love Bellingham so much. He’s a joy to watch and probably the only player I can think of at a top club who plays with freedom in the modern game
I can’t think of any other player in the modern game

Zacharse

another blinder MG

let’s pretend the biggest club in london is actually a tiny club on the south coast, then let’s pretend that every other club will pretend that too especially regarding player sales and purchases, then we can pretend that the fans of that london club would rather, for no particular reason other than some vague criticism of the manager for an even vaguer reason, accept cheaper and lower quality players at their club while they transition into being a smaller club that makes less money. nice dude.

Zacharse

i mean we all know de zerbi would never go to a big club that spends big money. he chose brighton over…. being in the ukraine

jwl

“He has lost faith in Aaron, spent a lot of money on a keeper he thinks is better, and he has wasted next to no time getting him in the team.” We renewed Ramsdale contract in May, he was given a raise and everything, Arteta better not have lost faith in Aaron now or tets is an idiot. However, I think tets is sincere in having two decent keepers constantly rotating, presumably they have different skills that can utilized in different games/scenarios. In the past few seasons, pro hockey has started to have two keepers rotating when previously one keeper… Read more »

MidwestGun

Seems like MG42 is living in a time warp… where his comments would have been relevant maybe 3 years ago… when we were actually struggling.

Now he just sounds like a bitter dude mad at the world for no reason other than hatred of something he has shown he has no understanding of. Where the answer to all our problems are the Tea Lady. Yep that doesn’t sound unhinged at all.

Un

Well aid Midwest
Game set and match

Un

Said

Un

Zach seems cursed with the same affliction
Their walnut sized brains didn’t make it out of 2020. Poor lads

Zacharse

maybe un but i wish it was in the 90’s

what’s your excuse? chronic constipation?

Pedro

Where are my ETH fan boys this evening?

Already got Sal on whatsapp

Madhu

18, 2023 11:48:29 Regarding GK, iam not sure there is anything to worry. We have two very good GKs in Rams and Raya they will share games and learn from each other. Look at Brighton they are setting the trend. Steele played 3 games and Verbruggen 2 and it didn’t make any difference to the way they played. Raya looked unflappable and commands his area. Rams saved important points last season has started this season well. There is nothing to worry about the GK position. Infact it’s one position that we don’t need to worry. We are well stocked with… Read more »

Pedro

JWL, we renewed Ramsdale so he’d retain value

Pedro

Madhu, most of these so called positions are taken based on info I get that you don’t.

Fight me on it, but you saw what I did to the Arteta Out brigade, there is no mercy on this blog for those who don’t come to the light with me

Madhu

Pedro that’s the beauty of the blog. We will fight on and with your superior info might win but the battle is fascinating mate. Count me in.

Zacharse

PedroSeptember 19, 2023 01:50:39
Madhu, most of these so called positions are taken based on info I get that you don’t.

amazed that so many on here haven’t quite figured this out

jwl

How does giving Ramsdale a four year contract with a raise and then bench him for not being good enough five months later retain his value, Pedro?

Dissenter

Pedro
“ JWL, we renewed Ramsdale so he’d retain value”
That’s makes no sense considering that we doubled his wages which will make it very difficult to move him on, if so desired

It’s like we never learn from our mistakes
No one else will pay Ramsdale 120k weekly so the retaining Md value makes no sense

Aaron

Rich, Okay, a 20 year old playing an intense 4700 minutes in Ligue 1 for Marseille on the way to helping that team to CL with no rotation. The following season he played 2800 minutes in the EPL at 21 y/o to help AFC qualify for CL, and broke while trying to help our team keep up with $h*tTy. His injury and AFC’s inability to not be able to “detect it” and subsequent injury for the rest of the season are not mutually exclusive events no matter how you slice it. He is NOT Walker deisel strong-yet. Why do you… Read more »

rollen

Ramsdale is still great young keeper, better man wins simple as that. There is no need to be a dick about this, cut this agenda crap out.
We didnt have control of this game, it was shitty performance against shitty orcs team.
There is big Partey size hole in our midfield and Zinchenko will not fix that, he is weak, loses ball in key area too often and is poor defender. We need someone like younger Partey to replace him,

rollen

lol, chill with this Raya love, he looked good vs zero treat.
We will see in top 6 game.
Hopefully he will be great but its just one super easy game, there wont be many of those this season.

Montana Gooner

Raya has a calm that Ramsdale does not. Easy to see. Ramsdale reminds me of my youth team keeper, who was crazy good but not always rational. Raya exudes chill and his accuracy really was top yesterday. As for the contract I think it’s irrelevant. Arteta wants realistic competition in every position. Ramsdale has strong character and will have a great career, either by winning his position here or moving to another club like Martinez.

Kpankulu

Without Saka we don’t win? He was obsolete yesterday and it’s getting worse. [@Guns of Hackney]

Who provided the freaking assist for the goal yesterday? Just wallow in your crass negativity.

Madhu

Brighton have used both their keepers till now. Steele ahe played 2 and Verbruggen 3 of their 5 games. They both look completely the part comfortable with their feet. I think we may be seeing a new theory on GKs. There could be as many as 60 games this season no reason why each of them.cant play 30 each. Rams and Raya will be rotated and it would be good for the team.

Goobergooner

Well done to the boys, good win against a stubborn(shite) toffees at their place. I’ll take that. We definitely do have a lot of possession without much bite but I think we will see that improve as Jesus comes back into the mix and now trossard out on the left maybe even see ESR get a run out sometime soon. Though having that patience against a “double deep block” haha peds, was a show of maturity in the side. Quite the team goal that! Lovely stuff to watch. That placement from trossard though, what a hit. Vierra did well he’s… Read more »

Goobergooner

Also no way should Marti’s goal should have been called offside. There is no way in hell Gabby was playing that ball into an offside position, and on top of that the opponent played at the ball, literally tried to trap it from what I saw, the result is him mis-playing at the ball. So that’s another load of shite from var in my view.

Goobergooner

Too many shoulds* in that sentence above haha my bad

allezkev

Liverpool have conceded only 4 goals this season in the Premier League, whilst Man City have gone one better conceding only 3 proving beyond doubt how important it is to have a top goalkeeper.

Arsenal with Ramsdale in goal have conceded 4

allezkev

I recall a few years ago how another young goalkeeper was having a mixed time between the Arsenal sticks and was eventually sold to much nodding in agreement because he was deemed not good enough. Wojciech went onto have a very successful career, more successful than the club he left even though he remained a Gooner.

Those who were happy to see him leave at the time flipped a few years later as heqqqq

allezkev

was raising a few trophies

Goobergooner

GoH
September 18, 2023 13:05:53

You are a fucking crack up 😂 talking some absolute shite haha

Luteo Guenreira

I would bet money that MG42 is gambon.

Markymark

It’s starting over at UTD. Internal leaks about how staff don’t like ETH ‘s agents involvement in player transfers.
Drip, drip, drip.

jwl

SunSport can reveal captain Bruno Fernandes confronted fellow midfielder Scott McTominay after United’s third defeat in four games. While centre-back pairing Lisandro Martinez and Victor Lindelof also lost it with each other following a calamitous defensive display. Manager Ten Hag tried to restore order as the post-mortem began on a shocking 3-1 defeat that sparked boos from disgruntled fans.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/24012242/man-utd-brighton-fernandes-mctominay-ten-hag/

Markymark

MG42 – I in turn, will award you a bottle of mothers milk. The order of the Village Idiots and an artistic residency of a nearby basement if Arteta grabs a title with the Arsenal.
I’m sure this makes no sense to you as you have absolutely no relation to GD4?!?
How is Xhaka getting on by the way? I know it was complicated.

Un

Kev

Exactly
I was saying the same earlier
Show me a keeper of the same or younger age who’s better than Aaron Ramsdale and I’ll show you a liar or a fool

Mr Serge

I think he will rotate Raya and Ramsdale no way he gives Ramsdale a pay rise and tanks him

Raya is a catcher not a puncher at goodison where we expected more crosses into the box with their giants it was wiser to play a catcher
The plan worked.

Let’s see over the next few weeks what happens.

Cyril

Remember 98- Manninger came in to support Seaman- we won the league. He was great – I’m sure Seaman didn’t have a problem there. Keepers can get injured too and with this new system of ball playing – could be prone to twinges- tightness etc- it’s a good thing ….

Olumide

Rollen
“Super easy game” is the place where we lost 4 of our last 5 games.
There’s no super easy away game in the premier league.

And even a super easy game can become super hard if you make a single mistake. For example, Bournemouth last season and Fulham this season.

raptora

Sami Mokbel, who said 2 weeks ago that Ramsdale is under growing pressure to keep his position as Arsenal No 1 as Mikel Arteta is ready to give David Raya a run of games, now says that Chavs and Bayern are keeping tabs on Ramsdale and it remains to be seen how Arsenal would react if they were to receive offers for Ramsdale in excess of £60million next summer.

It’s an interesting topic. We’ll see how it goes.

Graham62

From a sporting perspective.
From a Goalkeeping perspective.

Ramsdale is not a relaxed individual.
If you had to describe a keeper with ADHD, this would be Ramsdale.
At corners and free kicks he flaps his arms about.
I’m watching and I get anxious, so how must his defenders be feeling.
Reya brought a calmness to the proceedings.
Long may it continue.

local

While I get that the possession based approach Mikel is following is pragmatic, the keep ball stuff gets dreary after some time.

Not saying every match has to be end-to-end thriller, just that it would be nice to take more risks till we score a couple of goals.

Recycling possession(especially sideways and backwards) is boring, what excites most people are through balls, 1v1 chances, shots, blocks, saves, last ditch tackles, ball hitting the post, corners etc.

At least the tempo of passing should be decent enough to keep the fans engaged.

Jamie

“Show me a keeper of the same or younger age who’s better than Aaron Ramsdale and I’ll show you a liar or a fool”

Donnarumma?

raptora

According to transfermarkt – Diogo Costa (24), is one year younger than Rams (25) and is joint 1st most valuable keeper along with Donnarumma (24), Maignan (28) and Courtois (31).

Rams is just after the pack along with Ederson (30).

The other two I feel deserve a mention are Dortmund’s Gregor Kobel (25) and Mamardashvili (22).

Ramsdale is rated as joint 5th most valuable keeper.
Raya is 12th.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/spieler-statistik/wertvollstespieler/marktwertetop/plus/0/galerie/0?ausrichtung=Torwart&spielerposition_id=alle&altersklasse=alle&jahrgang=0&land_id=0&kontinent_id=0&yt0=Show

MidwestGun

My opinion is Pedro most likely will be correct on the Keeper situation in the end. Rotating Keepers is not a good idea, imo. People keep saying horses for courses… that seems a little ridiculous from the Keeper spot.. as the only thing that matters is wins and save percentage. Ramsdale was / is giving up goals on one or two shots.. that’s not sustainable from a win perspective.

Little early to say if Raya will be better but I bet he will be given every opportunity to see if he is.

Batistuta

Maybe Arteta just comes out and says A is my number 1 or it’s B. The whole media noise in the whole issue is surely not such a good thing…least it’s what i think

raptora

Bati, that will be obvious if he keeps starting Raya in the PL.

X haka

Arsenal recent goalkeepers and in terms of ability I would put

1. Martinez
2. Leno
3. Raya
4. Ramsdale
5. Runnarsson.

And Raya is hardly a world beater.
Brentford probably his level, like Ramsdale was Sheffield United.

Should have just kept Martinez, but that was when “Trust the Process ‘ was in full swing.

AFC Forever

Graham 62 I agree with you. I said yesterday that although I am a huge fan of Ramsdale, in certain games you need a calmer goalkeeper. Winding up home fans can be counter productive and it was crucial we kept that Goodison crowd quiet. There was also the Ramsdale v Pickford situation, I saw a few in the media trying to stoke up that debate. Arteta decided to play Raya because this was the best thing for the team ‘tactically’ for the Everton game. It was obvious part of our game plan was to keep that game 11 v 11… Read more »

Matt B

According to many on here and some pundits, Ramsdale started off very well and has deteriorated since he joined. Our managing as well as our buying and selling of keepers has been a bit odd these past few years. Giving your Number 1 a bumper pay-rise and then bringing in another keeper a few months later is a further illustration of how odd our management of keepers is. I would be amazed if Ramsdale was still here after the end of this season and I suspect if he leaves, he’ll have played very little and his value tanks. We’ve seen… Read more »

Dissenter

Someone here must be high in something if Leno is rated higher than higher than Ramsdale. This is why I wasn’t for this Raya move in the beginning. It’s generating unhealthy debates that are distracting. I fear it will be a Pyrrhic victory at best, with Raya only providing marginal improvements that will come at the price of team cohesion I think Raya may be marginally better but that slight improvement may be just due to the difference in age. It also goes against the concept of signing young players. Aren’t they supposed to get better with age so why… Read more »

raptora

I’ve heard a few opinions how our first CL game in 7 years is more important than a game vs Everton in the PL so in that line of thinking Ramsdale is still our No 1. I can’t agree though. Our game is a Europa League looking group. Our first game is at home vs PSV. Arteta will have a lot of important decisions to make because fans will be all over him if any of our 2 keepers make big mistakes from now on. “Start Raya, Rams is not good enough” or “Ramsdale is young and English, he is… Read more »

Dissenter

Also I wonder if Arteta isn’t being taken in a ride by his goal keeping coach If Ramsdale hasn’t improved as expected, shouldn’t there be a routine inquest as the quality of coaching he’s receiving. Is a goal keeping shoot out with a mentee of the goal keeper coach the best way to resolve this. We had a talented young goalie….young players aren’t there yet and they still make mistakes but that’s the entire premise of getting them younger. Even though I think Raya is better, it’s only by a very slim lead. I’m not sure that Margo all improvement… Read more »

Dissenter

* I’m not sure that marginal improvement is worth the risk of upsetting the cart.*

I don’t know who ‘Margo’ is😀

raptora

AFC: “My take is that, more importantly, he’s effectively saying he’s got two number ones and is prepared to use them according to his ‘tactical’ thinking.. ”

Thing is, like others and you have mentioned what Raya is better than Ramsdale at – calmer, better at dealing with high balls, more accurate at spraying them long balls.

What are Ramsdale’s pluses compared to Raya? It’s a question that needs answering because Raya is obviously better at at least 3 factors already mentioned plus he probably deals with shots towards his near post better.

Dissenter

There’s too much drama in the women’s game
I thought it was only a US thing but after watching the debacle in Spain, it’s obvious that the feminine theatrical nonsense is embedded into how they see the game
The Spanish FA president eventually resigns but that’s not dented the urge for drama one bit.

Dissenter

raptora
To your last post, I dint think Arteta has a definitive answer to Ramsdale pluses vs Raya
Which is why Raya is going to play a lot of games coming up, like in the north London derby and against city.
Arteta is going to play Raya a lot in testy games to see what’s he’s made off, which ain’t good news for Ramsdale- this only fires up the debates even more.

I’m not sure we are even set up properly to benefit from Raya’s long ball superiority

X haka

Ramsdale is simply a poor goalkeeper, so Raya will most likely be better in all departments.
Ramsdale relegated to the subs bench. It won’t be the first time , he has suffered that fate.

In life, you can play the court jester card for so long, before you get rumbled,

Emiratesstroller

Let’s be constructive about the decision making in the summer transfer window. 1. We took on loan RAYA on a modest fee with option to buy. He “replaced” Turner in the squad. It remains to be seen whether he becomes our first choice goalkeeper. What I do know is that he is an upgrade on Turner who was not remotely a starting eleven goalkeeper in games which matter. 2. We bought TIMBER who is designated a Centre Back, although it is clear that he can play in any position along back line. Sadly he got injured but before that occurred… Read more »

Un

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/aaron-ramsdale-gianluigi-donnarumma-alisson-most-valuable-goalkeeper-arsenal-fc-liverpool-man-city-b1086213.html

Rap 🤔
Jamie

Ok apart from him
Donnnarumma hasn’t proved to be the keeper he was once predicted to be
He’s gone for safe money
He’s probably the only guy I would argue for above Ramsdale but at the moment he’s playing in an inferior league. Onana looks great in dutch and Italian leagues but get him in the prem and it’s a different matter

Un

I don’t know who ‘Margo’ is😀

Diss
She’s hot blonde who doesn’t wanna be friends and refuses to wear panties around the house whilst sporting “shawt shawt skirts”

MidwestGun

Changing the Keeper out due to tactical thinking does not seem practical at all. Because when you change the Keeper it affects the entire way the backline plays and what they are used to from their experience of playing with him built up over time and practice.. They can’t be thinking every game ok now what do we do when Ramsdale is playing or Raya is playing. What is this Keeper’s tendencies? Players don’t need to be distracted by.. oh right this guy punches more or this guy likes to pass to his left more when you are playing out… Read more »

Dissenter

Mike Maignan Showed up Donnarumma to be the average keeper that he is

I wonder is this calmness differential between Ramsgame and Raya isn’t just due to age
28-30 years old is the mature adult phase for goalies, that’s what Raya is
Ramsdale is the quintessential adolescent in terms of goal keeper development

Dissenter

Ramsdale, not Ramsgame

Rich

Goalkeepers are the same as any position, it’s about targeting specific profiles, for one system a goalkeeper could be perfect, but for another system that same goalkeeper could be a terrible fit. Wenger once said, “There’s a very small group of players who are just that good, that it doesn’t matter where they choose to play, they’ll be a success, but for the rest, it’s about choosing the right club”… Thomas Frank was on Monday Night Football last night talking about recruitment, they have a specific way of playing, then they look for players with those specific qualities to fit… Read more »

X haka

”’Changing the Keeper out due to tactical thinking does not seem practical at all”’ Midwest Gun.

Simply Arteta being Arteta and very clever in this instance.

That way , he avoids questioning and scrutiny of why he burns through so many goalkeepers every 18 months.

Of course no manager would ever change his goalkeeper mid game, because its plain daft and would unsettle the defence.

But he is a small margins type of manager, so anything is possible with him.

Chris

Cyril

I remember when Manninger came in to the team in 98 and quite a few fans wanted him to keep his spot even when Seaman came back.

He gave off Schmeichel vibes with performances against Wimbledon and at Old Trafford.

Unfortunately he never really recovered from losing his place in the team, it must have had an impact on him, when he did get back in the team he made a few gaffes.

Chris

“It can become robotic, and I hope we find some more cutting edge, but if controlling the tempo + emotion in the game gets us better results, then it is what it is.”

Rich yep, you won’t find me grumbling if we win the CL having won every game 1-0.

Markymark

Seaman made a point that he feels keepers tend to fall into a 50/50 personality split either quite in yer face excitable or reserved and quiet. It need not mean one is better than the other. It’s pretty obvious where Pickford would fit in. It may though cause a manager to think about what he needs in a character fit. Lukic appeared calmer more insular. GG didn’t want that . He wanted a big super confident guy in defence so he gets Seaman. Thinking back I doubt Wilson was a shouter / screamer egoistic type guy. Certainly didn’t seem that… Read more »

China1

With Martinelli out vs psv we could see a starting attack of Jesus trossard vieira ode saka with rice and zin playmaking

It can’t only be me who thinks this looks like a 2010 style arsenal lineup lol. Creative goal scoring Technicians for days

Wenger would be proud

Josip Skoblar

David Seaman is 60 today. Happy birthday, old chap!

China1

I saw Dixon on tv the other day and he’s aged so much

Man makes my heart sad

allezkev

Rapt: I would take what Sami Mokbel says with a huge pinch of sodium, yes repeat what he writes as it aids the debate butdont hang your hat on it.

Just saying.

TheBayingMob

With spending over £600m and having an almost £1 billion squad lots of other EPL managers would do a good job, even Doris the tea lady would fancy a crack at it”

Lololol, because Doris has worked out really well down at the Bridge.

A 2-1 win over Sheff United that required 8 million minutes of added to time to get done and the Spurs trolls have got their hardhats on and fancy it large …