by .

As we enter Tuesday morning, the joy has barely settled on a MONSTER win; everything is good in the world.

Well, unless you are reading Manchester United Twitter. MS Paint has been dusted off and has new relevance as United fans seek to prove that, in actual fact, a pretty clear offside was onside. Erik ten Hag went into victim mode after the game and complained about literally everything. United fans don’t need an excuse to follow suit and so they did.

I’m not really that fussed about arguing the case. The technology spotted the offside, I’m generally about 95% confident in the little lines they draw, so the noise is basically a deflection tactic because the Dutch manager has a lot of mess on his plate this morning.

How can you spend that much money on players and not be able to compete away from home?

Why were there so few touches in our box?

Why are you trying to save a game with a defender you’ve humiliated and a 34 year old from another era?

Why is Jadon Sancho writing press statements about being dropped?

Why is EtH always making excuses – is that good for his team to hear?

How is the club going to deal with another very public domestic violence issue after Brazil took action?

Those are some pretty big problems to have heading into an international break.

A look around the post-win noise, there’s obviously less histrionics because we won a game. But I’ll maintain what I said after the game. Our defending was probably worse than it was against Fulham with our more familiar back 5, but no one noticed because we won. United managed to get double the xG of Fulham but only scored one goal. United didn’t get many touches in our box, but as a team, we gave up the ball cheaply in transition, and we didn’t do a great job for the Rashford goal. Bill Saliba didn’t cover himself in glory and obviously, Kai Havertz won’t like seeing that pass in the post-game analysis session.

When you boil it down to quality of chances and quality of chances conceded – the game worked out. We deserved to concede one goal based on xG and that happened – we deserved to score three goals and that’s what the xG was.

The performance wasn’t perfect, there are lots of bits to continue working on, but against a high-quality top 4 opposition, we did the business and now everyone feels great.

Kai Havertz has a lot of work to do over the break. He needs to get a meditation app, eat some ice cream, watch boxsets of friends, then shake off the victimhood and come back a new man after the break. Channel Arteta’s courtship approach to his wife – conquer your fear in goal like you’d conquer and awkward chat at the bar with a stranger.

*On that comment. It was not surprising to see the permanently offended part of Twitter jump on the comment to make inane cultural commentary over the insidious nature of the story. Firstly, why do we always have to assume the worst in society? Secondly, the phrasing was taken badly out of context because ‘conquistar’ in Spanish means to win the heart. Thirdly, I think everyone understood the context of what he was trying to say. Arteta obviously thinks one of the biggest achievements in his life was convincing his wife he was worthy of her love – he’s allowed to think that – to turn that into an HR violation or create the impression it was a neanderthal comment is disingenuous in the extreme.

Back to Kai…

I do think that because so many people are focused on the lack of output, they missed why Kai Havertz started – he was tactically the right option. He has very strong defensive abilities, he occupies defenders, he has very strong pressing abilities, and he gives you strength in the air. Not many people have noted that a lot of the problems we’ve had so far this season have come down the right. Kai Havertz is doing a good job securing the left. We’re missing a lot of the nearly moments as well and far too many people see those misses as forever stains on his career, vs the early greenshoots of a player who is going to give us more final action output than Granit Xhaka.

This is a man who has scored goals in the Champions League final – he’s not going to air shot again this season. The players will eventually work out how to find him from corners. They’ll learn his runs and find him earlier. I’m not really that worried about the output. This is a very young player by most standards and we need to give him time. Declan Rice has been a #6 for 4 years, he’s coming in after a Euro Cup win, adapting as a #6 isn’t going to be that tough. Kai is coming in from an extremely turbulent 2 years of players mostly as a back-up #9. Adapting to that #8 position will take time but it’ll come. Don’t write him off.

Tomiyasu didn’t get enough praise in my match review post for his brilliant performance coming in at right back. His game looked better, he moved around the pitch like he was copying Zinchenko, and he didn’t make any errors. We always forget that players that are coached well get better. He looks like he’s improving. The only thing lacking with him – as ever – is his availability. Our fullbacks outside Ben White don’t seem good for many games. Is that bad luck or the nature of that position?

Finally, Perry Groves has gone on the radio to talk about his battle with alcohol. It takes a big man to admit a problem like that. We love Perry, he’s been great on our podcast, we wish him all the best on his journey. Big love from everyone at Le Grove! x

Right, I think that’s enough for today… get on Johnny’s ratings via our Patreon. We’re also doing a Q&A this week, so sign up, ask your questions, it will be answered.

See you in the comments. x

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Boom….shake da room


Kai needs a fortunate bit of luck to go his way then his arsenal career will boom


Would we take sanche if the deal was right .


When asked what his greatest achievement was Winston Churchill (WC)!replied “persuading my wife to marry me” – super Mikel Arteta is in good company unless of course you are one of those who write off WC for his early career racist conduct.

There will always be those for whom every silver lining has a cloud. I thought Mikel’s analogy of romancing his wife was touching and revealed him to be much more than just a driven football genius.


We battered manure…they look shite, no way will they be anywhere near top four, far to many good footballing teams in league now.


They do need to install the automated offside system controlled by AI
We all know that lines can be subjectively drawn because we’ve been at the receiving end in the past.

Montana Gooner

I think Arteta is right that Havertz is one of those players that needs to feel the love. Hope we don’t spend a whole year helping to tank his confidence, like we did with Xhaka. Havertz is going through a confidence crisis and needs support to get past it.


FCUK Manure.
They are complaining because everyone, their fans included can see how shit that team is. They are not top 4 team.
There is many reasons to be critical of Arteta, but not about his speaches or private life.
Anthony is a despicable cunt, great match for Manure.

AFC Forever

When you see Manchester United fans complaining about PGMOL and match decisions you do wonder if you’re living in an alternative world.


To all young men out there, you do Not need to convince women anything, women need to convince you, your mere presence should make her knees weak


Mntana “I think Arteta is right that Havertz is one of those players that needs to feel the love. Hope we don’t spend a whole year helping to tank his confidence, like we did with Xhaka. Havertz is going through a confidence crisis and needs support to get past it.” Makes little sense How do fans show him the love? Send flowers to his house or shower him with pillows to cry himself to sleep? We are talking about a marquee signing who’s one of the highest earners at the club. A player in his 4th season in the same… Read more »


‘This is a man who has scored goals in the Champions League final – he’s not going to air shot again this season.’

High praise indeed. And for the bargain price of only £65m

Montana Gooner

Certain players are motivated differently. Maybe Ozil would have been a better example. But telling him to “get out of my club” has never helped anything. I’m not saying he gets a permanent pass, but I do think he should be given time to settle.


Alarm bells were ringing for me when I watched the pre season volley challenge in the USA Ithink it was. Havertz technique for striking the ball on the volley was all wrong and I said so at the time. This made me question if he could ever be a striker as the ability to hit a ball from a cross into the box is an essential skill for an attacker/striker Fast forward to the first half v United and the bouncing ball drops perfectly for Havertz on his favourite left foot 6 yards from goal. Let’s be honest it was… Read more »

Montana Gooner

His technique on the one he scored looked fine to me. It’s a mental thing for him. He needs to figure it out. He should do what Rambo did. Turn off all social media and put your head down. Of course, Rambo might benefit for revisiting that policy with Raya breathing down his neck.

NJ Gooner


I remember that Saliba own goal in an early game, and how the fans sang his name in the aftermath. I also recall that he said in an interview that hearing that was a turning point for him.

So, fans can show love and, apparently, it can matter. We are part of the game, not just the audience, as anyone’s description of the crowd as the “12th man” demonstrates. Otherwise, teams would not be intimidated when they go to Anfield or Old Trafford.

AFC Forever

Montana Gooner

Very well said. Enjoyed your comments they are well reasoned.

It is getting a bit boring having to read the usual suspects dumping on our players but that’s how they get their pleasure. Ben White, Ramsdale, Odegaard, Xhaka etc and many others were all subjected to this nonsense.. Just imagine what they would be doing to Bergkamp and Henry who took time to settle. These people revel in being unpleasant because they don’t have the knowledge to contribute sensibly and maturely. They don’t even have the ability to learn from their previous mistakes and dreadful takes.


I bumped into Pezza of a fashion about 10 Years ago at sotherbys. A willow foundation do, I walked in sarstruck, and kicked him. He said nice tackle. I uttered some gibberish. 1 nil down…… the ginger god.

Montana Gooner

AFC, Thanks, bro. We are on the Grove, are we not? lol

Happy Birthday to the Star Boy, btw. Just love that kid so fucking much.


I don’t know if translated poorly, maybe bad choice of words by arteta, but when a man talks about conquering his wife to make her like him, he sounds like a caveman.


EtH should be on fraud watch, Utd played more convincing football under Ole and they have since spent half a billion and brought back old man Jonny Evans because they have no money/imagination.

Ten Hag loves to complain about refs and other teams but he should look closer to home at his own teams ineptitude.


Havertz is left footed?? 😆

The only saving grace for his air shot was I thought it was on his weaker foot! Professional footballer completely misses the ball five yards from goal – my word. But yeah, the fans are the problem.

Montana Gooner

At no point did I say fans were the problem. Yet.


Pierre – I know what you mean my thoughts went back to pre season. There is something off with Kai he obviously has been able to tick boxes to progress to where he is but seems to show very poor technique at times. ESR in comparison has superb technical skills it’s so sad to see him being overlooked

Montana Gooner

Looks like the boy is just terrible with technique:

Why I Gunna

Cw, I have no idea what you’re talking but it’s very funny regardless. Maybe it’s better that that I don’t

Dis, lol

Bertie Mee

No Chelsea fan has seen these magical qualities that Havertz has .
Their big concern is that we will discover something that he never showed in three seasons at Chelsea. He had the lowest XG of any forward in the PL last season so I wouldn’t bet too much on that air shot stat.
Jonathan Norcross profiled him in the Sunday Times . He basically said that he showed all the ability in the world in Germany but hasn’t transferred that to the PL because he lacks personality . He looks and plays like Nosferatu. At £300 k Pw. Extraordinary.


NJ Gooner “I remember that Saliba own goal in an early game, and how the fans sang his name in the aftermath. I also recall that he said in an interview that hearing that was a turning point for him” I had the Saliba goal in my head when I wrote my post Saliba came back to us from the school of hard knocks, had lots of goodwill before he ever kicked a ball for us, had shown his quality in the away game at Palace so the fans got that. They all knew we were witnessing a player of… Read more »


I don’t think the fans who made collective groans at Havertz against Fulham when he passed a ball back to Rice, rather than make a half turn to see what was ahead of him, did it intentionally
It was a spontaneous reaction that will happen if we are struggling to win a game.

If we are winning 3-0 and Havertz makes a mistake, no one will care. I can’t imagine anyone goes to the stadium to boo any Arsenal player.

Montana Gooner

Dis, I also agree with you on those points, re luck and Arteta. He needs the ball to drop for him.


Pierre You were previously assuring us that Rice wasn’t a No6… That Martinelli was overrated, alongside countless hit pieces on Ødegaard, who you assured us that last seasons goal scoring exploits were a one off…. After previously assuring us that he didn’t have it in him to begin with. Ødegaard is now a clutch player, the timing of his runs is superb, and he finishes with composure, conviction, and purpose. Havertz certainly isn’t a central midfielder, he’s a false 9 or a No10. He does a lot of the dirty work really astutely, the idea some fans have that he’s… Read more »

Positive pete

The Arteta comment was taken out of context by those of a persuasion searching for a stick,literally,any old stick,to beat him with.It’s a very common phrase in the Spanish speaking world & scribblers I’m sure are aware what he meant full well.
Might add.Had the same issue myself with “ She who must be obeyed”🤫so I have sympathy.

Positive pete

As for Manure fans complaining.WTF? Brass necks the lot of em.Taking a leaf out of their whinging managers excuse book.Cant stand him.Has shades of ‘ Maureen’ all over.
Manure hate to lose to Arsenal it absolutely kills them.And the way they lost this one must have been soul destroying.They didn’t play at all well & thought they’d got away with a smash & grab raid only to find it snatched back at the death.That’s what’s eating at them & their alien headed c** t of a manager.


Bertie Mee
“He looks and plays like Nosferatu”
Haha…very mean.
Looking at his days in Germany, it is ridiculous to suggest Havertz has problems with technique or finishing. He is a confidence player who seems to have very low lows and just cannot get the penny to drop for him at Arsenal.
Right now he cannot be dropped as that would shatter whatever’s left of his confidence. I really hope this works out for us and I’m fairly confident it will.

Positive pete

So Webbo owns up for another f** k up by the PGMOL/ VAR.Admits the oilers goal,the 2nd ,very,very important one.Where Ake interferes with play.WAS Offside.No apology & no suspension as yet? As you were & jog on.Lol!
It’s now a weekly occurrence.Surely,surely they see this as a problem? Wtf are the Prem doing about it?


“Right now he cannot be dropped as that would shatter whatever’s left of his confidence. I really hope this works out for us and I’m fairly confident it will.”

I think Artea needs to drop him and bring him in later in games when the oppo is tired.
Havertz didn’t start every game for Chelsea even when they were playing crap.


Actually Haverzt’s sole excellent year at Leverkusen that got all of European football to notice was him playing in the same role as Odegaard.
I don’t know where this false 9 comes in. I don’t know why we thought he would do well on the left.
He played like a classical #10 at Leverkusen, came in from the right


Montana Gooner – those best of video clips knock around for any professional player. I have said he’s obviously ticked boxes to get where he is. But his ability at times to strike a moving ball are quite frankly awful, He’s also failed to shine to any extent within his premier league career. No doubt people will now pile in regarding “That Goal” There is magical thinking going on across a number of podcast in that they insist he is suddenly going to be turned into a world beater after game 5/6/7 – take your pick. Meanwhile ESR doesn’t get… Read more »


I also don’t get how you can have great technique but poor composure? My technique at football is poor and that means little composure. However a few placed passes and I’m off! If I had good technique I’d have no issue at all with composure. It’s the technique gives you composure/ confidence whatever you wish to call it

Montana Gooner

His issue is mostly mental, and possibly adjusting to a new tactical regime, not physical. I don’t believe he should face zero consequences, but he needs time and the support of the manager. I love ESR, but he hasn’t exactly grabbed his chances when they’ve been presented recently. Also a confidence issue. I think that once the UCL gets going, we will see more of ESR and Arteta will have more opportunities to rotate without affecting the player’s confidence levels.

AFC Forever

Have we really got two weeks of ‘Havertz is shit ‘to look forward too? I hate these international breaks.

Montana Gooner

Gonna be a long two weeks. Can’t even watch MessiLS games. He’s still playing for Argentina.

AFC Forever

No surprise PGMOL are dishing out more apologies. I’ve been saying it for years nothing will ever change. It’s not been fit for purpose since Riley decided to create an organisation centred around the North. Howard Webb: “ From the outset I want to say I think this should have been disallowed, this goal,.It certainly appears that Akanji has an impact on Bernd Leno who seems to hesitate. The officials on the field gave the goal. They didn’t see an obvious action that impacted Leno’s ability to play the ball. They see Akanji moving slightly away from the ball to… Read more »



Composure – The state or feeling of being calm and in control of oneself.

Technique – A way of carrying out a particular task, especially the execution or performance of an artistic work or a scientific procedure.

Havertz has the technique, he now just needs to add the calmness and composure to execute it on match day, in high pressure situations.

Technical quality is a skillset, and composure is a state of mind…

If he can put those two things together, we’ll be smoking a pipe.


The problem is these refs never played the game
I don’t even think many of them watch football that much
Everyone knows that you don’t have to touch the ball to interfere with play

It was pretty obvious that Leno had to factor Akanji in before committing to hus dive. He delayed his dive till the last minute to see if there would be a deflection, Akanji’s kicking leg movement made it worse.


I think the Havertz comment is better received coming from you.
I share them too unfortunately and I can’t imagine that any fan, however supportive can do much about it. The player needs to gird his loins and keep working hard until his luck can change.
If home fans see him trying to do positive things, they will back him. If he’s just passing the ball to safe places then it won’t be well received.

AFC Forever


They know the rules, not playing the game is not a get out of jail card. They are paid a lot of money to be ‘professionals”. Not forgetting to draw offside lines, the Onana Foul & now the Ake goal are mistakes that are impossible to make with video. Impossible. Thus is levels of incompetence that cannot be explained. So what’s going on?

Mr Serge

I am really bored with the Kai is crap convo give the guy some time to gel


“You have to laugh. All we ever hear is they need to learn from mistakes. How can these be mistakes? They are supposed to know the rules inside out & they’ve got a frigging slur motion video to watch!! Harrington should be sacked, and his bank accounts checked. It’s happening too many times to be ‘mistakes’. It’s either bias or good old cheating. Have to say, AFC you’re proper referee hater At least we can agree about officiating standards. I know a bloke like you who just absolutely detests referees. He was cheering Jose Mourinho when he attacked Anthony Taylor… Read more »


That Ake goal was so ridiculous that even the city players couldn’t believe it
They asked Haaland and he too said the city players couldn’t believe their luck that they could go into the dressing room 2-1 up.
Had he told the ref to look in the monitor, the ref was experienced to reverse it.

How about the ref just jogs over and see it without any invitation, or play it on the score bioard to save him the jog.


The question we have to ask is: are we stronger and deeper the start of this season or are we weaker and shallower. It’s a question we probably wooden be asking if we had more timber. On the basis of what we’ve seen thus far, I’d say shallower and weaker. To be expected given the sheer number of ins and outs.

Not to worry though, it takes a while to establish rapport with new players and a less predictable style. And the players have an extra year’s experience under their belts. And there’s always the Jan window.

AFC Forever


I don’t hate referees. I detest incompetence and dishonesty. I’ve been proved right so many times. I’ve played at a decent level, coached and never had a problem with officials. Quite the opposite.

PGMOL is not fit for purpose please provide the evidence it is and explain these mistakes. Good luck.



What do you make of Havertz?

AFC Forever


Havertz is a very technical player. He has a languid style that some people misunderstand. His movement in the penalty area and between lines is excellent. Off the ball he’s intelligent. Like most players, confidence is affecting him. Once he gets a bit more confidence and a better understanding of his role, he’ll come good. Looking forward to him with Jesus on the pitch.


AFC I detest premier league referees like roaches. I think they skew results to statistical proportions. That’s why I support every measure to take away game changing decisions out of their hands. One such example is the offside line which is open to subjective interpretation. People say offside is offside but it’s not true; the timing of freeing the video to draw the lines is very subjective. If there’s AI technology that can use 3D models to more accurately determine offside, then we should all be for it. That’s what was used in the Qatar WC. I know we are… Read more »


I have a problem with this Havertz-centric position. Maybe he’s not going to come good until the second half of the season when he may be the one carrying the team. Why do we have to be trying to jam him in at all costs?
I want the team to do well, not just Havertz
If Havertz is struggling, why shouldn’t Vierra or ESR get the benefit of being the ones to play with Jesus?
After all it’s the team, not just one player.

AFC Forever

Dissenter I was in the ground, East Stand. We called it as offside because it was. At least they drew offside lines & didn’t forget. The penalty we was denied was identical to the one Rashford was given against Forest. It’s this subjectivity that needs to be improved. It’s not consistent. The Onana Foul & Ake goal need to be investigated. No excuse for either of those. Two strikes and you’re out let’s start getting rid of them. Also, stop recruiting from the North & appoint local officials. Michael Salisbury who allowed the Onana foul lives 25 miles from Old… Read more »

Montana Gooner

As a former player, I can say I hate referees. Many DID play and made the conscious decision to referee. That says it all. I volunteered to ref kids league once. Awful experience. I have compassion for the refs making the calls on the pitch, but there’s no excuse for blowing some of these calls in the booth. As mentioned, offside needs to be technology only. Take out the human factor.

Montana Gooner

We have 7 games in 3 weeks after the break with UCL, NLD, and ending with City. Rotation is happening.


“..They see Akanji moving slightly away from the ball to let it past him. There’s a flick out of the foot but that’s after the ball has passed.

Webbs stupid or playing games?

Akanji likely wanted to hit the ball somehow but his reaction wasn’t quick enough so when we saw his movement (ie the’flick that Webb mentioned), the ball flew passed him. That’s exactly the evidence Akanji attempted to hit and thus interfere, rather than how it’s construed by Webb.

If this is the standard of a veteran ref and head of PGMOL, God bless the PL.


Any player who is in offside position should ntk interfere with the play for the goal to stand. Which means that he should be stationary in his position and not make any movements. If the player make movements to even avoid the ball then he is interfering with the play and it’s offside. Isn’t that as simple as that?



To all young men out there, you do Not need to convince women anything, women need to convince you, your mere presence should make her knees weak

You forget to sign your statement ‘Sid, CEO, Incel, Inc’



Agree with much of your post but not on the United CB situation. They started with Lindelof and Martinez with Varane out injured. During the game, Martinez got injured and was replaced by Maguire. Near the end of the game, Ten Hag took offo the yellow-carded, tiring Lindelof for Evans.

Evans is basically a vastly experienced 5th choice CB. They were clearly desperate to get rid of Maguire but had no luck there.


What a mess United are. They still have Mason Greenwood on their squad page. Shambles.

Nigel Tufnel

Montana, Really nice contributions to the comments. Agreed with almost all, and the healthy support for our guys. MarkyMark, Lots of respect for your Havertz view. You could be against an acquisition like Havertz, but still come across as really cheering for him to succeed, not just saying it for cover. Other cretinous commenters want him to fail so they can say they were right, and Arteta made an error.– Les miserables only joy in life. I was very against Willian. I was much more against him than you were with Havertz. ….. BUT…. I was really hoping it would… Read more »



You were wrong about Willian-he just had to go to Fulham to prove it!


If Kai is short on confidence or it’s related to his mind surely he will have the best of help from the club. If it’s technical he has help from the club as well. He has the best of facilities to sort out all issues.

Just Another Customer

lol I don’t even have to scroll up to know who posted that fluff


Stop taking these criticisms against well compensated footballers personal.
Arsenal is a ginormous club. In big clubs, fans place expectations on marque signings like Havertz.
It’s what he always been, what exists currently and what it shall ever be.


Pierres analysis of Havertz technique is accurate thats the reason i described him as Chamakh. He lacks elegance and looks clumsy.
@bacaryisgod, nothing but love for you


Some people compared Kai to Ozil which disrespects ozil. Look at the reaction of the two signings. When ozil signed, we were singing, we are a big club again. Kai signing got people stratching their heads. Ozil came on and dominated in his debut with an assist and won the game. Kai was shit in his debut. Ozil Sanchez partnership terrorized defense and he was a key part of the squad for 3 seasons before he finally gave up because the role he played was wiped out of football and managers wanted more dynamic pressers instead of a traditional 10.… Read more »


Adrian Clarke on Handbreak off gave a suggestion to Arsenal comms team regarding fans reaction to Kai. He mentioned that it goes both ways and the comms team needs to sti down Kai and get him to speak about his initial Arsenal days what it means to him to build that bond with Fans. That seems to be one of the ways to build a relationship.


I’m almost Havertzed out of it let’s just hope it gets better!
My very brief experience of Bundesliga watching was interesting to say the least . Very fast paced crash bang wallop with plenty of errors. Sancho in comparison floating around almost mesmeric. If Kai was similar in Germany both appear to be having difficulties in the Premier.
I think we have the same fast pace but generally technique is higher all round. They disappear amongst the generally higher standards and maybe have not got that capacity of application to create a memorable game in the UK.


First things first. I am still over the moon with the result especially considering the regular 90 minutes where it looked a bit ragged despite a lot of good possession. Rice is going to be absolutely massive for us, he makes sweeping up the opponents counter look so damn easy. I seriously have watched the celebration 100 times haha. Big Gabby back did the job a lot of us expected he would. I’m seriously stoked with his performance starting his first game. Un shout out to you there with your comments after the game. Everyone has covered pretty much everything… Read more »


Just to mention that David Raya is not error-free at all. I remember him conceding a simple free kick against Fulham in the playoffs that cost Brentford promotion a few years ago.


Using tech to manage offside is ridiculously easy as well The players are already wearing those silly looking bras which I assume contain the tech for measuring their distance run on the pitch etc You can very easily insert a chip into those and it will take almost all the subjectivity out of the offside The ball has a chip. The players have a chip in their ‘bra’ (everyone wears that shot the same way so it’s fair. It will be a cm or so in front of their chest. The rest would be electronic signals and maths exactly how… Read more »

Guns of Hackney

Stop talking about United or any other club. We got a good call on the offside and capitalised. Done.

As for the Havertz love in from Le Grove. It’s weird. He’s dog shit. A pointless £65m but a player because of his fee appears to be undroppable and immune to criticism. Crackers stuff.

He will not score 5 goals this year and I doubt if he will directly contribute more than 5. Dreadful.


Or simplify the interfering with play from offside rule even further If offside player is inside the box and doesn’t touch the ball, they are by default interfering. If they are outside the box and don’t touch the ball, they are not interfering. Honestly these ‘complicated’ issues are nothing more than an attempt for an increasingly valueless body of refs to try and look important and relevant by applying their ‘expert judgment’ to complex situations. All the while retaining the power to influence games with poor decisions. Meanwhile good tech and common sense rule tweaks would wipe 90% of the… Read more »


Yes there is probably a very simple reason why our defending against Man U may not have been as good as against Fulham, namely Man U had a world class wide forward in Rashford and Fulham didn’t. Also Fulham attack has been seriously weakened by the loss of Mitrovic to Saudi. If We had played the Fulham line up against ManU with Partey as inverted RB and no big Gab Pedro would be peddling a different line of pro Arteta tinkering propaganda.


The squad is ready. Arteta needs to turn down his inner control freak button couple of notches down. That’s it.

Wicked Willy

Diss “It’s what he always been, what exists currently and what it shall ever be.“ By that rationale, we should never pursue progress. Wtf? Was it not a good thing to stamp out racism on the terraces? Is it not a good thing that there is less violence in stadiums, and a more welcoming environment for women etc? And under what definition of the word ‘supporter’ does it say that we fans should be trashing a players’ confidence almost from his very first minutes at the club? It’s fucking ironic given that our three greatest players, Vieira, Titi and Bergkamp… Read more »


What is the expectation for havertz this season? Like how many goals/assist should we expect from him. As for me 7 goals 10 assist.

Josip Skoblar

Pires recently said in an interview that when he joined Arsenal, the crowd was hostile and called him shit. He knew he wasn’t good enough and that made him work harder. He thinks that being criticised or booed for being poor on a pitch is part and parcel of being a well-paid professional footballer. He fully accepted that.

Bob N16

Couldn’t agree more WW!

On a different point, I’m not sure we should have had to pay so much for a player out of form. It’s not Havertz’s fault we overpaid.

Wicked Willy


Yes we did overpay and I would love to know how and why that happened. I know there were rumours about Real Madrid sniffing in preparation for an approach, which may have triggered our hand. But unless that was a thing, I don’t know why we didn’t stand our ground.

Either way, I’m pretty confident he’ll come good and justify the fee. But I don’t like the way our fan base is making it harder for him, albeit it’s mostly the online element.


Sniffing is hardly a competitive bid situation. And at 65m it was a bonkers decision

But it’s happened and I fully endorse the comments we need to get behind our man no matter what


As this is such a popular site- I wanted to pay a nod of respect to Steve Powell who sadly passed a few days after the Palace game he was at. I mention him as he was instrumental in lobbying for planning permission for Arsenal to stay in Islington. Was well known by AFC and a piece was in the Man U match day programme. He spoke and raised debate for supporters groups all around UK and further afield. We all used to meet up after the game around various pubs in Islington and often ended up in the Indian… Read more »

Bob N16

Sadly WW, I’ve already witnessed anger over Havertz’s contribution inside the stadium. One guy about ten seats away from me, shouted abuse about 10 mins from the end of his first game!
He’s not the only one I’ve heard show a clear bias against Havertz, pouncing on his mistakes in a way that other players’ mistakes aren’t treated. I accept the Chelsea connection and the price we paid but it’s hardly supportive!

I find this form of ‘support’ detestable although I understand why some people vent their life’s frustrations at a football match

Bob N16

Nice one Cyril ( couldn’t resist)


Re Havertz, I think it’s a combination of his price tag and the fact that he had 3 not so good seasons that has created a mix of high expectations and distrust in him as he is an ex-Chelski player (we have got burnt a few times with them (Willian/ Chech)). I can only agree that Havertz will need time to adapt. This is why I agree with Diss that Arteta’s attempts at squeezing him into the team is not helping him at the moment. As confirmed by Rice, there is a lot to take in. So a few games… Read more »


Eddie found his mojo through hard work and dedication. He has been rewarded with the
call up to England, hope he scores on his debut.

Matt B

All this Havertz nonsense about him being misunderstood is all very patronising.

It’s quite simple: he hasn’t yet looked like a £65M player who has spent 3-years in the premier league. In comparison to the immediate impact that Rice has had, his impact has been negligible.

He may come good, he may not — we’ll all be able to make a definitive judgement by Christmas. In the meantime, let’s not pretend he’s been anything other than underwhelming. So far…


Sami Mokbel Mail Sport understands Gunners head coach Mikel Arteta is giving serious consideration to giving Raya, a loan arrival from Brentford, a prolonged first-team opportunity in the coming weeks. There is a growing feeling at the Emirates that Arteta wants to give Raya an opportunity to stake his claim for a regular starting role in the team. It remains to be seen when Arteta decides to make a change in goal, but Raya is said to have deeply impressed in training since his arrival, particularly with his ability to accurately play out from defence. Raya is expected to have… Read more »

Wicked Willy

Yes KH has been underwhelming but a definitive judgement after 4 months? Good job we didn’t give Odegaard so little time…i agree he’ll have to sit on the bench if he doesn’t improve soon, and earn his place back in the side, which might be a good thing for him. I’ll happily give him a little more time to come good


Play Raya in the CL games and if he impresses, keep him in the team in the league too. I like Ramsdale a lot but if it is beneficial for the team then it has to be done.

Also it’s absolutely hilarious to witness all the United fans bemoaning reffing decisions with their whole ‘woe is me’ attitude, considering that Man Utd have to be the most luckiest, flukiest team to have ever existed. How many decisions have gone their way over the years and will they ever be drawn away from home in any cup game ever again?


I think with Kai there is a dichotomy. It’s not so much a case of feeling oneself in there’s a disparity from what we should expect to what we are seeing. I’d repeat again there is magical thinking being said across various podcasts where “We the audience are too blind to see his genius which will certainly appear in x amount of games” this is conviction led but like many scenarios in recent years where we will see the sunny uplands. Instead I note life just gets more shitty. For a true horror show of a debut I think of… Read more »


Jai * Kai – Shitty autocorrect

Matt B

WW: Odegaard was new to the EPL and we all know it takes a season for a new player to adjust to the league. That’s not the case with KH…


Matt B

It is very hard to make the case that Havertz had a chance to settle in during such a turbulent time at Chelsea. Different Managers, no consistency with players around him, no set role and forever altering styles of play and formations.

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