SAKA MOVES TO THE NEXT LEVEL

by .

My WORD Bukayo IS looking absolutely exceptional modelling for Queens brand Aimé Leon Dore. What I love about this brand is it is perfectly attainable for frumpy men in their late 30s that have creative hobby and enough money to spend $400 on a slightly altered hat. Bigger picture here… this brand is a cultural phenom, the fact they are using Bukayo in their work speaks to his growing profile off the pitch.

Back to Arsenal…

You can ALWAYS tell how Arsenal are going to play after about 2 minutes of a game. Can the same be said about a transfer window? Borussia Dortmund has made 7 signings and spent €60m… Arsenal? We’ve signed one player from Sau Paulo and we’re being sued by Wolves.

Spurs are making big-name signings, incredible to see them making moves, bringing in a 33-year-old from Inter Milan on a 2 year deal for £180k a week. What I love about these brand name moves is they mostly tank, but without fail, there is always a loyal army of people ready to call the move intelligent. The last two big moves of post-32-year-old players I can remember were Willian, who was fresh off the back of a very strong season at Chelsea… he tanked. But there were a lot of people saying he was a great signing. Then there was Cristiano last summer, who people were celebrating as a cherry-on-top title charge of a signing. He scored goals, but his declining ability to press cost United big time, and they had to drop out of the Champions League.

I’m struggling to think of many older players that drop into the Premier League from other territories that really bang? Thiago Silva is probably about the only one that is really registering? Even Lio Messi dropped a level when he moved away from a club specifically built around him. For that matter, Gini W moved there as well and didn’t really do much last season.

Spurs clearly going for the ‘blow it all on the last two seasons of a fit Harry Kane and Son’ strategy. I’m here for it. I hope it’s costly, painful, and lacking in fruit.

Another club that might be running into difficulties appears to be Liverpool. A top 3 side in the world, no doubt, but reality is this seasone they blew the fine margins in the two competitions that truly matter. Sadio Mane is moving to Germany because he has one year left on his deal and word on the rumour mill is that Mo Salah is being offered just a 15% raise on his current deal and he might exit next summer for free. Why does that matter? Well, one of their best players is leaving, and the other won’t committ. That is disruptive in any system. What makes it even better is they aren’t getting Coutinho money in to help keep the train moving when they’ve gone.

There are some fun stories about ‘nearly’ signings going around. Noa Lang, the exciting Dutch winger plying his trade at Brugge reckons we moved for him. That would indicate quite strongly that we are looking for additional output from wide positions, Lang managed 15 assists and 9 goals, he’s only 22 years old, would come at a decent price.

The biggest story about who we will be signing this summer still seems to be Gabriel Jesus, I think the Athletic say he’s the best pressing forward in the world. I understand that he is top talent, I understand that he’s won big things, I am just really worried that this move is one that you need a graph to prove out. I had people in the comments on this site saying he was actually really good in the air… listen, he scored 9 goals in 22 games as a centre forward for City this season, 4 of those came in one game, prior to that, he was trailing Lacazette for numbers. The season prior, he made 38 appearances as a centre forward and scored 12 goals.

What are the basics here?

He’s played a lot of a games as a centre forward

He hasn’t got a prolific scoring record at 25 and he regularly underperforms his xG

He’s exiting the best creative system in the world and coming to a very junior one

City has been trying to replace him for two season with: A BIG TALL STRIKER

Still, the summer is early, there are options on the market, let’s see where this goes and how we try and address our weaknesses.

Ok, before I go, Johnny Cochrane has pulled together a special piece of Patreon exclusive content. He’s talking about the top 25 Arsenal players of all time. He covers off 5. Jump in and enjoy.

Become a Patreon below and enjoy the work. Johnny made actual slides. Your contribution is worth it for that alone.

Become a Patron!

445 Responses to “SAKA MOVES TO THE NEXT LEVEL”

Jump to comment form ↓

  1. Markymark

    Wenger Eagle
    Rooney was 5”9’ high and 5”9’ wide . Certainly a force of nature and I’d guess as a teenager probably a lot stronger than his peers and excellent centre of gravity.
    As he gets older he’ll have to fight the fat man escaping out of the younger athletic body

  2. Pierre

    Vera
    “I’m far from daft and much like your speculative claims about Eddie, Eriksen, Ozil and the Loch Ness Drogba, you would be wise to never underestimate me…the fact that you don’t take any ownership over your proclivity to take the path less travelled comes across as rather disingenuous…just saying”

    Now there’s a daft comment if ever I’ve seen one.
    Fancy you getting your knickers in a twist because i light heartedly said ” don’t be daft” .

    Some people may be smart but lack common sense and are full of their own self importance, i would say you come into that category.

    Something is not quite right in your personality to be offended by such an innocuous remark .

    .

  3. Graham62

    I love Saka, we all do. It’s not just his footballing abilities it’s also the way he conducts himself. He is, without doubt, a truly decent young man.
    There are few players who make it look effortless when they have the ball at their feet, he is one of them. He plays on the front foot and always looks at creating things for his team.
    Unfortunately, I don’t think he’s playing for the right kind of manager. That’s right, I personally feel that Arteta will be a detriment to Saka’s future progression. I also include our other youngsters here who have the abilities to genuinely hurt the opposition but are being suffocated by Arteta’s style of leadership.

    Natural ball players cannot keep being told to follow such regimental systems. Eventually, things will come to a head.

  4. Graham62

    Pierre

    You’ve called me daft on many occasions over the years but I don’t hold it against you.

    Have you been out on the golf course over the bank holiday?⛳️ 🍻

  5. Pierre

    Vera
    “tbh, here’s some things this organization can do to both show intent and change the culture for “real
    :(1) flip the script when it comes to commonly-held narratives regarding the novice nature of our managerial and administrative teams by bringing in a few individuals of consequence…the fact that what’s currently on offer is eerily reminiscent of the previous regime, when Wenger surrounded himself with rather inconsequential “yes” men, isn’t a good look and simply allows skeptics to logically lean into a negative narrative that already has legs…more importantly, it just makes sense from a footballing perspective
    (2) get rid of those starting players that clearly can’t be part of any reinvention, like Xhaka, then recognize the very real possibility that Ode is primarily a luxury player, who might have to accept a more reduced role, where he comes off the bench and only starts in highly favorable match-ups…it’s good that Laca is off the books, albeit way too late and with nothing coming in return, and I can even accept Eddie’s re-up, as he’s got time on his hands, so long as he’s not been promised a starting role, but we have to make a “real” concerted effort to stop repeating the mistakes of the past…one seemingly simple step forward would be to publicly acknowledge these obvious fuck-ups, without offering up any of the usual excuses, and commit to actually doing better moving forward…now this might seem like an empty gesture, but for far too long there has been a glaring lack of accountability regarding our organizational practices, so just saying it out loud is a very important step forward
    (3) be decisive and forward thinking when it comes to the recruiting of players in key positions…sure it’s fine to take some financially amenable chances when it comes to depth pieces, but what really turns the page is bringing in those types of seminal players who move the collective needle…simply put, don’t take half measures that allow for built-in excuses…furthermore, don’t ever have anyone in the organization ever publicly state that we couldn’t find the right players and never again waste a considerable period of time engaged in some PR-induced wild goose chase unless our intentions are pure and the acquisition in question is truly achievablefor me personally, this organization has a long way to go before it has earned my trust again and I don’t think it’s asking too much that they own their shit, act like fucking professionals and get back into the business of buying and making “stars””

    To put it in simple terms, Arsenal/Arteta needs to find a way of winning football matches away from home.
    Home form is fine.

    The rest is all bollocks as far as I’m concerned.

  6. Un

    Gonna go to war with those cunt slugs today

    They keep eating my asiatic Lily before it can grow
    It’s beautiful

    I’m going to get a hanging basket today and re-plant it, high up, where the cunts wouldn’t move their lazy slow slimy arses near it
    And any of those fuckers I see near it are getting salted into oblivion

  7. andy1886

    Love it Freddie.

    Or is it because they’re just lazy f*kin homeless snails who’ve never done a day’s work in their lives?

  8. Mr Serge

    Them bastard slugs lol I am more worried about grahams neighbours cats are they spurs fans Graham ? Or are they pro Arteta ? Either way I can see how that’s a problem for you. 😂

  9. Bob N16

    Graham, do you not think that Guardiola allows his players freedom, does he ‘suffocate’ his players? Grealish might feel constrained for example.

  10. Habesha Gooner

    I would feel better if we can wrap up Tielemans and Jesus by the end of next week. There are a lot of options for the other positions like LB and RW/LW. We can take our time on those. We can also have the freedom to target a RB if we have enough funds after that.

    But Jesus and Tielemans are the most value for money signings we can make considering quality, age and price tag.

  11. Graham62

    It’s great!
    Bob and englandsbest scanning my posts and not going with the flow.

    Bob, comparing Arteta with Pep is one of my favourites and englandsbest providing my daily amusement once again.

    Oh the joys of LG.

  12. Habesha Gooner

    https://fbref.com/en/players/56f7a928/scout/365_euro/Youri-Tielemans-Scouting-Report

    This is Tielemans’s last season performance. He didn’t have a great season by his standards. But he still came out to more than 80th percentile in most attacking Metrics. In a crappy season for him, he still was better than most players on the market.

    For a team that is lacking in goals, 25 to 35 mil is peanuts yo get a player like him.

    We would be sacrificing a bit of defensive stability but we would gain so much more in attacking football. His interception numbers aren’t he best.

    Anything we would lose in defensive phase of the game though, we would be getting in attack. And we have needed a number 8 that assists and scores goals for a while. His XA, XG numbers are amazing.

  13. CG

    Siddeq

    “””Tielmans is another Not bad but Not great/exceptional type player””””

    Well said.

    Hardly set the world alight for Leicester this season.

    Packs a good shot, nice passer.

    Not very athletic, chubby facial features- a him and Xhaka pairing will make us very susceptible to the counter attack.

    Bit to similar for Elneny,Xhaka and Odegaard for me.

    (Need a D. Rice type in there )
    or even Mount of Chelsea.

    ps. why don’t the club buy the players who have 12 months on their contracts, next summer and not this one.

    They would save themselves an awful lot of cash.

  14. Samesong

    Tielmans is another Not bad but Not great/exceptional type player

    It’s about building a squad for now. Would you of questioned if he signed in January? as I’m sure he would of improved us and got us over the line for CL

  15. Siddeeq

    Pedro was blaming Fofana for Leicester defensive weaknesses, the culprit was Tielmans in midfield.

  16. raptora

    I’m upset we still can’t get ahead of the curve and get the best young players in here.

    Excuse me but the best young players currently in the club, are our Hale Enders + Saliba and Martinelli who were brought in the same window months before Arteta took charge.

    Since then we’ve missed on so many exciting players.

    Camavinga is in Real M.
    Tchouameni is about to sign for Real as well.
    Gravenberch is going to Bayern.
    Ekitike to Newcastle.

    Just to name a few and I know I’m forgetting some as well.

    The painful thing about it? LeGrove has been talking these players up for the past 1 or 2 years. We saw their elite potential.

    What did our dudes do? Spent 80m on White and Ramsdale.

    It’s annoying cause Emery wanted Nkunku, another elite talent.
    And we, as I said, got Martinelli and Saliba in the same window that we could have secured Nkunku. All 3 are elite talents.

    Since then, it’s supposedly been Project Youth, yet we’ve spent incredible amounts of money for just good/solid players. It’s just not good enough.

  17. InsideRight

    It’s interesting to see De Tomas getting mentions here. When I mentioned him several times last year no one commented about him. He may be 28 this autumn, but he has good attributes and no matter what clubs he’s played for he’s always delivered goals. To me that suggests he can play in different systems and still have an eye for goal.

  18. raptora

    It’s so annoying for real.
    We are nowhere near professional scouts, but we’ve been talking those players up. Especially Camavinga, Tchouameni and Gravenberch.

    raptoraJanuary 11, 2022 12:53:46
    It was just a few days ago that I had a 20 min “scouting” of several strikers that we should be looking at, and Newcastle are supposedly in talks with one of them – Hugo Ekitike.8 goals and 2 assists in roughly 10 full games (10 starts and 7 subs for a total of 866 mins played). He’s playing for Reims, he’s 19 yo and 189 cm tall (6 ft 2). At that age you never know how a player will progress. Could be the new Sanogo or a potential Adebayor/Drogba.

  19. raptora

    Danjuma moved from Bournemonth to Villarreal for £20m just last Summer. He’s now rated at £50m, although I read he might have a release clause of £38m and that wants to leave after scoring 16 goals in 34 apps.

    He’s another one we should have been on top of after he scored 15 and assisted 7 in Championship last season.

    How can our club not spot talent before the player explodes on the scene? Aren’t we supposed to have the latest technology?!

    80m for White and Rams…. I’m so done with it.

  20. Habesha Gooner

    If you are comparing him Tielemans to elite talents like Camavinga, Dejong, and Bellingham, yes he does come short. Bit none of these players will cost less than 60 mil or below. And another factor is we don’t have CL football to offer. Gravenverch is moving to Bayern and Tchouameni is moving to Bayern. These players wouldn’t move to Arsenal at this moment in time anyway.

    We can’t turn down ready made, PL ready players that are coming in to their prime when we have Xhaka as a center piece to our team right now. I am all for upgrades. I wouldn’t turn down Mbappe if you offered him to me. I am being realistic for this summer. But we can’t get anyone better value than Tielemans at 30 mil. And that is the truth. May be if we get CL football next season, we can go for the truly elite by moving on the likes of Xhaka.

  21. raptora

    Habesha,
    My point is that we’ve been talking about these players for 1 year at least, some for even more.
    It’s impossible to win the fight for them this Summer. But maybe in the previous Summer? Why not? Did we try? Nope. We didn’t even try last Summer or the Summer before that. It’s what pisses me off. I know it’s impossible now.

  22. Un

    Freddie
    Wind your neck in. Can i not mention anything without the turning it to a snide slimy comment? Maybe if I pour salt on you…..

  23. Un

    Graham
    Yeah the cats keep digging up my beds too. And the foxed keep laying huge shites on my decking
    That aside, the garden is looking rather tropical

    Im on a high
    Just booked four holidays this month
    Been waaaaaaaay too long

  24. raptora

    We had the long stat guest posts by (forgot his name) and they included Tchou, Camavinga, Gravenberch and that was at least 12 months ago. Now, they are going to start their new seasons at Real Madrid and Bayern Munich. Anyone surprised?!

  25. Habesha Gooner

    **Tchouameni is moving to Real Madrid

    Klopp had to sign good players like Wijnaldum to elevate the level of his team before he moved to the CL football. Solid players are great signings. From that you can see your team grow and also add some star dust. There is going to be growth in the likes of Saka, ESR, Martinelli and Saliba (if we keep him). And others are also under 25 like Ramsdale, Odegaard, White,Gabriel, Tomiyasu, Tierney, Sambi and Eddie. If we can add Jesus and Tielemans to that, plus some necessary stardust like Gnabry and solid backups then we are good to go.

    If we make CL with kind of window next season, then we can cherry pick who we sign.

  26. Siddeeq

    Instead of using 30m for Tielmans in midfield, you might as well play Odegaard at CM, similar profile.

  27. Habesha Gooner

    Raptora
    To be honest I didn’t think spending 50 mil on white was necessary. That fund should have gone in to midfield.

    Other than that, Ramsdale, Odegaard, Tomi, Tavarez (though it didn’t work out), were necessary signings. Sambi was an investment under 20 mil.

    I understand we could have just not signed white and went for those CMs last summer. But they still wouldn’t have cost any less than 40 to 50 mil. Cost wise nothing has changed. And the teams they are moving to are Bayern and Reaĺ Madrid.

    These teams already have experienced starters that are good enough. They aren’t going to to throw these young players at the deep end. Camavinga was a rotation option this season for example. Had we signed him, he would need to be a starter. You can cherry pick top young players when you have a stable starting XI. And we don’t have that yet.

  28. raptora

    Adam Rae Voge was the name. He also had Bruno G in there obviously along with a select few interesting ones.

    Funny that we are now connected to another one of the players he “scouted” a year ago – Cheick Doucoure.

    Just an Arsenal fan who collected data of players that we should have focused on. Aren’t we supposed to have the latest technology?! And it’s what told us to keep Xhaka and sign Lokonga (who dropped behind Elneny in the pecking order)?!

  29. Globalgunner

    Throwing geniuses on the pitch and letting them sort it out was exactly the bedrock of Wengers early successes 97-2004. It was when he decided to start actually coaching that things started to fall apart. Problem is how do you get a set of players with skill toughness and iron-clad will that love the club nowasays.

  30. Bob N16

    Graham, I was just using an obviously successful manager who has clearly defined way of playing that puts demands on players to play within a team system.

    Not going with your flow Graham , you’ve nailed that comment, with your drip, drip of jaundiced negativity

  31. raptora

    Real bought Camavinga for £28m when transfermarkt had him valued at £50m.
    Tchou was valued at £27m last Summer.
    Gravenberch was valued at £29m.

    We bought Lokonga for £17-18m.

    Surely another £10m would have been money spent well when we are talking about players that are ALREADY an upgrade on what we have. Why would we sign a project Lokonga, who’s older than the rest btw, instead of fighting for elite talent that is already good enough to play for us, for just a tad bit money on top?!

    It’s us fucking up time and again. No surprises really.

    Solid is fine, but if we had bought say Tchou or Gravenberch, we’d have had on our hands players worth 2x-3x what we would have paid for them after 1 or 2 seasons here.

  32. Dissenter

    Whatever ‘potential’ Sambi has, he better start showing it quickly. Big clubs aren’t typically as patient as Arsenal.
    If you believe the tabloids, Cheick Doucoure who’s 22 years old is available for less money than we paid for Sambi.

  33. CG

    Siddeeq

    “””Not very athletic, chubby facial features”””

    Great minds think alike @CG””’

    In all his Google images – he looks like he taken in too many Belgian fries pre game.
    (He is remarkably similar to Hazard in physical appearance)

    If we were to sign Tielsman and Jesus next season on free transfers- I would congratulate Edu and Co, but why waste the summer budget on players that will be available for nothing next season?

    That is what Real Madrid have done with Ruidger
    AC Milan with Origi
    Spurs with Persic.

    We miss D. Dein- this lot are clueless

  34. raptora

    In all honesty to Pedro, he was talking about becoming Dortmund 2.0.
    Get talent that is highly valued for £25-35m and make them starters.

    Last year’s £150m could have seen us land 5 top class talents. Instead, we bought White, Ramsdale, Lokonga, Tavares, Tomi and Ode. Although in Tomi and Ode I can see the logic, not one of these players is with the potential to become a world beater.

    Saka, ESR, Marti and Saliba or above is the level of talent we should be targetting. Not those above.

  35. Bob N16

    ‘Great minds think alike’ or ‘ like-minded people think alike’. Judging Tielemans by his facial features- eugenics don’t cha just love it!

  36. Habesha Gooner

    Raptora
    Would Tchouameni have moved for a transfer market price? I doubt it. It is not this year that his price went up from 27 mil to 60 mil.

    Real got Camavinga for that because he was in his last year at Rennes and he was going to go on a free. And he wasn’t going to sign for us when he knew he was going to have the pick of the bunch of top clubs when he went on a free.

    The only one we could have gotten with our budget was Gravenberch last year. And he was just too green. But everyone knew he had potential.

    The only player that I am upset at missing out on is Bruno Guimaraes in January when he could have helped us qualify for the CL. That was a stupid fuckup by our team.

  37. Habesha Gooner

    “Although in Tomi and Ode I can see the logic, not one of these players is with the potential to become a world beater.”

    I think Ramsdale has the potential to become a worldbeater.

  38. Dissenter

    rap
    I’m going to suggest that there’s such a thing as a ‘mediocrity tax’ and another that I’ll tag as the ‘discount of excellence’
    Liverpool signing Fulham’s Fabio Carvalho for £7.7 million or city’s signing of Julián Álvarez for about £14 million. You can put Camavinga and Tchouaméni to Real in the same basket. The best clubs don’t have the do much because people will take pay it’s and climb walls to go play for them Top managers can have the same effect – Perisic reportedly took a pay cut to go play for Conte at Spuds.
    We’ve been paying this mediocrity surcharge for way too long. Had we qualified for the CL this summer, maybe we could have started operating with some swagger but that’s didn’t happen.
    It is what it is for now.

  39. China1

    Dissenter that’s absolutely accurate

    In the old days quality players were dreaming of playing for us. Wenger had such a well oiled machine this was a very easy sell and we could barter low prices because the players were desperate to join and we had a history of not overpaying.

    Now every time we come in for a player the club is holding out their hands saying they need a premium and players are hoping for great wages.

    And it works exactly the same for selling. We are so used to losing players for free and below market rate, even paying them to leave. Now we loan out players with an option to buy (at a very fair price) and the clubs still don’t want to pay. The torreira and bellerin conversations are honestly embarrassing (for the other clubs not just us), but it’s a symptom of that they think they can get away with it. If Spurs, Dortmund or Napoli etc loaned out a player with an option to buy it would be very well understood that you’ve not got the foggiest chance of negotiating that. But teams fancy their chances with us now

  40. raptora

    Dissenter,
    You say “swagger” and that’s exactly what I’m thinking of.
    That’s what’s missing in our transfers under Arteta.
    I’m not very optimistic it’s about to change in this transfer window.

  41. CG

    Dissenter

    ””””’We’ve been paying this mediocrity surcharge for way too long.””””””’

    Well said and put.

  42. Negative Nigel

    I have it on good authority that the reasons for Tielemans chubby chops was that he’d had a no of Dentist visits recently & quite a few jabs on the gums.which explains the chubby chops appearance.

  43. Negative Nigel

    So what do we know so far? It looks more & more likely that the targets are A) Jesus,B) Tielemans.C) Arron Hickey.As for any others it appears there’s a list of 10 or more if we’re splashing more cash than you’d expect.Will the above” move the needle” to CL.Fingers crossed.

  44. raptora

    Checked Adam Rae Voge to see what he’s been up to and he has another set of comparison stats.

    Gnabry – https://twitter.com/adamvoge/status/1522240119553630208
    Nkunku – https://twitter.com/adamvoge/status/1522240107234959362
    Jesus – https://twitter.com/adamvoge/status/1522240114063253504
    ESR – https://twitter.com/adamvoge/status/1522248085908463619
    Saka – https://twitter.com/adamvoge/status/1522248080711639041
    Marti – https://twitter.com/adamvoge/status/1522248075980550148

    Gnabry and Nkunku are far and beyond above anyone else in the comparison.

    Martinelli has really bad looking graphs.

    His top 5 among the “possible” winger/wide forward transfers are:

    1. Hamed Traore, 22 yo, Sassuolo/Ivory Coast
    2. Sofiane Diop, 22 yo, Monaco/France
    3. Samuel Chukwueze, 23 yo, Villarreal/Nigeria
    4. Houssem Aouar, 24 yo, Lyon/France
    5. Michael Olise, 20 yo, Crystal Palace/France/England

    And from the lower leagues:

    1. Luis Sinisterra, 23 yo, Feyenoord/Colombia
    2. Cody Gakpo, 23 yo, PSV/The Nederlands
    3. Antony, 22 yo, Ajax/Brazil

  45. Batistuta

    Raptora

    Truth is all we do is stockpile on average players, nothing special, little room for improvement and we spend quite a huge sum on them. The club from top to bottom is in a perpetual acceptance of average and barely existing living off past glory

  46. Batistuta

    Plus we have a manager who’s barely blooded any academy players in 2 years on the job. Our scouting is basically non-existent too

  47. Batistuta

    Rap

    And it’s sad really. We used to be linked with all the exciting youngsters but now we’re doing back to back summer business buying players from Bologna. Sad stuff

  48. Foxy

    There was a time when young players accros Europe apparently wanted to come to Arsenal to play under Wenger, helped by mor or less guaranteed CL football.

  49. Foxy

    If all the rumours about who Emery wanted to sign are true he may have been able to put together a decent team and definitely one that wouldn’t have finshed 8th two seasons in a row. He seems to have a good eye for players who will improve a team on a tight budget. What did we do spend £70m on Pepe who he did not wanr

  50. China1

    My mum got sick and tired of cleaning cat shit out of our lawn mower blades (it was the neighbours cat) so after a while she had a policy of going around our garden periodically and if she spotted a cat turd she would scoop it up with a little plastic spade and gleefully just fling it back over the fence from whence the cat had come. No checking what was in the line of fire etc, just scoop and fling.

    Worked wonders as it stopped happening. I guess the owner somehow got their car to shit somewhere else instead

  51. Graham62

    China1

    I keep a bucket of tennis balls near the back door.
    As soon as a cat comes a pooping, it’s bombs away!

  52. The Bard

    There is a simple reason we’re in the market for second raters. We are a second rate club with limited ambition and owners who don’t have a clue. We peaked during Wengers first 10 years and have been in steady decline ever since. If you’re in the top 4 you get to sign better players, it’s simple. Those of us who followed the club before Wenger are probably more relaxed about the current state of affairs. When another GG or Wenger comes along we will hit the heights but that’s unlikely woth a rookie manager. The job has to be learned. You can do it at a big club. No one ever has.

  53. Habesha Gooner

    Dissenter
    Yeah you got that right about the mediocrity tax. Unless we are a force again then others will always take the elite young talent available. We need to get back in to the Champions league. Because the shine of the Invincibles isn’t going to stay forever. It has already been diluted. It is going to come a time when youngs players will say they were a man city fan growing up. We need to go back to the big time to stop that happening.

    I am not saying Tielemans is elite and he can push us to a title challenge. But he can be part of 4 good CMs that can do that.

  54. Batistuta

    Habesha

    A ruthless and ambition club would have said goodbye to the current gaffer after trying and failing to get top 4 at 2 attempts but we are not a serious club and that stems from top to bottom.

    We have owners happy to just be a part of the conversation, there and thereabouts without really doing anything extra.

    Also have a fanbase whom every year seem more and more happy to also be nearly rans and also rans with the hopes of the odd cup win

  55. Graham62

    Batistuta

    Yeah but remember, another year that passes is not part of the process.
    Next year will be seen as the start for some fans.
    Arteta hasn’t had enough time to make his mark.
    When we get to 4 years at the helm there will still be those who will give him the benefit of the doubt..

  56. Batistuta

    Graham

    I stay well clear of those kind of discussions about stuff like ”process”. Serious clubs know work on short term as well as long term goals the latter left to the boardroom guys to work on but because we are not a serious entity we have left that in the hands of a rookie. Sad stuff really

  57. G

    ‘’ Siddeq“””Tielmans is another Not bad but Not great/exceptional type player””””Well said.Hardly set the world alight for Leicester this season‘’

    It’s one step at a time for us.. u think the position we are in we are going to b buying exceptional players

  58. Habesha Gooner

    Bati
    I don’t think Arteta has been a full on failure. Our squad wasn’t fit for purpose. And now it is okay. For that he deserves some credit. But in regards to delivering on our targets, he hasn’t done it yet. We aren’t as ruthless as Chelsea have been in the past. And we don’t have a genuine top coach that can guarantee success in 3, 4 years like Klopp or Guardiola either.

    Next season is his last chance saloon though. Either he delivers a minimum of CL football or he goes. Even Pedro can’t debate that point. There is no process anymore if he doesn’t get CL football next season. We can’t be managed by someone that can’t deliver a minimum of CL football after spending a ridiculous amount of money.

    I wouldn’t fire him now because there aren’t a lot of top managers around.

  59. WengerEagle

    Habesha

    If Tielemans as you say is a top 4 player but not a title challenging one, what is the point of signing him? Considering the ‘plan’ is to compete for the title in 2023-24.

    You think he’d come here and accept being a bench/squad player down the line? No chance.

  60. Batistuta

    Habesha

    Wish i shared your hope that the manager will be going anywhere if he doesn’t make top4 next season. We are just not ruthless enough or serious about being a top club

  61. Nigel Tufnel

    Pierre be careful with Vieira Lynn kroenkeohobe…

    That warning of his about being “wise to not underestimate him” reads like a Bond villain.
    Nice that he fancies himself that way.

  62. WengerEagle

    If people want to sign Tielmans because they think he will elevate the CM and have ours competitive with the other top 4 teams, fair enough but I disagree.

    If they want to sign him purely because we may be able to get him on the relatively cheap (£25m) and that he will have resale value down the line (£30-35m) then it is for the wrong reasons. It is a false economy anyway because you are taking £25m of the £40m odd that would be needed to sign a CM a level above Tielemans.

  63. The Real Vieira Lynn

    Pierre

    “Some people may be smart but lack common sense and are full of their own self importance, i would say you come into that category. Something is not quite right in your personality to be offended by such an innocuous remark”

    Hey Mr. Pot, it’s Mr. Kettle, how goes it you hypocritical fuc*? oh yea, I’m the sensitive one…how rich coming from the little bi*ch who, following your terribly sad jaunt down irony lane, pulled some school girl screenshot maneuver with my lengthy post…for the love of God, buy a fuc*ing mirror for your GD glass house already…have a good day on the links you pretentious tw**.

  64. raptora

    WE,
    That’s exactly what I’m saying.

    We made a compromise with Odegaard because he’s a value transfer but can’t say I see him as a starting CAM in a title challenging team.

    We’re about to make more compromises with Tielemans who could also be a somewhat value transfer but I can’t see him as a starting midfielder in a title challenging team.

    Gabriel Jesus smells of more compromises to be honest, although he is more of what we need than the previous two I mentioned.

    Then what happens?! We’re pissing money up the wall when we’re giving players away, paying them to leave, adding laughable optional or mandatory purchase fees, we’re buying average players like Lokonga (behind Elneny) and Tavares AND dropping massive fees for our defence that conceded more goals than the season before!!!!

    So we buy White for 50m – negating the value option of playing Saliba – to go for value transfers in midfield and attack.

    What?!

  65. Tom

    “Next season is his last chance saloon though. Either he delivers a minimum of CL football or he goes. Even Pedro can’t debate that point.”

    HG, Pedro absolutely can and will debate that point if , say, Arteta repeats top five and has a decent cup run.

    But more importantly so will the Kroenkes.
    If top four was the absolute make or brake , they wouldn’t have given him a three year extension.

  66. TR7

    Tielmans is better than Xhaka, he has more to his attacking game than Xhaka although defensively both are average. If Tielmans’ arrival leads to Xhaka demoted to bench I am all for it.

  67. WengerEagle

    Rap

    See I think the difference is with Jesus and Tielemans that on the market right now there isn’t a better gettable ST for us right now than Jesus whereas there are a lot of midfielders better/more suited to our needs than Tielemans.

    When the main arguments in his favour are that he is cheap and PL experienced, it ain’t a ringing endorsement.

    And Jesus I believe is good enough to lead the line in a title conpeting team. He plays the majority of the time out wide for City hence his low goals output.

    Look at his numbers in his first 1.5 years at the club before Pep started moving him around.

  68. WengerEagle

    Tielemans clearly better than Xhaka, wouldn’t be hard now that. Most midtable CMs would be an upgrade.

    I think that Bissouma is a better player than Tielemans and more importantly is more suited to our needs as Odegaard/ESR need defensive protection.

  69. raptora

    The annoying part is that Arsenal isn’t a hard sell at all if we’re doing the Project Youth thingie.

    We could have called Tchou (or Gravenberch) and told him that he’s going to be a core player in a team of many young super talented players – Saka, Martinelli, Smith Rowe, Saliba, possibly Odegaard, with several top class older players like Partey and Aubameyang. We’ll give him 35 EPL games plus and he’ll be a part of a team that whole of Europe will start paying attention to. In addition to a wonderful salary, great fans, huge club and the lure of the Premier League.

    Even Arteta is not that hard of a sell as he’s supposedly a prodigy manager, product of La Masia and the apprentice of Pep.

    They can say that they are trying to restore the Wenger legacy giving chance to young players to develop together and really achieve something big together.

    We have a real case for us for ANY young player in the world to join us.

    What do we do? White, Ramsdale, Tielemans………………………………..

  70. raptora

    Yup, we both liked Anguissa even before we knew the laughable money that Fulham was asking for. He played in every single Serie A game, that he was available, in a Napoli team that finished 3rd in the Calcio. That was a bargain deal and a half cause he was a substantial upgrade on Xhaka for a very similar fee of the one we were about to receive from Roma. Another missed opportunity ofc. Better get a player that ended up behind Elneny.

  71. WengerEagle

    Zverev breaks and looks set to win set 2.

    Would still be stunned were Rafa to lose. 36th birthday today though and has that chronic foot issue so he may be spent physically especially after the QF marathon.

  72. WengerEagle

    Rap

    That is what is frustating. We knew Anguissa would go on the cheap and he had an excellent season for relegated Fulham.

    Him and Bissouma are both pretty much as good but Anguissa cost €15m as they were relegated and over a barrel whereas Brighton who know how to squeeze extra juice out of us will probably want €45-50m for Bissouma.

  73. WengerEagle

    Zverev double-faults on break point for Rafa, lol.

    In all of sports I think that James Harden is the only bigger choker I have seen, maybe Higuain too.

  74. TR7

    Nadal not only physically struggling but also making wrong decisions quite frequently. Luckily Zverev is also not playing well.

  75. WengerEagle

    TR7

    At his age I think that Nadal nearly picks his moments now. Not that he takes sets off but his level in Set 1 vs Djoker and set 3 were phenomenal whereas set 2 was bad once he got broken.

  76. Graham62

    Zverev’s second serve let’s him down again.
    Shouldn’t be serving so many doubles with his frame.

  77. TR7

    WE

    Yeah he knows he will beat Zverev anyway, so probably conserving some energy so that he can raise his game up later. Zverev anyway not making his life much difficult.

  78. WengerEagle

    Ion Ozil has been told he is unwanted at Fenerbahce and will not play under Jorge Jesus.

    He is 3 years younger than Luka Modric and cannot even hack it in a farmer league like Turkey anymore.

  79. Habesha Gooner

    Wenger eagle
    I didn’t say Tielemans wasn’t good enough for a title challenge. I said he could be one of four for a title challenge. Did you think Wijnaldum was good enough for a title challenge?

    What we need is 4 quality CMs we can rotate through out the season in different competitions. City have Gundogan, Debruyne, B.Silva, Foden, Rodri, Fernandinho (although he has gotten old) and previously David Silva to play in a 3 man midfield.

    We need quality.

  80. Globalgunner

    Ozil is simply a lazy fker. All the talent, but just cant be arsed to do anything except collect his paycheck. He should try the US league. He might find someone stupid enough to give him a 2 year deal. Ozil retired mentally 10 years ago

  81. WengerEagle

    Habesha

    I think that Wijnaldum was better yes. If it didn’t stop us signing a better CM in addition I could see it but I think with us renewing Elneny and showing no sign of giving up on Xhaka that it would be Tielemans alone.

  82. raptora

    I’d bring Wijnaldum to Arsenal right now if I could. Superb player that can do everything on the pitch. Proper leader, a captain, technical, smart, leaves everything on the pitch.

  83. Havyn

    Pedro
    You can’t compare Jesus and Laca. Laca scored only 2 goals in open play and played more games than Jesus

    Liverpool will tank because their paying mean wages to their very top stars Mane and Salah. Mane takes 100k a week? Less than the Ox and Thiago. 0ool is that mean. These two players produce fir them week in week out.

  84. Negative Nigel

    So that’s it then.Jesus,Tielemans, & Hickey the main “ Big buys”.Shame.Would have liked to have seen Bissouma & Abraham added to that list.Then we’d be a damn site more competitive for CL target .

  85. WengerEagle

    Think it is in the bag for Rafa now.

    Don’t see either Ruud or Cilic providing much resistance in the Final. Zverev was far more dangerous than either.

  86. Havyn

    We better get rid of Edu who is limited and see only Brazilian players.

    Edu also lacks negotiating skills as he gives away our players and offer expensive contracts to incoming players.

  87. TR7

    WE

    Cilic can be extremely dangerous on his day. Error prone but if he is in the zone he can hurt any player. Ideally would like Rudd to advance so that it’s easier for Rafa in the final.

  88. Habesha Gooner

    WengerEagle
    The only problem I have with the Tielemans is he is not strong enough defensively as those CMs you mentioned, Anguissa and Bissouma. He isnt shit defensively either. If you are considering their attacking and passing aspects though, Tielemans shits on both of them. For a team lacking in creativity and goals, he suits us considering his age, quality and price tag. And he is still 25. He has ways to go.

    Which player aside from Savic is gettable and is better than Tielemans, name some names.

    I think people are underrating Tielemans because he is gettable.

    These are the CMs that are under 25 that are better than him IMO. Foden, Pedri, Camavinga, Bellingham and Nico Barella.

    Gravenberch and Gavi are still green and I don’t think they are better yet. I would rank Guimaraes, Fabian Ruiz, Kessie as the same level as Tielemans.

    The rest of the players like Valverde, Rice, Bissouma, Rodri, Tchouameni, Ndidi, Locatelli are all defensive players.

    Notice in all of this few of these players are gettable for arsenal.

    If we are talking advanced attacking CMs, Tielemans is top 10 for under 25 players.

  89. Havyn

    Don’t see why we’re interested in Tielemans. He offers no defensive cover and is as slow as Xhaka. Both Tielemans and Neves are not athletic and will be exposed in counter attacks.

    Our target next season should be Top 4 and a local cup.

  90. Siddeeq

    Leicester are living on past glory, the only quality players they had are Ngolo, Mahrez and vardy, in that order.

  91. Robert Pires

    Tielemans is much faster than Xhaka, havyn.
    Tielemans is of average speed while Xhaka is the slowest starting midfielder in the top 5 leagues.
    Both are average defensively while Tielemans is better going forward.
    Sum total – Tielemans is about 15 – 20 % better than Xhaka.

    Moves the “needle”? Not by much, but clearly yes.
    And CG’s stupid ideas of waiting for players like him to be on a free?
    When they’re on a free they have a much bigger choice of clubs plus the salary demands are greater and disturb the average in the club, thereby increasing demands of other players.

  92. The Real Vieira Lynn

    G62

    will do…I just despise that passive aggressive nonsense, so I simply replied in kind without mincing words…point taken though…Cheers

  93. The Real Vieira Lynn

    I’m certainly not opposed to the idea of signing Tielemans so long as it means that Xhaka is being shipped elsewhere….I just find it difficult to believe that MA would be willing to get rid of his tactical safety net…on a side note, I think some people have forgotten that Bissouma originally played further up the pitch and was more recently converted into a deeper-lying player…legal issues aside, I still think he would be better suited to our current situation, as it would enable Partey to take up more advanced positions, with the necessary cover…not to mention, if we wanted to be more aggressive Bissouma does have something to offer going forward

  94. Olumide

    raptora
    We made a compromise with Odegaard because he’s a value transfer but can’t say I see him as a starting CAM in a title challenging team.
    —–
    There’s no way Odegaard is starting for a title-challenging team as a CAM. If he was that good, Madrid will not sell him to us. And definitely not at 30 million.

    Honestly, I don’t get the hype with Odegaard. We’re shit at attacking and people are always praising Odegaard. For what?

    Some even go as far as comparing him to Cesc Fabregas. It’s embarrassing.

    This season, Odegaard created just 6 big chances. The whole premier league season. For context, Kulusevski and Bentancur who started playing in February also created 6 big chances.

    On that list, Odegaard is number 40. Fabregas at 16 was better than that. When your main CAM creates 6 big chances throughout a season, how can you score goals?

  95. raptora

    Saliba, Guen, Nkunku, Moussa Diaby part of the France NT’s sub bench.
    In an alternate universe they’re all playing for us + Tchouameni who started the game.

  96. Olumide

    Big chances created by Arsenal players in the past premier league season.

    Saka – 8
    Odegaard – 6
    Martinelli – 5
    Lacazette – 4
    ESR – 3
    Soares – 2
    Nketiah – 2
    Xhaka – 2
    Gabriel -1
    Pepe – 1
    Tomiyasu – 1
    Lokonga – 1
    Tavares – 1
    Ben White – 1
    Others – 0

  97. Olumide

    In comparison
    Big chances created
    Liverpool
    TAA – 18
    Salah – 18
    Mane – 9
    Chelsea
    Mount – 10
    Reece James – 9
    Ziyech – 9
    Tottenham
    Harry Kane – 19
    Lucas Moura – 11
    Son – 10

  98. The Real Vieira Lynn

    Plumide

    Agree wholeheartedly with your Ode assessment, as he’s little more than a poor man’s Ozil, minus the fact that he puts in an effort when it comes to the press and in the defensive zone….unfortunately he’s not that effective at either of the above aspects of the game…I still believe he’s a luxury-type player who can’t be an everyday starter in the PL, at least not for a team who hopes to compete for things…one just needs to ask themselves what other team of consequence would ever play both Xhaka and Ode in the same midfield, let alone one of them…so long as MA continues to force these two players into his starting 11, the results will continue to be mixed and our League position will reflect that

  99. Robert Pires

    BTW, has a Frenchman shagged Arteta’s missus?

    It seems that he really does not like French players despite the vast pool of talent, and does not even want non-French players from French speaking countries LOL

  100. Olumide

    raptora
    Even Arteta is not that hard of a sell as he’s supposedly a prodigy manager, product of La Masia and the apprentice of Pep.
    —-
    Tell that to Saliba and Guendouzi, two young players in the French squad. Word spread around. I’ll be surprised if we get any good young player from France.

  101. raptora

    I’m not pro Tielemans but a 33 yo Axel Witsel and a 30 yo in 2 months Hans Vanaken, start for Belgium against the Netherlands ahead of 25 yo Tielemans who is on the bench.

    Martinez is a garbage coach/manager.

  102. Olumide

    TRVL
    I agree with you. It’s just funny how Arsenal fans hype our players so much and we don’t see the results on the pitch.