Well good morning my dearest, dearest of chums.
What do I want to talk about today?
Last season’s table since Christmas. I wrote about it a lot because the first 38% of the season was dreadful, but the second 62% of the season was really, really decent. I wrote this after we beat Brighton.
The final 24 games of the season also post a cheery outlook. 2nd most points. 2nd best defensive record. 3rd most goals.
If you are looking for signs of life and you can’t feel a heartbeat in ‘6 points off 4th place, with the 2nd best form over the final 24 games after we made pointed changes at Christmas’, I honestly can’t help you.
If you thought the first 14 games were relevant enough to merit sacking Arteta, I can’t listen to you tell me the 24 games after count as a mathematical sleight of hand. Again, just to remind you, I understand that the league is 38 games, but we’re searching for light, I’m not trying to convince you we actually won a trophy.
This landed quite the reaction from certain quarters:
ANON 1:
I was thinking more about sacking Arteta pre Christmas after we went through a horrific barren run to get in a clearly better manager. Again I don’t really buy into the whole upward trend post Christmas nonsense cause there was still inconsistent performances embarrassing defeats and struggles along the way.
I will say what actually might save the god awful manager might be the fact that while we fail to make an actual smart decision on him we’ve missed out on Nagelsmann, Rose, Marsch and possibly Galtier. Might be left with a scenario where Fonseca, Allegri or I dunno Rangnick might be the only ones left.
Should have sacked him pre Christmas during that period and made a move for Marco Rose before he committed to Dortmund.
Ouch.
There were people who thought Arteta hadn’t changed anything in 24 games and he’d be gone by the following Christmas.
ANON 2:
Arteta needed to go, but instead of taking the hard decisions now, so that the new manager could have the summer to peopare the squad, we’ve decided to drag our feet and keep him until December next year so not only content with sabotaging this season, we want to sabotage next season by keeping Arteta on.
Why does Arteta deserved to be kept on?
The silence is deafening.
There were the out and out doomers:
ANON 3:
However next season when the situation will stabilise (no COVID, people in stadium, …), I do expect us to be back in mid table mediocrity between 6th and 10th. That’s exactly where the underlying stats and performance point.
ManCity, ManUtd, Chelsea, Liverpool will be back to proper level of performance.
Leicester also played in Europe this season, so I see no reason why next season should provoke a dip in performance and result. If they recruit smartly like it look they are doing in getting B Soumaré.
WestHam may be impaired by having mid European competition.
Spurs are going to treat that 3rd tier European Cup as an hindrance and plays kids and fringe players.So of the club above us, I can see us overtaking WestHam or Spurs. However from the clubs that finished below is, I do expect Everton to have a better season.
If Leeds recruits well, they could become a force.
AstonVilla have in their academy a player ready to explode and lessen the impact of Grealish injury. Basically with Grealish Aston Villa is a top half club without they are hovering above relegation.
Where are we 11 months later after those great non-data-driven predictions?
Sitting in 4th with the run in our hands.
So why do I bring this up? Because football requires a bit of vision in 2022.
10 years ago, you could hire Antonio Conte, spend £50m, and put on a title charge. 2022, you just can’t do that. Why? Because you need more than money, you need to be smart.
The two best teams in the world, City (richest) and Liverpool, both have a long-term vision, both have a strategy, and both are ruthless about delivering on their philosophy.
The biggest mess heads in world football?
PSG: No footballing vision, no recruitment plan outside STAR PLAYER NOW, and no control over club culture. The teenagers loved their summer signings, but most saw what was coming, a disaster of a season again.
Manchester United: Again, the strategy is BIG NAMES. They nearly had a bit of a vision under OGS who wanted to sign young exciting players that cared about the club… but then they signed Ronaldo, a 37-year-old past his prime, and it crashed everything. None of their players make sense, they’re just expensive. The idea that Ten Hag is going to come and fix that squad in one window, again, is extremely fanciful. Ralf Rangnick is one of the best squad builders in the game, he says they need 10 players and 6 years to get to the Liverpool standard. Why would he be wrong? Some fans don’t believe him, but really, why should you believe the truth of someone that has never worked in football, let alone United? It took Liverpool 5 years to get to their standard, if Rangnick is 50% wrong, United are still 3 years away.
Barcelona: This is a club that didn’t look after the basics when it had the greatest player of all time. Now he’s gone, the curtain has been drawn, and no one knows what they are doing. They brought back an exlegend with the hope he could revive club fortunes like Pep did. His player strategy looks like some of the business Arteta did at the start of his career. Auba is not reviving Barcelona, nor is Lewandowski. Throwing money at short-term ideas rarely works for the short term, but even if it does, you pay in the end, because you have to replace aging players.
So back to my point, Arsenal had to accept that getting back to the top was a process, and it was going to take time. That’s brave, because fans online don’t care for patience, and clubs have traditionally behaved like fans. This video doing the rounds perfectly captures the modern fan and the delusion of who we are.
Daniel Levy at Spurs had implemented an elite plan of his own. He had a young dynamic coach, a group of really talented players, and a style of football that was progressing. It took Poch about 5 years to get Spurs into the Champions League final. They lost, but it was an incredible achievement. Then what happened? Levy shit the bed. He decided that the failings were on the manager, not part of the process in building a sustainable football club. He jumped on Jose because he believed in the idea of short-term winnertivity. That failed, he went for Nuno because Mendes said so. That failed, so he doubled down on Antonio Conte, despite the biggest chequebook manager in football being a HUGE mismatch for a club that is incredibly frugal / now skint.
Strategy takes discipline. There are always quick hit temptations. The best resist them.
Back to that half-season table and why it is still important.
The second part of the season we:
- Shipped out the toxic players that were trying to down Arteta
- Arteta finally discovered the benefits of young players over seasoned pros that had done it all
- Arteta showed that he could progress players through good coaching
A large chunk of the fanbase thought he should be fired because of the first 14 games, but refused to acknowledge the 24 after were absolutely immense from a points collection total. We had the 3rd best defence, scored the second-most goals, and had the 2nd most points.
Mad that anyone thought that sort of run should have still ended in the sack.
There was a notion that this sort of sample was dishonest and NOT predictive. If I could be bothered, I’d pull some of the tweets under the posts. But so many smart people weren’t having it.
Well, a year on, we are in 4th place with 5 games to go. That table WAS predictive of better times.
We might not break the top 4 this season, but we are very close considering the issues we’ve had.
This summer might require a bit of vision again if we don’t get top 4, because no doubt, there will be people calling for the sacking of Arteta if we miss out.
Things to remember:
We have two players in the top 5 for open-play chance creation this season: Saka (20) & Odegaard (23)
We have not had a proper striker all season (7 goals, Auba)
We are joint bottom in the top 7 for goals scored.
The vision some need is that if you put the right striker in our system, we are likely 10 points better off NOW, which makes us a top 4 team, possibly challenging Chelsea for 3rd.
Some more vision:
Thomas Partey is a big weakness in our squad. He’s too good. When he gets injured, it takes us time to figure out how to absorb him. If we had a competitor for his position next season, we’d be able to rotate him more often, and we’d be able to absorb the inevitable injuries.
The path forward for Arsenal is extremely clear:
- 1 elite young striker
- 1 elite young midfielder
Just two additional players, in this system, and we are so much better.
Now, there will be other bits of business we’ll do that might look a little cuter and be more with a view to the future. I suspect our secondary striker will be less expensive, so we might take a risk on someone with high potential. We might add a free transfer like Sanches, who had injury potential but could be good for 25 games a season.
Then think of who is coming back to the team: William Saliba will fight it out with White & Gabriel.
We’re being linked with all the right names. I don’t have the same belief others do in Gabriel Jesus. I don’t think his primary objective is Arsenal, he’s not a ‘main man’ profile, and I don’t think he’d leave City to be back-up. Regardless, he’ll cost ‘main man’ money… but I totally accept he is a level above anything we have right now. Victor Oshimen is being linked, he’s raw, but he has all the ingredients you look for in a striker in the Premier League, and he scores goals. Arsenal will be linked with a lot of strikers, that’s what the recruitment team want, so don’t fall in love with any rumours yet… just know that the club waited 6 months to make a consequential signing. Arteta wants to compete for titles, he’s going to derisk that signing as much as he can.
David Ornstein is linking us with Neves and Tielemans, I told you here we’d be interested in them, they are top, top players that make us much better.
So overall, the story of this post? Last summer, the data pointed to better times. This summer, it’s even clearer, the leap of faith is more straightforward: Do you believe an actual striker with a chance creation team behind him will score more than 7 goals? Do you believe elite competition for Thomas Partey will lesson the impact of injuries? If you ticked yes to both, then you agree that this club is going places and you should, as Josh Kroenke said, ‘be excited.’
Right, that’s me done, check out our podcast, maybe drop it a 5* rating?
The 5 year process is all bollocks as far as I’m concerned.
Basically, as soon as pep and klopp go on their merry ways the league will become attainable .
There will be no talk of a 5 year process, city and liverpool will become what United and Arsenal became when Ferguson and wenger left…lost.
Top 4 this season and then be patient and wait for klopp and pep to leave as we will never reach that level, and will just have to wait until liverpool and city return to the pack.
Leeds
“Imagine if we had a striker like that this season what a difference he would have make”
We do have a striker , but Arteta refused to start him.
7 goals in the last 2 games with a mobile striker against top opposition
Coincidence ?
Tielemans is a bit soft looking in my opinion. I would settle for Camavinga if available .. or promote
Jack Henry Francis from the academy, he has ingredient.. and looks strong . What a game last
night, every player on the pitch is tremendous
In case you have not seen this hilarious tweet, Sancho and Tellers trying to mark Nketia…. maybe they mistake him for Laca..😎
https://twitter.com/i/status/1519001434443894785
Zach, did you only read that one line?!?!
You do come across as quite the dimwit
This season Arteta has shown me some glimmers of hope. If you look at our run until our 3 losses (4out of 5) on the trot in isolation it’s horrible. But to bounce back and beat the big boys, and at the same time keep us ahead in the race for the top 4, that’s what we want from the manager at this stage. I’m still standing by my call, despite liking the players bought last summer, that we should have bolstered the midfield not the backline. But that is only personal opinion. If Arteta gets 4th that is a… Read more »
I’m intrigued to see what type of midfield player we sign in the summer. Bissouma has been my first choice for the last 2 years but i suppose it depends on whether Arteta plays 4-2-3-1 or -4-3-3 or 4-1-4-1 For me , the 4-2-3-1 has been Arteta’s more successful system , 2 holding midfielders give the team stability and allows the offensive 4 to take more risks with the ball without the fear of being caught on the counter.. Arteta tried playing xhaka higher up , probably in a 4-1-4-1 which was successful for a small period of time but… Read more »
SAGG
Raul was the bad penny. The slime ball manipulated everything in his favour. Emery was failing because he was operating according to Raul’s rules.
Arteta arrived and immediately said ‘yes sir’ to Raul – being a young manager in his first job he probably wanted to please his immediate boss – hence the arrival of Willian etc etc.
With Raul gone Arteta has changed. He still has issues but with Edu’s help the future outlook has improved.
Pierre
I think we’ll be in the market for a midfielder who will help us dominate possession. An upgrade on Elneny. I really like Boubacar Kamara who is out of contract. He ticks a lot of boxes. Can also play centre back.
I have no idea about the attacking positions. Depends where he sees Martinelli and Smith-Rowe long term. I personally prefer Smith-Rowe to Martinelli on the left. I’m not a big Martinelli fan.
I do like the Gabriel Jesus links.
I still don’t see why people on here are discussing Emery . He has nothing to do with our club any more.
Johnnygunner. Precisely. Its ridiculous to keep going about Emery. It’s yesterday’s news. Pierre I have to disagree about Eddie. He isnt top class in my opinion. You need a whole lot more to your game these days tp be top draw.
Johnny, Might remind that to Pedro who brings Emery up every chance he gets to shit on him time and again. I guess Pedro knows better than Klopp who was full of compliments. It’s one thing to say that a manager didn’t work or wasn’t a good fit for our club, it’s a totally different thing to call him a bum. Emery won vs Klopp’s Liverpool in the Europa League final in 2016, last year he beat Arsenal and Manure on his way to a 4th record EL. This year he’s pulled the upsets of the tourney by knocking out… Read more »
Jonnygunner – people still discuss Wenger, Graham, Howe, Neill and even Herbert Chapman.
AFC has a history (some good some bad). Emery is part of that History. Rioch is still discussed and he was manager for an even shorter period.
The Bard
The project is a reality, Pedro is very accurate about that, we discrept in some points but overall it is the same.
Arteta is going to be here next season with full support from Josh, and if he gets Top4 now a massive contract will be on the table for him, with an even bigger funds package.
The Bard “. Pierre I have to disagree about Eddie. He isnt top class in my opinion. You need a whole lot more to your game these days tp be top draw.” You will never find a comment where i said Eddie is either top drawer or top class. What i have said from his showing in pre season is that he is ready to play for this present team and i think his last coiple of performances against top sides has proven that. Whether he will become top drawer, top class or whatever remains to be seen. We certainly… Read more »
Pierre: “Whether he (Eddie) will become top drawer, top class or whatever remains to be seen.
We certainly won’t find out if he is sitting on the bench all season.”
Similar to what we wanted when Saliba played his first game of season 2019/20 in January for another team. I don’t rate Eddie to that degree at all but he did look good in the preseason games. Like a different player to the one before. Yet, he was hardly given any chances.
Pierre
Your view that Arsenal will never reach the elite while Pep and Klopp are around merely reflects your idolatry of Wenger. And because Ozil was bought (when we didn’t need him) by Wenger, that makes him another of your idols.
“Your view that Arsenal will never reach the elite while Pep and Klopp are around merely reflects your idolatry of Wenger.”
Is he wrong though?! Does anyone actually see us winning the EPL title with Pep and Klopp in the EPL at the top of their game, managing two fully developed clubs to support them? I don’t.
Why should we not discuss emery? He was the manager before arteta. We bring up Wenger so why not a manager that took us to a EL final?
Emery is a very good manager. Just not one who was suited to arsenal – especially at the time we had him. Replacing wenger was going to be a monumental ask for anyone. The entire club was built in his image over 23 years. Who can easily replace that in 18 months? In any case he was the wrong fit for us in retrospect. He is however extremely good at getting middling teams to over achieve in Spain. That is beyond any shadow of a doubt and he deserves a whole bunch of credit for that. The truth is he’s… Read more »
Lest we forget it was Klopp’ liverpool that Sevilla beat in the 2016 EL final
Look at what they’ve done in the Cl this year. The guys European resume is genuinely great
P 3 W 0 D 0 L 3 For 0 Against 9 Pts 0
Your view that Arsenal will never reach the elite while Pep and Klopp are around merely reflects your idolatry of Wenger.
One idolater to another
Pierre we need top draw not ok. Sagg I don’t disagree that the long term project is being touted as the way forward. It’s a good one because it relieves the current regime of any pressure to perform now and any dips or collapses can be seen as part of the learning curve. As I’ve said I just am not convinced of long term projects in football.
Disingenuous comments re other managers. Yes occasionally other managers get mentioned but Emery gets more comments than even Wenger.
The pretty cool thing about Emery is the longevity he’s had at doing the same kind of thing
Winning those 3 ELs in a row was impressive enough, but after struggling at PSG and then losing a final at arsenal and getting sacked a few months later he could’ve easily vanished into nothingness.
But he goes to a smaller club, wins the EL again and now he’s doing things in the CL
You simply have to give credit where it’s due
“‘“official card caring member of the Emery fan club” ”so why is it suddenly a problem to argue here? are you the only one allowed to make a point or disagree? when his name comes up and arsenal supporters defend him it’s mk ultra level mindfuckery. he had a good run, he got found out, he lost control, he sank us , end of story” Unlike you to ever miss the point, is it Zach. No one says arguing/debating in itself is a problem. Failing to acknowledge basic facts you can’t refute in a debate you initiate, and going straight… Read more »
“It took Liverpool 5 years to get to their standard”
No, it didn’t.
Jurgen Klopp was appointed in October 2015 and they returned to being a Champions League club by the end of 2016/17. That was Klopp’s second season. They started having deep runs in the Champions League by Jan 2018, which was in Klopp’s third season. Liverpool were challenging for the title from the first match-day in 2018/19. By his third anniversary in October 2018, they were in second place.
Is October 2015 to October 2018, 5 years?
The same fans saying Wenger left a mess are the ones fighting off every criticism of Arteta. I believe it’s actually very dumb of you to criticize the best ever manager we’ve had in the clubs history and in the same vein big up an absolute novice who’s biggest achievement would be a fourth placed finish (asides the FA cup win of course). Heck, I don’t even hear Manchester United fans speak bad of SAF the way some Arsenal fans slag of Wenger. It’s not like Wenger left us with a massive stadium debt or he relegated the club, the… Read more »
People seem to forget what it was actually like to watch Emery’s Arsenal just because he’s now doing well elsewhere. Kinda similar to how some people are forgetting Aruba’s last 18 months with us. I agree that very few people could have succeeded at Arsenal back when Emery joined. He was dealt a bad hand. But there were things in his control. The fact that our defence was all over the place is down to him. Can’t blame Raul for that. We never had a football identity or philosophy during his time. We were always going over the top adapting… Read more »
IAT-Robbie, but the reason it took Klopp 5 years is in the title of Pedro’s post.
I’d bet my house against Pedro’s stale bag of Doritos that if Arteta managed to win the CL in his third full season and make 97 points in the PL he’d be calling it elite level success, job done.
And I for one wouldn’t argue against it.
“And yeah, he didn’t get a say on transfers. And thank God for that. He was getting all moist about bringing in Ever Banega. Imagine that being the outer limit of your imagination.”
He also wanted Zaha instead of Pepe.
Benega would’ve come cheap and if you gave him a short term contract on slightly better than his Sevilla wages then it could’ve worked out.
Zaha and Benega for 87m(Zaha 80m, Benega 7m) , or Pepe for 75m?
There are heroes – and there are idols. Heroes often have feet of clay – idols don’t. In pro football there is an endless list of managers who performed great feats – but almost impossible to find one whose career was unflawed at the end. Herbert Chapman, Bill Shankley….Wenger? A hero, yes. An idol? No.
Do I think Arteta can win major trophies with Pep and Klopp still around? Yes, I do. Inc the PL title.
“going straight into the trolling mode to save face is, and Pedro is a fucking world champion at this” 😅 Tom, That’s textbook Pedro. You end up talking about something that has absolutely nothing to do with what triggered the initial “debate”. Yesterday’s topic was about manager rebuilds, yet it “somehow” ended up as a rant about Odegaard and Saka’s chance creation. Says it all really. “if Arteta managed to win the CL in his third full season and make 97 points in the PL he’d be calling it elite level success, job done. And I for one wouldn’t argue… Read more »
What are the chances Ten Hag says in his first official Man U presser if we don’t win the PL in the next four years then I will have failed?
I’d say zero.
That’s why Klopp deserves all the credit for saying exactly that in his first Pool presser.
No ifs, no buts, no dodging the question…….that’s ballsy as hell.
Tom, I’m not convinced Zaha would have been a success. He certainly wasn’t at United. He seems like a player that needs to be the main man in a small club but struggles to fit into a system that’s about more than counter attacking. Either way, my comment wasn’t intended as a defence of Dirty Raul. Emery has been good at constructing teams out of journeymen and getting good performances out of them. But he’s never shown that he can build a team based on a clear football philosophy. Had he been in charge of transfers, we might have been… Read more »
LS, Don’t have enough time to argue against every single point that you made. But you say that our defence was all over the place and how it was in his control. You mean like it was in Arteta’s control and he blew £200m there? Mari, Soares, Gabriel, Partey, Runarsson, Lokonga, Tavares, White, Ramsdale Tomiyasu. What a surprise we’re better defensively than before. After Emery’s first season in our club, they bought him Saliba for 27m who wasn’t even going to play for Arsenal that year. Yeah, thank god we got Pepe instead of Zaha. Thank god we didn’t sell… Read more »
Pedro: Tom is a football fan first, Arsenal fan second
Completely explains why he puts forward a counter argument to anything remotely positive about Arsenal.
And nothing wrong in that btw
Klopp has an elite mentality and confidence in what he’s doing. Shoot for the stars and you might reach the moon.
We have too many middle management types at the club whose operating principle is “I’ll sandbag my goals so that I can hit them easily and look like a hero”.
Tom just seems to be hyper-allergic to hyperbolic drivel and spin about certain things related to Arsenal.
Nothing wrong with being. footie fan before being an Arsenal fan, maybe it’s easier to see things more clearly that way.
That’s what Wenger did to many of us.
The most hilarious thing about debating Wenger or Emery era on here is that if you ever give any factual extenuating circumstances for their failures, you also must state unequivocally that you wanted them gone and the earlier the better too. So in Wenger’s case preferably right after 2004, and in Emery’s…………probably shortly after he was born.
Raptora,
I’m not defending Arteta. My opinion since the start of the season has been that he needs to get 4th, considering the investment he’s been given by the club.
I just find the Emery love ridiculous because it’s not genuine or based on facts. It’s just another way to say that Arteta sucks without having to motivate why he sucks.
Transfers or no transfers, the defence was shambolic under Emery. Hi certainly didn’t expect him to give us a peak Chelsea type of defence but he should have done much better with what he had.
“We have too many middle management types at the club whose operating principle is “I’ll sandbag my goals so that I can hit them easily and look like a hero”.
IMO. that is exactly the issue in the Arsenal hierarchy. It shouldn’t be that way for what is meant to be a big club. We won’t be a big club for much longer if that’s the general attitude within the organisation.
Klopp had liverpool putting in title runs and CL final runs within a few years of joining liverpool
I think Emery’s biggest issue (there were several) was he clearly lost the dressing room
In the first half of his first season the direction was clearly upwards and the players seemed to buy into it (Ozil aside)
But he fucked up the closing stages of the season, started the next season iffy and then it very quickly went to proper shit
china1 the guy right before klopp had a pretty strong title run too. what’s your point?
you could easily transpose rodgers’ 2nd place finish with klopp’s 8th, 4th, 4th and say the equivalent of what people say on here about emery that he shoulda been given more time…
but i’m pretty sure not a whole lot of pool supporters were saying that in klopp’s 2nd full season
China, “But he fucked up the closing stages of the season, started the next season iffy and then it very quickly went to proper shit” Couldn’t agree more. That’s what I meant when I said he should have done better with what he had. It’s often a meaningless exercise to compare managers because their circumstances are so different, even in the same club. Emery was a head coach while Arteta now is probably more comparable to Wenger in terms of influence. So you’re left with looking at what they could and should have achieved with the means at their disposal.… Read more »
Rodgers’ title run was 90% Luis Suarez dropping in the single best most dominating season of a player in the history of the EPL. They had 61 pts before that freak season and 62 pts after the freak season, with 84 pts in between. Hard to compare at all the sustained success that Klopp has shown to that one extraordinary season by an individual player.
Pierre “Top 4 this season and then be patient and wait for klopp and pep to leave as we will never reach that level, and will just have to wait until liverpool and city return to the pack.” —————————————————————————————————————– That is wishful thinking. As long as City doesn’t change the ownership and DOF, I can’t see we can catch them in another 5 years. As for the Pool, their fans are very united. One of the big problem is fan division since the Wenger days. For me, I just want to enjoy European Football with Arsenal. Now that KSE is… Read more »
Le Sauce first off, you have real good points in what you say about wenger’s “mess” and with regards to this quote: “The same fans saying Wenger left a mess are the ones fighting off every criticism of Arteta” – i don’t fit into that category, but it’s sure easy to make it seem like i do. your point about the stadium & debt is well made. Your point about his successes are as well. With regards to SAF, you’re a bit off – his final seasons were 1st and 2nd place finishes and his only mistake was seeing that… Read more »
raptora, think you’re forgetting they had sterling and coutinho as well
Zach,
True but it was Suarez who made all the difference in the world. and won them the extra 20 pts than they would have normally collected.
LS – suspect reason there is a difference is Artetas force of personality . He didn’t just accidentally become a manager. Emery always looked a bit of a rabbit in headlights during his tenure at Arsenal. His constant indecision (let’s have 5 captains ffs) reduced his standing further
Logs into Le Grove , reads the comments . Its Emery vs Arteta again . Logs out .
Zacharse My point with regards to the SAF comparison is that we should put some respect on Wengers name, I am not English and I wasn’t born in England so the reason why a lot of us foreign fans started supporting Arsenal is because of a certain Arsene Wenger, his scintillating brand of football and the early successes he had case in point the invincibles.Also, Wenger wouldn’t have been sacked if we continued making top 4 and not because of the £100M waste, I dare say that if Wenger had left after the 2014 FA cup win, will people still… Read more »
Northbanker, I’m sure that’s true. The other reason is probably just good old corporate waffling. I’ve worked in organizations who have been in a constant state of re-orging and the institutional memory is usually pretty short. You make a big change and it doesn’t work as intended. So you iterate your way back to the initial setup, only with a different set of people. A triumvirate of a CEO, DOF, and head coach sounds great in theory but it’s hard to execute. In real life it’s probably easier to get to an acceptable level of organizational performance by just concentrating… Read more »
This Emery versus Arteta debate is pointless. Emery is a more experienced manager who wasn’t the right fit for our club. He was let go. Let him be.
Arteta is a young coach/manager who seems to be doing well, making mistakes yes, but still doing well in that he is meeting expectations or exceeding them depending on who you talk to.
Sauce i am not english either and i began following arsenal for the same reasons. I appreciate your take here, but the reality is that wenger was kept on for anything but footballing reasons. to boot the people who could have made the decision to fire him were not interested in rocking the boat. point is there was so much going on behind the scenes and none of it had to do w football. that mess ended up being associated w wengers legacy and my feeling is that is totally justifiable- the choices he made, the way he manipulated the… Read more »
China – “Klopp had liverpool putting in title runs and CL final runs within a few years of joining liverpool”. Completely true, as someone said, he had the audacity to predict a title for a team that hadn’t had one in a long time, also he delivered quickly. I knew it before he came to England, and everyone knows it now… the guy is generational manager… likely to achieve legend status. So honestly, to compare Arteta, a 40 year old in his first managerial job, seems unfair. Arsenal fans do that to criticize their own team, which I don’t subscribe… Read more »
Goobergooner talking sense!
Funny how Emery is being louded as a Cup
Manager and yet the only thing Arteta ever
Won is a FA Cup.
Emery wasnt right for us but to Call him
Bum or disgrace is just silly!
Nigel I wasn’t actually comparing him to Arteta. I was just highlighting that Klopp didn’t take long to make them great. Certainly not 5 years
Damn… Emerista Ultra’s going in hard right before a match he is most likely going to get his ass kicked… but to each his own, I guess. I suppose if he beats Liverpool, today we will never hear the end of it.
Never happier to see a manager leave Arsenal then Unai Emery, personally.. and that incudes A Wenger when it was clear he was just hanging on to spite people, the last 3 seasons. Emery ball was so turd.
mid
thats exactly how i remember it too. barely watched after the first 6 months
china,
klopps first 3 seasons:
8th, 4th, 4th
China I was talking about others here talking doom and gloom only for Arsenal in relation to City and Pool. Always used as a negative on us. Imagine .. in any league, Guardiola with all the money in the world to spend, and Klopp being well supported. Klopp would’ve crushed Bayern on a level playing field, or even close in spending. We can just continue our rebuild and try to be relevant here and in Europe until one of them leaves. When they’re both gone though, City will always be challenging because of the overspend. Liverpool will never be this… Read more »
Nigel
Liverpool were dominant from the mid 1970’s through to the late 1980’s, long before football became about money, so they have form.
Saying they’ll never be this dominant again (having twice proved they know how to dominate) seems a statement more in hope than expectation.
We, on the other hand, were last level with Liverpool when Bertie Mee was sacked, and no-one at Arsenal has ever been able to take the club anywhere near the levels Liverpool have reached, which I find quite depressing.
Emery — good coach, shite at the Arsenal
Arteta — new to the coaching/management game, big potential
My question is … if you go on a PSG fan blog… do you think there is a dozen or more people ready to jump in everytime somebody name drops Emery to defend his honor? I’m going with, no and hell no.
So honestly I really just don’t get the point of it and never will.
Klopp has spent a fortune to get Liverpool to where they are. Their recruitment has been excellent. However they broke two transfer records to go from 4th to title challengers. Hasn’t exactly done it on a shoestring budget.
I’m expecting this summer to be our big window.
Gbat
Liverpool operate levels above Arsenal.
A lot of Klopp’s spend was financed by getting £200m* for two players, Coutinho and Suarez.
Arsenal never pull in money on that scale when selling players.
Midwest,
That’s because it’s not really about Emery here. It’s just another stick to beat Arteta with. I’d imagine that the PSG fans barely remember him.
HerbsArmy
They got lucky with the crazy Coutinho deal but they’ve done it the right way. They’ve had a plan and executed it very well. However it has taken smart signings to get them where they are. Like all the best teams. I don’t subscribe to the thinking that all it takes is a top manager.
It’ll take an excellent summer recruitment strategy to move us closer.
We can absolutely win a PL title while Pep + Klopp are at City + Liverpool. Success isn’t continual, the future isn’t etched into stone….. If someone had told you in May 2004, that Arsenal wouldn’t win another title until at least 2022/23, and even that season it would still be unlikely, most fans would have laughed at you. Football and football narrative can change very quickly, after the invincible’s we struggled to recreated a winning structure, nobody seen that coming, Chelsea and then City changed the landscape. Liverpool went 30 years without a top flight title, United were dominant… Read more »
Gbat
To have the sort of summer most Arsenal fans want would mean needing a lot of good fortune and breaking a lot of old habits.
Hopefully CL qualification gives us those options.
Mid
“My question is … if you go on a PSG fan blog… do you think there is a dozen or more people ready to jump in everytime somebody name drops Emery to defend his honor? I’m going with, no and hell no.”
Try telling Pedro to stop mentioning him at every turn, that will stop the conversation
When Pedro writes that the man is a bum for being paid a lump sum for the last 8 months of his contract, are we to just tag on like toe rags?
LS, Hahaha. If you actually believe that you need to see a psychiatrist. It most probably has to do with the double standards that Emery and Arteta had to face in this blog fueled by the blogger’s unconditional love towards one, and full on abuse towards the other one. Emery was an Auba penalty away from a top 4 finish and missed it by a point, yet now Arteta is doing some incredible, unthinkable job by having Arsenal in a good position for a top 4 place. Arteta lowered the bar with the 8th finishes to now be considered the… Read more »
Diss-
I guess… we are just fundamentally different.. I don’t care in the least bit if Pedro slights Emery or treats every manager 100% fairly in his blog. It’s really doesn’t matter to me. Pedro is a fan not a news agency.
The reason why Emery gets mentioned is Pedro. He went in two footed when the man was head coach, set a precedent and then continued to slam him in very abject terms after he moved on. Rather than walk back some comments or just moved on Pedro doubles ul ala Trump so the circular conversation continues If you’re going to slam Emerista ultra or whatever perjorate fitting for the purpiose, add Pedro to the list …or just ignore the Emery posts. No one misses Emery He was a short term roll of the dice by Arsenal to quickly return to… Read more »
Mid
That’s the difference then
You’re happy to read about Pedro maliciously sliming a decent human being because he had the audacity to apply to manage Arsenal. some of us are not.
Pushing back against Pedro excesses has nothing to do with Arteta by the way.
“My question is … if you go on a PSG fan blog… do you think there is a dozen or more people ready to jump in everytime somebody name drops Emery to defend his honor? I’m going with, no and hell no.”
I looked into this and it appears that PSG fans do debate Unai Emery when he is brought up. Perhaps, not to the same extent as Le Grove but it happens nonetheless. Take a look
https://leforum.culturepsg.com/index.php?showtopic=6127&st=11600
https://www.reddit.com/r/psg/comments/tgkuby/rothen_senflamme_jerome_rothen_its_too_easy_to/
https://www.forumpsg.com/topic/3470-matchs-de-paris-ligue-1/page/81/#comment-803622
Gbat: “I don’t subscribe to the thinking that all it takes is a top manager. It’ll take an excellent summer recruitment strategy to move us closer.” That’s what Pep and Klopp give you – clear vision and the ability to judge the right positions they need to strengthen and also the correct player for the positions they marked as problematic. A lot of the deals they made are in the 30-40m pounds. Very doable for a club like Arsenal to maybe not buy 5 30-40m players in one window but across 2 windows. It’s just that they barely miss in… Read more »
Serious question Diss why do you care? I think Emery was a bum for us too. Didn’;t get us 4th place, Didnt win any trophies and didnt get rid of our trouble makers. So yes I don’t care if Pedro calls Emery a bum.
Rich, Herbs…. You’re both right.. Herbs, Liverpool may have their moments after Klopp, but with American owners who won’t spend like Abrramovich or Sheiks, they won’t be any huge dynasty problem for us. Especially with a Gerrard level manager lol. How’s he looking now ?, after so many were lauding him here. Rich, I always agree with you… but in this instance, I’d like our chances if at least one of them is gone.. then one subpar season from the other opens everything up. But we’d still be able to challenge one toe to toe. You’re totally right about the… Read more »
Arsenal was not ready for a head coach, right after 22 years of an omnipresent manager that thinks he was a guarantor of the bank loan that built our stadium
We didn’t have the backroom stability and culture then and we still don’t have it now.
That’s why I think Arteta was right to do that power grab the first chance he got.
Iused to subscribe to that belief that Arteta should have never been elevated to manager but now my views have changed. Let the manager have the power and own the consequences.
If nobody misses him you all sure have a funny way of talking about him every 10 seconds.
Everyone knows Pedro is an Arteta Ultra.. doubt he cares if he is labelled one.
‘As for arteta, i appreciate that not everyone i sold on him. doesn’t mean i’m not going to argue against dum dum hot takes, doesnt mean i want arteta to stay for 25 yrs either. what he’s done speaks for itself, the platform we now have to attract talent, fight and play fun fucking football again is huge for the club, the supporters and whoever comes in to manage after him.’
I really can’t argue against this and I understand your POV. Cheers
Mid
Yea, I have his poster on my bathroom wall and wank to it everyday
I’m not the one triggered by people talking about the preceding substantive head coach/manager we had.
At least you stated that you think th man was a bum so that’s it.
Should be a good game later on tonight, will be interesting to see how Emery approaches it.
A 1 goal defeat wouldn’t be a bad result, a draw would be dreamland. I hope that they can keep it competitive and we get an entertaining spectacle like last night.
Nigel
I can’t believe Villa sacked Dean Smith for a novice manager who won an SPL title in a two team league, and against a Celtic that were out of sorts.
He added Coutinho, and Villa have been piss poor.
He probably only has a job because they can’t afford to sack him so soon after sacking Smith.
Midwest, at the end of the day this is a football blog and every footballing opinion is most likely be contested or supported. That’s what make it fun, you can’t have a situation where Emery isn’t talked about on an Arsenal blog because he was the last manger we had before Tets. I really don’t care much about what he’s gone on to do after Arsenal but it’s clear the man isn’t a bum like Pedro said. I’m sure the backlash has made Pedro pivot and called him “bum at Arsenal”
Hahaaha Diss don’t pull a Trump and try to turn this back on me..for your own behavior I could go back and look but literally everytime Pedro mentions Emery … you get every incensed about the unfairness of it all.
You do you, man.. Just telling you I don’t get it. .
Wenger eagle
Liverpool’s offensive firepower is to much for everyone, with the exception of Man city
Villareal are going down
To be fair Emery is likely only being brought up today because he is seeing over a CL SF later on tonight so it is at least somewhat relevant.
WE
Whatever the result tonight Villarreal can’t have any complaints. EL winners last season and a CL semi final this season is Dreamland stuff. If he had given us that at Arsenal, I’m not sure even Pedro would be so audacious to call him a bum publicly irrespective of his opinion of the man
Probably how it goes down Dissenter but Villarreal have a lot of heart and reduced a Bayern juggernaut to 1 goal over 190 mins of football in the QF so it’s not an impossible ask for them.
Le Sauce … at the end of the day it’s an … Arsenal football blog.. so what Emery did for us ..is the most relevant thing no?
I’m also curious to see how emery approaches this. seems like a whole lot of their season is riding on it since they sit in 7th 9 points off CL spots, 5 off europa
Agreed Le Sauce, he has already equaled their greatest ever CL run no matter what happens and that 2006 Villarreal side were far more gifted a group with prime Riquelme, Marcos Senna, Sorin, Forlan.