CONUNDRUM TO SOLVE IN ATTACK + SOFT JABS FROM LEGENDS

by .

Results weren’t going to keep swinging for us, this weekend, they’ve roundly gone against the top 4 dream.

Spurs beat Norwich looking super organised.

United beat Crystal Palace.

West Ham beat Chelsea.

Basically, the pressure is on. We’ve dropped to 7th place in the league.

The game against Everton really takes on a different kind of pressure.

The pressure to keep up with the pack.

Everton presents a weird challenge. They’ve been awful this season, Rafa hasn’t gotten a grip on their squad, they’ve won four games all year (last, 25th of September). On paper, this game should be a standard win. But they’ve been so bad, for so long, that we’re in that territory where something has to happen to them.

Will they down tools on Rafa to move on the Liverpool legend? Or will they show up and save him?

Great teams don’t pay heed to that sort of stuff, they just pile on the misery. Arsenal has to be that team on Monday.

Win the game, we’re right where we need to be.

In fact, if there’s a 2+ goal advantage to Arsenal and we keep a cleansheet, we’ll have the same amount of points as Chelsea over the stretch, we’ll have the same defensive record as Liverpool since the new team started, and we’ll move into the top 4 for goals scored over that period.

Lose the game and we start to get into shaky territory, especially with online fans, who seem to have desperately weak knees. Someone told me Arsenal was a ‘rotten’ club this morning… imagine being that disconnected from what’s going on at Arsenal?

So what are we looking for?

Well, an answer to our attacking problems. Auba is out of sorts, he’s not built for the system we’re trying to play, and as a result, it makes it hard to create and score goals.

Arteta can’t sit on that issue forever. We’re 5 games without a goal. Something has to budge.

The issue? Most of our options are either limited in the same way, or they’ve never been tested before.

Do you really take this moment to play Martinelli through the middle?

Do you take a chance on Eddie running the line hard when it’s clear his mind is on the fat contract he’s going to get next season?

We’ve seen Lacazette through the middle, he’s very good at certain aspects, but he lacks the speed we need.

Everyone has watched slack-jawed as Folarin Balogun has lit up the U23s, but he’s so, so green.

There’s no simple solve in the system.

Thierry Henry is channelling some of that Class of 92 spirit with his media outings. I love the man, he’s one of my favourite humans, but the cattle prodding at the Arsenal project is quite boring. This is his hot take post-United.

“Aubameyang is your captain. He is your goal scorer. You put him as your captain. 15 minutes to go, you’re losing 3-2 and you take him off.

“3-2 away from home, you need a goal and you take your captain, your symbol, off the field. You know he can score you goals so something is not right there.”

Arteta did make a mistake with Auba, he left him on too long, the guy absolutely stunk out Old Trafford, if we’d brought one other options, we might have made a go for it.

Everyone is entitled to a shit opinion, my issue with Thierry is we all saw him hanging out in the box with the Swedish billionaire. We all heard him say he couldn’t see what the plan was. We all know he’s being disingenuous with his commentary.

Each to their own, but insinuating dressing room unrest off the back of a poor take isn’t helpful… it’s not even good trolling, because I don’t think there’s an Arsenal fan around that would agree.

The striker rumour mill is getting spicy. DCL was linked on Saturday. We’re being linked with Jonathan David of Lille today, we know they’d sell anyone if the bid was right. Luka Jovic came on for Madrid yesterday and won a MOTM award, certainly, he’d be a possible loan candidate, Edu has a great relationship with Madrid. There are options, hard to see an outcome where we do nothing… as long as we’re in the mix for top four come Jan 2nd.

The ask at Everton is clear: 3 points. Keep up the pressure. Show that the chance creation issue is being taken seriously.

Check out The Arsenal Opinion below if you want some audio or visual fodder. I know I say it a lot, but thank you for listening and watching the videos. Podcasting is a new level of difficulty and building an audience has taken 3 years. We finally have one and it’s been such a great experience because people are very supportive and kind when it comes to audio.

Thank you! x

289 Responses to “CONUNDRUM TO SOLVE IN ATTACK + SOFT JABS FROM LEGENDS”

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  1. Ishola70

    Pedro
    “do you think they’ve gone down the toilet… or that they can only survive when things are really bad?”

    People say that. That they thrived on discontent but it’s more than that.

    They have lost characters on the show or if these characters are still around they have been diluted by some very bland prsenters and participants now.

    Even the interviews outside the grounds now from Robbie seem to be old hat and tired.

    Didn’t realise he was a BBC radio presenter before going in at AFTV until recently.

  2. Habesha Gooner

    There aren’t a lot of managers we can pull now. Conte is gone. Zidane won’t come here and I am not so sure about him without world class players. To be honest, Unless a Ten hag or potter become available, I would stick it out with Arteta depending on how he delivers this season. Europa league is a minimum for me though. If we are in that godforsaken conference league bullshit then I would fire him too. We need a window where he is allowed to revamp the forward line. The little bit of identity he has shown needs to keep growing with a Europa league finish. His recruitment this season has been spot on and impressive. So I am not against him staying under two conditions. Identity and a Europa league finish minimum.

    But if the chance was available I would break the bank for ten hag. Sadly he will go to United, now that they have a proper football person in management. I also believe Potter is a better coach as of right now. The football he plays is amazing. If he had better quality players, then Brighton would be going places. So Arteta needs to be measured to that level of managers.

  3. Ishola70

    Dissenter
    “They just diversified and morphed into a more establishment entity.”

    Yes establishment you hit the nail on the head and that’s why it’s shit now.

    As you said you are better off watching the fans own yotube channels now rather than AFTV. People like Turk and the man with the bald head who is matey with Kevin Campbell.

  4. Mr Serge

    I have never watched aftv on you tube just some bullshit embarrassing clips I get sent from fans of other teams
    They are an embarrassment to our team and as we say at the ground fuck aftv

  5. Ishola70

    Habesha

    ” If we are in that godforsaken conference league bullshit then I would fire him too. ”
    ha ha ha! I would rather finish 8th like last season rather than 7th to qualify for that losers tournament. Failure either way.

    All it does is rubberstamp and remind you of your previous failures in that competition..

    Some here are already bigging it up though.

    The trips to Latvia already intriguing people.

  6. Habesha Gooner

    Aftv has become better infact. There are interesting people on there. There is actual content now besides the ‘fam’, ‘blood’ and that bullshit. All people watched it as an entertainment to see arsenal fans losing their shit. Now though they are doing tactical analysis, build ups, post match interviews, and the like. And they have genuinely better content. It is not the same as before where it had screaming fans going for it.

    Pedro’s content is good too. Johnny is really good. He makes his points clearly and he addresses most of the concerns fans have. Pedro is too but the Arteta fanboy in him holds him back sometimes.

  7. Habesha Gooner

    Ish
    Better 8th than play the likes of mura for a 3rd tier European competition. UEFA stink. There is no need for that tournament other than greed. They aren’t thinking about how small clubs will get money, rather how they will get money.

  8. Ishola70

    Rubbish Habesha.

    Are you seriously telling me the young geek with glasses who keeps prattling on about Xg throughout games is an engaging character.

    And the other young guy the black/mixed race one? He is bland as well.

    Doesn’t matter about conceived content.

    To be truly entertaining and succesful it would need true engaging characters back on it.

  9. MD-Gunner

    Pedro, Not saying much before tomorrow’s game, but couldn’t resist answering your posts.

    Henry is “cattle prodding at the Arsenal project is quite boring.”
    Looks like the bedwetters are in good company.

    Pedro
    December 5, 2021 20:12:41
    “RH, your problem is you have no vision.”

    On the contrary RH does have a vision he stares into an Arteta made abyss.

    Tuchel, Klopp, Pep are the top 3 managers, for 4th or 5th place we are up against Moyes, Rangnick and Conte. Does anyone really think Arteta belongs into this lineup of managers?

  10. Ishola70

    Pedro’s podcast is good because we see engaging characters on it and they are engaging in their own ways.

    He could have the best content around but if he had a couple of boring drips alongside him presenting it then not so good.

  11. Rich

    Tom

    Nuno winning the league was a slight exaggeration, but Nuno getting Spurs going after 3 games and beating City, while we were bottom after Arteta had spent £220 million in almost 2 years….

    Was definitely a thing, but a few games later Nuno was sacked, they lost their next 3, and we won our next 3….

    Mourinho making Spurs title challengers was 100% a thing

  12. Dissenter

    Ishola
    Like Habisha just stated, AFTV is indeed beter and is everything but shite.
    It’s become a professionally run fan channel, in fact it it the exemplar for fan channels.

    What he did was to move from a fan channel that revolves around irate disappointed fans making inflammatory comments after a loss to keep with different programming that’s targeted at different aspects of the fan base.

    It’s by far a model and a success story.
    You’re couldn’t be more wrong when you call it shite. They evolved with the times and did it well.

  13. Habesha Gooner

    Ish
    Honestly to the average arsenal fan, DT and Troopz losing their shit was embarrassing. AFTV was successful because fans of other clubs were watching it because it was entertaining to see a club in demise.

    But now arsenal fans are watching it. Because it is interesting. It isn’t as entertaining for everyone else. But it engages arsenal fans. Cecil, James, Dan, Turkish are some of my favorites on there. They talk about the football we are playing. They address things we should be better at, where we are and the like. It is like watching a genuine fan opinion on your team. To me that better. And their views of these videos haven’t gone down. It doesn’t mean I am right. It is just subjective.

  14. Dissenter

    Tom
    10th in the table won’t get Arteta fired
    There are already well prepared mitigating factors and specially derived league tables that will be used to defend him.

  15. Ishola70

    Habesha

    DT and Troopz were not the be all and end all of AFTV before.

    They were the extreme.

    You had others who had engaging characters without the extremes of DT and Troopz.

    I couldn’t stand DT either and Troopz as we know is a bit of an idiot.

    AFTV have now gone too far to the safe side. Boring bland presenters.

    They should have found an inbetween of the two.

  16. Pedro

    Ish, it’s so hard to shift your brand positioning, especially in content.

    LadBible did a good job, but there aren’t many that can make that move.

  17. Mr Serge

    I think anything below 6th is failure this season and will be met as such by the board
    There has to be a big move of the needle this season and so far it’s ok. If we have the season we had after Xmas last year we can hit top 4 just

  18. Rich

    A 7th place finish should be a sackable offence, unless we win one of the domestic cups, Europa League qualification should be the minimum requirement this season

    I expect to go into the final weeks, with plenty of ups + downs, but there’s no excuses to not get over the line this season

    2 consecutive seasons outside Europe is an impossible position to justify, particularly after being backed with £150 million in the summer

    West Ham, Leicester, Spurs, all playing in Europe, and we’ve got all week to prepare, we need to take advantage of that, particularly in the home-straight

    Still think United are slight favourites for 4th though, they’ve got so many goals in the squad

  19. Habesha Gooner

    Yep, 7th is irreversible for me. He would need to go. It’s been two years already and we need to show progress in playing style and results too. If not we need to let someone else give it a go.

    6th with an identity, he should keep his job if no one better than him is available. I still have my eyes on Potter. Ten hag is gone. Someone elite will take him after ajax completely smash some big teams in the UCL. Potter though, will want to take the job. His Brighton team are a delight to watch. Maupay, Tossard, welbeck and co isn’t the best forward line. They keep missing chances left and right. He would be a good fit for us if Arteta doesn’t work out.

  20. Ishola70

    Rich

    “A 7th place finish should be a sackable offence, unless we win one of the domestic cups,”

    lol I knew the old FA Cup get out clause would come along soon enough.

    Wenger won a few FA Cups himself didn’t he but the difference was that he was qualifying for the CL most seasons as well to go along with it.

    Arteta has to prove himself in the EPL now.

    If we win the League Cup are you seriously suggesting that would offset another season outside the top six in the EPL?

  21. Champagne Charlie

    “Also feel like it’ll be foolish to go on another one of them Wenger looking like “projects”.The league is becoming harder, the smaller teams have more money to spend for very good players.“

    Then literally 5 mins later:

    “4th place isn’t that hard when you factor in how inconsistent every other team fighting for it is and I’d be disappointed if we weren’t in the mix heading into Feb/March.“

    Some of you need to go over your strategy of attack against the current regime. Can’t hit them with ‘the league is hard, we need the best and not a project’ and then follow it up with ‘4th isn’t a tough ask’.

  22. englandsbest

    I expect Arsenal to win the games we expect them to win – like Everton tomorrow – and lose the games we think they may lose – like Man U a few days ago. If that happens Arsenal will be about where we expect them to be in the table come Jan.

    I hope that the Jan window upgrades our expectations. To do that, the Club needs to sign a high-calibre goal scorer. Say, Haland. Then, if Arsenal win the games we expect them to win, a top 4 finish is a probability.

  23. Pedro

    Habesha, Potter has one of the most expensive buy-out clauses in the league. Suspect that’s why he hasn’t been picked off yet.

  24. Habesha Gooner

    – We have no Europewhile every top 6 competitor has Europe
    – We spent the most money out of all our top six competitors
    – The manager has been here for over two seasons
    – we need an identity
    – 6th should be a minimum requirement for a manager that intends to manage arsenal

    Those are the facts. 6th and an identity after those circumstances shouldn’t be negotiable.

  25. Ishola70

    EnglandsBest

    “Say, Haland”

    Haland again.

    Ragnick was asked in his first press conference for Man United if signing Haland in January was a possibility for Man United.

    He just laughed and said yes we are going to sign Haland and Lewandowski in January.

    And that’s money bags Man United.

  26. Dissenter

    I shoal
    AFTV has been a commercial success to the point that Robbie has several permanent staff on the pay roll. He has 1.5 million subscriber and is one of the few entities that have gotten over one billion views on YouTube.

    Clearly, he doesn’t have the spiky inflammatory characters, they moved on to start their own channels.
    There’s some level of sustained apathy about Arsenal, some type of burn-out. Legrove traffic reflects that too. I believe. We’ve been operating on anger for too long.

  27. Mr Serge

    The fa cup guarantees uefa cup so yeah winning that is definitely going to save his job
    I am very happy with our signings in the summer I keep saying this but we are a proper striker and CM away from challenging top 4
    Let’s see if we get anyone in Jan
    My feeling is we keep our powder dry until the summer but Edu may be able to get something done in Jan. Especially if we can get shot of pepe

  28. Rich

    Ish

    Given the option of 5th, or 7th + League Cup

    I’d take the trophy everyday of the week, I’d never turn my nose up at a piece of silverware

  29. Dissenter

    Pedro
    How high can Potters’ buy-out be since he’s not in the top 10 paid managers in the league?
    I don’t think his buy-out will dissuade any big club.

  30. LoveSausage

    I’ve personally always taken TH14’s punditry with a big grain of salt. Being a great player doesn’t always translate to off the field expertise. That said, it’s a bit rich to call him disingenuous. He didn’t start being critical towards Arsenal when he got involved with Ek, that happened much earlier. The Occam’s Razor here is that he simply believes that Arsenal is run by a bunch of incompetents and got involved with Ek because of that.

  31. Dissenter

    It’s too risky to base expectations on a cup
    There’s too much luck and dice throwing involved with domestic cups.

    It has to be the league qualification for Europe. Everything else is a bonus.
    Emery made that mistake of over-relying on the Europe league. Anyone can do an upset in another in a one off final or semis.

  32. Ishola70

    Dissenter

    You obviously were not reading what I said previously.

    It doesn’t have to be extreme characters on AFTV.

    Just ones with interesting characters of which there were quite a few previously. The current presenters are not interesting.

    And regarding the numbers of subscriptions to their channel? Do you not think that this big number was not built up in previous years before the present? You are saying their subscriptions have rocketed up overnight just from the start of this season?

    The BBC has many viewers but more people than ever before hardly watch BBC television now. More are abandoning it from any time previously.

    People will veer away from AFTV in good time if they continue to have nothing presenters on it

  33. Dissenter

    Love Sausage
    Henry miscalculated with the Ek move, even Vieera has wisely dissociated himself from the take-over.

    Henry should have stayed neutral about ownership in a statesmanly manner. It’s strange because he once was close to Josh Kroenke.

  34. Dissenter

    Ishola
    I get you now.
    You’re saying it’s not as captivating as before because the characters/content is bland.
    It’s just that AFTV has acquired some loyal viewership, the ones that craved the drama may have already moved on.

  35. Dissenter

    Rich
    I would rather take the predictability of the league over 38 games compared with the roulette nature of the cups.
    A cop run is not a measure of progress. I want a cup but be in a good place in the league while you make that cup run.

  36. LoveSausage

    Diss,

    I agree he overplayed his hand. His appearance at the Spuds game was designed for maximum PR impact in case of a loss. But be that as it may, I think he’s very honest in his belief that Arsenal is a mess. You don’t have to agree with it but there’s no need to mischaracterise what he’s doing.

  37. Rich

    Ish

    2 trophies in 2.5 seasons, I’d love us to win a cup this season

    With no Europe, we should be aiming to compete for both domestic trophies, we’re long overdue a League Cup win

    I was in Cardiff when we got turned over by Chelsea in 2007, and out in Melbourne with Birmingham + Villa mates in 2011, and my Villa mate was sicker than me at the final whistle, the 3-0 against City a few years back was another day to forget

    I’d love to put those ghosts to bed this season, give me a trophy over a 5th place finish 100%, I’d probably take either of the domestic cups over a 4th place finish as well

  38. Leedsgunner

    Barcelona wants to get rid of De Jong.

    If they were willing, I tell you what, in his present form, I would love to do a straight swap for Partey.

    I’m not convinced that Partey is suited for this league… or am I writing him off too soon?

    Anyone else with me?

    Ideally I would love to bring in Zakaria (free) and Partey for De Jong…

    Two excellent two young midfielders who would cost us next to nothing.

  39. Nigel Tufnel

    People were coronating Vieira after a few games. Anyone want to backtrack now ?

    Anybody here want to admit you were saying:
    ” I always wanted Patrick to manage us”, “I always said he’d be an amazing manager” ….

    Admit it. Pedro has the comments with your names.

    It’s the new manager bounce. You’ve all heard about it, but have no clue what it means. Slight variation in duration.

    Now it’s Gerrards turn. When will you ever learn? Some genius is saying he’ll already be a worthy successor to Klopp, who is an incredible manager.

    I’ll tell you now. When Klopp finally leaves Liverpool, they will miss him forever. If FSG doesn’t spend like Abramovich or Man City oil pigs, they’ll have a bigger fall than Arsenal, right back to midtable. Gerrard will not win anything unless he goes to city or chelsea.

    Receding hairline and TR7 are misanthropes. They are here gloating when we fail as a team, and never pleased with successes for us.

    They say it’s all about Arteta. Sure.

  40. Leedsgunner

    Nigel

    Re New manager Bounce

    At least when we had our new manager bounce we won a FA Cup… just saying!

    What did Tottenham get with Nuno?

    A manager of the Month award! 😂😂😂

  41. Ishola70

    Rich

    It will signify nothing if Arteta fails to get top six again in the league.

    A League Cup win and europa league qualification through the EPL = passable.

    A League Cup win but outside top six in the EPL = not passable

    An FA Cup win which as another poster said qualifies you for next seasons Europa League but failing again in the EPL = not really satisfactory but just about passable.

    And passable or not passable is in regards to Arteta being seen as the right man to continue.

    You must realise that the true mark of whether a manager is of the true required standard is to succeed in the EPL rather than the domestic cups and that’s not even going into the fact that the domestic cups are not as strongly fought for now as they were in their heyday before the big money came into the EPL and Champions League.

  42. Ishola70

    You have contradicted yourself Rich from previous posts.

    You said quite clearly before that if Arteta fails in the EPL then in your opinion he should be replaced.

    But now at a later time you are implying just a League Cup win regardless of another EPL failure is rosy for you.

    Quite contradictory.

  43. Ishola70

    Zakaria is pants.

    He was in the Moechengladbach team that was 6-0 down at half time today at home to Freiburg.

    And he is generally just an erratic player.

  44. Nigel Tufnel

    I’m sorry. I forgot to list spanishdave with his misanthropic friends.

    Never a positive word about our team. Not around here when things are going well.

    Arteta messed up against United. I’m happy to admit.

    I just hope it doesn’t keep happening that way.
    I want a bounceback against Everton, and I don’t really care who gets credit for it.

    I’ll give credit to players and coaches on an individual performance basis.

    The haters want us to lose so they can hammer Arteta and snipe at Pedro. What an existence.

  45. Rich

    “A 7th place finish should be a sackable offence, unless we win one of the domestic cups,”

    Seems pretty clear to me, I’ve said many times that Europa League qualification should be the minimum requirement, and that I think we’ll finish 5th.

    Given the choice though, I’d take either of the domestic cups over 4th, 5th or 6th

    4th isn’t a trophy, there’s no day out at Wembley, and no trophy

    There’ll likely be a maximum of 7 points between 4th and 8th at the finish line, the idea 5th, is better than 7th and a cup, I’m just not buying that

    Hopefully we can do both, but trophies are what it’s all about

  46. Ishola70

    Too many people are drawn to just physical attributes regarding players.

    Zakaria for sure has the physical capabilities but damn this guy is erratic and has very dubious concentration capabilities and discipline.

    People have been going on about Zakaria for years now. He still hasn’t made that real big move yet. Wonder why.

  47. Ishola70

    Rich

    “but trophies are what it’s all about”

    Are they?

    So you would be quite happy for Arteta to win the League Cup for the next five seasons while also finishing 8th in the EPL as well for the same number of years?

  48. LoveSausage

    Ishola,

    I agree. I feel a lot of the players we’re being linked to are mid table quality but physically strong. DCL and Watkins come to mind. Physicality matters to a point but mobility is generally more important. Muscles don’t matter if you’re not able to put yourself in positions where you can use them.

  49. Leedsgunner

    Newcastle is looking for defensive, midfield and goal keeping options.

    They are not short of money.

    Offer them Leno for £20m, Holding for £15m Cedric for £2m and Elneny for £10m.

    We would be up and in profit overall if we did this.

    There’s £47m there… to use towards bringing in a top striker… or a top young midfielder.

  50. Rich

    Ish, if the equation was 4 x 4th place finishes, but no cups

    And 4 x 8th place finishes, but 4 League cups

    Then I’d take the cups, some big teams have been decades without a trophy, I’d rather win the League cup, than qualify for the CL, just to be the whipping boys of Europe, and no silverware

    Obviously it won’t work like that, and we’d need to see progress in the league, but a piece of silverware, will always be better than finishing 2 places higher, but with no silverware

  51. Ishola70

    Rich

    “I’d rather win the League cup, than qualify for the CL, just to be the whipping boys of Europe, and no silverware”

    So you are saying you would be content just to stay at a certain level and not try to elevate that level because of fears of embarrassment?

  52. Rich

    Ish

    What’s better for you?

    We went from 2005 – 2014 without a trophy, but qualified for the CL every season

    Since 2014 we’ve won 4 FA Cups + 4 Charity Shields

    History never remembers the team who finishes second or fifth, they remember the trophy winners, and there’s no trophy for finishing 5th or 2nd

  53. Nigel Tufnel

    Dissenter ..
    yes I did criticize Arteta a lot this week. Most people here say I’m an apologist for him. That should prove that I can call out whoever deserves it.
    I try to be even handed. I respect the people who are not married to a position on anything or anyone.

    You have to admit that giving very specific criticism of what happens in a particular match is just analysis… not really moaning.
    If we return to previous good form soon, I’ll be very happy to have much less to criticize.

  54. Nigel Tufnel

    Just to weigh in. I’d prefer 4th over a league cup.
    A very practical reason, and Pedro should agree on this…. we’re a team being built young and for the near future..

    champions league makes it much easier to draw players. Nobody worth having is coming for last year’s league cup.

  55. Ishola70

    Rich

    Who remembers Charity Shield winners?

    The situation has changed at Arsenal now Rich.

    When we were not winning trophies but qualifying for CL every season we were at least seen as sitting at one of the top tables in european football and this was acknowledged by neutrals as well.

    Now we are not sitting at the top tables of european football. We are on the back tables.

    Fans took for granted CL qualification under Wenger. Pierre is right about that. What he always forgets though is that Wenger failed in his last two seasons to qualify for it.

    Never underestimate the importance of being an established CL club in today’s football world.

    If you want to sit permanently on the back tables and show off a few domestic cups to those sitting at the top tables they are hardly going to take a backwards glance at you.

  56. Rich

    Ish

    It doesn’t have to be one or the other, but hypothetically qualifying for a trophy and not getting anywhere near winning it, isn’t as good as winning an actual trophy, and it never will be

    Obviously I want the club to be in sound financial health, but I couldn’t care less about the value of the club, that’s for KSE to worry about

    Theres only 1 thing better than a cup win, and that’s a title win, finishing 5th 4th or 2nd, will never compete with an actual trophy, not in a million years

    If your celebrating finishing 4th, but turning your nose up at beating Chelsea in an FA Cup final, then your priorities are wrong, and you’ve basically become a corporate bitch

  57. Ishola70

    Rich

    “It doesn’t have to be one or the other, but hypothetically qualifying for a trophy and not getting anywhere near winning it, isn’t as good as winning an actual trophy, and it never will be”

    It’s already been explained to you by other posters that just participating in the CL can get you a better calibre of player joining. That’s the lure and draw the CL has. No potential player joining is going to give a shit that the club won the League Cup.

    It’s not just all about trophies if we delve a little deeper and actually look at the real importance of each trophy and what it signifies.

    And it also depends on the club itself regarding trophies.

    If Spurs win this Europa League Conference Cup in Albania they will probably go through the motions and get off the pitch quick enough whereas if a team from a less glamorous league wins this trophy they will be doing 50 laps of honour around the pitch with that particular cup.

    Sorry but winning multiple League Cups but failing at the higher end of football continously should never be on the agenda for Arsenal.

  58. Dissenter

    Rich
    If you truly believe in the ‘project’ narrative, then surely 4th place is better.
    It offers opportunity to attract better players and compete at a higher level.
    Imagine what hosting clubs like Juve, Atletico , PSG at the emirates does for the club

  59. Ishola70

    Rich

    Pierre will agree with you when he comes on.

    He is already dreaming of next seasons Europa Conference League Cup final in some outpost of eastern europe with Eddie N popping up with the winner to take the trophy home.

  60. Rich

    Ish, hypothetically, what’s the point in attracting a better caliber of player, if you’re not going to win anything?

    If someone offered you 3 options:

    1. 4 x 8th place finishes + 4 x League Cups

    2. 4 x 5th place finishes, no trophies

    3. 4 x 4th place finishes, eliminated 2 years in the group stage, and 2 years in the round of 16, and no trophies

    Surely you’d take the trophies?

    You can’t seriously believe that finishing 5th, is better than finish 8th and winning a cup

    Both qualify for the Europa, 1 scenario involves winning a cup and a day out at Wembley, the other involves assembling a few more points, but no trophy

    Winning a trophy every year, would always trump qualifying for Europe via the league, but never winning a trophy

    I get it doesn’t work like this, but if those were the options, filling up the trophy cabinet, would always be better than increased revenue, but no trophies

    I don’t know how you can argue against that premise

  61. Tony

    ‘Tuchel, Klopp, Pep are the top 3 managers, for 4th or 5th place we are up against Moyes, Rangnick and Conte. Does anyone really think Arteta belongs into this lineup of managers?’

    Well there’s to start the very short list.
    Pedro
    Nigel
    EB
    ES
    Charlie
    Others?

    In other news it appears Arteta wants Yaya Toure as a coach. Why City legends and not Bergkamp who has offered his services.

    Looks like Arteta is more blue than red and white. Probably too worried Bergkamp’s love from the club and fans would be more than for Arteta. That and Yaya will be a yes man and Bergkamp would be himself the far better player and coach than Arteta island YaYa’s in my POV.

    Those knocking Paddy V obviously fail to see the identity he has the team playing with where, if he had Arteta’s budget to spend of over £200m+++, he would be doing far better than Arteta.

    That’s what experience does for you.

    24 months of Arteta and 4 months for Paddy.

    Palace means little to me, but Paddy was/is a legend as a player compared to Arteta, so I’ll always watch and enjoy what he does as a manager or other influences he has on the game in whatever role he takes up.

    I watched the game with my son where Paddy lost to another late goal from Manure’s 3 shots on target to Places 2 compared to Manure’s 10 shots against us on target last Thursday.

    I’d say that Paddy is doing well with crucial injuries to 2 critical players that would be like us losing Saka & ESR.

    In 5 months Paddy is leaps and bounds ahead of his process than Arteta was with his so called process at the same 4-month stage with us into his management tenure.

    Player wise not much different to what Arteta retained from Emery who finished 5th, a point of 4th and got to the EL final.

  62. The Bard

    The short term issue is to be playing well and winning games going into the Jan transfer window when we can buy a couple of top players. We desperately been a striker and a midfield player. It will be much more difficult to sign players if we’re tanking. Artetas job could depend on it. I dont know what you mean by online going weak at the knees Pedro. Surely they are largely the ones who go to games ?

  63. MD-Gunner

    The Bookies Odds to Finish Top 4

    Man City 1-200
    Liverpool 1-50
    Chelsea 1-25
    Man Utd. Evens
    West Ham 3-1
    Spuds 7-2
    Arsenal 4-1
    BHA 66-1
    Wolves 80-1
    Villa 80-1

    Looks about right considering they have more to loose than me.

  64. Nigel Tufnel

    Tony,
    You are the epitome of what I was talking about. We don’t know anything about Patrick as a coach.
    There’s no way to know yet. The fools who were sold on him after a month because they’re playing more interesting ball than under Woy, extremely foolish. Any manager is more interesting than him. Also too fast to say Patrick’s no good at all.

    Keep the proclamations aside for a while. I’m sure you’ll have other opinions to embarass yourself in the meantime.

    I am liking the direction Arteta is trying to take us in, so I’m behind him.

    Tuchel is very good. Mikel not in his league.

    Conte is great. Arteta no where near him.

    Neither you nor I know sh1t about Rangadick.

    Pep and Klopp are super elite generational legends. So…

    I had plenty of criticism for Arteta over his United failure. I’m nowhere near giving up on him and this new group.

    Don’t try to speak for reasonable and intelligent supporters.

  65. Tom

    “Neither you nor I know sh1t about Rangadick.“

    Don’t you mean Ragnarok, Nigel?

    All I know is that United have finally got themselves a true RR manager.

  66. Tony

    ‘We don’t know anything about Patrick as a coach’

    Perhaps you don’t, but I’ve followed his career since New York. Winners always interest me.

    Ever heard of Google, Nigel? Can find so much knowledge about successful people, such as RR.

    Have a read and you’ll likely talk less shite at posters here.

  67. Graham62

    Really looking forward to tonight’s game, on so many levels.
    No doubt, we should win the game but I’m hoping that Arteta doesn’t feel obliged to grant Everton too much respect and let them dictate proceedings.
    I wonder, will Aubameyang start?
    Let’s see.

  68. Olumide

    Too many excuses for Arteta.
    Now, it’s the shit first 11.
    Arteta owns this first 11. He either bought or kept all the players in the first 11.

    If the first 11 is shit, Arteta should be taking responsibility for that shitness.
    He bought all the back 5.
    He bought Partey.
    He begged Xhaka to stay.
    He extended ESR and Saka.
    He bought Odegaard.
    He extended Auba.

    This is Arteta’s team. If he can’t get top 4 with a first 11 where he bought 7 of the players and gave the other 4 new contracts, then he’s not good enough for Arsenal.

    I don’t know of any elite coach that will say “I can’t make top 4 because I’ve only bought 7 of the starting 11 players. Judge me when I’ve bought the 11!”

    Tuchel doesn’t even have 2 of his own players in the Chelsea starting eleven. And before we say Chelsea starting 11 is crazy good, remember it was the same squad Lampard managed.

    Last season, before Tuchel, Kante was on the bench and Jorginho was rubbish. Last season, it was only the top 2.

    Now, with Tuchel’s work at Chelsea, it’s now the big 3. Personally, I doubt Arteta can get top 4 for Arsenal even if he buys his first 11 (I’ll love to be proven wrong).

  69. Spanishdave

    RR will by nobody but watch the team fly.
    It’s not about who you by it’s about clarity and motivation.
    Arteta shouldn’t have to be on the touch line constantly shouting at the players to move forwards off the ball this should be sorted out on the training ground.
    Our movement off the ball is terrible.

  70. Matt

    It’s a big no to DCL for me. He would be an improvement but I think like Odegaard, he is not good enough to make us any sort of serious contender. Aside from that, the guy willingly dressed like a schoolgirl on the cover of a magazine. Not the sort of personality we need to be adding to the squad. He clearly has other distractions and focuses going on other than football.

  71. Olumide

    Graham62
    There are no more excuses, although I’m sure they’ll source some more out.

    There’ll always be excuses for Arteta. Even if we finish 8th this season, there’ll still be excuses to defend him.

    Haven’t you seen the clear improvement in defence? Yet, we’ve conceded more than we’ve scored.

  72. Pierre

    I’m not sure we have or have ever had a choice on whether it should be a trophy or champions league football….football is not that simplistic.

    You just take what comes along ….at the start of the season everyone wants to win or at least compete for the league title, under wenger it was normal to be in contention at Christmas time , for the last 2 seasons we have not been in contention.
    I would say that if we win tonight and then have a run of victories up until the new year , we will still be in contention( though doubtful we will win) for the league title..
    No team should write themseves off if they are within 6 points of the top going into the new year , especially a team with no European football to contend with

    Lose tonight and we are among the also rans,
    Lose tonight and it could have a totally negative affect on our season in the league.

    I have been voicing my concerns about our away performances for a while now, i just couldn’t see us sustaining our good form whilst conceding so many chances away from home, i knew the 3 away games v liverpool, united and Everton would tell us more about the manager and present Arsenal team than our 8/9 game unbeaten run.

    On paper they looked tough fixtures but in reality we couldn’t play them at a better time, liverpool had dropped points in their previous 2 games and united and everton are/were on a dreadful run of form.

    Tonight’s game will tell us where we are at …a win will boost the confidence and set us up nicely for some winnable fixtures leading up to the new year , a defeat will damage the confidence of everyone involved with the club from the manager to the players to the fans..

    Tonight is what i would call a must win game, Arteta needs to find a way for the team to perform away from home , conceding over 17 shots per game is not sustainable, he has spent a fortune on the keeper and defence and we are conceding 7 shots a game more than the 2nd half of last season when we had Holding as our most consistent defender , bellerin , Tierney and a choice of mari, gabriel, or luiz , with leno in goal..

    I am confident we will win tonight..

  73. JOEL

    I certainly wouldn’t say that online commenters have “weak knees”…We just see Arteta for what he is! …A Young Inexperienced Manager And Coach who’s not quite good enough for the job.Our squad in comparison to Spurs and West Ham is undoubtedly a stronger one but Arteta’s inability to create a team capable of slick incisive passing matched by a consistent defensive press and poor in-game management means that Arsenal will struggle to compete for a very gettable Champions League spot.The side will continue to win a few…draw a couple…lose one or two…without the consistency and momentum required…So it’s not a case if “weak knees” more of one of disappointment that a team which promises so much is hampered by the one person who should be taking them forward to the next level.

  74. Rich

    Pierre

    It was a hypothetical, but if it was a choice of 2 options?

    Surely it’s better to finish 8th this season and win the League Cup, than to finish 5th, and not win a cup?

    Surely it’s better to win 4 consecutive League Cup’s, than it is to qualify for the CL for 4 seasons, but get knocked out at the group stages?

    What are players going to remember at the end of their careers, 4 trophies? Or 4 x 4th place finishes?

    Surely the players would take the trophies?

    As a fan I’d take the trophies as well, my best and worst days as a fan have been cup finals, and title winning+ losing games

    Arsenal are historically the 3rd biggest club in the country, and that’s because we’ve won the third most trophies, not because we qualified for 20 consecutive years into the CL without winning it

    I get the argument about revenue, players wanting to play in the CL, increased sponsorship + exposure, club stature, and that’s the best way to try and build

    I can understand KSE wanting that from a financial perspective, and the people working at the club wanting to keep their paymasters happy

    But as fans + players, from purely a sporting + enjoyment perspective, winning a trophy, will always trump qualifying for the CL, but not winning a trophy

    Everyday of the week, and any player or fan who disagrees with that, is basically a sellout

  75. Graham62

    JOEL

    “Slick incisive passing”

    This is something I don’t quite understand. After just a few games at AV, Gerrard has got the team playing at a faster tempo. Why after two years can none of our players do the same? There are moments in games when you see it and then whoosh…. it’s gone.
    We are probably the only team in the league that plays at such a slow tempo and yet we have the players capable of doing so much more.
    Working tirelessly on your defensive shape and structure stagnates the team. Natural instincts are lost because players are consumed with too much theoretical junk.
    Even Burnley and Norwich play faster than us. OK the top three are on a different level but surely after two years at the helm we should be more instinctive and at ease in our approach.

    Oops! I’ve done it again.

    Sorry.

    I’ll go 2-1 win tonight or better.

  76. englandsbest

    For an Arsenal fan like me winning a trophy always comes first – though I admit with the League Cup, only just… It’s historical – you don’t look back and count the number of times Arsenal qualified for Europe.

    Yeah, I now about the money – but in my book glory means more. But I’d be happier with the FA Cup. And far happier still with the League title.

  77. Rich

    EB, completely agree

    My Mam’s side of the family are all massive Cardiff City fans, go home + away

    They all know about 1927, talk about the FA cup final against Portsmouth in 2008 being a missed opportunity, and the League Cup final defeat against Liverpool

    They just want to live to see Cardiff lift a bit of silverware, one side of my family are Newcastle season ticket holders , and they want exactly the same thing

    Like you say, winning something is historical, and should always mean more to fans + players, than just qualifying for Europe

    You can understand why priorities inside clubs might be different from a financial perspective, but for fans + players, you can’t beat a day at out winning silverware, seeing your club written into the record books, particularly if it’s at a rivals expense

    The idea 5th is better than 8th + a cup, seems absolutely bonkers to me

  78. Nelson

    Arteta said that Auba is doing every things he asked him to do except scoring goal. We saw Auba is running after the ball carrying defenders. There is only so much a pair of old leg can do. When he has a chance to score, He is not as sharp and powerful as before. He is hitting some softies now. He has even lost track of the offside line many times.

    My theory is that you don’t ask Ronaldo to high press. Even Salah stays on the right side waiting for his chance. You never see him pressing the GK. If Arteta wants someone to press the defenders and the GK, Martelli would be a better choice. Even Eddie can do what Auba is doing now..

  79. Samesong

    Cold night Everton will be up for this game. We like to give teams a lift.

    If we score early we will be in trouble.

    All of a sudden also Fred has become a worldie for United since playing us.

  80. S Asoa

    The odds by pundits is for an Arsenal win, except Owens who stands by a draw. Everton are in a bad shape. Best time to take them down

  81. Matt

    I cant recall the last time we went into a league game that I was really confident we would win. I think a lot of the squad share that same feeling.

  82. mindurself

    Why are people saying that 6th is the minimum? 4th should be the minimum for a guy who spent the most in Europe!!
    This blog wanted Wenger out when we were constantly getting at least 4th, playing amazing attacking football, had a young squad and a few FA cups sprinkled over the top. I’m not saying it was wrong to get rid of Wenger, but how can this blog go from saying he wasn’t good enough to standing up for a guy who has spent an enormous amount of money to still not achieve Wenger’s minimum?

  83. Mb

    mindurself

    It’s called goal post shifting. People who share your opinions are called bed-wetters because you know, there is a lower expectation now.

  84. englandsbest

    Heaven save us from the political posturings of Gary Neville and Gary Lineker. Free speech is one thing, taking their opinions seriously on anything apart from pro football is another. On reflection, I don’t rate their biased opinions on football either.

    The so-called pundits at Sky are a pale shadow of Andy Gray, Rodney Marsh, etc. And creaky Lineker on MOTD (for which he is paid £2 mil pa public money) creaks on interminably.

    As for their soccer talents, Neville is notable for clobbering Reyes and Lineker for tap-in goals.

  85. englandsbest

    mindurself

    I take it you weren’t around when Arsene arrived as manager.

    If you were, you would know that Arsene inherited probably the best defence in Europe, the England GK (who cost one million), Ian Wright, Dennis Bergkamp, Paul Merson, etc, etc. You would also know that Arsene came with inside knowledge of French football at a time when they had some of the finest players in Europe.

    I don’t need to tell you what he left behind.

  86. Terraloon

    Rich

    Arsenal are historically the 3rd biggest club in the country, and that’s because we’ve won the third most trophies, not because we qualified for 20 consecutive years into the CL without winning it

    Of course the numbers are there to prove the point about numbers of trophies but the gap between 3rdArsenal and indeed Chelsea and City is closing at a pace and when you add the likes of The European Super Cup then the gap reduces even further.

    Even then I sure that winning trophies in different eras distorts matters.

    For instance are Old Etonians a historically bigger club that Southampton ? OE have won the FA Cup twice and the only trophy Southampton have ever one was the FA once.

    Or ,(and let’s be honest ) are Huddersfield with three league wins a historically bigger club than Spurs with 2 league wins?

    Big clubs of yesteryear included the likes of Villa and Everton still big clubs of course but it’s been a long old time since either could claim to be in the top 4 or 5 English clubs and there’s the danger if Arsenal don’t get back to winning a cup or league every year then that 3rd place will be a thing of the past

  87. englandsbest

    andy1886

    What the pair say – or, for that matter, what any pro football player says – does not bother or interest me in the slightest unless it’s about football. Quoting their opinion seriously on, say, pseudo-politics – as some of the media do (tongue-in-cheek I imagine) is another matter.

  88. andy1886

    Free speech EB, we all have it and don’t have the right to deny it to others even if we disagree. You do of course have the right to not read or listen to their musings if you wish.

  89. Nigel Tufnel

    Tony,
    sorry, I don’t agree ….. to me google and Wikipedia are not enough for me to take your opinion as anything more than recent, media driven….low to basic level knowledge.
    For me to pass some judgement on a manager, I’d need to be watching a league every week including domestic tournaments. Following the news all week too.

    Maybe he’ll be great as a manager and/or executive.. but who knows?

    I hope he’s a disaster for them.

    Those pr1cks would’ve been far better off keeping Moyes, but backing him fast and big. That team he inherited was completely old and spent, badly needed change. Instead they got expensive drama and expectations with LvG, Jose, Ole.

  90. mindurself

    englandsbest

    Yes, I was around when Wenger arrived. I’ve supported Arsenal for over 3 decades (almost 4).

    I don’t understand your point.

    My point is simply if 4th wasn’t good enough (quite rightly), how is 6th (especially given the biggest budget in Europe)? It’s a completely illogical position.

    Arteta should get 4th or the sack!

  91. Berg10kamp

    We will be lucky to get 4th, altho we are capable of doing it. It will come down to the players stepping up and grinding out those tough points when it matters. I know the manager is held accountable but at the end of the day, it’s the players who need to bring that fire out in themselves. If they train well and show something great then don’t do the same in the game that’s mostly on them.

    Nobody likes arteta micro managing on the sides but due to this young team both in age and familiarity some hand holding is required to drill the ideas into them.

    For today’s game, we need to win and everyone knows that. As much as we need the boys to bring their A game, we also need Everton to suck a little as we still have the risk of being our own worst enemy.

    Let’s hope we see some big performances today. CoYG!!

  92. englandsbest

    mindurself

    Don’t backtrack. Your point is that Arteta should get the sack if Arsenal don’t finish in top 4. And you give, in evidence, Wenger’s record, in particular his flying start. My point is that if you start a 100 mtere race 50m down the track you are likely to end up first.

    And if you start a 100m race 50 m back, you are unlikely to win the race.

    Starting from where Arteta began required a long-term process – not a short-term fix.

  93. Samesong

    Tonight is a tough game. Even if Everton have been in shit form they’ve beaten us last two outings home and away I believe. That plays on the brain also. Hope i’m wrong and we smash them.

  94. mindurself

    englandsbest

    Wenger consistently got us into the top 4. Not just at the beginning when he inherited that back line but for 20 out of 22 seasons. Nobody is talking about flying starts. Arteta’s best has never been as good as Wenger’s worst (just look at the league table from any year). Yet, this blog wanted Wenger out when we were playing champagne football with a youthful team and on a modest budget. This same blog backs Arteta. It makes no sense.

  95. Berg10kamp

    I get the argument here and at first glance it’s solid. But we need to remember that wenger was declining. Arteta is at the opposite end where his trajectory is predicted to progress and become better eventually reaching the heights of wenger or maybe better. Only time will tell.

    I still think if wenger was given the budgets of emery and arteta he would most likely have performed better. Another reason for wenger leaving was due to the club wanting to change the model which backfired and they moved back to the manager model. I’m sure they wish they didn’t and kept wenger to use those transfer budgets. Altho I suspect he would not have used in its entirety. That said, he would not have paid 72m for pepe. 🙂

  96. mindurself

    Berg10kamp

    As I said earlier, I’m not saying it was wrong to get rid of Wenger, I’m just saying it makes no sense to have wanted him out but be pro Arteta. The key point is that Wenger’s worst was still better than Arteta’s best.

    I get that this blog was one of the 1st to back Arteta as manager, but it’s now falling into the sunk cost fallacy. This blog and the Arsenal board need to accept that they made a mistake with Arteta.

  97. Habesha Gooner

    Xhaka back in the lineup. I knew Arteta was pitching to get him in as soon as he was fit. I hope him not having played for a while doesn’t catchup with us. Tierney is also back. ESR is rested. And Lacazette is back in the line up instead of Auba. A lot of positives part from being nervous about Xhaka.

  98. Pierre

    Mindurself
    “Wenger consistently got us into the top 4. Not just at the beginning when he inherited that back line but for 20 out of 22 seasons. Nobody is talking about flying starts. Arteta’s best has never been as good as Wenger’s worst (just look at the league table from any year). Yet, this blog wanted Wenger out when we were playing champagne football with a youthful team and on a modest budget. This same blog backs Arteta. It makes no sense.”

    Couldn’t have said it better myself.