I didn’t want to do it, but I am going to. Yep, I’m planting a flag on the whole Antonio Conte thing because I think it perfectly captures the difference between being strategic and reactionary when it comes to the beautiful game.
Daniel Levy has had an up and down career at Spurs. His peak was undoubtedly hiring Mauricio Pochettino. The guy had vision, he was charismatic, everyone loved him, and he delivered as much as one could without silverware.
That’s when things started going wrong. You can luck out in business, catch fire without really knowing why, and that seems to be what happened here. Just look at how many visionary business people that can never replicate their initial success. Steve Jobs did Apple, Pixar, and NeXT… Mark Zuckerburg made ranking babes a billion dollar venture and hasn’t had an innovation since.
Serial success comes from thinking strategically.
After making the Champions League final, Poch was very public about the dip that was coming, but Daniel Levy didn’t have the stomach to take the pain of the rebuilt. Ray Dalio, one of the greats of the hedge fund game, always says that people run from things that hurt in life which is why they fail to improve.
So where did Levy run? To the place of least pain, at least on paper. He looked at a Champions League finalist squad and instead of understanding why it made it that far, he assumed… incorrectly. His assumption was that Spursy in elite football was a thing and there was only one man that could fix it: Jose Mourinho. Why? Because he’s a ‘winner.’
That move made sense to the countless people that talk about ‘elite’ online without knowing what it means. It was clear that the squad he inherited was not going to react well to an old school dictator telling them they were soft boys. Poch was a modern leader, empathetic, understanding, and mentor like. Jose came in, did his usual wrecking ball job, and left a mess. The mess was so extreme, no manager in Europe wanted to touch it. One would assume that the money wasn’t there for the rebuild, Daniel Levy wanted to control things, and their new tech director isn’t that impressive.
They landed on Nuno. A second Mendes shill. What was the thinking there? Is he a master of coaching? No. Is he a visionary? No. Does he play the sort of football Spurs fans demand? No. He’s a coach that shills for super agents. That’s why the Valencia fans heckled him out despite him making top 4 for them. That mistake, which we all saw coming, cost them £10m.
So now they’re at attempt number 3 post-reboot and Daniel Levy has made the most unimaginative hire possible. He’s gone all-in on a ‘winner’ again. Can I knock the talent of Antonio Conte? Absolutely not. He’s a winner. He improves all types of players. He will 100% get an uptick in results because he’s ruthlessly organised.
But what is underpinning this decision?
What is the strategy? Because ‘winning’ isn’t a strategy I’m afraid.
Conte is a short term fix, but for me, he’s a very rich fix for a very different type of problem.
What are the ingredients for 2021 Antonio Conte to work.
He needs to work with good players.
When he rolled into Chelsea, the job he did wasn’t a miracle. He took over a squad that had won a title in 2015 and he made them purr that season. He did a fabulous job, but let’s be clear, Jose Mourinho did the hard work on that squad. They were winners. It was a more elite version of what Emery did for Arsenal over the first 21 games.
He moved to Inter Milan under the guidance of Beppe Morotta, arguably the best technical director on the planet. He was given money to spend, but he was controlled. He beat out a Juventus in decline after they moved on Allegri. A terrific job, but he had loads of resource and elite people surrounding him.
Modern Conte needs money. He needs good players. He needs to make an impact fast.
I’m not sure he has that at Spurs.
There’s a tremendous leadership job to be done as well.
Harry Kane doesn’t want to be there. I have extreme doubts Conte changes the equation for him because being an elite manager in the Premier League at the moment, in all reality, is hardly a game-changer. Being a ‘winner’ doesn’t mean anything in a league with Tuchel, Klopp, and Pep Guardiola. Spurs is a rebuild, Kane is 28 years old, he doesn’t want to be the old man crowning a 3 year journey with an FA Cup win.
Antonio Conte is on record saying that he’d rather kill a player than let him upset the camp. That’s his style. It’s brute force dictatorship. The Italian might have a different approach to Mourinho, but it lives in the same world. Do we think that sort of approach is going to map to the profile of the players? It didn’t under Jose or Nuno.
He also needs money and he will bang the door for it. When he was let loose at Chelsea, he made some pretty dire signings, then proceeded to crash the team the next season… throwing the players under the bus when he did it.
Then you wade into some of the murky details. Conte already said no in the summer. We know he’s on record saying Spurs is second rate. What changed?
Football knows Conte. His team were fast out the traps for the United role because that is the job for him. He’s built for that sort of expensive mess. In my view, if he’s taking Spurs it’s because United told him there wasn’t going to be a job for him, and more broadly, there wasn’t a better offer in Europe. No Barca, No Madrid, No Paris… so Spurs became the only option on the table.
I don’t know how many times I need to say this: There is nothing elite about being difficult to work with in 2021. You can’t be ‘too much of a winner’ and use that to write off bad behaviour. Someone was talking to me on Twitter yesterday, explaining Conte’s eliteness, and in the same breath admitting he crashed his second season at Chelsea because ‘he didn’t get the players he wanted.’ Can you imagine doing that in any other business? No. Because it’s embarrassing. Sulking because you want things your way is what children do.
But… he does win things.
He won the Premier League with record points.
He broke the Juventus stranglehold on Serie A.
He has an aura that follows him from club to club.
It’s a big signing for Spurs and it will feel very good for them right now.
I’m just not sure he’s the fit for where they need to go.
This is a desperate hire. £15m a year for a brand name that will bring a 20 person coaching staff is not how football works in 2021. I am going to be honest here, I’d have been more worried if they’d given Graham Potter or Ten Haag the keys to the castle for the next 5 years. They didn’t, you know why? Because it’s painful.
Arsenal went down a crappier version of this path with Unai Emery. We invested in ‘nearly’ players that looked good on paper but couldn’t deliver. Last summer, we did the same, it didn’t work.
So what are we doing this season? We’re taking the pain. We’ve alligned on a strategy that meets where we are as a club. We’re going to build back based on a Project Premium Youth model. It will be tough because getting back to the top is tough. But you know what? It’s sustainable. You know what is elite? Sustainable models in football.
RB Leipzig is a sustainable model of football. They grow coaches and players and have a standardised way of playing across 4 countries. They can still compete even when they lose Nagelsmann or Marco Rose. Why? Because the strategy is clear and it is ruthlessly adhered to.
Liverpool are peak sustainable. They have a clear approach to how they operate. They have a very specific style of football. They win trophies and maintain an incredible level of football. There’s no drama up there.
Manchester City is another side that does that same. They have a style that has been implemented up and down the club. They don’t fire their manager all the time. They are now developing elite young talent and compliment the side with big signings every year.
Teams that aren’t sustainable?
Manchester United. There’s a vision, but it’s not very good. They buy stars that don’t fit to any particular model. They chop and change their managers. They don’t really progress. It’s a mess because they live in a world of star fuckery. Jadon doesn’t get games, despite costing £70m. Ronaldo gets all the games, despite being 36. It’s about share price over there and selling shirts. They’d be more dangerous with an actual vision that was sustainable.
Spurs might make top 4 this season, but they are not working with a vision of 5 years in mind, because if they were, the chances are, they’d not have hired Conte.
So in short, there’s a lot of glitz, there’s a lot of ‘THIS IS HOW YOU DO IT’ from people that don’t know, and I suspect that all that glitters is not gold might be a truism here.
Well, I hope so. Let’s see what they have. Top 4 just got spicier.
Gotta approve of the Ronaldo bail out.
To save Emery the bother of reverting to his dusty language text books, here’s a quisk handy phrase book to help him circumvent English and immediately immerse himself in the local patois.
I’m gan yem – vuelvo a la casa
Howay the lads – pongan huevos muchachos
Hadaway and shite – que te vayas a la mierda
Y’aaareeet – good ebening
I bet Willock is in utter turmoil, poor lad.
Wenger Eagle
Yep agree. They can’t control midfield because they don’t have effective partnerships. Team is so unbalanced & with no identity.
Your point about AWB I 100% agree with. He’s a good ball winner but not a great baller. They are so lucky.
Sorry to drag it back to Spurs, but saw this and it made me chuckle:
BREAKING: CONTE SACKED BY SPURS:
“It has been almost 10 minutes since Antonio took over and regretfully results have not improved.
We wish Antonio all the best.”
AFC
I have heard him being compared to Sagna as a RB which is insulting really. He makes prime Sagna look like Dani Alves on the ball.
£50m for a RB that cannot provide any kind of outlet/offensive threat and £80m for a slow, thick and clumsy CB that cannot pass out from the back. Woodward should try standup.
WOAB
😊
Conte’s already had experience of creating miracles from hopeless situations; just look at the way he managed to regrow his barnet!
His plugs are sensational, let’s be serious.
Agree gotta say that is an elite plug game he’s rocking.
Incredible to me that Ole has frozen Van De Beek out with some of the mid field options he rocked.
Compared to Sagna? Not having that. In the Modern game now, you have to be able to use the ball you can’t just be a defender. . He can’t do that
The Atalanta goal shows their weakness as defenders and a team. Maguire and AWB are so far apart, schoolboy stuff. It makes me wonder what they do on the training field because that team looks like eleven blokes not a team, hoping for one of their superstars to bail them out. There’s no longevity in that!
Sal
“Incredible to me that Ole has frozen Van De Beek out with some of the mid field options he rocked.”
I mentioned that the other day. There has to be something going on because he is a quality player and that’s a bang average midfield. They’re somehow getting away with it, probably because of Ronaldo. I feel for Atalanta.
Imagine ZZ or Pep with Conte’s plugs. Haha.
If he would have preserved his baldness you can’t help but feel that Conte would be a CL winner by now though, shiny head gets it done.
Actually painful how good Gnabry has become. Arsene definitely long lost his eye for a young player by the time Gnabry was let slip through the net along with Bennacer and Donyell Malen in favour of shite like Sanogo, Joel Campbell and Iwobi.
Have we ever let close to a player that good (Gnabry) leave without a proper crack of the whip?
WE
Andy Cole?
I know there was a problematic backdrop, but he went on to score a shit load of goals.
Apparently Van de Beek is serious about defecting to Arsenal if Arteta comes knocking…
Right age, opportunistic to be sure but worth it at the right price?! What do you think?
I remember he was a brilliant player for Ajax.
The fascination is not Spurs – who gives a stuff about them – it is Conte, and why he signed, and why Levy hired him. It’s inexplicable. You couldn’t dream up a more unlikely pairing – a chairman who hates spending and a manager who has left two bigger Clubs because they wouldn’t spend.
And why only 18 months cotract? Spurs problems need long-term solutions not quick fixes.
A mystery that keeps mystifying. Better call Saul.
I would take Van der beek in a heartbeat, Xhaka would fall further down the pecking order. Van is a far superior player.
There’s tabled talk that Frank Kessie is set to be Conte’s first signing in January.
Conte will attract some solid talent, that’s guaranteed.
Conte promised £280m to splurge on new players.
AFC Forever must be rubbing his hands already……imagine what this will do to Tottenham’s debt and financial spread sheet.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/tottenham-antonio-conte-appointment-fabregas-25362203 Cesc’s thought’s on Conte taking over at Spuds. Looks like Sol is going to learn from Paddy at Palace after his Southend nightmare. Should make for an interesting reunion with Sol still looking to go back into management. Managerial experience gathering on Sol’s part after 2 failed attempts as manager. The first being the owner’s fault. Sol has battled depression as a player and his skin colour he feels has held him back from getting a serious managerial job, which should never have been a reason not to hire. Loved Sol as a player and am really behind him… Read more »
Tom, does the £280m include the sale of Kane?
Ronaldo is unreal
He takes the meaning of big game player to such a different level
I wont be bothered even if Spurs had Sir Alex Ferguson as the manager , they are spurs. Unlikely to win anything anytime soon. The worrying part was If he had gone to UTD , thanks Ronaldo for the assist there.
Spurs are…spursy…
It’s embarrassing how overrated they are every single year
Even the supposedly great Poch never won shit with them at their best best period.
That comment could come back to bite you at the season’s end, Divine
‘Tom, does the £280m include the sale of Kane?‘
Kane’s staying, but half of that €280m I’m hearing is in coupons and promo codes.
Tony
Oh yeah shit , I forgot about the Euro Conference League. Trophy worth waiting 5000 days for. lol
Partey has not been on the losing side in a PL game since April
He’s obviously far from the only deciding factor on whether or not we lose but this stat correlates very closely with what we see which is that he takes our midfield up a level. When lokonga settles and finds more consistency the team will improve further. Or if we go out and get a top class CM. But I don’t think the club will do that
China
Partey has been our best midfielder , and the fact that Pedro is writing sermons on Xhaka is because Lokonga has done well . If an opportunity arrives , I’d prefer we sign somebody in CM there . Considering Xhaka’s spot will open next season.
Pedro *isnt writing
The silver lining to Emery and Conte coming to the PL is that Arteta will be aware he’ll need to up his game further; nothing like having more competition to sharpen you up. Football certainly just got more interesting. Can’t wait for the Amazon docu. The filming, though far from finished, is already crammed full of content that’s an editor’s dream to sew together. I just got the Place docu of 5 episodes; I’ll make a start with my son today. Divine, I would imagine Conte’s directive will be 4th spot this season. Levy needs the CL money badly. Got… Read more »
Tony
I am sure the directive is top 4 , they absolutely need it . Not sure whether a disinterested Kane , a woeful Delle Alli and inconsistent Moura and Bergwijn could deliver that . People talk about how they missed out on selling Kane but dont talk enough about Delle Alli as well , the man fell off a cliff (in terms of form) . They only have Son, who is truly world class , to bail them out. Even West Ham looks miles better than them right now. Conte isnt a miracle worker.
BBC reporting Emery may turn Newcastle down.
Devine
I don’t disagree with what you’re saying and I’, very happy with Delli Ali’s current form, but I was just saying don’t discount the elite Conte. Certainly dispels that elite managers don’t go to shite clubs.
Kane’s just a petulant kid trying to sulk his way out and Gangsta Dreds Delli will soon be sorted by Conte who’s got what Mour’s lost: respect.
Conte’s a winner so will his players have to be. It’s that simple.
Not sure I agree with the overall message of the post. Football is short term. The reason not many ‘big’ clubs go down the route of hiring an unknown and giving him time is because mostly, it don’t work. You’re always chasing the leading pack. The object is to win trophies and make money, if a big name superstar manager comes in for Two years, wins a couple of trophies, blows up and leaves, what’s he done? Won silverware, increased the ‘fan base’ (gloryhunters), increased sponsorship, given the club a feel good factor and made them a better prospect for… Read more »
You can already write the script at Spurs. Improvement in play, more wins. Conte demands more players Levy can’t/ won’t provide them because it costs too much money, Conte leaves in a huff.
“Tom, interesting you have taken offence to my very anti-Spurs comments but not surprising.. The fact you were promoting Dyche for Arsenal tells everyone what you aren’t“ AFC , dude, are for real ? I didn’t take offence to your anti- Spurs comments, I was making fun of your lack of self awareness. ……promoting Dyche for the Arsenal job? Ha ha, must have me confused with CG there. Saying Dyche outperforms his circumstances isn’t equal to liking , or promoting him for anything. His look of a 70s porn flick star/director pretty much eliminates him from a top club job,… Read more »
I watched yesterday the Man United v Atlanta game and to be frank I ask myself what exactly is their best starting eleven. They have accumulated a huge number of “expensively recruited” players. Yet I doubt anyone is clear what is their best team? Why for example did they recruit last summer at huge expense Sancho a left wing when they have playing in same position Rashford? The guy is getting hardly any game time. The previous summer Van der Beek was recruited to play in similar position to Pogba. Again he plays hardly any football for them. Pogba is… Read more »
I don’t get the hype around Pogba at all. I’ve seen him have a couple of great games and that’s it.
You’re right about United though ES, their recruitment policy is just to buy good individuals, seemingly with little or no thought to what they will do with them.
When I look at United, they need a top quality CB and midfield general.
Emery turning down Newcastle for a lack of process. Scenes.
Emirates Ole is a huge part of the problem. The recruitment is also down to him. Wan bissaka is a poor mans Sagna who was recruited with ole’s instructions for 50 mil. Maguire is basically a 30 mil CB that was recruited for 80 mil. He also went for Van de beek and he still hasn’t had 10 starts in the league. It is not to say he didn’t get somethings right. Bruno Fernandez and Cavani are good signings. Sancho is a bit over priced but he is still a good player. Varane will come good because he is class.… Read more »
His look of a 70s porn flick star/director pretty much eliminates him from a top club job, ever.
Tom,
Nice one. Dyche in a porno movie is a powerful and intoxicating image. The gingernating orgasm machine bringing relief to the laydeeez of East Lancashire. But you never know, Conte might give him the number of his syrup maker (toupee tailor?) which would help with his audition with Harvey Weinstein. I remember in the late wenger era, there was always a guy championing Dyche on ‘the Gooner’. Properly eccentric.
Ronaldo just keeps bailing MU out of trouble. Take him out of the equation and United would probably not qualify for the knockout stages.
I would play Cavani and him together far more often because Cavani is class. Greenwood and Rashford also need regular starts. It’s a bit of a conundrum for OGS.
With the squad they have they should be doing far better but to blame OGS for all their mishaps is a bit unfair. Many of the players are just not performing.
Now that Conte has gone to Spuds, who would they hire to run the ship?
Habesha Gooner
The real problem at Man Utd is their transfer policy. They want to be seen to buy headliners
rather than recruit players that are needed.
Buying £50-70 million players who are given virtually no game time is ridiculous.
I doubt that Ole is the person who makes the transfer decisions. He is probably nodding them through.
ES To be honest the only ones that didn’t make sense were Vande beek and Ronaldo. In vande beeks case you can even argue he was needed. They had no creative players besides pogba and Bruno. Mata is over the hill and hasn’t played for ages. Ole didn’t use Van de beek due to his preference to play Mc-fred midfield. Ronaldo is just a statement when they had enough strikers. Sancho was needed. They needed a right winger. Green wood is eventually going to move to CF role when Ronaldo and Cavani leave which is in a season or two.… Read more »
I hope that Emery takes over Newcastle. EPL is getting really interesting this season. Conte may convince Kane that he can win something for them. The contract is for 18 months only. Both Levy and Conte don’t see this as a long term affair.
ES At the start of last season when Spurs hammered United 1-6 at Old Trafford, Neville + Evra we’re having a bedwetting competition at full time, blaming the result on the board for not signing Sancho for Ole at £110 million…. Absolutely crazy, if Neville isn’t willing to call out his mate and be objective, then he should be taken off the United games Really looking forward to the Manchester derby on Sat afternoon, Solksjaer’s got the better of Pep in the head to head, and form goes out the window in these types of games United have the individual… Read more »
Habeesha Gooner
Sancho is a left winger for both England and Man Utd.
Ole may be consulted on transfers but I don’t think that he he is the leader when decisions are made.
Nelson
Emery is not going to Newcastle. He has apparently turned them down and is staying at
Villereal.
The new owners are struggling to make a suitable appointment.
A brilliantly written article that helps illustrate the rabbit hole that some Gooners dig themselves into when trying to convince themselves of unfounded claims. Truly mind contortionist stuff! Will Spurs’ new short term strategy work with Conte you ask? I think there’s a good chance it will. I doubt silverware is as much a concern for Levy as Champions League money. If it were, Mourinho wouldn’t have been fired before a League Cup final to save money. Spuds have one of the largest principal debts in world football. They are in a similar position Arsenal were in after Ashburton Grove… Read more »
It’s also interesting to see some of the more wild takes in the article. None of us were in the Inter boardroom but we’re so sure Conte is terrible to work with and he departed Inter over a temper tantrum. It definitely has nothing to do with the fact that Inter’s parent company, Suning Holdings had an $8 billion debt. They had to sell 20% of their assets and that trickled down to the football club. There’s a good chance, Conte terminating his contract early saved Inter a lot of money. Conte is “so hard” to work with because of… Read more »
I think Pogba has world class talent but not sure his head is there.
He is world class when he feels like it – but truly world class players don’t pick and choose when they show up. That was Ozil’s problem too
Mentality is what distinguishes a Pogba from a Vieira or an Ozil from a DB10.
World class is unapologetically world class and does not require an *, an excuse, or any ifs, buts or maybes. Pogba unfortunately has all those
But ability? He’s insanely good
No one used to say ‘on his day Vieira is incredible’ it was just expected 4 games out of 5. Same for Bergkamp. Same for Henry. Same for Cesc etc
Players who need to have their shortcomings apologized for are simply not world class irrespective of their ability
Sorry when did this change to a Spurs blog?
That’s the thing though, world class players don’t turn in one great performance for every 3-4 below par ones.
Pogba on his day has as much ability as any other MF around but what good is it if he can’t string multiple performances together? He doesn’t deserved to be mentioned in the same sentence as Vieira imo.
Exactly weagle
Ability is only as good as it delivered on the pitch each week, not only when the sun is shining and you’re in the mood
Does anyone think Watford could be a tricky game?
Samesong, if we don’t show up with the right level of commitment, and aren’t efficient at both ends of the pitch, then it’s a game we could easily drop points
Recent performances against Brighton + Palace are reminders of that, if we don’t win, then we could find ourselves back in the bottom half at the beginning of December
Sunday is a must win, we have to win our home games if we want to get back into Europe
Of course Same. They are clearly there to be taken apart, but if they are sat off , as we have a tendency to do this season, then who knows what appears when they find some rhythm. Rafa knows I guess.
Samesong Watford are a side we should be beating on paper at home but as we know football isn’t played on paper. They still aren’t besrly as dangerous as Palace imo who have so many weapons now in Zaha, Olise, Edouard and even Benteke on his day as we saw. Joshua King was a nice pick up for them, was surprised that he wasn’t taken by a PL club sooner and given a real crack considering he has scored 51 PL goals and got 15 assists in 149 starts, not shabby numbers at all for a guy that plays across… Read more »
Rich, Brady
Watford seem to be quite a physical side. I guess they will try to hurt us on set pieces? what do you guys think?
If Rose (Ishola boy) lol plays Saka can destroy him down that flank.
Remember it was Watford who derailed Liverpool’s attempt at replicating the feat of the Invincibles a couple of years ago. Obviously this isn’t the same side but it goes to prove you can’t take anyone lightly anymore. Besides Arsenal has already done their bit in terms of charitable giving in dropping three points to Brentford for the opening day match. We need to be ruthless and get three points, first. Second keep a clean sheet. Third, try to win by three or four goals (or more) to improve our goal difference. If we had a better goal difference we would… Read more »
Pedro: “Being a ‘winner’ doesn’t mean anything in a league with Tuchel, Klopp, and Pep Guardiola.” Could someone explain this sentence, please? In fact hiring winners looks the only way to compete with them. As they, themselves, are winners. It’s clear by what happened to the likes of Lampard and Ole. Am I wrong? And stop comparing Mouninho with Conte please. Conte just had a phenomenal season at Inter where he reached 91 pts, improving on the 72 pts peak in the last 10 years they had before him by almost 20 pts. The title he won at Chelsea makes… Read more »
Raptora mate try and fill in the blanks. Which managers come to mind when you think of managers who are successful very quickly, win a trophy, fall out with players and/or the club hierarchy and then leave in a huff for the next project ?
Of course Maureen is yesterday’s news but surely you can see the similarities.
That was such a random result Leeds. Watford beat them 3-0 too IIRC? Like Middlesbrough stuffing prime Mourinho Chelsea 3-0 back in the Viduka/Yakubu glory days.
United should have their team doctor give Ole something to knock him out just before games start, and after he comes to, tell him they’re behind and there’s fifteen minutes left on the clock.
He’d be amazing.
Unai Emery says no to Newcastle – a wise decision.
WengerEagle I remember being overjoyed when they did it. The subsequent crowing that would have happened from Liverpool fans up and down the land would have been insufferable. Until that result, pundits favourable to Liverpool were ALREADY saying that had Liverpool gone through that season undefeated their streak should be considered of superior quality than what Wenger achieved because they did it more wins. No such such thing as acknowledging graciously a feat by another team as far as Liverpool is concerned… they think the universe revolves around them. I can appreciate that they are a good side and they… Read more »
A lot of people here are downplaying Conte’s appointment. He is not just another manager, easily one of the top 5 managers in the world. If nothing else, his appointment doesn’t do any good to our top 4 hopes.
*with more wins
TR7
Yep, the first managerial gig there will be short-term for their climb up the table. A 2 year job max before you are shitcanned out for an elite gaffer.
Like Mark Hughes at City, as soon as something better comes along (Mancini), you’re out of there.
I’m more interested in who the first group of players they get in, who will be their Robinho statement signing.
Watford is a tricky game. The player that is one to watch out for is Ismiala Sarr. He is their most dangerous player. Joshua king also seems like has found some form. Dennis was also very good vs Everton. If we show up, we will tear them apart. If we think this is in the bag though, it will be a disappointing result.
Leeds
Yep we were fortunate there. Granted City and us beat them too but that was when they had already wrapped up the title.
100 point seasons are obviously more ‘successful’ but our unbeaten season is unique in the modern PL and will never be repeated imo.
I hate bringing politics into the discussion, but the issue at Arsenal mirrors the issue that faces mankind: do we live for the present or do we take steps to secure the future?
Most on here apparently would answer, “Both.”
The grim truth is that ‘Both’ is not an option.
Talk on Luis Diaz (Porto) being Newcastle’s 1st big signing.
He is a brilliant player, was great in the summer Copa America for Colombia and has been top quality for Porto.
WE
Think Newcastle will aim for players who are out of favor at big clubs. For them to lure real big name players they will have to first finish in the top half of the league.
Leeds
I am still waiting for Liverpool to lose. They are 6 wins and 4 draws right now. Every season, as soon as every team has lost once, I breath a sigh of relief. It is not that teams don’t deserve to go unbeaten. It is just that the 2003/4 Arsenal team had everything. More so than these teams that are trying to achieve that feat.
The team is going to need to be in the right head space for Watford. Arsenal’s carefully guarded secret of an explosive start has been rumbled. Watford will expect it and I would be stunned if they aren’t set up to try to press hard from the off to unsettle us and stop the ball reaching ESR and Saka in particular. If Watford turn up like they did at Everton we might have some problems. If they turn up like they did against Southampton, we should be OK. Having the Tinkerman in charge means there’s no way of knowing which… Read more »
We always came up short in Europe though Habesha. This Liverpool team won the CL to be fair to them.
2004 was our golden chance to win, best team in the competition that year and we would have beaten Monaco and Porto if we hadn’t shit the bed vs the Chavs.
CL Final 2006 obviously a bitter pill to swallow but we overachieved in finishing Runners Up with that team.
Still think we would have won that game with 11 men if Eto’o goal stood.
Wenger eagle
Yeah. I think winning the Champions league counts for something. But it is also a cup competition. It doesn’t mean you were the best team or had the best players. It is like holding it against Messi for not having a world cup.
Mane and Salah are great players but Henry and Bergkamp were ridiculous. I think that team would brush this liverpool side aside. I think Liverpool are playing to their fullest potential. If klopp wasn’t there then this team is one that would compete for top 4 and not the title every year.
Weagle I don’t think we overachieved. That was a great team with a great manager playing great football and earning every step of the way
Tho that defense did over achieve. Statistically the greatest defense in CL history was for the most part
Flamini, senderos, toure, eboue. Toure was the only top quality established player of the bunch!
That was some feat. Martin keown defensive coach take a fucking bow. Not keeping him on as defensive coach goes down as one of the poorest mistakes of the wenger reign. We should’ve been doing absolutely everything to keep him.
Another day, another long drawn discussion about how great Conte is. He is a good manager, even a great manager but he is not infallible, he can be beaten. Plus think about this, if you were approached by Tottenham to buy this or that player, I would try to drive up the price up and bleed Spurs dry. Levy is going to be between a rock and a hard place and he won’t be able to drive a hard bargain because Conte will have been given assurances that he will be able to bring in the players he wants. Unless… Read more »
Habesha It is on every season though compared to the World Cup every 4 years and is a 2 legged cup competition as opposed to 1. So the cream of the crop do tend to win it mosts seasons with the odd surprise like Chelsea last season and in 2012. Real and Barca winning 5 CL titles in a row when they were the two best teams on the planet from 2013-2018 tells you that. How many underdog sides in the super financially doped era have upset the odds and won the CL? Even Chelsea last season spent like £250m… Read more »
China
That is what I meant by overachieving, holding 3 top sides in Real Madrid, Juventus and Villarreal all goal-less over 6 combined matches with Flamini at LB and Senderos CB for large spells. Ridiculous feat.
We also needed Henry to pretty much single-handedly drag us into the top 4.
I would back our Invincibles side to beat this Liverpool side too but the fact remains that they achieved success in both Europe and the league.
And as a result, many people (non-Gooners) will rank them above the Invincibles historically in years to come once nostalgia is on a level footing.
Well Liverpool can win the CL yet again this season.
Barca in disarray, Real and Bayern struggling and PSG still not clicking as a unit. City and Chelsea are perhaps their closest rivals in CL too.
Wenger Eagle
I don’t think anyone could claim Pogba is as good as Vieira, it’s not even close. On his day Pogba is a very good player but he makes too many bad decisions. As you know, football is about using your brain not just your feet. Vieira was a beast and truly World Class. I’m not even convinced Pogba is a CM, his positional sense is all over the place.
Samesong, we’ve got some tall players now: Gabriel 6ft,3 White 6ft Tomiyasu 6ft,2 Tavares 6ft Partey 6ft,1 Lokonga 6ft Smith Rowe 6ft There’s also much more pace, power, athleticism, and dynamism in our squad, than there was last October We should be fresh + well prepared with 8 days rest before Watford, anything but 3 points at home would be a terrible result, and I’d like to see a good performance along with those points I’m certainly not taking the points for granted, you never know which Arsenal team will show up, but if we’re disciplined + committed, it’s a… Read more »
Yaya Toure can be compared to Viera, not Pogba.
Sure but on a good day tho Pogba is elite as hell. But ‘on his day’ is not enough
A yaya vieira midfield would be the ultimate combination in a 4-4-2
Yaya was for sure more gifted than Vieira but for every intangible from leadership, mentality, big game performance and effect on spurring on the rest of the team when the chips are down, give me Vieira all day.
I’m biased but I would take prime Paddy over Yaya.
Vieira was so underrated on the ball too. He didn’t score many but he finished like a ST when he was in those advanced positions.
His dink finish vs Everton in the 7-0 and walking the ball around the Leicester keeper to ensure us of an unbeaten campaign just two off the top of my head.
Miles ahead of Keane as a player on the ball while losing none of that physicality and mental toughness that Keane brought to the table.
not having that for one second there is no way in this life or the next that Poggy can be compared to Viera .put Viera in our team now next to Partey and we would win the prem .the guy should be a blue print for the modern day CM .I hear a lot of Arsenal fans say fab is there favourite CM but for me Viera had it all
AFC
Agreed, Pogba is your classic ‘moments’ player with as spectacular a youtube reel as anyone.
Watch the 90 min games though and you will find he struggles to dominate the MF most of the time unlike Vieira and Yaya.
Paddy looping balls over people in the centre circle and driving forward… the good times
TR7 Are Bayern struggling? They sure do ship a lot of goals but they ourscore all of their opponents and absolutely blitz even very good sides on their day. I actually think they will win the CL. They just have too much firepower for any defence to contain and unlike PSG they click perfectly as a unit. Lewandowski is a machine and you have Gnabry, Muller, Sane, Coman, Musiala on top. Great MF too of Goretzka and Kimmich. They need to sort out CB though, Upamecano is a big problem. Teams like Liverpool, City and PSG can really hurt them… Read more »
Pedro / Wenger Eagle
Yep, that’s an accurate description of Pogba.
Vieira was such an important player, he ran that midfield. I loved watching him with the elegant Gilberto, what a player Gilberto Silva was.by the way.
The Arsenal unbeaten season was great obviously but I feel the main reason it will never be repeated is how much more money there is available to the rest of the PL teams outside of the top four these days.
The total spend for the six remaining clubs in the top half of the table in 2003 was around £30m.
Compare that to the £500m clubs from 5-10 place in the table spent in 2019-20 season and you’ll get a more accurate picture.
It’s true Tom and a very valid point.
Lower PL sides have better players now and there are much more strong teams that can beat the best sides on their day.
Even outside the ‘traditional’ top 6 teams you have West Ham, Leicester, Everton that have all spent a lot of money on players.