Well, here we are again, mulling over players we’re not sure we have a chance with.
This morning, everyone is thrashing about in the water because the choice is apparently Odegaard vs Maddison.
Now, I still find the idea of James Maddison a bit nuts. £70m plus whatever a player of his calibre earns… feels a bit of a stretch. But what can’t be denied is he’d be an absolute powerhouse of a signing. We’re absolutely awful from dead-ball situations, he delivers massive amounts of chances from setpieces. He’s a brilliant binder on the pitch, he creates chances, progresses the ball well, and last season he started adding more goals to his game. He was the difference between Leicester being in the title-chasing pack, to finishing 5th again.
Now you’ll remember last week.
‘Oooohhhh, bit pricey, right?’
Skip forward to this morning. Martin Odegaard, our primary target at the start of the summer, is apparently going to be fishing for a move back to the carpet for about half the price.
‘He’s shit, no end product’
Now, a few things we need to be a little wary of here… the player loves Real Madrid. There was a moment a few years ago when Cesc Fabregas had the chance to come back to London because Wenger was sniffing around him. Now, I don’t know if I have this perfectly narrated… but United were circling and Wenger didn’t want him to go there. He waited, but in the end, Cesc used our interest to get assurances at Barca, he stayed another year, then moved to Chelsea after we’d secured Mesut Ozil.
Time is running out in the window, we cannot be allowing Martin to rattle the commitment cage, then find ourselves up shit creek without a second creator again.
On the Norwegians talent profile, please, get away from me with ‘he’s no good’ rubbish. That is such a drossy statement.
Things to remind yourself of:
He’s 22 years old. An absolute baby in terms of the position he’s playing. There is still a lot of space for him to grow as a player and a leader. Where was Jack Grealish at that age? In the Championship scoring 5 goals and landing 5 assists with Aston Villa with big questions over whether he had the right mentality to succeed. Where was James Maddison? With Norwich in the Championship about the bang. Where was Serge Gnabry? Bumming around in Premier League 2 about to get moved out of Arsenal to Germany as a massive flop that wasn’t right in the head.
Players get better. Odegaard is a very good player. He’d played about 14 minutes of football in 6 months before he joined the Premier League. It takes time to adapt to a new culture, to a new fitness regime, and a new style of coaching. He still delivered a good showing. 90th percentile for progressive carries, 86th percentile for progressive passes, 96th percentile for passes attempted, and 98th for passes completed… in a totally broken squad.
Give him a system that doesn’t require him to drop so deep to force things to happen with players like Ben White and Lokonga declogging our slow play and aversion to playing through the middle and you have someone that can really find a next level.
It’s also worth referencing his season with Sociedad where he had a better run into a team that wasn’t on its knees like Arsenal were at Christmas.
Odegaard created 62 chances that season when he was 20 years old. Last season, the biggest chance creator in La Liga was Messi with 77. He is so far from average it is painful. If we can’t land Maddison, then we wouldn’t go far wrong with Odegaard. If you want to land a glimpse of what he could offer us next season, rewatch the Brighton game.
Honestly, I cannot fathom some of the chatter that goes on… Maddison is too expensive, let’s unlock European talent. Odegaard? Nah, not enough end product. Pick a lane. You want now talent, it’ll cost £70m, you want to take a chance on talent, it’ll look like Odegaard. Neither player would be a bad option.
Young players get better, especially those adapting from foreign countries. People complaining about our lack of goals seem to forget that up until matchday 14, we scored under a goal a game (0.85 per game), after we added 2 creators (ESR/Odegaard), we were only outscored by United and City (1.79 per game). \
Imagine what both of them could do in a more balanced team with a captain that has his head in the game?
Right, that’s me done, see you in the comments.
Yo
2
Not sure if Odegaard is gonna make a huge difference for us next season. A Maddison might.
Tr4phy
Love that its a choice between the two with the potential to land one… makes a change
Not sure why it’s relevant to look at what Maddison or Grealish were doing when they were 22 years old. The point is what they’re doing now. Sure, Odegaard might grow to be as good as them but what we need is someone who will fill that role for us NOW.
Spot on Pedro. Before the ankle knock he picked up at the end of March, Odegaard was pure class. Him over Madison any day of the week
DM, it’s extremely relevant to look at what other players were doing at similar ages because people are struggling with the concept that young players can dramatically improve given a bit of time.
Odegaard is a very good fit for Arteta. Aouar is a better player but Arteta and mavericks doesn’t end too well. Locatelli isn’t eager so eff him. Maddison was unattainable because we shelled out the big dough on someone elese.
I’m so glad that the club is backing a manager in a transfer window.
What a beautiful thing to witness; a manager getting all the toys he desires.
Okay, posted this right before this article, but will add Here we go again with the stats that makes anyone look good. I watched all the games last year, along with many on here, and I do not give one damn what statsbomB says. Ode did NOT radically improve us period. Like going all in stansdnA system, and it is not working or has not been working, think mustafi and xhaka, and not working out in real life, even if covid has been surreal life. pool have got a scientist, and a team of 6 making their AI supercomputer model… Read more »
Even at the same price, it has to be Odegaad.
You mean some young players get better.
See Wilshere, Jack. Dominated a prime Barca midfield and then….well we all know what hapened next.
I’m not saying that Odegaard won’t improve but there are never any guarantees. I’m also somewhat allergic to picking up RM’s leavings, that hasn’t worked out too well for us in the past.
No to Ødegaard. he is not the right fit for the EPL. He is David Silva without the acceleration and speed of passing. If given time on the ball, he will produce great passes and everybody will scream genius. But if we were to buy, within 2 years he would divise the fans as much as Xhaka. Good on the ball, but too slow, do not shoot enough and can disappear in games that Arsenal does not dominate. On top of that Real Madrid will demand top money to fund their next year purchase of MBappé. Next summer MBappé will… Read more »
Pedro
Sure, Odegaard is a talented boy, but we need someone who will instantly take us up a level. By walking through the door, Maddison does exactly that. Try and remember how we were buzzing when we found out Wenger was signing Ozil? The club needs the feel good factor back
Looks like the fan base is split on Odegaard.A bit marmite.Everyone else appears to have jumped on the Maddisson bandwagonTruthfully either would do.As to who the better player is or will be remains to be seen.But a decision needs to be made soon,v.soon.My thoughts would be Maddisson is “ oven ready” Odegaard ould be in time & cheaper which would allow us to get who we really neeed.BISSOUMA!
PedroYou are judging Odegaard in isolation. You may think he is a talented player but you got to ask yourself how much does he help Arsenal given the way we play.Our wingers (Pepe, Willian, Saka ) do not make off the ball runs. They all wait to receive the ball from either our fullbacks or our CAM/CM. If they were in the mold of Theo Walcott with blistering pace and ability to make great off the ball runs, Odegaard would have done well for us feeding the ball in to them. But with Saka, Pepe and Willian all waiting to… Read more »
Dissenters been hacked
Val
I remember øde having plenty of pace running from the edge of the circle to close down a GK or CB, didnt look slow at all to me ever
China,
No I didn’t see that, I’ll have to look out for it . A stunning woman,no doubt about it and she is a good actress absolutely but doesn’t make my top 5 .
Val,
Good advice and a cracking line up you’ve picked there yourself. I think Meryl Streep is the only one we both selected though. Picking just 5 is ridiculously difficult.
For the record though mine are
Cate Blanchett
Kathy Bates
Maggie Smith
Meryl Streep
Frances Mcdormand
You can sign them both and play them in the same MF ahead of Partey. We need Odes and Madders.
Well said Pedro I’d be gassed if we got Madders but the price, injury history and character question marks puts me around 80%. Would be nice to snatch a rivals top player too but signing Martin at 22, a guy without a real home, feels more like we’d be getting a guy who would become a true gunner. Half a season under his belt with everything to prove, he should hit the ground running and provide cover if the Smith picks up an early knock. The price I’ve seen quoted so far is 30m! To think, 24yr old Emily Brenda… Read more »
Øde would be preferable imo. less expensive, 6 months already logged, huge huge huge potential, the right mentality- at around 40m thats a steal to me
Elizabeth Taylor was both beautiful and talented.
Odegaard hasn’t got huge huge huge potential.
Odegaard is a limited CAM for me and won’t create enough goals or chip in with some himself to really push us forward. Has to be Maddison.
Rosicky
Whether his potential is huge huge huge or not is not the issue its whether he fulfills it
Just read some bs article saying øde has asked RM to sell him to arsenal. Doesnt seem like the full picture there…
Odegaard is all Arteta can manage. It’s that simple.
He’s a good boy with restricted repertoire who will do the bidding of the manager to the letter. He is the great leader behind the scenes because he just does what he’s told. . He’s not capable of spontaneity which is what Arteta wants.
There are better players out there but they won’t fit into whatever Arteta is trying to do.
Arteta will get what he wants but will leave the club with lots of dubious signings when he’s eventually fired.
Possible move for Lautoro Martinez reported on whoscored.com. Does it make sense?
Again we just need two:
Aouar and Bissouma …
Not sure why anyone is thinking KSE can’t afford 70m for maddison… if man city can max out their spend every fkn season then surely stan, who’s def one of those billionaires who made huge profits during Covid even if the sporting franchises made losses, can afford some controversial FFP move. Looking like man city is going to get away w all of it… so why shouldnt we
I am unclear Pedro: I understood that Odegaard was only available for another loan, while Maddison would be a purchase.
Are we talking apples and oranges here?
And I feel about both the way I thought about Sophia L:oren and Bridget Bardot when I was a kid (showing my age): I’d be lucky to get either of them, but the odds of either were very long!
Zacharse
“Not sure why anyone is thinking KSE can’t afford 70m for maddison”
Of course we could have spent 70 million on Maddison, that is if he was ever available at all.
We just needed to reprioritize our targets, we just spent about 50 millions for a position that even you will agree is not critical.
If only Arsenal just put round pegs in the right holes.
Apparently the deal for Runarsson has broken down. Take that £30-40m allocated for Ramsdale (gets worse everytime I think about it) and put it towards Maddison. We will need at least another 20 goals to be in with a shout for CL.
‘’See Wilshere, Jack. Dominated a prime Barca midfield and then….well we all know what hapened next.’’
Injuries happened.. not sure what your point is
Odegaard, not capable of spontaneity? Honestly Diss, you are painful reading. You honestly have no clue what you are talking about.
https://youtu.be/SbvQXETSLZ8
NJ, I think Madrid is in desperate need of cash.
Diss, his goal vs Olympiacos was pretty spontaneous.
Diss Partly agree but, couldnt u see this as KSEs final attempt at righting the ship? Surely theyve been exposed To the idea a lot of the fanbase has had that things hVe been on downward trajectory since like 2010 or whatevs. Last few years exacerbated. I think hes starting to understand, esp after chelseas spend last summer, that he cant get away w this phoney investment w/out fans sinply burning down the emirates eventually. Plus theres the us v russia soft power thing which might have been the whole point back when. I do think we needed a d… Read more »
Zacharse, Maybe I mis-expressed what I meant. I don’t think that Ødegaard is physically slow, just that his style of play is slow. He rarely makes quick 1-2 with a teammates. Like TR7 wrote, he needs people around him to make the run. As Arsenal faces a lot of low bloc teams, the opportunity to run behind the defense is a lot more limited than at Real Sociedad. In contrast, ESR drives his teammates to make one touch pass and then run into space. So even against low bloc, he is more effective than Ødegaard. Where Ødegaard has the upper… Read more »
Given Arteta’s poor transfer choices, Pierre’s idea of giving our youth players a chance sounds fairly reasonable and tempting now. Very little downside and a lot of upside if a couple of youngsters grab their opportunities.
Given the choice of Maddison or Odegaard, I’d choose Odegaard without hesitation, I wouldn’t blink
NJ
Lotta chaff doing the rounds in the press that RM is unhappy with him, refused the previous assurance of first team, and now hes asked rm and his agent to get him to arsenal.
Do you buy it? Not sure i do because i rate him as a player, but clubs like that fuxkup all the time- chelsea w kdb and salah, us w gnabry, utd w pogba the list goes on
Pedro, I pray that you are right. The Varane cash infusion may have eased RM’s immediate financial problems, making our job harder. I guess it depends on which galactico, or how many, they are looking to buy. It would be madness not to take a chance with Odegaard for 40M or less. He may not be PL ready. But it isn’t as if we are on the verge of winning the league and we need an immediate impact. I don’t care if he will take another 15 games to bed in. We will see the benefits for the next five… Read more »
Yes ODEGAARD All day long over Maddison.
Why would Leicester want to let Maddison go?
Why does Maddison want to leave is it ROGERS.
MY MAIN CONCERN IS THAT HIP INJURY.
When he came back from injury last season he
Was walking round like he had a bolt through his
neck.?
Not for me.
But still desire that mid that can open boxes?
Val
That makes a bit more sense but i still cant quite get on board. Our hale end boys are more ready than foreigners to jump into the epl style play cuz theyve been in the championship etc. the fact that øde came in and after 2 subs was looking ready gives me encouragement, surely another 6 momths would fix whatever issue yr perceiving is my point
I like MO as a creative player but he is sooo slow and doesn’t work hard enough off the ball. I’d take Maddison over him 8 days a week
TR7, he was La Ligas 6th best dribbler when he was at Sociedad. He completed .06 more dribbles per game than peak Mesut Ozil. He’s in the 90th percentile for progressive carries. Think you are understating how good he is on the ball.
He’s an excellent player, has a really high ceiling, and I’ve no doubt he’d be an excellent signing.
Almunia, I like your choice as well. They are great actresses, but also intelligent actresses. As they aged, they have selected better roles. Contrary to many, they have not try to continue to play the ingénue. Nothing more ridiculous than a 60 years old actress trying to hide that she has reached 60 years old and play the 40 years old. Same applies to men, a geriatric Bruce Willis everyday bricklayer dating a 30 years old Miss Universe is not credible. They are also lucky, that society is less ageist than before. We are in an era where older actresses… Read more »
NJ, £35m isn’t going to make much of a dent in that near billion worth of debt. Think Perez was just happy he didn’t have to give out a 400k a week contract.
Odegaard. Maddisons injury record is a bit suspect. Plus with odegaard esr development will not stall nor will he be overplayed.
Speeding up play and working hard off the ball can be developed. Suspect injury record is something that sticks
Odegaard wouldn’t be my first choice but he’s a quality young player and I’d definitely take him.
He beat ESR in just about every metric, be it shot creating actions, penalty area passes, even dribbles. But apparently he’s not that good.
@G – It’s not difficult, there are no gurantees that talent will develop either because of injury OR because a player peaked earlier than his peers. How many ‘next greatest’ or ‘new Messi/Ronaldo’ have we seen fall by the wayside? Too many to mention.
Plus odegaard could end up costing almost 40% less
One more advantage with the likes of Auoar and Maddison is they can drop deep and play CM which will allow ESR to combine with Saka. With Odegaard in the side ESR is often forced to move wide.
Odegaard is perfect competition for esr
Esr wide is fine as that is needed in some games due to technical reasons, injury issues and workrate
Plus esr is really good on the left
Gbat, I think ESR is more fun to watch. He’s Roy of Rovers and Brits love a bit of that. Odegaard quite different, but I think the two compliment each other. Odegaard also quite good out wide, think he had some good times there. He’s 24 GA in 80app from the right.
Any cam we get will push esr wide if they play together. They will either swap during the game or esr will stay wide
My fear is that MO stifles ESR and pushes him wide where is isn’t as good and limits his game time playing at 10 where he is best. Maddison himself has said he sees himself as more of an 8 than a 10, which would mean playing alongside Partey behind ESR. That for me suggests Maddion over MO. Everyone was delighted last week when ESR signed his new deal, now some of those people want to bring in MO? I don’t get it.
Val,
It’s for the reasons you listed above that I love Maggie Smith, from Harry Potter to Downton Abbey, she can move seamlessly.
I hope our own Liam Neeson hears your message before he starts to become a figure of ridicule a la Wilis and unfortunately Nicholas Cage also.
Odegaard over Madison.
Posters complaining Odegaard is too slow……. not sure what Madison they’ve been watching ….. the Madison I watched is not quick.
Add his injuries the list of high wage demands , high transfer price, and iffy conduct ……….and the verdict is simple—stay away.
I thought Maddison had one bad injury?
Pedro
I agree that they do compliment each other. I like ESR on the left due to his style of play. He spends most his time out wide anyway if you look at his heat maps for each game. Odegaard brings more calm. All this talk of him not being good enough is ridiculous.
Remember Odegaard having a great game, orchestrating our come back from being down three goals against the Hammers. That was a fantastic performance, all action, skill and determination. MO is a class act and will only get better. I do like Maddison, but I don’t think we can afford the price Leicester will slap on him. At least we are connected to a number of quality options…..but please move Granit on and get a younger, mobile replacement. Bisouma, Aouar or Sanches…..
Tom
My sentiments exactly
Maddison is a really good player, but there’s a fair few warning signals around the player
It takes one bad injury…
Zacharse, Ødegaard best games were in the Europa League. I don’t remember a single premier league game that Ødegaard really dominated. In fact in the EPL, he was often anonymous and the team played better when ESR was reinstated in the middle. The premier league has some characteristics (faster, more lenient referees, never say die attitude pushed by the fans, more money so individual player quality of mid level team is higher than in other league, …) making adaptation more difficult. There are many very good players who failed to adapt to the EPL. Veron was a terrific player, but… Read more »
All of you are debating which would fit better in our first 11, as if first 11 is much of a meaningful concept nowadays.
Of course MO and ESR can fit in the same squad, and probably the same team. That kind of talent can be fluid and give the opposition nightmares.. Between tactics, rotations and injuries, there will be plenty of opportunities to accommodate both as the situation demands
Gbat, agree. The fact he’d played next to no football for 7 months before joining us also adds to the upside if we could get him over here. Really hope we buy though, can’t be dealing with another loan. Waste of coaching and minutes if he’s just going to go back there or get sold to a higher bidder.
Pedro, hip,knee, hamstrings
What are people basing Ode’s availability on? Who even says there’s a chance it happens? I’ve only seen some people reaching on Twitter but nothing concrete.
Valentin, he dominated Brighton so brutally Graham Potter called it out.
If we are spending money, then Maddison is the man. 2 footed prem experienced, more goals and assists. NO brainer. What folks see in Ode is beyond me. Its like Mike, suddenly Ode has a million excuses as to why he has not reached messi potential. I have said before, do not buy RM rejects. How has that worked? Ever? For any team? Ode is not a needle mover. All this stat stuff and graphs mean jack shit. We have seen this fella play for us and he did get games and game time. No dice for me. We will… Read more »
West Ham, Odegaard put on an absolute masterclass, bringing us back from 3 goals down, did it basically on his own.
Almunia, Nicholas Cage was a good actor, but now is just a figure of ridicule. I don’t know why he decided to crank his performances to level 11. It’s insane. But once on a while, he find a role where he turn it down to acceptable level. On the other hand, Bruce Willis is working for a paycheck. He is literally phoning his performance it is shocking. Remember the movie surrogates? In his latest movies, his performance is so wooden and past caring, that the producers could have use such mannequin with his face and him zooming or skyping his… Read more »
Pedro beat me to it, but thats prob the only game I saw Ode really affect.
“He beat ESR in just about every metric, be it shot creating actions, penalty area passes, even dribbles. But apparently he’s not that good.”
Lol. Every metric but the ones that actually count I guess.
Goals:
ESR 4 Total, 2 in PL
Odegaard 2 Total, 1 in PL
But I guess the great creative talent would have a better assists record right?
ESR 7 Total, 4 in PL
Odegaard 2 Total, 2 in PL
And that’s despite Odegaard pushing ESR out onto the left…
James Daniel Maddison is needed at the carpet ASAP! Great player. We need more British players around the place. 50M max though.
Andy, all the metrics count. ESR is an elite talent and so is Odegaard. They both offer up special talents we need if we’re going to do something next season.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pq5MlFC42dw
MO against West Ham.
Has Real made him available I ask again?
All I know is we are on the cusp of August and haven’t acquired any funds through player sales, we have brought in two players for depth. White is seemingly incoming but he is a Luiz replacement so that’s not really strengthening is it. Our squad looks more or less the same as the one in which we finished a dreadful season with, and I give this squad an outside chance at 6th at best.
Pedro, Ode wouldn’t be my first choice but I’m not saying that he’s no good. To be honest I don’t think that hyping him up this much will be helpful if we did sign him. That’s the problem these days, too much hype and then if he’s not a world beater from Day 1 the pressure is on.
Andy, he’s been a Madrid player since he was 15, he’s the captain of his country, I don’t think we need to worry about how hype will affect him
Left
Its rumor right now but we all know their finacial situation. Need to find the better part of 1bn pretty quickly
For me, the season hinges on whether Auba can remember that he is a professional footballer paid to put goals in the back of the net. He scored 10 for the whole season last year,. He scored the same amount in 13 appearances when he first joined then averaged 22 goals for the two seasons in between so we have to hope he can score at least 12 more this year and up to 15-20 more than he did last year. If we continue with the scoring rate from last year, that alone gives us 70+ goals which we’ll probably… Read more »
Pedro, Must have been a different WestHam games, because the 3 players I remember from that game were Lacazette, ESR and Pepe. Went to whoscored to check whether I forgot about his performance. It just confirmed my memory. Ødegaard was so brilliant that he had the worse rating from Lacazette, ESR, Pepe, Partey and Xhaka! Against Brighton, bar Tierney who was returning from an injury he has the worst Arsenal outfield player rating. Saka was unplayable on the day! you are Overhyping his performance hoping that we would fall for that narrative. Ødegaard is a decent player, but not the… Read more »
Pedro
I think Odegaard came in and did very well all considered. And he seems like the right type of personality we need too.
I’m interested to see how Arteta wants us to line up. He’s mentioned moving to a 433. What I think is obvious is he wants players with the ability to progress the ball and slip into other areas of the pitch seemlessly.
Val, go back and watch the game again. Or google ‘Odegaard vs West Ham’ and see how many headlines come up about his scintillating performance. He was so good against Brigthton, Arsenal made a video of his performance. He was given a 9 in most ratings and Graham potter said, “Arsenal’s attacking players, I thought Odegaard in particular was very good in the game and influential,” Honestly, if someone told you he was the worst Arsenal player in that game, you need to ditch them as a go-to reference when talking on here The very fact that you couldn’t ID… Read more »
Ode does not fit well in a 433
where will he play?
Leno
Chambers White Gab KT
TP Maddison Lokonga
Saka Auba ESR
I would not want Ode in our CM, he will get run over.
He could rotate with ESR
Breaking the Covid bubble attending a house party amongst many strangers while your team is in the midst of the all important top four race………and turning off your phone after having realized your manager is texting you to get your ass home immediately ………..and this is who you’d want at Arsenal for £70m on 200kpw?
Do people ever learn ?
Val, Odegaard was man of the match scoring 9 out of 10 for his performance. Partey scored 5.5
check it here:
https://paininthearsenal.com/2021/03/21/arsenal-vs-west-ham-player-ratings-4/2/
CAM: Martin Ødegaard – 9.0
Man of the Match (by a country mile). Our best player in the first half, and the second. He pressed better than anyone, tackled better than anyone bar Mari, and passed more accurately than any other Arsenal player. If you closed your eyes and watched this match, you might’ve been excused to think there were two of him, given the comparative amount his name was called. He’s such an excellent leader too. I don’t care that the outcome was a draw, he was unbeatable today.
I think people are seriously overestimating what Maddison brings to the table. He’s very good with the ball at his feet, but he only provided 5 league assists last season, 3 the season before. His 3 assists divided by minutes played calculate out as 0.1 assists per 90 minutes. Ozil averaged slightly better than 0.1 assist per 90 in his last two seasons at Arsenal. Odegaard had 6 league assists in his season at Real Sociedad. For £70m I’d expect a CAM to be averaging around 10 assists per season in league play.. Maddison has averaged 5 in his three… Read more »
….from West ham game….a quote from the analysis after the game…..
Tom skate and chips mmmmm you were the one that said that’s one of faves right? I will have some in your honour tonight
Yes please to odegard the kid is a talent and half the money of James M
Pedro, Brighton were already on holiday, so looking good against players who do not want to risk injuries is easier. From that game, the two Arsenal players who stood out for me were Pepe and Chambers. I remember thinking that Arteta had finally seen the light. Allowing Pepe to cut inside and having the right back Chambers to overlap and send cut back or crosses. I also remember thinking that I would rather take Chambers as right back rather than Bellerin or Cedric in that overlapping right back role. Ødegaard was decent, but nowhere as influencing that you are making… Read more »