ODEGAARD VS MADDISON

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Well, here we are again, mulling over players we’re not sure we have a chance with.

This morning, everyone is thrashing about in the water because the choice is apparently Odegaard vs Maddison.

Now, I still find the idea of James Maddison a bit nuts. £70m plus whatever a player of his calibre earns… feels a bit of a stretch. But what can’t be denied is he’d be an absolute powerhouse of a signing. We’re absolutely awful from dead-ball situations, he delivers massive amounts of chances from setpieces. He’s a brilliant binder on the pitch, he creates chances, progresses the ball well, and last season he started adding more goals to his game. He was the difference between Leicester being in the title-chasing pack, to finishing 5th again.

Now you’ll remember last week.

‘Oooohhhh, bit pricey, right?’

Skip forward to this morning. Martin Odegaard, our primary target at the start of the summer, is apparently going to be fishing for a move back to the carpet for about half the price.

‘He’s shit, no end product’

Now, a few things we need to be a little wary of here… the player loves Real Madrid. There was a moment a few years ago when Cesc Fabregas had the chance to come back to London because Wenger was sniffing around him. Now, I don’t know if I have this perfectly narrated… but United were circling and Wenger didn’t want him to go there. He waited, but in the end, Cesc used our interest to get assurances at Barca, he stayed another year, then moved to Chelsea after we’d secured Mesut Ozil.

Time is running out in the window, we cannot be allowing Martin to rattle the commitment cage, then find ourselves up shit creek without a second creator again.

On the Norwegians talent profile, please, get away from me with ‘he’s no good’ rubbish. That is such a drossy statement.

Things to remind yourself of:

He’s 22 years old. An absolute baby in terms of the position he’s playing. There is still a lot of space for him to grow as a player and a leader. Where was Jack Grealish at that age? In the Championship scoring 5 goals and landing 5 assists with Aston Villa with big questions over whether he had the right mentality to succeed. Where was James Maddison? With Norwich in the Championship about the bang. Where was Serge Gnabry? Bumming around in Premier League 2 about to get moved out of Arsenal to Germany as a massive flop that wasn’t right in the head.

Players get better. Odegaard is a very good player. He’d played about 14 minutes of football in 6 months before he joined the Premier League. It takes time to adapt to a new culture, to a new fitness regime, and a new style of coaching. He still delivered a good showing. 90th percentile for progressive carries, 86th percentile for progressive passes, 96th percentile for passes attempted, and 98th for passes completed… in a totally broken squad.

Give him a system that doesn’t require him to drop so deep to force things to happen with players like Ben White and Lokonga declogging our slow play and aversion to playing through the middle and you have someone that can really find a next level.

It’s also worth referencing his season with Sociedad where he had a better run into a team that wasn’t on its knees like Arsenal were at Christmas.

Odegaard created 62 chances that season when he was 20 years old. Last season, the biggest chance creator in La Liga was Messi with 77. He is so far from average it is painful. If we can’t land Maddison, then we wouldn’t go far wrong with Odegaard. If you want to land a glimpse of what he could offer us next season, rewatch the Brighton game.

Honestly, I cannot fathom some of the chatter that goes on… Maddison is too expensive, let’s unlock European talent. Odegaard? Nah, not enough end product. Pick a lane. You want now talent, it’ll cost £70m, you want to take a chance on talent, it’ll look like Odegaard. Neither player would be a bad option.

Young players get better, especially those adapting from foreign countries. People complaining about our lack of goals seem to forget that up until matchday 14, we scored under a goal a game (0.85 per game), after we added 2 creators (ESR/Odegaard), we were only outscored by United and City (1.79 per game). \

Imagine what both of them could do in a more balanced team with a captain that has his head in the game?

Right, that’s me done, see you in the comments.

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Bob N16

Rich, enjoyed the link, Charlie Patino another serious prospect.

Interested to know what Azeez will get up to this season – hopefully a loan where he gets game time!

Rich

Dissenter Liverpool signed Fabinho, he took 6 months or so to settle, and it did take Klopp some time to address the balance of his team Numerically we had space for a centre back, so it looks like we’re trying to address that area We don’t have space currently for another midfielder, though we have signed Lokonga, who looks like a medium term succession plan to Partey I agree we need to get a Xhaka upgrade, but sometimes things don’t move at a pace you need them too, and you need a bit of patience, instead of throwing your toys… Read more »

Mulerise14

Arsenal friendly with Watford live on .com

andy1886

1-0 good strike from Eddie.

Bob N16

Great goal from Eddie!

Crabregas

Eddie scoring a goal you never thought would be possible by him

Dissenter

Rich
“Liverpool signed Fabinho, he took 6 months or so to settle, and it did take Klopp some time to address the balance of his team”

Fabhino wasn’t at Liverpool when VVD was signed. At the time of VVD’s signing, Liverpool had a quality midfield with Emre Caan, Wijnaldum, Oxlade, Lallana, Milner and Henderson. They had a good midfield base to build upon. That midfield took them to a CL final.

Hope you can see that gulf in class compared to our midfield now.

Fixing the midfield is a higher priority than spending so much on xxxx

Mulerise14

1-0 to Arsenal (Nketia)

DM

Lol @ the goal we just conceded. Epitome Arsenal.

Chris

Reading up on the Patino buzz on the net today and it’s encouraging to hear we have another super talent along the lines of Wilshere coming through, he is set to progress steadily into the first team picture at Arsenal with no loans.

It’s exciting to know we have our own academy products continue to come through in conjunction with brining in the likes of Lokonga. This aspect seems to be going well at the club.

raptora

Passing the ball to Leno and Leno to a player under pressure.

I think I’ve watched this before.

Matt

Trust.The.Process

DUIFG

Reid’s nelson, may be a good player somewhere but he isn’t Arsenal quality. No end product getting disposed. This is your chance man

Champagne Charlie

Elneny is terrible, that simple. Basic, basic footballer

Leftside

How Elneny has made it here this long I’ll never know

Dissenter

How Elneny is not on the chopping block or on the exit queue, I will never know.

That squad position he occupies should be given to an academy player to get a few minutes here and there.

Matt

A sign of things to come again this season…

ARSENAL 1-1 WATFORD

34 Watford’s goal really reminds us of last season’s Arsenal.

The Gunners insist on playing out from the back but the Hornets’ pressing becomes unbearable.

Leno passes to Elneny inside the box but the Egypt international gets dispossessed and Zinckernagel beats Leno from close range

Dissenter

Hopefully, Lokonga gets to play the entire second half.

raptora

Same way Xhaka has.

One was bought as a starter and the other one as a squad player.

Both have been average at their job. Instead of playing them for 1 or 2 seasons, seeing how average they are and selling them, the suits at Arsenal decided to extend their contracts. Shambolic stuff.

Rich

Dissenter Fixing the midfield might be a higher priority, but sometimes you have to wait for the pieces to fall into place We’ve got space in our squad for a central defender, so it looks like we’re signing one We don’t currently have space for a central midfielder, so we need to wait to make that move We’ve signed Partey last summer, and we’ve signed Lokonga who so far looks like a player You just need to wait a couple of weeks for some exits, before Xhaka + Torreira, hopefully go, and we bring in a replacement But the reality… Read more »

Tom

Pepe takes them from the left side. Willian, Laca , and recently even Partey take them from the right side………….what makes anyone thing Maddison would be the automatic free kick taker at Arsenal?

Dissenter

Rich
Your optimism is infectious so I’m going to take my facemask off and inhale.

I just don’t like the fact that we bought a defender and now have to wait for all the stars to align perfectly to address the midfield properly.
Cheers. It’s always a pleasure to disagree with you.

Danny

Penalty

Dissenter

This referee is like 20 years old lol

Tom

“This referee is like 20 years old lol“

I think it’s Saka

Dissenter

The English summer!

Danny

End of July in London = pissing down!

Gentlebris

Madrid were outplayed by Chelsea over two legs, and were beaten in La Liga by a lot of small timers last term. I would even say if we played Madrid last term we could have won over two legs too.

Madrid want to rebuild.
Arsenal want to rebuild.

If they don’t want Odegaard as part of their process going forward, why should we?

Bob N16

Azeez left foot curler. ESR, Pepe, Laca, Partey all looking quality. The contrast when PEA and Willian, Elneny on the pitch striking!

Danny

That was fun, 4-1.
As already mentioned, why is Elneny still an Arsenal player? I reckon most of us are better than him!

Habesha Gooner

I would give Elneny’s minutes to Azeez.

Rich

Nketiah was bright in the first half, took his goal really well Arteta has to take a lot of blame for screwing up his development We should have sent him back out on loan after Leeds, if he’d have been out on loan for the past 18 months playing regularly, we’d currently be having a very different conversation about his future With 12 months left on his deal, he’ll likely leave, will be a great signing for someone, give him 12-24 months of consistent football, and he’ll develop into a top PL striker Thought Lokonga looked good again, really intelligent… Read more »

Sid

Nketiah proving he will be as good as Lautaro given equal minutes

Dissenter

Rich
“We should have sent him back out on loan after Leeds, if he’d have been out on loan for the past 18 months playing regularly, we’d currently be having a very different conversation about his future”

Tru dat
Same as AMN, who should have been sold last summer.

Ernest Reed

“Arteta has to take a lot of blame for screwing up his development”

You just know that Pierre will have something to say on Eddie and his handling, as well as yet another chime on his man Ozil for the gazillionth time – surprised he’s not getting residual payments from Mesut Inc. for the constant props.

Sid

The tactics at Leeds required a physically strong striker to bring others into play something Nketiah is Not

jwl

Premier league teams should take under 21 league more seriously. Make each team play their most promising youth against each other and they will develop just fine. It is too half assed at moment – some play for u21s, some go out on loan, and some make senior squad but only get a few minutes here and there. It makes no sense that our best youth have to go out on loan and play for some other team for a year or two.

Dissenter

Pedro
You doing that rapid response Arteta defense thing aging.
Rich didn’t suggest he would be forced out on loan.
He should have been sent away on a different loan after the recall from Leeds.

Champagne Charlie

Pedro

True, and I think it’s telling the guys that have been reluctant to go get minutes away from Arsenal are on the board for chopping.

Eddie, Nelson, AMN three players who haven’t ever demanded game time anywhere to better themselves. Then you have guys like Kane who went everywhere to get minutes and improve. You feel these lads like the Arsenal association irrespective of their development, pity.

Dissenter

Tavares and Lokonga look like good signings.

Rich

Pedro If it’s a case of them not wanting to go, then whoever is advising them, is advising them very badly Smith Rowe went from Huddersfield to taking the Arsenal No10 shirt with a massive pay rise, in less than 12 months Willock went from a £10 million footballer, to a £25 million footballer with a half a season at Newcastle, I’d imagine he’ll see a spike in his wages whatever happens this summer The examples of young players taking backward steps, in order to spring forward again are endless Nelson was considered to be on the same level as… Read more »

Dissenter

Arsenal have a responsibility to provide a good environment for promising academy products to succeed.
I would argue that they failed in this task when Willian was signed. At the time, many said he was going to block the path of the likes of Nelson, which is exactly what happened.
That said, Nelson should have sought an exit the first time a transfer window presented itself.

Ernest Reed

“ I think a bunch of the Hale Enders have an agent that coddles them and makes them feel like rockstars. Not sure they all make the best decisions.”

Absolutely Pedro, many are quite frankly too young to likely know what is best for their careers- a good agent looks after a players needs and that should also include equipping them for realities of life and football.

Champagne Charlie

Dissenter

That’s complete nonsense though, it’s not Arsenal’s duty to have no senior players at the football club and make game time for academy players a given.

We needed a Willian, the trouble is we needed much better than he delivered. Same for Pepe, Auba, and even Laca despite his good season. 4 senior attackers isn’t a plethora of talent in the way of young players.

Just look at the respective talent/numbers of the teams that finished top 4. None pander to youth players.

Ernest Reed

“I would argue that they failed in this task when Willian was signed.”

I believe that the signing of Willian was absolutely a deviation from the so-called plan. They likely saw themselves a better team than they actually were and are. A very costly deviation that will reverberate for a long time to come in many ways.

Rich

Pedro We obviously can’t force young players to take loans, but we can show them examples not just at Arsenal, but across the football spectrum of countless players who’ve gone out to develop at a lower level Willock, Nelson, Nketiah, will all have careers at the top level, if we’d managed their career path more astutely, that could have been at Arsenal, and saved us tens of millions in the process The next big one will be Balogun, unless we create some space for him, then there’s little value in him staying and sitting in the stands for a season… Read more »

Sid

Why should a player go out on loan when Willian is getting the minutes the player should be getting?

Ernest Reed

“We needed a Willian”

Willian is not a leader Charlie, never was and never will be. The team needs mature leadership, not Willian. For that kind of investment they could have done so so much better. This was a pure and obvious mistake.

Chris

Arteta and Zeus will just have to chalk the Willian disaster down to being a horrendous decision, and do everything practicable to offload him. If they can’t, just have him sitting on the bench or in the stands, and give his minutes to someone else. There is honestly no point in persevering with him at all.

Chris

Zeus – Edu.

Thorough

Seeing Arteta spend top money on an unknown White and about to shell out some more on Ramsdald just reminds me of Wenger. The e olodos go out of their ways to show they’re cleverer than us all. And it never ends well.

Champagne Charlie

Ernest

You just repeated what I said. Doesn’t change the fact we need/ed an excellent group of senior players for the right now.

Auba, Laca, Pepe, Willian is a dirt poor return on investment. They’re poor characters (except Laca), have inconsistent output or a lopsided skill-set, and don’t make a very good fit at all. But simply binning senior players and turning to the academy isn’t how Arsenal threatens top 4.

A Willian was 100% necessary, we just didn’t get the right player, the same applies at AM who we never even landed.

Dissenter

CC
The self sustaining model needs a a steady conveyor belt to channel youth to the first team. Even if those academy products don’t make it, they can still be sold off for profit.
Do you think we would have made 30 million+ for Iwobi, had we gotten a total waste like Willian ahead of him.

Davi

Missed the game – how was Azeez (aside from the goal)? Got high hopes for him

Dissenter

Willian wasn’t necessary.
We had just purchased Pepe who was going into his second season. His first season was definitely affected by having to play under three managers while settling into a new country, don’t even mention covid-19.

Pepe needed a proper season to determine whether he had it or not. Instead, they stupidly brought in a player that was a dud.

Champagne Charlie

Dissenter I don’t disagree, but that conveyor belt doesn’t need the conditions altered so the fresh talent can go into the first team unchallenged. Do that and you damage the immediate competitive ability of the team. Willian has been a total duff, but before he signed there was a clear and obvious need for a creative wide-man that could deliver through a whole season. The issue wasn’t we put a senior player ahead of the yute, but that the senior player was a shit talent ID. Like I say, rattle off the attacking options at the top 4 clubs and… Read more »

Up 4 grabs now

Evening,
City, utd, Chelsea, they can afford 70million on Madison, and 50 million on unproven centre backs, or 30 million on reserve keepers.

US and the rest of the league can’t afford to do that.
We’ve gone from a loan back of odegaard, to aooooar, to Madison, to maybe odegaard again.
Loan fee, 25 million, 70 or 40plus million.
All while potentially blowing 80million on a centreback and reserve keeper.

Oh and xhaka still on the books 8 weeks later.

Only at arsenal.

Chris

Mistakes are made often with transfers. They just shouldn’t be compounded by being persisted with.

William has already had too many minutes pre season, and by the looks of him, too many pizzas. He shouldn’t be blocking a route to the starting 11 for anyone else, last option back up if need be.

Sid

New post losers

Mulerise14

He was even rated above Miguel Azeez….

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