Ownership rumblings dampen

by .

Welcome to Tuesday!

The ownership rumours are still swirling, and though I was extremely wrong about the Super League 48 hours, I’m not sure I’ll be so off the mark about KSE switching out to Swedish ownership.

There have been a few rumours that well-connected people have heard Stan is willing to sell. I just can’t see that sort of info finding its way towards Arsenal fans. Stan doesn’t roll in crowds that leak to proles. JP Morgan doesn’t have an insider that runs @Gooner4564. If a deal was going to happen, it’d happen in silence.

More to the point, the Super League might be dead, but I think we’re all living in la la land if we believe that billionaires are going to accept what the fans think and move on. They tried a takeover with force, they failed, and they’ll be back with a subtler type of move… as always.

In a week of fan outrage about competition, Arsenal, Villareal and Roma are about to fight Manchester United for a Champions League spot.

Manchester United failed to make it out of their groups in the richest competition in the world, and they’ve been given a shot in a totally separate trophy just because. It’s outrageous, but it’s a parachute payment for rich clubs.

Even more amusing for me, a week after German clubs said no to the Super League, RB Leipzig lost their head coach to Bayern.

Football is full of hypocrisy.

Stan K lost the battle, but the war rages on, and if there was £500m there last week, there will be 12 billionaire owners chasing it down this week.

The bigger hope for Arsenal fans is that when Stan hands the keys to Josh in the future, the son sells it for an easier life on a yacht.

It’s quite interesting to read Arsenal fans fuss over Daniel Ek. We’re hunting out billionaires like we search out our coffee beans in Crouch End. The checklist is long and idealistic. We’re looking for organic, fair trade, farm assured, low carbon footprint, with packaging that can double as a mini-tote bag. Spotify giving musicians a bum deal is deeply unfair in a business that has been built on being deeply unfair since time began. The Arsenal community is probably the most creative football community out there, the fanbase in North London is a who’s who of culture, art, music and advertising… so clearly, as matches go, the guy treating musicians badly is going to have a section of the fanbase raging.

… but. Could be worse, right? Hard to make a billion being pleasant. You could be minimum wage merchants. You could have a fortune built off government subsidies from your Eton mates. We’ve had someone in accused of mafia-like crimes. Money repped by royalty with human rights abuses to their names are in abundance. We have folk that stole the wealth of their nations. There’s a bad bunch involved in football. Where do you stop with ownership? Even going back to the past, we’ve had diamond dealers, which doesn’t exactly have a rep for being pleasant.

It’s hard to be at one with football and avoid soiling your principles.

If we were to move past the clear issues. The thing that’s appealing about someone who works in tech is their approach to survive has to be innovative, future-facing, and fast. Add to that, bold.

I’ve worked with Spotify in the past. Firstly, you cannot get over the scale of a business like that. The complexities they deal with, the volume of things that have to be done, and the standard of person you have to hire to stay at the top.

Though the tech industry has its issues, you’d totally welcome the data-centric approach at Arsenal. You’d welcome the ruthless approach to finding the best talent and then finding the best model to allow it to flourish. The thing you’d be most excited is the competitive nature of the game, they’re all about rapid expansion and retention. To do that, they need the best product with the most innovative features.

If Arsenal is content, working with one of the most ruthlessly competitive distribtion platforms is probably not a bad partner to have. Outside just the technical stuff, Spotify is very, very attuned to the next generation of money spenders. When everyone in the world was saying the kids can’t concentrate for longer than 16 second, Spotify signed the guy making 3 hour podcasts as part of a doubling down of longform content.

Have my doubts you’d ever hear Daniel Ek say, ‘young people don’t watch football.’

Bigger picture: Imagine someone showing Arsenal the care Spotify shows to its product?

Talking of care, there’s a lot of chatter about the summer Arsenal are planning.

The best news post-Super League is that KSE is going to invest. Seems silly for me to mention that, but for Arsenal to sell, other clubs need to know we have money. Last summer, we were lowballed for good players because everyone could taste the blood of a bleeding P&L in the Colney water fountain. If clubs know we don’t need to see to spend, there will hopefully be less flapping around.

There is hope we could shift £100m worth of talent. Hector, Torriera, Guendouzi, Willock, Reiss and Eddie alone should bring in enough revenue for a reshape. There are also big earners dropping out the other side as well. David Luiz, Alex Lacazette, and the dregs of Mesut Ozil will be leaving the wage bill.

No doubt we still have some contract work to do, but it won’t be Auba levels like it was last season.

There’s also some work to do with the PR of this summer.

Are we shooting to win the Champions League in 2 years?

Or will the club have a smarter view on how they promote the vision?

We’ll have to see what the inward signings look like, my hope is we’re moving away from old men and building back to the top with a youthful zest.

Who knows whether that’ll happen, but one thing is clear, if they botch the way they communicate that, next season will be painful in the stadium.

There’s still some way to go in the season. We’re going to Spain tomorrow to see what Unai Emery’s new side looks like up close.

I’m dreading it. Not gonna lie. Chukwueze masterclass against Granit Xhaka. Unai Emery sliding 46 feet on his knees to lift his button-down shirt to reveal the message, ‘GOOD EBENING.’

Ugh, just did a bit of sick in my mouth.

The karmic forces are rounding on me.

At least I’m in America.

More on that game tomorrow. For now, let’s chat in the comments. x

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389 Responses to “Ownership rumblings dampen”

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  1. Kroenkephobe

    WOAB

    Nice one. I can strip an AK47 in 20 seconds..

    I was looking at it from the other side in a city (Addis Ababa) that was swarming with Russian and Cuban military. Hard to imagine now but Uncle Sam was doing the same thing in Mogadishu. The Americans went from saviours to sworn enemies in about 7 or 8 years. Trump like levels of PR blundering.
    The same proxy stand off thing was going on all over the world – Angola, South America, Asia. The only excitement lacking in the place was decent football.

    Ever played at altitude? I think it was about 9000 feet and a killer. They played on cinder pitches because all the grass would be eaten by sheep. Plus the balls tended to fly in the thin air so you spent most of the game watching it fly from one box to the other over everyone’s head. It’s a little known fact that route one football started on the upper plateaux of East Africa. 😉

  2. Tom

    “I’m dreading it. Not gonna lie. Chukwueze masterclass against Granit Xhaka. Unai Emery sliding 46 feet on his knees to lift his button-down shirt to reveal the message, ‘GOOD EBENING.’“

    Ha ha !

  3. Valentin

    The difference between the Kroenke and the Daniel Ek is that the Kroenke are asset accumulators while Ek is an asset grower. Accumulator are passive, reactive owner of assets. They buy the asset and let them grow slowly. That works well for businesses where competitions is limited and where the market grow organically. By virtue of being in a close, growing market even absent owner see growth.

    For example super market real estate, US Sport franchises. In those markets, As long as you do not make stupid move, you will still make money and your business will grow. However when competition starts to disrupt your business, you need to be agile and decisive to avoid being left behind.

    For example retail especially US mall, including Wallmart have been really slow to react to the customer behaviour change provoked by online shopping.

    The problem for the Kroenke is that they have invested in a market European Football where you can’t be a passive, reactive owner. The premier league is not a closed monopoly where gentleman decide among themselves where to go to exploit new markets. Arsenal will not be allowed to move. The Wimbledon owner tried unsuccessfully to move to Dublin. He was able to live to Milton Keynes, but decades later the club is still viewed as an external cyst.

    Football TV revenue have peaked. For next two rounds of negotiation they will plateau before falling down. Germany, Italy, France, Spain have experienced that. The premier league will as well at the next TV deal renewal.

    So overall commercial revenue will not grow as before. Some clubs will still grow because of their success in the pitch. But being mediocre or bad on the pitch will soon start a very wrong impact on commercial revenue of even big, historical clubs like Arsenal, ManUtd.

    When confronted with that double whammy caused by their incompetent management, the Kroenke will have to decide to either take the cash and run away or trying to fix themselves.

    I have no doubt that they will first try to remediate to the problems. However without a proper crack management team, they will fail. I am afraid, when I see and hear Josh I have vibe of Roman Roy, the third son of Logan Roy in the TV series Succession.

  4. Andy1886

    Incidentally, that £120m government loan is due to be repaid in May, that and our COVID related losses beg the question just how much ‘investment’ Stan is really willing to make. Could these rumours be just a rehash of the old ploy we used every season to drive ST sales?

  5. Danny

    If our players need a bit more motivation for Thursday game then all they’ll need to do is to look at Emery on the touch line and remember how crap he was, that should get their blood boiling.

  6. Alexanderhenry

    I reckon it’s a ten to one shot Stan sells, but there are positives to the bid even if it fails.

    If we don’t win the EL and next season isn’t significantly better than this season, fan unrest will grow and continue.

    This bid is high profile and involves ex arsenal players we all wish we still had.
    It’s not some mysterious sheikh or an oligarch like Usmanov.

  7. Tom

    Valentin
    The way Kroenke made his first billions is every real estate developer’s wet dream.

    Building shopping malls and surrounding infrastructure backed by Walmart’s might……… you literally couldn’t not make it.
    And since he is considered the smart one in the family, and talent usually skips a generation……god help Arsenal when Josh takes over fully and decides not to sell.

  8. Ishola70

    Come on Pedro he’s just a bum this Emery.

    Regarding teams falling down into the Europa League from Champions League it doesn’t necessarily have to be a “rich” club that enters the Europa League this way.

    As others have said looks like Elk is just looking for some extra publicity. His paid subscription product is actually over-rated. Problems with app itself crashing, too many times you don’t find the original song instead there will be a remix or live version instead and songs are taken off Spotify very regularly as well as added.

  9. AFC Forever

    LeedsGunner

    “AFC Forever @1346 Can I say that was one of the most interesting football-related comments that I’ve ever read on here. Fascinating! Thank you!”

    Thanks, mate. Cheers to everyone who was interested in the East Germans version of modern-day Oil State doping.

    Cards on the table, I have always been an avid hater of foreign football club ownership. Call me old-fashioned but the beauty of the game is the community spirit, history and the David vs Goliath stories that we all love so much. This is why the ESL was so unappealing and why we all have to be very careful what we wish for.

    The story about the Stasi, not only sponsoring but enforcing financial doping is quite scary. Whether we like it, football corrupts.

    VAR is corruption through bias, it’s as wrong as foreign owner financial doping. Things have to change, getting rid of the Kroenkes would be good but please don’t kid yourselves that’s all it needs. Unless someone gets rid of the corruption in the game, whether that be biased VAR officiating or financial doping, it will just be more of the same. And that not fair to a historical legend of a club that does not deserve the shit fired at it from everyone including its own fans.

    I don’t just want my club back. I want football back. As a boy band once sang, “I want it back for good.”

  10. Emiratesstroller

    Valentin

    The difference between Kroenke and Ek is much more than the comparative wealth of both
    parties.

    Ek’s wealth is dependent on his shareholding in Spotify. He is by all accounts a minority shareholder in this business. So to buy Arsenal he would need to sell those shares if he is
    allowed to do so or borrow money on their asset value.

    Kroenke by contrast has a large portfolio of wholly owned business assets plus a huge property portfolio. Whilst it is unclear how much he has borrowed on these assets I am
    pretty sure that he is not borrowed up to the eyeballs and perhaps also of importance his
    wife is a member of the Walmarts, which is reputed to be the world’s richest FAMILY.

    I don’t think that Kroenke is a particularly good club owner based on his track record, but
    he is not one who is going to be bullied by a bunch of fans into selling Arsenal.

    For him to be forced to sell the club he would need using Mafiosa language an “offer he cannot refuse”. It will need far bigger pockets than Ek has got.

  11. Mafuko

    I watched a bit of Villarreal vs Barca this past Sunday. Some observations:

    – we have an extra 2 days of rest
    – Villarreal might have a self destruct 🔘 just like Arsenal. Barca’s second goal.
    – if we work out our transitions well, press well, lots of space for runners, and will create chances
    – Xhaka CANNOT start at LB. Chukwueze will eat him alive.
    – Nketiah must not start.
    – let’s pray for Leno

  12. Pedro

    Mafuko, I saw that…

    Barca scored from a shocking backpass, and a long ball right through the heart of the team.

    Really hope we hit them with a powerful performance. Kill the tie. We’ll only do that if we unleash our power and pace crew.

  13. Ray+in+LA

    I would like an Arsenal Owner to also be an Arsenal fan — but failing that I would like an Arsenal owner who actually cared about the success of the team — Ek ticks those boxes, but I don’t see him having the financial clout to pull it off

    Also it doesn’t seem to be a difficult puzzle to find a way to have Saka, ESR, Pepe and Martinelli play at the same time

    Also, also agree that Xhaka is much more effective as Partey’s mid-field partner and LB needs careful thought — although there are reasonable options being discussed

  14. AFC Forever

    Emirates

    Kroenke is not selling, we have to suck it up. If he does, what makes any of us truly think Ek, Bek, Fek, Gek, Lek, Hek, Tek , Sek or fucking Heck will give us what we really want? Sure, I want an Arsenal fan as the owner but does he have the cojones to stand up to the shit he is going to get and stick his hand in his pocket?

    This ‘it’s all the Managers fault’ is why we will be also-rans. How many frigging Managers do we want until the truth smacks many of us between the eyes? We are fighting clubs whose owners want and crave success and will happily stick their hands into their own personal or state wealth to do that, irrespective of ‘rules’ or integrity. Real, Barca & Chelsea all owe around a billion quid – here, there, and fucking everywhere – that’s what it cost them. Man City has been ‘doped’ similarly by the Abu Dhabi Sheikhs and PSG too, the latter now contributing to EFA, four of the aforementioned in the CL semi-finals. How do you break into that? Sure, you’ll get the odd blip, perhaps a sensational transfer fee for one of your players or the home support that makes Anfield the hardest place to get a result (Pre-Covid) and brilliant player purchases or a dose of luck. Perhaps VAR won’t take 15 points from you but give you 15 points with its manipulation of decisions, somehow I doubt it.

    It’s bad enough we have to watch all the best players going to the richest clubs and then wonder why our players make so many individual mistakes. It’s relative. We have everything against us, the fact we are such a big club means the expectation doesn’t match reality and that creates huge pressure on the players and Manager, it’s a fucking cauldron of fire. Turn on the TV, the pundits hate us. I’m just waiting for another prat to say, “VAR was wrong but they even themselves out” We won’t beat VAR – not a chance in hell, not based on what I know about football; the Juventus Moggiopoli, PGMOL and the way football is operated. There is a pattern but nobody wants to see it. Instead, it’s the manager or the owner to blame not the fucked up way football and the suits have successfully taken the game away from the fans.

    Getting rid of Kroenke is a vanity project; we will all feel so much better about the club without him in charge. But will it really improve things? No, not until football is more honest and returns the integrity that was once part of the great game.

    We deserve to eat at the top table, it’s our rightful place and it has been stolen from us. In plain sight.

  15. Samir

    AFC Forever
    ‘But will it really improve things? No’

    Not true. The club has been run terribly for years. Having an owner that’s an Arsenal fan; watches all the matches…Listens to fans – of course we will improve.
    None of us are asking him to come in and pump money in. Look at Leicester.

  16. Ishola70

    AFC Forever

    This narrative now from you that it is all the others and Arsenal have not faulted themselves is a little too much.

    Arsenal have made errors so are not helping themselves as well as the actions of other clubs.

    In time we will probably see that appointing Arteta himself was yet another error from the club. Just one example from unfortunately too many examples.

  17. AFC Forever

    Samir

    “Not true. The club has been run terribly for years. Having an owner that’s an Arsenal fan; watches all the matches…Listens to fans – of course we will improve. None of us are asking him to come in and pump money in. Look at Leicester.”

    Yes, the club has been run terribly for years the under-investment is why we are where we are as much as the bad decisions. It has caught up with us.

    Leicester is a great story but they have none of the pressures or outside influences that affect huge clubs like Arsenal. The huge pressure before every game, for example. It’s a blip, a good blip because it’s nice to see it but a blip nonetheless. They won the league in a season when we should probably have won it, they gained from the fact they could select their best team every week because they had no midweek games. Fresh players, a week to prepare for the opposition and the fact their rivals were dropping points because of rotation and intensity of games. Yet, if Arsenal went out of Europe and the cups, a tsunami of criticism would follow with the pressure to go with it. So Leicester is different.

  18. Ishola70

    The Europa League is not as great a burden on the season as people like to suggest.

    Not when you can play weakened sides up to the straight knock out rounds.

    As Arsenal are clearly not good to qualify for europe/CL from the EPL atm rather than moan about it fans should see it as a blessing and some sort of chance of a lifeline as we this season.

  19. AFC Forever

    Ishola

    “This narrative now from you that it is all the others and Arsenal have not faulted themselves is a little too much”

    Mate, try understanding what you read. We are where we are for a number of reasons including the lack of investment over a too-long number of years, poor management and some pretty shoddy transfer dealings. However, I am trying to stop this incessant bollocks that all you have to do is change the Manager endlessly to get success. Fuck me, Spurs have been doing that for 60 odd years in an attempt to win their next title. Or 30 years to win an FA Cup.

    I genuinely believe we need major investment because others will be investing and we are playing catch up. I don’t like the fact that today you buy success, its disgusting but with financial doping you have to do something or fall further behind. Finishing 4th or 3rd isn’t good enough for fans or pundits, because of our history, so the pressure isn’t about getting us in the Cl, fans expect us to win the League and Champions League. That is the reality. And I cannot see that happening without a change to the way football is being operated. So I maintain the fact that Arsenal are of course partly responsible for the reason we are where we are but to be ignorant of the financial doping and other issues around football, as the ESL exposed, is contradictory.

  20. Luteo Guenreira

    If the Europa winner qualifies for Champions League through their standing in their domestic league, does the runner up get awarded a CL spot?

  21. Ishola70

    AFC Forever

    You are going over the top though.

    On another subject it always makes me laugh when fans back managers and players demands for less matches.

    Of course in any workplace or profession having to do less work for the same money you are on or more is a very nice option isn’t considering how much these players are on in the first place.

    These over-paid petals find it so taxing to take a couple of hours flight to play football midweek for which they are handsomely paid.

    My heart bleeds for them……..not.

  22. AFC Forever

    Ishola

    “The Europa League is not as great a burden on the season as people like to suggest”

    Yes it is. Every coach will tell you why. There is travel to factor in and preparation, all of which affect the preparation for the league game. Cup games too have to be factored in.

    You prepare for your next game. That means everything from tactics, provision for certain players, weaknesses to exploit, patterns of play, set pieces, corners etc. The players are worked on within the week leading up to the game on those things, it’s key. That is why coaches complain, not all about recovery. Tough to do that if you’ve got two games in seven days. Impossible if you play Thursday night, travel on a Friday and play Sunday. It’s not about resting 5 players mate, football isn’t just 11 names on a teamsheet.

  23. Ishola70

    Travel factor my arse.

    They travel luxury in first class and flights work out to a couple of hours on average.

    We are not still in the steam boat age.

  24. Emiratesstroller

    AFC Forever

    It should not be forgotten that Kroenke had CONTROL but not OWNERSHIP of Arsenal until
    2 seasons ago. Usmanov was in the background as a significant shareholder.

    When you do not own a business you are unlikely to make investment decisions in the team. That was the real problem at Arsenal until recent times, because we had an ageing board and no-one actually owning the club with a potential hostile shareholder on the sidelines without a seat on Board.

    There has been recent evidence that since Kroenke owns the club that he is more willing to
    make club investment decisions. Last summer he provided the finance to buy Partey.

    As we know all EPL clubs are under financial pressure during the Covid Crisis, but financial
    decisions have been taken to lower financial risk.

    The ESL project was a mistake because it was half baked and has stirred up a hornets nest
    as well as criticism directed at the club owners.

    I don’t think that there is a remote chance of Kroenke selling to Ek. He has a track record of
    being a stubborn man and not someone who sells assets.

    My sixth sense is that Arsenal will be provided this summer with a decent budget to buy players. Part of this budget will come from sales, but additional funds will be made available
    if required by Kroenke.

    If we fail to qualify next season for Europe there will be focus on finishing in top 4 in EPL and whichever way it goes we need a team/squad which is fit for purpose.

  25. AFC Forever

    Ishola

    “Of course in any workplace or profession having to do less work for the same money you are on or more is a very nice option isn’t considering how much these players are on in the first place. These over-paid petals find it so taxing to take a couple of hours flight to play football midweek for which they are handsomely paid. My heart bleeds for them……..not”

    My god, you clearly don’t understand football mate. I can’t help you with that. A different point about being overpaid, they are and they really are a bunch of virtue signalling snowflakes. I won’t argue with you.

    But you need to understand about the science, the game preparation, tactics, set-pieces the whole preparation – that is the point about midweek games. I played semi-pro for years and that was pretty intense, plus I had a day job but for you to think midweek games, recovery, tactics or game preparation have no impact on performances is like saying the earth is flat. Bloody hell mate, do you think it’s just about selecting 11 players and pinning it to the wall?

  26. Ishola70

    Let’s be clear

    We are not failing in the EPL primarily because of being in the Europa League simultaneously.

    We are failing because we have a rookie coach who has made some ropey decisions, tactics and overallfootball look to be not adventurous enough plus baggage still hanging around before Arteta although some of that has been discarded.

  27. AFC Forever

    Ishola

    “It’s no good moaning about a competition where we could all be jumping around in a few weeks for winning including yourself”.

    Ha ha. Where did I complain about the Europa League? I said Leicester not having any midweek games and being able to prepare and play their best players every week was the main reason they won the league. Now you are twisting. Behave mate.

  28. AFC Forever

    Ishola, I give up mate. You seem completely unable or unwilling to understand anything. If you don’t get something it’s best to back off. Trying to twist things or make ridiculous claims is really not the way to debate.

  29. AFC Forever

    Emirates

    “I don’t think that there is a remote chance of Kroenke selling to Ek. He has a track record of being a stubborn man and not someone who sells assets. My sixth sense is that Arsenal will be provided this summer with a decent budget to buy players. Part of this budget will come from sales, but additional funds will be made available if required by Kroenke”.

    Yes, he won’t sell. It will be interesting to see if he is stung into action by the fans or whether he just doesn’t care. Midwest was quite dismissive because his record in investing in US Sports isn’t great. There is a massive difference in having an owner who has a desire to be successful to one who uses the club as an investment. I hoope you are right.

  30. Dissenter

    “Getting rid of Kroenke is a vanity project; we will all feel so much better about the club without him in charge. But will it really improve things? No, not until football is more honest and returns the integrity that was once part of the great game.”

    Thanks for that bit of clear headed thinking.
    Kroenke isn’t going to sell because he does not need to sell.
    His wife has more money than him so why would he divest his ownership of one of Europe’s most famous clubs?
    Arsenal is the most treasured sports organization he owns, he’s not going anywhere.

    There are bigger issues that people aren’t talking about.

  31. Thank you and goodnight

    Quite frankly I hope he doesn’t invest as we’ll only get foisted with shit players as Arteta is clueless on talent. The fact he signed off for Runnarson should tell you all you need to know about Arteta. Easily one of our worst signings ever. Jesus I thought almunia was shit, but compared to Runnarson he is Lev Yashin

  32. Kegunner

    Kroenke should immerse himself more in the club. Josh can probably take a year looking closely at the club structure probably spend time with likes of Pat Rice, Steve Bould, Keown. People who are level headed and been around the club for a long time. No more hollywood hires. Deal with proven hires that have the fortitude to turn around the ship.

    Arsenal needs mental courage at the moment. No more Willian or Luiz type quick fixes. No more banishing senior team players. No more throwing away mascots.

    Arsenal fans no longer cheer the team. We have been reduced to managers with stories of finances, player revolts etc.

  33. AFC Forever

    Dissenter

    “Thanks for that bit of clear-headed thinking. Kroenke isn’t going to sell because he does not need to sell. Arsenal is the most treasured sports organization he owns, he’s not going anywhere.”

    As much as I am hardly a Kroenke fan or a supporter of any kind of foreign investment, the reality is Arsenal changing manager is going to be like sticking a plaster over a broken leg. In fifty-odd years of supporting and playing football, I really don’t like the place it is in now. From FIFA giving the World Cup to Qatar, Qatar buying PSG, UAE buying Man City, English clubs signing up to the ESL, 4 financially doped clubs in the CL semi-final and the complete up-fuck of VAR; I am starting to fall out of love with the game.

  34. AFC Forever

    KEgunner

    “Kroenke should immerse himself more in the club. Josh can probably take a year looking closely at the club structure probably spend time with likes of Pat Rice, Steve Bould, Keown”

    Great comment. If the ESL has shown us anything it is how out of touch the top echelons of the club are. Time to change the culture by bringing in true Arsenal men. Not the wet weekends we get as pundits, proper men with cojones and who actually care. Keown certainly, anyone who wants to chin Van Nistehorse is right in my book.

  35. Thank you and goodnight

    @AFC

    it was a mans game when I was growing up, unlike today. Not only is football corrupt as you rightly pointed out, I also hate the fucking cheating on the pitch with players rolling around like they’ve been machine gunned. Hate cheats

  36. Useroz

    Among what Lehmann said about relative merits of different ownership structures especially on the possibility of PL clubs adopting the German model, this is what in my view is most relevant to Arsenal at the moment …

    “..normally bright people make good decisions”
    …”

    How true is that! We here talk regularly about how inexperienced Arsenal ownership and management is, from MD, DoF, to manager, and critique the cascade of sub-par to poor decisions and that they continue to be made by the trio.

    Following the ESL saga, many blogs and posters alike reiterate, pinpoint and contrast the apparent inadequacy with our investments, and most arrive at the conclusion that it’s not just the absolute dollar amount available but how the money was managed, and where and on whom (players) it’s spent.

    In short, precious resources have been squandered and would likely so unless the trio could be suitably replaced at the earliest opportunity.

    Let’s say the media is right that we’d offload a half dozen or more players to raise over a 100m so that Edu and Arteta could spend in the next TW. Would you trust them with that 100m? For once. I wish Wenger were still in charge because , as Dein prominently shared in his days, Wenger would hand the 100m straight back!!

  37. Kroenkephobe

    Cards on the table, I have always been an avid hater of foreign football club ownership.

    AFCF
    Some of the homespun ones have also left bit to be desired. Doug Ellis, Peter Swales,racist Ronnie Noades, Ken Bates, Alan Sugar, Peter Ridsdale and the Hill Woods. Not an exhaustive list but some pretty major cunts there…

  38. Guns of SF

    Rich, that could be just gamesmanship….
    Money talks… end of the day.
    Worst case, Stan does not sell but now a fire might be lit under his fat ass, to invest in the team.

    Just drop 250M this summer, of his own cash, and the fans will be quiet like a mouse for a entire season…

  39. azed

    I called Arteta winning Europa a long time ago but it would be hilarious if Emery is the one that pushes Pedro into the #ArtetaOut camp.

    Question for Grovers

    Would Pedro be objective if we are knocked out by Villareal or would Pedro’s ego takeover?

  40. Guns of SF

    Pedro,

    Josh knows there are leakers within the club. so he puts this out, so it drives up the price of the team…. its unlikely he would tell the staff, well “were thinking about it”

    KSE wants the most $, clearly, and chances are they know that Ek is serious about buying… so they want to drive up the price..

    I would not be surprised in late summer, to see this go through if it does…..

  41. Thank you and goodnight

    @Pedro

    Pedro if we had a good manager I’m all got kroenke investing. But if he’s going to give that prick money to foist more Willians and Runnarson’s on us on vastly inflated wages , then yes, I would rather kroenke doesn’t invest till we get a real manager as opposed to a guy pretending to be a manager. Sorry if it hurts thet I think along with the kroenkes, Arteta is the worst thing to happen to Arsenal. Sorry you backed the wrong horse, the majority of us can see the donkey that he is

  42. Pedro

    TYAG, your lame opinion on what constitutes good coaching in 2021 doesn’t hurt my feelings, I can assure you. Arteta on the election list of coaches for next season, let’s hope they don’t see your posts.

  43. Bertie Mee

    Flip back to Arsenal 2 Southampton 2 just before we fired Emery .
    The worst defensive performance I’ve ever seen from Arsenal ( that shows how bad it was )
    A Southampton fan on the tube said afterwards that they could have scored ten . He was nor exaggerating. That is the coach we are facing on Thursday

  44. Ray+in+LA

    AFC Forever
    April 27, 2021 17:08:30

    Agree with most of what you say, but no matter how uneven the financial playing field is there is no excuse for not making the best Arsenal that we can with the current resources — optimising club Infrastructure, scouting, coaching, use of data, the medical-side, sport psychology, etc., etc.

    At the moment the reference points shouldn’t be outside the club — it is building a better Arsenal from the inside

  45. Karsa

    I don’t get people comparing a rookie manager with managers with 10 years experience or more.

    There are very, very few people who are at the top of their game from day one in any situation.

    Whether Arsenal should have hired a rookie manager is a different debate.

  46. Pedro

    Harsh criticism for a rookie in a pandemic year in which Liverpool under are in 6th position and Spurs have sacked Mourinho.

  47. Valentin

    Pedro,

    You mean the election list for coaches dismissed for poor result?
    You need to wake up from that brainwashing, endoctrinement, cult of Arteta.
    He may be a good technical coach, but he is a truly awful manager.
    He is like the soldier who learnt to shoot on immobile cardboard and now can’t hit a running target. The guy may even win an Olympic gold medal, but on the battle field he is useless.
    That’s Arteta, technically maybe brilliant, but unable to adapt to unexpected challenge, terrible man management, blind reliance on senior players over talent, does not understand the concept of meritocracy, …

  48. Pedro

    Valentin, we’ll see. You’re just doubling down on a position you had from last year.

    You talk a good business game, yet expect perfection in year one… which no one expects when they promote someone.

    He’s a terrible manager, but all these kids are putting their careers in his hands.

    If we have a good 10 days, we’re in Arteta’s second final. A one-off chance to win trophy two.

    If that happens, not sure many will be listening to your duff soldier stories.

    It’s been a rough season at a basket case club. Jose couldn’t do it. Klopp has tanked. Chelsea had to sack a manager. Might be worth saving defacto verdicts for next season.

  49. Bertie Mee

    Worry not Pedro
    Remember Arsenal 2 Southampton 2 just before we fired Emery.
    A Saints fan said he was gutted they didn’t score ten as our defence was so bad .
    He was not exaggerating . Unai Emery ‘ organised’ that defence

  50. Thank you and goodnight

    Chelsea and Spurs sacked a manager as they didn’t like what they were seeing. Both Lampard and mourinho had same time as Arteta , but they fucked up and were rightly sacked, unlike our club who seem to accept mediocrity as the norm

  51. AFC Forever

    Kroenkephobe

    “Some of the homespun ones have also left a bit to be desired. Doug Ellis, Peter Swales, racist Ronnie Noades, Ken Bates, Alan Sugar, Peter Ridsdale and the Hill Woods. Not an exhaustive list but some pretty major cunts there…”

    True but I would sooner have a British investor. To be fair to Ridsdale, he had a proper heads gone moment but he gambled and lost. One minute they were in with a chance of winning the CL, the next Leeds spiralled down the divisions – a warning to everyone really. I think we all agree the game belongs to the fans but we come a very poor second.

    As for the Champions League semi-finals this season, if ever you needed a warning of where we are going to end up that last 4 is it. Abu Dhabi have invested around 1.5 billion in Man City, Qatar around 1.2 bn in PSG. Abramovich (Fordstam) have invested around 1.15bn in Chelsea, which is owed to Fordstam and Real Madrid owe 0.9bn, with most of that short term. Scary.

  52. Avi

    Harsh criticism for a rookie in a pandemic year in which Liverpool under are in 6th position and Spurs have sacked Mourinho.”

    Any chance its same pandemic year Big Dave Moyes(lol) has West ham flying, Liecester putting 16+points between us, United and Chavs making us look absolutely amateurs???

    If your hero Arteta fails to win the ECL he should absolutely get sacked, I mean the only reason he won’t will be solely based on the fact we’re no longer a big club and nobody takes us serious anymore.

  53. AFC Forever

    Bertie mee

    People have short memories. Arteta had to come in and fix the worst Arsenal defence I have ever seen. Against transition, our defensive shape was non-existent and I think it was the Watford game where we conceded something like 30 odd attempts on our goal. Games were turning into the Alomo. After he went we heard stories about confusing tactics and players not understanding him, to which we all nodded our agreement. He is clearly a very good Manager in Spain but he was a disaster for us. We were getting worse but the biggest problem was without the ball. I wish him all the best because he’s a decent bloke but fuck my Auntie with a loofa, he was a defensive disaster zone. As usual, it’s all a narrative of hindsight and very selective memory.

  54. Pedro

    Avi, let’s see where Moyes is next season when he has Europe to deal with.

    Again, big club mentality is not to sack coaches during a massive pandemic in a transition, with no money.

    ‘No one takes us seriously’ is such a nonsense statement as well.

  55. Pedro

    Banter club? Honestly. Won an FA Cup final last season and we’re two games away from a Europa League final, massively improved the defence and team structure, and we’ve not had a top 6 record like we have now in a very long time.

    Hardly banter material.

    Shit season, sure. But we’re not banter.

  56. englandsbest

    Thanks, Pedro, for a marvellous mix of cynicism and idealism. The way of the world. For fans, football is a wormhole into a nicer one.

    Better the devil you know. I’m starting to believe Stan has his good points. He believes Arsenal should be self-sustaining, pay its way. So do I. That was always the Arsenal philosophy. His mistake was not to break the rule early on when the Club struggled to pay the stadium debt.

    Yes, he is an absentee owner, yes he’s been negligent. But, on the other hand, I like his ‘hands-off’ policy provided the people he hires to run the Club do it properly. Wenger and Gazidis failed in that.
    Arteta is still clearing up the mess they left behind.

    This time he hired the right man for the job. And I’d back Arteta against Emery anytime.

  57. Thank you and goodnight

    Bayern Munich pissed themselves laughing when paired with us 8 odd years ago. They were in hysterics. Not really taking us ‘seriously’ is it. We’ve been a Mickey Mouse club for last 10 years under the kroenkes. We might have a shiny new stadium, but let’s be honest with ourselves, we’re not a big club at all

  58. AFC Forever

    We’re not laughed at. My football whatsapp group is quite large, over 100 of us on there all members of the club I am involved in. Fans of all the big clubs, probably largest share is West Ham. They don’t take the piss out of Arsenal. Banter sure but it’s a respected club. They take the piss out of the fans, especially AFTV they banter us as self-entitled but they respect us because we have walked the talk. None like Spurs and the banter the last two weeks is about them sacking another manager.

    What some of you who like to shit on Arsenal forget, is we are a genuinely big club. I can’t help you for the way you talk about the club or the opinions you hold or if you hang on every word of the pundits or the clickbait media, that’s your choice. I won’t be laughing like some of you if we lose to Villareal or pretend they are an easy team if we win.

  59. Pedro

    Not a big club?

    3 years ago Usmanov offered 2 billion, a Qatari Royal consortium offered the same, and as we speak, Daniel Ek is trying to buy us.

    We are not just big, we are huge.

  60. Kroenkephobe

    Comparing Arteta to Emery is absurd. MA needs to be compared to GG, Herbert Chapman, Bertie Mee, first decade Wenger and Don Howe. At the moment, he is nowhere near any of those, and it is questionable where he ranks in relation to Terry N, Rioch, second decade Wenger and his compatriot (if you absolutely must). Billy Wright anyone?

  61. Avi

    Arsenal was the most derided club amidst the ESL fracas, more than enough of fans supporting other teams were like “WTF”

    Arsenal should absolutely be nowhere near such elite t) gathering, they we’re simply making the number and have been anything but ‘super ‘ for years.

  62. Peckobill

    Wenger stayed way too long but his second decade still shits all over arteta . Don’t think he’d have us sitting in 10th but even if he did at least we’d probably be playing attractive football . Now we got 10th and dire football, you don’t mind dire so much if we are competitive.
    Anyways last chance saloon on Thursday for arteta by my reckoning or a next season emirates with fans is going to be brutal

  63. Pedro

    K, pretty sure most of our ex-managers would say a trophy inside 6 months was good going. He could make it two in two season if things drop for us.

    This is GG on Arteta.

    “They have got problems, but they can rectify them with three players,”

    “Arteta is doing a very good job. But while he has improved the players, he has only improved them to a certain point.

    “They have got to have natural ability to get to the next level.

    “Arsenal have outstanding young players, but they need help. Quality players around them to show them the way.

    “They need to go out and buy two or three players, each costing £75m to £100m.”

  64. Pedro

    Avi, again, really reads like you hate the club.

    Arsenal should be more derided that Spurs? Are you kidding me?

    We’re two games away from our 2nd European final in 3 years in our worst run as a club and we won another trophy last season.

    There’s a table doing the rounds that we are the most successful team in England over 100 years.

    If there’s a Super League, based on big clubs, then we absolutely should be there.

  65. Avi

    Wouldn’t give a penny more to Arteta, he’s got shocking eyes for talent

    Unforgivable that he sold the best keeper in the league for peanuts to keep Leno who is absolutely a clown.

  66. Pedro

    TYAG,

    Arteta doesn’t spend the money, that is Edu’s job.

    We’ve signed Martinelli and Saka to longterm deals. Brought in Odegaard. Signed Gabriel and Mari. Gone big on Thomas Partey. Those are good vibe players.

  67. Rich

    Pedro if Arteta doesn’t spend the money because it’s Edu’s job?

    Then why did you call Emery weak for not demanding more responsibility?

    But Arteta who does have clout, isn’t responsible?

  68. Thorough

    AFC Forever
    Bertie meePeople have short memories. Arteta had to come in and fix the worst Arsenal defence I have ever seen

    And destroyed one of the most productive attacks in the process.

  69. Avi

    Pedro
    Hate the club? Lol you really do not take too well a more realistic view on the present position of the club do you

    Face facts mate, Chelsea are on the brink of winning another Champions League trophy with a manager that’s been there for three months. It makes you wonder where we could’ve been had we hired a competent manager.

    This fraud Arteta needs to be sacked as soon as the season is over. And if he needs money to bring in the right players to the team so he can play his system, then he came to the wrong ****ing club ffs.

    I see a lot of Arsenal fans online talking about how we need to sign big name players like Grealish, Mbappe, Haaland, etc. in order to succeed. I wonder if these fans are trolling or being serious. We are currently a midtable club, sitting at 10th place in the league. Even if we could afford these players, what makes you think these world class players would want to come here? They have their sights set on much greater clubs in Europe.

    You don’t need to spend $50 million on one player in order to have a great creative player (example: Martinelli only costed us $6 million). I’m sure there are players out there who are much more creative than our current squad, don’t have the popularity of a Mbappe or a Haaland, and cost less than $50 million. We need to stick to the model that we used back in the day: buy players who aren’t that expensive/popular, yet are still creative and will add something to the team.

    You backed the wrong horse Pedro I completely get its such a hard pill to swallow

  70. Pedro

    Avi, giving me lessons on how amazing it is that a top 4 side that spent 250m last summer are good and that’s an indictment on Arsenal is quite something.

  71. Mb

    *grabs popcorn*

    Frankly I’m Arteta Out purely because of the way he is handling Pepe, Willian and pushing Partey on the pitch when he was lumping.

    But you can’t change the fact that VAR and individual errors have cost us the most this season. Auba has gone missing too.

    One single season is not enough to judge a coach and his FA cup win surely gave him another year to apply his philosophy.

    Real test will begin with next season. Anywhere near 10th is a bye-bye for Arteta, Emery, Wenger whoever the fuck it it.

    We are a big club.

  72. Up 4 grabs now

    Good ebening,

    Cups are great but it’s our league form since emery got the boot that’s the problem.
    Defence was poor in his last game against Southampton.
    It had a back four of bellerin, luiz, Nick the Greek, and a half fit Tierney. I’m not surprised Southampton had quite a few attempts at goal.

    Our tops six record has improved, it’s a shame it’s poor now against the mid table teams!

    I hope we go to town on Emery on Thursday and win the tie in the first leg, but Pedro if it goes the other way and arteta gets an Emery masterclass you better have your arteta out banner ready to fly over the stadium!

  73. Rich

    Chelsea are on the brink of winning the CL with a manager that’s been there 3 months?

    Tuchel didn’t qualify for the CL, and he didn’t qualify from the group stages

    His team did knock out Atletico + Porto

    But I wouldn’t call being on the brink of winning the CL, being 2 legs against Real Madrid, and then potentially playing Man City or PSG in the final, being on the brink

    Using your analogy you could say Arteta is on the brink of winning the Europa, even though we’ve got a double header against Villarreal, and if we get through, we’d have a one off game against either United or Roma

    But it would be a really hard sell

  74. Thank you and goodnight

    @ Pedro

    Yes Pedro, but that 259 million spent was looking bad value for money under frank. Under Tuchel they look like a club that could possibly challenge for the title next year. That’s the difference a real manager can make to a team. A good coach/ manager gives you that extra 10% . That’s why I don’t want kroenke to give Arteta any money to spend as I genuinely believe it will make no difference as Arteta himself hasn’t a clue, and I’m worried we’ll be left with more average players on big wages. Ffs we’re still paying 80% of Ozil ‘s wages

  75. Rich

    Pedro

    Emery got 70 points, and we scored 73 goals, he also reached a Europa League final, he got sacked when we were 5 points off 4th, with a squad you told me should 100% be securing third

    Would be nice if you just admitted you read the situation wrong

  76. Avi

    WengerEagle

    Were you not championing Werner as some beastly striker last summer? Could be wrong though but he’s been a disaster since the joined Chavs

  77. Avi

    Weagle

    Werner isn’t made for the EPL, if Chavs get a better striker next summer I think he’ll be off loaded, too light weight and erratic

  78. Foxy

    Why are Chelsea making a success of a back 3 when we could not, looks like a few key reasons.

    1. Mobility – the team are full of running with no Xhakas or Lacas plodding around.
    2. Flexibility of formation. we gained defensive stability but always seemed to have a hole between the two MFs and attack = no goals. Chelsea seem to have Kante moving foward when they are in attack to almost the no 10 position and often one of the front 3 will will drop back so they look like a 5 1 2 2 at times = no gaps and fluid link up

  79. MidwestGun

    Hey y’all how’s it goin…today? Pulisic is da man.. still sickens me.. he signed for Chelski.. speaking of which if Chelski win the CL … It will make me physically ill..

    It can’t happen.. or it’s official… football Armageddan is here.

  80. WengerEagle

    TYAG/Samesong

    He’s gone from being a decent player last season to being Chelsea’s best and a top 10 player in the league this year.

    Really do rate him that highly. He should walk into the England XI for the Euros.

  81. Avi

    Weagle

    You’re a decent poster on your day but you’ve had some shockers over the years as well, remember you also creaming yourself over Harvetz.. You do like those skinny, grumpy but flair players don’t you. Lol

  82. WengerEagle

    Avi

    Expect the same, Roman is ruthless.

    Morata was binned after a season and a half and they spent much more on him.

    If they get Haaland I would make them favourites for the league, he makes that vast a difference.

  83. Avi

    But the way some people were talking about Werner, I expected more. Jesus some people were comparing him ,favourably , to Haaland. No where near his level”

    True just called one out on here as well, the bundesliga is a shocking league to evaluate a talent on

  84. MidwestGun

    I don’ think the Bundeliga is a shocking league to evaluate talent.. You can tell who the good players are… Serie A is a shocking League to evaluate talent.

  85. WengerEagle

    Avi

    Nope that is bollocks, I have always been consistent around Havertz on here. Wasn’t really a fan and said that Chelsea massively overpaid.

    Too lightweight and one-paced.

    And like I said, what did you used to post under so I can pick apart your scouting reports?