WHAT CLUBS ARE SAYING PRIVATELY (GRIM) + WHAT CAN BE DONE (LONG READ)

by .

The biggest heist in football history is underway and the more you look at it, the more you speak to people in the game, the more you realise the reason there’s no PR counter-point is the clubs don’t need one.

It’s happening. You’ll have to suck it up. There are very few options available to anyone.

Rich people get away with bad things because money solves most problems. All manner of shady owners get a pass from fans if there’s an investment on the pitch. This Super League is the future clubs have been looking at since the David Dein era. The big owners hope you’ll forget when you see the riches it reaps on your team every season.

I spent most of my day speaking to people in the game. Most are thinking about this very differently to you or I. They see this as an inevitable next step in a game that hasn’t been for the people for 30 years. The thread of conversations generally had three points.

  1. Clubs don’t make much money out of the game.
  2. The pandemic fucked their average business models and they want control back.
  3. UEFA has massively under-valued the value of the ‘content’ the big clubs produce, this is the consequence of their negligence

The big owners don’t make any money from it. Everything is hoovered up in wages and average business models. You are doing well if you turn a profit. Those profits are pitiful by big biz standards.

The pandemic exacerbated this issue. No fans. No say over TV rights. No control over schedules. No ability to move fixtures. No control over survival. It was a nightmare that hit everyone hard.

The big push is that they feel their content is massively undervalued. Their numbers show that their ‘brands’ drive the most eyeballs and value. They are business people who care about nothing else bar profit and growth, and to their minds, the piece of pie they are getting isn’t big enough.

UEFA haven’t helped themselves. Look at the money they’ve left on the table.

Champions League winner gets £74m (if they win all their games)

Just the signing on fee for the Super League is £310m.

Minimum prize money each season is £130m up to £213m.

Clubs have to win 6 Champions League medals to make the cash delivered in year one of Super League.

Gary Neville, fan appointed slayer of this idea, to people in football, is a laughing stock. The guy that played for the richest club in England, lecturing them whilst he financially dopes a League 2 club, doesn’t fly with them.

The notion of competition to a lot of people I spoke to is also in question. How have things worked over the last decade in Italy, Greece, France, Germany and Spain? In the European Cup right now, 97% of the tournaments have been won by founding members. Is the competition good content before the quarter-finals?

It’s all quite elitist and grim to listen to if you are a romantic like most people who read blogs and listen to podcasts are.

However, as Matt on our latest pod points out (below). How did you feel after we became the best club in Europe at Highbury, only to have our hopes and dreams dashed by Russian blood money? We weren’t left behind based on merit, it was because billionaire backers swept the board in the Premier League and financially doped.

UEFA was supposed to rescue Arsenal and they didn’t. FFP was not the great hope Ivan G promised. Now they’ve been fucked because they let this get out of control.

There is also a belief that this deal is going to work out better for everyone. A stronger Premier League, because we have even better players, will make the Premier League even more appealing. That’ll raise the revenue of other teams in our collective bargain. It’ll also create a load more tax, that British clubs pay, to support a better grassroots system.

This also won’t be the last big shift. There will be a better second-tier competition, that will likely take the elitist approach of making sure there aren’t filler games with bland teams. It’ll focus on quality, because clubs can’t afford to be left behind.

That’s the thinking anyway.

What makes all the above worse is all roads point to this being pushed through without much resistance. Below are some questions I had answered by various people on the potential roadblocks being discussed.

WE’LL BAN PLAYERS FROM INTERNATIONALS

Firstly, we just lost our captain to malaria, I’m not sure clubs care too much for the schedule that ruins their talent. Secondly, UEFA and FIFA simply can’t do it. International duty is an honour, but it doesn’t put food on the table. There is no situation where the 500 best players in the world are not invited to the international tournaments, why?  Because there’s no product unless the best players are there.

Imagine the options.

$500k p/w at Arsenal. No World Cup.

$100k p/w at Crystal Palace. Average Europe if you are lucky. World Cup.

No brainer.

PREMIER LEAGUE WILL EJECT BIG 6

A lovely thought, but Sky are not going to have that. It takes more than 14 votes to make a decision at Premier League level. Also, the other clubs don’t want it. The absolute last thing Steve Parish needs is the gravy train of the big 6 exiting the league. No one is paying to watch a top of the table clash between Leicester and Crystal Palace.

There’s also an alternative if they did do a madness. The Premier League is a separate entity from the Championship. The Big 6 could join forces with them and maybe the SPL. They would absolutely jump at the chance.

PLAYERS WILL PROTEST

Highly doubtful. Players will know this new deal means more money if you make it to the top. They will also soon learn that better players in the Premier League mean a bigger TV deal which means more money for them. Remember when it was an actual conversation whether players would go to shit clubs with no history for money? If you don’t, it was a real conversation.

Super League means a bigger retirement fund for everyone. Players aren’t going to vote for something that lowers their earnings potential.

REBEL TEAMS WILL BE BANNED FROM EUROPE THIS FRIDAY

How can you cancel the Champions League? How can you make the Europa League spectacle Roma vs Villareal?

Moves like that wouldn’t fly with TV or sponsors. They would also push clubs right into the Super League. UEFA and FIFA need to negotiate, they’d be foolish to go nuclear on this season.

GOVERNMENT INTERVENTION

This sounded like a good idea to me yesterday morning. It’s a populist move, it could be politically advantageous for someone like Boris who courts the working-class vote. However, it’d be quite the move for democratic nations to tell private business what they can do. It’d also be problematic to demand less money come into the country via payroll tax. Every nation is reeling, they need to pay loans back, footballer revenue is a big, big contributor.

MURDOCH INTERVENTION

This Super League move is an attack on his empire. You’ve seen the seething pundits he’s rolling out. Every newspaper in his portfolio will rally against this. He is the darkest of media moguls. I read a piece about his relationship with Zuck. He basically told him to course-correct on media payments or he’d go after him. His relentless attacks wear the powerful down, his channels make you nightly news, his sycophants get airtime on his shows parroting corrosive talking points over and over. If he gets his teeth into this, he could use the basic premise of populism to create a divide between fans and their clubs. How much stomach do CEOs have for his crew rummaging in the metaphorical bins of the past? Vinai didn’t have the stomach for a fan Q&A Sunday.

FAN POWER

This is a legitimate form of action that could be interesting. Fans could protest. They could activate social media. They could clog switchboards. They could be a real pain in the arse.

Problem? CEO Daniel Levey isn’t driving this move. CEO Vinai isn’t the decision-maker. It’s Stan, who is sitting in a £100m ranch in Colorado. You know what he’s thinking? £12 billion over 23 seasons, minimum.

There are rumours some British clubs are losing their nerve, so let’s see… but my point stands, owners of these mega clubs make the decisions. They aren’t in the stands or on twitter. They reside in palaces, ranches, and mansions where the rabble cannot bother them. Bottling it after 2 days would be a surprise.

FOOTBALL FILLIBUSTERING

The biggest weapon against all of this is time. CEOs and owners know this. If they can’t get this agreed for next season, the weight of the fans, the media, and government might be too much. Someone has to find a big wrench and slow the momentum. If you can give the fighters of this battle the weapon of time, it might be stopped.

They’re trying to go warp speed on this because once it’s done, fans in the stadium can’t do much about it. It’ll be as effective as Green & Gold or the Wenger Out protests. But clog it up, target a weak owner, and who knows?

THE GERMANY EFFECT

PSG are not committing yet, but let’s be real, no team needs this like them. However, Germany has been quiet. They are fan-owned. This is not a fan-owned vibe. Germany is not a country that readily indulges the big man taking away from the little man. A strong statement of rejection from Bayern and Dortmund would add real pressure to the other clubs.

So to conclude. This is a desperate time for those of us that believe in football the way it’s currently shaped. The meritocratic nature of the game that we love has become a squashed business model impediment. We’re now on the path to something far more stable and controlled. I don’t like it. It’s a miserable end to a journey we all knew we were on for years.

Football looks like a WWE drama from the 90s, but less fun. We’re looked at as a category of content, not a community institution. We cater to the globe, not the faithful. We now represent the worst of privilege and entrenched power.

Rooting for UEFA or FIFA is like choosing a root canal or an eye infection. Hoping a media mogul that has divided the world comes to our rescue is literally doing a deal with the devil. Praying fan action will do anything after watching it fail over and over again feels naive.

This is not the game I fell in love with, but it’s the game I love. What do you do?

Let’s see where the drama takes us.

P.S. We dropped a spicy podcast about the touchiest subject we’ve ever covered on The Arsenal Opinion. Johnny, Matt and myself were joined by Venture Capitalist, Daniel Cardenas (long-suffering Gooner).

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andy1886

Kroenke Out!!!

andy1886

Out! Out! Out!

andy1886

Thieving F*cker!

andy1886

Time for flaming torches and pitchforks.

andy1886

As you can tell I’m not in favour of this ESL…

andy1886

Actually Pedro we don’t have to ‘Suck it Up’, imagine Churchill telling Poland to ‘Suck it Up’! Cowardly response.

andy1886

Try speaking to actual fans rather than ‘People in the Game’, or parasites with vested self-interests as I prefer to call them.

andy1886

Their finances are in the shithouse because they have an awful financial model, not because ‘money was left on the table’. Give them more money and they’ll blow that too. Awful owners and complete morons is they think this is the answer.

Davey

9th place ESL Arsenal elite

Terraloon

Pedro Reality Here’s what I posted elsewhere There is no doubt that this is all driven by money but and a big but the timing of the announcement on the day that UEFA announced their proposals to re vamp the CL, EL and their soon to be introduced 3rd competition isn’t coincidental. For UEFA to be crying Wolf or come to that the PL smacks of pure hypocrisy just as Sky trying to take the moral high ground and whipping things up just makes me shake my head in disbelief. It was Sky that facilitated the breakaway PL. the breakaway… Read more »

andy1886

Pedro trying to sell this as ‘good for everyone’ makes me sick. Good for Stan and his cronies raking in the cash while investing nothing. Enjoy propping up the ESL? Getting our arses kicked week in week out with Saucey Mikel? No thanks.

Guns of Brixton

Made for a really grim read that.

Seems inevitable. Dragged kicking and screaming into a new age of football.

andy1886

“No one is paying to watch a top of the table clash between Leicester and Crystal Palace.”

Can’t agree at all. Would far rather watch that than a pointless ‘clash’ between also-rans in a ESL with nothing at stake. Pedro forgetting that competition is what makes sport special, not you marketing bullshit and Sky razzmatazz.

andy1886

Interesting to note that every single argument Pedro puts forward for this is about MONEY. Not one sporting argument in favour of it at all.

Arsnil

Reprehensible and all that the Super League notion is, I view it as nothing more than the final chapter in s litany of greed that has been going on for decades now where the footballing elite live off fans who many still don’t realise that their clubs have moved from being FC to PLC and don’t give a shit about their fan base. Our move to the Emirates was supposed to herald a new dawn for our club to move to the next level. Right yeah. Ozil on £350k a week not playing and that was somehow the way it… Read more »

Captain Tierney

Pedro you’ve flip-flopped in a day from being against, to providing reasons why the ESL may not be that bad. I mean that Perez interview where he claimed to be football’s messiah was very powerful. And Perez is a powerful man. But no reason or explanation can hide the fact that the founding clubs are creating an elitist closed economy. It’s as plain as day. I am not against the idea of a super league. It has been in the making for a decade or more now. And UEFA and FIFA are no saints but the format of the ESL… Read more »

Darren

andy1886
Please stop commenting. You’re adding negative value to the conversation

Captain Tierney

A twitter user with a large following tweeted out that people from the ESL (football people) have approached influential fan sites (blogs, pods,etc) to push the ESL as the right thing/good thing in return for $$$. (Paraphrasing here)

DivineSherlock

Andy1886

Wait till you see the opening ceremony with Beyonce , the final ceremony with Dua Lipa at Football European Super League Final with 90mins divided into 3 halves of 30mins with new ads and trailer of movies running in between for an hour . Strategic Time outs taken by Manager anytime to use different tactics like the Diamond Pincer and rules like no offside .

andy1886

Darren, thanks for your valuable input.

Do you have an opinion? At all?

Batistuta

First time I’ve read the whole post on a while and have to agree with most of it, the ESL seems inevitable really. Nothing UEFA or FIFA realistically can do about it and more than half the players would revel in the fact they get even higher wages really

DivineSherlock

andy1886

Pedro incidentally forgot about his own values , he used to be all against Elite Purgatory . Now he actively endorses it by saying ita inevitable , ofcourse he is a sellout.

Kaz

The way you’re trying to sell this is fucking shambolic.

Kaz

You always were slimey. Can tell you have absolutely no football soul.

DM

PEDRO you are literally talking the BIGGEST LOAD OF SHIT imaginable. I am so so disappointed in what I am reading. You’re saying: FIFA and UEFA haven’t been good. So to fix this: LET’S MAKE THINGS 100 TIMES WORSE! Unbelievable. I’m not usually like this, really, but the very nature of the game we love is being discussed like it’s something that can be bought. Anyone who can’t see the HUGE problem with the ESL in the way it has been presented can fuck right off. By all means, make a new European elite competition, reform the game to make… Read more »

andy1886

@CT – It wouldn’t surprise me. Paying ‘Influencers’ to push a message is standard business practise these days. Shame on those that sell their souls for their thirty pieces of silver.

Kaz

Sell out. Just another Ashley and Nasri.

🖕🏾

Batistuta

Yea there has to be a way to put in relegation and promotion in the format makes it a hell of a lot more competitive that’s for sure.

Football has been heading this way for a while now to be honest maybe is why I’m a bit more open minded to the idea. It’s basically a new UCL format if I’m not mistaken and doesn’t stop any clubs from competing in their respective leagues.

I mean UEFA are about expanding the current UCL format into something more horrible anyway

andy1886

@DS – Something changed for Pedro over night. I wonder what it was?…

DM

I’m actually amazed that they called it European Super League. I would’ve bet anything it’d be called THE WORLD SERIES.

DivineSherlock

The argument for ESL right now is that UEFA and FIFA are corrupt too , so we shouldnt resist it. What the domestic FAs and UEFA needs to do is allow those clubs to play just find a way to strip their titles , run UCL in parellel without those clubs and relegate them in the league, make it an obligation to have them play their best team . Then we’ll see how will they play matches on all 3 fronts . Fans will rally behind the Leeds and Evertons of the league , I am sure of it .… Read more »

Cheney10

If the clubs involved make a few tweaks to the set up and format all the noise disappears. For example, the 12 teams involved can claim they have the highest UEFA rankings based on history so justify their inclusion. They add 8 more based on that principle followed by plans to set up a division two next year. There is no promotion or relegation in the first season but will then take place from season two onwards…. That minor tweak quietens everyone as the concept is not that bad; it is an alternative to the CL and the EPL will… Read more »

Bob N16

This ESL proposal has really made me consider my own reaction to the news and how it compares to others.. I read of many posters who passionately reject this potential development and talk about supporting another local team. Close friends who are all ST holders and live locally are talking about following Clapton FC to get back to their supporting roots. I completely understand this visceral reaction and for some I know it’s the straw that broke the camel’s back in the way the TV money, sponsorship, agents, corruption in FIFA/UEFA have stained the supporter’s enjoyment of the beautiful game.… Read more »

Bob N16

Cheney10, I like the idea of a historical, coefficient calculation particularly if it dumps the Spuds!

DM

Bob I understand what you’re saying. We all love Arsenal. That’s why it’s so important that this new league doesn’t go ahead, so that we don’t have to make these choices. To follow the team we love even when they abandon us and no longer represent the very thing that we love about them, or to somehow leave them behind. It’s extremely difficult, but for me it’s about personal integrity. Imagine if Arsenal were not one of the teams involved, imagine how we’d all be feeling about the ESL then. That shouldn’t change just because we’re going to benefit from… Read more »

Charles Fox

They have to find a way to integrate the ESL with existing leagues and Cups or they could end up operating in a separate parallel media circus universe. Scenario 1. could be the ESL replaces the CL with 6 places available each year on merit to league or cup winners possibly with play offs. Ideally bottom two teams in group stages to get relegated. Scenario 2 is the rogue 12 get the boot from existing leagues and cups’ and spend most of season travelling the world playing close to meaningless exhibition games. whilst the rest of clubs continue with competitive… Read more »

Kroenkephobe

@CT – It wouldn’t surprise me. Paying ‘Influencers’ to push a message is standard business practise these days. Shame on those that sell their souls for their thirty pieces of silver Hi Andy I had the strong sense that was what Ozy was doing on here yesterday. What a ‘job’. England’sbest by contrast is just beyond redemption. Pedro I appreciated reading the precis of your conversations with the money men. It confirmed a lot of my suspicions. Free and deregulated markets, backed by corrupt politicians who are basically billionaires agents. Dontcha just love ’em? With Bojo and Gavin fucking Williamson… Read more »

Cheney10

@DM If we weren’t in it, we would be worried because we have already been left behind thinking FFP would level the playing field. I’m not buying the fake indignation and moral arguments here…. It is a new competition set up to rival the CL nothing more nothing less… Would everyone be so dismayed had Uefa presented the concept? Of course not. As I said earlier and I do concede, the format and set up need to be addressed, which I’m sure is already under discussion. Should the format change to allow promotion and relegation in season two will you… Read more »

Kaz

Not my words but certain sell outs should read and really consider the ramifications. “I suppose we should be asking what comes after the introduction of the Super League? One aspect of the American franchise model is the relocation of sports teams. Once clubs abandon their historical connections to certain areas, and embrace full commercialisation, what’s to stop them moving? It’s not that hard to imagine Manchester City playing most their home games in Abu Dhabi. We can probably expect El Clasico live from Beijing and the Milan derby in New York — this already happens during pre-season tours but… Read more »

englandsbest

The two Garys – Lineker and Neville – two procrastinators prating obout matters they know little about.A pair of ”know-it-alls’ who happen to have a small gift for kicking a football. Both of them tedious beyond despair. Lineker never had the nerve to manage a Club. Neville did – and failed miserably. Lineker, a goal poacher, nothing more. In terms of skill, not a patch on Alan Smith. Neville above all a hacker. Does anybody forget his thuggery in the game that ended the unbeaten run? The football press up-in-arks!!! A gruesome joke. Everybody knows they deal in rumour, hearsay,… Read more »

Cheney10

@BobN16

😂😂 Yes would be great times. The clubs who have proposed the new concept suggested that historical coefficient should be used to allow teams in that missed out from year to year…. They turned the idea down due to sporting merit… Therefore the clubs broke away and decided to set up a league where sporting merit isn’t an issue 😂😂. I do hope they look at that aspect of the format mind.

Max

“It would be quite something for government to tell private business what to do”

Heard of anti monopoly laws?? Or when govt breaks up companies W.g Microsoft and how they threatening google etc? Govt interfere all the time.

Right this minute Governments are howling and threatening social media companies to regulate their platforms more.

It really just depends how smart the ESL execs have been with their own lobbying 😉

DivineSherlock

Kaz

Spot On.

Kroenkephobe

Bob

Thanks mate. You’ve summed up the emotional aspect of this perfectly and it helps to validate my own feelings about it.

Apart from the emotional side, I just think this new model is going to be soooo dull and sterile. I know within myself that watching football under this new model has no appeal whatsoever.

People have talked about this in the past but has the time has come again to think about a new Arsenal arising from the swap of Kroenke’s greed – a North London version of FC United of Manchester?

Jim Lahey

No surprise at all that Pedro would be onboard with this, the man who thought the sun shines out of Ivan Gazidis’ass.

Also, loving the classic Pedro tactic of “I was talking to [unnamed source] and they were saying [my opinion]”

gunnerman

Pedro you rebelled against Wenger harder than this. You’ve changed.

DivineSherlock

BobN16 Not to disregard your feelings nor do I intend any disrespect but The Arsenal I know and love didnt get build by crushing hopes of smaller clubs , they build it through hard work and on merit . You want to support Arsenal in ESL , imagine being a Leicester fan for once . They after narrowingly missing last year are finally looking like they would make UCL next season , by virtue of hard work behind the scenes and on the pitch . If you still back Arsenal after this , isnt that going against the ethos of… Read more »

James wood.

Pedro your ramblings have grown quite odd
you cannot keep moving the goalposts it’s a
Yellow at best.

gnarleygeorge9

Ha ha ha, so Murdoch who revolutionised the old 1st Division, etc, etc is “the darkest of media moguls”, but Americans who openly only care about profit for themselves are Gr8. Dear oh dear!!

Jim Lahey

It is honestly like I just read a press release from The Super League’s media team… Maybe that is what Pedro is aiming for.

Emiratesstroller

Let me pose a simple question to all those posters, politicians, clubs, ex footballers who oppose the creation of a European Super League. How many clubs, their owners or footballers would turn down an offer to join the ESL. I doubt that there would be single one. Do you think that Leicester and their Thai Owners would turn it down or for for that matter any club which has British Ownership? Football has been for a very long time a “greedy business”. Fans can afford to be altruistic, but owners who are responsible for paying bills are not. Kroenke has… Read more »

TT

Strangely enough I don’t see this blog as approval of the super league at all. I feel what Pedro is saying is that this is going to be bad for football in many ways but going to be hard to stop if the owners persist with this course. As for fan protest we all saw how divided Arsenal was over Wenger. There may be more solidarity over this but not enough I fear. I cant see Boris and co stopping this all talk no action. I don’t think Monopoly laws will work as there is nothing stopping other clubs from… Read more »

DM

Cheney

Totally agree that if they make changes to what they’ve said, it will make a huge difference.

But that doesn’t mean it’s not a huge issue. It’s like saying, oh, all they have to do to stop making it unfair is to make it fair. Well yeah, no shit… The reason we’re all in uproar is because it isn’t fair!

Samesong

I think Xhaka would make a good Quarterback in ESL

Gooner Gtant

People need to realise that a football club is a business pure and simple and rely on making money, there is no room for sentiment or morals in a successful business. I find it baffling that the people that have been moaning. That we can’t and haven’t completed with the best teams for the last 10 years. Now we have that opportunity again to possibly start to play among the best in the world. These same people are moaning how unfair it is! As I’ve said Arsenal Football club are a business, and business need to make money. I am… Read more »

Spanishdave

We would be crying if we were not included.
We would be blaming Stan Arteta and the tea lady.
Because it would make us feel what we currently are, a team in decline with a crap rookie manager.
This would make us wake up and act big for once, not living in the past.
Sky are owned by Comcast, Murdoch sold out.
They make billions out of selling PL matches to the Far East and the clubs get crumbs from the table.
Why don’t we want to be an elite club?

TR7

Well if football owners are not making money they themselves are to blame. 200K per week wages in EPL was unheard of until Man United caved in to demand of Rooney and guess what ? Since then every quality player in the league is getting paid 200 k plus wages. Instead of forming a super league may be the owners of top 6 clubs should have decided to not pay anyone obscene salary. Or they should have vowed to not pay Raiolas of the world 20M plus in every transfer deal. They should have perhaps decided to be more judicious… Read more »

DM

How about this: £500k per week. No World Cup. No Champions League. No Premier League, La Liga, etc. No FA Cup. NO EUROS/African Cup of Nations. EVER – because if you play in the ESL then you forfeit your right to ever play in a FIFA/UEFA/etc competition. All this for a new competition which created by rich men with not a single care for football; an experiment which might take off, or might sink. Playing the same teams week in week out, year in year out, with no repercussions for failure. Oh, and knowing that a huge majority of the… Read more »

Jim Lahey

“Why don’t we want to be an elite club?”

How does this make us elite?
We still have no chance of winning our domestic league (if we are still in it). We also don’t have a chance of winning this “super league”.

Rjm

This Super League idea is good.

Govt intervention WILL stop it.

Then hopefully Kronke will sell and fuck off…..

Jim Lahey

I also love that people automatically think that the money obtained from this new league will go into making the squad stronger, how delusional can you be?

Dark Hei

“Why don’t we want to be an elite club?”

Sorry, no interest in an elite Soccer club

Max

@ Wiglaf

My understanding of Oedro stance isn’t that he’s in favour, just that his sources said it’s inevitable

@ TT I wasn’t suggesting monopoly laws would apply, just gave an example of government stepping in and telling private business what to do and how to operate. It’s not unheard of or impossible and Microsoft were an even bigger deal than the premier league in 2000 it was a monumental case : https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/technology/2000/jun/07/microsoft.business1

It just depends how much govt cares about this..

DM

“Govt intervention WILL stop it.

Then hopefully Kronke will sell and fuck off…..”

Hopefully, yes. The Govt need to work with all the other organisations to make this idea an absolute non-starter, at which point the owners can realise that they’re wasting their time and fuck off back to their own sports that they can ruin as much as they like.

DivineSherlock

Emiratesstroller Kroenke has not managed the club well since he became the owner, but he is not a crook and I doubt that he has received much financial benefit since he too over the club. . .Holy shit now I have to feel sorry for a billionaire because he couldnt make a profit of a well run club over an 80 year period , he bought willingly ? Its not about who wants to join the ESL, yes maybe even Leicester would , but its about whether there is any need to create this ESL . Your defense of this… Read more »

Rich

Kroenkephobe

Sorry you got cancelled and I missed your post

I’m sure it was a pelter 😘

gunnerman

If you analyze the Perez conference, one of the points he made was that this league is necessary because Madrid and Barca have no money.

Well I don’t see why they get a cop out for their financial mismanagement. They put themselves in this position and should receive administration like countless other clubs that went bankrupt before. Clubs like ours are being played along into helping them out.

bacaryisgod

Forgive me Pedro if I’m a little skeptical that the ‘people in the game’ you’ve spoken to have any real knowledge to impart. Maybe the head of advertising at some hospitality company might have an opinion on this but it sure doesn’t sound as simplistic as you want to make out.

You’ve shown that you’re so easily swayed by the cynical side of the debate that it shows you think more like the people you spoke to than most posters on your own blog.

Bob N16

Divinesherlock –

I am not in support of a ESL but I’m admitting that if Arsenal were in it I couldn’t help but support them. If Arsenal got kicked out of the PL and ended up in the conference they would still be my team, I don’t feel as though I have a choice in the matter!

Thanks Kroenkephobe, kind of you.

DM – I’m afraid ‘personal integrity” doesn’t feature in my thoughts. I can’t help but support Arsenal and the owners are banking on that although it’ll be very interesting at ST renewal time in a month or so!

Sid

ValentinApril 20, 2021 09:51:25
‘ In fact most of the issues the world is now confronted came from a very Anglo-Saxon notion that the market knows better.’

Anglo-saxon status quo which gives us grief, is to contain us so that a few royals who don’t work survive on our work.

Max

Personally I’m not convinced that the profit argument will hold even in this ESL… it’s not like more wages in the EPL has meant more profits as costs ie wages and transfers have risen right alongside the TV money. Can see this just getting turbo charged with transfers for megastars now costing ESL clubs close to 1 Billion lol

Bob N16

Samesong – Xhaka at quarterback – I like your thinking!

Max

*not like more TV money has ultimately meant more profits

englandsbest

Interesting that Jurgen Klopp has come out against Liverpool owners on the ESL issue. Managers who cross their bosses generally lose their job.

I’m not suggesting that Klopp isn’t genuine – he is a forthright guy – but it’s starting to look like his eyes are on managing the German national side.

His replacement is evident: Steve Gerrard

gnarleygeorge9

No doubt there will be the franchise flavour name changes

Manchester Steelers
Manchester Vikings
Liverpool Buccaneers
Tottenham Rams
Arsenal Capitals
Chelsea Lions

In the spirit of the old Pink Floyd song Eclipse.

…….‘and everything under the USA is in tune, but the US is owned by China’. Good luck with your brave new world Pedro. Ha hahaaaaaa!

gunnerman

It’s Shanghai Cannons for me

Bob N16

True Max,

The agents and lawyers are getting moist at the thought of it! Haaland and Mbappe’s agents must be walking around with a permanent stuffy at the money that could be coming their way.

Just like when Chelsea and then Man C and PSG injected stupid money for their projects, football inflation will be rampant. Would it lead to American franchise unity around salary caps etc?

Bob N16

gnarleygeorge9,

Surely we can do better for the Spuds, Tottenham Cocks might be an early contender….

bacaryisgod

Not fair to imply that Pedro might take a little extra cash to support this. He’s got a good income and this blog has always been a labour of love for him. However, he does seem influenced by some of his ‘ruthless’ business friends who seem to have pushed him towards defending this. The reality is that it kills football as we know it. On your podcast you even promoted a Champions League 2 that would be ‘meritocratic’. That’s the whole reason why a Super League is so toxic. The best argument against it for English football fans is a… Read more »

TheBlaster

Tim at 7am KickOff wrote an article kind of accepting the inevitability of it and reminding the reader of the scumminess of UEFAs equally money grabbing (and anti competitive because of the seeding) changed to the Champions League. For Arsenal to effectively cheat their way into Europe is just out of order. A lot rests on the British government. If they think the public opinion winds are blowing against this initiative, led by mostly hated foreign billionaires, and if they think it’s a way to get football fans to vote for them, Priti Patel can change the criteria required for… Read more »

Cheney10

You all may not like it and it may be ugly, crass and make your skin crawl but business is business. If Yoy had a chance to take the 350m, you would take it in a heartbeat. I’m also sure there are people on here who would do a lot worse than cancel sporting merit for 350m per year for the next 20 years…. let that sink in before talking about fairness and taking the moral high ground.

englandsbest

It’s naive to believe that ESL Clubs will allow players wages to rise astronomically. On the contrary, they will lower them to levels above those that non-ESL Clubs can afford to pay. For me that is good for the game, not bad. Too much money drains into the pockets of players like Ozil and their agents.

DivineSherlock

Its like a fucking Cartel , choosing who can stay and leave in this ESL .

Cmansf

@DivineSherlock spot on Jamie Carragher has made the best point to date apart from the obvious greed driven agenda. These new owners are custodians of our club and right now they are banking and creaming the profits off the back of those who built our clubs. I have no issue with progress and adjusting the game, but as someone who lived in the US for 3 years for work in the past, American closed franchised sports are soulless entertainment events. Football is transported across the world as its built from passion, the fear of loss, the ecstasy of winning and… Read more »

DivineSherlock

Cheney10

Yeah beggars cant be choosers they say . We would or we wont , problem is we dont have that choice. So I will harp on about merit and take the moral high ground , dimwit. Not everyone has to be crass , selfish and born without values like you.

Richard Gray

Having supported this club over 50yrs, worked, there for 10years, even got married there, I have never been so ashamed! It smacks of pure greed by mainly American owners, who will turn it into their version of the MLS or NFL No promotion/relegation, maybe even relocate if they sense it would be viable?! Kronke has done it before!
What would someone like Aliko Dangote do? He’s shown interest in the club

TheBlaster

Comments that the owners aren’t profiting from clubs are disengenuous. They were bought as assets and have appreciated significantly. It’s little different from. Buying land or property.

Dissenter

Pedro
If there was ever a Pulitzer Prize fir football blogging, you ought to get it for this post.

Re[girdles of how anyone may feel about the European super league, this is the most impressive, level headed and reality based defense of the concept.

Take a bow.

I think it’s just a bad poker move by the biggest producers of the game who are angry at the middle men.

Dissenter

*Regardless of how anyone ,any feel

NORG

I think some of you are going overboard with comments against Pedro when clearly he is explaining the background of his journalistic investigations (opinions of others). We now know why Tim Lewis was employed as the ‘Super League’ has been on the drawing board for sometime. Corporate lawyers have been flat out on this for months. They will have gone through the scenarios (as explained in this post) already and the group of clubs will be in a strong position to counter objections. An interesting thing in the next 4 weeks will be the identity of other clubs who will… Read more »

Billp79

There so t be any creamy profits…
It’s just an inflationary spiral…
They are just usurping FIFA and UEFA
A greater money stream (supposedly) Will drive higher player wages (that price out smaller teams) and demand larger advert.fees and ultimately demand higher can feed for viewing and products

Dissenter

Batistuta
‘ First time I’ve read the whole post on a while and have to agree with most of it, the ESL seems inevitable really. Nothing UEFA or FIFA realistically can do about it and more than half the players would revel in the fact they get even higher wages really’

They won’t get higher wages though. There will be salary and transfer ceilings.

Jim Lahey

“Re[girdles of how anyone may feel about the European super league, this is the most impressive, level headed and reality based defense of the concept.”

Every last bit of it is pure conjecture, but if you think that deserves a Pulitzer Prize then that’s on you I guess..

GARY_SSSSS

Greed drives capitalism and fuels progress. Hence the formation of the breakaway Premier League. Then the European Champions league.

However, left unchecked, greed ultimately leads to destruction, like the newly agreed, expanded Champions League format that will not improve the product, but lead to more, pointless, bland games, like the newly proposed Super League that will signal the end of travelling away fans.

This proposal will ultimately destroy the game we love.

Billp79

They just hope to stay head if the inflationary cycle
By taking over for the admin aspect and guaranteeing no demotion they can rest somewhat assured

Jim Lahey

“I think some of you are going overboard with comments against Pedro when clearly he is explaining the background of his journalistic investigations (opinions of others).”

What others? Sitting down and making up conversations does not equate to a journalistic investigation.

DigitalBob

FYI…Pedro seemed against the idea in the podcast or at least more so in that than it seems to be in his recent posts.

I enjoyed it thoroughly. Johnny was great as was Daniel the hedge fund guy, a very very good podcast guys.

I hope if doesn’t go through and we as well as the other clubs involved are sanctioned in some way. Apparently City and Chelsea are already wavering.

Dissenter

Jim
He’s made a better pointed argument for his beliefs, better than all the tantrums I’ve seen elsewhere.

The Bard

I’m surprised by the anti Pedro views. My understanding of the post was that he wasn’t in support but arguing its a slam dunk and trying to look at what positives might be. Football and sanity parted company years ago so I can get too worked up about it. A ESL has been mooted for years so it’s hardly a surprise. What will be fascinating is the fans reaction in the stadiums. Could be interesting

Cheney10

@Divine 😂😂 Ok, I’m the ‘dimwit’. Take a look at the outcry and those that are painting the picture you have bought. You’re telling me that the outcry against the concept is not being lead by those that stand to lose the most if it was to come to fruition? Look up ‘moral panic’ on Google. You’ll realise that is exactly what is occurring here, not because they, UEFA, Fifa, FA, EPL, BT and Sky to name but a few, are truly invested in the moral argument but because they know we, the fans will be and that’s there best… Read more »

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