EUROPA LEAGUE NOW DANGEROUSLY IMPORTANT FOR ARTETA

by .

Well, before we dive into the mess. Le Grove passed 2.5m comments yesterday. Quite the number when I consider how many comments I delete on a weekly basis. The shame? That the massive jump happened because Arsenal reverted to pre-December form and dropped an abomination of a performance.

There’s only one way to look at the game.

Meek.

We were absolutely petrified of Liverpool. No one in that starting 11 thought they were coming out of that game with more than a point and that mindset is down to Arteta.

Can you blame injuries?

No. You can’t.

Ceballos in midfield next to Partey. That’s Arteta. He agreed to renew the loan, that was his expert decision, it’s been a fucking disaster. The Spaniard put the same performance in against West Ham at the start of the season, too many touches on the ball, doing an impression of a player that looks good. He hasn’t moved forward.

Auba out wide. That’s Arteta. Our captain has been shocking for a long time. He’s not good enough to play as a 9, so Arteta has hidden him on the wing where he has to do things he’s just not good at. His lack of control, his sloppiness on the ball, the zero confidence he has running at players. He should be benched. An unacceptable decision.

Rob Holding in defence. I like him, but it’s clear he can’t do what Arteta needs from a centre back. But guess who decided to give him a new deal? Arteta.

Bernd Leno. That was an Arteta decision. Two huge errors again from the German, again. This is not a blip, this is an extended run of shiteness that needs to be addressed. Mat Ryan should be used, could he be any worse?

Lots of bad decisions are starting to pile-up, like they did before Christmas. That performance was a copyright infringement on Emeryball. No guts. A bad plan. A spanking by a team we gifted the points.

Now, what you can’t avoid are these two pockets of reality.

Firstly, the reason Arteta opts for Luiz and Xhaka is because against good teams, we have no one better. We missed both today. Xhaka more so, but Luiz for his leadership and presence.

Secondly, it’s clear that the two most important player in our attack are Saka and ESR.

Here’s some truth… and this came from Johnny on the podcast who is not the biggest of Arteta fans.

If the Premier League bothers you, it’s your pride talking. At this point, it’s better we don’t make Europa via the league. Next season would be better served with no Europe, so we could do a West Ham.

Arteta has now refocused his tenure on success in the Europa League.

That is his objective. The blanket he’d love to call his comfort. It’s basically the only thing that saves him this year.

Win Europa, he’s Mr 2 Trophies, in the Champions League, fighting off Barca overtures.

Lose that trophy… well, things are going to heat up for him. That new deal he’s hoping for might not come that easily. Fan sentiment in the stadium will turn.

For me, I’m not really tapping on that beat. ‘Performance’ is what I want from Arteta right now. Bumming his way to Europa won’t do it for me.

I want to see progress every week. I need to see new mistakes, not those that we’ve been over before. Consistency is what takes us to the promised land.

If the system we’ve opted to play needs £500m to work. If it can’t tolerate 4 players missing. Then it won’t work for Arsenal.

The problems we’re dealing with right now are not all Arteta’s… but a growing number of them are. Mo Elneney’s agent telling the press he’s getting a renewal? Arteta playing a centre back as a right back when he has two fit right backs? Willian not getting a sniff? Auba getting a sniff? Gabriel Martinelli being treated he was caught doing something disgusting with the dirty linen? All Arteta.

The picture that hasn’t been painted yet is what is the future of the club? How will we deal with players that have deals running out? How will we replace? Will success in the Europa mean continuity of failed ideas?

Arteta is at ANOTHER pivotal moment of his short career. Dips are par the course… but if this Liverpool game sparks a terrible 2 weeks, the wounds might not heal. We can’t have another fatal month like we did pre-Christmas, it’s too soon for that. Fans will lose interest, and worse, so will the players. Belief is fragile… every day is a judgement… today was shocking. The only way it’ll be forgiven is if there’s a big response on Thursday.

… that’s now looking tougher. We were utterly dross. Project Arteta has just dropped down to amber. The manager has no one to blame but himself.

Thursday needs something big. Can we do it? I have my doubts.

Whilst you’re there, take a listen of our latest podcast. I’m joined by Johnny, you can listen to his How’s Your Father pod here. BUT, for pure Arsenal, click below. He does a great job explaining the reality of our season… let me know what you think in the comments.

Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Stitcher | Google Play

438 Responses to “EUROPA LEAGUE NOW DANGEROUSLY IMPORTANT FOR ARTETA”

Jump to comment form ↓

  1. Habesha Gooner

    China
    It’s because Arteta is the ultimate hoarder. He would rather have everyone here than them be out playing. AMN wasn’t going to be used this season but he turned down bids for the guy eventhough he knew he wouldn’t play. He didn’t loan put Reiss or Eddie in January when he knew they wouldn’t get chances. He kept Mustafi and Sokratis instead of cancelling their contracts at the start of the season. It is just shit decision making. And we will this this summer when he will offer David luiz, Lacazette and Elneny new contracts when we should be selling them or letting them go. His decisions about the squad have been horrendous. The results have been disappointing. The only thing going for him right now is that the performances haven’t been shit since January. And we have played well most of the games.

  2. Pierre

    Heŕ

    Tony in full jackanory mode .

    “Wenger had all the power at that time, but chose himself as any true narcissistic megalomaniac would.Wenger didn’t back DD; he let DD be thrown under the bus and the rest is history – Wenger couldn’t even stop Leicester winning the league.”

    Sometimes it’s better to say nothing Tony , I’m surprised the Wenger obsessives dare to even show their face after the way things have turned out..
    But no, here you are bemoaning the fact that we were runners up in the league whilst atm we are stranded in mid table. .

    The ramblings of ishola last night in trying to justify the disgusting treatment of wenger by the entitled fans is typical of this sad minority who have embarrassed the club.

    “Be careful what you wish for” ….how true.

  3. Wiglaf

    But no, here you are bemoaning the fact that we were runners up in the league whilst atm we are stranded in mid table. .The ramblings of ishola last night in trying to justify the disgusting treatment of wenger by the entitled fans is typical of this sad minority who have embarrassed the club.

    Amen 🙏

  4. Aussie+Gooner

    So continues the bizarre team selection, playing players out of position, spurious substitutions etc, etc. How anyone can still think Arteta is the man for the job after this performance is beyond me. 50 games in and he is still making the same rookie errors – is he not capable of learning? Is there some underlying Borderline Personality Disorder at play here? I can not fathom it. My dog is a quicker learner and he is as thick as mince!

    Does anyone know what our leader’s preferred starting 11 is? I don’t and neither do the players! By all means sell Saka, ESR and Tierney. While you are at it sell Balogun, Martinelli, Nketiah, Cirjan and Cottrill. Keep Luiz, Willian, Laca, Abu and Xhaka. Sell the stadium while we are at it and re-locate to Milton Keynes! There, problem solved! Financial gain for the Krankies and removing all semblance of ambition for the club thus bringing expectations in line with achievement!

  5. Ishola70

    Pierre

    “The ramblings of ishola last night in trying to justify the disgusting treatment of wenger by the entitled fans is typical of this sad minority who have embarrassed the club.”

    You are in complete denial as to the source of the decline that now sees the club in midtable.

    The source of this current decline started in Wengers last two seasons at the club and with his awful transfer window where he purchased shit both Xhaka and Mustafi for a combined total of nearly 80m.

    The following managers including Emery, Ljungberg and Arteta would not entertain Wenger’s previous molly coddling of Ozil who occasionally turned up and played some football when it suited Mesut Ozil. Then we get in an Ozil MK II in Mhiki who again was a piff paff and who only occasionally turned up and played as well. He was shit at Man United and he was shit at Arsenal. Totally unsuited for a whole season of EPL football.

    And you have the cheek to call people out when you play dumb as to the source of this decline.

    The midfield has not yet recovered from the shit combination of Xhaka and Ozil and the damage this done to the whole team. We still suffer from the plank that is called Granit Xhaka. We finally got rid of the waster Mesut Ozil but we had to suffer for it for half a season with no recognised top quality ACM.

    Now go and light another candle under your Wenger mural.

  6. La croqueta

    Hi. You know what’s hilarious and sad about our Europa League campaign. We’re NOT favourites to win it. Yet winning it is the minimum expectation from the fanbase. Hilarious.

    Sad because the only reason Artetas job is safe is 1) No fans in stadium 2) The board hand picked this guy to shield them from having to hire an expensive manager with expensive tastes.

    If he can get us back into top4 or E.L without breaking the bank he’s done a good job. These are the ambitions targets and goals of the 3rd most successful team in English football history.
    Do fans realize we’ve fallen off? I don’t think they do. Not yet. Mabey next season. It’ll be more clear.

  7. Samesong

    Guys are going off topic and deflecting how shit we were on Saturday.

    Can’t keep having these Jekyll and Hyde performance and players only turning up when it suits them.

    Auba and Laca cannot play together at all.

  8. Samesong

    You have to question did Arteta learn anything from the last time we played Liverpool?

    Auba was totally ineffective and the same again in the return leg.

  9. Valentin

    Stubborness and arrogance are not rookie mistakes but character flaws. Unless external events force an introspection and a re-evaluation of one life priorities, a narcissist will repeat the same mistakes and never learn.

    I am afraid that Arteta is the perfect exhibit of that issue. He is so focus on showing who is the boss with his my way or the highway that he keep repeating the same mistakes.

    Members of the cult of Arteta think that one day he will miraculously learn and become a great manager a la Pep, but that won’t happen. In order to become a great manager, you need a modicum of self awareness and wanting to become even greater. Arteta think that he is already the finished article, so he won’t question himself. By refusing to question himself he won’t learn nor progress.

  10. englandsbest

    Some of the criticism of Arteta is plain daft. Only eleven of the players in a squad are first choice. The rest are there as back-up if needed. Some get on the subs bench. Others don’t. That is the simple arithmetic of a football squad. What makes the critics even dafter is that Arteta has REDUCED the size of the squad.

    Another silly notion is that Arteta HOARDS players. On the contrary, he has tried his utmost to GET RID OF players, It can be difficult if they are overpaid under performers (notably Ozil). As for AMN, it’s clear that Arteta sees him as part of the squad going forward

    And of course other factors come into play, like who is ‘home-grown’, who is under 21 yo, etc. All of which the ‘blame everything on the manager’ critics choose to ignore.

  11. Tippitappi

    Reflecting on some dire performances this season I’m wondering if certain
    players from this squad you know the ones, will wince knowing they can add
    to their CV that they were members of one of the worst Arsenal teams (squads)
    in living memory. Hope so.

  12. Wiglaf

    England is best

    I agree. Much of the criticism is silly. However as an ardent supporter of his I am now growing concerned at his inability to learn from his mistakes. He’s had it tough. But he has also chosen to keep Leno when it’s clear he was the inferior choice and doesn’t suit the style Arteta is implementing
    He kept Aubameyang when it’s clear that he doesn’t suit the style Arteta is implementing.
    The fact that he failed to address the gaping technical hole in the creative areas of the team in the summer when it’s clear that was what was needed
    The fact that he doubled down so hard on playing Willian and is now doing the same with Aubameyang.
    The dropping of players while they are in very good form- Martinez, holding, Cedric, Pepe, Mari and Amn is also concerning.

    I want this to work with him but I’m he’s not doing these players any favours when they have done so well for him and I’m sure they’ll have their collective confidence dented by such treatment

  13. Useroz

    Just one thing. With Tierney out at HT, it was cLear our left side would be targeted even more in the 2H.

    Arteta could have Martinelli in for Auba (or Pepe if Arteta had so much love for his captain) to start the 2H. Martinelli has consistently shown he’d ably help out the defense when played as LW…

    AA had a field day down the left while Auba minding his hairdo. (as if excessive running would jar the setting) and Soares almost always subject to 2 on 1, or Gabriel got pulled to the left to help out so much the CB pair was split effectively . Look where Gabriel and Soares (and Auba) were when we conceded those three goals….

  14. David Smith

    Whatever Arteta is or isn’t , suspect he is at the club for the foreseeable.
    Win the EL and he is bombproof. Fail, and I am sure he is very convincing to those above how time is needed to fix things, and To be fair, he has a point on that. He didn’t sack Wenger without a plan, he didn’t get rid of Sven, he didn’t dither over Gazidis,, and appointing a replacement, nor did he appoint Raul or over pay for Pepe with a mob style tribute/payment to a super agent thrown in.
    But things are increasingly happening that Arteta must now take the blame for , as Pedro mentions eloquently in this article.
    All I would say, MA looked genuinely shocked after that “ performance”, perhaps that will give him something to think about.
    The problem at this club has long been the ownership. They are not the worst owners, they give their managers power, some would,say too much, they allow money to be spent, but as posted recently on here recently, they are way too slow to react when things go south, they are also naive at best on some aspects of the game in this country.
    Read that when Usmanov announced he was selling up, a consortium of “ Arsenal people” offered to buy usmanov out for a seat on the board, and help them run the club , guess you could say the implication, the Kroenkes didn’t have a clue and needed help, perhaps a little more PR may have helped!. The names of these Arsenal people were never published but think we can guess one of them. Sadly, Kroenke declined their offer, He wanted the lot, he made a mistake in my view, and we are where we are. Just hope Mr Lewis knows what he is doing and has some sway.
    Arteta may be a problem, but he is not THE problem,

  15. Rich

    England’s best

    Arteta does hoard players, he signed Soares, then refused bids for Niles + Bellerin, then loaned out Niles 3 months later, and now Bellerin looks to have dropped down to 3rd choice right back

    He signed Mari + Gabriel, renewed Luiz’s contract, didn’t register Sokratis, didn’t register Saliba in the Europa League, and then screwed up his loan on deadline day

    Surely somebody at the club must have been able to count that w we had 8 senior centre half’s in our squad?

    Going into the season with 8 centre half’s, and no fit or registered attacking midfielders. was complete lunacy

    Going into the season 1 injury away from Runarsson becoming our No1 was beyond negligent, as was signing him to begin with

    We loaned out Kolasinac in January, leaving us with no natural replacement for Tierney, which means we’ve inevitably broken him, because we can’t rest him

    We signed Willian, when we already had Pepe, Nelson, Saka, Aubameyang, Martinelli, who all play in the same positions, we also had Willock who could cover there

    I’m really not sure what Arteta, Edu, or anyone at Arsenal is thinking when it comes to assembling a coherent, balanced, and common sense squad, everything we do is reactionary, and complete scatter bug

    We went into the season with a first team squad of 31, which is 9 too many, we’ve still got 25, which is 3 too many

    What was the point of keeping Nelson this season?

    It’s a complete wasted 12 months for the lads development, he should have been picking up 40 games in the Championship

    What was the point in keeping Nketiah + Martinelli in January?

    One of them should have gone out to pick up 20 competitive games somewhere

  16. La croqueta

    I’d also like to address this “write the season off” narrative. When does “this seasons a write off” become. “This is who we are now”?
    Think of it like this. As teams like west brom aston villa fulham Southampton or Newcastle go through the season. As they win and lose draw and drop further and further away from winning the league or getting top4. Do the fans say, “This seasons a write off”.
    They don’t right. Because they had no expectations to win the league or get top4. Which in turn allows them to accept more losses and lower league positions over the course of the season. Follow me here.

    Wengers last season was a W.O (Write off) -1

    Emerys first was a W.O. -2

    Emerys 2nd went bad. He got fired. Freddie and Arteta take over a “sinking ship” rendering the rest of that season a W.O. -3

    Now we begin this first full season for Arteta. It’s so bad. Again we’re having to say. This season is a W.O. -4

    That’s 4 seasons in a row (for various reasons) that we have WRITTEN OFF the entire sesson.

  17. Almuniasaynomore

    Valentin 9:51

    I think you’ve nailed it here. It explains why his biggest flaw seems to be relationships with players, particularly younger players and also his inability to understand when his plans capitulate, his shock such as on Saturday is genuine because his character won’t allow him to contemplate his own weaknesses. It’s a little bit too reminiscent of Wenger for many of us ,therefore the criticism is very severe as people don’t want to go down the road of the cult type leader again. It might be too late. It’s certainly becoming as divisive.

  18. Sid

    Without qualification for europe, the easier it becomes to lose ESR, Saka, Martinelli
    The tougher it is to sign quality players

  19. Chris

    Useroz

    I agree with most of that article, a fair and measured assessment if our squad also.

    This bit “ And finally, owner investment. Please stop pretending that Partey’s transfer was Kroenke dipping into his pocket. He simply guaranteed the purchase on his loans. KROENKE WILL NOT INVEST HIS ACTUAL WEALTH IN THIS CLUB.” Is the depressing truth. Let’s see what happens in the summer. Because if we rock up to the start of next season without significant squad revampment, I can’t see there being much diffference to our fortunes.

  20. SpanishDave

    We are a shambles of a club.
    Arteta is clueless hoarding centre backs, no options midfield, having a group of young players who don’t no their career plan.
    The management team are riderless backed by the gormless Edu who always looks like he’s about to go asleep.
    At the top we have an owner who is clueless about football, so he relies totally on the management team, who will just lie to him to keep their nice overpaid jobs.
    We are a laughing stock of a club now , who the hell is going to sort this out?

  21. englandsbest

    Wiglaf

    Nice to read FAIR criticism of Arteta. A rookie manager, learning on the job, of course he has made mistakes. But then ALL managers make mistakes, even the most experienced.

    I don’t need to defend Arteta. Bearing in mind the mess he inherited, he has done a miraculous job. But if Arteta arrived with a method of play and sticks to it, that does not mean he hasn’t learned from his mistakes.

    And we all know that he had player in mind for that creative midfield role but lacked the money to buy him..

    As for the GK, he preferred to keep both. Given that one had to go,, do you accept the offer for Emi or tout Leno?

    I agree he should have sold Auba and not hired Willian Too much respect for the elderly. A mistake I believe he has learned not to make again.

  22. Chris

    From F365:

    “ Nicolas Pepe
    Sorry, but I just don’t see it. We are rightly encouraged to give imported players time to settle in the Premier League, but Pepe has been here 18 months and he turns 26 next month. He’s also the fourth most expensive player ever signed by a British club. The odd flash of Europa League brilliance is nowhere near enough to justify that fee.”

    This is pretty much the unfortunate truth. There is quite frankly mad talk of selling Saka or Tierney to raise funds, but that should rightly be laughed out of the room before we could explore how much we could recoup for players such as Pepe. Again, how much money we could get back is very much in the air in the current climate, but even £20 million could go a long way towards paying for a central midfielder we are crying out for.

  23. alexanderhenry

    David Smith

    Excellent points.

    Arteta will be here for next season but as has been the case for years at arsenal, fans have to look beyond the manager.

    As a former Wenger enthusiast, I was glad when he left. The old man had lost his critical perspective on the game and squandered cash made available to him after years of austerity.
    We’re still suffering from his mistakes.

    However, at the time, I was not optimistic about the post wenger era. Why?
    Because the real direction, drive, competence and ambition of any football club comes from its ownership.

  24. Wiglaf

    I don’t think it’s fair to blame everything on Arteta with regards to the squad
    Yes he’s made what are now clearly bad choices. Martinez, Willian and Aubameyang being the worst. However, not getting rid of Sokratis, Mustafi and Saliba on time can’t be and shouldn’t be all down to the manager. It’s too much on one plate for Arteta same as it was for Wenger. He needs help from people who know what they are doing.

  25. Arsnil

    Its not Arteta’s relationship with players especially the younger players that is the main problem, its the fact that he can’t read players. In this regard he has no clue. He never learned from Pep in this regard. If you don’t produce for Pep then you are toast.
    And so then when Arteta doesn’t play players, loans players out, plays shit players week in week out then naturally his relationship with disappointed and disgruntled players is bound to break down.
    Given the panel we had at the beginning of last summer he had a good set of players to pick from. Yet he loaned out Saliba and Mavropanos who are pulling up trees in France and Germany. Balogun – no sign. Brings Martinelli on for ten minutes in the last two games only despite being an unused sub forever who looked very lively but can’t buy a start. One could go on and on.
    Instead he rewards poor players like Ceballos, Willian, Pepe, Aubamegang, Bellerin, Luiz etc. etc. with starts week after week. So if you are a young player then frusutration will inevitably set in.
    Arteta has no clue as to how to read a player, or pick the proper team which is based solely on how you play and perform. That lazy, arrogant flaky performance vs Liverpool was no surprise. Once you saw the team sheet you knew that they were going to be bested. We couldn’t lay a finger on them in the middle of the field. Embarrasing.
    So in my opinion Arteta has to go. Because it doesn’t matter if you gave him 200 million to spend next window he would still not be capable of buying in the right players and then picking them in their right positions. Blaming anybody else for the current mess makes you as myopic as the manager is.

  26. Ishola70

    David Smith

    “Win the EL and he is bombproof”

    I don’t think he wil be bombproof.

    Fans will be rightly very happy if he wins the Europa at the end of this season but the folowing season will come very quickly and then it all becomes again how he fares in the EPL.

    Fans will love the novelty of being back in the CL but this could turn sour if the club fail badly in that and the novelty of being back in the premier european competition will be forgotten. At the same time fans would probably be understanding if Arsenal put up an average display being back in the CL after being out of it for so long.

    Basically if Arteta fails again in the EPL next season and doesn’t do anything of note in the CL the situation for him is really the same as before i.e. not good enough. If he breaks into just the top six of the EPL next season as well as competing back in the CL then he has a chance to survive for another season at the club as many fans will point at improvement in the EPL as well as the CL participation.

    If he bombs in the EPL again and fails in the CL then fans will quickly point out that the Europa League however good it may be to win it at the time is after the secondary european competition on offer.

  27. Dissenter

    Glad people are beginning to see Arteta for who he truly is; a manager learning at our expense. It my have been acceptable if he submitted himself got the authority of a proper DoF. Instead the personality flawed dude did a power-grab to get himself appointed as co-equal to the technical director.

    On squad matters, Arteta is 100% clueless. He’s made more mistakes on the squad than can be counted.
    Who picks Mustafi over the dynamic young central defender that the club signed at great cost? Everyone in French football knew Saliba was better than Fofana in 2019.

  28. Wiglaf

    I’ll tell you one thing
    Wenger would have this collection of forwards purring. He’d drop ESR or Odegaard into midfield and he’d have Pepe scoring goals regularly. We wouldn’t be champions but we’d be a lot better than we are now

  29. peanuts&monkeys

    Sack Arteta. Sack that upstart rookie now!!!

    Bring in Rafa Benitez/ Favre/ Bosz . Bosz preferred. Make Balogun, Martinelli and that reserve GK play instead of Auba, Leno and Pepe.

  30. Wiglaf

    On squad matters, Arteta is 100% clueless. He’s made more mistakes on the squad than can be counted.
    Who picks Mustafi over the dynamic young central defender that the club signed at great cost?

    Oh yeah? Unlike emery who fucked torriera by using him as a 10 because he didn’t get nzonzi? Who picked a weak team (including Mustafi by the way) in our league games when we were 3rd with 5 games to go because he favoured the Europa? We needed 1 more win out of those games and he could have played who he liked.
    Who GAVE away all of our attacking players and moved our midfield to the wings and allowed teams like Norwich/Watford to pepper our goal?

    Just thought I’d add a little perspective

  31. Dissenter

    Who signed Runnarson?
    Arteta and his joker goalkeeping coach.

    That alone was grounds for a sacking, right there. The club should have made it clear the goal keeping coach had to go, if Arteta resists… tell him to resign and fuck off.
    They ignored all the data and street talk in the French media that the lad was utter crap.

  32. Dissenter

    Wiglaf
    Torriera was overrated by gooners, same way way we tend to overrate our new players.
    At the end of last season, I though Ceballos was utter class, now time has proven I couldn’t be more wrong.
    Torriera, simply isn’t that good. Emery tried him in a new role because the club didn’t give him an attacking midfielder.
    I’m pretty sure Simeone isn’t clueless, how’s Torriera doing in Spain.

  33. Wiglaf

    Torriera, simply isn’t that good. Emery tried him in a new role because the club didn’t give him an attacking midfielder.
    I’m pretty sure Simeone isn’t clueless, how’s Torriera doing in Spain.

    Dissenter
    He had 6!!! He fucking gave them all away.

  34. Wiglaf

    I agree though, Arteta has made some fucking sickening squad choices but let’s not pretend emery was any better in that regard. Fucking Denis Suarez, Dani Ceballos and Dm Torriera was his answer to wilshere, Ramsey ozil cazorla iwobi and Mkhitaryan.

  35. Rich

    SpanishDave

    Hopefully Richard Garlic and Tim Lewis are a bit more clued up, and are given the authority to hold people to account for their decisions and performances

    Right now the only people who appear to have any authority, are on the other side of the Atlantic, and are far too detached to be making any type of astute judgments

    Arsenal are a ship without a captain

    Trusting Edu + Arteta with another transfer window, seems extremely risky

    The best thing we could do is go and get an experienced director of football, with a proven track record, we need a complete overhaul of our scouting and recruitment departments

    Looking at how poorly we’ve recruited, how unbalanced our squad is, and how erratic and scattered our thinking is around squad management

    There’s clear evidence that nobody at the club has the slightest clue what they’re doing, and until we solve that leadership vacuum, I don’t see things changing

    Edu + Arteta with shared responsibility?

    What the hell is that?

    In what organisation does a department manager, share responsibility with one of his line managers?

    How do you hold people to account for their decisions, if you don’t clearly allocate responsibility?

    Arsenal is an absolute basket case organisation

  36. Almuniasaynomore

    Arsnil

    I agree with you, I think what you’ve said is what has happened. However what you are describing as his inability to read players is more likely to be his determination to pick players based on their attitude to him rather than performance on the pitch. If you think about it there is simply no way that Arteta cant see how bad Auba is on the left or how shite Willian was or how Soares was showing up Bellerin. He wasn’t picking players on performance as you said,he was picking the sycophants that didn’t question him. Players that challenged him were treated ruthlessly. It’s the behaviour of a narcissist as Valentin alluded to earlier. Quite simply when choosing his players he prioritises those who are loyal to him over those who are playing well.

  37. Valentin

    Dissenter,

    The most annoying thing with Arteta is that fake surprise of the performance and the tough man act “I am accountable for it” when everything he then says is to throw his squad under the bus.

    As soon as the team was announced, every fans knew what to expect. Try to shithouse Liverpool and nick an undeserved victory or draw. We knew that as soon as Liverpool was going to score the floodgates would open. This was a team to limit the loss and let him bask in the glow of a narrow defeat.

    I hate that underdog mentality happy to be on the same pitch than the great Liverpool team. Especially when it was not a great Liverpool team. They had two rookie CBs who were never tested.

    He can’t fool all the fans forever. He remind me of Sam Allardyce who has conned the world into believing that he caused Arsenal’s Wenger untold problems. The reality is that when you look at Dam Allardyce record against Wenger it was atrocious. The same with Arteta, big mouth small results. He has beaten all sorts of worst records for Arsenal, but if you were to listen to him, you would not know that Arsenal is on the midst of his worst seasons for decades.

  38. peanuts&monkeys

    if Arsenal fans start labelling Ceballos as a disaster now, very very soon they will brand Odegaard as one too.

    Arteta just doesn’t know how to get the best out of Ceballos.

    Arteta is shit

  39. China1

    Dissenter putting torreira in an attacking role never mind a hint of any sense irrespective of what people think of the player

    He was demonstrably a much better player in a defensive role than he was anywhere else.

  40. Wiglaf

    ValentinApril 5, 2021 12:04:10
    Dissenter,The most annoying thing with Arteta is that fake surprise of the performance and the tough man act “I am accountable for it” when everything he then says is to throw his squad under the bus.

    Val
    Oh come on!! Compared with what? Throwing his players under the bud publicly?

  41. Emiratesstroller

    David Smith

    I agree with most of your analysis, although I think that MA’s tenure as manager will be time
    limited by what happens between now and the end of season.

    1.Arsenal are still in the Europa Cup and that is now the only possible route left to the Club to
    qualify next season for Champions League. The chances of qualifying for Europa League Cup
    is now virtually nil.

    2. Arsenal are not going to be relegated, but there has to be concern about player morale if
    we get knocked out of Europa Cup. We have got a lot of games against teams fighting end
    of season relegation!!!

    3. Our squad is not fit for purpose. If we do not qualify for Europe next season, which would
    be my preferred option then I would reduce the size of our first team squad and make it more
    fit for purpose. We need to focus resources on those positions in team/squad, which need
    beefing up rather than making wholesale changes just for the sake of it.

    4. I would much rather invest in transfer market on two to three new players who are
    genuine upgrades on what we have got rather than spend money too thinly on speculative
    buys. There are enough players on our books “to sell” even if it is below expectation.

    5. What the club needs at the moment is “stability”, although I concede that Arteta may now
    be vulnerable if our season ends on a downward spiral. Kroenke bought the club, because he
    liked the culture and there is nothing to suggest that he has changed his mind.

    6. Personally I was never a fan of the Kroenke investment, because he is not a “hands on owner” nor does he have a passion for “club or football” and despite his wealth he is not going to invest “his own money” in buying success.That is not his model.

    7. The current media debate about our financial situation is actually pure fiction. There is no
    evidence that the club is in a financial mess or will be forced to sell its prize jewels such as
    Saka and Smith-Rowe. The club is in the same situation as every other club in EPL apart from perhaps Man City.

  42. Ishola70

    Valentin

    “The same with Arteta, big mouth small results.”

    lol you really don’t like his personality do you.

    I admit that also I’m not too fond of his personality. He comes across as bland to me and lacks real charisma.

    That he wears some nice clobber on the touchline at times doesn’t offset his overall personality. Thought he was bland as a player also.

    Of course fans wouldn’t care about his overall personality if he was doing very well.

  43. Sid

    A midfield with partey and xhakalson doesnt seem to be doing much better than, Torreira and Guend midfield
    AM have actually done better without Partey

  44. Ishola70

    Tierney and Saka and to a lesser extent Smith Rowe are touted to be sold because everyone knows they are Arsenal’s best and most promising players at this time.

    It’s the media trolling Arsenal at this current time.

    But if things don’t improve at Arsenal in the next few seasons then this current trolling by the media will become reality and clubs will come in for the likes of Saka and Tierney and take them off our hands. They are so obviously stand out players to purchase in this current Arsenal squad. Very obvious.

  45. Wiglaf

    Yeah I’m starting to wonder if Partey is all that. Still. First season. Let’s see how he adapts next year at 28 🙈
    He’ll be for the scrap heap in a couple of years and worth nothing if he doesn’t.

  46. Sid

    Klopp has the longstuff to play Ozan Kabak(from schalke) while Diet pep fanboys were claiming Saliba is from an inferior league

  47. Uwot?

    As for DOF.Expect the arrival of Marc Overmars.v.soon.Then things will become interesting.v.interesting.🤫

  48. Wiglaf

    There’s no way we will be selling Saka, Tierney or smith Rowe. There’s a glut of top quality British playmakers in the premier league right now and they won’t be going to Europe as the only genuine steps up are broke or preoccupied elsewhere
    Tierney is class but who can afford him that doesn’t already have a class left back? United are the only team I’d worry about and they won’t be taking more than one.

  49. Sid

    So partey(turns ’28’ in june) will adapt to the EPL next season, by then he will be ’29’, give us Vieraesque performances for one season then turn ’30’.
    Then we we start looking for a new DM.

  50. Ishola70

    wiglaf
    “There’s no way we will be selling Saka, Tierney or smith Rowe.”

    What never?

    If Arsenal remain a team that is insignificant in the EPL for the next few seasons then the chances of them moving on are greater than them staying especially Saka and Tierney.

  51. Mb

    Arteta is not building anything for future!

    If he was, Martinelli would have started ahead of out of form Auba.
    Nelson would still be getting minutes.
    Balogun contract extensions would have been sorted.
    Azzez might have got some minutes in easy matches.
    Saliba would be playing every match.

    Instead, we are seeing Willian, Xhaka, out of form Auba playing, contract extensions for Luiz, Elneny, Laca.

    I hated emery more than anyone, but he was still better man. Saka, ESR, Nketiah, Nelson.

  52. Ishola70

    “Not now. That could all change the following summer but we won’t be selling any of those 3 this year”

    yeah very unlikely they will be sold this year but a real danger in the future if Arsenal don’t improve to any great extent.

    And is always almost the case with good players it won’t be about whether Arsenal sell them off. It will be the players own wishes and individual player power that will see them get the move away which they desire for their own personal careers.

  53. Tony

    Arteta had the same look as Emery had just after the final whistle of the EL final.

    One of sheer disbelief.

    Looking forward to the fans back at games.

    Going to be interesting to see what more fans think about Arteta?

  54. Rich

    We’re 9 points off 4th

    That’s not insurmountable with clever and astute recruitment, and better squad planning

    I’m just not convinced the people running the show are capable of clever or astute recruitment, and better squad planning

  55. Ishola70

    Tony

    “Going to be interesting to see what more fans think about Arteta?”

    They have some banners around the empty Arsenal stadium regarding Arteta.

    One banner read “Arteta – The Good Looking One”

    wtf is that about?

  56. Wiglaf

    If Overmars does come I really hope he brings Dennis into the fold
    I’m sure Arteta would detest the idea but maybe he needs his feathers ruffled a bit
    I’d love to see if Dennis could click our attacking play into gear. I bet he’d work wonders with Odegaard and ESR

  57. Dissenter

    When we were up 3-1 against Leeds, more project-minded manager would have brought on Martinelli to get some minutes, instead Arteta brought Aubameyang into the game.

    I became convinced Arteta is truly just using Arsenal to finish learning the manager’s trade when he subbed in Aubameyang when we were one man down against Wolves.
    Who puts in Aubameyang when you’re down to 10 men?, He’s that player that’s most lacking in industry off the ball and desperation on the ball.
    A more project-minded manager would have brought Martinelli at Wolves.

  58. Valentin

    Ishola,

    It is not a question of not liking his personality, but of not liking what he says.
    If you take responsibility, take responsibility but then do not state that the players need to show big balls. That implies that they have not shown big balls. It is hiding behind the players instead of admitting that his initial instructions and plans were flawed.
    He could have just stated “Today was not a good day. We did not show courage on the ball and that something that I need to address.” That says exactly the same thing without throwing the players under the bus.

    Players listen to what a manager says during interviews and I am sure that some will be offended by his remark. Some will just think, you are the one who did not show big balls in sending us in that ultra defensive setup when they were there for the taking.

  59. Peckobill

    Wiglaf
    DB10 and arteta would never get on , a totally antithesis of each other . Arteta far to rigid in his style , you have to realise Dennis was brought up in football with the Ajax and Dutch total football style and never played under a dwindling Wenger only Wenger at his best . The only rigid football he played was at inter and he fucking hated it there

  60. Sid

    RichApril 5, 2021 12:45:15
    We’re 9 points off 4thThat’s not insurmountable with clever and astute recruitment, and better squad planning

    Clever and astute recruitment, better squad planning has NOT been our strong point, what makes you think we be good at it.

  61. David Smith

    Can see where you’re coming from ES. If you are correct about MA being time limited , well, that’s the way it should be unless he has genuine mitigating factors we are not aware of. And it is fair to say, he hasn’t been dealt a great hand with what he inherited, and events after arrival.
    I am sure MA is a very clever man and manager, I am sure he has great ideas and has learned from others, but whether he can transfer such ideas to this squad is another matter, City they are not, nor even the players of the middling Wenger when MA played for us
    players losing morale in the event of an EL knockout is a worry, and wont help anything. but some players seem to have lost focus/morale already,
    Take Auba ….he is clearly not 100% for some reason, there was his mothers illness….but cannot get away from the suspicion he wanted a move to a trophy winning team last summer which didn’t materialise and perhaps he feels he has a lucrative second best or something? or perhaps there is something else, the way we play, but despite a few goals post Xmas, he seems in some sort of funk.
    Completely agree on media reports of sales of our bright young things, just cannot see it.
    But if you are right and Arteta does become vulnerable, would love to see who they bring in next! though I have my own worrying theories in that event. I just don’t think we have the experience at board level to bring in new managers to this club.

  62. Rich

    Sid

    This was the bottom of my post

    I’m just not convinced the people running the show are capable of clever or astute recruitment, and better squad planning

    Like you, I don’t think we are capable of doing it, and if we did pull it off, it would likely be more through luck than judgement, because this lot don’t appear to recognise their arse from their elbow

  63. S Asoa

    Arsnl
    A balanced post. Giving 200 millions to Arteta is like throwing pearls to the swine. Will be fully consumed without adding substance to the pig.
    On another note …if England’s best is so daft, wonder how will England’s worst be.

  64. Nelson

    This is what I have just read about Martin Odegaard:

    Martin Odegaard is understood to be heartbroken at the prospect of leaving Real Madrid this summer, after being made available for transfer by the Spanish champions. Real are holding out for a £40m fee for Odegaard and the player himself would require a £200,000-a-week salary, putting Arsenal in a difficult position to seal a transfer without the financial boost that qualifying for Europe would bring.

  65. Rich

    Nelson

    We should put the £40 million on the table for Odegaard

    Not convinced of the £200,000 p/w though, we can’t keep setting the precedent of paying £10 million + salaries

    We’ve done Madrid a favour by putting him in the shop window, I think he’ll be in high demand, wouldn’t be surprised to see him end up at Liverpool or Chelsea

  66. Wiglaf

    Peckobill

    I agree. Maybe overmars will pull rank though and force him to adopt a more expansive approach. I’m finding our style unbearable. I switched off the Liverpool game once they went 2-0 up and I never ever turn off the arsenal

  67. Valentin

    Ödegaard may become a great player, but right now he is not as good as ESR as a CAM. Moreover he does not belong to Arsenal and we can’t afford his fee nor his salary demand, so we should plan for life without him next season.
    So let play him enough to win games but not too much that it impedes the progress of both ESR and Azeez.

  68. China1

    Yeah subbing on Auba instead of Martinelli after the game was already won at Leeds looked like a genuinely vindictive move. It didn’t make sense on any level.

    1) auba has already scored in the previous couple of games and didn’t need playing into form
    2) the game was already won and we didn’t need him
    3) we had a critical EL tie coming up in a few days which was a pointless risk when a frustrated Leeds defender could’ve hacked down Auba and injured him
    4) Martinelli was described by arteta himself as training brilliantly and was known to be fit
    5) If arteta wanted to protect the lead he could’ve brought on a defensive player, not auba
    6) Martinelli will never kick on if he’s not allowed on the pitch

    It’s was very clear that it was vindictive because there had been a bit of noise from the media before the game about why he wasn’t getting any minutes

  69. Almuniasaynomore

    Wiglaf

    It’s a biblical quote. No point in giving something of wort6to those who don’t appreciate it.

  70. Graham62

    Someone on here pointed out the other day that Arteta follows a pattern in his selection process whereby he drops players who show an inkling of form and then decides to suddenly bring them back into the team, expecting them to kick on from where they left off.

    He does and it’s wrong.

  71. Wiglaf

    AlmuniasaynomoreApril 5, 2021 14:26:29
    WiglafIt’s a biblical quote. No point in giving something of wort6to those who don’t appreciate it.

    😂
    Thanks almunia but I’m well aware of it’s meaning. I just think that Arteta desperately wants it more than anything and will spend it immediately on what he thinks we need.

  72. Almuniasaynomore

    Wiglaf,

    Sorry man,no offence. I’d be happy if we had any pearls to throw ro anyone. I used to think that there was always money there,rainy day fund,whatever,and that arsenal were simply playing the poor mouth for fear of being exploited in the market. But the dithering over Aour over the summer has me worried. I know many will blame the Kroenke’s and probably rightly so but it still means we’re in deep trouble with no war chest that we used to believe Wenger was hoarding. How has the move to the Emirates failed to establish us financially at least amongst Europe’s most powerful. Is it the wage bill?

  73. Emiratesstroller

    Arsenal would I am sure be willing to spend £40 million if that was the price to be paid for Odegaard.I am pretty sure that the combined price of selling AMN, Guendouzi and Torreira would exceed that fee.

    Second if the club decides to buy a new centre forward they could offload Lacazette, Nketiah and Nelson to cover the cost. I am fairly sure that these three combined would generate £50
    million.

    Third if we decide to replace Bellerin at right back I am fairly sure that we can generate the
    bulk of the fee by selling Bellerin and Chambers.

    This leaves two other positions in starting eleven to resolve namely Centre Back to play alongside Gabriel and a Central Midfielder to replace Ceballos and rotate with Partey and
    Xhaka.

    My gut feeling is that Arsenal will bring back either Saliba or Mavropanos to play alongside
    Gabriel. I don’t think that we are going to buy yet another CB.

    The Central Midfield will need to be resolved somehow, but I think that the club will have some funds from their sponsorship budget.

    The two other positions in squad which need to be filled are second string left back and goalkeeper. I think that Arsenal are more likely to retain Ryan and recruit someone like Bertrand who can leave on Bosman to cover for Tierney.

    Willock might return to club or be sold and it would not surprise me that one or two U23
    players are promoted as squad fillers such as a third string goalkeeper, Balogun or Azeez.

  74. Dissenter

    If you ever want to put a face on the the cult of Arteta

    englandsbest is the poster boy
    He really does think Arteta is a direct descendant of Zeus.

  75. Kenyangunner

    I will say it again here.
    There’s nothing wrong with Partey. Just age catching up with him.
    Dude must be at least 32 yrs

  76. China1

    Graham I didn’t use those exact words but I’ve said that point

    Pepe typically gets dropped whenever he’s just had a really decent game. It’s a constant stop start

    But the example of note recently was Holding. Holding has had a good season and got a lot of credit for our post Xmas form. Then suddenly got binned off permanently and has barely played for months on end now. I think holding is a solid player (not elite but he is quite good when he’s match fit and sharp). I don’t know why arteta would choose Liverpool of all games to bring him back in after such a long time without a run of games. If Luiz wasn’t available the two more logical choices would’ve been mari and Gabriel who have both played more recently (mari not a huge amount but still).

    I know people think having two left footed CBs is work of the devil (two right footed CBs is absolutely fine apparently tho lol). But yeah I just thought this was a dumb match to bring holding back. If he’s been largely sidelined for so long, don’t ask him to come back and put in his best performance against one of the best attacking teams in the world.

  77. Peckobill

    Wiglaf
    I haven’t turned off a game yet but I’ve drifted off watching and been on the net while just listening to the game a lot of times and even in a few games where we are still in it I’ve got that bored with Artetas style ( only done it this season) . I struggle to see what some say about a top notch DoF helping arteta as I’m certain one worth his salt would sack arteta . Rangnik certainly would because of his treatment of youth

  78. Chris

    Les not forget Cedric covered Tierney at left back and did quite well for a few games, he could end up being the cover for Tierney and a new right back.

    Centre midfield and a new central forward are the vital positions to look at this summer in my view.

  79. Arsnil

    Englandbeast
    “arsnil Guardiola can and could buy top players as he pleases. Arteta does not have that option.”

    Englanbeast you are so wrong in this summation. We had at the start of the year a very large panel. He in many instances such as Saliba, Mavropanos and the goalkeeper let go the wrong players. Due to his complete inability to read a player and compare one player against another he kept many duds and ever since has compounded his error by carrying on playing these duds day in day out. Fickle, flaky and ponderous nothing players. Meanwhile still in the panel you have Balogun, Martinelli and the likes that he refuses to play. Back to Pep and he doesn’t go out to buy. If you are not producing it for him day in day out then he drops the player and replaces him with another player from the squad. He doesn’t keep picking the dud day in and day out hoping for a ressurection of some kind.
    Arteta just has to go because if you show a complete inability to read a player then you should never be given a management role. Coaching, certainly. By all acounts he is a good coach from what we are hearing from the training ground (though mind you you wouldn’t have known it from the last two games) but a manager …. never. Some posters are saying that he is learning on the job with us. No he isn’t. As he keeps making the same mistakes day in day out. Some put it down to arrogance. Me, I think he just hasn’t got a clue.

  80. Valentin

    ES,

    The question is not whether Arsenal would be willing to spend £40 millions on Ödegaard, but whether this would be a good move.
    I think that at £40 millions and £200kpw he is vastly overpriced. In ESR we already have a superior player in that position , so we should look for an understudy for ESR or somebody ready for a different position. Bar Saka, we don’t have anybody Arteta trust to play LW. A proper winger is higher priority than another CAM.
    We also need an understudy for Tierney, an upgrade on Leno, an upgrade on Xhaka, an upgrade on Lacazette. Getting Ödegaard would be along to spending cash on a prettyfying the windows when the roof is leaking.

  81. Rich

    If we can pick up fees for Lacazette + Nketiah?

    Then I’d be happy to go into next season with Aubameyang + Martinelli as our striker options, and Pepe as an emergency option

    I’d rather have three technicians behind the striker

    Tie Saka + Smith-Rowe down to new 5 year deals

    Sign Odegaard, and go hard for Neto

    Odegaard, Smith-Rowe
    Saka, Pepe
    Neto, Willian
    Aubameyang, Martinelli

    Unlikely but if we could get Aubameyang out the door, I’d let him leave, and go for a player like Ivan Toney from Brentford, he’s a brilliant penalty box striker who wouldn’t be short on good delivery from the wide areas with Saka + Neto

  82. China1

    The weird thing about artetas poor rotation is we actually have had ample games this season to safely rotate a bit due to the EL.

    The beauty of the EL is like the league cup you can easily afford to blood a selection of squaddies and youngsters to let the squaddies stay sharp and the kids get some experience

    Yet here we are wondering why many of the squaddies who never play seem rusty or why our kids who don’t get picked never seem to kick on whilst simultaneously bemoaning having too many games to play because of the EL. The answer is staring us in the face the manager just doesn’t like to see it.

    Say what you will about wenger (I certainly have and do) but he understood that by and large in lesser competitions and vs lesser opposition you really can afford to play your squaddies and kids more. The pay off of doing that is far more than the ‘safety net’ of always picking your first 11 in the hope that winning will be easier but at the expense of squad sharpness, youth development and squad morale that can only be achieved by squad members actually getting chances. Then there are the injuries we are picking up to our best players like saka and ESR because we often just beasted them.

    It’s a false economy the way we’ve handled those EL games.

  83. Dissenter

    Valentin
    The main problems with Odegaard is that Madrid are not going to make their decision in an expeditious manner.
    We cannot afford to wait for them to determine whether they want to sell him and then participate in a bidding war with clubs that have deeper pockets that Arsenal.

  84. Habesha Gooner

    I don’t think Arteta is vindictive. I genuinely think he thinks seniority matters. That is shit thinking though. The only young players that are playing regularly are Saka and ESR who have made themselves indispensable. If he took them out he knows results will start to go sour. If we would get the same results with a front three of Auba, Laca, he would play that front three all season and rotate Saka and ESR. That is why I am disappointed in him. Giving seniors 9 lives when kids get one chance in a while is very stupid. It should be the other way around and that is his biggest flaw. And for that reason he might eventually fail to become a very good coach which he is capable of.

  85. China1

    Saka signed a contract extension only just over a year ago. Doesn’t he already have many years left on his deal? Unless we just want to pay him more as a thank you for being awesome, I’m not sure why we would need to renew now

  86. China1

    Dissenter I may be wrong but I think if we offered 35m real would accept within a week for Ode. They want to buy an elite CF in the 150+m bracket. They won’t be able to take part in any such bidding wars if they’re haggling over an extra few million for months on end with arsenal

    They need cash and they need it now otherwise someone like city, utd or Chelsea might just come in for Haaland before they’re even ready to come to the table and bid

  87. Habesha Gooner

    Rich
    That is how you plan a top front 4 but look at this space, we will give Lacazette a new contract. We might even do that for Nketiah too. Arteta is the ultimate hoarder after all.

  88. China1

    I also suspect very few clubs with deeper pockets than arsenal will be in for Ode.

    As long as PSG aren’t in for him, I’m not sure which other club richer than us would be after him

    He’s a huge prospect but my suspicion is because of the covid market he should be pretty attainable for around 35m as an estimate

  89. Ishola70

    Habesha Gooner

    ” ESR who have made themselves indispensable”

    If he is indespensible why did Arsenal go and get Odegaard on loan who plays in the exact same position and has been shunted out to the wing on occasions to accomodate Odegaard? ESR is no more a wide player than Odegaard. They are both strictly ACM players really. ESR was getting a few first team matches and doing well in them just before Odegaard was loaned.

  90. Chris

    Is Odegaard quoted as being ‘heartbroken’? The media have released stories about him being keen to join Arsenal as well as wanting to stay at Real, as well as everything in between. I’d take everything from the MSM with a pinch of salt, naturally.

    We should be planning to get him, but only if the fee is right. I think others have already mentioned that £35 million should nab him, the wages may be a stumbling block. He appears to be happy here, he is playing regular first team football, important for his continued role as Norway captain, he has spoken glowingly of the club and manager, my feelings are he would want to stay.

  91. Habesha Gooner

    Aubameyang has been playing poorly but he has never been a winger. Just because he scored goals from there doesn’t make him a winger.

    This season he has
    An XG of 0.27 from the wing and
    An XG of 0.57 from the Center forward role.

    Bedsides becoming less of a goal threat he has exposed us numerous times because he doesn’t track rightbacks. He is already 31. Expecting him to do that is stupid. Arteta doesn’t want to come to the realization that it must be one of Lacazette or Aubameyang. We can’t play both. Auba is a threat by running in behind. He will be more of a threat like against Olympiacos if we get him closer to the goal. He is not an incisive passer, a good crosser or a player that will beat his man one on one like a winger. It is shit decision making to continue playing him there.

  92. Dissenter

    China1
    “Dissenter I may be wrong but I think if we offered 35m real would accept within a week for Ode. They want to buy an elite CF in the 150+m bracket. They won’t be able to take part in any such bidding wars if they’re haggling over an extra few million for months on end with arsenal”

    I think you have this wrong
    Madrid need cash, lots of cash to be exact.
    They will use the 35 million offer we make as the beginning of a bidding war. It’s like the start point of a live auction.
    Odegaard will attract many suitors including the likes of PSG and even Liverpool. Didn’t you see Klopp march down the field after the game yesterday just to chat up the lad?
    If we win the EL, maybe that will turn his head.

  93. Habesha Gooner

    Ishola
    Getting Odegaard was the right decision. Even indispensable players need a breather. If we went with ESR with our anyone else in January and he got injured, we would be massively fucked right now. It will be the premier December football for the rest of the season. We needed more than one creator. That is a fact.

  94. Gbat

    Odegaard is exactly the kind of signing we should be making. He’s currently a better player than ESR. I like the balance of ESR, Odegaard and Saka.

    In my opinion we need to prioritise a Xhaka upgrade.

  95. Ishola70

    I think we need to have a ranking here about the three players Saka, Tierney and ESR.

    They seem to be always put together as if they are on a par. Well that can’t be the case can it. One has to be better than the other.

    I would put Tierney as the best out of the three which is no surprise as he is the oldest and shows a bit more maturity. Then Saka and then follows ESR.

    ESR shows promise no doubt but I think he is being a little over-rated by fans and I think one of the main reasons he is being a little bit over done is for the simple fact that Arsenal were completely starved of an ACM for half a season. So he comes in and does things a natural ACM would do but because of the starvation the fans had of an ACM what he did do and he did well was elevated because of the long absence before of such things in the team for so long.

    Don’t twist this please. ESR is a promising player. I just think he is being slightly over-rated especially when I see him keep being put on the exact same pedestal as Saka.

  96. China1

    Dissenter I think his head has already been turned by arsenal

    He seems happy. He’s guaranteed games. He has some decent team mates and most people think arsenal will improve in the coming years. He’s already here and things are going quite well and he’s already stressed how happy he is here.

    We already have an advantage over many teams because of that we are a known quantity to him unlike if he joins PSG and sits on the bench. He’s already been stung by Madrid, I don’t think he will be so easily swayed by prestige for his next proper transfer. He needs to be sure he’s playing matches, which he won’t be assured of at those other clubs.

    Plus how many of those teams will really be in for him? I suspect not many. If Liverpool don’t win the CL or make top 4 they will take a big hit financially and may not even make a bid (if they even want to) until after they’ve already sold some players which could take time

    Lastly in a covid market Ode is not being sold for huge money. Nobody is going to pay 60m or something crazy for him. Even if there’s a bidding war it will not go anywhere near pre covid levels. So the question is are real willing to wait for months and months to try and extract an extra 10m and potentially jeopardize their ability to sign the players they’re selling Ode to afford? It would be a complete failure if they did.

    As well what if they drag out the negotiations and arsenal get tired and move on someone else instead – then no one else bids a similar price?

    There is clearly risk for Real in dragging this out and no guarantees of anything. If their main priority is signing Haaland or Mbappe, then unless they can already afford these players without sales, they should be in a hurry to sell Ode

  97. Dissenter

    “Odegaard is exactly the kind of signing we should be making.”

    I agree 100%

    That said I wouldn’t hold off the summer transfer business while waiting for Madrid to make up their mind. It would be bad business to let other targets like Buendia or Rodrigo De Paul are moving for less money whilst waiting.

    We can’t do for Odegaard in 2021 what we did for Auoar last sumer.

  98. Ishola70

    Habesha Gooner
    “Getting Odegaard was the right decision. Even indispensable players need a breather. If we went with ESR with our anyone else in January and he got injured, we would be massively fucked right now. It will be the premier December football for the rest of the season. We needed more than one creator. That is a fact.”

    Fair enough.

    But you didn’t answer why ESR has been shunted out left on occasions since Odegaard arrived. That’s not having a breather. That’s being taken out of your natural position of ACM and being put out wide to accomodate another player.

    We all know the answer. Odegaard has more experience and a little bit more maturity at this time.

    So where does this “indespensible” term fit in under these circumstances?

  99. Rich

    China1

    Saka signed a 4yr deal last summer

    He’s a player on the way up, put him on a 5yr deal now, and reward him for his progress

    If we don’t do it this summer, then next summer he’ll have 2 years remaining, which will have a lot of Arsenal fans feeling very uneasy, particularly if his upward trajectory continues

    The vultures will be circling

  100. China1

    Like I can assure you if Haaland flies to England to have talks with Pep, the idea of dragging negotiations out to get PSG to outbid is by 5m for Ode will not be a pressing priority

  101. Ishola70

    Odegaard is not the signing Arsenal should be making if you rate ESR highly.

    That is contradictory.

    ESR is not a left midfielder. He is an ACM like Odegaard.

    You sign Odegaard and you will eventualy kill off ESR.

  102. Habesha Gooner

    Ishola
    Right now we haven’t got anyone that is as good as Saka on the left. So ESR plays. Maybe Martinelli can do the job but arteta is hesitant in using him. So we have no better options. That’s why he is playing.

  103. Ishola70

    Habesha

    It’s not really answering the question is it.

    You said Odegaard was brought in to give ESR a breather.

    That’s not really been the case has it overall.

    Odegaard has stolen ESR’s position in some matches in the ACM position and ESR has been put out left thus no breather for ESR. He has still played but not in his natural position.

  104. Ishola70

    Odegaard and ESR are different type ACMs and of course as said before Odegaard naturally has a bit more composure about him and maturity because of age and experience.

    Then it comes down to what ACM type do you prefer.

    ESR is more aggressive than Odegaard and this shows in that he is better at running on the ball than Odegaard but Odegaard is better in passing and overall vision.

  105. Dissenter

    I agree with Ishola regarding the ESR vs Odegaard discussion
    It’s possible to play both together but ultimately boith of them are Attacking ki9ods that can be modified to play other positions.

    Odegaard is further ahead of ESR in development because ESR’s injuries have stymied him somewhat. I’m not so sure Odegaard’s ceiling is higher than ESR’s , only time will tell.

    Odegaard was easily neutralized yesterday, that ought to give caution to all of our hyping of his abilities. He’s very very good but he’s not great in any way or form.

  106. Rich

    We need two attacking midfielders, Smith-Rowe + Odegaard can play together, or it allows us to rest one of them

    Only having one quality attacking midfielder, puts us 1 injury away from having no attacking midfielder, and there’s more chance of injuries, if we aren’t in a position to rotate

    Internal competition is also healthy, it keeps both players on their toes

  107. Samesong

    Ishola

    I would say Saka he actually sets the tone for us playing better and his ball retention and creativity has got better. He barely loses the ball. Yes he’s had the odd dip in games but that’s expected from him. When isn’t in the team our creativity goes down quite a bit.

    Remember before ESR came into the team Saka was pulling off some big performances.

  108. Mb

    Odegaard is another Dani Ceballos. Any one remember the first match Dani boy played for us against Burnley? He was brilliant.

    A year after, he is no-one.

    ESR should always start, keep Ode as back up to him. Groom Martinelli on the left, Saka on right and ffs put Auba on top. If it’s not working, put Laca in there – just don’t play them together.

    And don’t play players out of position. Not everyone is Saka!!

    Not sure how difficult it is to understand for a coach.

  109. Nelson

    Even when ESR was the lone ACM, he had a free role. He’ll appeared on the right or on the left to support the buildup of the attack. Odegaard stays mainly in the middle or slightly to the right. I can’t see why Odegaard and ESR can’t play together. ESR can continue to play his free role while spends a bit more time on the left and Odegaard on the right.

    Our major problem is trying to fit in both Auba and Laca. I would keep ESR Odegaard and Saka as the creative force and either Auba or Laca in the middle.

    If we lose Tierney for a few weeks, we may have to play Saka as LB and Pepe as RW. It is better to play all our best players.