This week is a huge one. We have a cup competition to proceed in after a leggy performance last week then we take on Leicester, with an opportunity to derail their title bid.
Gooners, this is the week. I’m telling you. It’s going to click. We’re going to be popping corks in our covid bubbles. Wild scenes as someone runs naked down the Holloway Road because we SMASHED Brenda and his team of wannabes.
There’s hope as well. Whenever we lose a game, which has been often this season, the misery brigade come out in force… because they don’t want to hear what’s brewing at Arsenal, well, someone put the #TeanmPOSITIVE news out on twitter yesterday and it’s good.
Shield your eyes, here’s the Premier League since Christmas Day. pic.twitter.com/Amb3InXSrn
— Josh Williams (@DistanceCovered) February 22, 2021
So you don’t have to do it yourself: Since Christmas.
2nd best defence in the league.
3rd most goals per game.
5th best points per game.
Am I taking my clothes off ready for a streak based on the above? No. But it adds weight to the narrative that things are getting better whether you like it or not.
When you factor in the messy hand we’ve been dealt this season, namely, our best player has been more injured this season than he ever has in his career, 62 red cards, 26 players left out of the squad, no preseason for a rookie manager, a rookie manager… well, you start to see the green shoots.
Am I forgiving the first half of the season? No. It was shite. The coach made a bad bet on Willian. Auba lost his mojo. We totally botched squad selection. We started the season believing we could be a fine margins team… this was a terrible mistake. It happened, we didn’t sack Arteta, and that’s that.
But now we have to look to the future. Many of the problems are on their way to being mended.
We ditched most of the deadwood causing problems behind the scenes.
We addressed creativity with youth and a loan player under the age of 31.
The coaching looks like it’s finally starting to kick in.
The football is exciting.
There were a lot of people saying that Pep G was trolling Arteta when he praised him after the game. I’m not so sure. Bielsa did the same. I think people forget that he made him a vital part of his backroom team for three years, he doesn’t do that as a favour. He correctly called that we’ve been the better team in most games since Christmas.
I also find the ‘HE TREATS PLAYERS BADLY’ commentary a bit painful to read. Jose Mourinho and Gareth Bale? Thomas Tuchel double subbing CHO in week 2? OGS and VDB? After years of bemoaning the Colney creche, we’ve now got feelings about binning Matteo G who dived in his own box at the weekend and cost a goal? Please. Nothing will ever be perfect, but let’s be honest, the culture at the club needed a reboot.
Last season, we fought and battened down the hatch. There weren’t many performances you could get excited about, but we were winning. Spanish Tony Pulis banter was fair.
Post-Christmas, we’re performing even when we’re losing. Performances matter, because at some point, they’re rewarded.
This week is when the performance need to convert. Arsenal need to have a 5 game run to restore some faith. If we beat Spurs, Benfica, and Leicester… it’ll go a long way.
Now is the time to make some moves. City was always a long shot. I don’t think Spurs and Leicester are on the same planet. Benfica certainly aren’t. Time to pull out the big wins.
So, short one today. Jump into the podcast if you haven’t. Enjoy your day. See you on the other side.
Graham 62 I acknowledged that Arsenal’s cachet had declined since the Halcyon days of Wenger. However, too many people who post on here attribute a measurement of support based on shirt sales and Facebook and Twitter posts. This may be a measurement of short term popularity, but it is not a barometer of genuine supporters. Far more relevance is how many people turn out and watch teams play whether in England or for that matter when travelling abroad. When Arsenal has played games in Asia or USA they still command considerable attendances. Liverpool were for two decades a bankrupt and… Read more »
andy1886
Well put.
Andy, Like you mate, I was born in the early sixties and as we both know, we had some pretty shit times including relegation battles. Some of the football in the past was so boring and bland it made watching paint dry look like a reasonable event to pay to see. Where we disagree is on whether or not we give a manager time. This isn’t a job where hire and fire will work because previous poor recruitment and transfer dealings has left us playing serious catch up. Hire and Fire only works at a club that has been well-financed… Read more »
Thx Goobergooner 🙂 I am also a realist, so if Benfica crushes us and Arteta runs it all into the ground barely avoiding degradation, then of course he has to go.
AFC
Based on the content of my 10.13 comment, would you say historically that Arsenal have overachieved or underachieved, considering the position they were in going into WWII?
Morning Emirates Yes, couldn’t agree more. The problem with young fans is that they think social media reflects general consensus when it doesn’t. If it did, the whole political landscape would be different. Perhaps the thing I don’t understand more than anything else is the way some fans, assuming the are Gooners, discredit the club, past achievements and history. When the obnoxious Mysticleaves turned on you, that summed up where we are perfect. It’s sad because those of us who have supported the club for donkey’s years understand how respected it is, we don’t need the type of people who… Read more »
Celtic looking for a new manager, Arteta anybody?
ES You are correct but if Arsenal are to thrive in future years they need to attract more youngsters to their brand. I’m a year off 60 and, like yourself, have been attached to the club for many years( 53 to be precise). We have always been a massive club with a unique and appealing image. It has been noticeable though over the past decade or so that this image has been tarnished because of poor leadership both on and off the field of play. Players like Saka, ESR, Tierney and Martinelli can be a major factor in reigniting this… Read more »
AFC I don’t condone slagging of ES, But this blog has been a rollercoaster this season between people eating arteta’s bunghole and people super frustrated at what they are watching. It takes longer than a season to turn us around I agree. But the club was meant to be turning us on a positive trajectory after Wenger. 2 hires noone really expected and we are well off the pace of where we should have been. The club finally ‘let Wenger leave’ and then went on to fuck us even further with their incompetence when we were all looking for a… Read more »
Herbs Army
Arsenal have neither overachieved or under achieved. Their business model whether you like
it or not has never been based on outspending other clubs in England.
Long term supporters understand and accept the modus operandi even if from time to time it
does not bring the success which matches expectation.
AFC
“I think the problem is, there are a lot of fans out there who have never seen us win anything and for them they have nothing to look back and reflect on.”
Also whaaat? Were they born between now and the fa cup final?
The thing with our self sustaining model is that it is enough to keep us competitive. Just not when it was latter years Wenger making the calls or Raul.
We have spent sooo much on averageness at best, where a lot of our ‘rivals’ this season have spent a hell of a lot less
Goober: I discussed this issue yesterday and pointed to issues within the wider leadership, as reasons for why we are where we are. The decision making has been poor for a number of years and it has only been since Raul left that we seem to have a structure that can support the manager properly. However, whether we have the right people within the executive leadership is an interesting point of debate.
“Who’s concerned about tomorrow night?”
Everyone should be concerned.
If we finish the season outside of European places (highly likely), the only thing that should save Arteta from the sack this summer is another trophy.
Anything less is reframing regress as progress, and Arteta should be judged by the same metrics as Emery and Wenger before him.
Thx andy1886, I been there with Arsenal since 1977 when I was 9 and all periods thereafter. When u look at the facts and evidence YOU have a good idea of the outcome! There is no blind faith here, when I look at it there is change and I believe in it, and will gladly give up on Arteta if he fails to compete measurably (trophies/ contending in CL). It just aint the time now. In my world he has got till end of season 22 if nothing real sickening is happening before that. And yes it may be that… Read more »
ES
I would argue that Arsenal’s modus operandi was completely different either side of the war.
Henry Norris ownership was far more dynamic and exciting than anything since.
Arsenal built their fearsome ‘Bank of England’ brand during the 1930’s, and I think it’s fair to say, we have never seen that Arsenal since.
Unlike most successful clubs, after WWII the club flipped its modus operandi, and became penny-pinching overcautious types, who always went for the cheapest available option when appointing a new manager.
Let’s be honest Arsenal should beat both Benfica and the foxes , we should be confident but unfortunately we are not . As other posters have pointed out the game against Benfica is the round of 32 in the Europa and not the final .If Arteta(Arsenal) looses against Benfica it will look to all that Arsenal are regressing and that would be correct .I think most fans want to give Arteta time as we can’t just be sacking managers all the time and we are almost willing ourselves to find positives with the current team which honestly as fans we… Read more »
Goobergooner
“this blog has been a rollercoaster this season between people eating arteta’s bunghole”
So childish.
Jurgen Klopp joined Liverpool in October 2015, 5 1/2 years ago. After his first year, there were calls for him to be sacked but Liverpool stuck with him. In fact, just last week a tiny bunch of idiot Liverpool fans were calling for his head – these are the FPL types divorced from reality. Klopps Premier League winning team is proving the point that it isn’t all about the Manager, it’s about the players. This could be the worst defence of a PL title in living memory and it looks like they will fail to qualify for the Champions League… Read more »
Diddums
If Arteta wins the Europa then great, but if he ends the season with no trophy and finishes say 9,10 or 11th do fans think he should be kept on or sacked?
AFC
I like most of your commentary, but calling people trolls because they don’t see Arteta as the new Jesus is also childish.
AFC Forever
Sorry, but have to call you out on your overreaction. I think Emirates Stroller is far less offended than you are by the comments on here, mostly because they are largely just fans sharing their honest opinions and relatively few trolls.
shaun –
100% sacked if he finishes trophyless and out of Europe.
He would have had 3 transfer windows, a full pre-season, and 1.5 seasons to generationally coach this ‘top 4 quality squad’ to a top 6 finish.
AFC Forever
Now you’re being dishonest. How many people were calling for Klopp’s head during his first season? Come on now.
AFC Forever
You are right of course to compare Klopp and Arteta. They both had zero top-class management experience. Neither of them had lead a team in the championship or to a domestic title.
Also AFC, I brought this up the other week, Who is going to be our Coutinho sale? We have seriously made jack shit on player sales. We have been absolutely woeful in the outgoings department, and that even includes loans (Saliba and Gnabry to West Brom). With 39 players in and 37 out for Liverpool, with a net spend of 103m. That is actually incredible taking into account the calibre of player they bought. We have literally had Wenger hoarding deadwood and trading our best asset in Sanchez for mhki instead of actual cash, we’ve had Raul edu and now… Read more »
*Champions League not championship!
And Bacary haha took the words out of my mouth
Really, Bacary?
Klopp won the Bundesliga twice with Dortmund.
Arteta even had an offer for an outcast at the time in xhaka!!!!!!!!! If only Emery stayed til the new year 😂😂😂
AFCF – I guess you coud call that ‘eyewatering’ – based on those numbers Klopp hs spent a net £20.6m per season and achieved CL qualification in every full season he’s managed them. He’s made a CL final, then actually won the CL, then won the PL after that. Very impressive you’d have to agree.
If we only look at the 20/21 season Mikel has a net transfer spend of £59m. To emulate Klopp Mikel needs to finish fourth in his first full season.
Herbs,
Facetious is the word you’re looking for
Sarcasm, HerbsArmy…
Cheers Goober.
Aha, got it Bacary , it did surprise me, knowing that you know your football.
Hahaha. You guys crack me up
Arsenal’s management of transfers has resulted in one great accomplishment and that’s bankrolling Lille to a first-place position in Ligue 1.
I’m honestly distraught that people actually think the results are going to turn around.
They won’t turn around.
Thanks Herbs. Just drives me nuts when nearly every Arsenal fan would have begged for Klopp to come here but AFC is acting like Klopp’s was lucky that Liverpool kept faith in him after his first season.
Andy1886: I think you are being a little facetious suggesting Arteta should be finishing 4th. The contexts are wildly different. For one, Liverpool are a well run outfit with a clear vision. We were an absolute mess and are only just starting to rectify the mistakes made in the past.
I think next year will look very different and if it doesn’t then we can start to look at the manager.
Bacary
Arsenal don’t have the ambition to even consider hiring a manager of Klopp’s pedigree.
We have absolutely no history of appointing a top manager (unless you count Chapman in the 1920’s).
Cheney Missed this before my bad “However, whether we have the right people within the executive leadership is an interesting point of debate.” For some reason I have more faith in edu than Arteta. I think it’s because he actually went for a proper quality CB with lots of potential and also sorted out getting Partey despite tets apparently wanting Aouar til the last minute. I would have gone for either but my preference was Partey; however considering our lack of any creativity at the start of the season, hindsight probably says we should have gone Aouar if we weren’t… Read more »
In saying that, we did need to offload CBs at the time of purchasing Gabriel. But I do believe he will be a big part of our backline over the next few seasons. Hopefully longer.
When Wenger left we were in turmoil.
When Emery left, we were even in more turmoil.
Arteta brought hope with the FA Cup success but this all backfired because of his belief that he was the real deal.
Arrogance, imo, has been his Achilles heel.
I hope we get through tomorrow night. Our season rests on this one game.
Cheney, I’m not so sure about that. Liverpool were a club that finished 6,8,7,2,8, before Klopp arrived. Arsenal in the five seasons before Arteta finished 3,2,5,6,5, a significantly better run (Liverpool average finish 6.2, Asenal average finish 4.2). Of course I don’t believe that Arteta has to finish fourth, but the comparison was with Klopp and that would be what was needed to equal his performance over the same time frame. On the ‘vision’ it was Klopp’s vision wasn’t it? He decided their style of play, decided who to sell and who to buy (including selling their star player) and… Read more »
Herbs
Good point. What’s most alarming is that there’s really no-one at the club that can be trusted to hire a great manager even if we did fire Arteta.
No worries Goober: :-)) I guess this is where we differ because I’m not completely sold on Edu due to his role during the days of Don Raul; however, I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, as he has had 1 and a half windows (Raul didn’t leave until 15th August). Therefore, as an executive team (Edu, Arteta, Vini) they have had 1 full window and managed to rectify some of the issues. It is this that gives me faith. One more widow as a solid team then things should improve if Arteta is the right… Read more »
Pierre there’s a difference between martinelli and willock/Eddie which is that whilst both may come good neither of them have really ever looked like major prospects in the PL. eddies credit lies not in his performances but in his goal scoring stats but what’s his minutes to goal ratio in the PL and at this level you have to have more than just goals thus why auba gets flak despite being one of the worlds most prolific scorers Willock has genuine talent and unusual qualities akin to Ramsey but he’s pretty much never shown it in the league, not even… Read more »
HerbsArmyFebruary 24, 2021 11:55:17
BacaryArsenal don’t have the ambition to even consider hiring a manager of Klopp’s pedigree.
We have absolutely no history of appointing a top manager (unless you count Chapman in the 1920’s).
Would this be the same Klopp who tanked in his first job at Mainz05 ? Relegated after 6 years and then resigned after his 7th year full season ?
Also, wouldn’t Wenger have been considered a top manager back when we were the first in history to go through the season unbeaten ? Admittedly he stayed 10 years too long.
David Moyes would have us higher up the table.
Arteta needs to go. There will be no recovery path for us if he is permitted to finish the season. Units dangote really buys the club.
Unless*
If klopp relegated Mainz over the course of his first job in football then what exactly are we expecting arteta to do?
He will relegate us next season.
Andy1886: Klopp indeed decided on the style of play but he doesn’t control the finances and transfers, although clearly has a say. He said as much in a recent interview. Therefore, when I say vision, I mean for the whole club… The five year plan. When Arteta arrived we didn’t have any idea where we were going and although the average league place is a compelling stat we were a club in decline and without a solid vision due to lack of club wide leadership. As I said in my post to Goober, I feel it is harsh to judge… Read more »
As well the worrying thing with Eddie is that since his only stand out feature is goals and he doesn’t score that much in the league you’re left with a player who looks a long way out of his depth.
You compare with saka esr ode and martinelli and all have looked like quality players with reasonable frequency (ode has already showed great signs). For Eddie I honestly can’t remember a game where he bossed it even if he scored
If arteta wanted auoar he should have sold xhaka and AMN/willock/nketiah.
Arteta decided on taking these players forward because he wanted them. It is his mess.
Since football resumed after WWII, Arsenal have never had anyone in their ranks brave enough to take the shackles off and really go for it. Since Bill Shankly brought Liverpool up as 2nd Division champions in 1961-62, they have been everything Arsenal are not. Arsenal have spent lost decades doing everything on the cheap. It’s not as though fans have any voice over the clubs philosophy, we can’t pick and choose, and for the majority of time, we have been expected to support an institution whose pivotal leaders and decision makers have lacked any drive or ambition for success. And… Read more »
AC: This is not Football Manager; it really doesn’t work like that. You can’t add an additional player at Chelsea and have them buy your dross for 100M+. You’re dealing with a large chain of people that makes buying and selling very complex.
There were offers for both xhaka and AMN, and Lyon wanted £45mil, completely doable to get aouar if the manager wanted to.
AC: According to the Daily Mail, yes there were offers but again, were these officially faxed to Arsenal? Were these stories dropped by agents? You can’t take the headlines as gospel, as I said it is a much more complex process than you are suggesting.
I may be wrong but to me Eddie looks like a slow burner Some kids like saka are ready to play at the top of the game before they reach 20. Cesc was another great example. Eddie to me looks like he might be one of those players who needs time at a lower PL or upper championship club where the only task of him is to score regularly. If he can play regularly he will hopefully build up his physical presence and ability to compete and look proper at this level and by the time he’s 24 he could… Read more »
Cheney, I expect that Klopp has the main say on which players he wants – surely you don’t think that they hire a manager of his calibre and then pick his players for him? As for finances as previously discussed he has a net spend of £20.6m per year so I really don’t think that he was bankrolled in the slightest. Clubs like West Ham and Everton (not forgetting Arsenal) spent more. In football terms the man with the plan was Klopp, that’s why you hire experienced successful managers, you don’t delegate football matters to accountants and lawyers and marketing… Read more »
Bergkamp63
Are you putting Mainz05 on the same level as Arsenal?
Cheney, Yeah I am definitely suss on edu under Raul, and isn’t his agent also Kia? So I think we need to get in Overmars to completely rule the roost. The more football men we have in and around the boardroom the better for the squad and fans. But I do agree to an extent Arteta edu and vinai as a collective need some time. Just too many on field and training ground politics gone wrong for me. So we will see. As much as I don’t see us going anywhere under Arteta in the longer term, I also don’t… Read more »
Cheney
The manager didn’t opt in to selling xhaka.
That is on him, he had 2 chances to sell him and didn’t.
That is his fuckup.
Instead he gave Hertha our better player on loan in guendozi.
It’s a bit odd arteta liking auouar anyway because he seems a bit of a character and we know Mikel likes his players quiet
Arteta reportedly has 2 years more on his contract.
Unfortunately we have an anti-football Kroenke hoarding real state and will baulk at paying off the Fraudeta . Guess we are stuck with the Sauce until the assets devalue to the extent it is not worthwhile to let the fans suffer more , specially the dim excuses for the man
Andy1886: I can’t find the interview now but he doesn’t have as much control as you think. A little like United and others where the manager says what he wants but then the finance guys decide what is possible. At Liverpool it is as follows: Michael Edwards is Liverpool’s sporting director, working closely with Jurgen Klopp and Mike Gordon to identify new signings and organise contracts. Do you think Klopp would have bought Davis from PNE if it was entirely his decision? As for net spend, again, I think it is a little misleading. A non Klopp signing, Coutinho, was… Read more »
HerbsArmyFebruary 24, 2021 12:32:21
Bergkamp63Are you putting Mainz05 on the same level as Arsenal?
HerbsArmyFebruary 24, 2021 11:55:17
BacaryArsenal don’t have the ambition to even consider hiring a manager of Klopp’s pedigree.
Simply stating a fact, he was a rookie manager the same as Arteta and had no “pedigree” at the time ?
Arteta has been at the club for 14 Months (3 of which has been in lockdown) and wasn’t even Manager until the 10th September if memory serves ?
“Unfortunately we have an anti-football Kroenke hoarding real state and will baulk at paying off the Fraudeta .”
Both managers under KSE at Arsenal before Arteta were sacked and paid off.
Goober: I have hear you buddy. We did lack a clear succession plan when Wenger left and in part, it sees us where we are now. I am happy to give them one/two windows to sort the squad out. If it doesn’t work once he has his own team that can maintain his style of play then I would be happy to have the debate about who might do a better job.
In Aouar’s 21 appearances this season, he’s completed 90 minutes just 6 times
That’s a real concern for a central midfielder, and for a player who apparently key to Lyon’s chances of success
I’d much rather we signed Odegaard on a permanent deal
Cheney, I agree that selling Coutinho was a great move but I’m also pretty certain that Klopp would be key to that decision. I’d also point out that he played for two seasons under Klopp which helped make his reputation and increased his value. So for example if Martinelli plays for a couple of years under Mikel and performs to the extent that we can sell him for £100m+ that’s down to Mikel, not Vinai or Edu. Klopp also improved players, Henderson, Can, Firmino, and he got more out of Milner than anyone could have ever expected. If Mikel can… Read more »
Bergkamp63
Mainz05 are a considerably smaller club than Arsenal, so its unrealistic to compare Klopp and Arteta’s first managerial job.
To imagine you are good enough to manage a club of Arsenal’s stature before you’ve managed anywhere must take a special level of arrogance, not to mention an incredible ego.
But it is more because of a vacuum of leadership at Arsenal, so not totally Arteta’s fault.
Klopp managing Mainz05 would be more comparable with fat Frank managing Derby.
Nice to see you back Valentin
But no, Poch would not have come to Arsenal . Guy has loyalty issues.
Navels man is going to Spurs , probably. Their owners might have confused priorities, but likely to pay off Mourinho alimony.
Nagelsman you c#@t autocorrect
HerbsArmyFebruary 24, 2021 12:56:24 Bergkamp63Mainz05 are a considerably smaller club than Arsenal, so its unrealistic to compare Klopp and Arteta’s first managerial job. To imagine you are good enough to manage a club of Arsenal’s stature before you’ve managed anywhere must take a special level of arrogance, not to mention an incredible ego. That didn’t stop Pep Guardiola from Managing Barcelona or the board from hiring him, he hasn’t turned out too shabby and clearly rates Arteta. I seriously doubt Arteta’s remit was to turn us into CL contenders or even make top 4, given all the clubs in Europe… Read more »
Andy1886: I agree that Klopp would have had a big role in many of the decisions that see Liverpool where they are but he is part of a team. A team that has only just formed at Arsenal. Klopp and his team change the whole side over the course of those two seasons with only Milner left today from his first game in charge. Henderson was also a full England international when he joined Liverpool too. Yes, he is an extremely good manager and he does improve players, I am not disputing that but he had time, money and a… Read more »
Great stuff, Pedro. Mikel is the man. I believe most Arsenal fans know this by now.
Won’t stop the wailers though. A small number with loud voices, they will carry on regardless,, maybe drawing breath when we win the Europa.
Brendan is a bubble bound to be burst.
Bergkamp63 Really??? Pep spent his whole career at Barca, captained them to CL success and learned from one of the games greatest players, Johann Cruyff. He wasn’t thrown in at the deep end, he took charge of Barca’s second string, taking time to learn his craft. And he was already a club legend. Arteta has none of that at Arsenal. He doesn’t have Arsenal DNA, nor is he a club legend. For me, he was a remarkably underwhelming response to the humiliation at OT, I don’t hate him, I just don’t rate him as a manager and would rather he… Read more »
If, a big if, these Aliko Dangote rumours are true, then that indeed is good news.
Very interesting that the Aretta Out Crowd take the Klopp article that demonstrates how many transfers it took him to build a team and ignore it because it says something they don’t like to hear. facts. I don’t believe any of you can really be that thick or naive so you are being disingenuous and playing with facts. Klopp made in total (in/out) transfers in the region of 80 odd players in 5 years, yet you don’t want to hear anything about it. Meanwhile, Arteta is expected to build a quality team in one summer transfer window. You guys really… Read more »
Horrible the way standards have dropped at Arsenal football club.
Let’s give the manager more time though, we’re too classy to keep chopping and changing coaches, I’m sure next season we’ll see the best of Arteta and the players even though there’s less evidence to prove otherwise
And no one’s expecting Arteta to perform miracles.
Can’t say he’s allowed to be behind teams like West ham and Villa and to have lost more games than he’s won this season
Herbs,
You will have to forgive me but that is clutching at straws in the extreme to suit your obvious agenda.
Running Barcelona’s B team for a couple of seasons is different to being Pep’s assistant manager in a far more competitive league for 3 years, in what way does that differ greatly ? Not to mention Arteta was club captain for Arsenal.
Doesn’t seem to be that much difference experience wise for both of them, unless you really want it to be to justify your confirmation bias ?
AFC
To others, YOUR views are extremist. You and I have clashed before and I am not looking for another sparring match, but I think you need to stop focussing on how other people choose to interpret what they see with Arsenal and Arteta right now.
Lots of people here have a different opinion to you, but you cant keep suggesting that makes them less of a fan or that they simply don’t like Arsenal.
For those not aware, season finishes end of May ?
AFC Forever
Klopp got to the Europa League final in his first season in charge, while Arteta lost to Olympiacos at home in the first knock out stage.
Klopp finished fourth in his first full season at Liverpool which was an improvement, Arteta is on
AFCF: Well said, totally agree.
Klopp got to the Europa League final in his first season in charge, while Arteta lost to Olympiacos at home in the first knock out stage.
Klopp finished fourth in his first full season at Liverpool which was an improvement, Arteta is on course to finish mid table.
Martinez used to play good football, he also won the FA Cup and relegated Wigan.
Azed: I think we have covered the Klopp comparisons. Different club, different set-up and a wildly different context. The same way it is difficult to compare teams from different times i.e. who is the best ever Premier League team of all time; it is difficult to compare the respective records of the managers in their first season.
Bergkamp63
To compare Arsenal and Barcelona is bizarre, and I’m not sure what point you’re making.
You obviously rate Arteta a lot more than me, is that the crux of this debate?
Matt “Clashed before” Mate, is this really a personality, thing? Jesus, I don’t keep a book of people I have disagreed with. I will agree and disagree with the same people, I do not hold a grudge. Look mate, my Klopp article this morning was to support the FACT that it takes time to build a team. If yous ee the players I listed that departed and came to Liverpool during that time, you can see what a big job it was. Imagine 80 odd in/out transfers. Arsenal was a mess when Aretta came in, it was a mess when… Read more »
AFC
I mentioned the fact that we had clashed before to make it clear that it wasn’t a personality thing at all – I find it really strange that you somehow took issue with that!?
I’ll leave you to it mate.
AFCF – Comparing first seasons then: Klopp 8th to 4th. Players in: 6 (Matip, Karius, Mane, Wijnaldum, Klavan, Manninger) Players out: 16 (Benteke, Allen, Ibe + misc junior players) Net spend: -£14.65m Arteta 8th to ? Players in: 13 (Partey, Mari, Cedric, Willian, Gabriel, Runarsson, plus misc junior players) Players out: 12 (Marinez, Mkhitaryan, Mustafi, Sokratis, Ozil + misc minor players) Net spend +£78m So the facts are that Arteta has spent more and brought in more players than Klopp at the same stage of their tenureship. The difference is that one was a proven manager who lifted the team… Read more »
WORD AFC @ 13.24
AFC really good post. I just don’t get the hysteria on here. I get we would all prefer the club to be in a better place but we are where we are. Lets see what Arteta can build. He is a rookie manager and is making mistakes but none of the Arteta out brigade have suggested better viable alternatives.
Andy1886 – thx for clarifying, now I see where u are!
And I’m not Arteta out, I’m Arteta needs to start showing genuine improvement or he’ll be out because I’m not seeing much evidence other than not being quite so bad as we were before Christmas (which is a pretty low base to start with).
B63 – Are you really suggesting that running Barca’s B team for a year is the equivalent to being a coach under Pep at City and managing not a single game?
Klopp would perform better with this squad.
That is why the klopp article is a miss. It doesn’t matter.