Drab Arsenal drop a 3/10 performance

by .

There’s no way to package that game up positively from a performance perspective. That was a 3 out 10 and it’s really hard to argue that we deserved anything out of the 90. Three shots on target, two goals, and 3 points.

You do have to win ugly in the Premier League. All games are hard. That though, was Elephant Man levels of grimness. It’s hard to really understand why Arteta changed his winning formula from last week from a team that was so very impressive. Elneny, AMN and Tierney (hip injury) all dropped out of the starting 11. In came Saka, Ceballos, and Kola. It really broke the system and it failed to click for the most part.

Our midfield dominated possession but failed to make headway into the opposition box, a constant issue. Deeper than that, Ceballos held onto the ball too often, slowing play down… compared to Mo last week he just kept the ball moving at speed. Yes, Dani was a key part of our win, but I think the performance will not have pleased the manager. I can’t imagine he was following instructions, if he was, they weren’t very good instructions for the day.

Kola was a non-entity out on the pitch. I don’t know why he’s anywhere near the squad. He’s mentally weak, he literally can’t get up for the games, and he wants out at Arsenal. It was unfortunate that Tierney picked up a hip injury, but more worrying that Arteta puts Kola in his spot despite clearly knowing he’s a bad player. How many times must he be reminded of this? Why do we have a player starting that isn’t committed to Arsenal?

Saka landed the two pre-assists. That’s some peak Alex Hleb stuff right there. However, I think you’d only call his performance good if that’s all you saw. We needed more from him out there. It was a sloppy outing, below is standard, but the sign of a class player is they still deliver when thing aren’t going well. He delivered.

Bernd Leno showed why many people had a preference for Emi Martinez. I thought he was really poor. He looked nervous for a start. He was flapping for crosses, he more often than not opted to punch, and he didn’t look in control of his box. The cross that he came out for an nearly broke his neck for was a stark reminder of how close we are to having to go with a really unsuitable keeping option. Leno needs competition, that was not the sort of game we needed to see from him after selling a keeper in purple patch.

My big positive was that Eddie and Pepe came on and both looked really hungry. I was at a table with a bunch of Gooners and we were saying that Eddie in particular needs to start impacting those 15 minutes when he’s brought on. He certainly did yesterday. He worked hard and when his chance came, he buried it. He needs a big season. Hopefully that’s a stake in the ground in a 15 goal season. He’ll need that because Lacazette didn’t look at the races again, it’s clear there’s no new deal coming and the club is going to have to sell him this window to avoid another no-fee disaster.

Ultimately, we found the tools to unlock a West Ham that looked far more organized than they have, but that sort of performance is a reminder that the old Arsenal still lurks in the wings. Bumming victories like that can be both a good sign, because it shows focus and effort, but it can also be a precursor to deeper issues further down the line.

The good thing about this coaching setup is there won’t be a celebration of that performance. They’ll be trying to fix the issues there and hopefully we’ll see a response for the Liverpool game. For me, the mistake was tinkering with a model that was working. West Ham and Fulham could have been taken down by the same starting 11 and it could have built a bit of performance momentum. I also think Arteta thinks he can change every player, hopefully the Kola performance was a reminder that there needs to be more than two players on that blackball list.

So we move on. We have 6 points out of 6. The Liverpool game is going to be a roll of the dice, but maybe a shitty run out like that one will refocus the minds in the training ground. I’d rather learn a lesson with a win, than take that sort of complacency across the board into the Liverpool game and get our backsides handed to us.

See you in the comments!

405 Responses to “Drab Arsenal drop a 3/10 performance”

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  1. Tee

    “The discussion is not anymore about Leno Vs Martinez, it is about Is Leno good enough for Arsenal?”

    I see no reason why we are even discussing this because Leno is the least of our problems. We are still anxiously waiting for our midfield to strengthened but no, let’s discuss Leno because the saviour (Martinez) is gone for good.

  2. Emiratesstroller

    There is absolutely no benefit in selling Lacazette despite some posters suggesting there is.
    Lacazette may have had a disappointing year, but he has started well this season. He is popular in the squad and has indicated that he does not want to leave.

    If we offload him we are faced with the prospect of having to replace him with yet another unknown player who may not bed into the squad immediately.

    Arsenal’s priority is midfield where you can argue we have 3-4 unwanted players and only
    3-4 players who are guaranteed a place in team or bench. All these players are AVERAGE at
    best.

    I have always maintained that we need to recruit a minimum of one new midfielder in this
    window and that the club can afford to buy such a player without being compelled to sell.
    That remains my view. Whether that player is Partey or Aouar remains to be seen.

    What concerns me is that we are delaying that decision despite the mediocrity of midfield
    performance on Saturday. Ceballos is in my view not a Starting X1 player if we are aiming at
    top 4 position.

    Another issue for me is that we must not loan out unwanted players without a loan fee +
    obligation to buy. I have no objection to instalment payments, but we want and need to get
    players off books permanently.

    Also the club needs to change direction and show that we are not a soft touch every time that Italian and Spanish Clubs come knocking and want to recruit bargains.

  3. Marc

    Emirates

    Whilst I agree with your comment in general the club isn’t being a soft touch on sales – we’re stuck with poor players on relatively high wages. Getting fees for these players is not easy to start with when the player is refusing to take a drop in salary we’re screwed.

  4. Tee

    Emirates,

    You are absolutely right but what I still don’t understand is this notion that we can’t buy without selling.

    Does it mean we are that skint that we can’t spend like 40-50M this window without selling?

    We are in for a long ride if that’s the case

  5. China1

    Lol @ guen supposedly putting in a transfer request

    Arsenal have been offering him around to anyone who will take him for the last 3 weeks and he comes back to us saying he’d like to leave as if we’re even trying to keep him here

    Not the brightest spark lol

  6. Champagne charlie

    Graham

    You might not have explicitly mentioned Martinez, but every convo about Leno naturally has those undertones of late.

    Would be interested to hear how you view Martinez as a goalkeeper, warts and all. Hearing a lorry load of criticism for Leno and his ranging abilities, but comparatively it appears nobody could fault anything of Martinez’s.

    Is that really the case? Martinez is faultless and Leno is a bomb scare on crosses, poor passer, not vocal etc.

    Seems a real stretch to me.

  7. China1

    ET you want us to not sell laca and just buy midfielders but which money do you propose we use to pay for these midfielders?

    Unless torreira guen and a handful of others are sold we aren’t buying Partey and Aouar

  8. Marko

    There is absolutely no benefit in selling Lacazette…Lacazette may have had a disappointing year,

    Yes we certainly shouldn’t be selling someone who’s having a disappointing year. Plus he’s 29 and running down his contract. I personally would absolutely sell him and bring in a back up with potential to replace Auba over the next couple of seasons. Eduoard or Myron Boadu would be good. Not like it’d be too hard to replace Lacazette let’s be honest with ourselves here his goal return or his patchy form should be replaceable and not for a lot of money either

  9. Bojangles

    I’m sure Guen’s agent has been looking but he’s finding it just as difficult as Arsenal at finding a willing buyer.

  10. Champagne charlie

    China

    Think that’s more at our request, when a player hands in a transfer request it usually acts as a measure of foregoing monies in transfer relating to loyalties etc.

    Maybe we’ve not been getting the transfer fee we want for Guendouzi and we’ve said no to the proposals thus far, unless he hands in a transfer request and forgoes some money he’d be otherwise due.

  11. GunnerDNA

    I guess Arsenal was outplayed by West Ham because Leno was in goal, so let’s resign Martinez and get the season going. Arsenal fans are super special because if the GK position is all they’re concerned about after the West Ham game it really says a lot. United fans are asking questions why Roy Hudson can get his team to outperformed United at home but at Arsenal let’s talk about a top 3 GK in the league and not why David Moyes team outplayed Arsenal in every aspect on Saturday. I hope the talk of Chelsea swap deal is true and it involves any of Kovac, Kante or Rudiger because Arsenal can’t continue with that stupid back 3 formation. Can’t have a team on CL wages and playing back 3 at home against West Ham and new promoted Fulham.

  12. Marc

    Tee

    “Does it mean we are that skint that we can’t spend like 40-50M this window without selling?”

    Yes we are broke. We were losing over £20 million a season for the last 3 seasons under normal conditions, you’ve then got to add the effects of COVID onto that. Usually the club would’ve collected a massive chunk of ST revenue (40,000 ST holders and everyone I know pays up front in a lump sum, doesn’t mean all of them do of course) in late May early June this year nothing and at the moment it’s not looking like we’ll be back in grounds any time soon.

  13. Left testicle

    There is absolutely no benefit in selling Lacazette despite some posters suggesting there is.
    Lacazette may have had a disappointing year, but he has started well this season. He is popular in the squad and has indicated that he does not want to leave.If we offload him we are faced with the prospect of having to replace him with yet another unknown player who may not bed into the squad immediately.
    ………………
    Not much logic here.
    Yeah. Let’s not try and replace any player as we may be faced with the prospect of a player that may not bed in. Using that rational we would never try to upgrade any player through fear of them not bedding in! And the quote ‘there is no point selling Lacazette’. Yes there is to cash in to buy better players!

  14. Sid

    ” Can’t have a team on CL wages and playing back 3 at home against West Ham and new promoted Fulham.”

    Back to you in the studio!

  15. Daniel Altos

    “We are still anxiously waiting for our midfield to strengthened”

    @Tee meanwhile Everton have just gone and bought a new midfield while we are still debating whether xhaka should be in the 11 and how elneny is like a new signing.

  16. Emiratesstroller

    Tee

    No the CEO has made it clear that Arsenal can still buy without making sales although it is still preferable to set off one with the other.

    I think Arsenal want to use Torreira as a negotiating tool with Athletico Madrid. My concern is that we are allowing AM to dictate the negotiations. Everyone knows that AM do not want to sell Partey and we want to sell Torreira. So we have put ourselves in a weak position there.

    Another issue is that we must offload Guendouzi in this transfer window on three counts.
    First he is disruptive influence. Second he wants to leave and third he has less than 2 years on his contract. Clearly there is not a huge queue of clubs lining up to take him off our hands.

    However, this is one occasion when I would take any offer over £15 million for this player.
    He cost us £7 million so it would be a profit. The player is not as valuable an asset as some
    believe and having a player who is disruptive and unlikely to play under Arteta is not going
    to be productive.

    Just let him go for whatever we can get for him and make sure that his replacement is an
    upgrade.

  17. China1

    Marc for a minute I read that as ‘everyone knows I pay up front’ like you’re some big shot funding arsenals transfers with your multimillion pound season ticket 😂😂😂

  18. Marc

    China

    No nothing like that – the ST holders I know prefer to pay in a lump sum because it gets it out the way. You make the payment and forget about it, if you pay monthly it’s just another expense.

  19. Ishola70

    Kovacic would improve the midfield immediately but he’s not in reach at all is he.

    Knowing Arsenal and the midfield for the last few years if Xhaka did part ways they would put in a bid for Jorginho as replacement.

  20. Emiratesstroller

    Marc

    I have already used my current credit from last season as a deposit to confirm my renewal of seats.

    However, I decided against entering ballot, because most of the home games until Xmas are
    fairly mediocre. The first home game against one of the top teams is Chelsea at end of December.

    It is clear that attendances will be limited for some time and entering ballot does not give me
    choice of games to go to.

  21. Champagne charlie

    Graham

    See that’s the crux of my issue with the whole debate. Elevating Martinez up to being this faultless keeper after 10 years of nothing at the club, absolutely mad conclusion to draw.

    Leno is being mirrored unfairly against that ‘view’. For my money the club has absolutely made the right decision given the circumstances, said as much from the outset.

  22. Jamie

    Let’s see how many goals Villa concede this season.

    I suspect the Villa defenders will cop the blame here for not protecting him enough. Leno not afforded the same luxury.

    “Leno flapped at all the crosses! Emi can’t be expected to perform without a solid back line, he’d win the golden glove if he played for Liverpool!” Something something.

  23. Marc

    Emirates

    I didn’t enter the ballot either – you’ll just end up getting “expensive” matches in the EL etc. I’m expecting a new lockdown to be announced in the next couple of days as well so I can’t see fans in the ground possibly this season.

  24. Marko

    TR7 I think Rudiger makes the most sense cause he’s out of the team now seemingly down the pecking order and he’s better than more than a few CB’s we have at Arsenal who we look like selling before the end of the window. Wouldn’t say no to Loftus Cheek though I don’t really see him pushing to start over Xhaka and Ceballos and we need players in the midfield who are starters or are going to seriously push those players mentioned. Hudson Odoi is not someone who interests me at all

  25. Marko

    Did you see any faults in Martinez?

    Oh absolutely. There’s definitely some faults in a keeper who’s been on loan 6 times in 10 years at a club before getting a decent run in the side. Also major red flags on a 28 year old keeper with 130 odd career appearances.

  26. TR7

    Ishola

    Yes, Kovacic is without doubt the best mid Chelsea have. Surely Lamps won’t swap him for Guen. Loftus Cheek is out of favor at Chelsea and Tammy Abraham could also be surplus to requirement now with Werner coming in. They if available for swap should be targeted by Arteta. Not even sure how credible these swap rumors are though.

  27. Marc

    If we sign another CB then Edu, Arteta or the pair of them are bonkers. We’ve recently extended Luiz, signed Mari in Jan, Gabriel this TW and had Saliba join the squad this summer without even going into the existing CB’s at the club. When we’re short of money and desperate for CM’s we really need to focus.

  28. Marko

    Of those 138 career appearances only only 19 have come in top flight football the rest is lower league/reserves/cup football. So at 28 he has never been seen to play any decent sort of top flight football until a 10-12 game period after an injury and in extraordinary circumstances at the end of a miserable season.

  29. Marc

    “Also major red flags on a 28 year old keeper with 130 odd career appearances.”

    Who’s run of good performances came without the pressure of fans in the ground.

  30. Useroz

    I’d absolutely sell Laca the moment a decent. C-19 offer comes in.

    Laca is 29 turning 30 and no Auba

    Laca in last 2 years of contract Must not be allowed to run down and leaving for free.

    Laca able to holding the.ball is a myth; he’s just hoarding and loses it most times

    Laca lost his pace (not much to begin with) and his goals dried up for some time.

    Yes, Laca did score in both games this season and Arteta knows it too. But he’s not being offered a new contract and that says something.

    Unlike the midfield, we have options upfront and can take a punt on another Brazilian, Japanese or … how about Edouard who probably nets off all of the Laca fee but he’s 22

  31. Marko

    Not a chance of Kovacic being involved considering their CM options only seem to be him, Kante and Jorginho over two positions. He’s also kinda vital for them

  32. Champagne charlie

    Marko

    It’s just not a reasonable pov at all. I’m fine with the idea he could’ve been here this season and proved his long term worth, but this idea he’s without fault based on 12 games?

    Just make that same comparison of a striker, here we have a striker bounced around the lower leagues for a decade and finally leads the line for 12 games in his mid twenties and scores a goal a game. Not only are we raving about his short spell (rightly), but he’s now better than our starting striker and has zero weaknesses to his game.

    Absurd.

  33. Marko

    If we sign another CB then Edu, Arteta or the pair of them are bonkers.

    I mean it’s kinda logical right. We look like losing Sokratis, Mustafi, Chambers and possibly Holding before the window and start with a back 3 and recently had Kolasinac as a LCB. I mean it depends on the formation but if he’s going with a back 3 and decides that a 5 million loan fee for Holding is too good to turn down then I can see us targeting another CB.

  34. Graham62

    Marko

    Let’s also not forget that he spent the vast majority of his time at Arsenal under a manager who was defensively clueless.

    The fact that Wenger stuck with the likes of Almunia, Fabianski and Ospina proves the case.

    I have to admit though that Fabianski has improved immeasurably since leaving Arsenal.

  35. Marko

    Charles if at any time in the last 10 years you’d have told me that one day we’d be getting 20 million for Emi Martinez and that there’d be a very vocal number of fans cheer leading his abilities as a keeper I’d of called you insane. It’s a painfully pathetic trait that’s all too familiar in this fanbase where we glorify and are unable to let go of players who were never really good to begin with. It’s why it took so long before we got rid of countless players over the years it’s why the likes of Walcott and Djourou were nearly getting testimonials another example. You know there’s people who want to bring back Ramsey and I bet you there are people out there who would take back Wilshere as well.

  36. salparadisenyc

    Never envisioned the goal keeper debate continuing on, naive of me.

    Think its worth noting when referring to Emi’s ’10 years ‘at club that keepers clearly can have a different arc than outfield players and peak later. For me he always had the tools, lacked the confidence never really been given the golden chance. Essentially needed developing. Had something like 6 different loans scattered across several leagues one in Spain and gradually found the confidence to put it all together. For me using that time as a weaponized tool against him is a bit disingenuous.

    He will now quite possibly go on to be a first team keeper for the next decade, at a high level.

  37. Marko

    Let’s also not forget that he spent the vast majority of his time at Arsenal under a manager who was defensively clueless.

    Graham you might have made a good point there if it wasn’t for the fact that Martinez was loaned out 6 times and not one of those clubs tried to sign him up permanently. So just to be clear here in 10 years not one single club tried to sign up this faultless highly rated goalkeeper who commands his box better than Custer it was only loans in 10 years. Yeah I dunno why the club went with the safer better bet in Leno

  38. GunnerDNA

    It would be hilarious to see Arsenal swap MG to Chelsea for Giroud. I know we don’t have a lot of money but we are just terrible when doing any transaction to improve the first team.

  39. Dissenter

    I don’t quite like how this Leno debate as degenerated into “Leno is a liability and always will be.” and a definite anti-Martinez slant with some routing for him to fail at Villa just to prove a point.

    There’s a case to me made that Leno doesn’t command his box, flaps at crosses and doesn’t not engender defensive unit calmness with highballs. He’s a decent goalie despite these very obvious flaws. This is independent of whatever view one may have about Martinez. It predates Emi’s brilliant 15-game run. Leno needs to wok on that part of his game.
    Martinez made the best career move for himself- he pushed for a move to be a starter and got his wishes. Arsenal leveraged his good run of form for an exorbitant fee for a reserve goalie. It was a mutually beneficial ending..

  40. Dissenter

    Marc
    “Who’s run of good performances came without the pressure of fans in the ground.”
    This dig at Emi is a low blow that just cries agenda.
    Do you think Leno would have done worse with the crosses against Brighton had there been a vociferous home crowd at the Amex. Would he have done better with that moment where he caught a ball over Ceballos and lost it falling over?

    Don’t take every Leno criticism as pro-Martinez nostalgia. Leno needs to work on his command of the box. He’s all we have now – the reserve goalie’s stats suggests Runnar is a basket.

  41. Marko

    Think its worth noting when referring to Emi’s ’10 years ‘at club that keepers clearly can have a different arc than outfield players and peak later.

    I could not disagree more with you this notion that it’s okay most keepers don’t show any signs of quality until later years is a load of bollox honestly. The difference between goalkeepers and other positions is that there’s more longevity but things like impressing and showing signs and playing consistently at a younger age like other positions is still the same. Like what you just said might make sense if it wasn’t for all the 27/28 year old goalkeepers who have 300-400+ appearances under them at the same age as Martinez.

  42. Tee

    “I don’t quite like how this Leno debate as degenerated into “Leno is a liability and always will be.” and a definite anti-Martinez slant with some routing for him to fail at Villa just to prove a point”

    You actually are doing what you are accusing others of doing.

    Leno is a liability and will always be while Martinez is …….. and will always be?

    Hope you won’t give excuses if Leno’s Arsenal performances overshadow Martinez’s Aston Villa performance?

  43. Tee

    A good goalkeeper is a good goalkeeper irrespective of age and they continue to improve till their mid thirties.

    You hardly see a goalkeeper who is average at his young age become world-class at later stage. The sample is negligible.

  44. Marc

    Dissenter

    It’s not an agenda – I would have preferred for the player to stay but he wanted out and we got a decent fee. The fact remains that he went from zero to playing well when he’d never shown any level of performance before.

    What was different?

  45. salparadisenyc

    Marko

    Fair enough but thats where our difference lies, Martinez showed quality was never average just had not put it all together into complete package. Question now is can he sustain it, I think he will.

    When Ooooospina was keeping for the mighty Arsenal I text my LG whats app group: WE SHOULD HAVE EMI IN GOAL this lil fella stinks.

    In the end Arteta had to sell and here we are, pretty sure this debate will end here and not live on 😂.

  46. Ishola70

    Yeah there is no need to shit on Martinez at all. He was part of an FA Cup winning side for gods sake.

    He did a very good job in deputising and that so many would have been quite comfortable with him staying as No.1 until Leno had a chance to take back his place is testimony to that.

    We should be thankful that a No.2 goalkeeper came in and did a very good job that was part of resulting in a cup honour rather than slating him because of insecurity about Leno.

  47. Marko

    Martinez showed quality was never average just had not put it all together into complete package.

    Again this is simply not true. He never showed quality over the ten years until the very end there he was literally the definition of average hence why getafe and the likes never tried to sign him up hence why we loaned him so much.

    Also as far you calling for Martinez over Ospina I highly doubt that ever happened and if it did I’d say you probably got laughed out of that group. You’re telling me that you wanted Martinez installed over the Colombian number one who eventually got a move to Napoli? Look I never even rated Ospina but even he’s a better keeper than Emi Martinez

  48. Champagne charlie

    “Question now is can he sustain it, I think he will.“

    This question has been/is wildly overlooked by many though Sal and I totally agree on its importance.

    Martinez did great for two months but he’s never delivered a whole season at the top flight, and that’s what I was expecting to see this coming season to earn the faith to bin Leno in his favour longer term.

    It’s a stacked deck forever at this point, Leno will live in infamy thanks to a romanticised two month stint from Martinez. Will be that way until he’s ushered out the door for someone new. Weird bunch exist within the following pack.

  49. Champagne charlie

    “Yeah there is no need to shit on Martinez at all. He was part of an FA Cup winning side for gods sake.“

    So was Xhaka, let’s see the inevitable pivot, pirouette, and subsequent moonwalk back from that reductive statement.

  50. Marko

    Ishola first off fuck off who’s belittling anyone and that’s rich coming from you. I’m just literally stating facts here. You idiots were the one to start all this nonsense anyway. I mean who watches that garbage performance on Saturday and comes away thinking you know what I wish Martinez had played instead of Leno. Yep he really would have addressed the powderpuff midfield and nonexistent creativity in the side. He commands his box that well

  51. Ishola70

    Well Charlie let’s just say I was more impressed with Martinez in deputising for Leno in comparison to our Granit and what he has offered for years.

  52. TR7

    Should have inserted a right to first refusal clause and perhaps a sell on clause in Emi’s contract. Would have done us no harm and I doubt Emi or Aston Villa would have objected to it. Leno is a very good keeper too, we won’t be ruing having him in the goal. Let us see if our GK coach can improve him further especially in the areas he’s weak at.

  53. Marko

    I get it you rate Leno more. Some of us do not.

    That’s kinda missing the point really but I mean I too would want to side step this Martinez debate when met with all the facts. We can pretend it never happened and that he’s actually this excellent goalkeeper all of a sudden if you like?

  54. Karsa

    I thought Martinez was brilliant in the games he played.

    He was asked to stay and fight for his place but he didn’t fancy the challenge.

    If he’s so superior to Leno why did he leave?

  55. Ishola70

    Marko

    “You idiots were the one to start all this nonsense anyway. I mean who watches that garbage performance on Saturday and comes away thinking you know what I wish Martinez had played instead of Leno.”

    Well I personally didn’t mention Martinez at all in regards to the West Ham game.

    All I said was that we saw some weaknesses from Leno in that match which we have seen on some occasions previously from him and that I hoped he could work on these weaknesses going forward.

  56. Marko

    Leno will live in infamy thanks to a romanticised two month stint from Martinez. Will be that way until he’s ushered out the door for someone new.

    Yeah he’s done now isn’t he in the eyes of a few. Literally nothing can be done now every mistake both real and imagined will be scrutinized and magnified from this point forward. It’s a shame but ah well at least we’ll be looking at a new keeper in the not too distant future. Still though it’ll be interesting to see how Martinez handles being first choice now. Sink or swim time

  57. Valentin

    The debate continues because some refuse to acknowledge that Leno is not a very good goalkeeper. So for them it is better to make it a debate Leno Vs Emery rather than just looking at Leno’s flaws.

    A lot people are not attached to Martinez, they just don’t rate Leno. Against high balls he did cost us goals and victory and will continue to do so. And he did it under Arteta so none of the “it was Emery’s fault” BS excuse.

    Personally I suggested thaf if we really wanted to raise funds, that we would be better off selling Martinez and loan Areola who subsequently went to Fulham. I think that Alban Lafont is also available.

    Also if we were really desperate for funds, then we could have put Leno on the market and see if there was any takers. An German international should fetch more than an unknown Argentinian entity! The fact that there was no enquiry nor a cheeky bid should tell some that maybe other clubs do not rate him as much as they do.

  58. Leedsgunner

    Apparently Leeds has £35m to £40m left to strengthen their defence. Why not offer Chambers for £15m and Elneny for say £6m and Kolasinac for £9m and have some of those funds to strengthen our midfield?

    Say what you want about our fringe players, they have plenty of EPL,experience between them and we should be offering them to newly promoted sides like it was going out of fashion!

  59. Ishola70

    He was probably told that he would lose his place once Leno was ready to come back again and he would have to wait again.

    The pecking order had already been set regardless.

    Most probably.

    Also he would have expected a bumper pay rise of course if he was told to continue as No.1 until he fucked up and risked losing his place to Leno and that would put the club in a quandary regarding wage structure. Two keepers on parallel money.

    Anyway Martinez has come out of this very well because he has his big pay rise in moving to Villa.

  60. Dissenter

    I accept Leno’s weakness, same way I accept Xhaka’s.
    Leno has a positive aggregate when the strengths and weaknesses are weighed . He’s a dependable goalie who’s too good to be number two in 99% of clubs.
    Same way I view Xhaka. He’s dependable, hardly gets injured and shows up for whatever manager suits him up. He’s made himself available for full back and central defense positions.
    I just why the same folks willing to ignore Leno’s weakness will not apply the same basis to be accepting of Xhaka- all they ever see are his foibles.

  61. Champagne charlie

    “The debate continues because some refuse to acknowledge that Leno is not a very good goalkeeper.”

    Here’s the guy with no agenda, now Leno isn’t a very good goalkeeper.

    Didn’t see that coming Val…..

  62. Marko

    So for them it is better to make it a debate Leno Vs Emery rather than just looking at Leno’s flaws

    I think that one’s for you charles. I don’t think I’ve mentioned Emery or even discussed Leno really but more talked about this pie in the sky stuff when compared to facts regarding Martinez. Like I said before if people want to talk about an upgrade at the goalkeeper position we can I personally like Anthony Lopes I like Onana I’m keeping an eye on Alban Lafont and Luis Maximiano at Sporting Lisbon who are developing well at age 21 (I know right imagine being 21 and playing consistent top flight football). I always thought under Wenger that he missed a trick on some goalkeepers over the years like Navas over Ospina and for example he missed out on Ter Stegen a couple years before we eventually got Leno. But yeah plenty of better options out there for when we eventually replace him I don’t mind Leno I think he’s about the 3rd best german keeper around and in that sense is about on par for what we’re about these days

  63. salparadisenyc

    Marko

    For the record Leno was the least of our worries this weekend, never said otherwise but for me there were certainly glimpses of his lesser command of area. Just how I saw it.

    CC

    I get your point Martinez has become a bit of folk hero after that run, what is more interesting for me is what he does next. I hope he continues on the great form, earned it but that doesn’t change fact I wished he’d of stayed and pressed Leno. Would of been ideal for club.

    As for Leno not horrible we are stuck with a very capable keeper in the end, but you are right the spotlight will be magnified for bit but not remotely as magnified if/when he takes over Germany from Neuer. We’ll see if Leno can handle the heat.

  64. Karsa

    He was probably told that he would lose his place once Leno was ready to come back again and he would have to wait again.

    That’s supposition. What Arteta actually said was that the form guy would play.

    However, the Arsenal boss denied that tomorrow’s selection is an indication that the starter is the undisputed number 1 at the club.

    “No,” he said when asked if that were the case. “I don’t treat the goalkeeping position any differently to the others.

    “I think the one that in my opinion is training better with the goalkeeping coach has the better chance to start tomorrow and my decision will be consistent like that throughout this season

  65. Valentin

    I really don’t get the argument that we need to see more sample of a goalkeeper before deciding if he is good enough. If a player has done brilliantly, you keep playing him instead of deciding that it was a fluke and that we should go back to injured player.

    With that kind of reasoning, Messi would still awaiting Ronaldinho decline. MBappe would still be with the U21. Manual Neuer would have never got his chance. Franck Rost had the experience over Neuer and was Schalke designated No1. Franck Rost (who was a decent goalkeeper in his own right) lost his place after he got an injury because Neuer did well during his replacement.
    I think most German fans are happy that the right decision to upgrade on the incumbent goalkeeper irrespective of experience.

  66. Marko

    The fact that there was no enquiry nor a cheeky bid should tell some that maybe other clubs do not rate him as much as they do.

    From your sources I bet. Look when the day comes and we sell Leno I guarantee you that it won’t be Aston Villa and Brighton (who coincidentally were right not to go for Emi Matthew Ryan is better) to try and buy him. He’ll be targeted by bigger clubs for sure.

    Also I love how you created a hypothetical and then used that hypothetical to shit on how we’ve received no bids for Leno. It’s remarkable how your brain works

  67. Ishola70

    Karsa

    Martinez doesn’t continue as No.1 on second string money especially when clubs are making noises to sign him and make him their No.1.

    And he doesn’t continue as No.2 when clubs have made it plain they are interested to sign him as No.1.

    Martinez didn’t have to stay on and “fight” for the No.1 position when he can move to another club and hike up his wages.

    He’s not a fool.

  68. Marko

    I just why the same folks willing to ignore Leno’s weakness will not apply the same basis to be accepting of Xhaka

    I mean to be fair Leno has by and large preformed well in the two seasons he’s been here compared to the 4+ from Xhaka it’s not a fair comparison

  69. Valentin

    CC,

    Confuse agenda and opinion.
    I am entitled to the opinion that Leno is not a very good goalkeeper and that he will cost goals and victories. It’s not like he never made a mistake that directly lead to a goal before.
    But yes, I’ll take the accusation of having an agenda versus your willful blindness let’s blame Emery chaotic organisation for Leno mistakes under Arteta.

  70. Marko

    for me there were certainly glimpses of his lesser command of area. Just how I saw it.

    Again you’re pivoting away from the topic being discussed which was Martinez and some wildly inaccurate stuff about him. I don’t care about what you’re saying about Leno I care about what you’re saying about Martinez

  71. Dissenter

    Marko
    Leno is just as flawed as Xhaka.
    That his command of the box is Almunia-like doesn’t mean he’s not a very good keeper.
    Same way Xhaka is a very dependable character who works his socks off for the team despite his lack of pace. Whatever you think of him, every manager that Xhaka has worked under disagrees with you because they keep playing him.
    Isn’t 2 years of watching Leno enough of a sample to judge him?… your 2 years Leno vs 4 years of Xhaka comment doesn’t cut it.

  72. Marko

    but not remotely as magnified if/when he takes over Germany from Neuer. We’ll see if Leno can handle the heat.

    Eh ter Stegen? Sal are you okay

  73. Marko

    Whatever you think of him, every manager that Xhaka has worked under disagrees with you because they keep playing him.

    I always love this argument being put forward. It’s like we haven’t gone through 3 managers and declined as a club.

    Isn’t 2 years of watching Leno enough of a sample to judge him?… your 2 years Leno vs 4 years of Xhaka comment doesn’t cut it.

    Way over your head it went. It’s got nothing to do with time it’s more about how Leno has performed well in two seasons compared to Xhaka’s questionable 4. You get it now? It’s okay if you don’t

  74. Valentin

    Marko,

    Enlighten you with your wisdom. I need a good laugh.

    Your assessment of the world is as limited than your view from the post office room.

    Let’s start with players.

    Still think that Pepe is a glorious gem that could eclipse Thierry Henry?
    Too obvious, so Let’s talk about coaches.

    Remember when you keep telling me how Emery was the best coach and Rennes and their coach was crap. I argue that we need to revisit where both coaches ended up in a few years.
    Rennes are in the Champion’s League, while Emery has been bummed out of Arsenal.

  75. Karsa

    Ishola

    Martinez doesn’t continue as No.1 on second string money

    I thought he turned down an improved 60 grand a week contract?

    Anyway, I’liked what Emi did when selected and genuinely wished he would have stayed.

    I’m merely suggesting that it may just be possible that he took advantage of a golden spell of form that could possibly have come to an end at any time.

    If we could only keep 1 goalie it just makes sense to me to choose the one who has shown consistent form over years not weeks.

  76. Tee

    “Apparently Leeds has £35m to £40m left to strengthen their defence. Why not offer Chambers for £15m and Elneny for say £6m and Kolasinac for £9m and have some of those funds to strengthen our midfield”

    Just like that? If it’s that simple

  77. Ishola70

    Well Karsa if he was offered a pay rise as we have heard he was not guaranteed to keep his No.1 place.

    So he moves and gets his pay rise plus guarantee of No.1 at Villa.

    Logical for him to move on.

  78. Tee

    “With that kind of reasoning, Messi would still awaiting Ronaldinho decline. MBappe would still be with the U21. Manual Neuer would have never got his chance”

    What kinda comparison is this? Barcelona did everything within their reach to purchase Messi to the extent of even taken care of his medical bills to rectify his hormonal deficiency.

    Mbappe’s talent was there to be seen. Same applies to Neuer.

    How can you compare these excellent talents with a guy who has been moving round different leagues on loan and non bid for him?

    I stand to be corrected, did Martinez ever represented Argentina at any under age tourney?

  79. Thorough

    Divine Sherlock.
    Aussie Gooner Leno just played his second game back from injury. I agree that he is not commanding like Martinez but that save from Antonio was good as it gets . I think communication is key with Leno , hope it gets sorted in training.

    Gabriel played his first match in 6 months, in a different league, and won MOTM hands down.

    Secondly, with Martinez in goal, Antonio won’t have the slightest chance of nearing a cross into our 6-yard box, so there wont be any shots to save.

    Leno is just so average. Well be looking to replace him next year.

    And if Arteta and Edu buy Raya then they would have proved our points that they’re dumb. The money they made on Martinez would have been lost anyways.