Bartering season is HUGE opp – don’t blow it on super-agents

by & filed under News Review.

Well good morning to yah! Feels maybe a little too early to dive into FA Cup stuff, we’re still dealing with the dusty remnants of the Premier League season.

I think universally, there is a deep worry that Raul and Edu are going to do exactly what they did in January and dial-up their best pals Kia and Canales and let them handle the summer.

What is happening right now in the press is a reflection of that… or, it’s posturing from said agents to try and get their clients a move or a new deal.

We were linked to Kurzawa in January. I’ve suspect Kia used his faux ‘I’m actually on the board at Arsenal’ business card to secure a new deal for his full-back. That’s part of the grey world he’s creating for himself, his not so subtle powerplay that he can use speculation around Arsenal because it’s clear it ‘could’ be true.

Yesterday, the morning started off by saying Willian was going to sign for Chelsea. By the evening Fabrizio and Steinberg had said he was leaning on Arsenal because we’d give him a 3-year deal. Smoke? I had been told this deal was as good as done before the covid outbreak. So I would say there is a high probability Raul is once again plotting to pull Arsenal back into the top 4 by dishing out a longterm deal to someone that will have no resale value after 3 years, and someone that’ll likely want a huge pay rise to join. These sorts of deals are bad for Arsenal football club and they keep us on the same track that has given us little resale value in our squad and drained the coffers of wages.

£180k a week, which is what I’d imagine he’ll command at a minimum, could be spent on 4 top youngsters from Europe, one of which might bring us in Matteo like revenue. Why oh why would you invest in Kia again, when the business sense is in rectifying the huge problem we’ve got with bloated wage bills and players who don’t want to leave. If we had an actual CEO, they’d scrutinise this deal, the value, and our historical track record of getting shafted everytime we make these signings (Cech, Gallas, Silvestre, Yossi), and veto it. Raul should be told to come back with something a little more creative and he should be told that it is looking very odd that he keeps going back to the Technical Directors agent for deals.

Here is why Willian would be bad business:

Mustafi didn’t want to leave last summer, now he won’t this window because he has an injury, but last season, it was rumoured he liked his deal.

David Luiz was brought in on a front weighted deal that worked out to about £200k a week.

Sokratis has leaked to the press he doesn’t want to leave he wants to stay and fight for his place in the first team. He knows there’s no chance of that, but he likes his huge contract that no one else will give him.

We rinse and repeat these horrible deals then blame Stan Kroenke for not spending enough money. Here’s the thing, Chelsea are a very clever club, if they don’t have a 3 year deal on the table, you have to ask yourself, why?

Expense > Deprectiating talent > Better value in youth

Don’t even get me started on a £27m loan deal for Coutinho who commands £250k a week. Sure, he’s an exciting player, but how are we in a position to chop everyone’s salary by 10%, but then take on a player with a hugely inflated deal who has tanked at Barcelona? He is literally called out as one of the worst deals in history in Spain and they’ve made quite a few shocking errors of late.

The only person that should be getting the big money this summer is Auba and even there it is a risk if you wanted to be truly forward-facing.

Thomas Partey is rumoured to be on the table still, we’re apparently trying to swap a player with them, some saying LT. Brilliant move. A player we can all agree on, for starters, he’s actually on the up. We need a 6. He’s athletic, he’s technical, he’s played in a Simeone press so he’ll be driven and outrageously tuned for discipline. That would be a monumental move for Arsenal.

… but it doesn’t matter if you then go out and bring in a whole crop of souring older players in his backdraft.

A proper club would address the issues and reset a transfer strategy that has us in 8th. We know the core problems at Arsenal are centred around creativity and athleticism. Our scouts and analysts should be compiling lists of players that fit the criteria. We have sharp scouts and elite analysts, they are good, they just need to be activated. You’ll have the obvious names at the higher end of our budget, but the data crunchers should be identifying different tiers of risk. Players that have the attributes, but need a bit of coaching. Players crushing it in lower leagues that might need longer to adapt. Players that have outrageous talent but are bench-warming under a new manager that doesn’t like that (PV04 > Milan).

We don’t need to spend this summer forking out for expensive loans. We should be exiting players we know we don’t want, drastically lowering our wage bill so we are a leaner business, and we should be starting the process of bringing in young talent of varying experience we can coach and kickstart our selling process. The culture reset needs to be harsh because the rot is so deep. The talent reset needs to look different to the last 5 summers.

Mikel Arteta has to be a strong voice in these conversations. Raul likely railroads Edu, because I can’t believe the Brazilian arrived here with the same taste in players as Canales, Kia and that other hanger-on. If he doesn’t speak up, he’ll become Emery MKII, bemoaning a Pepe signing because he didn’t have the gravitas to force a move for Zaha. We missed out on 3rd this year by 10 points. I am sure if Mikel had been in at the start of the season, we’d have been more competitive. Those were an easy 10 points to make up. However, it won’t be like that next season. We will need mid-70s to compete. That means we have to make up 20 points in the league.

Spurs will invest in an already good squad.

Chelsea have added 3 absolutely top class players already.

United don’t have a great manager, but they throw huge piles of cash at him, there’s simply no way Jadon doesn’t progress that side up the table

City are about to drop £300m

Liverpool might not spend wildly, but adding Alcantara makes them better, and they are the smartest team in world football. They won’t miss.

Leicester will build. Everton will build. Wolves will build.

Blowing our money on more loans, more average free transfers, and names that don’t come from the on-staff talent reccos will see us swim around in average. I don’t want to battle for 5th again. That is not Arsenal level.

We have options this summer.

  • Torreira – 30m
  • Guen – 40m
  • Lacazette – 40m
  • Hector – 30m
  • AMN – 30m
  • Auba – 50m (if his dad is to be believed)
  • Holding 15m
  • Sokratis 5m
  • Kola 10m
  • Xhaka 30m
  • Reiss 20m

I’m not saying all those players should go, or that the values are bang on, but I am saying they are bartering chips in a market that is looking for security (players will leave to get a longer deal, because who know what happens with covid in round two). Someone raised the point that a lot of the players won’t want to leave the UK. We have more money and it’s easier to stay put in a world of pandemic. So there could be a lot of swapping locally. I think if the Arthur deal showed anything, clubs are willing to put cash on the books to help their balance sheets, so we know a big name like Lacazette is going to be appealing.

However you cut it, there are ways to bring in players… the swap mechanic is going to make this a once in a lifetime chance to get players off the book, and take players from financially stressed clubs, of which there are a lot.

So let’s not blow it with another year of Barca-lite bollocks that we know won’t move us forward.

Interestingly, stories are popping out about Arteta bringing in new coaches this summer. I mentioned this a few weeks ago, but I think there will be a big shake-up in Arsenal’s backroom. I think you’ll see a lot of staff leave as the club continues to trim and reshape for a much, much leaner year where we’ll likely be 10% down on stadium revenue.

That’s why it is inconceivable that on the one hand we can ask players and staff to take a hit financially, but on the other, gift out huge fees to agents that offer us absolutely fuck all value.

Right, see you in the comments.

386 Responses to “Bartering season is HUGE opp – don’t blow it on super-agents”

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  1. Champagne Charlie

    TR7

    Saka can have a better football brain than numerous, doesn’t mean he’s capable of delivering a consistent output as a first team regular for us. Having a senior player in front of him would do nothing to stunt his ability, and everything to protect the club from the natural growing pains of a teenage player.

    With due respect, Saka can look as good as he wants right now but what he does in the next 18 months is impossible to predict. Arsenal don’t have the luxury to bank on him, Martinelli, Joelson, Nelson etc. We should have a capable side with these guys providing boosts in quality.

    The season is long too, put Willian in front of him and he’s still playing 30 games in a season. But if we’re reliant on Saka week after week I’ve no sympathy for the club when we fall short of are targets. Talents need protected as much as exposed.

  2. The backpass

    “I stand by my comment that he has a better footballing brain than Zaha and it would be silly to reduce him to a back up choice.”

    Saka is always going to be a back up choice for next season. I don’t see what you guys see in Saka as a Winger.

    LB,LWB or LCM you can see the special player he is and can be, but not as a Winger “Yet” anyway.

  3. The backpass

    “The season is long too, put Willian in front of him and he’s still playing 30 games in a season. But if we’re reliant on Saka week after week I’ve no sympathy for the club when we fall short of are targets. Talents need protected as much as exposed.”

    Exactly.

  4. WengerEagle

    the backpass

    Havertz isn’t an 8 though, he’s an out and out forward player. A bit similar to Griezmann in that he excels playing centrally just off of the striker.

    I can’t see how he fits into that, can only presume that Frank’s thinking Ziyech out wide right, Pulisic out wide left and Havertz playing just off of Werner with a CM pivot of Kovacic-Kante maybe.

    Leaves you with Mount, Gilmour, RLC, Odoi and Barkley to worry about keeping happy which may be easier with Gilmour as he’s a kid but harder for the others who are proven PL talent at this stage.

    A lot of egos to keep placated, be interesting to see how they manage it.

  5. WengerEagle

    And it looks like Franks given up on Tammy Abraham as the CF.

    Fact that he was dropped for an ancient Giroud for the crunch period says a lot. As he’s PL proven I think that he’ll get sold as Lamps loves Giroud and trusts him in the bigger games so we’ll see him fill in for Werner over the course of the season when the German’s rested.

    Abraham will probably fetch 25m ish in the current market as he’s a decent CF albeit raw and has a lot of development left to do. Probably won’t ever kick on to that top level but a very good option for an Everton level of club.

  6. Marko

    You got to get in there early Marko and coach young talent

    Right but the likes of yourself and Charlie aren’t talking about paying paltry sums when they’re young you’re talking about likely large sums for the likes of Zaha and Graelish.

  7. Marko

    I like Saka a lot but if he’s primarily a starter for us next season then we ain’t challenging for shit it’ll be more or less of the same.

  8. The backpass

    WE
    “Leaves you with Mount, Gilmour, RLC, Odoi and Barkley to worry about keeping happy which may be easier with Gilmour as he’s a kid but harder for the others who are proven PL talent at this stage”

    Lampard loves Mount, he will shoehorn him into the starting eleven but i agree with the others, love to see how Lampard manages him.

    I think Project Abraham is well and truly dead, wouldn’t be surprised he scores this Saturday though.

    It would be lovely if he( Abraham) went back to Villa, they don’t have a good striker.

  9. The backpass

    Marko

    “Loftus Cheek could be a decent pick up”

    He hasn’t really kicked on since coming back from his injury, solid player though.

  10. The backpass

    I quite like Musa barrow (bologna), his playstyle is similar to Mane…. But buying him effectively stunts Saka development 😂 , but he is certainly one to watch for.

  11. Marko

    I definitely hope for another Martinelli/Saliba signing this summer. It’d be great if it was a regular thing to look at and sign up really highly rated young prospects. A good habit to have

  12. Radio Raheem

    Barrow is a good shout. Hasn’t got great stats yet but using eye test look a level above Nketiah. Same with Leao at Milan.

  13. The backpass

    RR

    “Barrow is a good shout. Hasn’t got great stats yet but using eye test look a level above Nketiah. Same with Leao at Milan”

    Definitely, miles ahead… I quite wonder what Arteta sees in him though.

    Regarding Leao, we should have gotten Ocampos instead of Edu.. I don’t know how he keeps finding them, definitely the dortmund of France.

    Leao bought in 2018 from sporting for free sold to Acmilan 2019 for €27 million Euros.

    Pepe bought in 2017 for €10 million sold to us for £72 million.

    Osimehin bought for £13 million in 2019 and sold for €60 million.

  14. Un na naai

    MarkoJuly 28, 2020 17:29:52
    You got to get in there early Marko and coach young talentRight but the likes of yourself and Charlie aren’t talking about paying paltry sums when they’re young you’re talking about likely large sums for the likes of Zaha and Graelish.

    Marko
    I’m not talking about Zaha because I don’t think he’s worth anything near £50-60m+
    I think Grealish is
    But that’s not the point. The point of the debate was that there is value to be had on these shores. And that’s the truth. I’d rather we spend low on an under the radar signing (especially now) and develop them than waste our budget on 27-28 year olds who never quite made it at the top clubs. How often has that worked for us outside of Bergkamp, Sanchez and David Platt?
    We aren’t being smart enough in the market. I think Saliba Pepe Martinelli and Tierney could all be world class and top premier league players as early as next season so I think a lot of the business has been smart. Just not smart enough when you consider the money spent on ozil, Aubameyang, Lacazette, Mkhitaryan and Luiz in the last 3 seasons

  15. Un na naai

    MarkoJuly 28, 2020 17:32:01
    I like Saka a lot but if he’s primarily a starter for us next season then we ain’t challenging for shit it’ll be more or less of the same.

    We ain’t challenging for shit next season anyway. We are qualifying for the champions league. That’s our target.

  16. WengerEagle

    Barrow is an amazing prospect, great shout.

    He’s capable of playing wide or through the middle, he’s a very good dribbler/passer and he’s scoring for fun over in Serie A. 6 foot albeit has a slight build which he can no doubt bulk up a bit, still only 21.

    He’s owned by Atalanta but they already have Duvan Zapata a world class CF option and Luis Muriel who’s another top CF and is scoring at a laughably high rate off the bench.

    Definitely gettable for 35 million ish and is the exact kind of player we ought to replace Lacazette with. Can play LF and have Auba playing through the middle too.

  17. Champagne Charlie

    “Right but the likes of yourself and Charlie aren’t talking about paying paltry sums when they’re young you’re talking about likely large sums for the likes of Zaha and Graelish.“

    Again you’re taking the top shelf talent and equating it to the norm. That’s not what I’ve said, and my view of domestic talent isn’t confined to this window.

    Already said Buendia, Aarons, Deulofeu, Sarr, Ake

    You’re equating the “value” of them having PL experience (which is my point), with the value of the transfer fee.

    You need to switch on to what’s being said because you’re arguing the wrong thing from the wrong angle.

  18. Radio Raheem

    Edu brought in to look the other way as one poster on here said. There are enough qualified people for the job in Europe so can’t see why bring Edu in through an agent too! Raul is quite simple to think we’ll all be taken in by Edu being an ex-player. There is always some spin what they do it seems. We need more technocrats not these marketing types: all flash no substance.

  19. WengerEagle

    Outs:

    Kolasinac- 10 million
    Guendouzi- 10-15 million
    Xhaka- 20 million
    Lacazette- 35 million
    Chambers- 10-15 million
    Bellerin- 15 million
    Sokratis- 5 million
    Nelson- 5 million
    Mkhitaryan- 10 million
    Elneny- 5 million
    Mavropanos-5 million

    That’s close to 150 million you’d generate in sales and out of that list you’d only really miss Lacazette and not to any terrible degree at that.

  20. The backpass

    WE

    There are some players you watch them once and you know what they are capable of, Barrow is one… Fantastic player.

    I’d prefer he stays in Italy next season to continue his development, I wouldn’t be shocked if Liverpool went for him though.

  21. Freddie Ljungberg

    WE

    Kolasinac- 10 million – maybe if we’re lucky, he’s on high wages

    Guendouzi- 10-15 million – we’ll get at least double that for him

    Xhaka- 20 million – I’d take a rusty screwdriver for him

    Lacazette- 35 million – tops

    Chambers- 10-15 million – injured, not going anywhere

    Bellerin- 15 million – we’ll probably get more if we decide to sell him but can’t see that happening, maybe if we’re lucky and he pushes for a move

    Sokratis- 5 million – about right if he doesn’t decide to sit on his contract
    Nelson- 5 million – doubt we’re sell=ng but we turned down 20m for him last summer so 5m won’t cut it either way

    Mkhitaryan- 10 million – we already gave him away for free, saved us about 12m in wages and bonus fees.

    Elneny- 5 million – Would be great, only rumour is Besiktas want him back on loan and pay half his wages

    Mavropanos-5 million – on loan at Stuttgart for next season, not getting sold.

    Think Torreira is on the chopping block too, should be able to get 25-30m for him.

    If we can get rid of Ozil and only have to pay half his wages we save another 9m

    There’s moves to be made for sure this summer to raise cash if we’re ruthless enough and get lucky with buyers.

  22. Marc

    Un

    That is too low but he’s got plenty others to high, personally I doubt we’d raise that much from those players – he has missed off AMN.

    My concern is that we’re going to have to sell to offset losses before selling to buy. People don’t seem to be doing the math on where we are.

  23. Freddie Ljungberg

    Marc

    There’s talk of us having a 30m budget without EL..

    We came in 8th and our squad needs a massive injection of talent still even after 2 years of repairs just to not fall further behind, there would be fucking riots if we sold off players just to pay off a deficit in the budget. Can’t see that happening.

  24. Marko

    You’re equating the “value” of them having PL experience (which is my point), with the value of the transfer fee.

    Right but transfer fee is of course very important and my point still stands that premier league experience is still overrated. If you’re good enough you’re good that we should narrow our view to signings with premier league experience is rigid because it keeps us from picking up potential bargains or even better quality elsewhere. Like I said before I hope that isn’t a route the club is going down and I don’t think it is thankfully.

  25. WengerEagle

    If we sell that list, I’d like to see this squad for next season:

    GK: Leno, Martinez [Sorted]

    RB: New RB, Cedric, AMN.

    CB: Saliba, David Luiz, Holding, Pablo Mari, Mustafi. In an ideal world we’d sell Mustafi and bring in a new CB but don’t see this happening. [Sorted]

    LB: Tierney, Cedric, Saka. [Sorted]

    CM: Need at least x2 players here to go along with Toreirra, Xhaka and Willock. I don’t see Xhaka getting sold so think people will have to get accustomed to that thought unfortunately. I’d like us to bring in 3 players in midfield maybe 2 depending on what happens with Ceballos. Ozil again is here to stay for another year bleeding us dry too.

    LF/RF: Pepe, Saka, Martinelli. We’re really light on options here so I’d like to see us bring in 2 players, one for each side.

    CF: Aubameyang, New CF, Martinelli, Nketiah. Someone like Musa Barrow would be perfect as Auba’s eventual successor and a player that would make a big impact now along with Martinelli. Both much more versatile forward players than Auba/Laca too.

    I’d be tempted at cashing in on Nketiah as I don’t see him cutting it at the top level personally. If he’s happy to stay on and be a Cup striker, fine.

    So we need x1 RB, x3 CM, x2 wide options and x1 CF. Haha 6-7 new players sounds too ambitious for Arsenal, doesn’t it? I’d settle for 4-5 provided they could all make an impact straight away on the first team and improve us.

  26. Marc

    Freddie

    Doesn’t matter what people think – we were losing money with EL football and we might miss out on that now. ST revenue could be almost non existent and the impact of no or limited fans in the ground on other match day revenue.

    We rolled the dice last season and lost big time, which could still get worse. My usual take is see what happens and ignore the media bullshit but right now I can’t see things looking anything but dire.

  27. WengerEagle

    Unn

    Eh, he’s pretty shite. Not cut out at all for the top level. I’d take 5 million just to get him off the wage bill, doesn’t add anything for us. Maybe could fetch ten.

  28. Marc

    Freddie

    “It was the screwdriver that convinced you huh?”

    I’m just glad you didn’t suggest a boomerang it’d come back with Xhaka attached to it!

  29. Champagne Charlie

    Marko

    Of course, it’s “overrated” which is why Pepe is getting the ‘first season in England’ treatment.

    Swear players on the continent just tickle your balls better.

  30. WengerEagle

    Marko

    He’s still on the books is he not? Roma were haggling over the fee cause their miserly fuckers, trying to get it below ten million.

    Well funny enough he’s done very well over there and he’s still under contract so we should be able to get ten plus for him.

  31. Victorious

    Kolasinac- 10 million
    Guendouzi- 10-15 million
    Xhaka- 20 million
    Lacazette- 35 million
    Chambers- 10-15 million
    Bellerin- 15 million
    Sokratis- 5 million
    Nelson- 5 million
    Mkhitaryan- 10 million
    Elneny- 5 million
    Mavropanos-5 million

    This must be some joke! Could as well give them all up for free,lol

  32. Marko

    CB: Saliba, David Luiz, Holding, Pablo Mari, Mustafi. In an ideal world we’d sell Mustafi and bring in a new CB but don’t see this happening. [Sorted]

    Sorted indeed. What is it with people thinking that it’s okay to forget about the defence because all of a sudden they realize what a shit show the midfield is. Fuck me that the midfield is a disaster doesn’t change the fact that the defence still is a priority to fix. None of our defenders are good enough there’s a massive lack of quality in that area

  33. WengerEagle

    Freddie

    Yeah and look much of it depends on the player’s ambition to play football again in the case of Kolasinac, Xhaka and Ozil who AW out of the goodness of his heart stuck on six figure plus a week wages.

    We all know by now that we’re already honeydicked by Ozil and that he’s here to stay and bleed us dry but you’d hope that Kola at 27 still has some semblance of playing ambition and Xhaka too if Arteta wants to upgrade.

    A Bundesliga club would happily take Kola for reduced wages.

    Bellerin’s so clearly shot, knees are never the same post ACL and his game was stupidly reliant on his pace to cover up his on ball weaknesses and reading of the game. Again you have to hope that these thing don’t get by Arteta.

  34. Victorious

    Willian is a freebie and might be coming because we’re keeping the powder dry for midfield,That’s where the big bulk is going into this summer

    Think Guen and Tore will leave and well sign Partey and maybe Buendia/Szobozlai

  35. Marc

    There have been a lot of rumours that Kolas wife wants to go back to Germany – that might help us with him lowering his wage demands but we won’t pick up serious money.

  36. WengerEagle

    ‘Sorted indeed. What is it with people thinking that it’s okay to forget about the defence because all of a sudden they realize what a shit show the midfield is. Fuck me that the midfield is a disaster doesn’t change the fact that the defence still is a priority to fix. None of our defenders are good enough there’s a massive lack of quality in that area’

    I don’t like any of them myself other than Saliba and Holding but come on fella, Mari and Saliba are new signings and Luiz is clearly an Arteta favourite which leaves Holding and Mustafi, the latter of which we ought to replace which I said didn’t I?

  37. Marko

    Of course, it’s “overrated” which is why Pepe is getting the ‘first season in England’ treatment.

    Very overrated given most of the premier league’s best players are imports with no prior experience in England.

    Swear players on the continent just tickle your balls better.

    Nah it’s more partially based on the fact that I don’t anything with xenophobic undertones and based on past examples. As I said before had we gone down the route you’re thinking we would have never signed up some of our best players over the years. But again luckily it doesn’t seem like Mikel is likely to go down that road given his comments on past Arsenal players like Cazorla, Rosicky and Fabregas.

  38. Un na naai

    Eagle

    He was one of the highest rated youngsters in the country before he went to Germany and Arteta thinks he can be a top top player
    I understand he’s not looked very good at senior level but he’s had a handful of appearances for arsenal and not all players develop as quickly (psychology) as Saka or Michael Owen

    He may never. But I don’t think he’s shit. His issue is mental. He is desperate to make a good impression and either freezes or over does it

  39. Champagne Charlie

    “Nah it’s more partially based on the fact that I don’t anything with xenophobic undertones and based on past examples. As I said before had we gone down the route you’re thinking we would have never signed up some of our best players over the years.“

    Such a puerile argument, it’s honestly a waste of time with you on some subjects because you refuse to even open your ears to what’s being said.

    Now it’s xenophobic to consider players with PL experience a bonus to adapting to Arsenal and letting us hit the ground running next season – a season we need bounce back in.

    Unreal comment. Going full Marko as per usual when transfers are concerned, fingers in ears not paying a lick of notice to what’s being said.

  40. Freddie Ljungberg

    Marc

    Yes, we’re losing money from Europe and no fans but we have also cut costs elsewhere so I don’t think it’s as bad as it seems.

    Kroenke buying up our loan is supposed to free up 20m a year and we don’t have to keep 36m in the bank as security.
    We slashed a fair chunk off the wage bill last summer (come at me with your 1 year old “proof” that we didn’t Val)

    I don’t think we’ll spend a lot but we can improve this team significantly with a negative net spend.

    Ceballos on loan – Soumare – Szoboslai midfield sorted, less than 60m (excluding VAT)

    Disasi or Gabriel 13-25m CB sorted.

    Anything more than that is a bonus, would throw in Joelson too as a rotational option for Saka if we can get him for the reported 13m.

    Between 85-100m total and addresses pretty much all our weaknesses with long term top talent.

    Guen, Torreira and Laca would cover the bulk of that outlay with the rest covered by selling all the rest of the dross we can get rid of, fully doable imo with cash to spare.

    Just as long as we stay away from big names on high wages and short term deals we should be fine.

  41. Victorious

    Kolasinac- 10 million
    Guendouzi- 10-15 million
    Xhaka- 20 million
    Chambers- 10-15 million
    Bellerin- 15 million
    Nelson- 5 million

    WE

    Your speculated figures are all over the place imho

    Guendouzi was brought in for 7M and having established himself as a starter with over 100 senior appearances for the club will go for 10-15M? No way

    I think somewhere 30M considering his age and potential

    Nobody is buying Kolasinac for 10M,will bite off the hand offering 5M

    Nelson will fetch way more than 5M

    We rejected 27 M for Xhaka in January now after some major improvement in his overall play we’ll now sell for 20M? Not happening,Don’t think Arteta will sell him this summer anyway,so mute point.

  42. Freddie Ljungberg

    Don

    “He may never. But I don’t think he’s shit. His issue is mental. He is desperate to make a good impression and either freezes or over does it”

    Agree on Nelson, he gets nervous whenever he steps out on the pitch for us in a PL game.
    Still, we apparently turned down 20m for him last summer and he’s English so in the unlikely event we’d sell him it wouldn’t be for 5m.

  43. WengerEagle

    Unn

    I thought that too and there was a pre-season game last summer at the Emirates against Lyon where he was great. Attacked his full-back every time he was on the ball and looked really dangerous.

    But every time I’ve seen him competitively he’s been shocking. Like Bambi on ice bad. Was a time I forget against which team but he was beaten to a one vs one opportunity with the keeper by a lumbering CB in a foot race.

    Definite marks over his talent and a huge one over his mentality. He was actually considered a squad player for Hoffenheim because Nagelsmann didn’t trust him to start games and he was phased out of the team despite the amazing goalscoring streak he went on at the start of the season.

    You’re right though somebody likely pays us and takes a chance on him.

  44. Un na naai

    Very overrated given most of the premier league’s best players are imports with no prior experience in England.

    Marko
    The biggest flops in the premier league tend to be big money imports. That’s why there is a premium on proven league quality. That’s not to say that it’s not worth spending on quality foreign players. No arsenal fan I’ve ever discussed football with has or would say that post bergkamp.

  45. Un na naai

    Eagle

    Maybe. I’ve been a bit surprised as I expected more from the hype but he’s got to be showing something behind closed doors that he’s not bringing to the big boys pitch to be so highly regarded. Shame.
    I couldn’t stand having my girl friend come and watch me when I was younger as it would effect my game. Couldn’t imagine a stadium full of people. That’s why elite personalities always go to the top and not always elite talents

  46. WengerEagle

    Vic

    He hasn’t played over one hundred games has he? Says on wiki 82 apps. And he’s been one of our worst players, prospect my bollocks. Who would be stupid enough to pay that kind of money?

    Re Kola, Nelson and Xhaka, ok great even more money to spend so. And who bid 27m for Xhaka by the way?

  47. Marc

    “We rejected 27 M for Xhaka in January now after some major improvement in his overall play we’ll now sell for 20M? Not happening,Don’t think Arteta will sell him this summer anyway,so mute point.”

    Well that’s wrong, wrong again and unfortunately right.

    Berlin’s bid was low 20’s not 27 million, now we’ll sell for £20 million – you might have missed it but there’s been a global pandemic that’s fucked all sorts of industries especially those in leisure / entertainment. Club’s have seen a huge drop off in income and now we’re seeing regional spikes kick off all over Europe.

    The only thing you got right was Arteta will want to keep him – at least it’ll give Arteta a title for his autobiography “Why the fuck did I do that?”

  48. The backpass

    Victorious

    “Guendouzi was brought in for 7M and having established himself as a starter with over 100 senior appearances for the club will go for 10-15M? No wayI think somewhere 30M considering his age and potential”

    We are simply not getting 30M for Guendouzi..

    He has two years left, every club knows we are trying to sell him due to his attitude, 20M more like.

  49. Champagne Charlie

    Un

    Skip it, he doesn’t listen to some things. We had the same debate last summer when fans were weighing up Zaha and Pepe and he dismissed it then, but also acknowledges Pepe hasn’t performed as well this season….because he’s adjusting to the league. It’s a puzzle only he can figure out, you’re wasting your time.

  50. Un na naai

    Sorted indeed. What is it with people thinking that it’s okay to forget about the defence because all of a sudden they realize what a shit show the midfield is. Fuck me that the midfield is a disaster doesn’t change the fact that the defence still is a priority to fix.

    Marko
    Because Arteta has proved that he can shape our defence into a formidable unit against the best sides in the country already with confidence at -100

    But he can’t shape our midfield into a creative attacking unit that brings the best out of our forwards. As evidenced against Brighton and villa.

    That’s why the priority needs to be midfield and preferably creative, ball playing game changing mofos

  51. Freddie Ljungberg

    Don

    “Because Arteta has proved that he can shape our defence into a formidable unit against the best sides in the country already with confidence at -100”

    True to an extent, but onky because we went ultra defensive and played like a championship side with 7 defensive players in a low block.
    We got pretty lucky too, it’s not something we should aim to replicate next season.

    Only reason we’re playing 5 at the back with 2 deep lying midfielders is because we lack quality and pace at CB and CM so we pack the middle to negate that. It then affects our attacking play.
    Arteta has said something is getting done in the summer about CB so hopefully we bring someone in with the needed characteristics.

  52. WengerEagle

    Unn

    In every academy you’ll hear of otherwordly talents that never go on to cut it at the top level for reasons boiling down to their mentality/commitment.

    Always find it incredible that the likes of Ferdinand, Alex Ferguson, Giggs etc say without hesitation that Ravel Morrison was BY FAR the most gifted young player they’d ever seen and made Pogba in the same team look bang average at youth level. But the latter went on to become an elite CM and a World Cup winner/multiple Scudettos while the former couldn’t get a game for Lazio and fucked off to Mexico in his mid twenties.

    Same in the Sporting Lisbon academy back in the early noughties. If you were to ask any scout, the three best players in the academy were Fabio Paim, Ricardo Quaresma and Cristiano Ronaldo, in that order. Ronaldo himself was quoted as saying when Utd signed him ‘if you think I’m good, you should see Paim’.

    Ronaldo of course goes on to become a generational talent and one of the greatest ever players while Quaresma goes on to have a pretty successful albeit for his talent underwhelming career passing through Portugal and Turkey.

    And Paim? Last kicked a ball professionally for a Lithuanian club in 2015. The guy is 3 years YOUNGER than Ronaldo for context.

  53. Jamie

    Buy! Sell! Buy! Sell!

    Going to be lots of disappointment here when the window slams shut. Looking forward to seeing what Arteta can do with this squad next season.

    His pre-preseason was garbage if we’re being honest. Winning the FA Cup would be quite incredible.

  54. Marc

    “Because Arteta has proved that he can shape our defence into a formidable unit against the best sides in the country already with confidence at -100”

    Well all he’s got to do now is get it to perform against the likes of Brighton, Villa, Watford and the Spud’s.

  55. WengerEagle

    Do you still like Zaha CC?

    For me he’s had a pretty poor season, dipped from the previous one. I wouldn’t want him for the money that Palace will demand.

  56. The backpass

    Un

    “Because Arteta has proved that he can shape our defence into a formidable unit against the best sides in the country already with confidence at -100”

    Also, Arteta has requested for a defender, hopefully Edu/Raul work something up.

  57. Un na naai

    Marc
    He’s missing 3 of his first choice centre halves through injury with another £27m signing incoming.
    That’s 4 centre halves.
    Notice Marc that every time he loses a centre half his system goes off kilter
    Happened after chambers and we wobbled
    Happened after Mari then we wobbled
    Happened after Mustafi then we wobbled.

    He needs a full roster of fit centre halves this season.
    Midfield players are fit. They just aren’t good enough in the opposition half and there ain’t enough creative variety

    It’s why Pepe is being marked out of games because our opponents know he’s the only one with a bit of creative magic and they double up on him.

  58. Marc

    “Also, Arteta has requested for a defender, ”

    Am I the only one who worries about this? Don’t get me wrong I’m always up for better players but Arteta’s resigned Luiz, has made noises about keeping Mustafi, signed Mari and has Saliba coming in.

    Arteta’s like a fat kid in a sweet shop,problem is he still seems to think he’s got the wealth of a Sovereign Oil fund behind him.

  59. Un na naai

    MarcJuly 28, 2020 19:35:54
    UnNo worries – how you finding things in the real world.

    Real world?
    Well I’ve been seeing bright orange armadillos swirling around my bedroom wearing sombreros and shaking maracas and participating in some form of tribal ritual dance. Could be the real world. Might be the ayahuasca though

  60. WengerEagle

    ‘Am I the only one who worries about this? Don’t get me wrong I’m always up for better players but Arteta’s resigned Luiz, has made noises about keeping Mustafi, signed Mari and has Saliba coming in.’

    Yeah this. Is why I put it to Marko and he has yet to reply, we’re not going to have this great shake-up at CB. Maybe add a body and that’s only if we sell Mustafi.

  61. Champagne Charlie

    Weagle

    I do, mainly because we want a winger and Willian is on the cards. I wouldn’t fling money at a wide player (CM for that), but I’d 100% have him for the rumoured 40 mil over Willian if we can be creative and throw Holding their way, with Nelson on loan or something.

    Woy has been bemoaning an old squad and admitted again Zaha is desperate to leave, so I think they want him gone at this point.

    He’s had a shit season, which is why Palace can’t charge the earth, but I like him for the ability he has and how I think it would translate to us. I’m not going to knock him much this past year, he’s fallen out with the hierarchy big time after the debacle last summer and pretty much pouted since.

    But he’s comfortably top 6 quality and I think he’d be great in a three with Auba and Pepe. Knows Pepe too so potential for some chemistry there.

  62. Un na naai

    Same in the Sporting Lisbon academy back in the early noughties. If you were to ask any scout, the three best players in the academy were Fabio Paim, Ricardo Quaresma and Cristiano Ronaldo, in that order. Ronaldo himself was quoted as saying when Utd signed him ‘if you think I’m good, you should see Paim’.

    Weagle
    I remember watching Portuguese u21 play england u21 way back then and Queresma was unplayable. Ronaldo looked very good and did some great things but Queresma looked like he was going to be the daddy. Barca paid like £23m for him or something didn’t they?
    Had all the talent.

  63. Un na naai

    Cc

    What happened to Lemar and Depay? Thought they were your go to? Would you prefer Zaha over those two? And if so, because he’s already adapted to the fastest and most powerful league in the world?

  64. Marko

    Charles I hear what you’re saying that you want to target players with premier league experience and I don’t. You think it’s of vital importance but I don’t you citing Pepe and Zaha again kinda falls flat considering Zaha has been garbage this season and Pepe despite clearly adjusting to the league and playing in a dysfunctional team this year still posted numbers comparable to the very best season Zaha ever had. Point stands premier league experience is overrated every example you have of someone struggling I can give you an example of someone not.

  65. The backpass

    “Arteta’s like a fat kid in a sweet shop,problem is he still seems to think he’s got the wealth of a Sovereign Oil fund behind him.”

    Lol.

    We plan on selling Holding, Sokratis, and possibly Mustafi ( regardless if Arteta likes him or not).

  66. TR7

    Chambers and Mustafi are injured and thus unlikely to be offloaded. Luiz is Arteta’s fav. Saliba, Mari and Cedric of course will stay. Mavrapanos is already on loan. Holding and Sokratis are the ones who will be on the chopping list. Sokratis won’t fetch much. I am afraid Holding will be sold for financial reasons.

  67. Un na naai

    Only reason we’re playing 5 at the back with 2 deep lying midfielders is because we lack quality and pace at CB and CM so we pack the middle to negate that. It then affects our attacking play.

    Freddie
    Yeah I was thinking the same today actually whilst driving through London. But I also thought that it would better to bring in some creative attacking players and keep to the same system rather than the alternative which is
    But better defenders, push our midfield and forwards up the pitch but then still have nobody to unlock the opposition when the inevitable shut out comes
    And just say we went out and paid £50m for Upamencano. Do you really think that’s going to change our defence overnight and we will become a better attacking team?

    Do you think we will win more games next season if we signed two quality midfielders or one £50-£60m centre back and if a centre back worth that would choose to come to arsenal?

    I don’t. Which is why we really need to take baby steps now.

  68. Un na naai

    Point stands premier league experience is overrated every example you have of someone struggling I can give you an example of someone not.

    Marko
    The biggest flops in the premier league tend to be big money imports. That’s why there is a premium on proven league quality. That’s not to say that it’s not worth spending on quality foreign players

  69. The backpass

    The thing is during the pandemic break Ornstein said Arteta wanted to sign a CB, CM and a winger long before Mari and Mustafi’s injury.

    A CB was always on the cards.

  70. Marko

    The biggest flops in the premier league tend to be big money imports.

    Really? Probably enough English prospects from academies that failed to make it in the premier league to counter that argument. Anyway the whole thing is pointless it looks as though Mikel isn’t so narrow minded when it comes to signings.

  71. Freddie Ljungberg

    Don

    I think the Upamecano ship has sailed, he’s signed an extension and his release is £53m.
    Could see us signing Gabriel or Disasi though that would still be a big improvement on what we have.

    Of course CM will have to be improved too, and we need a CAM, that’s a given.

    Mustafi, Mari and Chambers will miss the start of the season so we’ll be very thin in that department so someone is coming in. I just hope we go for young with high potential over another over the hill stop gap.

  72. WengerEagle

    Charlie

    Yeah he’s no doubt a gifted wideman but do you not think that he brings some of the same deficiencies with him that Pepe suffers from main one being his ball retention/combination play? Both are natural dribblers and prefer taking on their marker than linking up with the midfield but they have a tendency to hold on to the ball for too long and concede possession.

    He also doesn’t add enough in the way of end product for me, certainly not for the money he’d cost. We need somebody to give a dig out to Auba on the goal front, a wideman that scores us 10-15 goals in the PL alone. All of the other top 6 sides have these in Mane, Salah, Sterling, Martial, Rashford/Greenwood, Pulisic, Son.

    After Auba this season our top PL scorer is Lacazette with 10 goals and he’s a CF.

    Pepe has only scored 3 PL goals from open play. Zaha has scored just 1 PL goal since matchday 17 and four PL goals in total.

    That’s putting far too much goalscoring strain on Auba considering we don’t have a goalscoring CM either.

  73. The backpass

    April 17 2020

    Answering questions in a Q&A on The Athletic, David Ornstein claimed Arsenal are mainly looking to strengthen in three positions this summer: central defence, holding midfield and attack. However, who they bring in will depend on sales.

    Ornstein lists Mari, Soares, Mustafi, Xhaka, Torreira, Aubameyang and Lacazette among those who could affect purchases. Obviously, Mari and Soares are currently on loan with options to buy, so taking them up or not will affect Arsenal’s summer requirements.

    As for the rest, they’re all decent-to-high value players the media have linked with moves in recent months. If a few of them leave, that simultaneously increases Arsenal’s budget and their need to make signings. In that case, transfers seem much more likely.

    Ornstein confirms Dayot Upamecano was previously a target for Arsenal, and Huss Fahmy went over to Leipzig in early 2019 to hold talks. But it’s not clear whether the Gunners are still after him now.

    Arsenal also reportedly looked at Ruben Dias, Akanji, Tarkowski and Caceres on a free last summer, before signing David Luiz. It’s always possible they go back in for one of them.

    There are plenty of reports flying around about centre-backs at the moment. Expect the holding midfield and forward rumours to pick up after the season ends.

  74. Champagne Charlie

    “What happened to Lemar and Depay? Thought they were your go to? Would you prefer Zaha over those two?“

    Better fit than those two, plus the added bonus that he’s PL proven. He can create from nothing, and receive the ball back to a defence, two huge misses in our current…..Arsenal.

    “I hear what you’re saying that you want to target players with premier league experience and I don’t. You think it’s of vital importance but I don’t you citing Pepe and Zaha again kinda falls flat considering Zaha has been garbage this season and Pepe despite clearly adjusting to the league“

    I never once said it was vital, I said it’s potentially of great a benefit to sign players that need no adaptation to English football – a really basic statement as I see it.

    Also no, it doesn’t fall flat, because Zaha having a shit season at Palace suggests nothing about how he would’ve fared at Arsenal last season. Pepe’s subsequent adaptation to the league strengthens the view that a player who was already adjusted would’ve been better suited, all things being equal.

    Again, PL experience is only ‘overrated’ when it comes to a player you don’t fancy. Most sensible fans acknowledge that someone who’s performed in the league has less unknowns vs a player coming from another league. The ball is round, pitch is rectangle levels of obvious, but you still dismiss it on your transfer ego trip.

  75. WengerEagle

    Marko

    You were incredulous that we wouldn’t have a re-shuffle at CB when I posted the potential squad but with Luiz re-signed, Mari and Saliba being new signings along with Holding and Mustafi what are we likely to see?

    Mustafi being sold and replaced at best.

  76. WengerEagle

    There’s definitely merit to the argument that PL proven is a plus for a potential signing. As Unn points out, the vast majority of big money flops are overseas imports.

    Having said that, there’s far better value as a rule to be found abroad as opposed to the PL. I mean a guy with ability comparable to Grealish who while clearly a talented player can be found on the continent for a third/half of the price.

    We’re not United so we can’t afford to spunk 125 million on 2 PL players.

  77. The backpass

    I don’t think Saliba would be a starter next season IMO.

    Mari : injured for the start of the season

    Luiz : useless in a back 4

    Mustafi: injured till October

    Holding : sold

    Sokratis: sold.

    If we don’t sign a CB, our starting CB next season would be Saliba and Luiz.

  78. Un na naai

    Really? Probably enough English prospects from academies that failed to make it in the premier league to counter that argument. Anyway the whole thing is pointless it looks as though Mikel isn’t so narrow minded when it comes to signings.

    Marko
    That’s true if any of Europe’s top leagues
    Got to serie A and see how many Italian youth team players have fallen by the way side. Same with Portugal, France, Germany and Holland.
    But most teams in this league can’t afford to spend £30m on a player and wait for him to adapt to the league in a year or two so they go for someone whose more likely to have proved he can already do it here

  79. Champagne Charlie

    “Yeah he’s no doubt a gifted wideman but do you not think that he brings some of the same deficiencies with him that Pepe suffers from main one being his ball retention/combination play?“

    Yea that’s a definite concern, but I think Zaha suffers from being the man at Palace which is evident in his output. Stinks of a player that gets the ball every game and tries to do everything himself.

    Would have to figure out if that’s him dismissing his teammates ability, or if he’s a selfish cunt. I think it’s the former tbh because when I’ve seen him at International level there’s more team play there. Likewise with his G/A, I think in a side like ours he’s upping the end product.

    End of the day he’s a player I rate and the only reason he’s getting a mention again is we’re sniffing around Willian, Zaha is kicking his way out of Palace, and the transfer market is weirdly swap infused this year thanks to covid. Sensible fit imo all those things considered.

  80. Marko

    Also no, it doesn’t fall flat, because Zaha having a shit season at Palace suggests nothing about how he would’ve fared at Arsenal last season

    So Arsenal having an awful season and on its third manager doesn’t have any baring on Pepe’s first season? Truth is Zaha is a bit overrated if we’re honest even his very best season wasn’t that impressive.

    Again, PL experience is only ‘overrated’ when it comes to a player you don’t fancy.

    It’s not hard to get it’s overrated because there’s plenty of examples of players with no experience going on to do well in the premier league. It’s also overrated because some of the examples given despite their premier league experience aren’t as good as some other comparable players in la liga or the bundesliga or serie a etc etc.

  81. The backpass

    Marc

    “I thought the Mari deal was permanent or at minimum a loan with a compulsory buy clause.”

    Yeah, its Permanent, think they made it official after his injury.

    But Ornstein said we were planning to sign a CB during Lockdown.

  82. Un na naai

    Having said that, there’s far better value as a rule to be found abroad as opposed to the PL. I mean a guy with ability comparable to Grealish who while clearly a talented player can be found on the continent for a third/half of the price.

    Weagle
    Of course there is (better value) because the world is a massive place compared with the British isles and a much bigger talent pool to work with and is comparatively poor so more likely to find cheap diamonds in Africa but there’s still value to be had here if you get there early enough

    That kid that went to villa from Barca from WBA for £1m recently could be a prime example

  83. Un na naai

    Weagle

    Grealish two seasons ago was a £20m player, Coutinho was £140m
    Sancho was a £9m player, Dembele went to Barca for £90m
    Henderson was a £20m player, Pogba went for £80m
    Robertson was an £8m player, Bendy went for £50m
    There is value to be had

  84. WengerEagle

    Food for thought as well that some big money PL signings have been disasters namely off the top of my head:

    -Drinkwater
    -Schneiderlin
    -Fellaini
    -Luke Shaw
    -Andy Carroll
    -John Stones
    -Sigurdsson
    -Benteke

  85. Marc

    backpass

    I still take anything a journalist says with a container ship load of salt. We have Mari, Luiz and Saliba as new or resigned players – we only need more unless he’s going to go long term with 5 at the back which is not something I thought he wanted to do.

  86. Champagne Charlie

    Marko

    Just give up on the subject, you’re so obstinate. Nobody is claiming players with PL experience trump foreign imports every time, it’s a bullshit equivalency nobody is agreeing to.

    What’s being said is that PL experience can be a big help in getting a player to adapt right away. Pepe is an example of this, and a pertinent one given he was a huge portion of our budget last season. The onus was on him and it’s been flat *insert every reason under the sun*.

    Apply that to this season where for arguments sake 6 new players arrive, we will do nothing if every one of them is having fanny pains from adjusting to English football. Hence the merit of a Willian, a Zaha, a Mings, an Ake, a Buendia etc.

    Last time I’m addressing the subject.

  87. Samir

    I like a bit of football manager, sell the dross.

    ——————Martinez————-
    ———–Saliba–Luiz–Tierney——–
    –Bellerin–Partey–Xhaka–Saka—
    ———-Pepe–Auba–Zaha———–

    In a perfect world we’d have got Hakimi before Inter for the RWB position. Also, Xhaka replaced with a all-round CM.

  88. Marko

    Yeah apparently we’re looking for at least another CB. I don’t discount two if the club is able to get rid of Sokratis, Holding and Mustafi because apparently the club wants rid of them. In that scenario (fingers crossed) it’d leave us with Saliba, Luiz and Mari going into the new season which is risky to say the least. But you never know Arsene Wenger once went into a season with one fit CB and forced into turning a LB as a CB.

  89. WengerEagle

    Unn

    Of course there is and I think that Tierney at 25m will go on to prove to be a snip even though he was SPL.

    Gems to be found in England too but they are just much more available abroad which is where we ought to be doing the bulk of our scouting/transfer activity.

  90. Un na naai

    Freddie LjungbergJuly 28, 2020 19:59:53
    DonI think the Upamecano ship has sailed, he’s signed an extension and his release is £53m.
    Could see us signing Gabriel or Disasi though that would still be a big improvement on what we have.

    Freddy
    But my question to you is this- Will we win more points by signing better defenders or better Creative midfield players? Our defence which could be better is closer to where it needs to be than the midfield. Much closer. Even if the personnel is sub standard
    You can coach a defence on the training ground and improve it. You can give it structure and make them better through repetition.
    You can’t do that in the final third. You can’t teach some players to see that pass or to take three guys out with a bit of skill. You either have that in your game or you don’t. That’s what we are missing.

  91. Marc

    “Our defence which could be better is closer to where it needs to be than the midfield”

    It’s not only unfair but almost impossible to judge any new CB’s when they are playing with zero midfield in front of them.

  92. Un na naai

    Better fit than those two, plus the added bonus that he’s PL proven. He can create from nothing, and receive the ball back to a defence, two huge misses in our current…..Arsenal

    Charlie
    Even if palace want for him what it would cost to get both Lemar and depay of reports are to be believed?

  93. Champagne Charlie

    Weagle

    Ability predominantly drives a lot of those names, I don’t think they struggled to adapt to the league as much as they weren’t nearly as good as imagined.

    But there’s been numerous cases of players being bang average here and excellent elsewhere which points heavily to how they’ve handled moving to the league. Forlan arguably the pick, Di Maria was shite too, Mkhi another.

    There’s no fool proof system, which is why cases like Alexis and Torres emerge, there’s loads of factors that inhibit players. But nearly every player interviewed when they come here talk about adapting to the football here, and some never grasp it no matter the ability.

  94. Un na naai

    It’s not only unfair but almost impossible to judge any new CB’s when they are playing with zero midfield in front of them.

    Marc
    And yet our goals conceded per match dropped sharply under Arteta with several injuries and only Mari as a signing who played 2 games.

  95. WengerEagle

    ‘You can’t do that in the final third. You can’t teach some players to see that pass or to take three guys out with a bit of skill. You either have that in your game or you don’t. That’s what we are missing.’

    This.

    If you look at how we played against City in the Cup SF, Liverpool at the Emirates, a red-hot free scoring Southampton side away from home we conceded just once over the three matches. Obviously a tiny sample size but it’s clear that it’s at least possible for us to be coached better as a defensive unit and to tighten up at the back through organisation and communication.

    Whereas going forward there’s not even a game example this season of us ripping a side to shreds at will and creating chance after chance. Offensively is much more down to individual quality than defensively.

  96. Marc

    Un

    Yeah by playing so deep it was almost a 9 – 1 formation. We also managed to lose against Brighton, the Spud’s and Villa – the first two from winning positions, drew with Leicester from a winning position and almost cocked it up against Watford.

    The whole balance of this team needs a shakeup.

  97. WengerEagle

    CC

    Yeah I’m not disagreeing, Toreirra’s struggled big time to adapt and was clearly a good little player over in Italy.

    Do disagree on Di Maria though who was far from shite even if not at his Real best, the whole gaf getting ransacked spooked him out of the side mentally and he never recovered from it and lost the head from then on really. Was brilliant for the first half of the season putting up a lot of assists.

    No easy answers re recruitment, all bring an inherent risk it’s just about assessing each one and deeming if they’re worth the risk and how likely are they to succeed.

    Players that have played abroad already are more favourable to guys that have only ever played in Serie A/La Liga/Bundesliga but they’re hard to find unless the profile of player is over 25.

  98. Un na naai

    Forlan arguably the pick, Di Maria was shite too, Mkhi another.

    Cc
    Veron, Crepso, Shevchenko, Mutu, Kezman, Baptista, Reyes (arguably) Soldado, Morientes, Negredo, Ozil, Robinho, Jesus Navas, Barthez, Nani, Anderson, Borini, and last but not least, Laudrup 😉 😉 😂

  99. Champagne Charlie

    “Not many goals in that team. Who besides Auba is putting up even close to 20?“

    More than one way to skin a cat:

    Salah – 19
    Mane – 18
    Firmino – 9

    Sterling – 20
    Aguero – 16
    Mahrez – 11

    Auba is 20 goals say, so that’s 26 goals from Pepe and Zaha/Willian to be comparable to the champions this season.

  100. Un na naai

    Whereas going forward there’s not even a game example this season of us ripping a side to shreds at will and creating chance after chance. Offensively is much more down to individual quality than defensively.

    Eagle
    Don’t forget the wolves game and second half vs Leicester.
    We did look good vs Leicester in the first half then solid in the second
    We looked very good going forward va chelsea and united but we had ozil on the field. As shit as he has got he still brought the forwards to life.
    Imagine what two, new, driven technical midfielders could bring to this team.

  101. WengerEagle

    Ah Crespo was alright, put up double figures for the Chavs in the title winning PL season where they didn’t have massive scorers and scored 20 in 49 PL apps which is respectable.

    Baptista gave us the glorious Anfield massacre even if he was largely shite and I thought that Reyes was great up until he was getting his legs smashed up on a weekly basis and he lost his nerve for the PL and wanted out.

  102. Un na naai

    UnYeah by playing so deep it was almost a 9 – 1 formation. We also managed to lose against Brighton, the Spud’s and Villa – the first two from winning positions, drew with Leicester from a winning position and almost cocked it up against Watford.The whole balance of this team needs a shakeup.

    Marc
    So what?? Did you want him to play expansive attacking football with Guendouzi and Torreira and leave the back door open? Won’t take long for the ball time come back our end with the players we have because they all lose the fucking ball when they get it.

  103. Un na naai

    Weagle

    Yeah but they all failed to adapt is the point. Big money spent on all 3 and all just didn’t take to the league. Which is fine. I enjoyed watching all 3 at certain points in their careers but the epl was not for them. That’s the point. Even the best players in the world can fail to adapt in this league.

  104. Champagne Charlie

    Un

    They’re prem number for all players, it’s the stats I think carry more weight, and the competition I value above all else.

    If we want to compete near the top end again they’re the figures the best are throwing up. Of course that’s without touching upon midfield contributions etc. But one convo at a time lol

  105. Marc

    Un

    No I expect a balance and if you think putting 11 men behind the ball is going to be successful in the majority of matches you’re wrong.

    There’s also another massive factor you’re not thinking of – once fans are back in the stadium do you think they’ll put up with constant negative football every match?

  106. WengerEagle

    CC

    That’s a little on the ambitious side, no? Considering Pep and Zaha combined for just 9 PL goals [2 pens at that for Pepe] combined this season.

    Willian has scored 9 in the PL but 4 have come from pens.

    Auba takes pens as well so where are all the open play goals coming from with that bunch?

    Also worth noting that defensively we’re a million miles off of Liverpool.

  107. Habesha Gooner

    If Mustafi is staying I don’t think we should be signing another CB. Saliba, Mari,Mustafi, Luiz and Chambers will all be in our books come the end of the transfer window. If we have money I am all for it but If not I would hope arteta is considering just focusing on midfield. We need a whole new trio in midfield. One of Guendouzi and Torriera is leaving. So provided we can sign Partey and Ceballos on loan we would still need an Attacking midfielder. Then If one striker leaves we also need a winger. I am cautious about signing another CB because I feel It will be another stop gap again. Sokratis and Luiz signed both in their 30s. Mari is a bit better at 26 but he is still an unknown quantity. If we spend it must be serious money on a starter. If not Mustafi hasn’t done too badly since arteta joined and he will leave next season on a free. And Having 6 CBs going in yo the season is a waste of resources.

    Next season when Luiz and Mustafi leave for free we can spend big there if we don’t have resources. I would rather make sure Our midfield is creative and better this transfer window.

  108. Un na naai

    Cc

    22 in the league then. Point is I agree. There’s not much of a margin to make up with the front 3 of pool and city
    Where the real difference lies is city’s creative midfield and pools defence.

  109. Un na naai

    Auba takes pens as well so where are all the open play goals coming from with that bunch?

    Weagle

    That’s why we need better creative midfielders
    Once Arteta has his style and system going then he can go out and buy his defenders just like klopp and Pep did, worked on their style first.

  110. Samir

    Wenger Eagle

    In the right system and having adjusted a little more, I’m hoping Pepe can get a lot more goals next season. But you’re right.

    If Luiz is a starter next season we’ll play 5 at the back which means we won’t be playing with an CAM.
    Good luck to Arteta working on the transfers.

  111. Un na naai

    There’s also another massive factor you’re not thinking of – once fans are back in the stadium do you think they’ll put up with constant negative football every match?

    Marc
    Well maybe now you see why arsenal fans are considered a problem in our stadium and people think we create a toxic atmosphere.
    And why do you think I’m advocating for signing game changers? I want us to be an attacking side. We won’t get better going forward next season if we waste all of our money on centre backs

  112. Champagne Charlie

    Weagle

    Ambitious? Perhaps, but Pepe was bought because he had end product in France so the hope would be that he can increase his levels to say 15 goals. Zaha or Willian would be tasked with pushing double digits and being more of a creative force/enabler.

    That’s to be level with the best in the league mate remember, if we’re within touching distance of that as a front three then patently it’s not then an area of concern. If both wingers got 10 and Auba 20 that’s 40 goals where 45-50 is best in class.

    I can’t sniff at that, and I think it’s very plausible. Doubly so with a midfield restructure.

  113. Un na naai

    MarcJuly 28, 2020 20:46:46
    UnNo I expect a balance and if you think putting 11 men behind the ball is going to be successful in the majority of matches you’re wrong.

    I want balance too Marc. And like Samir and Weagle point out, we won’t get that with Luiz in a back 3 and no attacking mids in our side