Bartering season is HUGE opp – don’t blow it on super-agents

by & filed under News Review.

Well good morning to yah! Feels maybe a little too early to dive into FA Cup stuff, we’re still dealing with the dusty remnants of the Premier League season.

I think universally, there is a deep worry that Raul and Edu are going to do exactly what they did in January and dial-up their best pals Kia and Canales and let them handle the summer.

What is happening right now in the press is a reflection of that… or, it’s posturing from said agents to try and get their clients a move or a new deal.

We were linked to Kurzawa in January. I’ve suspect Kia used his faux ‘I’m actually on the board at Arsenal’ business card to secure a new deal for his full-back. That’s part of the grey world he’s creating for himself, his not so subtle powerplay that he can use speculation around Arsenal because it’s clear it ‘could’ be true.

Yesterday, the morning started off by saying Willian was going to sign for Chelsea. By the evening Fabrizio and Steinberg had said he was leaning on Arsenal because we’d give him a 3-year deal. Smoke? I had been told this deal was as good as done before the covid outbreak. So I would say there is a high probability Raul is once again plotting to pull Arsenal back into the top 4 by dishing out a longterm deal to someone that will have no resale value after 3 years, and someone that’ll likely want a huge pay rise to join. These sorts of deals are bad for Arsenal football club and they keep us on the same track that has given us little resale value in our squad and drained the coffers of wages.

£180k a week, which is what I’d imagine he’ll command at a minimum, could be spent on 4 top youngsters from Europe, one of which might bring us in Matteo like revenue. Why oh why would you invest in Kia again, when the business sense is in rectifying the huge problem we’ve got with bloated wage bills and players who don’t want to leave. If we had an actual CEO, they’d scrutinise this deal, the value, and our historical track record of getting shafted everytime we make these signings (Cech, Gallas, Silvestre, Yossi), and veto it. Raul should be told to come back with something a little more creative and he should be told that it is looking very odd that he keeps going back to the Technical Directors agent for deals.

Here is why Willian would be bad business:

Mustafi didn’t want to leave last summer, now he won’t this window because he has an injury, but last season, it was rumoured he liked his deal.

David Luiz was brought in on a front weighted deal that worked out to about £200k a week.

Sokratis has leaked to the press he doesn’t want to leave he wants to stay and fight for his place in the first team. He knows there’s no chance of that, but he likes his huge contract that no one else will give him.

We rinse and repeat these horrible deals then blame Stan Kroenke for not spending enough money. Here’s the thing, Chelsea are a very clever club, if they don’t have a 3 year deal on the table, you have to ask yourself, why?

Expense > Deprectiating talent > Better value in youth

Don’t even get me started on a £27m loan deal for Coutinho who commands £250k a week. Sure, he’s an exciting player, but how are we in a position to chop everyone’s salary by 10%, but then take on a player with a hugely inflated deal who has tanked at Barcelona? He is literally called out as one of the worst deals in history in Spain and they’ve made quite a few shocking errors of late.

The only person that should be getting the big money this summer is Auba and even there it is a risk if you wanted to be truly forward-facing.

Thomas Partey is rumoured to be on the table still, we’re apparently trying to swap a player with them, some saying LT. Brilliant move. A player we can all agree on, for starters, he’s actually on the up. We need a 6. He’s athletic, he’s technical, he’s played in a Simeone press so he’ll be driven and outrageously tuned for discipline. That would be a monumental move for Arsenal.

… but it doesn’t matter if you then go out and bring in a whole crop of souring older players in his backdraft.

A proper club would address the issues and reset a transfer strategy that has us in 8th. We know the core problems at Arsenal are centred around creativity and athleticism. Our scouts and analysts should be compiling lists of players that fit the criteria. We have sharp scouts and elite analysts, they are good, they just need to be activated. You’ll have the obvious names at the higher end of our budget, but the data crunchers should be identifying different tiers of risk. Players that have the attributes, but need a bit of coaching. Players crushing it in lower leagues that might need longer to adapt. Players that have outrageous talent but are bench-warming under a new manager that doesn’t like that (PV04 > Milan).

We don’t need to spend this summer forking out for expensive loans. We should be exiting players we know we don’t want, drastically lowering our wage bill so we are a leaner business, and we should be starting the process of bringing in young talent of varying experience we can coach and kickstart our selling process. The culture reset needs to be harsh because the rot is so deep. The talent reset needs to look different to the last 5 summers.

Mikel Arteta has to be a strong voice in these conversations. Raul likely railroads Edu, because I can’t believe the Brazilian arrived here with the same taste in players as Canales, Kia and that other hanger-on. If he doesn’t speak up, he’ll become Emery MKII, bemoaning a Pepe signing because he didn’t have the gravitas to force a move for Zaha. We missed out on 3rd this year by 10 points. I am sure if Mikel had been in at the start of the season, we’d have been more competitive. Those were an easy 10 points to make up. However, it won’t be like that next season. We will need mid-70s to compete. That means we have to make up 20 points in the league.

Spurs will invest in an already good squad.

Chelsea have added 3 absolutely top class players already.

United don’t have a great manager, but they throw huge piles of cash at him, there’s simply no way Jadon doesn’t progress that side up the table

City are about to drop £300m

Liverpool might not spend wildly, but adding Alcantara makes them better, and they are the smartest team in world football. They won’t miss.

Leicester will build. Everton will build. Wolves will build.

Blowing our money on more loans, more average free transfers, and names that don’t come from the on-staff talent reccos will see us swim around in average. I don’t want to battle for 5th again. That is not Arsenal level.

We have options this summer.

  • Torreira – 30m
  • Guen – 40m
  • Lacazette – 40m
  • Hector – 30m
  • AMN – 30m
  • Auba – 50m (if his dad is to be believed)
  • Holding 15m
  • Sokratis 5m
  • Kola 10m
  • Xhaka 30m
  • Reiss 20m

I’m not saying all those players should go, or that the values are bang on, but I am saying they are bartering chips in a market that is looking for security (players will leave to get a longer deal, because who know what happens with covid in round two). Someone raised the point that a lot of the players won’t want to leave the UK. We have more money and it’s easier to stay put in a world of pandemic. So there could be a lot of swapping locally. I think if the Arthur deal showed anything, clubs are willing to put cash on the books to help their balance sheets, so we know a big name like Lacazette is going to be appealing.

However you cut it, there are ways to bring in players… the swap mechanic is going to make this a once in a lifetime chance to get players off the book, and take players from financially stressed clubs, of which there are a lot.

So let’s not blow it with another year of Barca-lite bollocks that we know won’t move us forward.

Interestingly, stories are popping out about Arteta bringing in new coaches this summer. I mentioned this a few weeks ago, but I think there will be a big shake-up in Arsenal’s backroom. I think you’ll see a lot of staff leave as the club continues to trim and reshape for a much, much leaner year where we’ll likely be 10% down on stadium revenue.

That’s why it is inconceivable that on the one hand we can ask players and staff to take a hit financially, but on the other, gift out huge fees to agents that offer us absolutely fuck all value.

Right, see you in the comments.

386 Responses to “Bartering season is HUGE opp – don’t blow it on super-agents”

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  1. Pierre

    Superb documentary on Barca on sky atm.

    “Get the ball
    Pass the ball”

    Sounds so simple.

    That’s why we need skilful , technical players in midfield .

    Let the Burnley’s and Watford’s of this world have the ” beast dms”.

  2. WengerEagle

    If you look at each side’s players that have put up at least 10 goals in all comps this season:

    Liverpool:

    Salah- 23
    Mane- 22
    Firmino- 12

    Man City:

    Sterling- 30
    Aguero- 23
    Jesus- 22
    De Bruyne-15
    Mahrez- 13

    Man United:

    Martial- 22
    Rashford- 22
    Greenwood- 17
    Bruno Fernandes- 10 [joined in Jan]

    Chelsea:

    Abraham- 17
    Willian- 11
    Giroud- 10
    Pulisic- 10

    Now they’ll lose Willian and likely Abraham or Giroud but they’ve added Werner [34 goals] and Ziyech [10 goals] as well as potentially Havertz now [17].

    Spurs:

    Kane- 24
    Son- 18

    Arsenal:

    Aubameyang- 27
    Lacazette- 12
    Martinelli- 10 [Love the kid but half of these were in the Mickey Mouse Cup]

    If we sell Lacazette, we absolutely need to bring in somebody that can put up 15-20 goals in all comps and 10-15 in the PL. Pepe was nowhere near that this season so we’re banking on a dramatic improvement on that front from him if we’re not bringing in that kind of player.

  3. Pierre

    Un
    “There’s not much of a margin to make up with the front 3 of pool and city.”

    Exactly what I said a few months back when I showed stats that compared our front 3 to liverpool’s.

  4. WengerEagle

    ‘I can’t sniff at that, and I think it’s very plausible. Doubly so with a midfield restructure.’

    I would love to be proven wrong but I can’t see the Pepe that scored 3 from open play this season hitting double figures next year barring a massive improvement.

    And Zaha at best is a 7-10 PL scorer and those extra 5 or so goals make a big difference when it comes to potential match winners.

    You have to factor in too that City get goals from their CM in De Bruyne, Bernardo Silva and Foden as well as Chelsea with Mount and now Ziyech added.

    United have Bruno and Pogba to add to their attack with goals.

    Liverpool aren’t even comparable they are so far ahead, they’re unusually spread out for team goals for a champion.

    Nobody in our CM can even put up 5 goals, Ramsey was literally the only one and he’s gone.

  5. Champagne Charlie

    Weagle

    I get that, but this is also factoring in a change in midfield which can’t be underestimated. We were 16th for chances created this season, I think it’s a bit anomalous to start using it as a definitive baseline.

    But I fully appreciate the scope for improvement we have. It’s why I value Coutinho too, his goal contributions are significant from a midfielder plus the obvious creative appeal.

    We look anything like the following we’ll be much better placed to up the goal count:

    Zaha/Willian – Auba – Pepe
    ———Coutinho—Ceballos
    ————–Partey/Xhaka

  6. Paulinho

    If we get better midfielders and have a stranglehold over the game higher up the pitch, we can release Pepe in advanced areas and that’s when he only needs to take out one player to get a shot off.

    Because of our disconnect between midfield and attack he’s picking the ball up too deep and his brain short-circuits by the time he gets to the box. It’s becoming clear Pepe has two or three second window to do something before he gets afflicted by some form of footballing narcolepsy.

  7. WengerEagle

    CC

    I’d be interested in Coutinho. Humorous seeing people labeling him as a flop at Barcelona when basically every star player that’s gone there since Suarez has ‘flopped’ due to not fitting in with Messi and friends. He was actually very good in the first spell too before he started dropping off a bit.

    He was good at Bayern too but again, did not fit the system particularly well. If he’s pandered to he’s a fantastic little player that brings goals, assists and plenty of invention and guile.

    Good opportunity to bring him back to the PL now his stock has never been lower.

  8. Un na naai

    Pepe 8 goals/ 9 assist in first season with 28 Starts

    Robert pires
    4 goals/7 assists in 29 starts in first season
    Robert pires second season
    9 goals/6 assists

    Freddie
    1 goal/0 assists in first season in 22
    8goals/2 assists in seconds
    9 goals/3assists in third

    I think Pepe can and will do better
    Even arsenal legends take their time

  9. Champagne Charlie

    Weagle

    Baffles me a bit, I think some fans don’t quite appreciate the level Barca are on compared to us currently too, nvm the clear teething pains nearly every major talent has found in a Messi team.

    Saw this on Twitter:

    “First season in Spain:
    Joao Felix: 27 Games, 6 Goals, 1 Assist
    Luka Jovic: 17 Games, 2 Goals, 1 Assist
    Eden Hazard: 16 Games, 1 Goal, 3 Assists

    Philippe Coutinho: 18 Games, 8 Goals, 5 Assists.”

    Like, it isn’t just about base numbers that’s obviously not a valid argument only. But cmon now, a flop? Are they all shite players then? Wide reach for that imo. He’ll need humbling financially if he wants to come here, no issues there at all, but 8th place Arsenal with EL on a knife edge scoffing at Coutinho is a bit of a double take moment to me.

  10. Samir

    Coutinho has just turned 28. Would take him on loan but wouldn’t want to buy him, as good as he is. We need to build a team for the future or we’ll be stuck in situations with players like:
    Ozil, Luiz, Cedric, Sokratis, Mhiki in the future.

    The scouts should be earning their money and finding us the next Coutinho.

  11. Pierre

    “I would love to be proven wrong but I can’t see the Pepe that scored 3 from open play this season hitting double figures next year barring a massive improvement.”

    Well, he has actually scored 8 goals this season or don’t we include dead ball goals anymore.

  12. WengerEagle

    Pierre

    They do indeed count but what good is it having multiple penalty specialists in the side when we’re crying out for open play goal contributions. There’s much more value to a player putting up double figure goals without taking a pen than one that scores half of his tally of double figures from the spot.

  13. Thorough

    I think we’re just a pathetically run club. When we were in Champions league we didn’t act like a UCL team, always looking for unknowns and bargain basement buys.
    There was a season we were even the only team in top European leagues who didn’t buy an outfield player.

    Now, we are in the shitters, need money, FFP already shown to be useless, yet we can’t go bust and do the needful.

    This I what I would do if I were the DOF or whatever name they give him.
    1. Sign Auba to a new deal only if Arteta want to play him as a striker.
    2. Buy a feisty dribling winger.
    3. Sign Partey for the quoted sum. Stop looking for alternatives to him. We need to start buying the obvious players, not trying to be a smart Alec.
    4. Buy Malghaes and partner him with Saliba.
    5.Retain Ceballoa
    6. Tell Arteta to play people in their normal positions and see where we are in 3 months.

  14. WengerEagle

    CC

    Coutinho would add a lot to the side, no doubt. And defensively he’s no more of a liability than the other guys getting minutes now. He’s unfortunate that Bayern caught fire when he was out of the side and he never got an opportunity to break back in due to the outstanding form of Kimmich, Thiago and Goretzka in CM.

    Hang on a minute, if 28 is getting on what are we doing with a 31 year old main CF in Auba? All well and good building for the future but you need to factor the present in your decisions too because things like CL finishes massively influence a player’s decision to join your side.

  15. Un na naai

    Champagne CharlieJuly 28, 2020 21:42:57
    UnWould you take 29 year old Real Madrid flop Eden Hazard? 😂

    Charlie
    No. Not for £30m for just one season. We need to snap out of that way of thinking.

  16. Pierre

    WE
    “There’s much more value to a player putting up double figure goals without taking a pen than one that scores half of his tally of double figures from the spot.”

    2 from pens this season .

  17. Champagne Charlie

    Un

    Idk where these figures are plucked from, but let’s not ignore the gravity of next season. We have youth across the side and we’re desperately short of CM quality for right now.

    You want us to land the Hungarian lad playing in Austria instead? Good for a few years down the line, but what are we achieving next season with him in the hole and Saka wide?

    Balance is key, and our most influential player is 31, think the ageism bollocks needs a pause.

  18. Champagne Charlie

    Our midfield:

    Ozil 31
    Xhaka 27
    Ceballos 23
    Torreira 23
    Willock 20
    Guendouzi 21
    ESR 20
    Saka 18

    Forwards:
    Auba 31
    Laca 29
    Pepe 25
    Martinelli 19
    Eddie 21
    Nelson 20

    Cannot agree that more youth is required, we need a couple of established players to compliment that bunch.

  19. Valentin

    Taking only the premiership, Pepe has 31 appearances, 5 goals and 6 assists for Arsenal.
    Out of those he scored 2 penalties, 1 free-kick. So only 2 goals from open play. That is poor.
    Take away the assists from corners and set pieces and that is extremely poor. Taking into account that he played in a poor team and he had to adapt to a new league, we should see some improvement next season.

    However even in his breaking season at Lille, the majority of his goals were penalty and free-kick. He has never been a top flight 10 open play goals a season type player. There is no objective reason to believe that he will suddenly become a goal scoring or goal creating machine.

    Reasonably, we should not hope more than 12 goals in the league including 3 penalties and 2 free-kicks.

  20. The backpass

    Valentin

    I know you have a Pepe hate boner but he scored against Weatham, Brighton and Man.u that is 3 and had only 2 setpiece assists.

    3 goals and four assists from open play.. Its low, but certainly can be improved on.

  21. Marko

    Are we downplaying someone’s contribution because they score from pens or deadball situations? Arsenal fans continue to blow my mind. Fuck me we haven’t had someone capable of scoring from freekicks in years and someone’s going to downplay it’s importance? Nah mate nah

  22. Ishola70

    Pepe needs to up it.

    He has had this annoying habit of flinging himself to the ground at the merest touch from an opponent.

    Did it twice again against Watford. At least fling yourself to the ground in dangerous areas just outside the box or in the opponents penalty area. He’s been throwing himself to the ground quite a long way out from the opponents penalty box.

  23. Thorough

    Lukes
    There’s an option for English at the lower part of the screen.

    Always a delight listening to Sven. We should have tried to marry whatever he was bringing to what Raul wanted. Sadly it seemed they’re 2 egoistic characters and the boss always win. He’s always very clear about what he wants.

  24. China1

    For a first season and in light of all the crap he’s faced, multiple managers, regularly benched, new league, etc etc etc, I’d give Pepe a B- for his first year

    He’s contributed and the numbers aren’t bad, but plenty of room for improvement as well. I hope he kicks on next season but expectations should be higher

  25. China1

    The top scorer in most teams also takes most penalties

    Henry did. Auba does. Pepe only took a couple and scored them. Fair play I say

  26. Habesha Gooner

    coutinho is a really good player but You don’t fix your problem areas by loaning players that are on huge wages. We need to get our own coutinho like liverpool did when they signed him from inter.

    Dominik szoboszlai is playing wonderfully in the Austrian league. That’s where the likes of Mane, Keita, Haaland and Minamino came out of. There is also Emi Buendia who is a bit of a hot head but We need players like hime who can also do the dirty work. Dribbling and creating chances and also tackling makes him an attractive proposition.

    If we want to spend money there is Odegaard, Dony Van debeek, Auoar, Fekir available. So I don’t think the Loan fee that Bayern payed for his services is justified. 10 mil in loan fee and 200k+ a week wages is not value for coutinho. And he is 28 so we aren’t building a team around him.

  27. Un na naai

    Champagne CharlieJuly 28, 2020 22:06:35
    Un Idk where these figures are plucked from, but let’s not ignore the gravity of next season. We have youth across the side and we’re desperately short of CM quality for right now. You want us to land the Hungarian lad playing in Austria instead? Good for a few years down the line, but what are we achieving next season with him in the hole and Saka wide? Balance is key, and our most influential player is 31, think the ageism bollocks needs a pause.

    Charlie
    Hold your horses there fella. Me thinking Coutinho is over priced for one season or three is a world away from me want us to sign only signing inexperienced players

  28. Pierre

    Ishola
    “He has had this annoying habit of flinging himself to the ground at the merest touch from an opponent.”

    I know I shouldn’t be , but I am sometimes flabbergasted at the lack of football understanding shown by some posters on here.

    I could go into detail why and how Pepe is targetted by the opposition with no protection from referees, as they are as ignorant as you when it comes to understanding his dribbling skills.

    How he has not had at least 3 penalties this season is criminal ,and that is what you as an Arsenal supporter should be more concerned about rather than this fictitious notion that he is flinging himself to the floor.

  29. Terraloon

    If Pepe had shipped up elsewhere at of cost north of £70+ million and delivered the same sort of stats in his first season we would all be having a giggle.

    I know everyone wants him to deliver but based on what we have seen in him he certainly isn’t a player that is going to strike the fear of god into defenders.

    Ok he has decent speed but is far too predictable and top defenders just show him where they want him to go and instantly he becomes in effective.

    He takes a decent free kick and scored a couple from penalties but there is no doubt the value for money achieved fro his performances this season has been poor.

    The question then comes will he get better?

    Hope is one thing but on what evidence can we suggest he is going to live up to his fee.

  30. Un na naai

    If we sign Szoboszlai we could also sign partey and depay/Lemar and have Aubameyang in front of him and Pepe to the right
    He’d be surrounded by older/experienced players

  31. Un na naai

    We need to spending on assets. Lads who will grow in the long term and get better and be beneficial for arsenal for years and then have high resale value

    Coutinho- if he doesn’t put us back in the top 4 would be a waste of money

  32. Pierre

    I’ll be amazed if Pepe is not out with a serious leg injury next season.

    It’s just a matter of time.

  33. Bojangles

    A couple of names being banded around here today that make me nervous. William. Although I’m a fan I don’t think we should be looking at him. If we are serious about a rebuild, we should be looking at younger players
    Zaha. Not for me at all. This season he was totally shit. Now that the ref”s have woken up to h he doesn’t even earn penalties for palace, imagine his chances of winning one with us. only way I’d go along with Zaha incoming is with a swap, or 20 mil deal.

  34. Un na naai

    Ishola

    I’d just like to repost this

    Pepe 8 goals/ 9 assist in first season with 28 Starts

    Robert pires
    4 goals/7 assists in 29 starts in first season
    Robert pires second season
    9 goals/6 assists

    Freddie Ljungberg
    1 goal/0 assists in first season in 22
    8goals/2 assists in second season
    9 goals/3assists in third

    I think Pepe can and will do better
    Even arsenal legends take their time

  35. Un na naai

    Ok he has decent speed but is far too predictable and top defenders just show him where they want him to go and instantly he becomes in effective.

    Terra
    You could do with taking a look at bobby and Freddie’s first two seasons in English football. And they were part of a team that was finishing in the top 2 with bergkamp Adams Vieira anelka henry and Kanu playing.

    Puts things in context a little

  36. Habesha Gooner

    I disagree on Pepe being predictable. He is lightning quick in his dribbling skills. But we have given him to much to do. He is always starting from our own half to create something. He ends up trying to take on two three players every time. Get him in an advanced position one on one and I would trust him to skin a player.

  37. Valentin

    Pedro,

    Remember when I wrote that Lille had been accused by previous player of forcing their to switch agents and that some were clearly not working for the player. Check the France Football interview of Osimhen former agent.

    https://www.francefootball.fr/news/Jean-gerard-benoit-czajka-agent-de-victor-osimhen-on-a-mis-des-betises-dans-sa-tete/1156204

    Basically they did all the work for the transfer to Napoli then at the 11th hour somebody else comes and swoop in. He takes the job as agent and more importantly all the commissions.
    Strangely enough Luis Campos and Gerard Lopez are now asking the former agent who did all the work to cooperate with the new agent otherwise he will lose everything.
    The former agent even accuses them of delaying the signature to pretend that the new agent is working, because if he signs the same contract than before, it then become untenable to defend in a court of law the position that the new agent has been working.

  38. Pierre

    Terraloon
    “Hope is one thing but on what evidence can we suggest he is going to live up to his fee”

    And that is Le grove in a nut shell…

    Too many are fixated on fees and wages.
    It should make no difference to football fans how much a player costs or is paid.

    A fans only concern should be, are they doing it on the football pitch?, are they benefiting the team? are they influencing games?

    What we have is something that is only peculiar to Arsenal fans ( especially Le Grove) in that they judge a player by his wages and transfer fee .

    I’m sure Chelsea, City and United fans don’t waste their time counting the pennies day after day and judge a player by how much he earns or costs.

    Pepe costing 72 million doesn’t worry me one iota..
    What worries me is that we haven’t found a way to utilise his strengths.
    If ultimately he isn’t good enough , then we sell him and take a hit on him , that’s how it works at City , Chelsea , Liverpool and United and we are no different.

  39. Pierre

    Habesha
    “I disagree on Pepe being predictable. He is lightning quick in his dribbling skills. But we have given him to much to do. He is always starting from our own half to create something. He ends up trying to take on two three players every time. Get him in an advanced position one on one and I would trust him to skin a player.”

    Exactly

  40. Valentin

    Habesha,

    The issue is not whether he can dribble past defenders, because he can.
    But can he dribble and then make a contribution: a key pass, an assist or a goal.

    Arjen Robben is predictable, but still make an extraordinary contribution to Bayern attack force.

    Maybe instead of trying to dribble 3 players, he should only dribble 1 or 2 and then make the forward pass instead of regularly lose possession on the third player.

    Effectiveness is what is important and right now he is not effective. Part is due to the team and it was and still is setup. However a big part is also due to his style of play and him not releasing quickly enough the ball.

  41. Pierre

    Habesha
    We should use Pepe the way liverpool use Salah.

    Salah plays in the opposition half and rarely picks the ball up in his own half.

    Give him the ball in the final third and he will do damage to the opposition.

    Give him the ball out wide, on the half way line with 2 players on him and the opposition will do damage to him.

  42. Habesha Gooner

    Valentin
    His end product may not be polished but I still think it isn’t as bad as you are making out to be.
    Pierre
    I think a Flat 433 might help him a lot. get him high up the pitch and a bit less defensive responsibilities. He has ability. Those Brighton and westham away goals tell me if he was playing a bit higher in a settled team, He would be a genuine threat to fear.

  43. Ashwin Gunner

    Pedro

    Werent you the one who was questioning Wenger when he didn;t want to deal with Super Agents back in the day. I know these are different times. But am sure your stance should had been the same. Atleast on paper.

    The list of players which you have showed are all Arsenal have (atleast the decent ones who get to play every week). Are we going to recruit a whole new team now ?

  44. Ashwin Gunner

    People who think Pepe is not good are wrong. He is a threat down the flanks. His end product has to be refined but he is a constant threat. We have tolerated Walcott for 10 years in that position. This kid is much better upgrade than him. He can Dribble, has pace and a very good left foot.

  45. Un na naai

    Maybe instead of trying to dribble 3 players, he should only dribble 1 or 2 and then make the forward pass instead of regularly lose possession on the third player.

    Val
    Every time he gets the hall there are 2-3 players up his arse.
    Why?
    Lacazette plays too far from goal for defence to follow and Aubameyang is utterly useless outside the box. There is now one else to occupy that sweet spot between opposing midfield and defence except Pepe so they can focus on nullifying him

    If you start saka at 10, cmf or the left it instantly draws their attention off Pepe slightly as now they have another threat

    If you start AMN and instruct him to run off Pepe as soon as the ball comes to our right then Pepe instantly has more room to do his thing because AMN pulls a marker away.

    At the minute Arteta wants his left sided fullback to press up with the right one tucked further back to compensate for Aubameyang’s lack of ability on the ball. We are effectively a man down on that side in possession but because of this it nullifies pepe’s strengths

    We should be doing the opposite
    In essence Aubameyang is our Freddie and Pepe is our pires

    Back in the days wenger creates overloads to give pires and Henry the room to create on the left with Freddie running in from the right.
    That’s what we should be doing with Pepe and Aubameyang only from the other wing

  46. Terraloon

    Comparing Pepe to two players who first featured at Arsenal 20+ years ago is easy to do but is it relevant when looking at players and indeed how football is played in the here and now? Back then there weren’t six or more clubs of quality it was two maybe three at most

    For every player that comes good in the PL you can trump their number ten fold by players that have bombed.

    As for ignoring the price that’s fair comment but as someone pointed out other clubs won’t for one second care because if a player doesn’t deliver they are shipped out and in one that’s the problem at Arsenal because the club can’t afford to write off after one or maybe even two years they will keep going and as we are witnessing other clubs are decisive when assessing a player , they evolve , get stronger and Arsenal slowly but surely are slipping back in the pecking order.

    I personally haven’t yet seen anything in Pepes performances to suggest that he should be a regular starter or that he is ever going to be good enough to deliver in English Football the same sort of numbers that he delivered at Lille over one arguably two seasons.

    There wasn’t a long queue of clubs that looked at him and were prepared to push the boat out. That is for a reason . Doubt.

    As I say he has a fair turn of speed but based on what we have seen to date he is a long way from being in Robbens class for me he is much akin to De Maria.

    Will we be having the same conversation in 12 months but then pulling some other names out the hat that didn’t perform during their first two seasons but did better in their third ?

  47. Un na naai

    Ashwin

    Pedro is basically calling for wenger style management again but with smarter tactics analysis and transfer market dealings.
    Full 180 on the great man. He won’t admit it. But that’s where he’s at.

  48. andy1886

    “It should make no difference to football fans how much a player costs or is paid.”

    Tell that to Leeds supporters. There’s a reason why ‘doing a Leeds’ became a warning back in the day.

    Fans should rightly hold clubs to account over how well they spend on players. After all, their income derives from fans either directly or indirectly doesn’t it?

    And for a club that used to celebrate financial results just as much as results on the pitch, in particular successes in player trading, to do a 180 on the subject would be a bit hypocritical wouldn’t it?

  49. Un na naai

    TerraloonJuly 29, 2020 08:17:34
    Comparing Pepe to two players who first featured at Arsenal 20+ years ago is easy to do but is it relevant when looking at players and indeed how football is played in the here and now? Back then there weren’t six or more clubs of quality it was two maybe three at mostFor

    Terra
    How is it irrelevant? Wide forwards still penetrate and create in similar ways, just as big target men like Giroud still perform a similar role to those of the 70s 80s and 90s

    Again if you look at pepe’s numbers in his first season in a league you claim is harder he’s outperforming pires and Freddie in their first two season in premier league football.
    Worth considering they played for a far superior side too.

  50. Un na naai

    andy1886July 29, 2020 08:20:21
    “It should make no difference to football fans how much a player costs or is paid.”Tell that to Leeds supporters. There’s a reason why ‘doing a Leeds’ became a warning back in the day.

    Andy
    In relation to how a player performs not how much debt the suits put the club into

  51. Un na naai

    There wasn’t a long queue of clubs that looked at him and were prepared to push the boat out. That is for a reason . Doubt.

    Terra
    There we not many sniffing around pires or Freddie either. Nor Henry or bergkamp. Or RvP or Rosicky or Sanchez.
    There weren’t that many sniffin around Kante or Mahrez when Leicester went in for them or Kompany for city or Lampard for Leicester

    Other big clubs having their eye on someone else or missing a gem isn’t reflective of the talent any particular player has or lack thereof. History is littered with such examples

  52. Tom

    “Arjen Robben is predictable, but still make an extraordinary contribution to Bayern attack force.“

    Val
    You just compared one of the most potent attacking clubs in Europe to a struggling , mid table club searching for identity.

  53. CG

    UN

    “””””””.Pedro is basically calling for wenger style management again but with smarter tactics analysis and transfer market dealings.
    Full 180 on the great man. He won’t admit it. But that’s where he’s at” “””””””‘.

    A refined form of Wengerism with PedRo ‘s beloved data.

    Extraordinary how mediocre ,how unamabitious , how immoral, how useless and how quickly we have sunk since the great man left.

    Only 2 seasons ago.

    ps. Pepe- a sackable offence to pay £72 million for him, but he is here now.

    If our Wenger was in charge.
    PEPE would be flourishing. No doubt about it.
    Unarguable fact.

  54. andy1886

    The point is if a fan thinks money is being spent badly on the wrong players, or in the wrong positions, why shouldn’t they say so? They could be wrong, but that doesn’t mean that they should blindly go along with whatever the club decides to do on recruitment.

    Thing is, if you spend a lot of money on one player you can’t spend it elsewhere on other areas where the team may be weak. So I’m afraid that how much a player costs, and how well a club utilises it’s resources, is always going to be relevant. I don’t think anyone is blaming the player, it’s the club and the player trading team that are being criticised.

  55. Un na naai

    If our Wenger was in charge.
    PEPE would be flourishing. No doubt about it.
    Unarguable fact.

    Cg
    We wouldn’t have an issue creating chances, of that I’m certain.

  56. andy1886

    “Freddie wasn’t a creator
    He was a finisher and a work horse. ”

    Absolutely. A Ray Parlour with more goals if you will.

    Over the last several decades AFC have been successful when they had one more traditional wide player/winger with goals and on the other side a more robust wide midfielder who could tuck in and aid the central MF guys when required.

    That’s not Pepe’s game so to free him up we would need that extra physicality on the other side of the pitch (obviously not Auba) if we wanted to replicate the Pires/Henry/Ljungberg dynamic.

  57. andy1886

    @CG – Another unarguable fact is that if your Wenger was still in charge we would have conceded another dozen or more goals this season.

  58. Victorious

    Tbf Pepe would certainly have been a better player under big Weng,no doubt, he’s the sort of player the man likes working with,he would have provided him a platform and given him the freedom the lad needs to totally beast defenders

  59. Valentin

    Pedro,

    Caen is the latest French club being bought by a US Investment fund. So we now have nearly half the club in Ligue 1 owned by investment fund or billionaire.
    Not all of them expect to reach the Champion’s League to make money. They relies on the selling and buying of players for income. The football has taken second place.

    PSG – billionaire/country – marketing strategy for Qatar
    Monaco – billionaire – personal interest also visa benefit in case of Russian purge
    Rennes – billionaire – personal interest
    Marseilles – billionaire – resale?
    Nice – billionnaire – ?
    Toulouse – Hedge Fund – agent
    Lille – Hedge Fund – agent
    Caen – Hedge Fund – agent
    Bordeaux – Hedge Fund – agent/resale
    Lorient – Hedge Fund – agent
    Lens – Hedge Fund – agent
    The behind the scene of Lens has been murky to say the least. Years ago Gervais Martel the former Lens strong man did not have the cash, so made deal with less than reputable individuals or some unreliable ones. He brought in the at the time owner of Athletico Hafiz Mammadov. He owned 99.99% of the club but has only 60% of the voting right and nearly no influence on the sport decision. Out of spite for being left out of key decision, Mammadov refused to settle any debt the club had, forcing a relegation. Despite bringing him into the club, Martel resorted to borrow money to buy Mammadov out, but in the end he himself went bust and a bank was left owning the club. Strangely enough that bank sold to the same people who also bought Athletico from Mammadov. So both Mammadov and Martel spend a fortune on clubs which got bought by the same people…

  60. Valentin

    Tom,

    You confuse causality and correlation.
    The reason why Bayern are so potent in attack is because of their players.
    Robben in any team bring goals and assists. You put Robben in Arsenal and I am sure that you would get more than 3 league goals from open play in a season. Robben is greedy, selfish, forceful but he is also very efficient and quick on thought on the pitch.
    I don’t see that forcefulness, not quickness of thought in Pepe. I see a meek player who tries hard, but whose feet work faster than his mind.

  61. Valentin

    Un na naai,

    You are underestimating the interest for Pores at the time of his transfer to Arsenal.

    Taken from Wikipedia:
    “Pires was signed by Arsenal for £6 million in 2000, after stiff competition from Real Madrid and Juventus”

    Also did he not confirmed in an interview or biography that Real Madrid really went after him, but that he had already promised to Wenger to sign.

  62. Terraloon

    UN

    20 years ago 442 was the option of choice for the vast majority of English clubs.

    The majority now favour a far more fluid formation. The day of the wide player pushed forward just waiting for a pass are long gone.

    None of the players you mention cost a fortune they were calculated gambles.

    Mahrez cost £750k , Kante £5.6 million. Berkamp cost £7.5 million in the same season that Middlesbrough paid £8.8 million for Ravenelli and £6 million for Merson , Everton paid around £7.2 million for Barnby and Newcastle £18.2 million for Shearer. In other words not top of the market but somewhere in the middle price wise
    Pepe fee wasn’t an affordable gamble. In 2019 in English Football only Maguire cost more than Pepe.Maguire certainly wasn’t worth the money but as I said earlier if he didn’t work out he simply would be moved on . To Man U his relative cost wasn’t even close to what Arsenal paid for Pepe.
    It’s easy to roll out the names of players where the gamble has paid off but for every Kante there is a Slamini. For every Mahrez there is an André Kramaric.

    But the point here is that Pepes fee wasn’t an affordable gamble whose cost can easily be written off Pepe cost an arm and a leg and at his cost has to perform.

  63. Pierre

    Andy
    “@CG – Another unarguable fact is that if your Wenger was still in charge we would have conceded another dozen or more goals this season.”

    Oh dear Andy , you’ve allowed yourself to believe the media bullshit about Wenger’s defensive record.

    During his 20 years in charge , 18 of those years Arsenal conceded less than this season in the premier league.

    So I would think it is pretty fair to say that this season we would also have conceded less under Wenger and not “a dozen or more”.

  64. Valentin

    Un na naai,

    The funny thing about Lambert Wilson who played the Frenchman in the Matrix is that he has to fabricate his French accent as he perfectly bilingual.

    He is French, but his grand mother is Irish. His dad George Wilson took the surname of his mother, because he was an illegitimate son.

    In France when he started, he used to play the English guy in French movies, because despite being born in France he used to have that strange, slightly foreign accent. He has since lost it, but the rhythm of his speak can still be slightly incorrect to a French native speaker.

  65. Un na naai

    UN20 years ago 442 was the option of choice for the vast majority of English clubs.

    Terra
    I’d argue that we were the first to play 4231 or 433
    With Bergkamp dropping into midfield or a 10 and Henry/pires alternating between false 9 and inverted winger
    Freddie as wide, forward and auxiliary midfielder
    Lauren and Cole as wing back/full backs

    Not much different to current systems and what Arteta is trying to do.

  66. Un na naai

    Val

    Charismatic guy though. Thought he was the highlight of the sequel. Cause and causality, I drink wine, I need to take a peese

    Was that a Parisian accent he was doing then? I’m not an expert but I’ve noticed that Parisian accents stand out from the rest when speaking English as do Quebec/French Canadian accents.
    The rest all sounds similar

  67. Un na naai

    Terra
    Back then £6m for Barmby was around £35-£50m by today’s standard
    £15m for Shearer was the £140m spent on Coutinho and the like. It smashed the world record.

    Pepe is like a bergkamp signing for us. We need it to work. Both had middling first seasons.
    I’d like to point out that it shouldn’t matter what we spent when comparing pires, Freddie and Pepe but wether or not pepe can emulate their success in the coming seasons.
    I’d argue that his stats show he very well could. He’s out scored and out assisted both of their first two seasons and they were part of a team that finished in top 2
    The argument is on budget but potential quality

  68. Pierre

    Maybe our coaching staff need to take a look at the barca documentary ” take the ball, pass the ball” ..

    Let the ball do the work.

    It started with cruyff who changed the way the game was played and Pep took it another step further with the pressing and splitting the centre backs to play out from the keeper.

    Under Emery it was ” take the ball and lose the ball ” and Arteta is fighting to return to the Arsenal/Arsene way of playing the game.

    Because of Wenger , Arsenal are known world wide for the quality of their football and the enjoyment they bring to the game, though you wouldnt believe it when you read the miserable bastards on Le Grove.

    Arteta understands how important it is that Arsenal return to our values of how the game should be played , though it’s fair to say that he’s struggling with that side of it.

    To me, Arteta looks like a man who wants to succeed and win trophies and the FA cup will be a great place to start..

  69. Bojangles

    “They could be wrong, but that doesn’t mean that they should blindly go along with whatever the club decides to do on recruitment.”

    Perhaps hold a referendum among Arsenal ST holders before any player is signed?

  70. Emiratesstroller

    It is beginning to look like Arsenal have dug a deep hole in their handling of
    Guendouzi. His misconduct and our decision not to play him make him look
    like a pariah.

    The question is will any major club want to touch such a problematic player and how much will the current situation devalued his potential transfer fee if there are any takers?

    Arsenal in contrast to many of our competitors seem incapable of selling any
    players on our books. The best we seem to manage is loans where we land up
    meeting part of wage bill.

    The club needs some proper leadership and good decision making.

  71. Bishwajit Chatterjee

    The rates given are ridiculous in this current market. For those rates I would sell everyone except Auba!! How about you trying to sell them at those rates !! I am sure Arsenal board will make you a life member.

  72. Dissenter

    Emirates
    ‘It’s beginning to look like..l’

    I believe you meant to write that… it was crystal clear from the beginning that Arsenal didn’t handle Guendouzi right.