How LFC eclipsed Arsenal with less money + what we can learn (Long Read)

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Yesterday, we focused on how Arsenal have managed to find themselves in another situation where they’ve embarked on a blurry journey to find the next level. Today, we’re going to move away from the doom and try and paint a picture of what things could look like for the club if they make good decisions over the next 5 years.

Liverpool Football Club is an unbearable institution, of that there is no doubt. However, what they have achieved in 5 years is beyond spectacular. It is a minor miracle. A benchmark for clubs that don’t have the luxury of billions of dollars in sugar daddy cash.

We spent years on here extolling the virtues of using smarts to beat the system while so many people just aped the old Arsenal line of ‘it’s impossible to win with financial doping.’ It has always been weak to believe there is only one way to achieve success and this story aims to uncover how better decision making that starts now could set us on a future path to glory.

Firstly, let’s start in 2015. Arsenal had just lifted their second trophy of the decade, they finished 3rd in the League comfortably on 75 points, things were looking up. We had the makings of a decent squad. It was so good, the only signings we made that summer were Mo Elneney and Petr Cech (lol). People inside the club genuinely thought that FA Cup win was about to spark something at Arsenal.

Liverpool had just crashed to 6th after nearly winning the league the season before but for a slip. Brendan Rodgers squad hadn’t moved forward, and they doubled down on the problems that summer by spending £50m on Benteke, £20m on Clyne, with the only saving grace being Firmino for £45m. They also lost Raheem Sterling to City.

The following season saw Liverpool crash to 10th in the table by October, Rodgers was sacked and they went big with the replacement. They brought in Jurgen Klopp, the charismatic German who’d ended his Dortmund tenure in flames the season prior. This was a spectacular decision.

We finished 2nd in the league with Claudio Ranieri’s Leicester besting us by 10 points. Let’s get this absolutely straight, that season was an absolute disaster for all the teams around us. Every club in the big 6 had cycled through a new manager within a year. Our celebrated stability under Wenger still couldn’t deliver a major trophy

Bold exec leadership would have looked at the context of that years 2nd place honestly. They’d have seen that it was in fact a dismal failure, not a success. The only joy was beating Spurs to 2nd on the last game of the season. It would have been apparent to anyone worth their salt that the clubs around Arsenal were making smart hiring decisions, moving into areas we were ahead of them in, whilst laying the foundations for a brighter future.

So what did we do?

We entrusted Arsene Wenger to make magic happen with the money we were ensured would make the difference to his performance. He signed Mustafi, Perez, Xhaka, Asano, Holding, and Brammal. Mikel Arteta retired and went to City. Serge Gnabry was sold to Germany for £4.3m.

That season was a tipping point for both Arsenal and Liverpool. Both clubs took on very different strategies, one grounded in data and a clear vision, the other in mess of conflicting thoughts and whims.

The top guy at Liverpool for data is a person called Ian Graham. Before we talk about him, it’s worth noting that Liverpool owner John Henry made his money from algorithms way back in the day when he was in hedge funds, Fenway Group also had a successful baseball team (they love the Moneyball numbers game), so they know there’s value to be unlocked in spreadsheets.

Ian Graham is a smart guy, he has a doctorate in theoretical physics from Cambridge, he decided to lend his experience to football, he bummed around at Spurs for a bit though found little luck with the management, then he landed his big break. Liverpool brought him in during 2012 to create a data-centric culture for a club that had lost its way. Famously, it was Ian’s data that led to the hiring of Jurgen Klopp, he correctly assessed that his final season at Dortmund was mostly terrible because of bad luck, the xG numbers were heavily weighted against Dortmund.

Klopp loved hearing that story when they met and immediately connected with him when he joined and the rest is history.

Here’s a snippet from the NYT on how he approaches player identification.

Graham’s weightiest responsibility is helping Liverpool decide which players to acquire. He does that by feeding information on games into his formulas. What he doesn’t do is make evaluations by watching those games. “I don’t like video,” he says. “It biases you.” Graham wants the club that he works for to win, but he also wants his judgments to be validated. “All of these players, there has been discussion of their relative merits,” he said. “If they do badly, I take it as sort of a personal affront. If I think someone is a good player, I really, really want them to do well.”

His data doesn’t just inform transfers, it also helps the club understand the true performance of the team in games and training, it helps them find advantages in areas others aren’t looking, it is a true competitive advantage that is there to support an elite team of coaches with their decisions.

So what about Arsenal? Well, we’re a long way behind, but it didn’t need to be that way. Ivan G went out and bought one of the leading football data companies in the world with StatDNA. We had that in 2013. The problem? Our manager didn’t embrace it, nor his dated staff. The exec team didn’t insist on making it work. They just allowed the investment to sit in the corner gathering dust.

As I wrote about extensively yesterday, Ivan G made inroads with modernising his backroom team, knowing full well we’d neglected his purchase. He hired in Diamond Eyes, a famous data-centric scout. Sadly though, we never saw the fruits of this smart hire because our former CEO quit mid-project and left the German to the ‘contacts’ wolves. So now fast forward to 2020, we’re actually further behind in modernizing than we ever have been. One of the founders of StatDNA has left, a bunch of scouts have been fired, and our leader gets his player updates from a small selection of agents with very average taste.

ACTION ITEM: This summer, the club needs to refocus its energy on making us a data forward football club. We should make it a priority to hire someone at the cutting edge of scouting or empower talent that has shown an interest in the area at the club. Every decision we make should be underpinned by data-driven insights. It should help identify the talent with scouts out in the field to give context well before an agent is asked for an opinion. We need a new Sven and a version of Ian Graham and they should both be given a mandate. Data should not be optional in 2020. That is a backwards approach. If our Technical Director is not technical, what is the point?

Transfer Approach:

We are in a bad place with our squad at the moment, but it doesn’t have to be that way. The first thing you have to do is stop making bad decisions. Don’t give big deals to average players, stop listening super-agents, and build yourself the profile of the sort of player you need to succeed. This is how Ralph Rangnick describes his player profile for the RB group.

The difference between us and other clubs is that when we sign or scout new players, we are fishing in a very small pond. We only interested in players aged between 17 and 23, as from our experience, when you are 23 you are no longer a talent. If you look at other clubs and their development, you can see that players start their careers earlier than 10 years ago and finish earlier too. So we are only scouting those players. The maximum age is 23. The second difference is that in both clubs, we try to implement and play the same style of football and of course between the two clubs, we make use of synergies that can be developed out of those two factors.

The RB business model is predicated on moving on experienced players on so they can fund growth (and buy better kids). The player profile matches their intent. What is our player profile? Does it match our ambitions? Does it suit our finances? Does it get us closer to the Champions League? Arguably, no.

Arsenal is not being honest with themselves. Some people at the club know what we need to do, others are living in a Barca-Lite fantasyland where hobnobbing with the fancy super-agents gives them some sort of weird personal status kick.

We need to be honest about how we navigate the future and stop chasing childish dreams hoping that maybe, by accident, we’ll stumble back into the top 4.

Factors that should shape the profile:

  • Our wage bill needs to reduce drastically
  • We lack power and pace in a brutal league
  • We have a coach that is highly technical
  • This is a 5 year plan

All of that points you to a very specific profile of player we should be signing. Young, talented, technical, cheap, and ambitious. Not Cedric Soares on a 4-year deal.

Spending money well now pays huge dividends in the future. The easier it is to sell players for profit, the more money you have to play with each summer. Liverpool sussed this and managed to become Champions of England and Europe whilst being a selling club. Look at the net spends of both Arsenal and Liverpool over the last 5 years (£).

Liverpool’s 5-year net spend is £107m, Arsenal’s is £270m (TransferMarkt)

They are a selling club, raking up £400m in sale, versus our £200m. Worth noting that they haven’t sold less than £37m worth of players a season over 5 years, we had 3 seasons of not breaking £10m in sales.

Liverpool’s ground zero moment was Benteke for £50m in 2015. The Liverpool brain trust managed to keep Klopp’s spending to below zero for two seasons before they went big on two special players that helped them win the Champions League at the second attempt.

There’s also a case to be made for wages as well. Ours sits at £230m a season and we’re barely in the top half of the league. We need to cut that and improve quality. That can only come from great scouting that uncovers value. At the moment, we’re blowing £200k a week on a 33 year that all in cost £24m. Can you honestly tell me there’s not a centre back in the Bundasliga that wouldn’t have cost 30% of his salary and given us some resale value? You can’t.

We need to get back to basics because here’s another harsh slap in the face, Liverpool landed where they are spending just £100m a more on wages over 5 years (Swiss Ramble). Sounds a like a huge difference, but it’s basically one Mesut Ozil for 5 seasons.

 

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The byproduct of right-sizing and building on a plan grounded in reality is that as you get more success, you can offer more money to talent. Those big jumps in salary came as a result of more prize money and winning trophies. We are stuck in rut, throwing big money at temporary solutions as our revenue disintegrates. This approach started in 2017 and it hasn’t worked. Time to face the music and try a new way.

Raul, Edu and Arteta need to be aligned on what it takes to get back to the top. It was clear from Emery’s complaining that was not the case for him. It would seem from out business so far this year that once again, it’s a Raul/Edu production and the agents are the stars again. That is not going to be successful.

There is simply no excuse for not being at Liverpool’s level when we’ve had more resource to play with. Stan K and his KSE operation are not cheap, they have invested £163m more in transfers than Liverpool over 5 years. The problem with our owners is they keep letting visionless people spend their money. We arguably have the most broken squad of the past 20 years, we are lower in the table than we’ve been in living memory, and we are looking at team that finished 8th in 2015 lift the Premier League and the Champions League trophies 5 years later.

It is possible to get back to the elite, you just need a plan.

Action Items:

  • Get a grip on the contract issues so we stop losing high-value talent for next to nothing
  • Focus on buying younger players with higher ceilings so we can grow value
  • Become a better selling club by enforcing the 2-year deal rule
  • Offer market rate contracts so players don’t get fat and stay with us if things don’t work out.
  • Ban super-agents from the exec box

The Coach:

I won’t labour on this point for too long, but Liverpool pulled off a masterstroke with Jurgen Klopp. He was the right man for the right moment. He wanted to rebuild a fallen giant. That meant he was happy to work with a brain trust, he understood that success wouldn’t be overnight, and he was happy to play the net spend game until the clubs finances repaired.

Arsenal didn’t hire Klopp. We blew the chance for that sort of coach when our ‘experience’ hire ended up being Emery. We let the Spaniard spend more in 18 months (£161m) than Klopp has spent in his entire Liverpool career to date (£75m).

Now we’re in a new moment. The club has little to no money, it has a broken squad, and the wage bill simply has to be crushed if we’re to survive the next 3 years.

Arteta, if things go well, is the correct coach for this moment in time. He loves Arsenal FC, which means he’s committed to restoring it. It’s his first job and he’s extremely ambitious, that means he has extra capital invested in making sure he doesn’t fail. He’s an exceptional coach, which means he’s is perfectly suited to helping our young squad of kids grow into their careers. The ceiling for him is the very top.

The expectations are also at an all-time low for Arsenal fans. No one is expecting much from the club at the moment. That sort of environment relieves a bit of the pressure on a green coach and it certainly gives the young players a better environment to work in.

Arteta has worked in a high-performance culture. To thrive, he needs to work with like-minded people with the interests of our great football club at heart. Those experts should be on Arsenal’s payroll. Decisions should never be influenced by grifters. Every single person needs to be pulling in the direction of an exciting agreed-upon vision. That is the only way it works.

Actions Points:

  • Allow the coach to do his thing and support his vision for how we grow the team
  • Back his aggressive push for a high-performance culture. Ship out players and staff that don’t meet the standards.
  • Build an infrastructure around him that pushes him to be better. He has no bad habits as a coach, there’s no legacy, that means he’ll be open to new ideas and ways of working.
  • Find the very best people in the game and bake them into the project. Who is the new Sven? Who is the new Ian Graham? Who are the elite young coaches in the game that could bring fresh thinking to the squad? Are there any cool ideas we can borrow from The Rams?
  • Support the manager with players that fit the profile of how he wants to play football. Fast, intelligent, mobile and hungry to be the best at what they do.

So to conclude this monster.

There is always hope. We are a beast of a club. We have the name, the training facilities, great staff, and more than enough revenue to do great things if we get creative this summer. We just need a bit of honesty about where we are as a club, we need a strategy to get back to the top, then we need to make sure every single action we take as a club is in support of the vision.

The success story at Liverpool has shown Arsenal the way forward, the question is, can Raul and Edu step to the occasion, or do we have to search out a new leadership team to help us finally make the jump?

We’ll find out very soon.

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Boomslang

Boom

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2

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3

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Trifle

Frankilyte

HELLO

henleygooner

europa league

Goonerkitt

Morning Pedro,
Great post and never a truer word spoken

Sid

Europa

Phil

What an excellent article, following yesterday’s Arsenal topic. First time posting a reply on a site I have been tuned into for years. THATS how good the two articles were

peanuts&monkeys

“Arteta, if things go well, is the correct coach for this moment in time. He loves Arsenal FC, which means he’s committed to restoring it. It’s his first job and he’s extremely ambitious, that means he has extra capital invested in making sure he doesn’t fail. ”

‘if things go well’? Only if everything is fine? Is he a fairweather manager then?

Goonerkitt

Unless there are wholesale changes we will be condemned to a decade of mediocrity. Makes all that talk of competing with the likes of Bayern Munich seem all the more like the talk of a snake oil salesmen

Frankilyte

Well written Pedro, we should look at liverpool template as an option. I doubt if Raul/Edu can deliver it

Uwot?

Great,Great write up peds. Perhaps one of your very best.The contrast between us & the mickey mousers is laid bare for all to see.Im being serious when I say you should email it off to Arteta or Josh.what harm could it do?

Graham62

The bottom line in all of this Pedro is we have a disconnected owner.

If Kroenke had a connection with the club and it’s fans, we wouldn’t be in this mess.

As I highlighted on the previous post, if he had this in his armoury Arsène Wenger would have gone years ago, Emery would never have been hired and we could have avoided all this turmoil.

If Arsenal are to truly progress, Kroenke has to go.

Gentlebris

‘By the way Emery was on a two year deal and I am on record saying it should not be extended. So again figments of your imagination me asking for an 8 year deal.’ There are actually two Pedros. There is the one that writes passionately about Arsenal football and dig in to find and state things as they are, making his blog the best Arsenal blog in the world(I have not come across that Pedro in a long long time), and there is another Pedro who is an agenda pushing machine, a football Mugabe and a Mr Bean if… Read more »

Goonerkitt

I don’t think the blame lies entirely at the feet of the krankies. We were always two players away from something be it the team that could go on and dominate in the way Liverpool and the Manchester have done in t the past ,staying competitive for the league title or of late a champions league team. It has always been the Arsenal way unfortunately

@Graham62

Spot on mate. That’s difference between Liverpool and Arsenal. They have owners that want to win, want to be the best, we have an owner that genuinely doesn’t give a fuck and even if we were relegated his asset still makes him money.
We could get pep and klopp in as joint managers, but while kroenke remains in charge they’ll win nothing.

Gentlebris

‘We have a coach that is highly technical’

Yet he insisted on Mari, Cedric and Luiz.

Yeah, highly technical indeed.

‘This is a 5 year plan’

Yet you couldn’t stop hammering on Emery within a year.

Receding Hairline

Good post The last round of contract extension and signings handed out showed we still don’t have a plan. Edu looks like he is out of his depth. As for the whole hand the keys of the kingdom to Arteta thing, I still maintain its far too early for that. He still has quite a lot to prove. Liverpool trusted Klopp a title winning coach. Spurs trusted Poch after some good work at two previous clubs. You are asking we hand the keys to the club to an ex assistant coach with two and half years experience. I can’t buy… Read more »

@Gentlebris

I agree with you, because if Arteta genuinely wanted Soares, Mari,Luiz etc , then he is clueless.
But if he didn’t want these players and they were signed over his head, then he actually has very little input and was just signed as a figurehead to appease the fans. Either way we’re fucked.

As I’ve said before, we’ll get rid of the shit we have at the club, to be replaced by joorabchian’s shit players. The only people who will be happy will be Edu,Raul, and joorabchian as they’ll be coining it in. Arsenal are a mid table team now and I can’t see that changing in my lifetime.

Gentlebris

Kroenke had a good manager he trusted in place, you guys printed banners and flew planes to force Kroenke to fire the man. He did. And now that the heroes you desired are running the club, you are still putting the blame of their failures on poor old Kroenke who has allowed the club to spend £200m in less than 2.5 years?

Receding Hairline

And I think it’s time you admit Emery wasn’t hired to build anything here. The club was desperate to get back into the UCL and hired a man they believed could chop and changer his way into it and it nearly worked. He didn’t get the players he wanted so go saying he spent 160m is also false. No one is jumping on Arteta back, he has a full season next season to live up to the hype. If he does we are all better for it as fans. You painting he has a tougher job than his predecessor just… Read more »

Sid

Arteta is a yes man, beta male, diet Pep
arsenal is a case study of the Peter principle

@Gemtlebris
Sorry you are massively wrong. Wenger was finished as a manager and had been for about 7-8 years. Proof of that is fact noone has approached to be a manager since he left. And I will say fact we’re in this shit mess is because fans like you protected Wenger for far to long

englandsbest

Pedro, tbh I gave up reading your lengthy exposition a quarter of the way through. I see nothing of virtue in extolling Liverpool success – the prospect of another 20 year period of scouser dominance sickens me.

Nor do I have your faith in the latest fashion in football – the pseudo-scientific approach. Nor, I imagine, does any half-decent manager. It reminds me of Wenger and his ‘magic vitamin elixir’. PR to get the players to believe in him.

The fundamentals for success don’t change: good players, a manager who can get the best out of them, a dedicated ownership.

Guns of Hackney

Excellent. Really good but… We aren’t a beast of a club. We’re really not. Never have been actually. Only Manchester United and Liverpool are really known outside of the premier league and around the world. Perhaps Chelsea at a push but the other two are the clubs from the UK that everyone knows. The common string: Europe. Or more specifically, European cups on the biggest stages. Paraphrasing Keith Richards while talking trash about Liam Gallagher back in the day: “come back to me when someone in a small market in India recognises you”… We aren’t a powerhouse. You can’t say… Read more »

Sid

All the fashionable football and sceintific approach work when you have the basic in the first place.

Can’t believe there are still idiots out their wanting Wenger back.

alexanderhenry

Pedro That all makes sense, but comparing the Fenway group to KSE is like comparing Japanese Kobe beef with the contents of a Greggs steak bake. Giving them as an example only shows the gaping chasm that separates both sporting entities- in every way. Look at Fenway group’s record. They acquired the Boston red sox in 2001 and have won the World Series four times. Bear in mind that before Fenway took over the red sox hadn’t won it since 1918. Now, they’ve established Liverpool fc as the best club in the PL- the world’s most competitive league. They’ve been… Read more »

Gentlebris

‘Sorry you are massively wrong. Wenger was finished as a manager and had been for about 7-8 years. Proof of that is fact noone has approached to be a manager since he left. And I will say fact we’re in this shit mess is because fans like you protected Wenger for far to long’ 7-8 years? My goodness! Such a long long time! But care to explain how we remained in CL for at least 7 of those 8 years under a ‘finished’ manager while other clubs under unfinished managers were kept out of the CL? Care to explain how… Read more »

Gentlebris

‘Can’t believe there are still idiots out their wanting Wenger back.’

This line of yours just sold you out as nothing but a hater. I wanted the man gone too, but never hated him. Looking as things stand now, the man is gradually being justified.

And talking about idiots, you should run for the chairmanship position of the council of idiots. Your post above will hand you victory unopposed.

3 fa cups big fucking whoopee doo. 2 of those cups we won because we played teams shitter than us and had virtually all home draws against lower league clubs to the title. Sorry Wenger was shit in his last 7 years at Arsenal, and fact we’re in this mess is because of him. But yeah Wenger was brilliant. Routinely humiliated against the top clubs, and towards the end of his reign we were beginning to get spanked on a regular basis by the smaller teams.

@Gentlebris

Says the idiot who wants a busted flush if a manager back. Seriously stick to another sport as you know fuck all about football

Jamie

Strong piece today. The only part I don’t like is comparing Klopp’s spend (£75m)to Emery’s (£160m). I get that net spend matters, but only in context. Our record transfer out is still probably Oxlade-Chamberlain (£35m?) back in 2017. Liverpool eclipsed that way back in 2011 with Torres (£50 odd million). Then again in 2015 with Suarez (£75m). Then again 2016 with Sterling (£55m). Then again in 2018 with Coutinho (£130m). That last one is almost 4 x our biggest ever sale on its own. All those sales allowed Klopp to drop almost £200m in one year (2018) on just 3… Read more »

alexanderhenry

Gentlebris

Fair points. Wenger had to go but since then we’ve been worse.
All those years of mocking 4th seem a little ill judged now.

Gentlebris

Sid,

If diet Pep means poor man’s Pep, then you are wrong. Poor Man’s Pep is in Germany, running Leipzig.

Arteta is simply a fake Pep with neither value nor promise.

Gentlebris

Alex,

Bless you.

Freddie Ljungberg

Wenger justified? Because it takes more than 2 years to unfuck the mess he created and get all his overpaid, low value, no ambition, ageing players off the book so we can move forwards?

Yeah, don’t think so, this was always going to take longer to fix. He devalued the squad year on year in his last decade, never replacing top players, never buying what we needed, letting contracts run out, buying badly, selling worse. It doesn’t get fixed at the snap of a finger ffs.

@Freddie
Spot on. Noone can deny how amazing Wenger was for us in his early years. The triumphs, the style of football we played. The amazing players that we were lucky to see grace the Highbury pitch. But in his last 7-8 years his arrogance destroyed Arsenal.

Let’s be honest, no manager in pl history has had as many humiliating results against them as Wenger has.

Guns of Brixton

Excellent read

Kay

Wenger was a bit too rigid. Had he been flexible like red nose, he would have left on a high. Back when it was announced that he would leave I told that we needed atleast 2 or 3 years to rebuild since he left us with a very ageing squad with lots of past it players which is costing us till date. We just have to admit we have wasted another 4 years on top of 7 years that Wenger overstayed. I would also want to reiterate that we can’t follow the RB model or Dortmund model in EPL. EPL… Read more »

Kay

Coutinho not continuous

Kay

Wow Jamie
Great minds and all that ,😊

Uwot?

Time to move on from wenger guys.Whatever your viewpoint as either messiah or last decade shit show he’s gone .put it to bed & lets look forward.Whats done is done & we’re having to deal with it.Thats why I admire today’s post & possible solutions………..

Gentlebris

Wenger justified? Because it takes more than 2 years to unfuck the mess he created and get all his overpaid, low value, no ambition, ageing players off the book so we can move forwards?Yeah, don’t think so, ‘this was always going to take longer to fix. He devalued the squad year on year in his last decade, never replacing top players, never buying what we needed, letting contracts run out, buying badly, selling worse. It doesn’t get fixed at the snap of a finger ffs.’ Spot on to you from me too. But I’m a little confused and I hope… Read more »

Daniel Altos

Sokratis had more big chances created in the Pl than Mesut Ozil lol…pepe leads by 7

The only possible solution for us to move forward is somehow getting kroenke to sell up. Only way.

Graham62

Gentlebris As an Arsenal fan, which you claim you are, what were your perceptions about our club from around 2010, or even just before this? Was it all about qualifying for top 4, no matter what? Was it to win nothing but at least play pretty football?. Ok, granted, we won 3 FA Cups in fourteen years but, based on where we stood when we moved to the Emirates in 2006, was this enough for you? How many times did fans of other clubs come up to you and say Arsenal were a bit of a joke and that Wenger… Read more »

Kay

Should have gone after 8-2.
Just can’t digest it till date!! May be never.

@Graham62

Beautifully put. Thank you

@Graham62

Who can ever forget the Bayern’s team reaction when they got us in the CL. They were in hysterics .

Graham62

Gentlebris

One final question.

When we left Highbury in 2006, if someone had told you that 14 years later we’d be in the position we find ourselves now, what would you have felt?

Remember, and I know it’s very difficult for you, forget the ten years prior to 2006.

Have we progressed or regressed?

Just curious.

Jamie

I dig your style, Kay!

Gentlebris

‘Time to move on from wenger guys.Whatever your viewpoint as either messiah or last decade shit show he’s gone .put it to bed & lets look forward.Whats done is done & we’re having to deal with it.Thats why I admire today’s post & possible solutions…’ I see it like that too, but some here wouldn’t stop bashing the man and calling him unprintable names. Wenger made his mistakes like other mortals and became arrogant in a reaction to pressure. But as years go by, it will become clearer and clearer that he did a decent job. Personally, I never realized… Read more »

Rich

Pedro nice to see you’re making some of the points you’ve previously told me I was wrong about. We’re not a squad that should be finishing third. Emery didn’t spend that money, he wanted Partey and Zaha, we don’t know how many of the other signings were his? But my guess is maybe only Suarez on loan? But what do you expect when you’re told you can only sign a loan player? it’s not like Arteta’s been much more astute in Mari + Soares. Transfers are a concern, particularly if Arteta isn’t asking to renew Luiz or sign Soares and… Read more »

Arsenal played beautiful football up to the time we sold van persie and fabregas. After that the football was ok, nothing special.

englandsbest

Apologies, Pedro, I went back to read the rest of your post – and found it spot on – in particular on the merits of Mikel, and the status of Arsenal.

The history of the Club speaks for itself, nobody needs to defend it.

Arteta needs defending. He is accused of being a ‘rookie’, lacking experience of management. To me that means he will improve.

alexanderhenry

Gentlebris

Thanks, but I think it’s unfair to write arteta off at this stage.

Overall, my view has always been that the real problem with arsenal is its owner.
I’ve always said that- as many on here know.

Arsnil

At the end of the day, no matter how you assess them its all about the players you bring in and let go. In this league they have to be hard working and fast as well as skillful. Far too many of our purchases have been absolute overpaid dross.

Gentlebris

Graham, Sorry what makes you feel you were entitled to anything? Newcastle have fans remember? And if Liverpool had not won those CLs, I believe their fans would have happily made their happy noises in the stadium till things happened for them after 30 years. So Graham, what makes you think another team had no right to beat you team with a wide margin in a game of football and having beat others like that under the same man? What? A sense of entitlement? A sense of entitlement so big that would create excuses to write off 3 FA trophies… Read more »

Dissenter

Pedro ‘ We let the Spaniard spend more in 18 months (£161m) than Klopp has spent in his entire Liverpool career to date (£75m). ’ How’d you man? Why would you even write something so blatantly false ? You’ve credited Mislintat with the good signings of that era and blamed Raul for the bad ones. Other than maybe Denis Suarez in a loan deal, which other players did Emery bring in? He wanted Banega- we said no. He wanted Zaha – he got Pepe. He wanted Mustafi and Ozil gone – we couldn’t deliver. He wanted a defender after Koschielny… Read more »

Arsnil

If we were a ‘real’ club with balls, given what has gone on with Guendozi and Ozil (over a much longer period of time) then you stop paying their wages until they toe the line and start earning them. Not happy then go. Because to stay you become a disease.

Freddie Ljungberg

Gentlebris

That team you describe, that beat all those top teams and played beautiful football, was that the team that Wenger left behind in 2018 or had he already sold all the truly top talent players and replaced with lesser players on gigantic, long contracts?

The only one approaching world class that he left from that era is Auba and he’s now being played out of position. Many also claim he was bought over Wengers head when his powers started to fade at the club.

Freddie Ljungberg

Arsnil

Yeah, I don’t think that’s the way contracts work.

Dissenter

*loaned him out

Gentlebris

‘Thanks, but I think it’s unfair to write arteta off at this stage.’

Welcome, man.

I have nothing against Arteta, but commonsense dictates that what we need to navigate us away from these problems is not a prospect who had never led a team before at any level.

No matter what can be argued, that is commonsense.

Jamie

“then you stop paying their wages until they toe the line and start earning them”

This is funny.

Pedro

Dissenter, amazing you are still getting offended for Unai Emery, even now. 3000 words and your take away was tears for a bum. Unreal carry-on.

Graham62

The trouble is with certain posters on here is that they are in denial. They see folk like me as a Wenger “obsessive” or an “entitled fan”. So be it. They question our/my loyalty to the club and give nothing but excuses for all our clubs failings over the years. They rant about the present because that’s all they see. They don’t realise where we could/should have been if certain actions had taken place years before. We had everything in place, but it all fell apart. We have a world class stadium and infrastructure that is second to none but… Read more »

Pierre

Thank you and goodnight “Arsenal played beautiful football up to the time we sold van persie and fabregas. After that the football was ok, nothing special.” The football was beautiful , but unfortunately we failed to win any trophies with that team ..great team though built from nothing , costing pennies, that should have gone on to greater things. Surprisingly (for some , not me) , the trophies only started arriving when a certain hated German arrived at the club…coincidence, possibly. Was the Ozil, cazorla , Sanchez team better than the cesc, rvp , ade, Nasri side, probably not, but… Read more »

Left testicle

Ozil out for tomorrows game with injured wrist. The injury occurred whilst holding a sun shade in the Southampton game.

🙂

Pierre

Graham
“The trouble is with certain posters on here is that they are in denial. They see folk like me as a Wenger “obsessive” or an “entitled fan”. So be it.”

That’s because you are .

You post up to 20 comments a day denigrating Wenger…..that’s obsessive.

Daniel Altos

Has Cg highlighted that Burnley are above us in the table yet?

Gentlebris

‘That team you describe, that beat all those top teams and played beautiful football, was that the team that Wenger left behind in 2018 or had he already sold all the truly top talent players and replaced with lesser players on gigantic, long contracts?’

I thought you guys claim that Wenger was finished ten years before he left? So I felt I had to analyze his last ten years so as to see how finished he truly was.

Champagne Charlie

Wenger getting the usual pants pulled down in the face of any valid commentary about him. Standard.

Gentlebris is correct in what he says, but there’s an audience here that won’t tolerate anything but an abusive blame culture. We were better when Wenger was here all seasons bar the final one yet it’s all his fault that since he’s gone we’ve been muck. Makes all the sense.

Receding Hairline

Pedro you can’t keep masking some of your falsehoods with attempts at being witty or dismissive. Dissenter was right to call out that deceptive line.

Emery didn’t spend anything, you were on here celebrating him not getting the Banegas and the Nzonzi’s, extolling the virtues of diamond eyes purchases. Now its Emery spent 160m…..

Moray

Good write up, Pedders. There’s an interesting dichotomy here between The business (data-led, well run, sensible signings, proper governance and oversight) and football (kick it to the big guy, get stuck in, run at them). We are doing both badly and the two sides of the coin are not mutually exclusive. Another fact is that Football is changing. Our revenue streams are changing. How The club should be run financially, how we consider our marketing and sponsorships, no doubt how contracts stack up…all is changing and changing quickly. what worries me is that we couldn’t even get a handle on… Read more »

Graham62

CC

Am I being abusive?

“bar the final one”

😂😂

Receding Hairline

My carry on? I was responding to comments from someone who was responding back. Don’t see what was spectacular about it.

As for the bamford thing are you gearing up for a ban? Enjoy yourself

G8

Well written post Pedro
Liverpool with the ambitious John Henry had to go with few managers before they got klopp., so there is some hope for arsenal, though as been said extending contracts for the likes of luiz and Mari is not very encouraging at all
I see you have included the trio of Raul, Edu and Arteta to take the responsibility, hope you don’t spare Arteta the blame if things don’t improve next season

At the end of the day, it’s only football
Lets keep it simple

Graham62

Pierre

Right on cue.

Champagne Charlie

On cue his defence assembles. Emery spent 160 mil. Whether or not he has final say on the player in question is of no significance, the identification of the position in the squad was done so WITH the managers input – even then there’s nobody with any clue as to how much he wanted player X instead of Y, pure conjecture. Emery subsequently oversaw 160 mil of investment into the team under his collaboration and selection of squad needs. Unless someone is going to offer up the concept that Raul came to the manager and told him what positions he… Read more »

Graham62

CC

and I thought you were the intelligent one on here.

bennydevito

Great post Pedro and I’ll give the podcast a listen to tonight. I have to disagree with the money though. Klopp spent significantly more than £75m and Emery didn’t spend £160m. Forget net spend, that’s like false positives. Klopp spent £200m on VVD, Salah and the GK alone, not to mention 100s on others. Emery didn’t get any players he wanted. He wanted Maguire, Zaha and Partey but got Sokratis, Lichsteiner, Torreira and Pepe. You really are comparing chalk with cheese here but the rest of the post is spot on. The club need to be sold, Raul needs to… Read more »

Al

Thiago Silva being linked now.

This would be a great short-term risk I’d take for the season as long as we sell two out of chambers, Sok or Mustafi

bennydevito

What pisses me off is the money spent on fees and wages on Sokratis, Lichsteiner, Suarez, Luiz, Mari and Cedric we could have bought Upamecano outright and been much better off for it.

The news that we’ve sacked a load of scouts and are no longer using the Stat DNA system is so depressing. We simply don’t have the money to Man city chequebook our way to the top and without good enough players it doesn’t matter how good Arteta’s coaching and tactics are if you have players like Luiz, Mustafi and Xhaka fucking it up every other game.

Guns of Hackney

Best defender in the world. Check.
Best GK in the world. Not Cech but Check.
League, CL win and Runners up.
Best attack in Europe. Maybe.

It’s all about when you spend, how and on what. Let’s roll the clock back a few years. If we had done the right thing and not tried to be the smartest idiot in the room, we would have Suarez and probably have won the league.

Arsenal are bad investors. Simple.

GunnerDNA

I wanted AW out but if I knew Arsenal would be like this 2 seasons after he left, It would be in the Club’s best interest to keep him, until a proper succession plan was in place. Emery failed and was rightly sacked but I still can’t understand why Arsenal went and hire Mikle when an experience manager like Carlo Ancelotti was available. Arsenal need some experience to get more from these players because the longer we’re out of Europe the less we have to invest in the team. AW worse season is better than anything we watching now. Arsenal… Read more »

bennydevito

Pedro, My takeaway isn’t poor Emery at all. I didn’t want Emery but we have to be fair. Emery didn’t get the players he wanted versus Klopp getting players exactly suited to what was needed added to Klopp being a much better coach added to Liverpool having more money available to skew the netspend by selling Coutinho, Suarez and Sterling amongst others. I praised your post Pedro, your analysis of the way the 2 clubs are run was excellent. My takeaway is that we are in a real mess and in serious trouble, and if Arteta is only going to… Read more »

Useroz

“Raul, Edu and Arteta need to be aligned on what it takes to get back to the top.“ They don’t, actually. Arsenal’s short to medium term interest will be better served if Raul and Edu are sacked ASAP. With these (and their sucker agents) around the club, Arteta won’t have what it takes to get us back to the top. The paragraph on boasting Arsenal at best should be written in past tense. Sadly we are now also rans as much as it hurts to type it. Can’t even get better than average home grown kids to sign! Ffs. I… Read more »

Useroz


bennydevitoJune 30, 2020 12:14:57
What pisses me off is the money spent on fees and wages on Sokratis, Lichsteiner, Suarez, Luiz, Mari and Cedric we could have bought Upamecano outright and been much better off for it.”

We all should get upset about it, but some wouldn’t Strangely.

What you are saying is what progressive clubs with vision and leadership would do.

Not Arsenal. Not now at least.

David Smith

Excellent article. no harm in having hope or debating a possible plan. Trouble is, to go with such a plan, would be helpful if we had someone on the board who is knowledgeable, dynamic, lives and breathes the club, to counter Kroenkes attitude towards it. But no way will Raul allow someone like that in while he remains. As for Wenger, too easy just blame him for the current mess,. He had a long decline, marked by many and varied steps, the stadium, the new money, the Barca infatuation, the boards stupid decision to get rid of David Dein, replacing… Read more »

Useroz

anyone believes the media bs about us talking to psg to extend saliba’ loan deal??

Bojangles

“we’re blowing £200k a week on a 33 year that all in cost £24m. ”

Say it often enough and others will believe it’s true.

Guns of Hackney

Dein got himself thrown out.

The board were ageing and were looking to cash out…and that’s okay.

Everyone was sceptical about the Oligarch but the down home American was the nice guy who would stay silent and keep up the ‘Arsenal traditions’. Whatever the fuck they are.

Everyone is culpable and to blame Arsene is utterly ridiculous.

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