Finance options we shouldn’t take

by .

Happy Saturday people. There are some rumours doing the rounds on the internet that Raul is exploring player financing options via a special fund that was started off the back of a super-agent transfer back in the day. The fund in question is called 23 Capital. They help clients in music, entertainment, and sport gain access to liquidity. This is from their website.

Our capital and solutions capabilities encompass straightforward advances through to more complex, off balance sheet structures. We offer artists, entertainers and professional sports teams the freedom to create, inspire and compete supported by finance that is flexible and most importantly fair.

If you are out of a job right now and struggling to make ends meet, you might find this sort of copy on a payday loans website. The operation looks opaque and it’s quite complicated to explain, but here’s The Guardian making sense of it through the lens of a deal for Silva.

A few days after confirmation of Silva’s move XXIII Capital began trading. Companies House showed a registration of charge document was filed on 11 September 2014 for an unspecified amount. The company was listed as being controlled by the Candlewood Investment Group, based in New York but registered in the tax haven of the Cayman Islands.

So what does all this have to do with Bernardo Silva? His move to Monaco was made permanent in January 2015 for €15.75m but it would be another year before the story became clearer. In January 2016 the Football Leaks website published three documents which revealed details of the transactions between Benfica and Monaco.

The first two concerned the agreement for Silva’s loan and permanent move and the third – dated 10 July 2015 – shows the mandate for the first instalment of the transfer fee: €5.25m. What seemed unusual, however, was that while Monaco were listed as the liable party it was XXIII Capital who were due to receive the funds rather than Benfica.

Other documents later explained that XXIII Capital had purchased the credit from the Portuguese club, a method employed for numerous other transfers in that period, including that of the midfielder Giannelli Imbula’s move to Porto from Marseille in 2015.

Benfica described their actions as “a normal financial operation”, although there was no mention of XXIII Capital in their annual financial report in 2015. That states the profit from the sale of Silva was €12.855m, meaning almost €3m appears to have gone elsewhere.

Given the lack of official documentation it is difficult to know exactly how that money has been distributed. It is likely that at least 10% of the total fee would have been allocated to Gestifute for its brokering services; records state Mendes’ company received €3.995m from Benfica that final year, which also included the transfer of João Cancelo to Valencia for €15m. The question remains how much was paid to XXIII Capital in exchange for the acquisition of the credit, with potentially €1.3m not accounted for from the €15.75m total loaned in three instalments – an amount that corresponds to 9%

The firm, run by a Brit (Spurs fan) and an Aussie, has gained ‘credibility’ for brokering the deals for Griezmann and João Félix. The reason Barcelona used them is because they couldn’t gain credit through normal channels… but again, read this and tell me it doesn’t sound like they’re solving a problem that is there for a reason.

“All clubs will absolutely have the same need and challenge around the fact that their intangible assets, the players, suck up all their liquidity,”

“If you think around the principles of a transfer, you have the selling club who want the money up front, and why not, and you have a buying club who for a whole range of reasons want to defer the payment. We often get involved and can say: ‘We can solve both your needs, help one have their money up front and help the other defer over five years.’ All you need to negotiate is the cost of the finance.”

This looks very much like short-termism that has been allowed to flourish (in normal times) because football clubs are not run like proper businesses. This from football finance expert Kieran Maguire, of the University of Liverpool, sums up why the game is so ripe for this sort of service.

“They have realised that the transfer market and the club transaction market is unregulated, often unprofessional and contains people who see football as an opportunity for an easy profit. If anyone can then come in and run a professional service and effectively provide a one-stop shop, then there is a gap in the market,”

“A boutique operation, and that is what they are, don’t have to go through so many layers of approval, don’t have to go through governance rules you may see at JP Morgan, where a bank of that nature is very risk concerned and will have a compliance department, which to a certain extent is the tail wagging the dog in corporate lending.”

I’ve just finished a book called Den of Thieves that tracks the career of Michael Milken and his rise to prominence in the 80s as the ‘King of Junk Bonds.’ To be clear, I’m not drawing comparisons to the man and the illegal acts he committed, but what does draw parallels how junk bonds were also marketed with a ‘this is good for everyone’ vibe. Selling club gets the cash, the buying club gets long payment terms, agents get fees, the finance firm gets fees… everyone is a winner, right?

We are about to find out.

The junk bond market in the eighties gave small companies with limited assets access to the credit they needed to buy huge companies in hostile takeovers. Everyone looked like a winner. Then it all came crashing down, because in the end, someone had to pay the bill when firms were crushed by the weight of interest payments they eventually defaulted on.

Giving football clubs access to the capital they can’t get through normal channels could prove to be problematic. Barca’s £100m purchase of Griezmann; that they couldn’t afford, now looks an unmitigated disaster because the exponential growth of the transfer market has come crashing down along with major revenues streams. In response, most normal clubs have reduced wages by 20%. Barca savaged them by 75% to stave off problems (so did Atletico). The question is, how bad are their financial issues? What we know for sure is they’ll never recoup that Griezmann money if they need it, the transfer market has gone to shit for at least 3 years, but Barca are still left footing a bill for the player and the fees they had to go outside the system to get.

In normal times, no problem, but now? There could be trouble. The reason the Spanish banks wouldn’t lend is because Barca borrowed £500m for their new stadium. To put their financial exposure into perspective, they turned over almost a billion euro (€990 million) in revenue last year and only made £17m in profit. That’s a 1.7% profit margin in the GOOD times. Razor-thin margins like that mean you have little room for bumps in the road, well, that bump in the road has arrived and it’s a meteor landing on the M25 during rush hour.

There aren’t many people that are serious about risk assessment when it comes to finances. We’re optimistic by nature and short-term needs usually override rational decision making, which is why we make dumb decisions. So when someone offers you ‘fair terms’ you sign them. Did all the poor suckers that took WONGA loans worry about terms in the fine print? No. They needed the money and likely didn’t think about the worst case. What they didn’t realise is that no one gives out loans to customers with shit credit ratings without fail-safes and fat profits for the risk. The terms are always weighted to make money, otherwise, there would be no point.

Football is the wild west. It’s a naive industry that has been savaged by vultures. Super agents taking disgraceful fees, rampant back-channel dealing, transfer fee manipulation, and middlemen sucking the life out of the game. It’s all there. It’s barely disguised. Fans just let the party roll on, as long as there are superstars on the pitch. There will be a day of reckoning though. It’s out of control and I suspect we’ll start to see some of that happen over the next year or so as over-leveraged clubs start to make big financial decisions on who does and does not get paid.

Back to my point. I have no idea if Raul is interested in utilizing this sort of fund for transfers. A random twitter account saying they know stuff they don’t is an annual thing Arsenal fans foolishly engage with. What I will say is that it wouldn’t shock me that it’s being suggested. We hired Unai Emery because an agent recommended him when all data and anecdotal evidence pointed to him being a bad pick, we have football leadership that seems susceptible to cajoling by super agents. Borrowing next seasons transfer budget to make the Champions League was a gamble we took last season that will likely fail, but at least it’s money we knew we had. Doubling down on that gamble, but with an outside financier would be reckless, especially in a climate where the natural appreciation of player value has stopped.

These deals and financing offerings only work for the people making monster fees off the back of them. Junk bonds had a day of reckoning, people lost jobs, healthy companies disappeared… but you know who didn’t suffer? The people making the fees off the back of them. Beware the financiers with the ‘too good to be true’ products. There is always a catch and it rarely benefits the consumer (fan).

Arsenal might not have money. We might be struggling with cashflow. It might be a tough couple of years. What we don’t need is a ‘fair’ loan from a company registered in the Cayman Islands. We have a billionaire that runs Arsenal. He has $10b worth of wealth and he could access liquidity in a heartbeat. He’s already come out of this covid nightmare £300m richer. If we need to borrow money at fair rates, let’s go through the normal channels.

See you in the comments.

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R.S.P.C.Arsenal

Marc

That’s that cunt wengers doing

His capitalism output fucked up the greed
Ain’t good .

R.S.P.C.Arsenal

Hey..
Don’t disrespect the clough…

Classs
Won it all bar the fa cup…

Complete oppo to wenger.

CG

RSPCA

“”””Hey..
Don’t disrespect the clough…Classs
Won it all bar the fa cup…Complete oppo to wenger.””””

I would say they are very similar.

Both proponents in playing the beautiful game ,not cheating or being cynical.
Both of them don’t deal with the spivs.
Both of them in the pantheon of greatest managers of all time.

And never ever to be forgotten by their clubs real ‘loyal’ supporters.

Only at modern day Arsenal with its entitled fan base – would our Wenger ever get spoken about like he does.

And don’t worry- we are going the same direction as Forest too.

R.S.P.C.Arsenal

Cg

I saw cloughs forest beat us at home 3-1
Best counter attacking football in have ever seen.
Flawless they wore the white away kit..
Boom boom fucking boom.

Brilliant game
Even tho we lost…
Back to back big cup.
Cloughie forever

CG

RSPCA

“”””I saw cloughs forest beat us at home 3-1
Best counter attacking football in have ever seen.
Flawless they wore the white away kit..
Boom boom fucking boom.”””””

Absolutely,
Brilliant observation.

The original counter attackers.
They always beat us around that time.
And that FA Cup Q/F match too,

A total genius.
Such a pure football team.

HillWood

CG
Clough didn’t deal with spivs because he was one
Don’t get me wrong he was a fantastic manager
Wonder why the FA never gave him the England job ?
To a large extent because of his penchant for brown envelopes

CG

hill wood

“””””CG Clough didn’t deal with spivs because he was one””””””

He was a cradle to grave socialist- he didn’t have a spivvy bone in his body,

Like our Wenger – probably stayed too long at his club.

Cloughie wanted an FA Cup so desperately ( FA Cup was the biggest trophy around those days)
Like our Wenger wanted a Champions League.

Cloughie went 42 unbeaten.
Wenger went 49 unbeaten.

Both irreplaceable as we will continue to see with Forest and Arsenal.

HillWood

CG
The point is you could have named a better knight in shining armour than Brian Clough as your antithesis to The Spiv
The impeccable Sir Bobby Robson for example

Bob N16

Hillwood, I always thought that the FA didn’t go for Clough because he was too outspoken for them and unwilling to wear a blazer!

Marc

Bob

Are you telling me that Clough didn’t wear a suit as manager?

Bob N16

Joorabchian pushing Coutinho onto us? If we could loan him for a season for a reasonable’ amount, should we?

Bob N16

Marc, my tongue was slightly in my cheek but I think he preferred a sweat shirt as his top layer (green) with a collared casual shirt underneath. He didn’t go full Pulís.

https://www.premierleague.com/managers/414/Brian-Clough/overview

HillWood

Bob
Do try to keep up

Bob N16

Sorry Hillwood, not sure what you mean by ‘do try and keep up’.

Marc

Bob

I’m just surprised CG would hold someone in such high esteem who clearly dressed so badly.

Honest I really am!

Marc

Un

With you there – he’s a decent player but I was never overawed by him when he was at Liverpool and was just staggered when Barca paid 140 odd million for him. He’d also want crazy wages.

Bob N16

Landing Coutinho on loan would strike me as an agent getting his client placed rather than a club targeting a player. It’s a no from me!

Marc

Bob

Which makes me think it’s a story put out by his agent trying to drum up some interest.

CG

Cloughie, SBR, Wenger or GG never ever forget- The Arsenal deserve men of this calibre as their manager.

Great clubs have Great managers.

Bob N16

Paper talk, ‘Arteta desperate to sign Coutinho’.

CG

Cloughie was always immaculately turned out when at Derby County.

Only at Forest and after he won his 2 European Cups , did the famous green jersey come out.

Bob N16

Unai – sounding a little priest like!

Marc

Un

Can’t I go pissed up and happy instead!

Dissenter

Valentin That’s was a very incisive summation of the issues at stake regarding Aubameyang My viewpoint is that the most important thing is to sell him to cut our losses. If will be ideal to get a replacement for him but fixing the midfield is far more important. We have youthful options that will compete for striker but our midfield is really really bad. That’s where we need to divert the proceeds of the Auba sale to. You got me with that comment about people slamming Gazidis and Wenger, only to be advocating that we keep doing the same stuff… Read more »

Marc

Dissenter

Wasn’t Wenger guilty of letting experienced high performance players go and not replacing them?

It’s 6 of one.

Dissenter

Marc
It would be ideal if we could get an established name transfer replacement for Auba however he has to be sold regardless because we simply can’t afford to let him leave for free.
The non-available of a transfer replacement shouldn’t be a reason to let him run down his contract.
Wenger didn’t spend the money realized from transfers sales on footballing assets i.e. players. It was not a question of like for like replacement. Remember the summer of 2015 when he bought no outfield players?

Marc

Dissenter

I don’t get your point – you don’t have to get a like for like replacement but you do need to make the team stronger. Improving the CM and having a front line that can’t score enough goals will not improve the team it has to be a balance.

A front line of Saka, Martinelli and Pepe will not score enough goals in it’s first season – how many seasons would you give it to work?

Northbanker

Marc- jeez you’re still on that tired line – you’re looking at everything the wrong way – 3 of the most exciting youngsters in the EPL and yet you have no concept in your brain of their ability to improve and mature further As you are so blinded by what Auba was even though age for him is not on his side

Bojangles

There is one small point being missed here concerning the sale or otherwise of Auba. It may be easier getting better quality players incoming with Auba leading the line than if a couple of kids are doing so.

Northbanker

No it hasn’t; been missed Bo but has been discussed to death. It might be a nice luxury but it is a relatively small concern – we need to sell now before we lose huge amounts of money. The young players can develop just as well without the shadow of Auba and get more game time which will ultimately be more instrumental in their development. We have to look beyond just next season

Marc

Northbanker

No I’m not blinded – you seem however to be unable to read. Sell Auba and Laca but we would need to bring in a replacement striker.

If you’re so confident about the ability of Saka, Martinelli and Pepe please enlighten me with how many PL goals you think the 3 of them would score in total leading the line next season, obviously other players getting goals would not be included.

Bojangles

North, you are missing my point. I’m not talking about the financial benefits or otherwise in selling Auba this summer. I am not talking about the development of the kids. I am saying that with Auba up front we have a better chance of attracting a better quality player than with two kids up front, irrespective of our evaluation of said kids.

Marc

Bojanges

So you’re saying having quality players in the squad will help attract other good players?

Well that’s one of the most stupid ideas I’ve ever heard. Don’t you know every top CM in the world wants to play behind a front 3 who won’t hit 30 PL goals between them.

Bojangles

Marc

I honestly do not see Arteta, or any manager/head coach relying on kids to get us through a pl season. If Auba and Lacazette are sold this summer we will have to find a replacement.

Marc

Bojanges

You, me and every other Arsenal fan who isn’t delusional knows that.

It would be career suicide for Arteta to sign off selling both strikers and not insisting on a replacement. I have no idea who that should be but we would need one.

Valentin

I am sorry but we don’t need a name. We need a good player who fit Mikel Arteta style of football. At ManUtd, Fernandes was not a name, but he was an inspired choice who suddenly rejuvenated their team. Arsenal needs a player who can be that spark. A good midfield general who has a good defensive awareness but also the talent to make quick positive forward passes. That demand for a big name players is exactly the issue with both fans and some executive at clubs. People get blinded by the big name star without realising that the final… Read more »

Marc

Valentin

You see you make a valid point and then make yourself look really stupid all at the same time.

We don’t need a name – agree, just like Fernandes at ManU – he cost £47 million that could increase by £20 million. If a player who’s not a name costs that much just how much does a name cost?

Santan

Bring Yaya Sanogoat back. Aubameyang is a poor mans sanogoat

Sid

You can take this to the bank, Saka, Martinelli, pepe will score more next season than they have this season
If the spend more time on the field than Laca and Auba have done this season, then certainly their goals tota will be more

Im telling you this for free!

Valentin

Marc, You are the one making look stupid by deliberately misconstruing what I wrote. If you reread my statement, I clearly stated that we do not need a name for the sake of it, we need somebody who fit Arteta style of football. The price tag is irrelevant. It could be big, but it could also be a free youth team player. Fernandes was expensive but if you had asked anybody before he joined, he would not have been the first name they came up with. Between Fernandes and Pogba who is the biggest name, but who will most likely… Read more »

R.S.P.C.Arsenal

Cg

Were you genuine .?

Seriously. Cloughs mob were the best 11 I have seen at home… then came united
3-0 down in 30 mins at home in semi … some time a5 the new ground. 2009 ??

R.S.P.C.Arsenal

Ok

Yoot

The way forward

Marc

Valentin “At ManUtd, Fernandes was not a name, but he was an inspired choice who suddenly rejuvenated their team.” Oh we’re going to have another round of “I never said that” followed by “that’s not what I said” even when quotes are shown followed by “yeah but no but yeah but no but”. Player who almost cost £50 million (and could easily cost a lot more) was not a name but he was, no he wasn’t but he was well sort of but no he wasn’t. You are quite simply incapable of saying what you actually mean. I have a… Read more »

China1

It’s not quite as simple as just comparing net goals scored when replacing auba – it depends what the money is spent on For example we might lose 10 goals a season up front net by playing saka, martinelli, pepe without replacing auba – however if the money is spent on a quality DM or b2b, this player might chip in 5 goals from midfield and prevent 5 goals we would’ve conceded if we’d been carrying xhaka Net on goals we’d be equal but with a lower wage bill, no valuable assets at the end of their contract and another… Read more »

China1

Santan, at least be respectful and spell his name correctly.

It’s yaya sanogoals, aka the next Messi/£50m player

Sid

The deadwood never seem to clear around here Xhakalson, ozil, mustafinovs, elneny, Mikhi and soon Laca will be in that list.

China1

Xhaka ozil mustafi mikki laca bye bye to the lot!!! (In my dreams)

Probably 4 will still be here next season stinking the house out)

China1

I still can’t believe xhaka has people who think he shouldn’t be top/second on the to-sell list The height of his contribution during 3 years at arsenal is a handful of games under Arteta where he wasn’t bad. If that’s the barometer we use to determine which players should be kept then all hope is lost You can literally count on one hand how many games he’s dominated in 3 years. Young guen, who is highly inconsistent and may not make the grade, has already contributed more to the cause in terms of a handful of really good performances Xhaka… Read more »

China1

A search online for granit xhaka man of the match (or MOTM) has a couple of records, most of the articles shown are from an international game before he joined us lol

Bojangles

The reality is, whatever is discussed here and whatever the outcome with Auba is, it comes down to what (hopefully) Arteta wants. Arteta has to have the final say on all incoming.

China1

Mario Gotze has confirmed he’s leaving Dortmund on a free this summer and expects to keep his current salary (160k roughly)

I’m not sure if he’s a bit injury prone? But if sales/loans can reduce that from the salary outgoing a he could be a very interesting option.

Would allow us to focus resources on a new DM/b2b imo…

——————Leno
Bellerin—saliba-Luiz—-tierney
———-Torreira-new player
Pepe————Gotze———-Saka
—————-martinelli

Depending on how good the new CM would be, that could be a very interesting and promising starting 11

Sid

Mario Gotze is a midget Ozil, we can get better value for 160k

China1

The more I think about it the more I like the idea Gotze in on a free to take over the n10 role from ozil (even if we can’t shift old big eyes out of the club) would be a really exciting bit of business on a budget. He has a high salary and is a bit injury prone I think, but he would be looking at this as an exciting new challenge to prove himself again, he has more than enough talent and would be a vastly more useful player than ozil these days. He also adds a bit… Read more »

Guns of SF

No Goetze pls

Little fatty boy will get eaten alive in prem

Moray

We are unlikely to win anything of note with an unbalanced team and a prolific striker. And the last few Seasons have proved this true.

We have a Long list of outs but it’s going to be tough shifting them on this year, even in frees. That Elneny contract extension is now lookign like exactly what it was – terrible business.

On top, we should have taken what we were offered last year for players like Mikhi and Xhaka.

Emiratesstroller

In June last year Arsenal made a massive change in our first team squad offloading no fewer than TEN players as well as one loanee. These were IWOBI KOSCIELNY MKHITARYAN JENKINSON MONREAL LICHSTEINER RAMSEY WELBECK ELNENY CECH In addition the club offloaded Ospina to Napoli where he was out on loan. So the question is how many players are likely to be offloaded this summer and what is likely to be the impact of these departures? My personal view is that offloading so many players in one season is unproductive and there is no question that it had a negative… Read more »

Brooklyn

It is like people forgot about 2007-11 project youth ….Youth of 2077-11 were far better than that of today….

And they only had Chelsea, United and Man City for couple of years to contend with…

Brooklyn

Get in Coutinho(loan)/Goetze(free) to compete with Ozil….Ozil will leave(probably) after next season, hopefully ESR will be ready by then…Goetze can play CF as well as Laca too… New contract Auba if possible, (250-300k PW, 2 year deal), otherwise sell him, funds for Partey or other CM of Arteta’s choice…. Sell Laca for fund for either another striker(Edouard/Milik) or mid fielder depending on Auba’s situation….Sell Laca anyhow because buying another quality winger means sure fire way to decrease playing time for Martinelli, Saka, Nelson and ESR….and Laca isn’t good enough CF to lead line on his own….meaning lack of guaranteed goals… Read more »

Brooklyn

Speculation on transfer seems fun… How is outgoing plausible: Sokratis has said he won’t stay if he doesn’t see decent minutes. (2-3 mil??) There are rumblings from Torreira’s agent about him wanting to go back to Italy, just not so bad right now. (25-30mil??) Laca supposedly already has written in his contract that he can leave if we don’t achieve CL this season. (30-45mil??), Plus I want him sold to add to Auba’s wages… Auba will jump at chance to sign for either Barca or Madrid. Maybe will join any CL club. (35-45 mil??) Mkhi(10-15mil), Elneny(5mil) Mavropanos (2-4mil) and even… Read more »

Habesha Gooner

No to Mario Goteze. He has declined drastically these past few years. If he was decent Dortmund wouldn’t let him go fo free. We need a good CAM or an up and coming one Like Buendia. We should go look for an exciting prospect under the radar than Goteze. I wouldn’t mind coutinho though. He is still good. But not at the stupid price Barcelona paid for him. I would actually love it if we could secure him on loan rather than out right buying him. Then we could focus on CM and DM.

Brooklyn

And even accounting for loss this and next season, we will surely have some 30-40 mil for player transfer without any sell.

Brooklyn

Habesha, Goetze joined Dortmund back from Bayern without salary cut i.e. 170-180k pw….They tried to get him to sign new contract for significant cut…he didn’t agree to it….He had 14G+A in just 26 appearance just last season(playing mostly as CF/false 9 though)…he hasn’t developed as hyped but is still a Ramsey(as CM) level of CAM…. So for free, at 27 years of age even counting for his injuries, experience and technical ability along with very good work rate is very good deal. If Auba goes then he can compete with Ozil for No.10 and Laca for similar false-9 role. People… Read more »

Valentin

Brooklyn, Extrapolating this season number, we would have made an operational loss for the last three years. AST reckon that without Champion’s League next season and play behind closed door Arsenal will face a shortage of £144 millions. With Raul having already gambled next season transfer budget last summer, You are seriously deluded if we think we are going to invest significant amount of money this summer. We are going to try to sell any players clubs are ready to pay good money for. If rumours are true, Arsenal are primarily looking at three problem positions: left CB, left back… Read more »

Habesha Gooner

* If we can’t sign someone who would improve us.

Emiratesstroller

I suggested in my earlier post today that I do not think that it serves the best interest of team and squad to make constantly wholesale changes each summer. It is bad for morale and continuity in building a successful team. On the other hand if players are not fit for purpose then of course by necessity you need to make changes. What did become apparent is the football and results produced in first half of season was awful. We were leaking goals like a sieve, our midfield lacked creativity and goalscoring potential and Lacazette was completely off the boil… Read more »

CG

RSPCA “”””Cg Were you genuine .?Seriously. Cloughs mob were the best 11 I have seen at home… then came united””””” I would go along with that in recent times Forest and Man United were the best teams I ve seen play against Arsenal Managed by Cloughie and Fergie off course. 2 managers who never had these absurd coaching badges that supposedly you need to be successful. Klopp is basically just using the same methods as Cloughie and Fergie did before him .E.g Big Goalie – Tick Shilton, Schmeichel ALLSON Big Center Half-Tick Kenny Burns,Pallister , VVD Great Left Winger- Tick… Read more »

Sid

Coutinho, Gotze are deadwood for their respective clubs, for every 30 castaways from clubs theres probably 1 who goes on to be successful especially players past mid twenties.
klopp would be the 1st option to take Gotze if he thought he would be useful.

Im telling you for free!

Terraloon

Much debate on here about how much will be spent etc.

Much denial on here that sales will probably be non existent

Much denial on here just what a mess Arsenals finances are in.

Ok this is just a view but far more informed than my take on matters.

Worth reading particularly the cash position and also the situation with regard to the two major sponsors (Adidas &. Emirates)

https://www.arsenaltrust.org/feed/afc-finances/2020/AST-COVID-affect-Arsenal-financial-position

CG

Big No to Cortinhio.
Big No to Gotze.
But Yes on a pay as you play contract to Lallana.

Two footed ,premier league experience, handsome and was born very close to the current training ground ( allegedly) so should not be late in the mornings.

Proper player, plays with his head up.

Jamie

Come out of the closet, CG.

Valentin

Terraloon, I feel like Don Quixote fighting windmill when I tries to explain to some that Arsenal is in a bad financial situation. Any dream of splashing the cash in a few big names is fanciful in the extreme. We can’t afford to lose Aubameyang for nothing next summer. If PSG is so enclined, exchange him for Draxler and £20 millions. Solve three problems in one full swoop. 1 get decent money for a player over 30 years old. 2 get a proper LW who can share the position with Saka. 3 open a CF place for Martinelli. We need… Read more »

CG

Jamie

“””Come out of the closet, CG.””””
Not quite ready, yet

He is handsome though.
Google images and see for yourself.
Dishy.

Lallana reminds me of a poor mans Robert Pires.
But he will do for us for 18 months- but if he aint on Kia’s list, the Dopes wont ‘ even know who he is.

Graham62

I will be totally honest with you here, based on where we stand, I find all this talk about the ins and outs of players rather sickening. Goetze still expecting to remain on £160k a week. How wonderful ! Other players on massive salaries twiddling their thumbs waiting for this all to blow over and still expecting things to go back to normal. Agents chomping at the bit, ready to get the ball rolling again. It’s a frigging disgrace. If the governing bodies announced next week that, from next season, whenever that is, all player salaries will be capped and… Read more »

Bob N16

Graham, I understand your feelings on the excessive pay the players get and the massive disparity with the vast majority. I find it hard to accept the price of the ST in relation to my available income. How do you feel about anybody, from any profession earning £5m + ? We obviously live in a ‘market forces’ driven economy. The enormous TV/Commercial/Match day revenues enable clubs to pay fantastic salaries for the top players. Footballers are not really that different from the bankers/bond dealers etc who are paid similar enormous amounts. If they pay loads in taxes they are contributing… Read more »

Northbanker

Bob agreed
With tax planning becoming increasingly more difficult if not impossible the true underlying tax rate applies to these salaries so that means almost half of what these players earn goes to the Treasury

Northbanker

The Coutinho story seems to still be running- this is surely only a loan deal at best? It could be a good stop gap for us for next year as a CAM and give us more time to assess the readiness of EST in that role

Unless there’s some dose of reality in the wages I can’t see how it can happen though

Maybe a combo of wages cut and subsidy from Real might swing it

Northbanker

Or perhaps we could swap him with Ozil!!

Marc

“How do you feel about anybody, from any profession earning £5m”

No one bats an eyelid if the Rolling Stones (insert whichever huge band etc) do a world tour and earn tens of millions, no one complains when a recording artist signs a muti million deal to record 5 albums.

There’s a reverse snobbery around football because it’s seen as a “working mans” sport.

Personally I don’t have a problem with Messi earning a staggering amount my issue is with piss poor players earning a £100k per week – and we’re back to Xhaka!

Northbanker

Sorry meant Barca not Real!

Bojangles

You live in a corporate world Un, learn to live with it.

Northbanker

We have short memories and the world will largely revert to what it was pre Covid, recession permitting and subject to new tech

We have since the dawn of time and through every previous pestilence and plague

andy1886

Northbanker, do you seriously believe that footballers, unlike every other wealthy individual, do not employ tax lawyers and financial advisers to help them avoid paying as much tax as possible? If you can find me a single player who pays 100% of his tax without a quibble I’d be amazed.

Terraloon

Pie in the Sky

Kai Havertz anyone?

Only going to cost €100 million .

andy1886

Marc, it’s the greed that people don’t like. Seriously, why does anyone need to earn that sort of money? In a world of finite resources for every millionaire there have to be people so poor that they need to use food banks and live in hostels. If everyone had a reasonable basic standard of living them maybe it’s not such an issue and you can put it down to envy.

Why is MO on £350k/week? Because he and his agent demanded it. I’m sure he knows that he’s not worth it but he asked for it anyway. Greedy tw*t.

andy1886

Fingers crossed that the Coutinho thing is a non-starter. Don’t rate him at all, another light weight drain on the budget if we sign him.

Terraloon

Andy It is said that Kante refused to take any payment by way of image rights in sisal his income go through PAYE Rarely are individuals happy with how much tax they pay but some players put vast sums back into the community they were born in . Quite often when players are given Testimonials they donate every thing generated to a charity. The irony is that the players and indeed managers of yesteryear took a far bigger % via brown envelopes or the like. Boot money was rampant and signing on fees often were not paid through clubs accounts.… Read more »

andy1886

Un, maybe not, but I can guarantee that I’d give the majority of it to causes I believe in. Nobody needs that much money.

Terraloon

Andy My step daughter earns minimum wage. She owns her own flat for which she pays a mortgage, she owns a car and has decent savings. She doesn’t go on holiday, she refuses to buy a sandwich or a coffee . She thinks anyone earning over £20k Is overpaid. I thinks she is barking as does her sister who earns circa £30k and her partner nearly double that. They are saddled with debt, rent a house, never have two half pennies to wipe their a**se with yet spend vast sums on coffee, sandwiches, clothes and basically moan how unfair life… Read more »

andy1886

Terraloon, I’m sure that there are some good people in football, some less so. Charitable donations are of course tax advantageous and the original point was about how nearly half of players’ wages go to the treasury which is something I doubt.

andy1886

Terraloon, so how did she buy a property? It would be literally impossible on minimum wage. No bank would lend based on that level of income without a huge deposit which again would take decades to accumulate on minimum wage.

Bob N16

Marc, I’m with you on the salaries; AFC has been appalling with their misuse of the payroll. The vast majority of the players who are on £100,000+ a week would not be receiving their current salaries anywhere else(Bosman’s aside). My other issues are with the season ticket price. I would love AFC to be known as a club that really looks after its supporters and doesn’t try and extract as much as they can. I know that’s idealistic and the boat has probably sailed but look at Germany’s pricing (I appreciate the supporters own 51%). The agents should always be… Read more »

Jamie

“She doesn’t go on holiday, she refuses to buy a sandwich or a coffee.”

No disrespect, but this sounds grim. Rather than being satisfied with earning £10 an hour or whatever it is for the rest of her working life, maybe she should ask for a promotion.

Marc

Bob

“My other issues are with the season ticket price. I would love AFC to be known as a club that really looks after its supporters and doesn’t try and extract as much as they can.”

Look I wouldn’t complain if my ST was cheaper but the cost of a ST at Arsenal is very similar to the Spud’s – there is one major difference. We get 26 matches they get 19 so Arsenal are by no means the worst club out there.

andy1886

Apologies Terra, didn’t read your post correctly first time around. It’s great that you were able to support her, but there are many that don’t have parents able or sometimes willing, to help their kids onto the property ladder. Without your help even living frugally she’d be stuck in the rent trap.

CG

W “””Players need to be represented but it’s hard not to see agents as glorified leeches.”””” All the players need is a good solicitor.( Or parental guidance) Why can’t they think for themselves anyway. Are they that dim? We sent kids to war at 16. They are brainwashed into thinking that they need one. ( like the fans) Paul Scholes and our Wenger never had one. they seem to have coped. FA should aim to have them out of the game entirely by 2023. And all they have to do is implement this simple ruling. If a club pays an… Read more »

Terraloon

Andy. Far from difficult. She added the money we gave her to money she had saved. She didn’t go to Uni even though it was on offer.She had a weekend job while at school and from age 18 through to age 23 yes she lived with us and paid keep of around 1/4 of her take home she saved around £3 k on average a year she had what she called her pocket money of around £60 per week. She now takes home just under £300 per week . Her outgoings are about £750 pcm. She lives far too frugal… Read more »

andy1886

Un, I already do give to causes even though I’m not a big earner. Can’t say that I’d give it to Stan though which is effectively what you’d be doing. We’d still manage to screw it up anyway (they would probably give Ozil a pay rise lol).

Bob N16

CG = cretin

Terraloon

Jamie I personally love having a coffee or a sandwich out but not really that critical in the scheme of things . As for holidays again I look forward to ours but she really isn’t that worried about going away. We live in a beautiful county with miles of green countryside and miles of beeches. As I said earlier too frugal for me but she is content with her life . Now if we were talk about the nights in the winter when she sits with a throw around her to save putting the heating ok then yep I think… Read more »

Bob N16

Good post Graham