Top 5 a little harder after today

by .

Ok, so results didn’t go for us on Sunday. We’re very much up against it as far as the race for top 4 goes, but as we’ve seen in the past, form means little when everyone is shit, but one thing is for sure, results are going to matter.

Chelsea routed Everton. It was embarrassing how bad Carlo’s boys were. Tactically inept, slow, and lacking energy. Quite the opposite of the side that came to play us after 2 weeks rest (and lost, lol).

United beat City fairly comfortably. They sat back, happily let Pep’s team ping the ball around, then caught the fast lads on the counter. It was a horrible day for Ederson, he was beaten at the near post with a fairly soft yet spectacular Martial volley, then he blew the game late on with a terrible bit of distribution. At the highest level, you’ll be punished for being a doughnut, Ederson was that, triple glazed today.

So where does that leave us? In a bit of a tough spot. We either need to put a fallen giant to the sword, or take an over the knee spanking to breath life into a miserable Pep G season. Traditionally, we’ve been a gift for managers that are struggling, so I don’t hold out a lot of hope. The most we can hope for is that we give them a tough game… but if all City have to play for is the Champions League, there’s the potential their minds will be on the European game the week after. That insight is more hope than reality.

Still, what we can deduce from United’s two wins against them this season is that they don’t have a very good backline at the moment. Their keeper has lost his sparkle and their defensive structure does not deal well with pace. We have that in bundles if we want to play the counter-attacking game. Auba, Gabriel, Nelson, Saka and Pepe can all cause problems in a counter-attacking system. The concern is whether we have the defensive confidence to sit back and let City happen to us.

Still, we’ve dealt with United, we had good games against Chelsea, even with 10 men, and you can count on Arteta and his staff really going hard at this one. It’s a game with low expectations from the fans, but one they’ll want to use to prove to the country they were the right people to put in place at a massive club that wants to go back to the top.

Anyway, brief thoughts today. See you in the comments. x

295 Responses to “Top 5 a little harder after today”

Jump to comment form ↓

  1. Leftside

    “You and CG support Wenger, not Arsenal Football Club”

    Pierre is a catty and knows how to reel posters in with for a quarrel but he definitely supports Arsenal. When not doing that he adds value.

    CG on the other hand criticises Arsenal and then talks about how bad the fans are. CG talks up every other side whilst wishing the worst for “his” club. I know who is a fan and who isn’t out of them two.

  2. TR7

    I am sucker for good midfield players, that’s why I sometimes harp back to those days when we had quality midfielders.

  3. Ishola70

    Marc

    We need some new bodies.

    To think Arsenal are going places with those current midfield options is just pissing in the wind regardless of Arteta and his potential sauce.

  4. Marc

    TR7

    Yeah but I’d hope you’re looking forward to us bringing in new talent not talking about old players who were finished.

  5. TR7

    Marc

    ‘ but I’d hope you’re looking forward to us bringing in new talent not talking about old players who were finished.’

    I don’t know. Most midfielders in modern era are too mechanical for my liking. It’s all about physicality, engine, pressing and tackling these days. Very few artistic players these days.

  6. CG

    Utarse.

    “””You and CG support Wenger, not Arsenal Football Club.”””

    Wenger made modern Arsenal. Made them bigger than they actually are.

    And Revolutionized the English game too.

    I notice the new TV deal for the first time in 2 decades has decreased- no coincidence now the Great Man has departed.

    Now that he is gone….

    Let’s see how we fare without his class,experience, wisdom , public relations excellence and big game nous.

    I think Saturdays shocker will be the new norm.

    (But that’s the progression fans yearned for.)

  7. Champagne Charlie

    Ernest
    I chose my words carefully, what you said was lazy and ignorant. It’s based on stereotype about the PL being ‘tough’, and not on any medical expertise or sports science unless you happened to leave that bit out?

    Marc
    “If you’re just having a pop at me for suggesting that a player who’s had such a severe injury couldn’t hack in the PL anymore then you’re just being childish.”

    Curious why you believe yourself equipped to make that judgement.

  8. Samesong

    Let’s see how we fare without his class,experience, wisdom , public relations excellence and big game nous.

    All good things come to an end CG. Cry me a river.

  9. Alex James

    Club.”””Wenger made modern Arsenal. Made them bigger than they actually are.

    Astonished by this! Yes, we were in the doldrums after GG but our overall history was as good as anyone’s, stand fast Liverpool. If there had been a CL in the 30s, we would have pushed everyone to the wire.

  10. Marc

    CC

    When a medical expert says “you’re lucky not to have lost your foot and we don’t think you’ll be able to walk again normally” it’s not a big stretch to think that person might struggle to cope with the fastest and one of the most physical leagues in Europe.

    You are aware of the injury he had aren’t you?

  11. UTarse

    CG, wenger’s gone, history.

    Arsenal’s history is longer and greater than the Wengers. Get over it.

    You just keep supporting your “great man” I’ll support the great Arsenal FC.

  12. Champagne Charlie

    Marc

    Yea quite aware. So do explain how he’s managed 2600 minutes in La Liga last season and 1800 so far this season?

  13. Marc

    CC

    He was incredibly lucky and you seem to be confused by who made the decision to let him go – I just agree with it.

    I also assume you don’t think it as an Achilles injury.

  14. Ernest Reed

    Not based on a stereotype, Charlie. Its based on the fact that Cazorla was essentially barely able to walk, let alone play when his contract concluded. For a guy who kept getting injured playing with Arsenal, why would anyone believe he could still continue and to what capacity? Sorry, but others may be willing to take a flyer on him, but I wouldn’t. And which EPL club took a flyer on him?

    Sorry, but based on his history i fail to see where anyone would be willing to take a chance and certainly no one in a league known to be tough in its style of play.

  15. Ernest Reed

    “do explain how he’s managed 2600 minutes in La Liga last season and 1800 so far this season?”

    I cant, other than is Spain they have a lot of respect for Cazorla and from what i have watched, the do tend to back away from him where in the EPL i think they would not think twice about going after him. Two different leagues and my own opinion is that I sincerely hope that Cazorla stays where he is.

  16. Pierre

    Ernest Reed
    “I cant, other than is Spain they have a lot of respect for Cazorla and from what i have watched, the do tend to back away from him where in the EPL i think they would not think twice about going after him. Two different leagues and my own opinion is that I sincerely hope that Cazorla stays where he is.”

    Now let me see…you think the opposition teams back off Cazorla and let him play his game without being tackled due to the high level of respect they have for him.

    The question I need to ask you is

    ARE YOU STUPID

    These are professional footballers who are paid to win a game of football.
    What would their supporters think if they saw their own players allow Cazorla the freedom of the pitch.

    You have little or no understanding of the game Ernest , but that doesn’t surprise me.

  17. UTarse

    “do explain how he’s managed 2600 minutes in La Liga last season and 1800 so far this season?”

    Your crystal ball is obviously better than all of ours.

  18. Guns of SF

    Hoping that Torreira ankle heals properly.
    Kid is always overmatched in challenges…
    I hope its not a Diaby or Cazorla part 2

    Ankle fractures are a bad one.. seems no one comes back the same

  19. CG

    Walt

    “”””Fuck me I always thought CG was deluded but he’s now claiming that the size of the PL deal was directly down to Wenger.””””

    No delusion- just cold hards facts.

    The Fergie v Wenger head to heads were instrumental in the huge hikes in TV revenue. They were worldwide and Box office.

    Ollie and MA dont really capture the imagination.
    (A bit of a damp squib in comparison)

    Likewise the emergence of all these oligarchs and foreign states ( Man City) now involved in the English game- all wanted a part of Wenger and Wengers Arsenal in particular.

    Well there is no Fergie and now no Wenger.
    No surprise to me the TV deals are now declining and will continue to do so.

    Wenger not only made Modern Arsenal but to all to all extent and purposes made the Prem the commercial monster it became.

    As the years drift on by.
    It wont be just AFC who miss Our Wenger – the whole of English soccer will to.

  20. Ernest Reed

    You obviously watch little to none of the Spanish Leagues, do you? They do back off on Cazorla and equally the style of play there is conducive to quick speed and good footwork, whereas the EPL is slower and more physical.

    You have little or no understanding of life Pierre, but that doesn’t surprise me given your advanced state of mental deterioration . Of you this much is true, You love Wenger and I seriously doubt that you love Arsenal as much. This much is undeniable, you are a ridiculous old goat.

  21. Ernest Reed

    “Are you saying that the club were right to allow all of our central creative players to leave (most of them for nothing) and not replace them at all?”

    Never said any of this, Un. Perhaps if you stop putting words in people’s mouths that they never expressed, that might garner better conversation.

  22. Ernest Reed

    My opinion stands Un, Cazorla is treated differently in the Spanish League than he would be in the EPL. The styles of play are very different.

  23. Pedro

    Premier League is far more demanding than La Liga. Outside a few games, it’s a very poor level because of how they distro money.

    I’m pretty sure I was told Santi went to his own surgeon on his foot and totally fucked it. No way Arsenal should have dished out a new deal to another crock.

    Though we should have found a young replacement.

  24. UTarse

    “Wenger not only made Modern Arsenal but to all to all extent and purposes made the Prem the commercial monster it became.”

    This is HILARIOUS ! nothing to do with Sky money then ?

  25. Pierre

    Ernest
    Imagine the scenario that you paint.

    Cazorla playing against Barcelona , the ball is in midfield and there is a possible 50/50 challenge between Arturo Vidal and Cazorla, and Vidal out of respect for Cazorla backs off and allows cazorla to have the ball.

  26. Pierre

    A more sensible comment would be to say that the referees in Spain offer more protection to skilful players.

  27. Ernest Reed

    Un, Im saying that i would not have re-signed any of the perma-crocked players based on their known injury histories. Knowing this, what honestly would you think you’d get for any of them? Little to nothing, the risk-reward evaluation tells you its not worth it. Re-signing them? Again, risk-reward says no.

    The factual problem is that Arsenal have had chronic issues at midfield for a long time and continually fail to address them. Some of you are actually saying we should have stuck with the injured and offered up new contracts to them for what, so that they could stay on the table longer (ala Diaby). And some of you call me stupid?

  28. Ernest Reed

    You are as hopeless as you are foolish, Pierre. The sad part is for someone your age, you truly ought to know better. Regardless, you are your own problem.

  29. Freddie Ljungberg

    Pedro

    The Bellerin bit was from Ornstein

    He’s playing with a groin tear and on pain killers.

    Hope he gets over that soon and gets back to previous levels physically whether we keep him or moves him on.

  30. Valentin

    When we let Cazorla go, he was over his injury. Arsenal could have kept him by offering a pay per play offer, but we deemed a risk not worth it.
    Same with Jack that Emery did not fancy and so we let go.
    It was a manager and Director of Football Operations choice. With hindsight, we can say that letting Cazorla go was a mistake. Wilshere played more than Suarez, but nobody expected Suarez to be injured so quickly, so letting Wilshere was not necessarily the wrong choice at the time.
    However letting The Jeff leaves was a stupid move especially at that price. Within 12 months he was sold for £20 millions. And now that before his injury at Lyon he was on the cusp of call to the French Squad, once he has recovered he is likely to fetch about 35~45 millions.

  31. Champagne Charlie

    Really baffles me how so many can brazenly dismiss reality with Cazorla. He’s been a gem since returning to Spain, so chat about him ‘not being able to handle the prem’ is absolute bollocks.

    Jack hasn’t been fit since leaving, Rambo has played 900 mins for Juve, both serve as evidence that Arsenal had a cause for not renewing the players with fitness concerns as a factor.

    When Cazorla drops 30 games in La Liga the season after leaving you can sit and say ‘oh we fucked up’ or you can spontaneously forge a Donald Trump level degree in medicine and talk bullshit about him not being able to handle the league.

    It was a shit call on our part, end of story. One we then doubled down on by not replacing him.

  32. Pierre

    Ernest
    “You are as hopeless as you are foolish, Pierre”

    I say spanish referees give the skilful players more protection.

    You say the Spanish players back off skilful players like cazorla out of respect for them.

  33. Spanishdave

    Where is Cedric ?
    Loaning crocks seem to be our thing.
    Tierney and Cedric our phantom full backs.

  34. Pierre

    Fred
    “He’s playing with a groin tear and on pain killers.”

    How will a groin tear ever mend if not rested.
    I’ve always believed that rest is the only cure for a groin injury and playing on it will only exacerbate the injury.

  35. Ernest Reed

    “Cazorla could change games form the bench for us. Can you not see that?”

    Dont need a player of Cazorla’s calibre coming off the bench Un, need him to start and stay healthy. Why is this so difficult to apparently grasp? We have a bench full of crocked players, enough to field a full 11 – dont need another.

  36. Ernest Reed

    “It was a shit call on our part, end of story. One we then doubled down on by not replacing him.”

    There was no tangible evidence nor guarantee that Cazorla could even make it back, Charlie. Hindsight is what it is and the risk-reward came into play – something that Arsenal historically have not done particularly well.

    I do agree completely that we have never even come close to replacing him.

  37. Ernest Reed

    ““He’s playing with a groin tear and on pain killers.”

    If true then this represents negligence to allow him to continue. Bellerin benefits no one currently as its obvious he’s nowhere near being fit.

  38. Jamie

    Un,

    The Sun and The Metro? Come on.. £12m is ridiculous, and the 2nd highest loan fee in history behind Mbappe I think. James to Bayern was 13m euros over 2 years. Lo Celso would’ve been an expensive loan had Spurs not taken up the option to buy, which they did.

  39. Champagne Charlie

    “There was no tangible evidence nor guarantee that Cazorla could even make it back, Charlie. Hindsight is what it is and the risk-reward came into play – something that Arsenal historically have not done particularly well.“

    That’s utterly conflicting. The tangible evidence that he could come back is his playing time at Villarreal since. The tangible evidence immediately post-surgery wouldve been seen in his muscular performance protocols.

    He COULD play football again, that was the decision at the time. We decided he wasn’t worth a contract because there were doubts about his ability to last – this is where we made the wrong decision as you allude to.

    It was the wrong call, and I say it’s a bad one because not only did he later perform and prove doubts incorrect; but we spent money midseason on a technical attacker because it was deemed missing from the squad. Just poor management of the situation entirely, bad diagnosis and inept planning.

    It becomes contentious because we missed big by inches last term.

  40. Habesha Gooner

    Lineup against City.
    Leno, Niles, Mustafi, Luiz,Saka, Guendouzi, Xhaka, Ceballos, Martinelli,Aubameyang, Pepe.
    Arteta is probably going to go with
    Leno,Sokratis,Luiz, Mari, Saka, Ceballos, Xhaka, Ozil, Aubameyang, pepe,Lacazette

    I just feel It would be better If we went there to strictly counterattack. No ozil. Mustafi is also needed I think. Mari and Luiz don’t look like a good pairing. They are too similar. we need one sweeper and one on the front foot defender. We need better defensive contributions. And We need to get at city’s fragile defense.

  41. Ernest Reed

    All hindsight Charlie. Cazorla was going to be a gamble no matter what. Had he not come back as he has then many would be saying prudent move not signing him.

    “We decided he wasn’t worth a contract because there were doubts about his ability to last”

    And this remains essentially true and equally i am in agreement with it. The risk evaluation on Cazorla, right or wrong, was the correct decision at the time. Considering Arsenal’s history of spending money on otherwise oft injured players, long term was not sustainable. Cazorla ticked off pretty much every box on the list as to why you don’t sign him, based on probability of return to some sense of normal. Are you going to tell me that you would have taken the flyer on him, knowing the severity of his most recent injury?

  42. Ernest Reed

    We will be at odds on Cazorla, Charlie. I understand each of your arguments and can very much see where you are coming from, but from the perspective of a club that no longer appears to have an abundance of financial heft, you have to pick your investments on what you believe to be best return on investment.

    To that end, Cazorla had a question mark on his fitness. Was it the right call? At the time it certainly was and remains so today, after all they could have theoretically trying signing him again this past offseason or even enquired of a loan this winter?

    As was with Wilshere and Ramsey, the right move on each but a huge fail on not recouping something for them when the opportunity presented itself. Which makes Arsenal’s stance on Mikki even more perplexing?

  43. Habesha Gooner

    Marc
    Arteta has said both Cedric and Mustafi are ready to play. This is what I read

    Journo:-Are Cedric Soares and Shkodran Mustafi in the frame?

    Arteta:-I think they will be available to play. Hopefully everyone will be able to train tomorrow and we’ll pick the best players we can.

  44. Ernest Reed

    Suarez was an Arsenal Emery move all the way and a beyond dumb one at that. Ceballos at his current cost can be a serviceable player but not one that I would take up on his option to buy. Cazorla remains, in my opinion, an enigmatic anomaly. I somehow truly doubt he’d be playing for us today.

  45. Ernest Reed

    Agreed Marc, Cazorla himself said he wanted to finish out his career at home. His team felt he was worth the gamble and have been rewarded.

  46. CG

    E.R

    ““He’s playing with a groin tear and on pain killers.”

    And I thought post Wenger – we were going all cutting edge.

    (Wenger was an alleged dinosaur in these medical matters.)

    If this is the case- its a shocking indictment of the current affairs at the club (including MA management in selecting the injured player)

    How can you in this day and age you play a player who has groin tear and load him up with painkillers?

    Do they want to do serious harm to Hector long term?

  47. CG

    UN

    I concur with your Santi comments.

    What with the Spanish Mafia at the club at the time – keeping Santi would and should have been paramount.

    Even if he gave us 10-15 games a season- it would undoubtedly been worth it.

    Remember Big Per only gave us 1 game a season once.

    But what a game and what a performance in the May Wembley sunshine.

    It resulted in Arsenals penultimate piece of silverware too. ( those were the days, eh?)

  48. Marc

    TR7

    Not surprised by that – I really expected to hear an announcement today that PL matches were to be played behind closed doors.

  49. Pierre

    Let’s be honest here , whether cazorla, wilshere, ramsey , Mhkitaryan or Ozil were injured or not , Emery made it perfectly clear that he didn’t want them in his team.

    He marginalised Ozil and Ramsey and then sent Mhkitaryan out on loan , which tells you all you need to know, and he would have no done similar to Cazorla and wilshere injured or not.

    And as Valentin rightly pointed out , Emery also discarded adelaide.

    It will take a while to repair the damage caused by Emery

  50. Receding Hairline

    How many of you on here moaned Mkhi leaving on loan? Hindsight is a beautiful thing eh

    The club spunks 72m on a players who isn’t worth that, Roma seize on that to make a late minute loan move for a player the coach clearly wanted to keep and said player forces a move because it simply hasn’t been happening for him in England. Let’s talk about Mkhi and Ramsey like you all rated them when they were here.

    Guess today is revisionist day.

    Deserves a warrant for his arrest for what exactly Pedro? You kept telling every one he wanted Nzonzi and Banega, are they both at Arsenal now?

    After the summer all of you went on and on about a Raul masterclass, reality has dawned now and of course its all on Emery, the man most of you celebrated his having minimal input on transfers.

    Emery met Arsenal a europa league team outside the top four and left us as such after competing for the top four and Europa league.

    None of you had the decency to ask why we are out of Europe against Olympiakos, talking about “the damage emery has done” seems to be your own brand of denial.

    Jack Wilshere and Adelaide’ indeed

  51. Ernest Reed

    I dont think that Emery is really any different than most managers who ultimately want players that suit their vision for their team. Is this any different than Klopp, who ridded himself of quite a few marginals. Same applies to Pep or any other manager from a Top 6 view of things.

    At the time Emery did what many of us had wanted for some time, to rid the team of underperformers that languished at Club Weng.

    The fact that Emery was a total and complete fuckup should not take away from the fact that his intentions were never concealed – he wanted his team to play his way and if you didn’t, then he had no use for you.

    Im not defending Emery, but he’s honestly no different than 95% of managers in the exact same position. He wanted to rid Arsenal of the Country Club attitude. Only those who have their hearts attached to some of those he targeted could honestly take umbrage…and those who have a serious hate for the man, well it is what it is.

  52. Ishola70

    That so many midfield options have disappeared since five to six years ago compared to now is not all on Emery.

    The club has been failing over these years to get in good replacements or no replacements at all for the ones that left.

    If players of certain calibre were brought in sooner then they would have been waiting in the wings to take over when the likes of Ramsey and Cazorla left to name but a few. So many others.

    It didn’t happen.

    Arsenal management sat and saw these players disappear over time and didn’t have the gumption to build at the right time to replace within.

    By the time Wenger was in his last period it was a squad ready to break up with no real good alternatives within the squad to replace.

  53. Jamie

    Totally should’ve kept Wilshere on £80k a week. Managed 564 minutes of PL football for West Ham over the last 18 months. Stonks.

    Totally should’ve kept Jeff RA. 6 Ligue 1 goals and now out for 9 months with an ACL. Obviously down to Emery’s training methods. Lyon currently in 7th. Huge loss for us.

    Totally should’ve bent over and accepted Ramsey’s £400k a week wage demands. 798 Serie A minutes played for Juve and 3 goals. So worth.

    Totally should’ve swapped Alexis with Mkhi. Faring slightly better than Ramsey with 811 Serie A minutes at Roma, 6 goals. Roma smashing it in 5th. His input definitely worth £200k a week.

    Doctors tell Santi he might not walk again, but let’s keep paying him £5m a year in case he defies all the odds and regains fitness. We weren’t burned by Eduardo, Diaby, Wilshere, Rosicky, Ox, Theo, Gibbs. Huge mistake, we haven’t flushed literally tens of millions of pounds down the shitter on permacrocks over the years.

    No wonder we’re in a fucking mess. The Wenger worshippers think we should’ve kept repeating the same mistakes ad infinitum on the off-chance Santi would recover. So dumb.

    Then it’s “where’s all the money gone?” Real head-scratcher.

  54. Ernest Reed

    “It will take a while to repair the damage caused by Emery”

    Yeah and it will take a lifetime to rid the club of the stench left behind by Wenger, you putz Pierre. Only you could come up with something so ridiculous in its inception without ever laying fault where it all began, with your messiah. FFS

  55. Ishola70

    While that list earlier from five years ago showed far more options for midfield as others pointed out it also showed far too many ageing players and crocks.

    This is called sitting on players and not refreshing the squad enough.

    The fall out from that is that you get old the oldies leaving around the same time and there are no replacements to hand inhouse to take over.

    And who was responsible for that? Sitting on players for too long.

  56. Pierre

    Ern
    “At the time Emery did what many of us had wanted for some time, to rid the team of underperformers that languished at Club Weng.”

    And the ” many of you” have ultimately been proved wrong.

  57. Ernest Reed

    “Only Ozil was left by the time he got the bullet and he was ruined by the Emery experience.”

    BS Un, Ozil was ruined by Ozil. The revisionists are out in force today.

  58. R.S.P.C.Arsenal

    Look
    Talking about yesteryear is only going to frazzel your brain.

    We are where we are because of poor choices.

    So for now it’s all about the future with art.
    In a short space we have seen improvement so fuck all the past managers failings They don’t mean jack… As the Reynold girls woul say.

  59. Receding Hairline

    Don keeps going on and on about midfielders who could change games yet when pressed comes up with Wilshere and Cazorla, two players who offered close to nothing their last two years. Now Adelaide has made it onto the list.. Lol.

    The love for Mhki here the past few days has been amusing as well, how many games has he missed through injury this year?

    We have one of those game changers in Ozil, Changing it up with two assists all season.

  60. Ernest Reed

    Pierre, take up that offer for a frontal lobotomy already. That 50cc brain of yours is making too much noise.

  61. Freddie Ljungberg

    Wilshere, Ramsey, Santi, Mikhi and Ozil on a combined wage of nearly 1 million a week can maybe be put together into 1 Frankensteins monster footballer that can stay fit for a whole season and not hide on the pitch but I don’t think we have the science for that yet.

    It was the right decision to let all of them go, should have sold Ramsey a year before though but that’s on the undynamic duo.

    The mistake was not replacing them but that’s what happens when a squad has been neglected for so long and crocks have been stacked up to the rafters, you get very little money for them so replacing is hard, and there’s too many positions to fill to fix everything at once.

    Then of course there’s the weight around the clubs neck, the 350k a week cement boots, the face on Pierre’s “special sock”. That’s not exactly helping matters either.

  62. Jamie

    Un

    Ramsey should never have been allowed to enter the final year of his contract. Frankly, none of them should. That falls squarely on Wenger, and no amount of fancy footwork changes that.

    Iwobi went for £35m like Ceballos cost us a £12m loan fee.

  63. Marc

    Receding

    Definitely a massive case of “glory years” on here today. Remembering the good old days when those players were never injured and dominated football.

  64. Ernest Reed

    Un, no one knows what really went on with Ramsey. things happen behind the scenes all the time. He fell out of favour for a reason, just as others have at one time or another.

  65. Marc

    Jamie

    They should never have been allowed to go beyond 2 years left on their contracts which was way before Sanllehi or Emery were anywhere near the club.

  66. Jamie

    Un,

    “So the club were right to give away 5 attacking midfielders and not replace them? Is that what you’re arguing here?”

    I haven’t come close to making this argument. You’ve tried to attribute that fallacy to more than one person today.

  67. Ishola70

    Wenger didn’t do enough inhouse spring cleaning with the squad.

    Sat on players for years.

    Then you get the consequences from that at a later stage.

  68. Marc

    Freddie

    It’d be like a fucked up version of the Wizard of Oz.

    I want ankles.

    I want hamstrings.

    I want a £400k a week contract in Italy – doh!

  69. CG

    Walt

    “””They should never have been allowed to go beyond 2 years left on their contracts which was way before Sanllehi or Emery were anywhere near the club”””

    What like PEA?

    I guess thats Wengers fault too.

  70. Ernest Reed

    “Then of course there’s the weight around the clubs neck, the 350k a week cement boots, the face on Pierre’s “special sock”. That’s not exactly helping matters either.”

    Priceless Freddie!

  71. Jamie

    Un –

    Then why didn’t Wenger extend Ramsey and Santi’s contract a year prior to his dismissal?

    It is obvious to all the Le-Grove doctors that Santi would fully recover from his minor injury. Why only a 1 year extension, why not 3? He would’ve signed as sure as I have a hole in my ass for 3 more years of £80k a week. Wilshere same shit.

    Ramsey 26 months ago re-signs for £160k a week no questions asked until the Ozil extension debacle happened.

    My sources tell me all the players had completely lost faith in Wenger.

  72. Marc

    Un

    Why do you keep using the “so it was right to let x number of players leave without replacing them” argument?

    No one thinks not replacing players was a good idea but that doesn’t mean keeping a bunch of injury prone players was the right thing either.

  73. Freddie Ljungberg

    Don

    “RamseyPlayed 40 games with 6 goals and 8 assists last season”

    Wait, I thought Ramsey was benched after 2 games? Now I’m confused, it wouldn’t be like you to rewrite history would it?

    Only time he was benched was leading up to and during the January window because we were trying to sell him (allegedly) to Juve a couple of months early and get something for him and we didn’t want him to break down. Which he predictably did not that long after.

    Crock, good riddance.

  74. Marc

    Jamie

    “It is obvious to all the Le-Grove doctors that Santi would fully recover from his minor injury”

    Sorry was that a serious comment? If yes what injury so you think Cazorla had?

  75. Jamie

    Marc –

    I was being facetious. Guy almost lost his foot, but because he’s an anomaly, we should keep taking expensive punts on broken players.

    Peak Wenger/Kallstrom logic.

  76. Receding Hairline

    Why is Suarez in this conversation, you aren’t even moaning the lack of midfield options, you are arguing a player who missed two years of football should have had his contract renewed, this at a club that carried Diaby and Rosicky for how long?

    In case you haven’t noticed Jack Wilshere hasn’t played a game in ages.

    You keep name dropping Ceballos like he is some crap player, nonsense.

    You are simply longing for the good old days when we beat up crap teams at the Emirates and folded like a lounge chair whenever the stakes are high. That’s the Arsenal most wanted to move on from and little by little we will. The man who most of you don’t want mentioned when our current situation is discussed has not been offered a coaching job anywhere else despite spending every interview talking about how he misses coaching.

    Wenger was a great coach then became not so great, then became ordinary and we let him and the incompetent Ivan run this club into the ground. Now some are demanding a quick fix while others long for the “good old days” of beating up teams at the Emirates and never being in the conversation for the big prizes

  77. Freddie Ljungberg

    https://www.transfermarkt.com/aaron-ramsey/leistungsdaten/spieler/50057/saison/2018/plus/1#GB1

    That’s Ramseys detailed stats for his last season and which games he played and how many minutes.

    He was sidelined for 3 games in late December when we still had hope of selling him. Other than that he was handled like a crock should be handled, he still played almost every PL game he was available in but was either subbed off or on in many of them. He still managed to break down as per usual.

    There was no benching after 2 games. In october and November he was mostly used as a sub though, don’t know if that was because he’s a crock, or politics behind the scenes regarding his contract or Emery just not liking him going walkabout when played in CM?

    Doesn’t really matter at this stage anyway.

  78. Bob N16

    Hearing that Bellerin is carrying an injury almost feels like good news to me. I was wondering if his loss of speed coming back from an ACL was permanent but now I’m hoping now that he might be able to return to somewhere close to his previous pace.

    Much as I loved Cazorla as a player, it was hard to justify giving him a new contract with his injury record. Really glad he’s playing again but hindsight is a wonderful thing.

  79. Marc

    Uhn

    No you’re not speaking Korean but you are avoiding the truth. Of course those players should’ve been sold but it was Wenger’s fault they weren’t.

    Say the words “It’s all Wenger’s fault” 10,000 times and you’ll feel much better.

  80. Jamie

    The best was waiting for Diaby to come good and throwing £25m at him in the process.

    Released on a free, made like 5 appearances for OM before he retired from football.

    Wenger School of Education Financial Footballing Pro Management Why You Look At Me 10,000 Substitutions

  81. CG

    Walt

    “””””No just shit circumstances that Wenger’s ineptitude put us in.””””

    If Arsene Wenger spent £ 30 000 000 on left back from Scotland with Tierneys injury past and he then broke down injured playing for AFC – most on here would be raging and spitting feathers.

    Yet The Spiv does it – hardly no one bats an eyelid. They say he is one for the future.

    Real ineptitude is – when you as a fan never knew you had it so good.

    I did. I loved The Wenger Years
    All of them- good and bad.

    66 games since He has gone and over quarter of a billion spent on players since he departed- going great aint it……?

    Last time I looked, we were 9th,

    Wenger never had us 9th.
    Never.

  82. Freddie Ljungberg

    Don

    He played 80-90 minutes in the next 4 games after the 2 where you said he was benched. Looool

    I didn’t say he was a nailed on starter every game, read my post again. He’s a permacrock, running down his contract, why would we play him the full 90 every game?

  83. Pierre

    Fred
    “, Ramsey still played almost every PL game he was available in but was either subbed off or on in many of them”

    Now who’s rewriting history.

    Ramsey was fit and was benched for 9 (nine) consecutive league games in a 3 month period before Christmas

  84. Jamie

    Un –

    “Suarez, lich, Tierney and soares seem to indicate it’s not isolated to him

    We throw money at crocks but won’t keep cazorla on when we desperately need that quality in the final third

    Great logic”

    The logic is to stop throwing good money after bad.

    I suspect Arteta will move Tierney, Holding, Chambers, Hector, and any other player out who can’t prove consistent fitness by the end of next season. His tactics demand it.

    Probably one of the reasons he loves Xhaka – he’s almost never injured and probably trains like a monster.

  85. Marc

    Un

    Don’t need to but then I’ve been saying it periodically for years. Pedro’s count is somewhere north of 14.3 million.

  86. Freddie Ljungberg

    Pierre

    Learn to read.

    Only in 3 of those games didn’t he play.

    I thought you hated Ramsey anyway? Oh let me guess, you’re upset that I joked about your wanking sock with Ozils face on it? Cry me a river sockboy.

  87. Marc

    “Probably one of the reasons he loves Xhaka – he’s almost never injured and probably trains like a monster.”

    Unfortunately it’s the great Sloth monster who can’t focus his attention for very long.

  88. Marc

    Un

    How many times – you keep moving the timeline to after Wenger had left but you don’t let a player get within 2 weeks of his contract expiring you resign him months and months before.

    Wenger and Gazidis let them go.

  89. Pierre

    Nice joke fred ,

    if you’re a 12 year old schoolboy !

    I’m not surprised Ernest was impressed with your wanking reference.

    You need to be a merchant banker to find something as childish as that funny , and Ernest is certainly one.

  90. Ernest Reed

    Yeah it was and remains funny, Pierre. The thing that bothers a melt like you most is that its true. Seriously, get a life already…and…get a sense of humour already you old fool.

  91. Ernest Reed

    “I remember when I had my first beer”

    No you don’t, you’ve been drunk for so long you couldn’t possibly remember.

  92. Champagne Charlie

    “To that end, Cazorla had a question mark on his fitness. Was it the right call? At the time it certainly was and remains so today, after all they could have theoretically trying signing him again this past offseason or even enquired of a loan this winter?“

    Ernest I have time for you, but I can’t fathom this at all.

    You cant shrug and say ‘hindsight’, at the time there was discussion with many backing his retention but it was understood if they didn’t want to then they needed to replace him.

    They did neither, and laughably tried to bandaid it in Jan with one of the most nothing signings in the clubs history.

    Whichever way you slice it you cannot possibly sit today and go ‘yea, they did the right thing’. Because they absolutely didn’t as history has shown us. They did neither and their inaction could be reasonably argued as a contributory factor that cost the club CL football.

  93. Pierre

    Ernest
    I had a nice game of golf in the sun today, then into the club house for a few beers.

    Had a great day …..what was your day like.

  94. Paulinho

    Have to say I’m rather enjoying this Don love-in with Ramsey.

    Slightly bizarre after over two years of slating him at every conceivable juncture(as recently as two weeks ago), but enjoyable nevertheless.

  95. Ishola70

    Taken well by Barnes though.

    Just as well because Iheanacho isn’t going to help them much. Poo player.

  96. Ernest Reed

    “Had a great day …..what was your day like.”

    Spent in quarantine, Pierre. Some knucklehead in my neighbourhood came back from China recently and decided not to follow health protocols and stay in self-isolation. So, I’m doing what knuckles didn’t want to do, look after myself and my neighbors and co-workers and stay at home for the next two weeks.

    All in all, i can still work and do what i need. Life remains good.

  97. Ernest Reed

    No disagreement with you Charlie, they did not replace him even remotely adequately and instead we remain an immobile midfield that lacks any real creativity. All that i am saying is that they had a decision to make and made it based on their own risk evaluation. I would have done the same but…i would have obviously sought out a replacement and a real one at that. That remains hindsight as who knew that the guy they let walk would in fact turn his career around?.

  98. Ernest Reed

    Pierre, if you are going to be an asshole, at least try to be a decent one. Geez but you are a full on misery.

  99. Olumide

    One day, you may read about Cazorla in medical textbooks. “Mikel Sánchez, the surgeon, puts me in his talks, a case study,” he says. “He and the physios say they’ve never seen such an extreme case.” There were knee, foot and ankle injuries, targets missed, seemingly endless setbacks, and 10 operations; beneath the skin, splitting open and exposed, an infection consumed 10cm of tendon leaving the bone squishy, risking his leg and his career.

    Arsène Wenger said it was the worst injury he had seen and a doctor told Cazorla to settle for walking around the garden. “I’m a football nut,” he says, and for 636 days he did not play. Most thought he never would. There were nights where, lying alone a long way from home, he gave up. “I’d talk to my family and say: ‘It’s over. Tomorrow I’ll tell Juancar, the physio: I can’t go on, pal.’” But here he is, just finished training. He has started all three of Villarreal’s games this season.

    https://amp.theguardian.com/football/2018/sep/07/santi-cazorla-villarreal-injury-arsenal-interview-sid-lowe

    In addition, Cazorla was 33 after a 2-year injury. But but but…

    Le Grove medical experts and super fans: Cazorla should have been given a 2-year contract.

    The same people who think 30-year old ever fit Aubameyang should be sold because he’ll go downhill soon.

    Since Cazorla’s injury, Holding has gone on a long-term injury. Now struggling to get into the team.

    Same as Bellerin.

    Arsenal was right not to renew Cazorla. Arsenal was wrong not to replace him.

    Even without his injury, we should have been looking to replace a 33-year-old midfielder.

  100. CG

    British Press Alert.

    Manchester United and Fergie in for Bellingham.( defending off Dortmund)

    The new Trevor Francis?

    £35 000 000 for the 16/17 year old.

    That’s progressive.
    We spend that on the SPL crock Tierney.
    That’s regressive.

    Manchester United are on the march again?

  101. CG

    UN

    “””:Bellingham is meant to be blinding
    Lots of big noise about him””””

    I have no idea if he is any good.

    But if Dortmund are sniffing about- that normally means he is decent.

    The point I was trying to make.

    Great clubs like Manchester United or Bayern celebrate their legends( like Fergie or Beckenbauer)……we at Arsenal on the other hand belittle our icons and their achievements.

    If Wenger was still involved at the club ( as President as he should be)

    The Bellinghams and their talented Boy would be Arsenal bound.

  102. Valentin

    Arsenal could have offered pay as you play contract to Cazorla, but the decision was made not to do it.
    The argument that Cazorla was injured is a non-sense argument because the fact that he played his first game on 18-Aug-2018 means that clearly he was fit enough to play some football in August.

    Lots of clubs sign players who have had serious injury. Having been injured for a long time does not necessarily means that the player will be injured again in the future. That’s why there are medical: to assess the current medical situation not the history.

    The fact that Cazorla was subsequently recalled by the Spanish team also demonstrates that he is still one of the best midfielders. Clearly he would have improved our midfield.

  103. Valentin

    Funnily enough last summer I made the point that there is quality in the English lower league. The same people refused to even consider that Arsenal may be better off buying an talented but still raw 18~22 years old who has already a few season of Championship or League 1 than old experienced with low ceiling.

    Maddison, Grealish, Bellingham, Cantwell, etc are just the tip of the iceberg. There are massive amount of talents. They just need to be discover and properly coached/guided. There are 3 positions in which England does not have abundance of talents at any level. They are:

    goalkeeper (Jordan Pickford should nowhere near the England squad never mind holding the No1 Jersey)
    , defensive/holding midfielder (Eric Dier’s midfield enforcer experiment is officially over, …)
    and left back.

  104. Gonsterous

    Never saw the appeal of diaby, and Ramsey. Maybe in part because we have been blessed with so many great midfielders. Loved jackie when he was playing on loan to Bolton. But sadly injuries did him in.

    Loved santi and rosicky to bits though. I remember doing rosickys circling arms celebration when I scored for my school team.

  105. Words on a Blog

    One thing to note on the 7am piece is that the stats there aren’t adjusted to take into account our two sendings off, which skew the stats somewhat against Arteta.