Arteta arrives. BE EXCITED

by .

It finally happened, Mikel Arteta has returned home to manage The Arsenal. I’m over-joyed, you should be too.

The Spaniard turned up in a sharp suit, he looked the part and delivered an electric press conference. The sentiment amongst a fractured fanbase was unanimous in its positivity. We’re all excited to have a coach in place that speaks our language, literally, footballistically, and spiritually.

First and foremost, Arteta is here to fix the culture of a club that’s been going off the rails for the best part of 10 years. He said he felt low after coming here last week to give us a spanking at The Emirates. He’ll have seen that the team was flat on the pitch and he’ll have felt the toxicity in the stands. He has to change both those issues, but clearly, he recognises that the two are intertwined… not in a chicken and egg situation, in a great-football-means-great-vibes with the fans kind of way.

We have to try to engage everybody, I have to try and convince the players about what I want to do, how I want to do it, they have to start accepting a different process, a different way of thinking, and I want to get all the staff and everybody at the club with the same mindset.

We have to build a culture that has to sustain the rest. If you don’t have the right culture, in the difficult moments, the tree is going to shake, so my job is to convince everybody that this is how we are going to live, and if you are going to be part of this organisation it has to be in these terms and in this way.

And after that, we can talk about other things. Obviously now we need an immediate impact, we need to start winning games, we need to start to raise the level of confidence of the players, and finally we need the fans.

A culture is a set of desirable behaviours or actions you expect from a group. The trouble we’ve had over the last decade is there has been very little direction. A culture has to be in service of something. If there’s no vision or philosophy to believe in, it’s very difficult to expect players to behave in accordance to whatever views of culture we have in our own heads as fans.

A lot of us have pondered aloud ‘what is the Arsenal way?’ I think Arteta is about to bring some colour to that. He wants fast, free-flowing, attacking football. He wants players to be accountable, he wants to create a ruthless culture built around high performance. That was never clear under the last regime, or the one before that.

What I’ve learned mostly is that you have to be ruthless and you have to be consistent and you have to fit every day the culture of the club to create a winning mentality.

To sustain it is even harder, so every day is important, every act is important, every organisation is important. His work-rate is incredible, how inspirational he is to people is incredible.

But for me, the secret is that the people, the players and the staff, have to believe what they’re trying to deliver. You have to be able to transmit it, and people will buy into that.

The above is so important. Don’t just live your culture on warm summer days, or when you fancy it. Every day is important, every moment is an opportunity to prove yourself. This is what high performance is all about. One broken spoke at the highest level takes the machine off the road. He has a lot of broken spokes to mend, both amongst the playing staff and the backroom team.

I thought he handled most of the questions really well. He saluted Arsene Wenger and his impact on his own career. He celebrated the history, style and values of Arsenal, likening us to Barcelona. He held his hands up to the lack of experience accusation. He doesn’t have it, it’s a weakness, but one that he wants to address with passion, great ideas, and energy.

What I love, love, love is how much he wanted this job. He mentioned that he always yearned to return, he sees us as his club. He has Arsenal DNA.

When Arsenal knocks on any door, it’s difficult to say no. When it knocks on my door, this is my house and it makes it very difficult.

It was a very difficult decision, it’s true, but also I felt that the club needed someone to appoint. I saw that and they transmitted that.

They were so convinced that they wanted to go with me, that I had to take the challenge.

Love it. He is grateful for the opportunity. He respects the shirt. He desperately wants to make us great again. You bring in Jose, he’s bigger than Arsenal and he’d let you know. You bring in Allegri, he’s above the job. You flunk out with Nuno or Martinez, the ceiling is low, you’re going nowhere. Arteta is the future of football. Listen to him talk about the game here.

“Football is about habit & angles. It’s much more simple for a player if you can process the image of where your team-mate will be before receiving the ball.If I am in the kitchen and I know the glasses are always in this cupboard, I get my glass of water more quickly.”

He’s talking about cognition in football. Players learning patterns and movements so complex systems become second nature. Owning territories, seeking out playing signals, sensing danger. He’s painting complex ideas with simple words, can you now see why Emery had such a rough time?

He’s only been with us ten minutes and he’s asking where the drones are at so he can see training sessions from more angles. He’s an innovator, a deep thinker, and an absolute obsessive. The Athletic had a piece about him living on his own and people worrying about him because he’d have loads of games on TV with Beautiful Mind like tactical diagrams all over the place.

Now, cute stories in the media mean fuck all. Being young isn’t a skill. He still has a huge job on his hands. A great press conference isn’t going to win him points, it’s just a good start.

Reality is this: He is going to have a very rough 3 months. We’re going to lose games. He’ll fall out with players. There will be Youtubers shrieking about how they’re abandoning the vision just so they can be the first. As fans, we can’t cave, we have to show faith. There is an idea here. We are on the path to better. By the end of the season, I have no doubt we’ll be seeing a sharper identity. If we have a great summer, we will be competing for top 4 next season. From there, who knows where we could go.

We just need to keep the faith, accept the job is a big one, and believe in a new manager that is burning every drop of blood he has to make this work. I’m also hoping that Edu, who has taken ownership of this decision if his .com interview with Raul is anything to go by, is in lockstep about what the plan is. We need him to build an elite staff around Arteta, from what I gather, there are lots of moves in the pipeline, but some clubs are being tough about releasing staff. Steve Round is the assistant, he knows Mikel from his Everton days. We also have an exBarca goalkeeping coach. Most importantly, we have to address some of the player problems. If Xhaka is off in January, who is the dynamic midfielder we have lined up to replace him? If we’re losing big names in the summer, do we have a robust list of players we want to backfill? Who are the kids he’ll bring in?

I sound like a full-kit-coach-wanker saying this, but I believe great coaches make statements early on by bringing an unexpected kid through the ranks (Wenger > Anelka), making an average player great (Conte > Moses), or by killing a senior player (Mourinho > Mata). I pondered if Xhaka could be the average player, but I think he lacks physicality and pace. AMN could be an opportunity? ESR looked very good the other night, maybe he’s the kid? Could the senior player ready for the axe be one of our star strikers? Could Arteta revive Mesut Ozil?

So many questions. Reality is, this time, we have a world-class coach built for the Premier League. If Arteta can’t extract greatness, as he appears to have done with some big names at City, then the player isn’t going to work for Arsenal.

I am nervous about this hire. As they say in politics, it’s easy to be in opposition. I’ve been in opposition for 18 months, not really expecting Arsenal to make an incredibly bold and ambitious move. Now they have, I have to shut the fuck up and back this until the end. I’m confident though. Settling for a has-been would have been regressive. I don’t want a super-agent bitch at our club. There was no way we could have waited until the end of the season. Arteta is a very smart risk, he’s our moon-shot, the upsides to this are electric.

So in the words of Josh Kroenke, be excited, this is the next chapter we’ve been waiting for, it’s going to outrageous amounts of fun, I can’t wait to share the good times with you. He’s in the stands today, his first game in the dugout will be Bournemouth, his first home game, against Chelsea, which I will be at!

See you in the comments. x

946 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
kamp

I think I’ve seen this one, ‘Carry on footy’ I think it was called.

Cheers wenger.

Dissenter

Freddie was more interested in proving a point than winning the game

What a shame.
Arteta needs people around him that share what he eloquently described yesterday.

MidwestGun

1 minute to not screw up.. So Chambers yellow card means Arteta starts his managerial career with Luiz and Papa or Mustafi as his CB’s … sorry man.

HillWood

What a shit cart of a football match
No quality on show from either side
Arteta has work cut out

Dissenter

Xhaka would have impressed Arteta
I know that may annoy some

Samesong

Looking like I am celebrating not conceeding today rather than anything else.

A better team might of trampled all over us today.

Paulinho

Rambo – Martinelli’s overall talent definitely overhyped. His instincts in the box are what make him promising.

Gazzap

No Pepe again. Mmmm.

Champagne charlie

There’s been next to nothing created from us today but being more resolute is very welcome.

Arteta can build a style on something more resolute, hard to build anything on 25 shots conceded et al.

Goona

CRAP

Samesong

Martinelli is just another overrated kid who will lose his shine very quickly.

Disagree He is playing in midfield and defending. Plus having to run the half of the pitch.

Granted he’s not played well today but overated he is not.

salparadisenyc

Wouldn’t wish viewing 90min of Arsenal on my worst enemy at moment.

Samesong

All hail the clean sheet.

Cesc Appeal

Really poor.

A lot of work to be done.

The transfer team needs to be working right now.

Jim Lahey

Delighted I will never have to watch another Ljungberg team play ever again, christ he was awful.

MidwestGun

I laugh at the dumbfvcks in our fanbase.
_______
No offense but why do you even bother to watch our matches dude? You just seem pizzed off and mad at the world.. all the time and you hate all the players.

Marko

We’ve 1 win in about 20. Freddie “overlooking” whoever is absolutely of no relevance

If it’s of no relevance then why pipe in shithead

InsideRight

A clean sheet. That’s something at least. Now it’s over to Mikel. A new era dawns.

Rambo

Arteta: “Will be watching you”
Arse lads: “We don’t give a shit”

Bob N16

Ferguson ‘fantastic performance we put in’!

TR7

Rambo

Agree Martineli is not as good as some on here make him out to be. I said a few weeks ago Saka was the most talented youngster in our team. But the guy has the hunger and desire to perform which makes him look better than most other youngsters. He does have the knack to be in the right place at the right time and that is a good quality to have.

Leftsidesanch

Thank God we dont have Freddie leading this side, will squeeze in his favourite kids even when it doesnt make sense.

TheBayingMob

It’s unbelievable what a dead weight Wenger left us with, the club in a terrible state after years of only the senile one at the helm. Remember when everyone was crooning over what a genius he was and how when he left he would leave the club in a better position than he found it? Even I believed that at one at one point. He ran us into the ground the selfish old cunt.

Onward and upwards Mikel

Bamford10

That was two mostly poor teams playing poorly. This Arsenal squad does not offer Arteta a lot to work with player-wise, but I was really impressed with him yesterday, so I remain excited and optimistic about the future. It will be another year at least, however, before we have a top four quality squad, so people are going to need to be patient.

MidwestGun

Take the 1 point and run … I say. Pierre was predicting we get hammered after all.

Chemmer

Sentiments aside, Freddie has added nothing to this side since he took over.

Arteta please take the reigns already.

Chemmer

Sentiments aside, Freddie has added nothing to this side since he took over.

Arteta please take the reigns already.

Bob N16

Rambo, you really expected a massive transformation simply due to him arriving? Defensively, off the ball we were better, admittedly against a poor Everton.

Jim Lahey

If Martinelli is just “another overrated kid” what does that make all the rest of the dross that was on display today?

Nelson

A clean sheet today. The team shape has improved a lot. Arteta must have advised our forwards not to high pressing like mad dogs.

Rambo

Midwestgun

Who the fvck are you?

Edu me a favour

Martinelli over hyped now is he – first semi poor game from him this season and now he’s over hyped – he wasnt even that bad given the context of the game

I’ll take the point and the clean sheet for Leno next to the fact we didn’t concede 987 shots

MidwestGun

Rambo-
I’m a fan…. you might try it out.

Spanishdave

Most here said we would loose, not a great game but we defended better, just nothing up front.
Pepe should have come on for twenty mins but Freddie was making a point .
Nelson is not ready yet.
Our journey with Arteta begins.

CG

Excrement FC 0 Excrement FC 0

Edu has a nice new shiny watch though.

Oh for the days when we used to score 4,5, 6 at Goodison Park.

Wengers last season v Everton

Everton 2 Arsenal 5
Arsenal 5 Everton 1

Aaron Ramsey scored 4 of them and indeed is the last person to score a hatrick for Arsenal.

Our technical excellence has actually decreased markedly since the pathetic Edu arrived.

How ironic?

No Rambo No Chance!

Receding Hairline

“You can both sit up on the stands and watch us all you like, we are two crap teams, get used to it” seemed to be the theme of the afternoon

azed

Horrible game.

Nelson would not make it at Arsenal.

Saka at left back did more attacking wise.

Ishola70

Very drab match. Indication of how drab was that the first offside call was made in the 85th minute. With the youngsters Arsenal put out today coupled with Everton’s mini resurgence previously it became a match where a point for Arsenal is seen as a decent result. Will be more interesting when there is more onus on Arsenal to win the match. Arsenal looked to have more focus and hunger to protect their goal in this one tbh it’s difficult to really tell in a match as average as this one. Funnily enough Everton may have been more dangerous if… Read more »

Jim Lahey

“Pepe should have come on for twenty mins but Freddie was making a point .”

What point? That he hasn’t a clue what he is doing?

Thank fuck that is the last time he picks a team.

Leftsidesanch

Freddie wasn’t making any point, his subs have been largely ineffective in his interim stint and when he does make them its just to make sure his favourite babies get some game time.

Chemmer

Please can this whole Ozil situation be resolved once and for all?

Today, Freddie admitted that he wouldn’t have picked him anyway. And as you would expect, Ozil injured his foot while logging into his Twitch account.

Our “white elephant” has more than outlived it’s purpose.

Marko

Martinelli’s overall talent definitely overhyped.

I can see this is going to be a recurring theme. Bar one or two idiots who said he’d be contesting Balon d’ors with Mbappe I don’t see him getting overhyped. He’s had trials at Barcelona and Man United, had Klopp call him a generational talent and scored 7 goals in his first 8 starts at the club. Any sort of hype seems justified.

Jeff

Arteta to the rescue. I can just hear the trumpets and fanfare as he takes Arsenal from 10th to ….wait for it…… 9th. All hail the messiah. Never in the field of sport have so many fans been deluded by so few.

Leftsidesanch

Exactly Lahey, not a single clue.

We cannot keep dropping points, that was a game we could have arose victorious from.

Rambo

“If Martinelli is just “another overrated kid” what does that make all the rest of the dross that was on display today?”

Bunch of average talented kids who will find themselves playing in the Championship.

TR7

You can be a good player and still be overhyped. So was not a dig from me at Martinelli in my last post. I will have him and Saka in my line up all the time given the options we have.

Bamford10

Paulinho

Agree re Martinelli. He’s better through the center and that’s where he should be deployed.

Rambo

Midwestgun

Okay, will take that under advisement.

Daz

“But the guy has the hunger and desire to perform which makes him look better than most other youngsters”

It doesn’t make him look better it makes him better

CG

Paulinhio !!!????

My friend….. help me……

Did we Press well?
And who in particular were the best and most dynamic pressers?

And who were the naughty ones that didn’t?
Because I noticed some of the younger players were wearing gloves……
seems to me- it was too cold to press today……

Please Help…..

Samesong

PaulinhoAgree re Martinelli. He’s better through the center and that’s where he should be deployed.

Spot on!

Ishola70

Nelson
“A clean sheet today. The team shape has improved a lot. Arteta must have advised our forwards not to high pressing like mad dogs.”

Don’t take too much stock in this match.

Everton were going through the motions for the majority of that game.

If you want teams to have the ball and advance on the Arsenal penalty area unopposed and Arsenal to drop deep all the time you are going to be disappointed in the results because Arsenal are going to face a lot of teams that are going to be a lot hungrier than Everton were today.

Dolomite

Well spotted Azed

Very poor decision making, not tracking back and basically was the imbalance on the right side of today’s team with Maitland Niles

I also think Arteta had a hand in Aubameyang being subbed for Lacazette. I hope Arteta continues with such ruthlessness across the squad

Edu me a favour

“” Arteta to the rescue. I can just hear the trumpets and fanfare as he takes Arsenal from 10th to ….wait for it…… 9th. All hail the messiah. Never in the field of sport have so many fans been deluded by so few.”””

Never has one fan been so fucking boring

Pierre

Midwest
I did think we may get hammered ..surprisingly Everton didn’t play to their strengths.

Clean sheet is excellent , back 4 played very well and good protection from xhaka and Torreira..

I was worried that we would be bombarded but Everton were strangely subdued..

Gives something for arteta to build on , it was about as good as he could wish for .

Samesong

Martinelli should of been introduce to the first team earlier in my opinion.

Auba needs dropping.

Marko

I fancy us against Bournemouth though. Assuming Arteta isn’t totally all waffle of course. We probably would have won today and against Norwich had Freddie made better decisions either starting 11 or subs. Everton were there for the taking today and he only makes two subs and keeps Nelson on for 90 mins. He should be nowhere near the first team coaching staff honestly.

Micheal

Dreadful, truly dreadful. The only way is up.

Jim Lahey

Saka looks a good player, but we can’t start forcing him into playing positions where he is not comfortable, a great way of ruining a young kids confidence.

There has to a decent LB in our U-23 set up?

TheLegendaryDB10

Well, having not watched the game, getting a draw is better than nothing. From reading some of you we are still shite. Not surprised of course.

Samesong

With Nelson I see someone who is trier. However his brain moves too fast for his feet. Lost the ball too many times today, I expect youngsters that step up to the first team to at least be able to play it safe.

Dolomite

Anyone that calls Martinelli overhyped doesn’t know anything about football.

Along with Saka he was the overall reason we had a semblance of balance on one side of the pitch – easily a game we could have lost without his and Sakas energy – something I’m sure MA would also have noticed.

Jeff

Yes Edu, and you’re the life and soul of the party aren’t you, twat.

MidwestGun

Rambo_
Ok man.. just sayin.. seems to be eating you up inside. I personally don’t think Martinelli has much hype at all.. in the media. Not like say a Guendouzi who I have seen articles that we should build the team around him.

Anyhow.. if your not getting any joy out of anything, I personally wouldn’t bother. For me I try to see at least a few positives and for me that’s Martinelli. Just don’t know why I cant have some joy about that. without it being hype.

Marko

To be fair that is kind of true Big Dunc had them bouncing recently so prior we might have taken the draw. But really we should have won if Freddie was a bit more thoughtful and adventurous with his two subs. Did he forget that he gets 3? I do wonder

Jim Lahey

@Marko –

“He should be nowhere near the first team coaching staff honestly.”

Agree wholeheartedly, his in-game decisions have been shocking. Could you imagine where we could have ended up if they allowed him to keep the job until summer??

Samesong

Today Martinelli showed a maturity about his game. Not great going forward but also didn’t neglect the hard work , tracking back. The guy has stamina to burn.That should be noted. Came off a few dirty tackles and still played on.

This is my kind of player. I am confident he will score more goals.

It was a game we could of won had we been better offensively but it was game we dare not lose either.

Marko

There has to a decent LB in our U-23 set up?

That Lopez lad we got from Barcelona a couple years back is supposed to be good but he’s not ready yet

MidwestGun

Pierre-‘

Haha I was just needling.. a bit. I was expecting us to lose too, to be honest. Everton definitely didn’t look good either. Reminded me of a preseason match.

CG

Steve Round is coming on board though.

About as inspiring as another dose of haemorrhoids.

Arteta +Round+ Edu……..

the big boys of world soccer will be quaking in their boots with that trio.

But As I said before- its no slight on Arteta.

This club is unmanageable- when there are cowards and charlatans amongst us.

And the players know this too.

Marko

CG has something against Steve Round. Just out of the blue

Batistuta

AMN again being shown up by a youngster on the other wing who’s playing out of position…

Chambers had a good game as did Luiz.

Better from Xhaka

Torreira was steady

Nelson is crap

Auba doesn’t look like he’s feeling it anymore

shaun

a new stadium and facilities makes spurs the better job…..absolute bollocks

azed

CG

My cousin’s neighbor has a kid in the same class as Steve Round’s Gardner’s daughter and he says Steve Round looks at a player’s calf before signing them. That should count for something right?

Marko

Yeah credit has to be given to Saka playing LB and not getting sent off today. Very intelligent and promising from him.

Bob N16

Bati, thought AMN had a pretty steady game. Agree Saka looks better.

Freddie Ljungberg

Another boring game but we got more out of it than I thought we would, also a clean sheet. Xhaka was slightly better than his usual dreadful standard but still slows our play down and commits silly fouls. What has Pepe done to not get on the pitch in place of Nelson? He’s one of the very few players we have that has that X factor and create something out of nothing. Think people are too harsh on Freddie though, he’s an assistant and didn’t ask to be put in charge of the team, doesn’t mean he’s a crap coach… Read more »

CG

Marko

“””CG has something against Steve Round. Just out of the blue”””””

I do indeed have something against journeymen, loosers, repeated failures, yes men and dopes……

I like Arteta . A lot.

But his choice of assistant manager is an inept one.

he can choose anyone he pleases. But he chooses this dope.

The cheerleaders will say – he is this and that- but he is garbage.
Because his track record is garbage.

truth hurts!

End of.

Ishola70

Batistuta
“Chambers had a good game as did Luiz.”

Chambers still had his customary error though didn’t he right at the end of the match when he miscontrolled the ball when Arsenal were playing out from the back which led to him conceding a dangerous freekick in a dangerous area. This time it didn’t prove costly.

This is the problem with him. He can be having a decent to good match and then bang he makes a costly error.

The match was a dead one tbh.

Not much to take from it.

Rambo

Dolomite

“Anyone that calls Martinelli overhyped doesn’t know anything about football.”

You’re right Mineral man, football is harder than Metallurgy.

Midwestgun,

Okay, will take that under advisement.

Paulinho

In terms of looking a bit more compact and resolute, tends to happen when Guendouzi is not involved.

shaun

thought the game was crying out for Pepe in my opinion , would love Arteta to light the fire under Auba again as he is a goal scorer but he is being starved at the moment plus his attitude is not right

Paulinho

Luiz looked a bit better today.

Actually came out with the ball a few times and used his left foot to find players instead of being glued to the spot and passing backwards.

Guns of Brixton

Granit Xhaka v Everton (A):

•79 Touches

•59 Acc Passes (89.4% Accuracy)

•2/2 Dribbles

•5 Acc Long Balls

•6 Duels Won

•4 Clearances

China1

We were more solid defensively than for some time (still not exactly world class abut that’s to be expected) Saka was MOTM for me. He did well defensively and was our brightest spark offensively. Fair play to him AMN and chambers were reasonable overall. Luiz was dreadful in the first half and a bit less bad in the second Leno was fine Xhaka was unusually quite good. Torreira was reasonable but nothing special. The main problem was in the first half our 4 offensive players were so far ahead of play that the midfield had no one to play forward… Read more »

CG

Azed

“””My cousin’s neighbor has a kid in the same class as Steve Round’s Gardner’s daughter and he says Steve Round looks at a player’s calf before signing them. That should count for something right?””””

maybe he has seen the light,

ill let him be…..
ill give him a chance…..
he could be a fellow Freemason – he might know about The Calf Muscle Mass Index then!

thanks for that titbit

Ishola70

The next match against Bournemouth will be more telling than the one today.

Arteta’s first match in charge, Arsenal will be looking for a win most likely after drawing today and you have Bournemouth who have won just once in how many matches but their last match a good victory for them.

We should see a much hungrier game from both sides in that one.

Today was flat and dead.

First offside call in the 85th minute.

Dead game.

China1

I’d give luiz’s first half a 3/10 and his second half a 7

Average it out to a 5/10 over the 90 from me…

Mr Serge

Azed lol

Dolomite

“You’re right Mineral man, football is harder than Metallurgy. Midwestgun,Okay, will take that under advisement.”

Dolomite

What exactly are you saying?

CG

lets hope Arteta immediately puts a stop to our younger players wearing gloves.

it really is a pitiful sight.

China1

CG I once played against a chinese five a side team who had a player I shit you not he looked anorexic. His calves were basically just bones with a couple of strings attached.

But he had the most ridiculously powered shot I’ve ever seen in my life and all he did when on the ball was shoot, full power, regardless of where he was.

He even would shoot at full power from 6 yards out. It was disgusting

Anyway how does that dude fit in to the calf muscle index philosophy?

KAY Boss

What’s with this slow play from our midfield especially with Xhaka. Guy slows the dead from judgement. He’s too passive for my liking.
Hope Arteta has noticed they problems with the team. I slept halfway through the game.

Spanishdave

One win in ten games, eight draws out of 18 games, sums up the big job ahead.
Defended better today but very poor up front, midfield needs a chance creator we didn’t have one today.
Auba is not bothered any more, drop him.

InsideRight

Sorry but CG is just starting to bore the shit out of me. It’s a miracle he hasn’t topped himself such is his misery.

Marko

It’s a miracle he hasn’t topped himself such is his misery.

Miracle travesty a crying shame. One of those surely

Samesong

Insight agreed

The calf muscle references are dead.

Victorious

Horrible game of football

Could have played for till boxing day and no team could have scored

Nelson was the worst player on the pitch and yet played the full 90,that in a nutshell is why Freddie ain’t ready

Cant wait for Arteta to sweep aside Bournemouth playing swashbuckling football, really didn’t look impressed with what he was watching. Awful from Freddie, will be surprised if he made him assistant.

Victorious

I slept halfway through the game.

Minor miracle that you reached half way I’d say, I dozed off around the 20minute mark.

1 4 5 6 7 8 10