Does Torreira to Milan make sense?

by & filed under News Review.

Well, well, well… the ‘YOU TOOK THAT OUT OF CONTEXT’ police back-peddling hard as the Lucas T rumours kick it up another gear… again.

Of all the players I was hoping we’d ditch this summer, I have to be honest, he wasn’t up there… but the rumours keep persisting with a slightly different twist on them.

Now, we do have to remember, he came out in the press and said everything about England is shite. Hard to brush that under the carpet, whichever internet translator you use. There’s a history of South American’s not quite liking the vibes in the UK, and right now, he’s in the shop window of The Copa America. All these rumours have started for a reason, and my take is they’re there to make sure scouts are paying attention to him over the next month.

Question here is this: the second half of the season fade we saw from LT, is that just a first season thing? Or is it something deeper. He’s a very small player that lacks power, he’s not exactly built for war like Kante, is he? Mesut Ozil always fades in the second half of the season because he’s not fit enough for the league. Is there a chance that’s LT? Just playing devil’s advocate here…

Whatever the deal is, it’s not good news that over a month into the close season, the hottest exit rumour out of the club is a player we all think is a bit of a future star.

As I said a couple of weeks ago, I think we have a very big problem mounting. Everyone in Europe knows who we want to sell. Xhaka, Ozil, Kola and Mustafi are all very well paid players, and it’s pretty clear that Arsenal are VERY keen to move them on. We have absolutely no leverage. Why would anyone go big now? Wait until we’re desperate to move them on at the end of the transfer window and see if you can nab a deal.

It’s a horrible thing to have to write, but be honest, you’d bet your house that all 4 of those players will be lining up in preseason this summer in that sweet Adidas training gear. That is going to be VERY disruptive if Emery dropped 1 out of 5 stars in their end of season reviews.

I’d like to think that we’re going to have some good news on the player front by preseason, but even that side of things appears to be moving slowly. My hope here is that we’re getting hard balled by clubs hoping to start a bidding war for their players. Celtic certainly appear to be quite firm about not losing another great player for fuck all. Maybe that’s the same across the board? Maybe small clubs are waiting to see where the first £200m signing goes before pricing their players?

I’d heard from a good place that the Zaha deal was very close with the player before the Europa League Final, the question is whether we’re still able to play in price ranges like that now we’re back in the poverty cup again.

Rumours elsewhere appear to be the same stories recycled. Saliba for £30m. Carrasco if he can escape. Whatever is going on, it’s a slow summer so far and it’s very hard not to fall into the doom trap thinking that if you don’t have the right people in place, it’s very hard to make the right decisions.

Also worth noting that almost no journalist is good with transfer rumours, so all these muppets on twitter highlighting great sources don’t know what they’re talking about. The whole transfer game is about deceit. Clubs try to move players on and attract buyers via the press. Agents constantly gas to anyone that will listen. Journalists and bloggers alike are desperate for hits so will go big without checking the veracity of the rumours. Even players are part of the game.

You can also have the most elite piece of information you can imagine… then BANG, you look like an idiot because a manager had a change of heart.

It’s a minefield out there… but one thing is for sure, it’s not good news when you’re a month into a rebuild and no one has been bought or sold.

Right, see you in the comments.

434 Responses to “Does Torreira to Milan make sense?”

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  1. DM

    The Torreira situation is simple. He is under contract with us. We don’t want to sell him. If a club really wants him, he’ll cost £120m. Thanks, bye.

  2. Victorious

    Really puzzling how the usual suspects that tussle for positions on here manages to combine the absolute devotion to the cause and having a life

    You literally never see them type a word in the old post(except 1,2,3,4) and when a new one come up…..Booom..they come flying in from nowhere,i mean with such precision everytime

  3. David Smith

    Torriera, dont know.
    But what I do know, this England side , for their talent are the most gormless team in cricket

  4. Dissenter

    Kroenke ought to let Arsenal spend from the cache of money stacked up from previous transfer windows inactivity. That will not violate FFP because it’s money that was already earned. It would be within the self-sustainable philosophy.
    There’s no reason why Arsenal should have over 50 million in out account, no other club in world football stashes away 200 million+ in a bank account.
    We need to leave it all on the field. Put that money in footballing assets. The rate of appreciation of well scouted talent is exponential compared to cash in a back account.

  5. Marko

    There’s already some walking back the Torreira stuff so at this point just assume that it was either bullshit from the get go or a non starter early on

    Also what did DiMarzio say?

  6. Samesong

    But what I do know, this England side , for their talent are the most gormless team in cricket

    No Australia are just the side to beat at the moment.

  7. Dissenter

    Vic
    “Really puzzling how the usual suspects that tussle for positions on here manages to combine the absolute devotion to the cause and having a life

    I suspect they have embedded cookies on Pedro’s website and it notifies them to come and start the counting. It’s a well honed skill you have to respect.

  8. Jamie

    Receding –

    I’m sure those who place considerable value in those statistics will be consistent when they’re used to assess Lampard’s performance next season.

    Chelsea supporters should be seeing improvements from day 1. Also, he’s fluent in English, so no ‘foreign’ jibes will fly either. He’ll either improve the Chelsea squad through training and tactics, or he won’t.

  9. gunnermjj

    That look from Cristiano Ronaldo at Aaron Ramsey after his 15th misplaced pass…

    That is how I feel about Arsenal’s summer transfer policy!

  10. HighburyLegend

    “it’s not good news when you’re a month into a rebuild and no one has been bought or sold.”
    The Arsenal way.

  11. Guns of Brixton

    In short, no one is effing off, no one is coming in

    And so we are 100% solid on having an absolute stinker of a season again.

  12. James.wood

    Nothing worse than disruptive or unhappy players at a club.

    The whole atmosphere becomes tainted.
    Players give less.?
    And I don’t see Emery as Gee up type.
    More of a Barker I would suggest.

  13. Marko

    I have a feeling that the potential signings of Tierney and Saliba alone will put to rest the down and out in Beverly Hills vibes at Arsenal. Saliba alone should be a good indicator of our plans/vision for the future. Since when do we pay 20-30 million for an 18 year old and then loan him back to a club.

  14. David Smith

    Australia maybe Samesong, but Englands impending exit will be defined by Pakistan, and especially Sri Lanka.

  15. Marko

    Oh yeah. Probably unverified quotes from Dimarzio. Best to remove just in case

    Receding you could look at it that way I’d look at it as actual evidence of a plan. Paying big money on an 18 year old and then loaning him back is huge for us it shows we actually have people thinking long term in the transfer market.

  16. Victorious

    All good bringing in youngsters for the future but Saliba is almost certainly not making any impact for us next season and this is after splurging out half of our supposed budget

    really odd for a defence that conceded 60+ goals last season

    Would think bringing in an elite first team CB who could potentially be a leader would be priority..we should be looking at the impact VVD has made for dippers and thinking of having some of that, not necessarily the same scale

    Tierney will be a good start but until proper problems in the squad are addressed it would seem like administering band aid to someone needing major surgery

  17. Dissenter

    We can purchase Saliba from out rainy day funds [the cache of money that Arsenal keeps piling away] and proceed with out 2019 window as usual.
    … or better still, just spend from next years transfer budget.

  18. Pierre

    Imagine if Wenger was spending £18million on an 18 year old centre back and then loaning him back …

    I’m not sure that Marko would be saying it’s evidence of a plan and that it’s huge as we are looking lot term., especially as money is so tight.

  19. Victorious

    is huge for us it shows we actually have people thinking long term in the transfer market”

    Could also show us not having much of a plan.

    We absolute need first team players just as much as having youngsters for the future

    You should be bother there’s a genuine possibility of us finishing below 6th next season if certain players in the first 11 aren’t just replaced but upgraded upon

  20. Receding Hairline

    “Imagine if Wenger was spending £18million on an 18 year old centre back and then loaning him back …I’m not sure that Marko would be saying it’s evidence of a plan and that it’s huge as we are looking lot term., especially as money is so tight.”

    I have to agree with Pierre here

    I don’t see the plan

    If he is worth 26m pounds at 18 then he is better than Mustafi and a finished Koscielny and should be here playing next season

    Future bets cost under 10m like Guendouzi, 26m pounds is steep for a player who all of him seem to believe will be a future superstar, such hype usually bothers me

  21. Dissenter

    Funny enough, I think Vincent Kompany stands a better chance of succeeding Pep Guardiola at city if he does well as a real manager.
    Arteta better get his arse out of that cone stacking arrangement and go manage a club.

  22. Marko

    Imagine if Wenger was spending £18million on an 18 year old centre back and then loaning him back …

    He just wouldn’t do it would he. I mean actually bringing in a proper highly rated prospect. Instead he shied away from buying Varane and Umtiti and Rugani when they were younger and affordable. He bought Chambers instead. A sign of the times now that he’s gone

  23. WengerEagle

    We’ve conceded 102 PL goals over the last two seasons.

    Buying an 18 year old kid that’s made 16 first team Ligue 1 apps for 25-30m and loaning him back for a year to France would be a bizarre move.

    How much of our budget would we be blowing on a player that does precisely fuck all to help us for at least a year.

  24. WengerEagle

    Marko we need x2 starting CB’s in the market so how does spending 30m on Saliba and loaning him back to France represent savvy business exactly?

    We’re not Liverpool who were a piece or two away, we’ve just moved into a gaf that has no furniture or electricity and the roof is pissing rainwater.

  25. Dissenter

    Receding
    How on earth did Osei-Tutu go from almost playing in a EL final to going out on loan to a German division 2 club side?
    How come even the bottom dwelling teams in the top divisions or Europe weren’t interested in this great talent?

  26. Marko

    Maybe it’s not a good deal after all. I don’t get people sometimes we’re literally doing what people complain we don’t do enough and you’re still complaining. Nah fuck it might as well call it off and let him go to Spurs or City. Or how about we wait a couple years and get into a bidding war for him with bigger and better clubs

  27. Words on a Blog

    Is it me, or (excluding Real,Atletico and a couple of Tier 2 Italian clubs) has this been the quietest transfer window (in terms of actual transfers rather than rumours and “news”) in England/Europe in a long time?

    What’s (not) going on?

  28. Receding Hairline

    “How on earth did Osei-Tutu go from almost playing in a EL final to going out on loan to a German division 2 club side?”

    Lol

    Osei-tutu did not come close to playing in the final

    Valentin has actually back tracked on that, he claims he never said he should have played in the final.

  29. Victorious

    Won’t personally be paying more than 15M tops for Saliba.

    Would add 20M to that go hard for Skriniar

    Why do we have Scouts in the club when they can’t scoure the planet and unearth other less expensive promising 18yo CBs to given time to develop

    Looks like the current management are utterly out of their depth

  30. Words on a Blog

    I’m used to Arsenal fannying about, but this time nobody has announced any business to speak of.

  31. Dissenter

    There’s nothing wrong with signing Saliba, so long as it doesn’t take away a penny from this season’s transfer budget.
    We have a problem with ageing defenders, this will get even worse next season. Buying Saliba now with one year of guaranteed regular playing time in Ligue un is elite planning.

  32. englandsbest

    My belief is that the list of players the Club are willing to sell includes all of them. And for a very straightforward reason: the net money available for transfers is zero or very close to zero. In other words, Emery/Raul need to sell to buy.

    This may well be common knowledge out there, amongst managers and agents. Add in that Arsenal have few players other Clubs want, and those they may want are on high wages at the Club, and it’s easy to understand why no business has been done so far.

    A dire predicament for Emery and Raul. Benitez, in a similar situation, has resigned.

  33. Dissenter

    RH
    “Valentin has actually back tracked on that, he claims he never said he should have played in the final.”

    The internet does not forget

  34. Receding Hairline

    “we’re literally doing what people complain we don’t do enough and you’re still complaining.”

    I don’t believe anyone literally called for a team leaking goals to pay 26m pounds for a youngster and let the club keep him on loan. Yes City can do that because they will then pay 80m pounds for Maguire to play NOW.

    Spurs have never bought a player and sent him on loan, not even 5m pounds Alli

    We called for smart scouting and catching them young. Not 26m pounds for a 16 appearance 18 year old followed by a loan back to the team that just mugged us off

  35. HighburyLegend

    “There’s nothing wrong with signing Saliba”

    In fact, there’s nothing wrong with signing any player… but this is Arsenal Circus Club.

  36. TR7

    Dissenter

    ‘We can purchase Saliba from out rainy day funds [the cache of money that Arsenal keeps piling away] and proceed with out 2019 window as usual.’

    Where is this pile of money that you keep referring to ?

  37. Marko

    Marko we need x2 starting CB’s in the market so how does spending 30m on Saliba and loaning him back to France represent savvy business exactly?

    Where to start. Well one we don’t know the price yet. Two we wouldn’t be paying it up front. Three it’s savvy if we end up getting a highly rated prospect before anyone else. Again I really don’t understand our fanbase sometimes. Equal parts stupid and moaning at times (not you specifically). We complain about not getting smart in the transfer market about not getting ahead of teams in the transfer market. Us buying a highly rated prospect before he blows up is us getting ahead of the transfer market. To think if we did something similar in years gone by we could have had Varane/Ramos/Marquinhos for example. Hey I’m not happy about signing a defender that we likely won’t use next season but I’m absolutely delighted that we’re actually targeting a proper prospect for once. Eisfeld/Bischoff/Asano/Wellington Silva he most certainly is not

  38. Receding Hairline

    “Buying Saliba now with one year of guaranteed regular playing time in Ligue un is elite planning.”

    Not at 26m pounds

    You go hard on Mavropranos but think paying 26m pounds for an 18 year old with 26 appearances is elite planning.

    It is elite planning if you are Real Madrid or Manchester City not Arsenal in our present state

  39. terraloon

    Dissenter

    Two things about spending big using monies contained in the reserves

    First Here’s what AST say about the cash reserves

    Cash balances

    There is a general misconception that Arsenal are debt free and sitting on spare cash. This is incorrect. The analysis of the May 2018 accounts published back in March showed that whilst there was substantial cash held at that time (£231m) it was largely spoken for:

    Cash

    £231m

    Debt Service accounts

    £36m

    Working capital

    £50m

    Net player payments due 2018-19

    £0m

    Debt repayments

    £9m

    One off factors

    £17m

    Spare Cash

    £119m

    Net spend – summer 2018*

    -£31m

    Residual Cash

    £88m

    *Assumption that 50% of the net payment due of £61.4m is to be paid within 12 months with the remainder in future year installments

    This estimated £88m of residual cash is balanced by a further £92m of net future payments still due on players in 19/20 and beyond.

    Given the known conservative approach from Arsenal it is accordingly estimated that the only spare cash available at present is that which has been generated in the season to May 2019 (before players sales). As the first table above shows this in the region of £40-50m.

    Second

    Even if there was substantial sums in those reserves that could be spent it would negatively impact on FFP.

  40. WengerEagle

    Marko

    You were probably hard on Soyuncu last summer as well, these prospects are never guaranteed to pan out and tbh far less of them make it to the top level than not.

    Nobody would have a problem with the potential Saliba deal if we hadn’t just conceded 51 PL goals yet again and needed x2 starting CB’s but life is such that we do.

    How much of our ‘warchest’ would we be spunking on this kid too?

  41. Receding Hairline

    Cesc i will be very happy with him too if i see him in red and white next season

    If he is worth 26m pounds at 18, he is good enough for a starting place in the defense line of 2019 Arsenal FC

  42. Marko

    Would add 20M to that go hard for Skriniar

    So 35 million for Skriniar? Who just signed a new deal and is likely worth 70 million at least. Genius.

    when they can’t scoure the planet and unearth other less expensive promising 18yo CBs to given time to develop Looks like the current management are utterly out of their depth

    Double genius. Ah yeah there’s a tonne of highly rated 18 year olds out there why not just pick up the cheapest. Easy that

  43. MidwestGun

    *sigh*
    …. So this has what it has come down to… trying to sell our DM after not having one for ages or even trying to transfer one in despite the obvious hole in our squad because he hates rain.. Fuck me.

    Meanwhile… the axis of evil gifted to us by Wenger.. Ozil, Mustafi,Miki, and Xhaka look like they will be here next season…. awesome. Great.

    To be fair.. Emery seems to rate Xhaka and Miki.. no idea why though.. they will disappoint again.
    Anyhow.. most of this transfer stuff is all crap.. so I’m trying to refrain from commenting on speculation………Zaha palooza.. seems pointless. Until I see him in a red Adidas kit.
    Very, very hard to remain optimistic.. Kind of like waiting for a magician to pull a white bunny out of his Abraham Lincoln hat but we will see I guess. Time is ticking down until the start of preseason.

    As for Saliba we should absolutely be buying him..for the future, that’s what you have to do as a Club is accumulate and speculate. And clearly this is part of the club’s plan with Freddie and Edu. But it won’t help us next season, I think that part of the plan got nuked when we lost to Chelski and the list we had got revamped as Pedro alluded to in regards to Zaha coming here. Anyhow got my rant out of the way for the day…. back to waiting.

  44. Receding Hairline

    “You were probably hard on Soyuncu last summer as well”

    Yea not just him many on here were , he did fcuk all at Leicester last season

    16 appearances is such a small sample of games in Ligue 1 for a player to be proclaimed a future world beater and by people who i can bet have never watched 90m of a game involving St Etienne more than thrice

  45. Marko

    Weird if we purchase Saliba just to loan him back

    Actually quite a few clubs do that. Granted it’s usually clubs that can afford to wait for a defender (we can’t) but we have to do it

  46. MidwestGun

    If Holding is healthy … I think we can afford to wait for a CB. What we can’t do is play the same midfield we had as last season or have no wingers and fullbacks who can’t defend.

  47. Marc

    Why don’t we offer a different player on a year loan – there’s got to be someone we can dangle.

    And Cesc – Ozil off a bridge is not an option.

  48. Victorious

    Unless the 45M budget is baloney and we actually have much more to play with then spending a large chunk of it on a kid only to loan him back is epic buffonery

    It would also mean we’re bringing in just one other average CB in and that one of Kos or Mustafi is certainly staying put..money’s on Mustafi..hasnt being credited with any link away whatsoever

    How very arsenal

  49. Dissenter

    I read the AST review as well.
    http://archive.arsenaltrust.org/news/2017/ast-review-of-arsenals-financial-reports-for-201718. You don’;t need to speak latin to understand it.
    It says we have residual cash after all is “spoken for” of about 88 million.
    Arsenal is very conservative , in an era where we have to take some risks to redeuce the ever growing gap. What use is that money when the footballing product is moldy?

    “Even if there was substantial sums in those reserves that could be spent it would negatively impact on FFP.”

    …sorry mate but this is quality BS.
    First you say there is no money, then you say… ‘even if”…which is it?
    This is money earned already, idling away, not a give away from anybody.
    Why do you people write all this stuff as facts?

    How much does Liverpool have stashed away.

  50. Marko

    We called for smart scouting and catching them young. Not 26m pounds for a 16 appearance 18 year old followed by a loan back to the team that just mugged us off

    Seems to be the price or the loan is the issue. It’ll seem like pittence if inside the next two years we end up having one of the best young CB’s in Europe. Varane signed for Real after about 20 appearences for Lens. His first season in Madrid he only made about 15 appearences so he probably could have done with a loan that first year

  51. Micheal

    “A dire predicament for Emery and Raul. Benitez, in a similar situation, has resigned.”

    Newcastle have a bigger budget than Arsenal.

  52. Victorious

    Marko

    Inter want Xhaka..how about we get them to entertain a sort of swap? The point is we need at least one world-class CB next season to offset the amount of shit we have in that department

    Spending a large chunk of your budget on a kid you won’t be having anytime soon when there’s such gaping hole at the back isn’t a bright move no matter how you want to make it so

  53. WengerEagle

    Exactly RH, Marko mate I’d be willing to bet good money that you haven’t watched Saliba play a wet 90 mins.

    And you’re acting as if he’s some world class prospect like Varane was [literally every club were going hard for him, RM won out because they’re as prestigious as it gets in football].

    He does nothing to help us next season if we loan him back and even if we don’t, is that smart coaching of an 18 year old coming from abroad, firing him immediately into the fray at a club that is a laughable shambles defensively and saying ‘have at it son’ with a screaming and demanding fanbase scrutinising his every mistake.

    Yeah, that ought to be great for the kid’s development.

    Well how far off can the 25-30m figure being widely reported be? Not like he’s going to cost under 10m is it?

    What do you project our budget is? 100+ million? I mean Jesus we need for the starting line-up alone:

    LB, RB, CB, CM, CM, LM/RM.

  54. Receding Hairline

    “Seems to be the price or the loan is the issue. It’ll seem like pittence if inside the next two years we end up having one of the best young CB’s in Europe. ”

    the price is the initial problem, then the loan just makes it all distasteful, Someone also thought John Stones was going to be top notch. You are talking about a 26m gamble on an 18 year old who will remain with his present club like its something that happens everyday . Real Madrid brought Varane back to Madrid because they wanted to keep an eye on their investment. We should be doing same

  55. WengerEagle

    Middy

    We were on pace to concede 50 PL goals when Holding and Bellerin were both fit.

    It’s why I found the revisionist takes on their defensive impact odd, not to mention the hilarious take that Welbeck through sheer amount of time crocked have morphed into a ‘key’ starting player as per a few on here.

  56. Valentin

    Raphaël Varane joined Real Madrid as a 18 years old after Zidane made personal contact with him to ignore Arsenal overture.

    Samuel Umtiti joined Barcelona at the age of 22. He was a regular at Lyon his initial club. There was never any chance of getting him ahead of Barcelona.

    Rugani joined Juventus at the age of 18 years old, so again no chance of getting him. If you are an Italian defenders and Juventus comes calling you are not going to say no to them.

    Wenger had enough flaws and made enough mistakes, there is no need to add some imaginary mistakes.

  57. MidwestGun

    If our midfield play was better we don’t need 2 more CB’s next season.. I have no problem with the Saliba buy.. that’s assuming it even happens.

    I have a problem with not getting rid of some of the dross.. which would increase our budget.

  58. KAY Boss

    Opinions differ and so will it be till eternity.
    Just don’t know who to believe when it comes to arsenal transfers.
    Waiting patiently for that glamorous signing if there will be any.
    Is Leon Bailey still potent as last 2 seasons, why no mention of him this time around.
    I see the current regime blending youth with experience.
    That is how u plan.

  59. Marko

    You were probably hard on Soyuncu last summer as well, these prospects are never guaranteed to pan out and tbh far less of them make it to the top level than not.

    Nah I dunno if the sounds surrounding Saliba were the same as Caglar. By all accounts the reports around him are Varane esque. I don’t even know why I have to sell the idea of Arsenal signing up an 18 year old CB who’s interesting City, United and Spurs I guarantee you one thing though if he ended up at Spurs those same people complaining about us signing him now would be frothing at the mouth if he went there. It’s just a classic example of an Arsenal fan just never being happy

  60. Batistuta

    I have to echoe what seems like the general consensus…. Absolute idiotic to pay that amount for a CB and then loan him back when we still have Mustafi prodding about our defence…. If he’s old enough, he’s good enough.

    We’re not some super rich club, we’re operating at a much smaller level than teams that can afford to do that. It would make no sense whatsoever

  61. Batistuta

    Marko

    Or that we need an immediate fix for our leaky defence and can’t afford to spend half our budget on someone who won’t play this season….I’m sure there’d be other Salibas knocking around soon

  62. Receding Hairline

    ” It’s just a classic example of an Arsenal fan just never being happy”

    No it’s a classic example of Arsenal fans asking for judicious use of funds. By all means buy the kid if the cowries say he will be the future Maldini, but come back to London with him FFS

  63. Leftsidesanch

    Bat

    As of Jan 2019, Financial service firm Deloitte have listed us as the 9th richest club in the world.

    Funny how Arsenal try to plead the poverty line.

  64. Marko

    Wenger had enough flaws and made enough mistakes, there is no need to add some imaginary mistakes.

    So he couldn’t of signed Varane at 18 for 10 million only Real could do that I suppose. And he couldn’t have attempted to sign Umtiti before he joined Barcelona at 22 we couldn’t have done it when he was 18 or 20? I suppose not. I only mentioned those players cause there were links to them in the past. I’m not making up imaginary mistakes he could have targeted better young prospects over the years instead of the ones he did sign.

  65. WengerEagle

    ‘ It’s just a classic example of an Arsenal fan just never being happy’

    Haha are you having a laugh? Is this satire?

    Amazing how Arsenal supporters aren’t happy with our current predicament isn’t it? Ungrateful bastards.

    What clubs wouldn’t do to get pasted by Leicester, Wolves, Palace and Chelsea in a Final putting up relegation defensive numbers and then spunk half/a third of their entire budget on an 18 year old kid that’s made 16 apps in the French League and potentially won’t even be playing here next season eh?

  66. Micheal

    “As of Jan 2019, Financial service firm Deloitte have listed us as the 9th richest club in the world. ”

    Having the money and spending it are two entirely different things.

  67. Dream10

    If the aim is to build an 85-90 point team in two years, then Torreira doesn’t figure in it as a crucial first XI guy. I’m quite surprised at how many in our fan base overrate how good he is. Believe Torreira and Holding are the two that are most overrated in our squad. We have quite a bit of work to do to build a 85-90pt first XI in two years.

    On the decline (will not be here in two yrs)
    – Sokratis, Koscielny, Mkhitaryan, Özil

    Squad guys in two yrs (Either stay or go)
    – Holding, Guendouzi, Iwobi

    First XI but not part of a 85-90pt side
    – Mustafi, Kolasinac, Torreira, Xhaka, Lacazette

    First XI and part of 85-90pt side in two yrs
    – Leno, Aubameyang

    We should be heavily trying to move Mustafi, Kolasinac, Torreira, Xhaka, Mkhitaryan and Lacazette this summer. With the exception of Mkhitaryan, they’re all in their prime and not genuine CL quality.

    Lacazette and Xhaka are somewhere between CL/EL.

    Mustafi, Kolasinac, Torreira, Mkhitaryan are EL quality.

    We can get very good money for those six.

  68. WengerEagle

    Varane is a poor comparison as well because Real Madrid had two world class centre halves already in Ramos and Pepe and could afford to phase him into the first team gradually. He made just 9 La Liga apps in his first season.

    We’re asking Saliba to come in and lifeguard our defence from the get-go.

  69. Marko

    I’m sure there’d be other Salibas knocking around soon

    What’s the point in when we won’t sign them or if we do the fanbase will still have a problem with it. At this stage I’d prefer he go to Spurs just to witness the flip flop and cries to be more like Dortmund from certain people.

  70. Receding Hairline

    “We’re asking Saliba to come in and lifeguard our defence from the get-go.”

    That scenario would have been better , we are actually asking him to continue “learning” how to be world class at Saint Etienne while we continue leaking goals

  71. MidwestGun

    My issue is… if you know you are on a budget then you have to try a lot harder to move people out come hell or high water to increase your budget… If Saliba and Martinelli are part of a host of signings and clearing out underperformers then it’s not even a discussion. but if that’s the extent of our business then it’s awful. You have to have a happy medium.. between fixing your squad now and buying for the future so far we are nowhere near that.

  72. Valentin

    Dissenter,

    You really have an obsession with me.
    I did not backtrack on what I said. I did not let you change what I said to further your agenda.

    I said that in my view had some of the players been properly introduced during the season, we could have relied on them during the end of the season and the final.
    If Emery had decided that Mustafi nor Lichsteiner nor Jenkinson were fit for purpose, then introducing an U21 right back from January against easier opposition would have make more sense. Then playing him in the final would not have seen such a ridiculous gamble.
    Same thing with Willock. Having Willock replace Özil when he has hardly play was a clear example of bad squad management.

    About the fact that Osei-tutu is joining a 2nd Division German club, I did mentioned in previous posts that the Arsenal has revised his Loan criteria.

    Arsenal will make the final decision, not the player. The player has to be guaranteed starting and playing time. Better to go one division lower avoid the Gnabry precedent where he chose WestBrom with Tony Pulis because it was in the premiership over a guaranteed starting place at a Championship club. The football has to be closer to what Arsenal is actually playing rather than Hoof football of League 1 and Championship clubs. Also Per wants to have a proper relationship with the coaches and clubs, so make sense to suddenly see a lot more loans to German clubs.

  73. Receding Hairline

    Literally every single player Dortmund buy play for them

    It’s surprising you do not see anything wrong in handing a team 26m pounds and walking home to a leaking defense while the asset you just paid for continues helping the team you just handed a tonne of money

    You can have your crystal ball moment of him being a future superstar based on the clubs purportedly after him, but at least acknowledge the fact that if we are going to be held up for 26m pounds the player should be heading back to London with us

  74. WengerEagle

    ‘ cries to be more like Dortmund from certain people.’

    Dortmund have signed Hummels [30], Brandt [23], Hazard [26] and Schulz [26], all prime age players or soon to be in Brandt”s case.

  75. Dream10

    Wenger Eagle

    Yeah I do. He’s doesn’t seem the type to be out of shape. Don’t see his off the ball movement diminishing much.

  76. Marko

    Amazing how Arsenal supporters aren’t happy with our current predicament isn’t it? Ungrateful bastards.

    Totally. Complete fucking morons too if we’re honest. Imagine signing up an 18 year old for 20 odd million instead of waiting for him to be 20 whatever and priced at god knows what. Be more like Dortmund they say but they don’t really mean it. Anyway hopefully it’s not true hopefully he goes elsewhere and we buy another near 30 year old for 17 million instead

  77. Leftsidesanch

    If the fee for Saliba is paid for in instalments (and we have more than £45m) for transfers then I can live with it.

    I do expect to see things heat up in the next week anyway. I suspect that clubs won’t come in for our dross until late in the window where they can ‘underpay’. As long as the suspects are off our books I won’t complain.

  78. Receding Hairline

    Valentin a kid who you believe is good enough to be playing for the Arsenal first team should attract better loan offers and guaranteed playing time than the Bundesliga 2 ..Osei tutu is 20 not 18, we are about to spunk 26m pounds on an 18 year old and leave him on loan while our 20 year old is going on loan in Bundesliga 2

    There is nothing you spin to make them smell nice

    You appear to be the only one who rates Osei Tutu highly, being a natural right back is not enough reasons for him to walk into the team. Freddie would have asked he be kept on if he was as good as you thought ..again he is 20 not 17

  79. Receding Hairline

    “Stoke City have completed the signings of Adam Davies, Nick Powell, Lee Gregory, Jordan Cousins and Liam Lindsay.

    Davies, Powell, Gregory and Cousins were available on a free after their contracts expired, whilst Stoke have paid Barnsley an initial £2million for Lindsay which could rise to £2.5million.”

    This is the team we allowed terrorize us for years in the premier league , we have been a joke for quite sometime now

  80. WengerEagle

    ‘Anyway hopefully it’s not true hopefully he goes elsewhere and we buy another near 30 year old for 17 million instead’

    Ah, the hyperbole is refreshing.

    Yep, I was metaphorically spaffing all over the shop last summer when we signed Sokratis wasn’t I? Top of my wishlist.

    ‘Imagine signing up an 18 year old for 20 odd million instead of waiting for him to be 20 whatever and priced at god knows what.’

    Yeah fuck me, how much do you think Soyuncu will fetch in a year? 50m easy I say.

    Smalling and Phil Jones will probably break the Neymar fee by that guaranteed line of trajectory.

  81. Marko

    It’s surprising you do not see anything wrong in handing a team 26m pounds and walking home to a leaking defense while the asset you just paid for continues helping the team you just handed a tonne of money

    Again we don’t know the price. We don’t even know how it’d be structured. People are just pissing and moaning for the sake of it. It’s actually embarrassing yeah we’re just giving St Etienne half our budget and we’ll see him in a year. Upfront too and for a really shit player too

  82. Dream10

    Wenger Eagle

    I can still see him being a golden boot contender in the PL. However, in two years time, I think he’ll be banging them in China followed by a stint in Serie A.

  83. Valentin

    Marko,

    Wenger did try for Varane. But hé had no chance against the attraction of Real Madrid and Zidane personally coming to see you and guaranteeing to your parent that he is going to look after you.
    Once Zidane came to visit, that was it, the decision had been made. He stayed an extra year to pass his baccalaureat and then join Real Madrid.

    Umtiti was already a starter at his local club Lyon a Champion’s League club. He had no interest in moving until Barcelona made it known they were interested.

    When I look back 5 years ago at the young hungry central defenders, I don’t see a lot that have made the step up from great prospects to great players.

    Holding if he completely recovers from his injuries may become a great defender. Some of today’s great defenders are 28 years old, but most are in their mid thirties.

    That’s not just Arsenal. ManUtd defense is a shambles. Chelsea have still David Luiz as their main man. Vincent Kompany just left ManCity who will then spend the GDP of a small country to buy his replacement.
    Juventus defense is ready to retire. Bayern is getting rid of Hummels, Boateng.

  84. Marko

    Yeah fuck me, how much do you think Soyuncu will fetch in a year? 50m easy I say.

    Dunno why you keep bringing up him. But you’re right you’re absolutely write why even bother to sign up an 18 year old ahead of City, United and Spurs we should just not do it. Leave him. WE I’ll be honest with you I can’t see you ever getting any enjoyment from Arsenal. The criteria of total transparency with regards to the buying and selling of players and the club actually buying a player that you like doesn’t seem likely does it. You’re in for a rough few years mate. Few decades really

  85. HighburyLegend

    “Wenger did try for Varane.”

    You can replace Varane with Zlatan, CR7, Messi, all those whom “he almost signed”.

    Valentin is an akb, no surprise…

  86. Batistuta

    Yea imagine if it was Wenger and Gazidis messing around spending all summer chasing a player we’ll most likely loan back, the absolute Armageddon that this place would be. We have to be honest and actually judge this guys with the same scope Wenger and co got towards the end. No explaining away spending all that money on a player who won’t play for us considering we barely have any good enough CBs

  87. Marko

    You’re right Val there’s really nothing more Wenger could have done. He was basically left with no choice than to sign up Bischoff, Eisfeld, Miyachi, Wellington, Sanogo, Asano, Campbell etc etc.

  88. Dissenter

    Valentin
    You really amuse me but you’re too minuscule to be the focus of an obsession
    However some of the laughable things you’ve written are etched in stone by now so you can’t walk them back. You explicitly stated that Ossei-Tutu should have started in the final – no ifs, ands or buts.

    The kid is so good that only Bochum will take him on loan. The same player you used as a cudgel all season long.

  89. Marko

    Osei Tutu is 20 and has never made a senior debut at Arsenal and has now been loaned to a team in division two in Germany. Just assume that he’s not good enough in the slightest. At a time when German clubs are queuing up for young English players to end up at Bochum is embarrassing really.

  90. Cesc Appeal

    ‘No explaining away spending all that money on a player who won’t play for us considering we barely have any good enough CBs’

    Only needs explaining away if we’ve fucked up by August.

    Great signing. This is exactly the type of deal fans would be winging about us not doing if City or Spurs did it and he arrived there looking a real prospect. ‘Why didn’t Arsenal sign him for £26 Million? He’s worth £60 Million now…these are the types of deals we should be doing’.

    Arsenal probably don’t want to loan him back, in fact it seems highly likely they’ve tried not to, but St Etienne won’t budget…enter City or Spurs willing to loan him back.

    The rumour is Arsenal have bid for Izzo as well today, it is looking like our budget may be larger than people thought or we’re selling people no one knows about yet.

    You add Saliba and Tierney and you’ve potentially got your defence sorted for the next decade, even more so if Holding develops this season as he was last season.

    Instead of chasing the game every summer with middle of the road CB purchases of £25-35 Million for 22-26 year old players who are various shades of ‘okay/meh/crap’ Arsenal are trying to get them before they turn into good players…isn’t that what literally every single Arsenal fan asked for?

  91. Marc

    Problem on here with some is you moan no matter what Arsenal do. Sign a young highly rated defender and loan him back (assuming that does happen) and the toys go flying. Same player gets signed by Tottenham and loaned back and look at their ambition yada yada yada.

    The very fact that the press is reporting that we’ve agreed personal terms with this player – something completely illegal before you’ve agreed a fee with the club should be enough to tell everyone to see what actually happens.

  92. WengerEagle

    You keep skirting around the question Marko, what do you suspect that our budget is and what’s the plan for our shambolic defence next season if we don’t bring Saliba home with us?

    If you see us bringing in Tierney and Saliba in addition to about 6 players then fair enough, wish that I shared your blind faith.

    You’re the one who was most vocal on here that it was all down to how pathetic the players were in the business end of the season and absolved Emery from taking blame. Ramsey has left the building since then too, adding yet another player that we need.

  93. MidwestGun

    No explaining away spending all that money on a player who won’t play for us considering we barely have any good enough CBs
    ________
    Bat-
    Not saying I completely agree with strategy but it’s pretty clear the explanation is that we are focusing on youth and building for the future. We are being linked to almost every hot youth prospect the latest being Bilel Hassaini. Couple that along with promoting Freddie and bringing in Edu and you can see that part of the plan pretty clearly. It goes back to what you and I were discussing before though about Arsenal fans having patience not sure that is a thing.

  94. Freddie Ljungberg

    Can’t imagine any deal that requires us to loan Saliba back will be front heavy with the payment, probably a small sum now and the majority of the fee next summer, nothing that should affect our “war chest” much this window.

    I have no problem with signing up a potentially world class CB for the future, but we need to bring in 1 CB for the now as well. Sok, Holding, new CB, Mavro should be enough if we don’t play 3 at the back which we probably won’t if we can get some decent fullbacks in. Bielik can cover at CB as well.

    Absolutely vital we do something about our midfield too though or we’re going to keep leaking goals and lack flair/creativity. If we rock up with Xhaka and Ozil as starters next season we can just write off the whole thing.

  95. Marko

    ‘Why didn’t Arsenal sign him for £26 Million? He’s worth £60 Million now…these are the types of deals we should be doing’.

    Pretty much. You could also add in wah wah why don’t we have a plan wah why can’t we be more like Dortmund wah.

  96. Marc

    Marko

    You can also change Dortmund for any of a dozen clubs who are the current darlings of the “anything Arsenal do is wrong club”

  97. Batistuta

    Mid

    Let’s just hope we do actually get in CBs who’ll put on the red and white immediately. GFFN are saying St Etienne won’t budge about the whole loaning him back.

    Again if we go into the new season without any defensive reinforcements because we’ve loaned out the only one we managed to get, then it would all be pointless and no one would have the right to moan if our results don’t improve. We’ll see though

  98. Marko

    You keep skirting around the question Marko, what do you suspect that our budget is and what’s the plan for our shambolic defence next season if we don’t bring Saliba home with us?

    Oh there was a question in there? Eh I suspect that our budget is more than 40 million and I don’t know what the plan is with regards to our defence. I’ll point out though that you don’t know either but it hasn’t stopped you complaining about us potentially signing up a highly regarded 18 year old. You’re basically preemptive complaining.

  99. WengerEagle

    ‘You could also add in wah wah why don’t we have a plan wah why can’t we be more like Dortmund wah.’

    You miss the post pointing out that Dortmund this summer have signed Hummels, Brandt, Schulz and Hazard?

  100. Batistuta

    Also I think people who keep saying oh chill let’s see how the window goes forget a large number of Arsenal fans have PTSD with the transfer window…. 2015 still rings around in our minds so maybe just allow people vent their anger and frustration without making them seem like they’re not genuine reasons to be

  101. Marko

    You’re the one who was most vocal on here that it was all down to how pathetic the players were in the business end of the season and absolved Emery from taking blame.

    Good point I guess. Anyway the Saliba and Tierney signings look like the club is actively looking at the future and that’s a good thing I think.

  102. Marko

    You miss the post pointing out that Dortmund this summer have signed Hummels, Brandt, Schulz and Hazard?

    Yeah but we’re year two into copying the Dortmund playbook it’s going to take time.

  103. Marc

    Baty

    We have an entirely new management set up compared to 2015 so when people say let’s wait and see it’s because the current set up does not have a PTR in going the entire summer and then buying a three legged donkey.

  104. WengerEagle

    CA

    Have you watched Saliba play meaningful minutes? Not having a dig but genuinely find it strange people are saying with such conviction that this kid is an up and coming defensive colossus when he’s made 13 starts in Ligue 1.

    26m to 60m mark up? Yeah, that’s assuming that he comes in and absolutely smashes it out of the park which is incredibly unlikely to happen in his first season overseas as an 18 year old with a handful of first team apps behind him.

    We were hearing similar things about Guendouzi when he had a decent couple of games back last year and how he’d be worth 50m by seasons end, look how that turned out.

    ‘isn’t that what literally every single Arsenal fan asked for?’

    Well, no. In an ideal world yes it would be great to sign this lad and let him develop back in France for a year but when you look at the state of the squad and how many players are needed it’s just not going to be feasible if we spend 40+ million on Tierney and Saliba especially seeing as how we’ve moved nobody on as of yet and it’s looking silent on that front.

    Blow it up and build for the future? Not a terrible option tbh but can’t imagine that bodes well for Emery.

  105. Marko

    Bati Arsene Wenger is gone long gone. The days of predicting a bad transfer window and being right are over. Not saying that the new guys are infallible or deserving of total trust just yet but they’re far more active than the previous regime. I would think that Saliba is such an obvious promising sign of the potential/improvement that we’re making in the transfer market. Imagine Arsene Wenger signing up an 18 year old CB who’s interesting City United and Spurs? Yeah I can’t see it either. Not to mention signing up a highly regarded 22 year old LB no he was more interested in Andre Santos and Kolasinac.

  106. MidwestGun

    Bat-
    Yep.. I got no problem with people venting.. they definitely have cause. Silly small budget(allegedly), focus on youth players who won’t help us now, and inability to move out some old players and Wenger/ Gazidis ptsd ,along with end of season collapse. All good enough reasons for me to be concerned.

  107. China1

    Cesc I’m all for buying for the future and all that but we are going to end up starting next season with mustafi and koscielny still in the squad, and very possibly mustafi in the starting 11

    It’s lovely to imagine that saliba turns out a fabulous long term signing but next season is going down the absolute pan if we are playing mustafi every week. That simple

    We play holding – ok fine by me – but i have a nagging feeling he is going to be injury prone and if he is we will be left with old man kozzer and an absolutely dismal German battling it out

    We need our great new CB to be playing. We can’t flush another season down the toilet on a very expensive dream that a player who will join us in the future is going to save us. Who will save us this season bro?

  108. Marko

    We were hearing similar things about Guendouzi when he had a decent couple of games back last year and how he’d be worth 50m by seasons end, look how that turned out.

    Actually love this comment. Worth noting that…he could probably do with being on loan somewhere for a season

  109. Dissenter

    Batistuta
    Have you considered the fact that our budget may not be as low as is being reported?
    We may have put that number out there to make negotiations with selling clubs easier [or more awkward]. Don’t forget that we are the same club with the highest bank balance on the planet.

  110. terraloon

    Dissenter

    If it’s not written in Latin why are you struggling to read what it says? Or did you just plan to ignore this bit?

    “This estimated £88m of residual cash is balanced by a further £92m of net future payments still due on players in 19/20 and beyond.”

    So it doesn’t remotely say there is £88 million available.

    Next you say this

    …sorry mate but this is quality BS.
    First you say there is no money, then you say… ‘even if”…which is it?
    This is money earned already, idling away, not a give away from anybody.
    Why do you people write all this stuff as facts?How much does Liverpool have stashed away.

    What planet are you on?

    My point is that AST clearly detail why some mistakingly think there is a huge amount of cash available . My words were clear that EVEN if there were a chunk of money in reserve if you spent it would have a negative impact as far as FFP is concerned.

    Or put another way those reserves if spent would not be ignored in the accounts , I personally think they should be but that’s not how FFP as currently in place works

  111. Marc

    I actually think the only thing some on here are more upset about than Arsenal not spending is that the Spud’s haven’t blown a shit load of cash either – then they’d have even more reason to complain.

  112. Marko

    No one’s saying that you can’t vent I’m just having a problem with an Arsenal fan having a problem specifically with the Saliba deal. The upside is so obvious it’s literally the kind of move that we should be doing and should have been doing years ago. And yet people are complaining about it they’re only thinking here and now but they’ll complain later about us not thinking of the future. No surprise that Spurs are interested in him they’ve a decent track record of defensive signings the last few years.

  113. WengerEagle

    Ah yes, anyone that’s not bowled over with us likely heading into next season with Mustafi, AMN, one of Ozil/Miki and Xhaka still in the XI must be Spud fans, of course.

    Funny how some have became superfans that accuse anyone criticising the club’s performance on the pitch and in the market of being Spurs or Chav supporters when they’d be ripping the old regime for a similar output.

  114. WengerEagle

    ‘And yet people are complaining about it they’re only thinking here and now but they’ll complain later about us not thinking of the future. ‘

    Mate we literally need 5-6 first team signings, what part of that are you struggling with?

    This isn’t the Arsenal side of 2010/11 just missing a few pieces.

  115. MidwestGun

    Well besides Man U.. out of the top 6 we have the most work to do.. to me Pool, City and Spuds could pretty much do nothing and still be ahead of us by miles. They all have saleable assets as well if they wanted to. So I factor that in to my complaining about inactivity.

  116. Marko

    I’m well aware of what we need WE but that shouldn’t mean that we don’t think about the future. I think people are complaining because they think that we’re about to waste half our budget on someone we’ll see in a years time. Yeah I wouldn’t even bother trying to explain how wrong those people are.

  117. Marc

    WE

    If that’s directed at me I’ve been vocal about wanting certain players out. I’d love to see Ozil go but I can’t see it this summer, Mikki not sure about but the two I want to see gone most of all are Xhaka and Mustafi.

    My previous comment was about the predilection of some posters on here who look to find fault with anything. There are genuinely people of here who would complain about a blowjob from a supermodel.

  118. Marc

    “Mate we literally need 5-6 first team signings, what part of that are you struggling with?”

    What part are you struggling with – the fact that the market isn’t moving yet, that we have a seriously impeded budget or the fact that we’re not going to get this done in one summer?

  119. WengerEagle

    I’d argue that we have more to do than United.

    Yes we finished above them but they have more pieces that they can sell off. Pogba alone would bring in 100m and then the likes of Martial, Rashford, Lukaku, De Gea on top of that.

    Even Alexis isn’t doing his value any harm by playing a stormer at the Copa America, I would be surprised to see him there next season even with the wage problem because unlike Ozil he seems a lad that lives for his football.

    Then you also remember that they are United, they will always spend big and be a relevant big player in the market.

  120. Marko

    There are genuinely people of here who would complain about a blowjob from a supermodel.

    I can see that. What’s she doing that for when my nipples need pinching and my arsehole wants a licking. Oh and carass my head and tell me everything’s going to be alright

  121. MidwestGun

    Pffft everyone knows Supermodels are shit at Blowies….. because they have never had to work for anything sexually in their lives. Give me a closing time girl any day. 😀

  122. Marko

    We do need to do more work than United. Here look I’d like it if Saliba was coming in to do a job next season but I’ll accept it if it means he comes in next season. To me his signing is a serious signal of intent. It means going forward that when we’re linked with highly regarded teenagers that we have an actual chance of signing up the highly regarded teenager. It also shows that we are in fact scouting for young talent. It’s a good sign I think going forward even if we won’t feel the benefits of it for years to come

  123. WengerEagle

    Marc

    Forget a year, that’s more like a 3-5 year plan. Incrementally adding a couple of pieces each summer, Aubameyang will only get older as will Lacazette and then we’ll need to replace them too.

    Meanwhile our rivals aren’t going to standstill. City and Liverpool will keep on adding players and improving and you’d expect Spurs and United won’t rest on their laurels either with Spurs already having a strong side and United will keep chucking money at it until they get it right.