Arsenal and Darren Burgess call it quits

by & filed under News Review.

Shad, waits in the wings

There it is… Darren Burgess has left the building after 18 months in charge (well, since he actually joined up in London).

This is dramatic, make no mistake about it. A head of performance can’t really be judged on his body of work after such a short space of time, especially when there’s been a monumental managerial shift.

So whatever has gone on behind the scenes, it can’t have been pretty.

Still, that gives Arsenal a fresh opportunity to hire in someone elite or source from within. There are lots of incredible fitness people in the world of sport at the moment. Many clubs keeping players fit in high octane environments. Maybe Huss could shout up his boys at Sky for some reccos? JUST A JOKE OK.

I wasn’t sure about the hire in the first place, it seemed an odd addition considering the progress we’d made with injuries and general fitness… and it was dictated by Wenger in his dying days.

‘Burgess, who was handpicked by Arsenal coach Arsene Wenger, will commence his new role in July.’

3 weeks ago, Wenger hadn’t let anyone at the club know his decision to stay on. 3 weeks later, he’s signed a Performance Director. How did that happen? How many people did he interview? Who spoke to him? Where did Wenger get his time to do his due diligence? How are we sure this guy is the best candidate in the world?

The biggest question I have here is – what issue is Wenger solving with this hire?

To give perspective, we’ll have 6 fitness people at the club. Arsenal signed a guy called Shad Forsythe – after years of Wenger being in denial there was a problem with injuries – in 2014. Since then, our players are suffering less soft tissue injuries in spite of a manager who still loves to overplay his team and ignore the realities of the modern game.

The American has been an unsung sensation. Not just that, he’s worked at Bayern Munich and won things. He also oversaw one of the most impressive World Cup wins ever, taking the German national team to a final in some of the most aggressive weather conditions a European team could face (Amy Lawrence gives a rundown here).

As far as I can see, Mr Burgess has a less accomplished resume. His previous experience in the Premier League was working under Hodgson, Rodgers and Dalglish.

In my opinion, one that is far from expert, Shad Forsythe had come into the club and obliterated our soft tissue injuries like Wellington Silva would take down pizzas. The exGermany man helped his then team navigate one of the hottest and most humid World Cups of all time in destructive fashion. That really was some achievement, European teams traditionally doing very badly in South America.

The fact Burgess was brought in on a similar job title had disaster written all over it. A typically weak move by Ivan Gazidis… bring people in and let them work it out for themselves, he repeated the feat when he had Sven and Raul in on equal footing.

Burgess also made some odd decisions, firing Colin Lewin looked like a powerplay and felt very unArsenal. Moving on good people that have been at the club through the good times and the bad can be very damaging to the culture, it can also belie managerial insecurity. Can’t imagine that went down well.

Then Ivan hired in Unai Emery, and let the Spaniard bring in his own S&C coach (weak move again)… pretty sure that wasn’t approved by Burgess, because why would he allow a manager to bring in that level of expertise for a subject he’s probably not a world leader in… especially if you already have an S&C person employed.

His first full season in charge didn’t look great… which can’t all be on him per my last paragraph, but clearly something was up, especially around Christmas/New Year when injuries racked up and we looked dead on the field.

I would imagine Shad F is having a serious rethink about that Milan move now… club would be mad not to consider him for the vacant position, but we’ll see. Living in Milan has to be pretty damn elite.

Anyway, the Burgess Arsenal chapter is shut… though I highly doubt that’s the story over. No one leaves Arsenal without a job to go to… Arsenal is just too fucking good to ditch after such a short space of time, so we’ll see what comes of it over the next few weeks.

… but, before we go, this is Darren’s farewell totes inspo quote.




315 Responses to “Arsenal and Darren Burgess call it quits”

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  1. Tony

    Stevie Ray – brilliant.

    Prefer Jef Healy, though, and used the below track up in the Thai mountains again with a drone and truck/jeep and pillion rider based cameras with my MC club running along a narrow ridge at 3000+ feet followed by The Chain by Fleetwood Mac.

    I worked with Albert Collins in the UK, which I think was his last UK tour. The guy had a 60 feet guitar lead and would jump down off stage and wander while playing – nightmare for the out front engineer.

    If memory serve me right, he had Terry Williams from Dire Straits on drums and Nick Lowe’s bass player, but that was around 40 years ago, so the memory is foggy.

    Collins was a big influence on Hendrix.

    Gary Clark Jnr is a great modern day blues guy.

    Also can’t get enough of Lindsey Buckingham

    Made a MC ride video in Bali with a dozen or so riders and used the above track (longer extended live version) for the decent of the twin volcanos. Lost a drone when it went out of range but fortunately it went back to its point of take off origin.

    The Thai drone pilot kept screaming “U-Turn” when we lost the drone, which consequently became his moniker for then and the future.

    Was a great 7-day ride and that day the guys had 11 beer stops on the 90km day’s ride.

    Have you checked out ‘On the Blue Side’ CD by Dave Maniketti:

    Used a couple of his tracks on ride videos – oddly enough used this track up in Doi Mae Salon.

    Happy days!

  2. MidwestGun

    Albert Collins .. I saw .. saw most of the greats if they were still alive. Used to go to Chicago Blues fest every year back then in the 80 and 90’s. So Buddy Guy, Bo Diddly,Koko Taylor, BB King, James Cotton, Professor Long hair. etc..

    Best slide Blues guitar player I ever saw live though was Johnny Winter. Dude was unreal and played with his eyes closed. No idea how he did it.

    Anyhow for me Muddy Waters was still the king… but I missed him live… died slightly before my time.. Great CD though… if you can find it.. “Hard Again”… by Muddy. Johnny Winter plays in his band on that one, .

  3. Tony


    Johnny Winter also crazy good – so many out there.

    Do you play?

    My instrument is the mixing desk but aways regret not learning to play guitar, but both my daughter and son play guitar and piano.

    The cinema I’m building at home will also double up as a song writing studio for them and other muso friends.

    Got some serious gear going into that. 10,000 watts with 17 speakers and 19 amplification channels. It’s not the volume but the quality of the sound I’m after both for movies and music.

    Still a lot fun to be had before I meet my maker.

    The VP of my MC club plays a mean guitar similar to Nils Lofgren.

    Bob Weston was a good friend and a big loss to the music industry. First worked with him with Murray head.

    You’re a lucky man – not so many alive these days.

  4. Ishola70

    So we will know in a couple of hours whether Unai will be cooked by Christmas.

    Hope it’s not too brutal for him. Poor sod.

  5. Graham62

    FFP is a joke!

    How can you have Finances that are fair when RM can go out and splash close to £300m on players?

  6. Champagne Charlie


    Both fullbacks are in that conversation which is praise enough. I think Marcelo is maybe better placed than Dani Alves, but they’re in proper company there. Cafu was a force, Roberto Carlos too but seemed more short-lived.

    None of this world 33 shite 😂

  7. Champagne Charlie

    Madrid can splash that money for a couple of reasons.

    1) they earn mega money
    2) they sell mega players

    Their activity isnt likely to be 350 mil worth of talent ADDED, they’re going to get selling in the next fortnight.

  8. Leedsgunner

    It was heavily hinted at that one of the reasons why Monchi turned down the job was because he saw our summer plans were well underway… and when Monchi rejected us the club assured us that he wasn’t strictly necessary… because we were well prepared for the window.

    Well… we’re a month into the window and no one has been bought or sold.

    I’m tired of excuses. Time to deliver results.

  9. Thank you and goodnight.

    Really couldn’t give a fuck about pre season or even next season. We’ll struggle to make top 10 this year. But it does show how bad the club has been run and managed in the last 10 years, wengers statue should be burnt, because of him and that slimy snake gazidis, we are 10 years or more from getting anywhere near challenging for major honours. I mean carrasco? Who the fuck is he. Praet, oooh, a dollop of jizz just came out with that mega signing, amazing signings.

  10. HighburyLegend

    “because of him […] we are 10 years or more from getting anywhere near challenging for major honours”

    FFS, you’re gonna piss off Pierre… (lol)

  11. Champagne Charlie


    How are we 10 years from anything when Liverpool managed to turn 8th into 97 points within a few years?

    Total hyperbole.

    10 years if the CURRENT guys are hopeless, sure. But if they’re any good we should be challenging for the title inside 5 years.

  12. CG


    “””””The more and more posters hark on about AW- the more and more the New Regime are exposed for their ineptitude and inadequacies. They go hand in hand”””””

    Raul has been at AFC for 18 months.

    Raul so ruthless with Burgess and Co. at the end of the season review.

    And yet so lax with his puppet Emery

    (Last 45 mins of the last season.We let in 4 goals.)

    Fixtures out today.

    If it’s a toughie- expect a tanking…

    Tick Tock

  13. Moray

    CG, the fixtures don’t matter too much to us as we will screw up again at the end of the season, whoever we are playing, unless we hire in some balls into this side.

  14. HighburyLegend


    (F*cking moron…)

  15. R.S.P.C.Arsenal

    I think that selling chambers will be an upson moment….

    In emery’s management…

    Maybe let Freddie loose on training him…

    Could reap benefits

  16. CG


    I am in particular – will be looking at the last 8 games…..
    They way we are going under this mob- uncharted waters..

    It could be a battle of survival.

    Eg. Are we capable of getting points at a full house Villa Park ? Or Carrow Rd?

    I am looking at Brighton( who we failed to beat twice last season) , Saints, Newcastle fixtures- plus obviously the 3 that come up.

    I am hearing the Massage Man has also been culled.

    The morale around the place must be the lowest since the fag end days of the Billy Wright Time.
    (Crowds plummeted to sub 5000.)

    If people think- I am being over dramatic.
    We have lost 50% of our last 10 games.

  17. Ishola70

    Pretty tough for Unai.

    Liverpool, Man Utd and Leicester away up to beginning of November.

    Don’t think we will be seeing another early season unbeaten run this time

  18. R.S.P.C.Arsenal

    Look a tough start is best

    A week end last season killed us so probably what we need….good tough start

  19. Ishola70

    Best get their skates on and delve into that transfer market and improve that first XI or else will be playing catch up most probably just for top four after Christmas.

  20. Thank you and goodnight.

    @Champagne Charlie

    Do you honestly have faith that the imbeciles running Arsenal will get it right? They haven’t got it right for last 10 years so why should that change now. They allowed that megolamaniac wenger to bring this club to its knees, buying dross, over paying etc etc.
    Also if wenger was so amazing how comes no one bar Fulham have been in for him. Fucking prick should be kicked around the Emirates pitch for 90 minutes. Fucking hate that guy

  21. Graham62


    I understand how it works.

    RM and Barcelona are more than just football clubs.

    State funded comes to mind

  22. Thank you and goodnight.

    We have people on here begging Enery to be sacked and install someone else. Whether we’re based in London or not, what top class manager will accept the job? No one wants the job. A club with no ambition, no desire, no money, even the new clubs promoted will have more money to spend than us. This club is a fucking joke from top to bottom. Any decent manager coming in will need at least 200m to spend just to get us back near the top. Last season if laca or auba had got injured we would of barely squeaked in to the top 10

  23. Champagne Charlie

    “Do you honestly have faith that the imbeciles running Arsenal will get it right? They haven’t got it right for last 10 years“

    The faces are different, the two you blame for the next 10 years have long left the building. Gazidis and Wenger are an irrelevance moving forward.

    Liverpool were 8th with a vision landing Klopp.

    At worst we we’re flirting with top 4.

    No I don’t particularly have faith in the current crop, but that has no bearing on the previous lot at all. Just a new manner of incompetent of early signs are to go by. But they’ve got this summer to change that tact. The entire project is limited with Emery though, he’s got a glass ceiling as far as I’m concerned and you won’t witness him lifting a PL title.

  24. Graham62


    Ah, a man after my own heart.

    “Fudging prick should be kicked around the Emirates pitch for 90 minutes”

    I’d pay to come and watch that game.

  25. Thank you and goodnight.

    @Champagne Charlie

    I totally agree with you about emery. He isn’t the man to drive us forward. But no one of any note would want to manage us with fuck all money and a club from the youths up to first team, rotten to the core. Wenger and gazidis left this club in absolute meltdown. Seriously I would glady kick both those scum around the Emirates for 90 mins, followed by 30 min extra time then penalties.

  26. R.S.P.C.Arsenal

    So will Saliba n uppercanno be the answers to our dodgy defensive .?

    Thing is why have we nots sold yet.

    Could it be cos some completions are still ongoing … I’m guessing that mustafi is at the World Cup in France … and some on holiday…

  27. Champagne Charlie


    Do me a favour and list who you consider a world class manager, or any manager you think could take us to challenging for the prem.

    Then ask if they’d do that at a massive London club with all the modern trimmings, earning circa £6 million a year or more depending on their CV.

    Put short, it’s absolute fantasy that Arsenal are a poverty hire. We’re in the next group down from maybe 6/7 mega clubs, so arguably a top 10 destination for a manager, almost certainly a top 15.

  28. Graham62

    Two things.

    1. Wenger and Gazidis may be an irrelevance moving forward but, because of their gross mismanagement and negligence towards the club and its fans, the consequences will be felt for years to come.

    2.”Liverpool were 8th, with a vision landing Klopp” but already had a sound ownership base who were willing and able to give Kloop 100% support. Our lot, the Owner/BoD/ Wenger and Gazidis had no vision. Why? Because our pathetic Manager was more concerned with satisfying his own needs rather than push for change.

    Shite, any manager with an ounce of fight and determination can go to his superiors and kick up a constructive and well thoughtout fuss. Not our spineless Messiah though.

    Selfish bastard!

  29. Dark Hei


    We are a poverty club because Stan wants to cut costs.

    Didn’t you receive the memo.

    The deal is that as long as the ENGLISH League grows in value, Arsenal, one of the 20 clubs, will grow in value as well. By default.

    Don’t do anything risky. Just stay in the black.

  30. Champagne Charlie

    “Wenger and Gazidis may be an irrelevance moving forward but, because of their gross mismanagement and negligence towards the club and its fans, the consequences will be felt for years to come.“

    Absolute nonsense. Liverpool were worse off than Arsenal on the football side than we were left last season. This dire narrative has one goal, and that’s to harp back to a final criticism of Wenger, little else.

    All the technical faces are new or operating under a different remit so we shall see how that navigates us from now. But absolutely no reason not to assume with good leadership and management we won’t be challenging with a few seasons.

    The only reason we won’t see sufficient progression in the next few years is the faces at the club NOW. The previous ones are responsible for where we have started our new chapter, and that’s top 4 challengers.

    So spare me the protracted drama about the ‘mess Wenger and Gazidis left us in’. They didn’t leave us as well as the should’ve, but this ‘doomed for years’ crap is bridge after bridge too far.

    If you rate him that high good for you, I don’t share that view. Like I say, name a manager you think capable of moving the needle here and then tell me why they wouldn’t come on board?

  31. Thank you and goodnight.

    Take Sanogo for example. Now how many of us who saw So no goals play his first game, realise just how bad he was? Probably all of us. Yet the man paid 10million a year and who has made 10 trillion substitutions took 2 years to realise he was shit.

  32. Champagne Charlie

    Dark hei

    I’m far from Stan’s biggest fan, but I’m not talking poverty in terms of our spending. I was talking in terms of us as a hire for prospective managers.

    This baseless talk of us not being able to bring a top manager on board is so delusional. I can accept an argument that we’re not selling ourselves well, but that’s a separate issue to having the means to draw in top talent. We absolutely do.

  33. Thank you and goodnight.

    Compare the team wenger inherited to the team he left. Sorry Champagne but everything we are seeing now is All on wenger, gazidis and kroenke.
    What other top class manager spouts shit like, ‘I didn’t want to buy him because he would of stunted growth of so and so’. Utter fucking horseshit. If I’m a winger and I see they are buying some shit hot winger, that would motivate me not kill me. Motivate me to try harder and retain my place. If it ‘kills’ me, then I’m not the player for the club. That’s why we are so weak and lilly livered from the youths through to the first team as there was no accountability. No matter how shit you are you’ll always retain your place.

  34. Champagne Charlie


    I don’t need to compare this team to the one Wenger inherited (which was gash btw), that’s not what’s being challenged.

    I’m challenging your idea we’re screwed for the next 10 years because of Wenger and Gazidis. It’s total rubbish and the realities of that are all too clear when you glance at Liverpool recently.

    They were 8th cluttered with pony players, and within 4 years they’ve been in a EL final, two CL finals, and challenged for the league against arguably the best PL side ever seen.

    Why on earth would we be so hard up for it to take us 10 years to do emulate what they’ve done in 4?

    The infrastructure is there, the new hires all across the board are there, there’s enough finance and expendable assets there to facilitate change a squad turnover. What Wenger and Gazidis did was leave us challenging for top 4 with an imbalanced squad VS challenging for the league with a well balanced squad. You’re getting creative to suggest anything else.

  35. invincible

    No use in ranting about people in Arsenal hierarchy getting anything right. The moment Kroenke purchased the Club, we in Highbury new that the best days of the Club were over. Time has proved this. Kroenke is not going to sack Emery, as Raul is a Spaniard and will not allow that to happen. As for Vinay Venkktesha, he will move any way. No top player or manager is interested in this Club, and Kroenke does not want wins, but want to Club ticking in the mid-table. That is the reality and hence, rants will not help. Highbury days of glory are well and truly in the very distant past. Like it or lump it.

  36. Thank you and goodnight.

    : David Seaman, Lee Dixon, Tony Adams, Steve Bould, Martin Keown, Nigel Winterburn, Paul Merson, David Platt, Patrick Vieira, John Hartson, Ian Wright.

    Take viera out this was the team wenger inherited.

    Cech, kos, mustafi, bellerin, Montreal, iwobi, Ramsey, ozil, mikhi, laca, auba

    That’s the team emery inherited. Not one of the defenders would of replaced the defenders wenger inherited.

    The team wenger inherited would smash wengers last team 5 or 8 nil.

  37. Champagne Charlie


    Again, the team Wenger inherited vs the one he left is of no relevance to what’s being discussed.

    What you said was Wenger and Gazidis are to blame for us being in the shit for the next 10 years. Which is rubbish.

    Still waiting on the list of top managers you think have the ability to eventually make us title challengers? Are you going to offer up some names?

  38. Thank you and goodnight.

    The only player in wengers last game that would of made his first squad he picked in his first game would be Ramsey. I’d rather have John Hartson and Wrighty up front,than laca and auba.

    Also mustnt forget Dennis Bergkamp who wenger inherited as well. Yep your right Champagne Charlie, the team wenger inherited were really really gash. But the one he left, all stars.

  39. Thank you and goodnight.

    Wenger and gazidis are to blame for the state we are in. And I think if we were to have a vote on here as to who we think is responsible for the state we’re in, I reckon at least 80percent would agree with me.

  40. Champagne Charlie

    “Yep your right Champagne Charlie, the team wenger inherited were really really gash. But the one he left, all stars.“

    This is where I lose any patience and respect for you. You’ve no ability to debate what’s being discussed so you’re inventing another argument altogether, but also inventing my apparent stance on that.

    I never once said this side are all stars, I actually stated the following just 20 mins ago:

    “What Wenger and Gazidis did was leave us challenging for top 4 with an imbalanced squad VS challenging for the league with a well balanced squad. You’re getting creative to suggest anything else.”

  41. Champagne Charlie


    Yea and if I went on an alt-right page and asked if whites were the best race I reckon the numbers would be overwhelmingly in favour too.

    Doesn’t make it correct.

  42. Thank you and goodnight.

    @Champagne Charlie

    There is no wc manager out their who could make us champions. Not with the current set up at arsenal or with the lack of funds. Harry Potter is probably the only one who could turn this Arsenal around

  43. Graham62

    Oh shite,some posters on here are just so naive.

    As usual CC you look at things in far too much detail.

    Liverpool had a proactive ownership in place well before Klopp arrived. Their philosophies and mindset under Rodgers and even Hodgson, was to move the club forward. All they needed was the catalyst(Klopp) to fulfill their goals.

    We never had those beliefs and the intensity to move forward. We all know that Kroenke needs a frigging kick up the backside but Wenger and Gazidis were not prepared to rock the boat. Too consumed with their own selfish needs and pathetic values.

    Once again CC , you see the Wenger criticism as an inconvenience, something that is history and that has absolutely no significance to our future progression.

    Unfortunately, in any sphere of management, if you value your own needs to that of the body you are representing, the consequences can be catastrophic.

    Whoever we got into the club after Wenger( and IG ) were going to confront monumental difficulties, all caused by their predeccesors lack of due care and deligence.

  44. Champagne Charlie


    Unless you’ve missed the memo, the entire structure of the club has been augmented to a modern standard. The face behind the scenes are in large, different. The key players, different.

    I’m not unaware that Liverpool had their leadership in place pre-Klopp. I’m stating the quite clear reality that when Klopp arrived the squad was shit, and the funds were low.

    What’s it like are Arsenal?…….oh that’s right.

    Meanwhile in 4 years they’ve had a EL final, two Cl finals, and challenged arguably the best PL side ever. But apparently I’ve to yield to the idea we won’t see anything at Arsenal for a decade ‘because of Wenger and Gazidis’.

    Cool story

  45. invincible

    YES Wenger took the Club out of top4 in his last years. But then, Emery has been there for a season and all he had to do was to get one more home or away win. That was not a tall order. He is not going anywhere, neither is Raul. Kroneke seems to be satisfied as the club is in the PL. I cannot see the club in top4 at least for a few years and not before Spuds win the PL. That is the truth.

  46. Cesc Appeal

    After all the despondency with losing commercial partners last week Arsenal have added VBet already and apparently Gatorade will be coming back.

    Also, a long serving massage therapist has been sacked apparently. Along with Burgess being sacked looks as if fitness and conditioning is getting an overhaul this summer.

    With regards to transfers I think people need to be patient, the market hasn’t kicked off yet, you cannot compare us to Madrid who have bundles of cash and also assets to sell to recoup.

    Arsenal have to make every penny count and by the sounds of things we have at least 2 targets in each position, plus we’re trying to sell low value players on disproportionately high wages…it’s a careful balancing act to make sure you have the money and you get the right player.

    Once our load is shot it’s shot.

  47. Jamie

    So the leaked fixture list a few posted yesterday where we were playing Palace away on day 1 was gash then. Strange. Newsnow is always bang on the money. You know, with all the credible articles floating around detailing why this member of staff or that player was pushed out or hired.

  48. Pierre

    thank you and goodnight.June 13, 2019 10:57:01
    “@Graham62Excellently put sir. In any other job, wenger and gazidis would of been fired years ago”

    Surely you are now confirming that it is kronke’s fault for our present situation as he is the one person who could have changed things.

  49. Thank you and goodnight.


    I’ve e always said that wanker kroenke is the Real problem at the club. Everyone could see that wenger was finished 10 plus years ago, kroenke allowed him to remain in his job. Wenger is so shit that 15 months on from getting the tin tack at Arsenal, only Fulham were interested in him.

  50. Thank you and goodnight.

    That still doesn’t excuse fact wenger and gazidis played a huge part in our downfall as well. Losing out on big money for sanchez and Ramsey, over paying average players, scouting network that couldn’t scout etc etc etc. Yes kroenke should of fired them years ago, plus him being the owner the buck stops with him. But wenger and gazidis were both complicit in the downfall as well

  51. Cesc Appeal

    Arsenal are apparently signing Schubert, a 21 year old GK from Dynamo Dresden on a free to then loan out straight away.

    Smart, free, potential successor/challenger to Leno in a couple of season or we sell on for profit. Well thought of GK.

    Interesting scouting happening.

  52. Leedsgunner

    With our present mentality frail as it is, I’m afraid to ask where we’re going to be after the first 10 games…

    Very very tough start.

  53. Batistuta

    Say the same thing all day every day doesn’t and won’t take away the fact that Arsenal football club even in 2019 are on the worst run clubs in World football but sure let’s keep hoping there’s a special manager out there who’d do wonders with a 40 million quid budget

  54. Danny

    Dark Hei
    June 13, 2019 10:18:41
    In his first game, Sanogo scored 4 goals

  55. HighburyLegend

    “Very very tough start.”

    Well, let’s be honest : in our situation, the sooner we will be in the bottom of the table, the better. Total rebuild needed.

  56. Valentin

    According to rumours, That Schubert GK is another one from the Sven’s left behind list. With Carrasco also from Sven’s list, I wonder who is identifying players now that he has left. Outside of Martinelli who got the eye of Edu, it seems that we mostly follow Sven’s left behind list.

    What was the point of sidelining him and barring him from a job he had been promised by Gazidis if it is to implement his players recruitment plan? Difficult to then argue he was incompetent. Sound more and more like clash of personality and Raul was strengthening his powerbase rather the club.

  57. Batistuta

    Even clubs in much better situations are already getting their business done but we’re fricking haggling with a dew quid with fucking Sampdoria….I swear this football club does my head in

  58. Valentin

    During the Emirates Cup, Sanogo scored four goals .
    He was cheap, he was useful. He helped us win a FA Cup. Less money was spend on him than on Podolski who inexplicably is still loved by some when he was absolutely diabolical in most games.

  59. terraloon

    I know it was mentioned on here that theAST had posted estimates of the clubs trading year just ending and indeed looking forward a further 12 months.
    We could debate all day long re their accuracy indeed, I, suspect that the amortisation sum is understated but at the same time I suspect that the monies received for players is likewise understated but what struck me was two things
    Firstly this comment
    “Estimate works on the baseline of no player sales to show the position as of now. It may be that Arsenal can secure some player sales which would strengthen the position when it comes to buying players but I do not see that much capacity in this area given the current profile of the squad with the exception of Lacazette who has a strong asset value based on his age and contract value.”
    Secondly the explanation as to why little of the cash on hand is available to fund transfers.
    The majority of the deadwood was sold just prior to or during 2017/18 season so it’s back to AST statement in that the only true value from within the squad are probably players that would be counterproductive to sell.
    Over at SB they have been slaughtered for not having a plan and all that and in particular around the number of players in their loan army that never will play but what struck me is they seem to be selling of their deadwood. To date two have gone for a combined total of €25 million euros and in advance of FIFA rule changes are said to be culling that loan army by around 15 players with a target of making €150-200 million from sales and that excludes money they will get from selling Hazard or indeed current squad players who, if the ban sticks, will be replaced by academy players returning from their first experience of senior football and indeed players like Zouma and Batshuayi and Pulisic who are currently out on loan. Many of these players I suspect would be welcome at Arsenal with open arms.
    I have to admit its anyone guess who will be their manager come start of season or indeed if they will be allowed to buy anyone in the window , which seems unlikely, but I really do wonder if on here far too many are expecting them to collapse when quite possibly if the forced way on them is shown to work then

  60. Champagne Charlie


    Does it only float the one way? I’d say claiming a decade worth of future ills qualifies as such.

  61. CG

    45-1 William Hill – Arsenal to win the Title……Slip Slip Sliding away,

    2000-1 – Arsenal to be Relegated

  62. Valentin

    During the 2014 FA Cup final against Hull, Sanogo did more than Podolski. At least in that game he did contribute to the victory. Podolski was shocking during that game.
    Review how players rated for that game, and you’ll see that for most newspaper he go 7, while Podolski got mostly 4 and 5.

  63. Cesc Appeal


    The re-imagining of Wenger, was called for years that this would happen.

    There’s a lot of people whose reactions to criticisms of Wenger betray an agenda that makes there critique of Emery, Sanllehi etc hard to swallow.

    To be honest, there’s some poster like WE, Carts, Sal etc who have problems with Emery that are perfectly legitimate, understandable and credible because they have always been critical voices. As much as I might disagree with some of what they say, I agree with other bits and understand their points.

    But there are some on here who are shameless now opening up like never before and pretending they were objective voices of criticism all along throughout Wenger’s time.

    But there you go. Some engage with them on here. I’m not interested. It’s laughable how predictable they are.

  64. Valentin

    André Santos was fat, unfit, slow, uninterested, could not defend if his life depended on it. I don’t think he had one good game in Arsenal colour.

    It is strange that people who attended game at the time have fond memories of a kid who was not good enough but tried and was useful. Causing mayhem in the opposition penalty box with his height and physical presence. While most keyboard warriors who never attended games slates him with insults and jibes.

  65. Words on a Blog


    People on here will crucify Emery when they find out (I’m ITK, believe me it’s gonna happen) that Cohen Bramall is off the Barcelona on a free.

    Shocking mismanagement of a rare talent.

  66. Jamie

    CA –

    You’ve absolutely nailed it.

    I’d go through your post point by point just to agree with each one, but you get it.

    Some shameless AKBs here emboldened by Pedro’s disdain for Emery (who absolutely deserves a fair whack of criticism).

    The game is lost when you start talking up Sanogo like a cunt.

  67. Valentin


    Everybody has opinion. That does not make it an agenda.
    Trying to take the moral high ground, while you were one who was continuously raging personal attack on specific players or defending players even when they had bad games.

    People may disagree with Wenger and wanted him gone that does not mean that they agree with people insulting him. It is called respect.

    Trying to equate people judging Emery not good enough as wanting Wenger back is another strawman. Same thing stating that the club is badly managed TODAY does not mean that Wenger was perfect. It means that today’s management team is not good enough. You may disagree, but by their own metrics they failed.

    You are the one with the agenda who refuse to consider that the current management team is not good enough, because you are heavily invested in them.
    Most of those people alledgedly with agenda are invested in Arsenal FC, not Arsène FC, not in Emery and Raul FC.

  68. Batistuta

    Can’t take you serious if you’re in any way, manner and form justifying Yaya Sanogo putting on an Arsenal shirt

  69. Words on a Blog


    To some extent, fair points.

    However the contrast between some people’s limitless patience for Wenger/Gazidis and radical impatience with Emery/Raoul is telling.

    In the end, in my view, the problem stems from Stan.

    Oh, and sorry, but agenda or no agenda, Sanogo was shit.

  70. Champagne Charlie


    That’s harsh. No issue with us landing young players who have ripped up the under’s scene for FREE.

    But not realising he was never going to make it after a season is embarrassing, doubling down on it because you didn’t want to be wrong? No words.

  71. Cesc Appeal


    I completely agree with you.

    Some of the absolute specimens that get indulged on here when others are banned is baffling.

    They just have no credibility in my eyes, they lack any form of objectivity and drip with agenda. If you defended to the hilt the last regime, if you defended 99% of what Wenger did, if you try to say Wenger and Gazidis are now irrelevant topics to the current state of affairs, if you rallied against the fans pressing for change for the last 6 or 7 years…what on earth gives you the right to suddenly decide to be a critical fan pushing for more and pushing for change?

    Nothing is going to stop them commenting, of course. But it’s laughable the incredulity with which they react to question over their hypocrisy and their desperate attempt to re-imagine their own conduct as ‘wanting Wenger out for years’ and being severely critical of him.

  72. Valentin


    I did not Sango was good, I said that he was useful. He was pacy when the only strikers we had was Giroud and Podolski who would lose any foot race with dwarves.
    He was gangly, awkward and with his flailing arms he was annoying to defend against. There were games where his mere presence unsettled defenders. The FA Cup final in 2014 being one example. I remember as well a champion’s league game where the opposition defenders did not know what to do with him.

    He was never the long term solution, but I don’t think he deserved the abuse some are giving him. He was a cheap experiment that failed.

  73. Cesc Appeal

    Interesting that BvB are apparently looking at Kozz, Arsenal willing to let him go.

    Honestly no idea what he would go for.

  74. Jamie

    Amen, Cesc.

    Hopefully the battle lines will be drawn in a year or two when we hire a saucy Head Coach which splits Pedro from some of the clowns.

    If he’s foreign and can’t speak English fluently, CG is already out. If he bins Ozil (who will no doubt still be stinking out the place), Pierre’s done too. Baby steps.

  75. Words on a Blog


    I agree.

    But the trouble is, whether or not someone was critical of Wenger and his responsibility for the club’s present situation, it is much much easier to simplistically and prematurely blame Emery for all the club’s present ills and simply assert that once he’s gone everything will be hunky dory.

    A prime example is Pedro, who often sounds as if he’s a true believer in MAWMAGA (Mikel Arteta Will Make Arsenal Great Again)

  76. Champagne Charlie

    “if you try to say Wenger and Gazidis are now irrelevant topics to the current state of affairs”

    I was the only one who mentioned anything resembling this, and it wasn’t in relation to the “current state of affairs”, it was relative to taking us from this point forward – with Liverpool as a modern reference.

    Seems agenda can in fact work both ways, imagine that.

  77. Valentin


    According to your rule if Emery is sacked or not renewed, only the people who have wanted Emery to be sacked or not renewed should have a say in the running of the club.

    I look forward to see how you are going to justify your comment next season, because I am pretty sure that Emery will not be in charge at the beginning of the season 2020-2021.

    The management team may not be responsible for the situation they are in. But they are responsible for the decision they take now. It’s like at a poker table, you may have been dealt a bad hand, you still have to play it.

  78. Jamie

    In poker, what do you do when you keep being dealt a busted flush for the best part of a decade? Keep playing it, obviously. That’s how you win at poker.

  79. Cesc Appeal


    I think that’s how it goes anyway.

    The critique of Emery because he’s not ‘sauce’ or ‘vision’ to get us to the top is preposterous because that’s not what he’s here for. Not in my opinion anyway.

    Emery is here to be a manager for some sort of stability on field while massive changes occur off it and with the squad.

    The next manager, whether that’s a Nagelsmann or a Vieira will be the one the club looks at to push it to the next level with a vision installed from the DoF and TD, the squad balanced and the financials healthier.


    Some of them I just couldn’t care less and will never care what they say.

    They defened endlessly for 6 to 7 years. The mental contortions. Defenidng Fabregas and Nasri. Defending Ozil and Sanchez. Defending the ‘ideal situation’ comments. Defending catastrophic humiliation after catastrophic humiliation. Defending amateur procurement in the trasnfer market. Defending the ‘Cech summer’ etc etc.

    You now suddenly want to turn from perpetually defending the indefensible to criticizing everything? From defending 99% of things to critiquing 99% with he pivot coming from the change of manager?

    They can fuck off.

  80. Receding Hairline

    “You now suddenly want to turn from perpetually defending the indefensible to criticizing everything? From defending 99% of things to critiquing 99% with he pivot coming from the change of manager?”

    Spot on

    Some even ask you to forget the decade long madness that led to this situation. One even called last season a car crash…guess he just started following Arsenal properly last season.

  81. Champagne Charlie


    That reference makes little sense to what was actually left behind.

    Emery had an ill-balanced squad capable of scrapping for top 4. If you were to listen to some suggestions it’s like he walked into a club on the verge of collapse, and potential relegation looming.

    The previous faces are responsible for where we’ve been left off, but from here the onus is on the new guard to deliver. This continual harping back to the previous lot is plain bogus.

    For how ‘shit’ a state we were left in we should’ve made top 4 this past season, and didn’t because of the current managers end of season performance.

  82. Batistuta


    Yea i mean, after a couple of games even the most bat shit crazy person could see Sanogo was just wrong but he ended up starting a champions league game for us against Bayern. There’s a part of me that doesn’t really miss the emotional round of 16 scars of the Wenger years.


    There was no pace at all about Sanogo. He was just wrong yea he was a free signing e.t.c but jeez whoever scouted him and then approved a salary for him should have been sacked immediately

  83. Chris


    You offer some context regarding Sanogo but the truth is he should never been anywhere near the Arsenal starting 11, certainly not in a Champions League Knock out tie against Bayern Munich.

    Trying to big him up is never going to work with most Arsenal fans.

    And you haven’t said this exactly but everyone knows who the better player was out of him and Podolski.

  84. Champagne Charlie


    That’s what I’m saying, I think “indulgence” is a word I’d use to describe a lot of what occurred on the playing side the past decade.

    Lots of players dealt with in far too comfortable and human a manner, instead of the real serious/harsh streak that comes with successful elite sports clubs.

    There’s a lot I admire about Arsenal and their values, but there’s also a disconnect with that and the top 1%. You can’t be super nice at everything all the time. Hard decisions don’t need deferred, they need made, and made early, and made with a commitment towards an incredibly lofty standard. Otherwise those standard slip, as we’ve seen.

  85. Chris

    Tough start to the season also.

    As someone else said I think it is needed though. We have had a bad run to the end of last season, and going up against big teams to begin and getting good results will hopefully inspire confidence going into the autumn/winter.

    It could easily go the other way too though. Even if the start to the season is bad, it would have to be exceptionally terrible for Emery not see Christmas in the job.

  86. Jamie

    CC –

    Not much in there to disagree with, frankly.

    I’m not an Emery apologist, and I don’t harp on about the previous regime because I’d rather look forward than backwards. He fucked the run in, and we were embarrassed in the EL final. He’ll be gone in a year and we’ll start over, I guess.

    Sanogo was trash. That’s what this discussion was about. Citing a single Emirates Cup performance or his ‘desire to wear the shirt’ is toe-curling revisionism.

  87. Cesc Appeal

    No links for Mustafi away yet is worrying, Chambers, Kozz, Kolasinac, Elneny all at least have had some rumours of a bit of substance about them. Mustafi not really anything of substance.

  88. Champagne Charlie


    Sanogo wasn’t muck, but the idea (nabbing a precocious talent) was right.

    Just seems with Arsenal we’re forever making the wrong micro-decisions that matter most. We get Sanogo and Eisfeld instead of, well basically anyone else who’d have likely been better. Our last genuine poach was Fabregas ffs.

  89. Dream10

    Bielik “I will definitely not go back to the Arsenal U23 team. At this stage it wouldn’t make sense. If I do not receive the possibility to join the first team permanently, I’ll have to look for other solutions”

    I think young Bielik is a worth look. Put him in the rotation of CBs. If Saliba is signed, it is likely that he goes back to St. Etienne on loan. Not a fan of Joachim Andersen’s profile.

  90. China1

    Far too much truth cesc

    1) people who excused wenger for ages have no right to an opinion on emery. They relinquished that a very long time ago

    2) those who do have a right to an opinion on emery tho (Pedro for example) unfortunately tend to lean towards throwing everything but the kitchen sink at the guy when there’s actually plenty of legit reasons to criticize him without also blaming him for everything including the rainy weather

  91. Cesc Appeal

    Saliba is apparently close, still potential for us not to get him but going well, would be very excited for that one.

    Elite young prospect.

  92. Jamie

    CC –

    “but the idea (nabbing a precocious talent) was right.”

    Definitely. I’m all over the intent.

    It’s the assessment of his output after the fact because he was rated higher than Podolski in a friendly and loved the club that lacks any impartiality. Frimpong loved putting on the shirt too.

  93. WengerEagle


    Haha Old Weng signed some doozies in his time, did the lad even turn out 90 mins in an Arsenal shirt?

    Park Chu Young was another bizarre signing.

  94. Champagne Charlie


    That’s it in a nutshell. The assessment done at the club is really, really concerning.

    I had this convo just the other day about Gnabry. How the fuck is the youth structure so bad at Arsenal that we can’t plot a path to the first team for him? He ended up at West Brom under Pulis ffs.

    Seems we don’t know how to recognise talent within, and certainly haven’t a clue how to tailor a programme per the individual to make them the best version of themselves. Either way we don’t get many guys make it, and we make fuck all from selling any on. Weird/worrying setup

  95. WengerEagle

    And who could forget Ryo ‘Rolls Royce’ Miyaichi?

    Fucked shit up for 12 matches in the Eredivisie, came back here and broke a sprint record vs Wigan in the Cup only to seemingly disappear from the face of the earth since.

  96. Cesc Appeal


    Completely agree.

    It actually detracts from legitimate criticism. Some people are very measured and I agree with them. The end of season collapse was so spectacular Emery has to be seriously looked at. Yeah the squad is shit, 6th in the top 6, yeah you can say Xhaka cost us against Brighton, Mustafi against Palace etc but at the end of the day we should have finished 4th.

    The defence hasn’t improved, again, shit player but Emery should have done something better.

    I was all for moving Torreira in to a CM position but it became clear that he didn’t have the engine for it so drop him back to where he was highly effective.

    But I’m not going balls deep into a guy who has no full backs, no wingers, no pace or physicality in central midfield and a squad that has been thrown together in shambolic fashion over the last 6 years.

    Add to that the crippling wage bill, lowest value squad in the top 6 and a minuscule budget.

    Add to that I don’t personally even think Emery is here to be a manager that leads us on a title run. We’re doing what United should have done and what Woodward apparently is still refusing to do. Modernizing the club after a legacy manager.

  97. Dream10

    Wenger Eagle

    Park Chu Young was decent for South Korea. He was alright for Monaco. But, he wasn’t built to be a #9 supported by three or four #10s like we had back then.

    What are you thoughts on the Uruguayan #9 Maxi Gomez? We’ve been linked to him previously. Seems to be an effective player, not exciting enough for me, lacks mobility.. The type that might arrive if Lacazette is sold. West Ham, Everton and Serie A sides interested apparently

  98. Champagne Charlie


    I don’t think he did tbh, I just remember he had a hairline to scare the kids at 21.

    We didn’t half land a few absolute specials. Would love to know what really goes on behind the scenes, you fancy back then there was a lot of “selling” a player with a talk. Only for some to turn up and be complete turnip haha

    Never bought the obvious transfers I felt a lot of the time. Hugo Lloris so should’ve been an Arsenal player 47 years ago, yet we marched on with some dogs dinners. Arsenal fc forever landing the wrong side of the right decision.

  99. WengerEagle


    Its weird how you envisage certain players to being suited to Arsenal, I always felt that Lloris, Vertonghen, Benzema and Martial at some point would be lining up in an Arsenal shirt.

    Now only a remote chance on one of those happening.

  100. WengerEagle


    Marko loves the kid, I’m like you I’m not quite as sold yet. He’s a unit but as you say he lacks mobility and hasn’t got super quick feet for a big man ala Ibrahimovic or Adriano.

    I prefer Joelinton who looks more the whole package to me, his finishing needs more work but the potential is clear to see at 22.

  101. Jamie

    CC –

    It’s extremely worrying.

    All I know is how little I know about what’s required to implement a vision for a super-club.

    If it was me, I’d make sure the training facilities were the best money can buy, then I’d go after all the best coaches from around the world. Specialists in every area, and pay them whatever it takes.

    Implement a 10-year vision on how you want the game to be played, and deliver that remit to the youth teams and up.

    Players and the head coach can be replaced/recruited to fit the strategy, rather than compromising on vision for perceived short-term gains. I’m almost leaning towards believing that having a long-term coaching team armed with a strategy is more critical to the setup than the head coach whose primary role is almost limited to in-game management.

    Perhaps far too simplistic. If it was that easy, every club with money would be Hollywood.

  102. Dream10

    Wenger Eagle

    Seen Joelinton a couple of times. A tall rangy striker who can play down the sides. An upgraded Welbeck if you like. That type is very valuable. He would help us in aggressive away games like Liverpool, City.

    Haller is my pick to replace Lacazette if he goes to Spain. He is tall, knows how to use his frame (unlike Joachim Andersen) and has end product. I really like Jean Kevin Augustin of Leipzig. He is less technical than Lacazette, but much quicker. If he gets a run in Germany or the PL, he has it in him to comfortably score in double figures

  103. jwl

    Jamie – just focus on basics is way to go but it is hard to implement. Hiring best people on high wages makes them over think things to justify their reputation/salary. I keep saying Arsenal need to focus on athleticism and players who give 100% every match no matter what but any top manager would sound naive if he took that attitude.

  104. jwl

    Jamie – I hit post before I done. I think Ajax do what you suggesting and I am sure there are other clubs trying to implement same philosophy, but it’s hard to do as you say.

  105. Freddie Ljungberg

    “Reflecting on his short time with Arsenal, the Blaugrana misfit pinpoints a knock suffered in his second game for the club during a Europa League clash against BATE Borisov as a decisive moment.

    Suarez told Cadena Ser: “At the end of the game I thought that I had torn my groin and they did a scan and saw that I had an oedema [a build-up of fluid] on the bone in my pelvis.

    “I thought I had torn something; I was in a lot of pain. And from then on I carried on training with medication and putting up with it as best I could but I didn’t feel right and [Unai] Emery didn’t think I was right.

    “I wasn’t comfortable. I don’t think I was even at 50%. After 15 days of being at Arsenal, I wasn’t right. From the 16th I wasn’t even at 50%.”

    Explains why Suarez didn’t play more. Hardly the same as buying a player with a broken back.

    Sometimes shit happens, just be happy we removed the automatic buy clause and move on.

  106. China1

    Yeah cesc I ended the season emery out

    I don’t think the end of season collapse was ok considering we also lost in the EL

    But he did inherit a wank ass squad even if we should’ve nicked a CL qualification. He also had injuries to key players at key times

  107. Valentin

    When it was announced that Emery was conducting an internal reviewt, I said that it would conclude that his staff were in no way responsible for the end of season collapse, but that Arsenal legacy staff would. Seems that we now have the confirmation.

    I can understand blaming the conditioning team for the second half performance of the Europa League final. As Martin Keown said, they looked tired because of over training. However the end of season collapse was mostly due to tactical and personnel mistakes made by Emery and his team.

    I said before, it is bad management to have the review of failed project to be conducted by the project manager. Any decent managing director would know that it is bad governance. And bad governance ultimately lead to failure.

    An investigation led by somebody independent would have more credibility. That investigation will always have the whiff of white wash. Also such investigation should report its finding to the boss of the project manager Raul not Emery. Raul should then take the decision based on independent investigation that would include every head of department (Emery and Burgess) opinion. According to the own chart created by Raul, the performance and conditioning team did not report to Emery, so why should he be the one deciding its fate.

  108. Graham62


    Digested your 11:16 post to @ Tyag. Amazingly, you still don’t get the point. Actually what am I saying? Of course you and your buddies never will.

    A top flight manager would have been kicking Kroenke’s door down to push for change and a more proactive action to the direction the club was going.

    In my opinion, Wenger failed miserably because he wasn’t prepared to “rock the boat’. He would rather sit back, do his thing(which was generally scheisse anyway) and let things regress, rather than put the club first.

    He valued his own self importance above the clubs need to change. Same with Gazidis. The Fenway group at Liverpool would have terminated both their services long ago had they been in charge, of that I have no doubt. Kroenke could not because he knew no better. As long as the till was clicking away, he didn’t care. As soon as it became evident that bums were no longer on the seats and our Finances were being fudged up, he had to act. He had no choice.

    Anyway you and your special fan zone on here (CG /CC/ Victorious etc) have your own PoV on this issue, which is fair enough. Nevertheless, you can’t deny that even though Emery has stepped in and made many mistakes in his first season, the whole infrastructure he stepped into had been infested by a regime that made rank bad decisions and colossal mistakes over a long period, prior to his arrival.

    I will never have the same loving feeling and respect that you have for Wenger, you know that, BUT, to blame Emery for everything, which some posters delight in doing, is bang out of order.

    As I pointed out to CC earlier today, all very naive.

  109. Rainman

    They just have no credibility in my eyes, they lack any form of objectivity and drip with agenda. If you defended to the hilt the last regime, if you defended 99% of what Wenger did, if you try to say Wenger and Gazidis are now irrelevant topics to the current state of affairs, if you rallied against the fans pressing for change for the last 6 or 7 years…what on earth gives you the right to suddenly decide to be a critical fan pushing for more and pushing for change?

    Nothing is going to stop them commenting, of course. But it’s laughable the incredulity with which they react to question over their hypocrisy and their desperate attempt to re-imagine their own conduct as ‘wanting Wenger out for years’ and being severely critical of him.


  110. Champagne Charlie


    Yea you do attach to some players in that respect. Benzema I had pegged, Mahrez, Moussa Sissoko, Lloris, Vertongen, Sebastien Frey as a throwback.

    Just weird how it seems the dead obvious ones never materialise. I wanted Kily Gonzalez back in the day so bad. How about that for a name hahaha