Liverpool and Spurs shame our owners ambition (Long Read)

by & filed under News Review.

To make a bad weekend even worse, tragic news just dropped the Jose Antonio Reyes passed away after a car accident. A tragic loss of a young life. He was one of the most exciting ‘out of the blue’ signing from way back when and certainly an unsung hero of our invincibles era. Thoughts are prayers of everyone at Le Grove are with his family right now.

Onto football.

I took a pretty big swipe at our ailing manager yesterday, and many people felt I should focus more of my energy at the family running the show.

So let’s talk about what running a club with vision and purpose looks like. What better place to look than Spurs and Liverpool? (I know, it hurts so bad)

5 years ago, Arsenal had just finished the season in 3rd place. Spurs and Liverpool had finished 5th and 6th respectively. Neither team had broken 60 goals.

Arsenal were ahead of the game. We had built our stadium, we had better players, and we were still enjoying our superb run of Champions League football.

So what happened? As we wrote extensively at the time. The Kroenke family were happy to watch their fortune grow because they are real estate people. Sadly, they didn’t pay attention to the reality of what was going on pitch side. They couldn’t recognise the decline in the football, they didn’t understand what the influx of money was going to do to the competition in the league, and they only paid attention to the standard health metrics of the business… namely, that all financials were ticking upwards.

That said, here’s where so many fans get things brutally wrong. They’re not bloodsuckers. They have invested ample funds in Arsenal. We have had exactly the same chance at greatness as the rest of the teams around us. The single biggest failure of Arsenal was to keep Wenger on way beyond his sell-by date, the second biggest failure was on Ivan Gazidis for his cuck like behavior in not at the very least building an elite team around him. The third was the missed opportunities. Sign Sven Mislintat and Jurgen Klopp 5 years ago when we could have, we’re talking about a different Arsenal. We could have had Pep Guardiola. The list goes on.

Ivan didn’t have a real football vision for the club. He had some really nice platitudes that he’d parrot at the AGMs, but there was zero know-how for delivering his substanceless proclamations that we’d become like Bayern Munich (‘be like them’ isn’t really a vision).

No vision, no philosophy, no structure, and a bad manager was a recipe for criminal wastage… not just that, we had a placid fanbase that didn’t understand the damage their father like manager was doing (even now, people still talk about him like he’s an absent dad and it’s f*cking creepy).

Spurs and Liverpool didn’t have the same issues. They both embarked on a similar plan of attack. They hired in two managers that boasted vision, coaching skills, outrageous charisma, and absolute belief in the project they were taking on. A manager is step one, it’s always the simplest way to impact a club. Know what you want to do, then find people with the energy to deliver it.

Spurs wanted to bring through young players and coach them to elite levels. They wanted a core of British players that loved playing with each other and felt deep affinity to the manager and club (Arsene > Project Youth). They had a good crop of kids that blended in with very smart buys from around the globe. The football might not always be that technical, but the work ethic is a sight to behold. Their players are more than the sum of their parts, they are an uncompromising beast of a team.

Liverpool, it was simple, they wanted to play heavy metal football. Klopp made great strides in season one and slowly built players around his exciting vision. Power, pace, flair, aggression and warlike mentality from everyone was the absolute standard. No one has more fire than the manager, he’s someone they all love, and he loves them back.

Also, the fans knew what was coming, they bought into the energy and they saw actual progress on the pitch.

Both managers galvanised the fanbase.

‘But, but, but…’

The money, right? Stan K doesn’t invest, he’s a leech, he’s going to bring us down…

Not quite my friends. The Kroenke’s biggest weakness now is the one that’s going to sting them very badly moving forward. They didn’t take the time to understand what was going on at shop level. My guess is they haven’t wanted to be bothered because they’re making magic with The Rams. They don’t really get football, they’d like to succeed, but they’ve entrusted average people with the fortunes of the club, which was fine when elite average could get your top 4 every year, now the bar has shifted.

Arsenal has a net spend of €288m over the past 5 seasons. We’ve dropped almost €500m on players.

Liverpool, a team everyone calls cheque book these days, has a net spend over 5 years of… €204m! €84m less than Arsenal! Their outlay over 5 years is €710m, but 50% of that has come in the last two seasons because… the vision they implemented started reaping financial rewards!

Spurs success, as much as it pains me, is even more staggering. Their net spend sits at €42m over 5 years. Think about that, we’re out here crying that poor old Emery only had €83m to spend last summer! Spurs total player expenditure over a 5 year period has been €328m. (Numbers sources from Transfermarkt)

Wages paints an even starker picture. Liverpool has spent £990m on player wages (Swiss Ramble sourced) over 5 years, with Arsenal right up behind them having dropped a STAGGERING £975m. Spurs, a team in the Champions League final, having just built a new stadium, have spent £576m!

Let me put this into a harsher light… Spurs wage bill is actually £18m lower than ours was FIVE YEARS AGO.

Our weak leadership has consistently thrown their hands up and said we can’t compete because of money. As you all know, we’ve been saying that’s a loser mindset. The best thinkers always find a way to at least get themselves into the mixer. Atleti, Dortmund, Ajax to name but a few.

Luckily for Arsenal, all is not lost.

I have very little faith that current leadership is going to fix this mess. The vision for the club is meek at best, I don’t understand the action plan, and there’s no timeline against it. The shift we made this year is at least there’s now a loose idea of how a football club should be run, the problem is I’m not sure we have the expertise to deliver, even to the ‘proud’ part of it.

We’re going to feel the brute force of how a well-intentioned structure will always fail when average people are attached to its success. Arsenal is littered with people that don’t know what they’re doing, don’t understand the values of the club, and will ultimately fail. Also, please don’t think I mean that about everyone, the club is also full of a lot of absolute heroes who love the club and want to make it better.

There is hope. We are an institution, we are London based, we generate tremendous revenue streams, we have class, values and integrity… and we are a beautiful sleeping giant. When the Kroenke’s finally wake up, pull the wool from their eyes and take positive action by making people truly accountable for something exciting, we’ll be able to make the climb back up to the top.

… but what we can’t keep doing as fans is continue to celebrate average. We can’t keep groaning that it’s impossible to attain greatness. We can’t have such embarrassingly low standards.

Strong leadership shouldn’t be hard to find with the resources we have available. An exciting vision isn’t that hard to formulate if you are talented and ambitious. Moving Arsenal up a level in every department should be low hanging fruit.

… I just don’t think the reality has kicked in with those that own Arsenal.

Today is a dark day for Arsenal. Two teams that five years ago were in much worse positions commercially, financially and on the pitch are in the final of a trophy we’re not even good enough to qualify for.

The exec leadership can either lie down and accept it, or they can pull their finger out and get a little more serious about implementing an exciting vision for the future of our great club.

Let’s see where this summer goes, but for now, let’s all hide in a box and pray the worst doesn’t happen this evening.

x

797 Responses to “Liverpool and Spurs shame our owners ambition (Long Read)”

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  1. PhD2020

    Quite sad.
    Two European CL Trophies in fourteen years.Three CL Finals in fourteen years.

    One owner(s) in Hicks and Gillet railroaded out of Anfield,by the Anfield faithful.

    New owners in FSG come 2010-

    Football League Cup runner-up: 2015–16
    UEFA Europa League runner-up: 2015–16
    UEFA Champions League runner-up: 2017–18
    UEFA Champions League Winners: 2018–19
    ===============

    Arsenal under Silent Stan( 2007-minority shareholder-majority shareholder 2019):-

    Europa Finalists
    2019-Losers

    FA Cups
    2017 Beat Chelsea 2-1
    2015 Beat Aston Villa 4-0
    2014 Beat Hull City 3-2 (aet)

    ———

    No more needs to be said.

    Well done Klopp and FSG…!!!

  2. Dream10

    Fabinho has been excellent in the second half of the season. By far the best defensive midfielder in the division in 2019.

  3. bennydevito

    Thank fuck for that.

    I said to my missus at the start that choosing which team you want to win this as an Arsenal fan is like choosing which way you’d rather die between drowning and being set on fire!

    Anyone but Tottenham and I’d have been supporting them against Liverpool.

    Hopefully now all the Tottenham fans who’ve been here stinking the place out will fuck off.

  4. Chrispy

    Fucking marvellous. Shame it had be Liverpool ( always the victim) assholes to win but can’t help laughing at the scum. Cunts

  5. bennydevito

    I don’t think it was a penalty. Sissoko had his arm up indicating to his team mates to watch the runners before Mane deliberately kicked the ball at him, and Mane definitely did it on purpose because you could see on the slow mo replay Mane looking directly at Sissoko’s arm before kicking it at him.

  6. Words on a Blog

    BennyD,

    Looks like the way UEFA interpret it these days, any sort of contact using the hand or arm is deemed to be handball.

    So, if Mane kicked the ball at sissoko’s hand on purpose, he was just gaming the new system.

  7. Goonah

    Benny

    You really don´t point or wave your arm at anybody in the pen area!!!

    Sissoko fcked up. Clear pen.

  8. Redtruth

    The professionalism between Arsenal and Liverpool is staggering.
    Klopp drops last seasons flop Keeper and replaces him with a £70m Keeper
    Emery drops our No.1 Keeper for an ageing flop and plays him in a major Final.

  9. TheLegendaryDB10

    Sissoko clearly brought his arm down when being shot at which most certainly could be interpreted as trying to prevent the shot going through. I think this is how the ref interpreted it, however much he was pointing.

  10. bennydevito

    True. But he had his arm up before he ran into the box.

    Apparently from next season any contact deliberate or not will be a penalty so are we going to be seeing attackers deliberately kicking the ball at defenders arms to win penalties beca that will be shit.

  11. R.S.P.C.Arsenal

    Red

    You don’t know if at start of season
    Emery said your my cup keeper, an was honouring his word.

  12. bennydevito

    Not sure what game Hoddle was watching but all he kept saying was how Tottenham were easily the better side.

    They really weren’t

  13. Chris

    Can someone check on Guns of Hackney? He must be devastated.

    It is always acceptable to laugh at Spurs. Always.

  14. TheLegendaryDB10

    Red

    I can only agree. It was a complete disgrace to have let that chav reject Cech play the final.

    With all that was being said it was obvious that Leno should have played. This was a really soft Arsenalesque decision to have played Cech. All in the name of class… pfft. No decisiveness on Emery’ s part on this one.

  15. Redtruth

    The difference in Professionalism between Arsenal and Liverpool is staggering.
    Klopp drops last seasons flop Keeper and replaces him with a £70m Keeper
    Emery drops our No.1 Keeper for an ageing flop and plays him in a major Final.

  16. Cesc Appeal

    Arsenal are apparently one of a few teams looking at Kabak of Stuttgart now they’ve been relegated.

    Interesting. Would mean dealing with Mislintat most likely!

  17. goonerkitt

    Firstly my commiserations to the family of Jose Antonio Reyes , a fantastic player who , if he had settled in London would have been a brilliant player for us for much more than the three seasons he was with us. Secondly….Ha fuckin Ha to all the scumcunts who have been sending me Facebook messages. I would message them all back but to be honest have been too busy having my sides sewn up after that final. Champions league final between two teams with a combined wait for a league title of 87 years.

  18. Dream10

    Cesc Appeal

    Gazidis wants Mislintat at Milan. That’s the type of player he’ll take there with him

  19. WengerEagle

    LG summed it up well, piss poor Final but most are when there’s so much at stake and margins are so fine between glory and devastation.

    Liverpool weren’t impressive but still they never REALLY looked in danger of losing at the same time, no doubt the PK made things much simpler for them.

    Allison Motm but even the vast majority of not all of his saves were ones you’d expect him to make.

    Happy for Klopp, he deserves to sit in that elite bracket of gaffers with a CL winners medal.

  20. WengerEagle

    Bizarre decision not to start Lucas Moura from Poch.

    Felt for the lad, never has a player deserved a CL Final start more than him.

    Kane didn’t even look fully fit.

  21. Cesc Appeal

    Dream10

    So Mislintat moves again having just signed a contract a few months ago?

    Something doesn’t smell right with him.

  22. WengerEagle

    CA

    I was as relieved for you as much as anything when Origi buried the Spuds dreams with that lovely shovel.

    Now you can at least use public transport and grace the pub once again, gloating comes later so I’m told…

  23. WengerEagle

    PhD

    We haven’t got shit to say to a Pool fan anymore, sad times.

    Went from bantering off of everyone but United to being the butt of the joke from Pool and even Spurs fans, not to mention the Chavs.

    A top rated post on Reddit the other day put up a post congratulating Arsenal on qualifying for next season’s… Europa League.

    Dark times haha.

  24. WengerEagle

    CC

    I lamented at the time how the fuck couldn’t we broker better deals in the window when Liverpool sold Bournemouth a literal turd for 19 million pounds.

    They bought Fabinho for the price of two Solanke’s. Outrageous business.

  25. Champagne Charlie

    Weagle

    Any and all, what does getting our house in order look like for you?

    Gimme a rough timeline of what you’d like to see happen between now and opening day of next season

  26. PhD2020

    Not sure, if there is or was a palpable sense of relief from Arsenal fans tonight, not witnessing Spurs winning the CL Trophy? As opposed to still digesting the humiliating 4-1 trouncing by Chelsea in the Europa Cup Final on Wednesday.

    Maybe,it was and is,the slow digestion and realisation of the debacle that awaits us over the forthcoming years,under the current owners.

    The political spin,the platitudes put before the very gullible eyes of the fans.
    Sack the manager the fans say?
    What is our budget?£40 million?£70 million?Is it -season renewal time?
    Stories of recruiting a Technical Director?
    Transfers in/Transfers out?
    Keown says-“The situation at Arsenal,is a result of Arsene’s legacy?”
    Keown says last year-“Arsene gets to choose when he leaves, because he deserves it.-he’s earned that right.”

    The difference this time is, that we are no longer in CL for 20 years, but Europa for three seasons in a row.

    Same script,but different day/year?

    Today,a few swathes of Arsenal fans sighed a huge relief,at the final whistle of the CL FInal 2019 in Madrid.

    One, for not having the final nail in their European coffin double downed on tonight,after Wednesday’s result-i.e.Spurs losing the CL Trophy.

    Two, stadium move?Should they have won tonight,the whole argument about the stadium debt, poverty of funds/players would have been blown to smithereens.Allied with two decades of CL football and one final to account for our entry over the years.

    An absolute travesty.
    Shocking…

    THREE FA CUP TROPHIES UNDER SILENT STAN SINCE 2007(minority) OF HIS OWNERSHIP!!

  27. WengerEagle

    Depends on a couple of things Charlie, what kind of bunce are we looking at? Big difference between having a 40m budget or a 100m one.

    In either case if it were up to me I would replace Emery, with who I’m not sure as of now. I’ve seen enough to feel that we’re not heading in a forward direction under UE though so why drag things out?

    As for players, ideally I’d sell Ozil, Miki, Mustafi, Kolasinac, Elneny, Chambers and Xhaka, I don’t like Iwobi but see the logic in holding onto him as a squaddie.

    That probably raises you 100-130 million in funds based off of how good/poor your negotiating team are. Let’s go with them being terrible and only whipping up 100m from that list of outgoings.

    Combined with a 40m budget (lower end estimate) that would give us roughly 140 million to spend needing about 6 new players, far from adequate.

    So you need to break down what you could bring in with that kind of dough, my guess is it gets you 2-3 quality starters depending on their position, the league/clubs they play for and their contract situation.

    Along with 2 younger talent pick ups, we could also sign a free agent or two as their are some decent ones about this summer.

    Off the top of my head:

    Meunier: 20 million (can play RB and CB, 6 foot 3 proper athlete and can play)
    Aaron Martin LB- Espanyol aren’t in a position to say no to a 20-25 million offer. Heap of other LB talent that we could acquire for similar in Telles, Amavi, Theo Hernandez.
    CM is where we’re going to likely have to get the chequebook out for, we need a a proper quality player in the middle of the park. 30-40 million player for sure.
    Then a LF/LM for 20-30 million, shame we missed out on Brandt, would have been ideal.
    And lastly, a CB. Again 20-30 million range is what we should be looking at. Plenty of talent on the market in that price range.

    As for free agents, Hector Herrera if he’s not already snapped up, Brahimi, Max Kruse all names that improve us.

  28. Words on a Blog

    Poch: elite, “top 3” manager in the world, according to Pedro….still hasn’t won a trophy.

    He needs to leave Spurs if he’s gonna win one.
    Premier League and domestic trophies going to Man C or Liverpool.
    Spurs’s run of lucky ECL wins won’t be repeated.
    Stadium debt will start to bite.

    Man U now closed off as an option.
    Real Madrid also closed.
    Juve? Maybe, but they prefer Italian.
    Barca?

  29. PhD2020

    One can talk of budgets,player sales/purchases.

    But the bottom line is,the vision comes from the top.

    The owner needs to go.Point blank.
    Everything else is a moot point.

    Man City were in Division 1 from 1999-2000-two decades ago!!

    Go figure about vision,ambition, platitudes , trophies and training facilities?

  30. TheLegendaryDB10

    PhD

    You want my thoughts?

    I’ll be brutally honest. I expect the downward spiral to continue. Emery was just an opportunistic hire. They just signed whoever said yes and not expect £200m to change things. No thought in who should be our next manager from the suits. It was and still is an attempt to carry on the top 4 bollocks that AW created as a mark for “success”.

    Just look at the in depth itw with Vinai and Raul. They both stated that if they had Emery they would do it all over again. How ironical that he failed. (I must point out thst I am fully aware how shit ourteam is; I am not ignoring this important point).

    No ambition whatsoever. When Pedders goes on about special sauce, I kinda expected to have a manager who would understand that building the team from the back was the way to build a team to challenge for more than the top 4.

    Instead we got an opportunistic manager (on £6m p.a) who is incapable to adapt and can only function with his own system.

    We now talk about having youth in our team. Considering that Unai was incapable of integrating any youth (bar Guen) it looks very bleak what we will achieve next season.

    Is Edu supposed to come in and accept Unais system or will he try to mold us back in what an Arsenal team should be: have some flair with an aggressive side, like we did during the Invincibles era?

  31. Champagne Charlie

    Weagle

    Yea, rate that approach.

    For me we’ve got to decide/announce our Technical Director as a statement move to let us all know we’re “set” behind the scenes to actually organise a summer.

    Then I’m with you, personally I’d shake hands and pick a different manager to take charge of the process. I don’t expect that to happen though, and realistically we can compete for top 4 next season with a smart squad overhaul and Emery at the wheel – but that’s his ceiling.

    Then I’d like to see the big names/earners culled and a serious assault on club culture in the process. Ozil, Mkhi, Mustafi are the three id sacrifice from the “first team”, others like Chambers, Jenks, Elneny, Ospina is ‘get whatever for’ and add it to the pot.

    I’d entertain money for anyone, let’s make that clear. Plenty happy to sell one of our big two to disperse the incoming cash on talent.

    Then I really want to see us go after some guys with a profile we lack, big, quick, aggressive. We should land on opening day with that new squad smell, some renewed optimism in the back room staff after an obvious summer strategy, and with a clear remit of what Emery should be delivering (after this season hiding behind all manner of “reasons”).

    Shouldn’t be too quiet a place this summer though, ill say that much.

  32. WengerEagle

    Goes without saying Phd, we’re a breathing profit machine for Stan though so its going to be near impossible to force him out with our fanbase, not exactly renowned for being one to rock the boat too much and kick up a shitstorm.

    It took over well over half a decade of stagnation under AW before he was ‘forced out’ and even then, he was allowed to basically walk on his terms in terms of it being as amicable divorce as was really possible given the circumstances.

  33. WengerEagle

    Charlie

    Hopefully it’s not just Sanhelli in charge of player ins and outs, a big part of the reason that Barca are so unrecognisable from the days of Pep are Sanhelli’s poor recruitment at Barcelona in the years before he came here.

    He was behind the disastrous Denis Suarez loan, comparably bad to Kallstrom which AW was rightly rebuked for.

    Dull and unimaginative signings will be on the menu if Sanhelli is the brains of the operation, Barca cast offs a guarantee.

  34. azed

    WengerEagle

    I’ll build the squad as follows

    Mustafi and Chambers for 1 quality CB (Leadership qualities a must)
    Xhaka and Elneny for 1 beast of a CM. Willock takes Iwobi’s sport.
    Kolasinac for one LB from the Championship, France or Eastern Europe.
    AMN , Koscielny and Mavropanos for a young defender like Saliba ( can play CB and RB).
    30M from the 40M war chest would go for a winger (Thauvin, Chukwueze)
    The remaining 10M plus what we get from Ozil and Mkhitaryan would go for Ramsey’s replacement (Exequiel Palacios, Ismaël Bennacer)
    Nkethia replaces Welbeck,
    Bring back Nelson.

  35. Versus

    Arsenal fans blaming a man who has only been employed by the club for 10 months, for all Arsenals woes. You think a club the size of Arsenal becomes a Europa league club over night? Fighting with Manutd for 5th and 6th? You really think Emery has the influence to be able to make a team fighting for the title, turn into a top 6th team? Of course not. Because We were never fightig for the title before emery came.. we were already a europa league team. Multiple seasons in the europa league before emery came. we have been double digits behind the league winners for years before emery came. We still have 80% of players that were signed, before emery came. Lets ask a question, who gave monreal, Koz, cech, mustaphi, xhaka, ozil and iwobi new contracts? Because those players were signed before emery and given newer extentions before emery. what was happening at arsenal to turn us into this mess? What actions preceded Emerys arrival?

  36. TheLegendaryDB10

    WE

    We won’t be a breathing machine for too long though. Our sponsors expect The Arsenal to be actually competing. If we end up sliding down; then our value will drop down.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if he uses as collateral to his loans for the LA Rams stadium.

    I mean where the fuck has our £200 million cash head disappeared to? Have we spent it all (under AW) or is he forcing us to have a minimum amount to keep the value if the club up.

    I really would like to ask Pedders to offer Swiss Ramble a guest post to explain to us in no uncertain terms what our current financial situation is.

  37. PhD2020

    TheLegendaryDB10June 2, 2019 00:47:50
    —–
    Sorry to cut you short.

    Bottom line is,that is the culture at the club.
    We’ve always aimed for top four.For how long?

    Cech alluded too as much, when he said to paraphrase him-‘If we lose,we win,we lose we win.”

    Not sure,if I’ve ever heard such a-‘Down your tools’, crap from an elite sporting entity.Let alone from a winner of a CL/Europa/EPL/FAC/LC medalist.
    It doesn’t get more damning than that.

    How are you going to overturn that mentality, that culture in a club of AFC’s stature –
    !) Overnight(two decades)?
    2)With a £70 million budget?
    3)With a top four vision?
    4)Three seasons in Europa?

  38. Champagne Charlie

    Weagle

    Yea, have to say that Raul doesn’t exactly calm the uncertainty at all does he? He’s got a ton to prove, but the suspicion is he’s just here to exist before sodding off.

    Nobody at the club makes me think ‘ok, he clearly knows what he wants from us and how to get there’. Quietly hoping Edu (or another) comes in and occupies that role of selling us a dream, but one were actually looking to execute.

  39. azed

    Also rather than spend 10m paying out Emery and he’s crew, I’ll use that money and take a chance on a player like Marcus Thuram, Allan St Maxim et al.

    They could either go on to be very good players or we sell for 20M a year later.

  40. Marko

    Aaron Martin has joined Mainz already. Agree re targets and sales. Pointless just sacking Emery though unless you have someone in mind. So when you say sack Emery and replace with who I don’t know yet that seems a bit dim respectfully. You guys love to say plan alot around here. Sacking the manager without a clue as to who replaces him isn’t a plan.

  41. DaveB666

    Just got home after seeing Muse at West Ham’s ground. On the train were tons of Spurs fans – their songs were delightful…..

    Sol Campbell – judas judas what a c*nt

    We;’e going to have a party when Sol Campbell dies.

    My personal favourite was Arsene Wengers dad is Jimmy Saville followed up by their son is Adam Johnson.

    Really had to reign in my instincts……. 🙂

  42. TheLegendaryDB10

    PhD

    I can only agree with you. And that’s for me our main problem.

    We are heading no where.

    And that what pains me the most. We have single handedly managed to ruin an advantage that we had built up under AW’s first 10 years.

    I personally believe that we are truely fucked for the next 10 decades to come. Unless we are lucky to have someone who wants to bring an actual vision to the club.

  43. Champagne Charlie

    Marko

    You’re always going on about selling players left and right, very few of those are with definitive names in mind to take the place of that person. The same rule of thumb applies to saying you’d replace Emery, the inferred element is with someone better suited or with more potential.

  44. PhD2020

    Champagne CharlieJune 2, 2019 01:07:13
    Weagle Yea, have to say that Raul doesn’t exactly calm the uncertainty at all does he? He’s got a ton to prove, but the suspicion is he’s just here to exist before sodding off. Nobody at the club makes me think ‘ok, he clearly knows what he wants from us and how to get there’. Quietly hoping Edu (or another) comes in and occupies that role of selling us a dream, but one were actually looking to execute.

    —–
    You mean,selling us more -manufactured horse manure??

    The jig is up.

    AFC is a business.

    We are doing no more than trying to keep up with the ‘Smiths’.

    We are not ahead of the curve.The investments we have made over the years,is nothing more than, trying to keep up with our next door neighbours.

    We are not revolutionising the league. We are not the flag leaders or bearers in the EPL,or even in Europe.

    We are not even trying to be cute.Just being as we have always been-conservative,trying to play it smart,playing it safe,in short- consolidating our position.

    Three seasons in Europa, solidifies my opinion.

    PS
    Liverpool -Six European Trophies
    How damning?

  45. Marko

    What? Replacing a manager isn’t the same as replacing a player. There’s a significant lack of quality managers out there even less available while there’s a lot of players who could replace our shit players.

    Genuine question Charles not looking into a tussle here but how come you’re so vocal about replacing Emery and weren’t so much with Wenger? Is it the teeth?

  46. WengerEagle

    Marko

    If you were to push us for names I would be interested to see us look at any of Allegri [pipe dream], Favre, Marcelino, Gasperini,

    Have all a track record at improving sides season by season and having teams punching above their weight.

    Gasperini has done an outstanding job at Atalanta in Italy, 3rd place finish this season and top scorers in the league ahead of Juventus. They play some incredible football, most entertaining side in Italy bar none.

    A 51% win record there over 140 matches and 3 years is impressive whatever way you look at it.

  47. WengerEagle

    With respect to Mainz Marko, what difference does that make?

    Frnakfurt triggered the permanent clause on Jovic’s loan for about 20ish million only to sell him to Real Madrid for 52 million.

  48. TheLegendaryDB10

    I’ll repeat what I stated the night of our defeat vs Chelski.

    I was fuming at the state that both AW and Gazidis left our club in. I personally hold them responsible for our current decline.

    I also hold responsible the Gooners who were applauding AW’s every move without questioning the direction our club was heading in in the last 6-7 years. And you now dare raise your voice and start wondering why we are heading towards becoming a nothing club? I

    ‘ll just say you are a little too late in starting to question the state of our club.

  49. Champagne Charlie

    Marko

    Genuine question that ends with a smart arse comment? I’m vocal because this is an entirely new Arsenal structure where the expectations and accountability should mirror modern elites.

    We were stuck in a vacuum where the views were totally irrelevant, hence less people (myself included) droned on and on. I wanted change, I just knew it wasn’t happening under Stan because there was no reason for it. Even now, I’d change Emery but I’ve stated I don’t think that’s happening….so we should do X and Y that will have us competing.

    Exact same manner I took with Wenger, wanted ‘better’, but ultimately didn’t fixate and instead sought to discuss actual potential changes that would yield more of a return. Then when they didn’t materialise I reiterated he needed replaced.

    You conveniently choose a different narrative to portray with me, which is fine by me because I know fine well what I’ve said previously.

  50. Marko

    You see that’s exactly my point if we decide to sack someone after one season after our recent decline we need to be pretty sure or confident that he is going to be an upgrade otherwise we’d be in near enough the exact same situation in a years time. I like Marcelino have done since Villarreal but I don’t see him being an obvious improvement I see him having the same struggles. Gasperini has done a good job at Atalanta but again not too obvious and lack of English seems to be a pretty big gripe for a lot of people with regards to Emery so maybe hest to avoid a 60 year old who’s never managed outside of Italy. Farve has done a good job at Nice but that collapse at Dortmund doesn’t fill me with confidence in him. Allegri I’ve always thought is pretty gormless and without a significant budget wouldn’t touch us. Imo our best bet is to wait another year hope that both Nagelsmann and Vieira continue to improve and target one of them.

  51. Marko

    With respect to Mainz Marko, what difference does that make?

    None I guess I was merely pointing out that we’d have to buy him from Mainz and not Espanyol. Plenty of LB’s out there so there’s no excuse to not sign one.

  52. WengerEagle

    I don’t even disagree Phd, just not a thought I can even entertain without entering a legit depression after Liverpool win the CL.

    The club top to bottom is infected with a cancerous lackadaisical mentality and an apathy towards sporting success and aversion to creating an environment of pressure to win.

    There’s so much to be done that it makes you near certain that absolutely fuck all will in fact be achieved this summer or in the near future. We’re simply not a club that acts swiftly and decisively, it’s not in our DNA under Stan.

  53. WengerEagle

    TLDB10

    Apologies didn’t see your post, I’m with you and I suspect it’s why AW was finally moved on. The CL gravy train kept us somewhat relevant and sponsors happy and as we descended into a EL club, the value and interest in the club started to diminish finally forcing Stan’s hand.

  54. Marko

    Genuine question that ends with a smart arse comment?

    It was more a joke to show that I come in peace

    Exact same manner I took with Wenger, wanted ‘better’, but ultimately didn’t fixate and instead sought to discuss actual potential changes that would yield more of a return.

    This is my point you are now firmly fixated on sacking the manager while previously you weren’t. Look that’s okay too. These things happen when you become attached to someone. You should be like me and hate everyone until they give you a reason to like them

  55. WengerEagle

    Marko

    Of course it’s no guarantee that they’ll be better than Emery but there’s also no evidence to suggest that they won’t be. You sometimes have to bite the bullet because we’ve seen how we perform under Emery in the crunch period and it’s fucking dismally.

    You can’t just not take a chance because it might not work out any better, if that were the case you would have very few managerial hires or player transfers.

  56. WengerEagle

    The lack of English has never been a gripe of mine with Emery, I don’t personally see it as a major barrier and he was clearly making efforts to improve it which is all you can ask for.

    Not like we have more than a handful of British lads as it is, language of choice in AW’s heyday was French.

  57. PhD2020

    Fornicating swapping deck chairs,whilst the ship is slowing sinking.

    Really,this is not on the manager.I’m done on this topic.

    All the best for all AFC Fans out there.

    Liverpool winning their sixth European CL Trophy.I just can’t fathom this event.I mean,SAF spent his twenty odd years trying to supplant and overturn Liverpool’s five European Trophies and knock them-“Off their perch?”

    It did not happen…
    Elite”Arsenal”- My Arse!!

  58. Champagne Charlie

    Marko

    I literally just said I’d choose to replace him but I’m not expecting that to happen. I also said we can change the squad for the better and compete for top 4 on that basis with Emery. You’re already way too keen to hatch your own version of what people say you miss the details of what they actually say

  59. Marko

    Right but we have to though WE. We can’t run those kinds of risks that you’re alluding to. We as a club have to have some confidence in the hire because we are not able to piss away money every single summer cause we have a modest budget. We can’t keep getting it wrong. Plus that argument you just said about biting the bullet and taken a chance isn’t that what we done last summer? I’m just not sure we’re a club who can afford to sack someone after one season giving our current standing. It’s a reality check imo for a lot of fans. Emery is our level of manager

  60. TheLegendaryDB10

    PhD

    You are not telling me anything new. I already suspected this once I saw that UE was incapable of handling the complexities of restructuring our team.

    I have been on the fence with him at the start of our season and was already worried through our 22 unbeaten run that our defence was still shit and that we were scrapping through our victories.

    WE

    No worries mate.

    I can only say that I fear the worst because Stan & Jr do not realise that football is not like in US sports. We do not have a safety net. The sooner they realise this the better.

    What I blindly hope is that within 10 years they end up selling us to a more competent owner once they realise that they no longer hold a valuable asset.

    Some say they will never sell as they never have. The odds say that it will be the first time they will be forced to. Of course by that time we have to wonder in what state we will be in by then.

  61. WengerEagle

    He overhauled their league title count [20 to 18] which was pretty amazing considering they trailed Liverpool by 9 league titles when he joined them in 1986 though.

    They hadn’t won the league since 1967 prior to him taking over.

    But yeah, for as great as Fergie was you’d have expected more than 2 CL titles in well over 20 years of European football. Both of which they were fairly fortunate to even win the Finals of given the Bayern stoppage time collapse and JT’s PK miss.

  62. PhD2020

    WengerEagleJune 2, 2019 01:57:23
    The lack of English has never been a gripe of mine with Emery, I don’t personally see it as a major barrier and he was clearly making efforts to improve it which is all you can ask for.Not like we have more than a handful of British lads as it is, language of choice in AW’s heyday was French.
    ——–
    The lack of English is a bullshit argument.

    1)Conte (Did not speak English)-Won EPL with Chelsea
    2)Rafael Benitez(Spanish) -Won CL with Liverpool
    3)Ancelloti(Italian) -Won EPL&FAC with Chelsea
    4)Ranieiri-Came Second with Chelsea
    5)Vialli-(No English-took over from Guillit)-European Cup-Chelsea

    It’s not about English,but about the language of winning.A language we lack,or cannot understand in huge abundance!!!

  63. Marko

    Best we can hope for as Arsenal fans is that the guys doing the recruitment behind the scenes are good enough to make the signings that can help or compensate for the manager and at the same time hope that the current manager can improve on what he inherited so that the next guy has a better chance for success. Baby steps sure but what can you do

  64. Champagne Charlie

    Marko

    Wouldn’t disagree with that. We can make the squad alterations this summer to compete for top 4 next season. This much is 100% the case.

    Question for you: if we produce the same level of Performance this season but win an extra PL game and win the EL final to finish top 4 and win the EL, does Emery get his 3rd season?

  65. WengerEagle

    I mean it’s not a huge risk though Marko is it? If we sacked Emery, what exactly would we be losing that’s oh so difficult to replace?

    Yeah that is what we did last summer, and we shouldn’t regret it for a second. Emery may not be the right man for the job but AW absolutely wasn’t the right man and was driving the club into the ground.

  66. WengerEagle

    TLDB10

    In all seriousness if we’re not careful the likes of Wolves, Everton and Leicester will catch up to us very soon if we keep heading in the same trajectory.

    We’re pretty much witnessing the descent of the club before our very eyes, though a long and painful process.

    AC Milan esque.

  67. PhD2020

    MarkoJune 2, 2019 02:12:52
    Best we can hope for as Arsenal fans is that the guys doing the recruitment behind the scenes are good enough to make the signings that can help or compensate for the manager and at the same time hope that the current manager can improve on what he inherited so that the next guy has a better chance for success. Baby steps sure but what can you do
    ——-
    I think you are deluded.

    The last decade should tell you something.
    If you are looking for underlying metrics..Look at what we have won under the current ownership since 2007 till now versus FSG till now..

    And what benchmarks they have set,and how far behind they were,given we were in CL for almost two decades=non?

    Just have a think and embark on a (self) critical analysis?
    And then ask yourself the honest question,what the f**k happened in between?

  68. Moray

    Just woke up. Well done Liverpool. While the only decent result would have been a huge stadium fire, Spuds being tonked is second best.

    I wonder if Poch will take this moment to leave The club on a high? I doubt they will be back in a final for a long time.

  69. PhD2020

    WengerEagleJune 2, 2019 02:21:25
    TLDB10In all seriousness if we’re not careful the likes of Wolves, Everton and Leicester will catch up to us very soon if we keep heading in the same trajectory.
    ——-
    LOL
    Leicester won the EPL in 2015…

    The descent is downwards already.You know this for sure.It’s just the realisation,the acceptance,the acknowledgement.

    We have dealt with the grieving already…Watching Emery,staring into space after the final whistle,is nothing.

    It will get worse.

  70. TheLegendaryDB10

    PhD

    I fear that UE got blown away by the amount we were ready to pay him and he just through away the 3rd spot on PL in some sort of belief he woukd win the EL.

    I was just shocked by his team selection in the game vs Palace and was really not surprised that we lost. I did not say it here but my instinct thst he through away the game in some misguided belief that he woukd win the EL.

    Well that litteraly blew back in his face as we were abject vs Chelski as no one was up for the game. It was just your usual insipid performance spearheard by the useless Ozil.

  71. PhD2020

    It is not on the manager.

    He’s inherited a bunch of losers,with a loser mentality and culture.

    End of story..

    Cech”If we lose,we win,we lose,we win.”

    Story of Arsenal over two decades…

  72. TheLegendaryDB10

    I just re-read my post and I have to say I have had one tipple too much.

    I just wanted to say that the £6m salary has mesmerized him. To the extent that he just thought, comes the end of the season, that he could just win the EL due to his experience in it. He somehow completely forgot that we were playing Chelski, who already know our “stengths” and weaknesses.

  73. TheLegendaryDB10

    PhD

    I know. The problem is that UE was incapable of changing that culture through any form of charisma. And this became obvious at the tail end of the season and our final vs Chelski.

    But you are right. It has been ingrained in some players that not winning is OK. And thst is all thsnks to AW who was happy to pay absurd salaries to players who were happy with not winning anything.

    I just hope that we somehow find young players who are hungry to win and that we replace the senior players who are just too blasé due to their obscene wages that do not inspire them to push themselves to correct their crap performances.

  74. Moray

    The “not being up for it” is arguably the most worrying for me. We saw this for years under Wenger with the Colney crèche, and it seems that loser mentality is still there. This is something that the inbound hiring team needs to consider seriously. We need some players with a winning mentality or we will continue to fail at the last hurdle. Emery hasn’t shown that he has any answer to this yet.

  75. PieAFC

    The gripe I had with UE all season, was his lack of understanding his own tactics and approach to games.

    I personally, if he has a tried and trusted formation, he and his team use and realized the players we don’t have at Arsenal can play that way.

    Then even if meant playing some of the youth and mould then into what he wanted, this so called high press, counter 4-2-3-1.
    I don’t care how good they are or could be.

    But this square peg round holes, constant changing and clearly lack of understanding even the late stages of the season what looked best as a team for us.

    Playing players that clearly and shouldn’t have been in the team.

    We’re shit. And will continue to be so for years.

    Glory days, bar the odd cup win here and there will suffice for maybe 2-3 years after that. Will fade away even more than we are.

    Whoever said AC MILAN esque, absolutely spot on. An irrelevant old giant….

  76. Moray

    Pie, the point is we’ve been an irrelevant old giant for years. Arguably longer than AC Milan have. It’s nothing new. We’ve been a cup team hanging around 3rd or 4th by dint of being just less shit than the teams just below us. Now they’ve upped their game we are struggling.

    The new regime was supposed to address this, and while nobody expects instant success, there should be a roadmap and markers of success. Instead, we’ve seen a manager making increasingly bizarre team decisions, players failing to step up when needed, a lack of desire and hunger, and a lack of quality throughout. At the moment it is looking like Wenger mark II.

  77. TheLegendaryDB10

    When you think of it FSG’s aim was to win the CL and they did everything to achieve this.

    In contrast us: we fucked up the EL and now have just £45m net to rectify things.

    I am just wondering how they expect us to rectify anything with such a small net spend and when you’ve got cunts like Mustafi who joins the Ozil bandwagon that they are happy at Arsenal (cashing in their paycheck and nothing else).

  78. bennydevito

    What’s really telling about our decline during Wenger’s tenure is that in 20 attempts if failing to win the CL and oy 1 final

    Liverpool have been in 3 finals and won it twice

    Man u have been in 2 finals and won it twice

    Chelsea have been in 2 finals and won it once

    We are not an elite club until we’ve won the CL and I don’t see us winning it for another 20 years either.

  79. bennydevito

    And Liverpool have won it twice without even being the English league champions ffs!!

    Makes a mockery of the whole tournament in my opinion. It really should go back to being the Champions of each European league only.

  80. Leedsgunner

    Wenger the pundit criticising Arsenal for their performance versus Chelsea seems extremely rich coming from him; considering that the Arsene the manager was responsible for so many of our present predicament I think it would be wise for him to keep his counsel.

    Honestly some people have no shame.

  81. Moray

    It’s hardly surprising, DB, when you overpay as we do. Many of our player reject offers because they’re so comfortable with the lack of pressure at Arsenal and the high paycheques. For instance, Jenko’s had multiple offers over the course of his tenure but he will likely run down his Long and inflated contract. Ozil’s situation is nothing new; simply the apogee of our many years of poor contractual management and market valuation of players.

  82. Emiratesstroller

    I have been an advocate that if Arsenal have a limited transfer budget this summer then it is imperative that we focus on bringing in new Centre and
    Left Backs.

    This morning I analysed the games in which Koscielny has played in the first
    team and Arsenal’s record in these games is shocking.

    We lost 3 games in Europa League when he played including 2 when we conceded respectively 3 and 4 goals.

    We lost 7 games starting with Southampton since he played in EPL games.
    We conceded 3 goals in 4 games and 5 goals against Liverpool.

    We lost the game against Man Utd in FA Cup and conceded 3 goals in that match.

    So we have lost 11 games since Christmas in which Koscielny has played and
    conceded 3 goals or more in 8 of them.

    Whilst I would not attribute blame entirely to this player for all our woes this season the fact is that he has played in all the games in which we have conceded 3 goals or more.

  83. Leedsgunner

    Watching Liverpool last night I felt a measure of relief and envy. Relief that Tottenham will again end the season trophyless and envy that within 15 years Liverpool has won the UCL twice.

    I wonder if we’ll have to wait for Kronke to sell up before we win our own trophy in that competition.

    Sigh.

  84. Biggles

    World class bottle jobbing from spurs last night. Anthony Joshua a spurs fan by any chance?

    Man of the match for me was Allison. I don’t think any of the saves were truly out of this world, but so consistent. Karius cost them last season. Klopp didn’t Wenger it by sticking with Karius for 4 seasons Almunia style.

    I’m hoping Spurs repeat our history with a stadium move, CL final defeat and subsequent slide into mediocrity. If they lose a couple of players and can’t replace them with as good or better they’ll be shafted.

    As for us… I think we need to accept a season or two of mediocrity and no Europe to get back to the top. Our midfield and defence is Europa league quality at best, maybe not even that with ageing defenders and rivals spending. I don’t think £45m will bridge the gap back to the top 4. But I think if you bin Ozil, Mikki, Xhaka, Mustafi, Elneny and Monreal, along with the departures of Cech, Licht, Welbeck and Ramsey… You’ve freed up £1.235m a week in wages. Between what’s left and kids along with what we can pick up on the cheap, we would probably finish ~12th. It would be painful, but at least that is us mostly reset from there on.

    That’s the point where you pick a formation you want and start buying players to fit it. Where you can create an identity and style from youth teams to first team. And have sensible contract structure in place. I’d love to see this all done this summer but with no technical director in place and the level of amputation required, I see it taking two or three summers and the expiry of contracts to happen rather than us cashing in.

  85. Receding Hairline

    Clubs like Dortmund making smart moves, we on the other hand are planning a meeting with the manager to tell him that funds are limited.

    Plotting 4m moves for 26year old CB/LB from Basel Eder Balanta. Long summer ahead.

  86. Pierre

    Stroller
    “Whilst I would not attribute blame entirely to this player for all our woes this season the fact is that he has played in all the games in which we have conceded 3 goals or more.”

    There blame lies on one man …Emery, no doubt about that as it was obvious that Kosielny was struggling.

    So why did the manager play him so much , he could have used him sparingly.
    No excuses.

    The options were

    Play 4 at the back instead of continually using 3 centre backs.
    January window should have brought in at least one centre back on loan like Gary Cahill as we had a mini injury crisis in January instead of bringing a player in which we didn’t need.
    Could/should have used Mavropanos more as he was fit and strong , an essential element to being an effective centre back…was also a serious lack of judgement not to have him in the Europa squad.
    Play Mustafi who has very good stats this season despite being error prone and is fit and strong.

    Just watching Kosielny one could see that he was a struggling , the injuries had taken their toll and to continually use him for 90 minutes was a serious lack of judgement.

    So please ,no excuses for Emery as he had ample chance to bring in a defender during the January window…

  87. Ivan

    ES

    Kos is 33yr old CB returned from horrific injury and thrown into mixer when Holding got injured.

    Sokratis being only dependable CB most of our season speaks volumes of our defence.

    It really shows how arsenal neglected defense for a decade or so.

  88. Akkimaniac

    Did you know Pochettin in spanish means cup or trophy. The “0” in Pochettin0 is the number of trophies he’s won. When he wins something he will call himself Pochettin1.

  89. Pierre

    Ivan
    No excuses as the January window was open when we had defensive injury problems .

    It was obvious that our manager didn’t regard defence as being of primary importance during that period .

    He obviously doesn’t rate of trust Mavropanos , he obviously doesn’t rate or trust any of our academy defenders so why didn’t he go all out to bring in someone to cover instead of looking at wide players.

  90. Emiratesstroller

    Pierre

    The hard facts are that Arsenal have neglected their defence since Wenger
    arrived at the club.

    He relied on the defence put together by George Graham and recruited Campbell on a Bosman.

    Apart from these players he did not invest properly in this department of our
    team. Most of the fullbacks were converted wingers and the centre backs
    were often players picked up from obscure teams most of whom were frankly
    second rate.

    Sokratis was recruited last Summer, but otherwise the defence is more or less the same as last year when we also conceded a lot of goals.

    Emery tried to resolve the problem through experimentation of three centre
    backs or four at back. Neither formation is watertight.

    The reality is that once Holding got injured our options in central defence were limited.

    It is imperative that Arsenal bring in at least one proven Centre Back to
    replace Koscielny and a Left Back to replace Monreal.

    Two replacements is not going to solve all our defensive problems, but it is
    a start.

  91. Guns of Hackney

    As suspected, people more happy with Spurs losing than Arsenal winning. This is small club mentality.

    The equivalent of keying your neighbours new Mercedes AMG because they make more money than you.

    Another rather odd thing is you supported Liverpool. Let that sink in…

  92. RGG

    The Kronkes are disgustibg, greed driven scum…….

    They are Trump supporters for God’s sake. They are pieces of shit…..

    Burn the US flag at EVErY game…turn it into a ritual…….chant anti US, anti Trump, anti Kronke songs all match…make the Emirates a place right wing yank scum like the Kronkes are afraid to go to ….. We will be rid of them in 2 years, probably less. ….. .

  93. Pierre

    Stroller

    you was making the point of continually using Kosielny for the last 4 months of the season and I gave you options that the manager could have used.

    Holding was injured before Christmas so if the defensive options were limited then why not bring in a replacement in January to give him more options and then you blame it on the previous manager.

    No point in blaming the last 4 months of the season on what happened for the last 2 decades.
    Emery brought in 5 defensive based players and the defence was worse than ever.

    There are literally no excuses for not bringing in cover defensively and bringing in a player ( suarez) in a position that we were well stocked.

  94. Emiratesstroller

    GoH

    Personally I did not give a hoot about yesterday’s game between Liverpool and
    Spurs. The standard of football was pretty awful and to be perfectly honest I
    don’t think that either team is unbeatable by Arsenal.

    However, that will only be the case if Arsenal are ruthless in their cull of players and then methodical in recruitment and promotion of new squad personnel.

    I think that Emery understands very well what he needs to do. The million dollar question is whether the owner and Board are willing to provide financial resources to put house in order.

  95. Freddie Ljungberg

    Pierre

    We didn’t have money in january you fucktard, how many hundreds of times do you need that explained to you?

    Maybe unwrap yourself from your cumfilled Ozil posters they’re blocking your information receptors.

    Was it Emerys fault that we only have 3 competent defenders at the club and 2 of them got injured after less than half the season?

    We didn’t buy 5 defensive players either.

    We bought a new number 1 keeper, which was sorely needed, a DM and a CB that’s been the best in their positions and a prospect CM that’s had to play too much because our other options suck.

    Licht doesn’t count, he was a stop gap that didn’t work out.

    Our whole backline needs ripping up, and our midfield, a couple of low level signings was never going to fix 10 years of neglect.

  96. RGG

    My post was over the top……

    Apologies to offended Americans….burning flags is rubbish…sorry.

    Just fucking hate Kronkes and Trump

    Well done Lpool….was well chuffed they won

  97. Guns of Hackney

    ES

    Emery doesn’t have a clue what to do, I’m afraid. If Arsenal give this clown another season, we will be fighting mid table mediocrity by December. I’m sorry but this chap needs to go ASAP.

  98. terraloon

    “But I think if you bin Ozil, Mikki, Xhaka, Mustafi, Elneny and Monreal, along with the departures of Cech, Licht, Welbeck and Ramsey… You’ve freed up £1.235m a week in wages. Between what’s left and kids along with what we can pick up on the cheap, we would probably finish ~12th. It would be painful, but at least that is us mostly reset from there on.”

    Agree with all that save the last sentence.

    It’s odd that so many rate the youngsters so highly and often can’t see that the majority of those players who are brought through or bought on the cheap do ok to start with then once other clubs coaches have time to assess then they generally have a plan how to expose their weakness’s . It’s happened time after time and was clearly evident on Wednesday in the way that Chelsea’s targeted AMN .
    Remember Coquelin? AW played him as a defensive midfielder and by and large for half a season the headlines were that at long last that missing link had been found but slowly yet surely he was found out big time.
    Or how about Campbell,Chambers ( who despite what some think shouldn’t be near to a club with real ambition) Bielik. The list goes on
    What is a concern is the current crop . Ok Willock did well enough in Baku but that was as a sub against a tiring defence and he was by and large a surprise but it’s far too early for it to be suggested that he is anywhere near being ready similarly despite the bright start Guendezoi is nowhere near the quality to be getting the number of games he has yep he did well as an unknown but as the season progressed he was in effect found out.
    It’s been said time after time the squad is weak and not balanced, the defence is shocking the only bright lights are Lacazette and Aubameyang and yet some talk about selling which I suspect will happen either because of their contracts running down, their ages or to fund other “ bargains “ who yet again will flatter to deceive.
    Next season, with Hazard leaving and the transfer ban at Chelsea, it should be a given that they will finish below Arsenal. Yet they have a huge talent pool of loanees who could make a difference. The likes of Zouma will fill gaps in their squad and for them the imminent change of rules limiting the number of players out on loan will not be a negative but will probably see them sell between 10&15 players with the money raised when added to the fee they will receive for Hazard reaching between £200& £300 million. If they do get a stay on the ban then then one or two class players added to loan returnees and the likes of Rudiger,CHO and RLC returning from injury will probably put them out of sight as far as Arsenal are concerned.
    With the likes of Leicester, Wolves, Everton and possibly Newcastle spending big and looking to improve things are only going to get harder.

  99. Arsnil

    Its all about the players at your disposal. The overall vision you have as to the type of football you play. Liverpool and Man. City who are now way ahead of the rest and buy skilful players that are fast with huge engines and an insatiable work ethic. Go back to the Invincibles and we were excatly the same.
    Yes, Man. City have huge money backing them but a good number of their signings are on a lot less that Ozil per week. Ozil etc. would not be tolerated at these two clubs or most clubs. He would be looked on as a malaise that can quickly spread and had to be got rid of.
    The level of our ambition is that we signed Lichsteiner at 35 years of age last summer. From top to bottom the club is in terminal decline.
    After the final in Baku one contributor put up a post which summed up the lethargy in the club.
    “Ozil get warmed up, you’re coming off.”

  100. Emiratesstroller

    Freddie Ljungberg

    At last someone on the same hymn sheet.

    Despite his poor performance against Chelsea I would not write off Maitland-Niles as understudy for Bellerin. I think that under right tutelage he can improve as a wing back, but he needs to learn how to defend positionally.

  101. Pierre

    Fred
    “We didn’t buy 5 defensive players either.We bought a new number 1 keeper, which was sorely needed, a DM and a CB that’s been the best in their positions and a prospect CM that’s had to play too much because our other options suck.Licht doesn’t count, he was a stop gap that didn’t work out.”

    Yep , 5 defensive based players , thanks for confirming that…..Lichsteiner does count by the way.

    You keep making an idiot of yourself defending the Suarez signing if you want …anyone with a football brain would have known that we needed defensive cover in January not another player in the mould of Ramsey, ozil, Mhkitaryan.

  102. Freddie Ljungberg

    Who is defending the Suarez signing? It didn’t work out, it was a loan, he was our 3-4th choice he’s already gone, no long term harm done.

    Count that way if it makes you feel better Pierre, you’re just here to troll anyway so keep being a fuckwit.

    To fix the defence and midfield left over by Wenger we would have had to sign 8 starters instead of the 3 we signed, obviously not going to happen with a 63m budget in one summer.

    Most of the players we have aren’t even good enough to keep as squad players so a lot of work to be done, but keep fixating on the manager, maybe it will heal your broken heart and fill that void that your Ozil posters clearly can’t

  103. Emiratesstroller

    Pierre

    Look you can blame the Head Coach for all the ills at the club.

    The reality is that he has inherited a mess that was not of his making.

    Also we were told last year that the people responsible for recruitment and contracts were Gazidis, Sanhelli and Mislintat. So its doubtful that Emery was
    instrumental in recruiting Leno, Lichteiner, Torreira and Sokratis.

    When Arsenal made material changes to its senior management I made the
    case that in all probability the chemistry might not work and so it has proved.
    Both Gazidis and Mislintat have left.

    My guess is that the revolution is far from over.

  104. Pierre

    Fred and stroller

    Feel free to carry on defending Emery , you will regret it next season when our performances deteriorate even more.

    He won’t have the luxury of a 22 game unbeaten run to fall back on next season,

    Blaming Kosielny is ( as you would say) frankly ridiculous ….. He should never have been on the pitch game after game, he should have been used sparingly ,

    it was the manager’s decision to put all his faith in Kosielny

    It was the manager’s decision not to sign a defender on loan in January.

    It was the manager’s decision not to have Mavropanos in the Europa league squad.

    It was the manager’s decision to change from the successful early season 4-2-3-1 to wing backs .

  105. Ishola70

    Pierre

    “He won’t have the luxury of a 22 game unbeaten run to fall back on next season,”

    Probably not.

    He won’t have the same run of fixtures again especially away from home.

    Always said that unbeaten run was being over-rated and looked better on paper than it actually was.

    What it does mean though is that Arsenal are of a certain standard and if they get their act together with some new signings then they can challenge for top four again next season.

    But top four more likely 4th place is the pinnacle now and that certainly isn’t on Emery. It’s on the previous incumbents who were satisfied with just getting CL places and never willing to try to push on from that. If you stand still on a tightrope you are going to fall off.

  106. Pierre

    Stroller
    “Look you can blame the Head Coach for all the ills at the club.”

    of course I am not blaming the manager for all the ills at the club but your urinal point was to blame Emery for the poor results and goals conceded and I think it is unfair as he was overused by the manager.

    It was yet another error of judgement by the manager, one of many this season that could have been avoided.

    Just out of interest stroller ….I made the point about the manager giving Ozil a man marking role on jorginho in the final , have you any explanation as to why the manager would give such a role to our most creative player when he could easily have given the role to iwobi or Guendouzi.

    I will add that despite the criticism he receive afterwards , Ozil did stick to his role, especially in the first half as he and jorginho were rarely more than 5 yards apart.

    What are your thoughts regarding this very strange tactical decision by the manager.

  107. Freddie Ljungberg

    Yes it was the managers decisions, because we lack options.
    We can’t play 4 at the back with AMN and Kola, Monreal can’t play as LB anymore and barely as CB

    Our alternative to Kos as CB was the terrible Mustafi so a lose lose situation.

    He obviously felt Mavro isn’t ready and by his brief cameo he’s probably right.

    It was the managers decision to not sign a CB in january, if you mean the former manager that pissed away all our money on shite players and their over the top salaries.

    If we have the same crappy players stinking the place up next season it doesn’t matter who the manager is, I would expect us to fall to 6-7th place at best since everyone around us will strengthen their teams and we have neglected ours for years.

    Emery is not the biggest problem at the club, Ozil and his lackluster performances is (and no, that’s not on the manager, he’s been declining for a while) but yet you can’t go 5 minutes without defending him.

  108. Ishola70

    Pierre

    I know that you think highly of Hazard as well as Ozil.

    Please can you compare these two players that you like in terms of influence on a team.

  109. Freddie Ljungberg

    Ozil didn’t man mark Jorghino, he was just hiding in his shadow, shirking responsibility as always.

    Most creative player? Keep living in the past Pierre

  110. Pierre

    Fred
    “Emery is not the biggest problem at the club, Ozil and his lackluster performances is (and no, that’s not on the manage)”

    the manager is the most important person at a football club , selling Ozil won’t change a thing , I’m sure Emery can find another player to shadow Jorginho around the pitch next season .

  111. Bob N16

    Pierre, when you’ve got Mustafi waiting in the wings I would defend Emery’s choice of playing Koscielny. It’s obvious to most people that our malaise does not sadly rest in one area. When Wenger was still around, he took almost all the blame. When he left Gazidis took a fair share, he’s gone so Kroenke and Emery get more of the attention. However the greatest area of weakness is the squad. I’m not convinced by Emery but he’s not a magician.

    Hopefully Sanhelli has identified the dross (hardly difficult) as well as some promising talent. Hope a DoF can start the return to the top. Hope Edu is coming(someone would have been identified!) and he’s already chatting away with Sanhelli and the turnaround begins this TW.

    I agree with the posters who feel getting rid of Ozil ( and Mhiki et al) is a statement the club means business.

  112. Freddie Ljungberg

    Selling Ozil would change everything, we could have 3 players actually contributing on his wages instead of being a man down every time Ozil plays. It’s the single most important thing we can do this summer. Need to get rid of a fair few of his buddies too of course if we want some progress.

  113. Bob N16

    Pierre, were Ozil and Jorginho marking each other? Whatever the story to make out that Ozil is not responsible for another insipid performance because he was following orders is fanciful at best.

  114. Receding Hairline

    Man marking Jorginho is not the reason why our 350k playmaker had a 2/10 season. He wasn’t asked to man mark Jorginho all season.

    How many tackles did he make on Jorginho? How many recoveries? The commentator only mentioned his name once before he was subbed. Emery actually deserves a lot of criticism for leaving him on the pitch for as long as he did.