Emery’s numbers look very bad

by .

Day two and the pain is still pretty intense.

I find the defence of the manager quite baffling, especially considering how strong the evidence of his failings has been. Underlying and data and literally what you’ve been watching all season tells a clear story. So spare the detailed unpicking of his body language or the theorising over why he said nothing in the changing room after the game.

Granit Xhaka, a man who has been front and centre for most of the experience is even a touch deluded about it all.

“I think we had a good season, if you take off the five last games in the Premier League.”

Oh my Granit, oh my. That said, he refused to answer the question as to whether we improved this season under Unai Emery. Well Granit, I can answer you, simply, no we didn’t.

I’m stealing some of Gambon’s posts that explicitly lay this out with hard numbers.

By all accounts, the above is pretty shocking. You can say what you will about Arsene Wenger, but it was clear the problem with him in his last 2-3 seasons was his drifting further and further away from the basics. We mostly blamed poor tactics, a lack of preparation, a blindness to squad needs (which Sven went a way to fixing) and a loss of fire that once drove him to greatness.

When we hired in the new person, we hired in a ‘coach.’ The point of a coach is that they should have the ability to move the club forward without spending £400m. We even had the argument last year that we couldn’t hire in someone like Allegri because he’d want NOW money. Emery was the coach. Training would be high energy, he was a prep machine and he wouldn’t allow the players to be cowards.

So aside from it being clear that performance indicators have dipped, and it being obvious that the culture of the club hasn’t been shifted in an entire year, the other item people keep on comparing to is Liverpool.

Klopp came in, moved Liverpool from 10th to 8th. A poor return they say, that was rectified with time, money and patience. Yes, but remember, those three elements are a reward for tangible progress.

Again, we are in single data point territory. Football fans are utterly terrible with stats, so let me paint a picture using someone else’s.

Just to add to the above. As the season wore on, Klopp’s Liverpool side greatly improved. His team scored 52% of its entires PL seasons goals in the last 13 games. The fans were being electrified with rock and roll football. You could clearly see that without buying players, that Klopp was impacting the players, the culture and the energy around the club.

Additionally harping back to the goals conceded issue, I find it slightly worrying that we’re expecting a coach with limited defensive pedigree to fix our defence. At Sevilla, over his three seasons in which he finished 5th, 5th and 7th… he averagely shipped 49 goals a year. He look over a defence at PSG that had conceded 19 goals, when it was handed over, it clocked up to 27, then 29 in his final year.

‘BUT WHO WOULD COME TO ARSENAL FOR £6M A YEAR’

I have to tell you Arsenal fans, this is the most middle class ‘I live in a bubble’ comment I read.

Arsenal is a powerhouse club. You can bitch about it, you can say its dead, you can say we’re not attractive… but you’d be so fucking wrong. If Liverpool can attract Jurgen Klopp to live on Merseyside with a team that was sitting in 10th, with the promise of zero net spend for 2 full seasons, then Arsenal are not going to have a problem hiring in a top manager to take us forward.

Yes, the owner didn’t go to the game. But really, what are you bitching about there? Its YOUR sentimentality you’re whining about. Stan K isn’t in the day to day of any of his clubs, and why would you want him to be? Raul and Vinai run the show.

Stan can be called many things, but uninterested seems a bit of a meek jab. He invested as much of Arsenal’s self-generated money as he could have, we are the 3rd highest net spenders in the league over 5 years and we have spent more net than Madrid over 10 years. We have a £230m wage bill compared to Spurs at £140m. We fired Arsene Wenger and his team at a cost of £17m last year. Stan signed off on Ozil at £350k a week. We built a new structure at the club at great expense, and to be fair, the structure is modern and forward thinking. We paid £2m for a head of high performance. We brought in Sven for £2m a year. We revamped the training facilities at great expense. We are not lacking money and the myth that Stan is all about profit just doesn’t stack up against any sort of inspection.

‘he should write us a cheque for players!’

Look at what is happening to Manchester City with regards to flooding the club with cash injections that are allegedly not what they seem.

Anyway, my point being is this: It’s poor leadership to look at what Emery has done in his year, and think the right move is to carry on as is.

He was hired as a coach, his coaching has taken us backwards.

The easiest and most impactful thing we can do is change the manager. Rethink what we’ve lacked and make a bold decision. We will call it the Bruce Rioja moment.

We need a true leader. Someone who will bring some swagger back to the club. We need someone who the players want to fight for. Someone players desperately want to play under because they know they will improve. Someone in the mould of you know who down the road.

We also need someone with a distinct vision of how the game should be played. Emery’s chameleon approach is non-committal. How many teams have successfully been able to implement both possession football and counter-attacking at the same time? It’d be a monumental achievement to make that happen, and we certainly couldn’t do that on a budget.

My big worry is clearing out problematic players is all well and good, but if you are replacing into a blurred vision of football, you are actually further damaging the club. Emeryball is awful to watch. It’s not the next level. But we appear to be going hard at giving a failing manager the keys to our next 3 years. That is a terrifying prospect.

Is chameleon football part of The Arsenal DNA?

I had hoped not.

I was hoping that the good bits Wenger left would remain. I want Arsenal to play the most electric brand of football on the planet. I want Arsenal to embark on a transfer policy that prioritises the best young players that boast extreme technical capabilities, combined with outrageous power and pace. Give me what Ajax and Dortmund have, but bump it up two notches.

Instead, we’ll fall back on ‘class’, which is code for ‘lack of ambition’, and we’ll kick to tough decision can down the road for next season.

It’s a brutally miserable view, but the MD of the club apparently sent out an e-mail asking for people to get some perspective on yesterday. Someone ask Petr Cech whether that happens at CFC after an appalling showing at a final? Barcelona? Madrid?

The real perspective is we’re not built for success. We have a fancy structure, but as I keep on saying, if you do not fill that with the very best people, you are in trouble.

That said, the one HUGE positive I can give you is the noise around Edu is very positive. Firstly, there’s no kingmaker aspect to this hire. Raul is hiring him in because he’s good. You don’t do great things at Corinthians, then take a job with Brazil to be told by Raul you have to sign Ever Banega. Edu also has a lot of sauce about him, the guy looks money, and he knows the DNA of Arsenal and Brazil.

… but he has to be allowed to take an axe to the substandard people at Arsenal. He has to implement a vision, set aggressive targets and hold people accountable for delivering them. We cannot continue to skip along into the footballing abyss pretending our problems are going to be solved by throwing a boatload of cash at people that don’t know how to send it.

Right, that’s me done, see you in the comments.

745 Responses to “Emery’s numbers look very bad”

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  1. Valentin

    @RH,

    Where people allowed to vote the manager out as well?

    Nobody said that the team was perfect and could not be improved. The main question is Emery the man to make the necessary improvement?

    I am willing to bet that if you were to take a poll among Arsenal fans, a clear majority would say no.

  2. Champagne Charlie

    “You’re the freaking drama queen looking for strength in an email that was sent to soothe distressed fans at the club.
    You’ weren’t talking about “delivering” yesterday, just some silly email that was sent.“

    I literally posted a link to the report on the email and said “good grief”.

    You jumped in with your typical contrarian nonsense defending Vinai and telling all and sundry not to read into anything etc etc.

    You then asked what I’d expect to be written and I answered, to which you went tight lipped. Jamie voiced his thoughts, Tony the same, among others. It was nothing more than a throwaway appraisal of what I consider insipid leadership. It’s you that’s made an issue out of it by being so utterly obtuse and resistant to anyone dissenting (ironically).

  3. Valentin

    @Marko,

    Where did you read that people behind the scene have doubt about Emery?

    If you can’t name your source, less charitable people would say that you are making things up…

  4. Receding Hairline

    Contact Sky and ask for a poll on the manager Valentin

    Seeing as your choice for manager are from mid table French sides I would rather give Emery an extension. Your fascination with the young and untested for a major rebuilding job is worrying

  5. TR7

    ‘TR7 I should ignore papa and cech, ignore my own eyes and take your word for it that ten games in it was clear Emery will fail?’

    Just ignore your own eyes and everything else will start making sense 🙂

    Matic and Herrera were giving sound bites defending/lauding Mourinho’s work a week before he was eventually sacked. You don’t expect a player to say negative stuff against his boss in the press, do you ?

  6. Receding Hairline

    From most reports seems the Meuneir rumours has legs. Apparently Emery has been talking to him for a month.

    So not only are they not sacking him, they are letting him bring in players he fancies. The “bland” man is driving the rebuild.

  7. azed

    TR7

    May be because two out of the starting back 4 got injured mid way through the season. Your original question was did our defence look organized and they answer is yes when we had Bellerin and Holding. Nobody can say how it would have turned out if they didn’t get injured but denying there was any form organization is a flat out lie.

    Why doesn’t city look more vulnerable when Fernandinho doesn’t play? Is it because Pep is a bad coach or because what Fernandinho brings to the table isn’t coachable?

    Emery has not been know to use a back 3 in his coaching career but he used a lot this season because the player had required him to change.

  8. Receding Hairline

    TR7 you were the one on here Wednesday lauding the manager and players for a well played first half on Wednesday, a half where we didn’t have a short on target, for a guy who can see a season after just 10 games its baffling you didn’t see the second half thrashing coming

  9. Jamie

    That memo was weak shit, let’s be serious.

    Argue about xG, squad strength and Emery all summer, but that memo belongs in the bin with Ozil’s crybaby tissues. This is professional sport at the top level. If it’s too much for mentally weak players, they can drop down a level and play where there’s less pressure.

    My 2 cents.

  10. englandsbest

    What I don’t like about Brendan R is his habit of cozying up, of buttering up his leading player (like Stevie G) getting him on his side. That betrays a lack of self-belief (something that Wenger never suffered from).

    Fergie and Jose did the same, but not from lack of self-belief. Their motive was team discipline. Tough blokes like Roy Keane and John Terry kept the players in order for them. Somehow I found that okay, whereas Brendan R struck me as sly.

    After his spell at Celtic maybe he has gained enough self-confidence to be straight with players. Let’s see how it plays out at Leicester.

  11. Dissenter

    Jamie
    The point is that you want to wait for actions
    There’s no memo that can be sensible right now. The only things that speak with clarity are actions.

  12. Dissenter

    I have a foreboding about tomorrow’s game
    Just dark feelings that we are about to be eclipsed and that we will forever be the banter club.

  13. Jamie

    Dissenter –

    I hear you. It’s just not what I would’ve sent.

    Nothing about last season was good. Far too many weak passengers in the club, so giving it the ‘we are arsenal’ after a 4-1 tanking in a final vs our local rivals was for the pussies who, in my view, should’t be pandered to. They should be frightened they’re on the sell list while they’re trying to make holiday plans.

  14. MidwestGun

    Well Damn… good on the Le Grove faithful for being able to muster up the intestinal fortitude to talk about transfers and whatnot.. To be honest I can’t; fine the strength right now to give much of a care at all. That was devastating to our progress.

    And Pedro is 100% correct we the fans need for Arsenal to give the fans something to be excited about.. Whether it be a marquee signing.. getting rid of the manager.. clearing out the top 4 highest earning players and bringing in 8 new players… Whatever … just give us something….because right now there is not one thing on the team that excites me and gives me hope. Not one player.

    I mean I love Lacazette as a person and he seems ultra cool as a person. I would want to hang with him at the pub. . And he was the only one who seemed to give a shit in the final. But every time he received the ball .. Chelsea fouled him… essentially taking him out of the game. And that’s probably what we have to look forward to next season. Other then that nothing… Emery does nothing for me.. nada.

    And there needs to be accountability for losing… Some heads need to roll.. and some players need cleared out.. It needs to be shown that losing that final was not acceptable.. The business as usual vibe is what I’m getting so far out of the Club communication .. and I don’t like it.

    Project youth 3.0 doesn’t for me either sorry.. Haven’t seen one youth player I have been excited by… a few look passable.. Last youth player I was excited about was Gnabry.. Because he could beat his man with a burst of pace and he could shoot. None of our youth seem to be able to do that.. barring Iwobi’s miracle shot of course. Squirrel finding a blind nut and all that.

    Anyhow.. Go Pool… this is what it has come down to… rooting for the scousers in the CL. sad but true.

  15. Cesc Appeal

    MidWest

    I get a bit sick of the stupidity of players like Lacazette, Aubameyang, Guendouzi etc particularly the former two with regards to social media, on the training ground etc.

    All well and good fellas when you’re flying but when you’ve taken a club from UCL to Europa League and you continually bottle maybe less of the chat and fucking around.

    It’s like seeing Elneny give it the big one in training, fucking around, shouting and screaming and you think you are an absolute nothing.

    I don’t like the little Ozil, Mustafi, Elneny group either. The ‘aren’t we so hard done by’ gang.

    I honestly think Sanllehi, Emery, Edu etc are going to tear it up this summer. I’d expect to see a good number of players go on top of Cech, Ramsey and Welbeck who have already gone. I would think 4-6 arrivals as well.

    I do think Emery is just here for the club to gets its house in order. Get that wage bill under control, build a squad with a system in mind, create balance in the squad, meritocratic wages and an injection of youth and physicality before looking at a Nagelsmann, Vieira, Nuno etc.

  16. Marko

    If you can’t name your source, less charitable people would say that you are making things up…

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-7088185/Arsenals-finances-disarray-missing-Champions-League-means-45m-spend.html

    The club knew his first season would be transitional following the departure of Arsene Wenger after 22 years at the club.

    However, there are a number of dissenting voices behind the scenes who believe the club are no further forward than they were under the Frenchman.

    There you go liar.

  17. Marc

    “Seeing as your choice for manager are from mid table French sides I would rather give Emery an extension”

    As it stands it doesn’t look like the club will sack Emery this summer, however that’s not an extension for Emery he has a year left on his contract with an option for the club to extend by a year.

    If he doesn’t make CL next season he’ll be gone. If he’s tanking at Christmas he might even struggle to finish the season.

  18. Marko

    Mid it helps to be utterly numb to how shit Arsenal truly are. You get used to it. And frankly now that Arsene’s gone we can talk about transfers and know that there’s actually a possibility of signings. Not getting champions league doesn’t change the fact that we need to be busy this summer. It just makes it that much harder

  19. MidwestGun

    Cesc-
    How are you my friend? been a minute.. Yeah sorry to be a downer right now… but that was especially bad… worst part about it was I watching the match with my brother and his friends.. Chekski supporters.. yeah I know .. it was my own fault..

    But they went on for like an hour before the game about how much their players and manager don’t give a sh.it and how easy it would be for us.. I was like yeah right you still have Hazard. And then we had that performance from our team. Sarri schooled Emery in the second half he made the adjustments at halftime and Emery didn’t change anything.

    Oh well… now I’m rehashing it.. hahhaha

    This summer has a lot to live up to.. thinking it will probably let me down. I mean I’m a Gooner so I always hold out some hope… not sure why.. some sort of weird ingrained thing.

  20. Marko

    Can I say that it is nice to have CA back. A sane voice in a sea of absolute twats and gives free legal advice

  21. Marc

    Cesc

    I agree – I really think Emery is seen as a reliable safe pair of hands to man the wheel whilst we make major changes.

    Some will mock that but you only have to look at ManU to see what happens if you stick someone unsuitable in charge – so far they’re on number 4.

  22. zimmie2652

    If the Sun is remotely to be believed, Viera has appeared as a shock candidate for the Chelski job.

  23. Marc

    Midwest

    Fuck sake do you know what you’ve done? You’ve just reminded me that next weekend I’m at a family do – joint Birthday for my brother and niece. His brother in law might be there – he’s fucking Chelsea.

    I’d forgotten all about it – thanks for fucking up my weekend!

  24. Cesc Appeal

    MidWest

    Yeah not exactly great, absolutely crushed the other night thinking of Upamecano, Umtiti, Zaha, Partey etc all slipping away.

    I think we will be alright this summer…don’t know why, just do.

    I think it’s the end of the line for some piles of shit like Ozil, Mustafi, Elneny etc.

    By August I just want to see the overpaid shit gone, Ozil, Mustafi, Elneny, Mkhitaryan, Jenkinson, Chambers, Kolasinac etc. I want to see an injection of youth and physicality into the side with some youngsters like Nelson and Willock given a go as well.

    I feel for Emery slightly in that his squad options and injuries have severely limited him.

    The fact he is a 4-2-3-1 manager was so well known it was actually a stick to beat him with last summer. This year he’s tried 4-2-3-1, 4-3-3, 4-2-2-2, 4-4-1-1, 4-1-2-1-2, 3-4-3 and 3-5-2 I really think it’s down to just trying to find something functional, something that gets the best out of the shitty parts that make up this squad.

    Not helped in defence by losing the only player we have that is even remotely close to a fullback for half the season in Bellerin and also a starting CB in Holding.

    If someone told you you’d take over a defence that conceded 51 last year and has steadily been getting worse, but you will only get a £12 Million CB and then I will take away 50% of your starting defence half way through the season….pretty shit.

    Start with that, tear it out and start again. Like the links to Meunier, hopefully that happens quickly. 6ft 3, steady RB going forward and in defence, bit of physicality into the side.

  25. Nelson

    @DAZ
    “the kroenke’s are a joke we dont need to analyse any further”

    That I fully agree. The way he “laisse faire” is setting the culture of the cup. Look at our two strikers. They openly showing their friendship. In any other team, they would be competing for the same starting position. Also seeing Ozil looking so relax after the substitution really made me sick. The TV camera then showed a father and son Arsenal fans in the stand. The son was weeping and the father was trying to console his son. What a stark contrast!

  26. MidwestGun

    Marc-
    At least he is an in-law … My brother I cant get rid of… I mean I banned him from wearing a Drogba shirt anywhere near me… but that’s the best I could do.

  27. Marc

    Marko

    One point re the link you posted. It’s easy to get caught up in the negativity but that article is talking about a £45 million transfer budget vs £90. Now whilst I’d be all over having the extra £45 million do you really think an extra £45 million would solve all of our problems?

    What ever the outcome of Wednesday the players we sell and move on this summer were always going to have a huge effect of what we can do. We just need Sanllehi to do it better now.

  28. Cesc Appeal

    Marko

    Thanks, mate.

    Like Marc said though, careful or Pedro will wield the axe! Haha.

    The state of this place sometimes though, beggar belief what has been allowed to fester on here.

    Marc

    I agree.

    Not to mention this club was in disarray.

    No DoF, no TD, no behind the scenes infrastructure of any kind because the last manager wouldn’t allow it…knowing he would be sacked if he did.

    He was right to be fair. Mislintat came in in November, Sanllehi in February and Wenger was sacked in April.

    £230 Million wage bill, £60 Million in available funds, no real room to move on wages because of FFP.

    The rebuild at Arsenal is huge and without a cash injection it will take time.

    Emery was the smartest choice, will forever defend Arsenal for the choice when compared to Arteta or Vieira who would have sunk like a boulder in this environment.

    Emery is a man who can get on with it, will keep Arsenal fighting for UCL while massive behind the scenes changes take place ready for us to then take a risk and try to implement a vision.

  29. MidwestGun

    Cesc-
    If we ever play 3 at the back ever again… I will be sick.. Absolutely terrible formation and inherently weak.. Chelsea took one half to figure it out and I’m surprised it took that long..

    I would like to see us play a 4-3 -3. Or a hybridized 4diamond 2 like Pool play at times.

  30. Marc

    Cesc

    Vieira might one day be a legendary Arsenal manager – I’d love it if he did.

    Arteta might one day be a manager (sorry Pedro).

    But the fact is neither had the experience to take on board the job Arsenal presented last summer.

  31. azed

    “I would like to see us play a 4-3 -3. Or a hybridized 4diamond 2 like Pool play at times.”

    If your fullbacks are AMN and Kolasinac, you might as well forfeit the game.

  32. MidwestGun

    Imo, As long as Ozil and Xhaka are part of the starting squad.. we are screwed.. Not even counting the back 4. So… that’s part of the pessimism because I think they will still be here.

  33. azed

    45 Million is small but if we can sell well, we can get the base for a new team.

    Xhaka + Elneny = 1 solid CM
    Mustafi + Chambers = 1 solid CB.

  34. Cesc Appeal

    Jamie

    Thanks, mate.

    It’s nice to see there’s still a few decent posters around, yourself included obviously.

    Maybe the summer will bring some more back? But there are some absolute colostomy bags on here which might keep them away.

    MidWest

    Agreed.

    But then he didn’t have a choice. No fullbacks and a pussy with legs as a CAM which meant no build up through the centre against anyone aside from the shite at home.

    No wingers either meaning all width has to come from wing backs who then can’t actually cross.

    This season has felt like tethered swimming.

    Agree on 4-3-3. Said that since last summer. Powerful middle 3 (one holder two B2B), pacey froward 3 with one more creative type pushed to the flank.

  35. Marc

    “No wingers either meaning all width has to come from wing backs who then can’t actually cross.”

    That’s the issue with the formation changes. Emery seems to have spent a season trying to find a way to create some width when we have next to none. It’ didn’t help when Bellerin got injured – wasn’t he top assist maker at the time of his injury?

  36. Cesc Appeal

    ‘#AFC has the lowest squad market value and the highest staff cost/revenue ratio among the ‘big six’ according to
    @wef’

    It’s been said for years, we were an appallingly run club with all power vested in a man that only the most ignorant through of as any kind of intellectual. The guy basically took a shotgun to our foot and now we’re being asked to run the 100m and people are wondering why Emery has tried crawling, rolling, handstanding, hopping etc to finish the race.

  37. MidwestGun

    Actually other then Pierre and CG… I get along with about everyone.. And that’s because they are just trolling from Untold.
    And Pierre falls In love with things and can’t let them go.. First Wenger and now Ozil.

    Oh and Thomas the Chelski fan is still here.

  38. Marko

    One point re the link you posted. It’s easy to get caught up in the negativity but that article is talking about a £45 million transfer budget vs £90. Now whilst I’d be all over having the extra £45 million do you really think an extra £45 million would solve all of our problems?

    This is kind of my point it shouldn’t be used as an excuse by management for going for our already thought of targets or for actually being able to afford said targets. Champions League or Europa League we still need to sell quite a few players and we still need to sign up LB, RB, a couple CB’s, a CM and a wideman. I still personally don’t believe the budget stuff honestly. According to them us being back into the Champions League means a budget of 90 million amazing so an extra 20 million from last seasons budget.

  39. Nelson

    @MidwestGun

    You are from midwest. Just think about those Arsenal fans from North London. How do you want them to wear an Arsenal shirt without being laugh at by those SPUDs and Chelsea fans they meet.

  40. Elmo

    Marko

    I doubt that would surprise anyone here.

    Just think of Gazidis. Was the second highest paid CEO in the PL, while abjectly failing to keep pace with the competition in terms of commercial revenue generation, and completely asleep at the wheel while the club was trashed from the inside by the manager. Was paid nearly £1m performance based bonus as we dropped out of the CL. Once it was clear the game was up and austere times were coming, he jumped ship to feed at another trough.

    People have been scratching each others’ backs and getting unjustly rich at Arsenal for many years now. The whole rotten thing needs to burn.

  41. Marc

    Marko

    And yet CL football is going to pay off the Spud stadium debt in an instance. Even if you take the revised revised estimate of their stadium it was still almost the cost of the Emirates over budget.

  42. MidwestGun

    I mean transfer budgets are amortized as well.. You rarely pay the entire amount in one calendar year.. But the wages are so out of whack compared to revenue and on field production it’s unreal.. You could argue our 4 highest paid players are our worst.. ones..

    So signing new players to a decent wage is the issue.

  43. MidwestGun

    Nelson_
    Yeah I know…. I don’t envy y’all. I have a friend I talk to on Skype who lives in London …. He says if the Spud win on Sat. he is moving to an Island somewhere in the Southern Hemisphere.

  44. Marko

    If we ever play 3 at the back ever again… I will be sick

    So that’s a no for Nagelsmann then. He is a fan of 3 at the back.

    Maybe the summer will bring some more back?

    Nothing gets the fans back on board like a good signing or 6

  45. Cesc Appeal

    The wages at this club are an absolute joke.

    When you think Ozil and Mkhitaryan cost Arsenal £26 400 000 a year.

    Think of that fact that City have Sane, Jesus, Mahrez, De Bruyne/Silva/Gundogan etc on their bench and yet we’re just £40 Million a season in wages behind them.

  46. Marko

    Marc they’re not paying off the stadium debt in one champions league run. I think they make about 70 or 90 million from a decent run. I might be wrong but nowhere near the 600 million they went over

  47. MidwestGun

    Marko-

    Yeah Naglesmann isn’t for me..
    I will admit I admired the way Chile used to play the 3-5-2 back when they were good but for me it works better in International play. But in the PL.. no thanks.

  48. Jamie

    CA –

    There are always a few boneheads knocking around. I’m trying to follow Marko’s advice and not take the bait.

    As for our summer plans, I really hope the axe falls on at least 8 players. We’re losing 4 for sure (Cech, Lich, Welb, and Ramsey). We should also be looking to shift Mustafi, Nacho/Kola, Ozil and Mkhi as a matter of priority.

    We also have a bunch of dross who aren’t even close to the required standard:
    Opsina, Jenko, Elneny, Chambers, Beilik.. Have I forgotten anyone?

    I’m not too hot on the idea of selling either striker, but if a £75m+ offer came in for either, we’d have to take it. We’ve let too many assets walk out the door on free transfers, and Auba (although probably our best player atm) won’t be putting up big numbers in 2 years. His value is likely to plummet in 18 months..

    Even keeping both strikers, we’d have so much room for a handful of sexy kids looking to make a name for themselves in time for a Barca rebuild in a few years.

    We’re in the trenches for 24 months minimum.

  49. Marko

    Atletico signing Marcos Alonso could be good news for us. I have a feeling that we might have been looking at the same LB options

  50. jwl

    Cesc Appeal – salaries paid to our listless squad has been bugging me for years. I remember an article in 442 mag way back when that compared salaries across the league and our entire squad were being paid £50,000 per week minimum while Modric during his final year at Spuds was earning £35,000 per week. Never in a million years was our entire squad worth more than Modric, Wenger wasted collosal amounts of money on salaries for underwhelming players instead of using money to buy better.

  51. Marko

    Yeah I think Emery prefers a back 4 but he responded to the lack of defensive quality and poor performances with a back 3 and let’s be honest a back 3 is usually a back 5 especially with “fullbacks” playing in midfield. In that respect I could have seen Nagelsmann struggling

  52. Marc

    Marko

    I wasn’t suggesting they’ll pay off the debt in one hit – I was being sarcastic towards those who seem to think it won’t have any affect on them at all. A billion pound debt, a dozen players put up for sale which doesn’t include Eriksen, their best midfielder who’s off as well.

  53. Marko

    I’m not too hot on the idea of selling either striker, but if a £75m+ offer came in for either, we’d have to take it.

    I have a feeling Lacazette will be off. Either Barca or Atletico. Coupled with those rumours that we were looking at Maxi Gomez and Wesley in Genk it would make sense. Wesley for about 20 million or Maxi for 35-45 million with Laca going for 70 million or whatever would be ideal

  54. WengerEagle

    Haha, have just seen the Jorginho video on the Chav team bus with Giroud bantering off of us holding the Cup.

    We really are a pathetic laughing stock aren’t we?

    Going to have to prematurely retire as a football observer if the Spuds pull off the unthinkable tomorrow.

  55. Marko

    I thought that Marc. It’s why I kinda take those rumors of Spurs bidding 55 million for Lo Celso or bidding for Ndombele with a bucket of salt. No I don’t think that they’ll go through a bad austerity period like us but the fact remains that they built a stadium and it went 600 million over and that counts for something. A Champions league run doesn’t make that disappear overnight. Their record transfer fee is 36 million btw

  56. Paul Kelly

    Need to shift Maitland Niles as well…the most lazy and laid back joke of a player I have ever witnessed.

  57. Marko

    Are you serious WE? Selling Lacazette could fund two players. Are you suggesting that we might struggle to replace his goals? I don’t think so

  58. WengerEagle

    Middy

    Myself and Sal both called it, Giroud with the dagger goal. Still can’t really believe that it actually came to fruition, the banter-brigade came full-circle with Chav fans mercilessly mocking his stupid face that he pulled after missing that sitter at 0-0 or 1-0 [can’t remember which, have almost successfully suppressed the 6-0 from my memory] in the AW 1,000 match special.

  59. WengerEagle

    Marko

    Maxi Gomez wouldn’t cost far off what we’d get for Laca and the latter is the much better CF as of now.

    Celta Vigo aren’t entertaining anything south of 35 million for him.

  60. MidwestGun

    Eagle-
    Yeah when you think back on all the sitters Giroud missed the year we only had him as our CF and the following season.. Then you just knew he would be clinical playing us.. Top banter. His movement was causing all kinds of problems for our back 3 second half.. another reason I hate 3 cb’s its stupid and caused confusion.

  61. WengerEagle

    Plenty of sub apps in there Marko, and goals scored isn’t the only stat that matters which is pretty close to being unanimously accepted at this stage re strikers.

    Maxi’s all-round game is lacking.

  62. Marko

    WE his clause is like 40 or 45 million euros. You sell Lacazette for 70-80 million how is that not a good idea.

  63. Pierre

    Has Le Grove turned into the mutual appreciation society …

    ” Oh You are such an elite poster” … ” oooh thank you , it’s so nice to have decent posters on here ” …..

    Pass me the sick bucket..

  64. Marko

    You do realize that he’d be a back up or rotated striker? Who gives a fuck about all around game Lacazette has that and how helpful has that been.

  65. Cesc Appeal

    Jamie

    If Barcelona did try to make a move for Lacazette as it’s them we should try to fleece them for as much as we can, ask for £80-90 Million for him.

    I like Lacazette, he’s a good player and can do the busy work most modern managers demand, but if you could buy Saliba, Sarr, Ziyech, Meunier with his transfer fee alone, for example, who’d be against it? Or Zaha and Ziyech meaning our front line had ZAZ which would please Pedro.

    I don’t even know is zaz is a thing, but it is now.

    The kind of thing Liverpool did with Coutinho, great player and a game changer, but they developed into a EPL contending and, in the name of humanity, UCL winning side with the proceeds from the sale.

  66. WengerEagle

    My bollocks you could sell him for that much Marko. 80 million for a 28 year old CF averaging less than a goal every other game?

    Not a hope when a kid in Jovic scored 27 goals and is going for 50 million.

    We’d be doing well to recoup the 50 million we paid for him. Considering he was plundering home 30 goals a season at Lyon and was 25-26.

  67. WengerEagle

    Marko

    Why the fuck would Maxi leave Celta only to go sit on the bench? Surely if he had a shred of ambition he’d leave for somewhere he would start.

  68. MidwestGun

    To me every player we have is available for the right price.. Can’t think of one must not sell.. player. Maybe Leno… but he means so much to Emery that he started Cech.

  69. Cesc Appeal

    I think £50 Million is low, but even if so, would you trade Lacazette for Sarr and Ziyech (both at £25 Million?)

    It’s a personal preference question of course.

    Personally in this market I wouldn’t even be entertaining selling Lacazette for anything less than £70 Million.

  70. jwl

    I know other people liked him but I thought Giroud was prime example of how things went wrong at Arsenal, I will never forgot the face he would make after missing an easy chance once again, and he was meant to be rvp replacement.

  71. Valentin

    L’Equipe reporting that Spurs has bid for Tanguy NDombele, but that Lyon wants a minimum basic of €60 millions.

  72. WengerEagle

    Ziyech is a move that would make sense, has openly stated his desire to play here at some point and would bring an abundance of goals/creativity. I was worrying about how he’d fit in but do you know what fuck it, you accommodate talent when an opportunity presents itself.

    25 million makes it a no-brainer really, hopefully Sanhelli gets the finger out.

  73. Cesc Appeal

    WE

    I don’t know, their buying record is spotty recently.

    I think Atletico are more likely, they’ve just got £110 Millon for Griezmann.

    We cannot be the only club not to benefit from this batshit crazy market. I agree, Lacazette isn’t worth £70 Million or more, but a lot of players are moving for prices they are not worth.

    Palace want £80 Million for Zaha, Leicester want £60-70 Million for Maddison, United look like they are going to pay £50 Million for Wan Bissaka.

    It is nuts.

    Lacazette has a reputation, and is dangerous, as well as hard working. If someone offered £50 Million I would think they are lowballing.

  74. Marko

    In this market we couldn’t get 70 million for Lacazette? Griezmann 133 goals the last 5 seasons and he’s 28 Lacazette 127 goals the last 5 seasons and 28 one’s going for 108 million the other we’d be lucky to get 50 million for him. In this market

  75. WengerEagle

    ‘Personally in this market I wouldn’t even be entertaining selling Lacazette for anything less than £70 Million.’

    Yeah but name me the 28 year old strikers that are averaging less than 1 in 2 over two seasons going for that sum of money?

    The market has sky-rocketed but clubs aren’t completely thick either.

  76. Zfree

    If we sell Laca, that’ll be how many seasons in a row where the club’s player of the season departs next season? Sanchez, Ramsey, Laca. Sounds about right, joke club.

  77. MidwestGun

    Palace has priced Zaha out of the market.. That’s the I don’t want to sell you price.. I used to do the same thing when people ask about my boat. I would tell them 100k.. then when I actually went to sell it.. 20K.

  78. WengerEagle

    Griezmann is FAR better than Lacazette, give us a break.

    Griezzy has been putting up 25 plus goals a season in Spain for half a decade straight now.

    Laca hasn’t even cracked 20 in two seasons in England and he’s an out and out striker, Griezmann is a quasi CAM/CF.

  79. Cesc Appeal

    ‘The market has sky-rocketed but clubs aren’t completely thick either.’

    Not sure I’d agree. They’re pretty stupid with their money.

    It would be so Arsenal to sell him for £40-50 Million and literally be the only team incapable of milking this market.

  80. Marko

    Why the fuck would Maxi leave Celta only to go sit on the bench? Surely if he had a shred of ambition he’d leave for somewhere he would start.

    Obviously you sell it to him. I don’t know why you’re fighting the idea of selling someone to potentially bring in two players. You know what forget it lets keep him and Auba and go again next season. Maybe he’ll get more than 13 league goals

  81. Valentin

    I would rather sell Aubameyang for £70 millions than Lacazette. At least Lacazette work hard for the team and score against the big 6.

    I doubt that any Spanish team bar Real could pay them the salary that they want €300kpw.

    Athletico has been ruined by the salary they gave to Griezman €21 millions per year. Their early elimination of the CL has hit them more than most as they rely on that to compete in la Liga.

    Barcelona has treasury issues and can’t afford Griezman demand on top of Messi and his clan annual request for a raise.

  82. WengerEagle

    CA

    That makes me inclined to think that they’ll be less trigger happy to spend that sum of money again unless it’s on somebody that they are certain about. Everyone of their hierarchy must know that they made a big fat mistake spending such a wad on Coutinho. Even Dembele they overpaid for, although he’s been immense for them this season at times and will pay that fee back in the future be it at the club or should they decide to cash in.

    Is Lacazette any better than Suarez, even declined a little at 32? Of course not.

    And he’s 28 years old, where is the resale value if he doesn’t work out?

    All of those guys you named are age 25 or below, Palace know that they aren’t getting that for Zaha, figure will be much closer to 40-50m if someone takes the plunge on him.

  83. WengerEagle

    Marko

    I’m not, I was actually an advocate of the idea on here before it was even hip.

    Maxi Gomez being one of the two wouldn’t be a good idea is all I’m saying.

  84. Marc

    “L’Equipe reporting that Spurs has bid for Tanguy NDombele, but that Lyon wants a minimum basic of €60 millions.”

    But what have the Spud’s bid? They were doing this last summer with Grealish, low balling bids when the selling club had already stated what they would sell for.

    The Spud’s will buy a couple of players this summer but I really think it’ll be more money in than out.

  85. WengerEagle

    Meunier and Ziyech would be massive upgrades on what we have.

    And we could snag the two of them for less than 50 million. That’s called being prudent with your money.

  86. Pierre

    Azed
    “Emery has not been known to use a back 3 in his coaching career but he used a lot this season because the player had required him to change.”

    Are you sure you are not talking bullshit to defend Emery because , unless I was mistaken , the first time we played 3 at the back in the league was away to Bournemouth with a full squad of players to choose from so what’s all this ” players had required him to change” crap.

    Up until this change of formation we had played 4-2-3-1 and was on an impressive unbeaten run …maybe you should think of another reason as to why he changed the formation.

    He carried on switching formations every other week and proceeded to lose 7 games in 14 games…

  87. Marko

    If you prefer Joelinton and his 19 goals in two seasons then by all means do but I was merely noting the strikers we’ve been linked with and they’re goals the last two seasons compared to Lacazette’s at Arsenal. Obviously it’s not a case of just replacing his goals but replacing his goals is something we can do and selling him could get us a replacement ST and money towards another player

  88. MidwestGun

    I would say we should go for a midfield rebuild.. but we never built one in the first place. Our best midfield pairing in recent memory was Santi and Coquelin. That should tell you how bad it’s been. And they were paired strictly by accident due to injuries.

  89. Cesc Appeal

    WE

    Have to see if anyone is interested. All I’m saying is I would milk this market, Sanllehi is apparently and absolute shit to negotiate with (in a good way for us) as well, so we will see.

    I agree on Meunier and Ziyech. Not really even a discussion, is it?

    There are ways for us to assemble a good team smartly this summer, but we basically have to make every penny count.

    We have to hope as well that scouts like Saliba come off, if we buy him obviously.

    I don’t think we will be shopping in the £50 Million or over CB market now.

  90. Valentin

    Griezman and Lacazette are not really comparable as they don’t have the same role in a team. If you compare purely in term of goals, then the stats will favour Lacazette.

    Griezman take the penalties for his team which skews his stats. Including penalties, in la Liga he scored only 15 goals this season, 19 the year before and 16 two seasons ago. So hardly the most prolific.

    Griezman is not really a 9, without a burly striker to act as pivot he is a lot less effective.
    It was the same at the world Cup with France. Without Giroud, he struggled.

    What both share is the same ethos in term of defending from the front.

    What Griezman has over Lacazette, is better distribution. He is a lot more effective when he drops deep.

  91. englandsbest

    Pedro

    I don’t like flattery, it’s a weaselly way of getting the most out of people.

    Someone tells you what a great guy are, make sure your wallet stays in your pocket.

  92. Valentin

    @Midwest,

    Actually that pairing Cazorla-Coquelin was the reason why we had accrued the most points during the calendar year 2015. Coquelin was recalled around the new year from Charlton. Once Cazorla was injured the following year the game was up.

  93. Receding Hairline

    Wild rumor time

    @MrArsenicTM reporting a source have details of how Adidas helped juventus get Pep and that Pochettino has agreed to take over at City next season

    Crazy I know

  94. Valentin

    RB is not really a major issue. with finance tight, I would rather, we concentrate on a LB and a dominant central midfielder to replace Elneny and push Xhaka on the bench.
    Sell Kolasinac and Mhikitarian and buy a proper left winger.

  95. WengerEagle

    Ins:

    Meunier: 15-20 million [last year of contract]
    Ziyech: 25 million [release clause]
    LB/LWB: Grimaldo, Theo Hernandez, Alex Telles, Gaya, Aaron Martin, Halstenberg, Amavi, Kostic.

    Free Agents that we should be looking at: Hector Herrera, Yacine Brahimi, Max Kruse, David Luiz.

    Could probably pull in 4-6 players there including the frees for a total spend of 60-70 million, what we spend last summer funnily enough.

  96. Marko

    Receding haven’t you heard Poch is signing nearly 200 million worth of CMs for Spurs. And Arteta is being lined up for the City job
    always has been. It seems more likely to be Sarri.

  97. WengerEagle

    I do prefer Joelinton actually but with funds pretty tight I’d put him on the shelf for this summer considering we desperately need defenders and midfielders.

  98. Marko

    RB is not really a major issu
    Please fucking stop with the numbskullery. Our options are AMN, Lichtsteiner and an injured Bellerin we absolutely need a RB. And no Osei Tutu isn’t an option

  99. Cesc Appeal

    Hector Herrera is off to Atletico, isn’t he?

    Your points stands though, WE, there’s deals we can do.

    Have to be aggressive with the outs though, so important.

  100. WengerEagle

    CA

    It’s incredible think how much we could improve the squad just looking for little things like release clauses, last year of contract players, free agents and preying on smaller clubs in much less prosperous Euro leagues that are always desperate to sell.

    It’s why it boggles my mind that some people only pay attention to PL transfers. And makes you wonder what our recruiting panel are up to Monday-Friday if we can point this out.

  101. Marko

    Free Agents that we should be looking at: Hector Herrera, Yacine Brahimi, Max Kruse, David Luiz.

    Herrera is joining Atletico and Luiz as signed up for Chelsea again

  102. Cesc Appeal

    The entire defence, including RB, is a massive issue.

    Bellerin has always been suspect defensively, he’s out until October, pace was his weapon and he’s coming back from a bad ACL.

    That a good look?

    Not to mention if we don’t address RB we are starting off the season committed to tethered swimming again, because we will have to play wingbacks with Maitland Niles or go for untested youth for 3 months.

    Rip that entire defence out and start again.

  103. Cesc Appeal

    WE

    Absolutely.

    You could bring in Ziyech, Saliba, Sarr, Claude Maurice, Meunier and Sarabia and I doubt any of them would cost over £25 Million.

  104. WengerEagle

    Brahimi and Kruse are miles ahead of Iwobi and the boys Marko, both would improve us greatly adding goals, creativity and 1 vs 1 dribbling ability in Brahimi’s case.

  105. Marko

    I wouldn’t touch Max Kruse. We have a problem with not having enough reasonably aged players particularly in attack and free agents would demand a good wage. At 31 if it didn’t work out we’d be stuck with another overpaid player we can’t shift

  106. Receding Hairline

    Valentin its a useless rumor. Pep looked quite angry when asked about Juventus.

    Sarri is the one Juventus want, although in a league where Sarri and Conte are the two top managers I fancy Conte for the title

  107. Cesc Appeal

    I don’t know why we’re worried anyway.

    Edu looks great in the TD role and smells a bit of sauce so Martinelli is basically the next Messi…for £5 Million as well.

  108. WengerEagle

    CA

    There’s so much turnaround needed on ins and outs that it’s just not going to happen this summer and we’re all bound to be disappointed. If it’s only a little disappointed, say we get rid of 3-4 of Kola, Ozil, Mustafi, Elneny, Xhaka, Miki and bring in 4-5 new additions, I’ll take it.

    Not that I hold out much hope that we’ll even manage to shift on 3 of that lot.

  109. WengerEagle

    11 goals and 10 assists in the BL do nothing to warm the cockles for you Marko eh?

    Fuck me we were paying Bendtner 60k for years not to mention Park 50k, Diaby fuck knows how much over the years, Chamakh 60k, and don’t even get me started on the current salaries.

    Who cares if we pay Kruse 50-100k if he scores/creates 15-20 goals? Not like he wouldn’t have earned it.

  110. WengerEagle

    Well obviously, I’m talking players that would improve the squad.

    Brahimi is miles better than Iwobi. Does he compare to Mane? Of course he doesn’t, we’re going to have to pay decent money to have a hope of producing a player that good.

  111. Marko

    Well we’re already forced into changes and we’ve already heard about the new 2 years left sign up or go stuff and they want to bring down the wages so with that in mind I expect us to be very busy and I do genuinely believe that you will see the back of Mhiki, Ozil and Mustafi this summer

  112. WengerEagle

    Conte isn’t winning anything Serie A with that Inter side.

    Juventus with Ronaldo are far too strong, they absolutely blitzed the competition this season. Even Sarri will manage that elusive first Scudetto.

  113. WengerEagle

    I’ll believe it when I see it with re to Ozil. Who in their right mind takes on that kind of contract for a much declined over 30 coaster?

    Mustafi and Miki I could see.

  114. WengerEagle

    RH

    They do have Chinese owners backing them from what I remember.

    I really like Conte but it would be even more impressive than his Juventus tenure if he won the league with Inter. Outside of Icardi [who’s had a shit season] and Skriniar they don’t have anyone better than who Juventus have. And I’m being generous with Icardi because Ronaldo plays as the CF for Juve but I’m comparing him to Mandzukic.

  115. WengerEagle

    Marko

    Don’t sign him up to a 3 year deal then, you really think he’d turn down the opportunity to play for Arsenal in London on a 1-2 year deal?

  116. englandsbest

    I’m still trying to come to terms with 600 backroom staff. If it’s true, 500 of them must be spending most of the time trying to look busy.

    Remember when Arsenal had the reputation of being England’s best-run football club? The Bank of England Club?

    £230m on salaries? The mind boggles.

    What is it about Football clubs? They seem to turn hard-eyed business men into blundering nincompoops.

    Shit, I wish I had £2,000,000,000. I’d give it all to Stan and show how a football club should be run.

  117. Pierre

    A question for the elite posters on Le Grove.

    Why would a manager play Mesut Ozil in a cup final to use him to man mark jorginho…..that was his role he was asked to play for the team last night and that was the role he played.

    He was rarely more than 5 yards away from Jorginho and they cancelled eachother out ..
    Jorginho was quiet as was Ozil ….all of the Chelsea play came through kovasic, Pedro, Hazard and Giroud.

    I have been waiting all day for someone on Le Grove to say something honest and insightful about Ozil’s performance last night but obviously you don’t watch the tactical side of the game..

    If you don’t believe me ,watch the game , but I will repeat , why play Ozil as a man marker , ridiculous decision by the manager as was the decision to play Cech in goal.

    You either play Ozil for the strengths of his game of you leave him out , it is that simple….