What can Arsenal learn from the Red Sox?

by & filed under News Review.

Enjoy the monthly column from Jonathan. Make sure to follow him @jblauphoto 

It’s Monday, January 28th, (as I write this,) and Arsenal are the 6th best football club in England.

(I don’t want to hear that we’re still ahead of United on goal different. Shut your mouth.)

It’s a cold, sunny Monday here in the Rocky Mountains, and I’m trying to synopsize the last month for you, since I wrote my “what the fuck is Emery thinking?” column at the end of the year.

At this point, 8 months into his reign, I’d say that the jury is still out on Unai Emery, but doubts are beginning to creep into the global fan base.

(Will he ever stick with one line-up? Or formation? Does he have a grand plan?)

Personally, I was pretty surprised he didn’t run out the same lineup for the United FA Cup match that crushed Chelsea earlier in the week.

Surely, outside of changing the goal-keeper, I thought he would have to play the same team, given how well they handled Chelsea.

Three DM’s supporting 2 (finally) capable CBs, with Ramsey feeding Lacazette and Aubameyang.

I was sure he’d go back to the well.

But, of course, I was wrong.

You can understand why he put Iwobi into the team ahead of Guendouzi, and it’s not like it was a crazy idea. It’s just that almost anyone else would have said, “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.”

But not Unai Emery, who seemingly loves to chop and change more than my 6 year old daughter playing with her squishies and Shopkins. (Don’t ask.)

Lots of media coverage has focused on Emery the tactical coach, or lately, Emery the failed motivator. On and on, we focus on his rebuild or his vision.

But during the last month, lots of ink was also spilled about the departure of Sven Mislintat, and the nasty power struggle that ended with his shanking out back behind the basketball court.

Surely, to the outside observer, it looks like Arsenal are in turmoil, as there is no firm system in place to replace the “Arsene decides” battle plan that was wheat-pasted up in the board room for the last 22 years.

The truth of the matter is, if you want to understand where we stand in the Premier League right now, you have to look to the Boston Red Sox.

Really, the Red Sox have all the answers.

I’ve noticed lately that Pete has begun to make comparisons to the American sports leagues, but normally he’s cutting and pasting from other articles.

I can tell you right off the top of my head what you need to know.

For a hundred years, the Red Sox were laughing stocks. They were a joke, as they suffered under the curse of Babe Ruth. Having sold the famed ballplayer to the Yankees, their rival, they watched the Yanks win all sorts of things, while their trophy cabinet collected dust like my daughter collects little plastic toys. (She’s got enough to choke a blue whale.)

Always, the Sox were chokers.

They couldn’t win.

But then, a hedge-fund type with partners rolling in Cosby-show-money bought the team, and they became very early adopters of the now-ubiquitous use of analytics.

Yes, that’s right.

Numbers.

Around the time Billy Beane was getting famous for Moneyball, the Sox ownership group, (Henry, Werner et al) went out and hired the man who invented the field, Bill James.

Apparently, he was the numbers geek of all geeks, as he sent out his own photocopied zine that made waves around the sports industry, back in the day.

They hired Bill James, and all of a sudden, began coveting players who drew walks, and got on base a lot. They went after fat guys, (like Kevin Youkilis,) and at first, there was little competition for the players they wanted.

And unlike the Oakland A’s, whose penny-pinching drove them to look for undervalued assets, the Red Sox were a big market team in a sports-crazed city, and they matched their numbers-crunching with some serious investments.

You might not have heard of Big Papi, or Jonny Damon, but the Red Sox players of the early century became Boston legends when they came from 3-0 down in the American League Championship, against the dreaded Yankees, and beat them, going on to win their first World Series in nearly a century.

But that wasn’t the end.

Continuing to invest and innovate, and leaning on their back-room nerds, the Red Sox have now won 3 more World Series.

(Making 4 championships this century for a club that went forever without winning.)

Even better, another of their hero-number-crunchers, Theo Epstein, went to the Chicago Cubs, an equally big loser, and after installing the same operating system, he won a World Series there as well.

So that’s 5 Championships for the analytics team put together by the (gulp) Liverpool owners.

It’s been enough years that I don’t remember when I saw it, but at some point after they bought Liverpool, I read an article about how the owners were investing in football analytics, and expected to be ahead of the curve, as the “right” numbers were not completely understood at the management level across global football.

So here we are, in 2019, and it’s all worked out for them.

Klopp is great, don’t get me wrong, but really, their success has come from finding the right players, mostly for affordable prices, and then making good decisions.

Yes, Van Dijk and Alison were super-expensive, but only because Liverpool got to the point where they were minting enough high-level assets to afford them.

Just think: Mané, Salah, Firmino, Coutinho, Winjaldum… Arsenal could have bought any of them.

(Mané was playing in the Premier League, for heaven’s sake, and had already roasted Arsenal at Southampton.)

But Arsenal, perhaps using the wrong type of analytic analysis, bought Xhaka, Mustafi, and some old guys.

And here we are, in 2019, with a team in need of a massive defensive rebuild, and seemingly requiring player sales of improved assets of fuel the new purchases.

Because unlike the Liverpool ownership group, Stan Kroenke is famous for not wanting to put one of his own dollars into running the club.

So where does that leave us?

Most of you guys probably read this blog each day, and know that Pete has taken on this subject rather often, whether we’ll be a development/analytics club going forward, or a “let me pull out my Rolodex” kind of club, with Raul running the show.

At this point, unlike the last few years, the Kroenkes are finally experiencing genuine success in LA and Denver. (The Washington Post even did a cover story on Stan’s big stadium play in Inglewood.)

The mustache-dude is not averse to spending money in all cases, apparently. And now, he’s getting some serious visuals on how brand-building and winning turn into hard currency.

So that’s where we are now.

I’m hoping that Arsenal will see the writing on the wall, invest in scouting and asset building, and buckle down to work our way back up into the Top 4, and then hopefully into genuine contention by the time Klopp and Pep leave in 2-4 seasons.

There is a blue print out there for us, if we follow it.

Unfortunately, given the resurgence of Man U, and the unlimited funds available at City, plus Abramovich’s addiction to winning, the future does not look rosy.

Not yet.

Not now, at the end of January, 2019.

But, as usual, we’ll know more in May.

Remember, follow him @jblauphoto 

528 Responses to “What can Arsenal learn from the Red Sox?”

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  1. Receding Hairline

    I think it was more a case of Wenger trying to be too smart with his signings

    You want VVD i will give you Mustafi

    You want Kante i will give you Xhaka

    You want a new striker well let me unearth Sanogo

    He did make some obvious signings too like Santi, Sanchez

    And some out of the blue good ones like Sagna, Monreal and Koscielny

    It wasn’t all bad really. Just wasn’t done with any real plan in mind

  2. Receding Hairline

    Seriously, why don’t they keep our (very little) amount of cash for next summer ??

    All loan deals with very loan fees

    2.4 for Suarez or is it 1.4m

    We are not spending any money this window, just trying to do what we can

  3. Graham62

    So we have four Captains at the club, one being Mr Mesut Ozil.

    Not exactly your Concise Oxford English Dictionary definition of a Captain.

    PR stunt?

    Lol!

  4. Un na naai

    Wenger, a man who couldn’t coach, couldn’t do tactics, didn’t have a plan and didn’t sign anyone decent apart from 5 players cited

    He did rather well to keep us in the top four then didn’t he?

  5. Marko

    He did rather well to keep us in the top four then didn’t he?

    did rather well

    keep us in the top four

    Keep.

    Us.

    In.

    The.

    Top 4.

    This is what you’re dealing with.

  6. Danny

    So we have four Captains at the club, one being Mr Mesut Ozil.
    ———————-
    Kos is the team captain. When he’s injured then there are a bunch of possible replacements including Ozil.

  7. Un na naai

    Marko

    Yes. He kept us in the top 4 for 21 years. Lol

    You just put da letta troo door.
    That’s about your limit.

    This is what I’m dealing with.

  8. Dissenter

    First we have to learn from the LA Rams, now it’s learn for the Boston Red sox

    At some point we may just do better by inviting the makers of Fortnite over, ozil can make the intro.

  9. Receding Hairline

    Believe the Lucas Perez signing was an Ivan special

    Whoever was in charge Dream it was a horrible waste of money made worse by not even playing him. He wasn’t even that bad when played Not playing him pushed down his value

  10. Champagne charlie

    “and we expect Kroenke to hand us his own money to play with.“

    Speak for yourself once again. The expectations of Kroenke are simple, put the time in to make the right appointments as per a unified vision, and go from there.

    Maybe don’t just buy a club and let it run untouched for a decade.

  11. Receding Hairline

    Then you hear that Tottenham are holding out for 15m for Jansen and Man City sold two youth players this window for a combined 32m and you understand why we are where we are

    I repeat if i owned this club i would be prosecuting certain people

  12. Dream10

    Receding

    We’re awful at extracting value in the transfer market. We sold Gabriel for 10m to Valencia. Spurs sold Kevin Wimmer to Stoke for 18m ffs. The shit hasn’t hit the fan yet. If you think Arsenal fans moan a lot, sit back and watch us if we don’t get CL football this season. The limited spending and chaos in the summer will cause Arsenal fans to lose their heads. The Kroenkes will be lighting up a pair of Cuban cigars as if nothing happened.

  13. gambon

    As Pedro says, recruitment is the most important thing in the game, and a squad can change quickly with good recruitment.

    Liverpool have basically become the PLs best team (this season) due to the signings of Salah, Van Dijk, Alisson, as well as a good supporting cast.

    People constantly saying we need Kroenke to invest £200bn are missing what Liverpool have done.

  14. Receding Hairline

    Dream

    Kroenke left everything in the hands of Gazidis and Wenger. This blog turned on Wenger long ago but only got round to Gazidis when he failed to appoint someone they liked or approved of. Then knowing fully well he hid behind Wenger for a decade Gazidis left for AC Milan the first chance he got leaving behind a club in absolute tatters

    Don’t let the we have a great squad capable of this and that fool you, we don’t have a great squad, our wage bill is an abomination compared to our achievements.

    Kroenke trusted the wrong people with his investment …the 3m pounds he has taken out twice since buying the club us not the reason we are in a mess. I for one am not in a hurry to blame Kroenke for 100% of our problems

  15. salpardisenyc

    Its incredible the waste bin filled with cash from litany of transfer mistakes, goes way back as well. A few of my recent favorites, Rambo leaving on bossman, Mesut Ozil deal, turning City Sanchez offer down only to sell to united 3 months later for half price…. Luis Suarez who would of nearly trebled in value had they put in a lil extra.

    Club created a nightmare to sell mid level talent putting many of these players on un realistic wages.

    No surprise club can only operate loan deals this window.

  16. Uwot?

    There can be no doubt Ivan”The snake oil salesman” & The ditherer have royally f** ked our club before they left,ousted.take your pick.AFC was little more than a gravy train.pick up you’re bucks for doing as little as poss aided by an absent landlord.Like it or not it’s going to take 2/3 seasons by Emery or whoever to put it right again.when he had Sevilla at first he had to rip up the squad expect the same eventually….

  17. Dissenter

    CC
    “Speak for yourself once again. The expectations of Kroenke are simple, put the time in to make the right appointments as per a unified vision, and go from there.”

    Which is what he did previously
    He came on board just as the club was appointing Gazidis to join a world class footballing mind in Arsene Wenger [he was just that in 2008].
    He bought into a club with famed values and traditions. He chose to respect those values, one of which was self-sustaining business model. He was an American buying a foreign club that had ruin itself exceptionally well for over a century. He chose to not interfere in the daily stuff winch is what most gooners would have wanted ah the time.
    Is he deserving of blame….absolutely yes, the buck stops on his table. However, lets not revise history and try to heap everything on him. The other actors deserve just as much blame too.

  18. Champagne charlie

    Dissenter

    I don’t need an Arsenal history lesson thanks, but maybe you ought to read what’s said a bit more and stop interpreting what you want.

    I don’t blame Kroenke fully, I blame him for what he’s culpable for. He’s simply the only guy around from the previous mess so spotlight should be on him big time seeing as he was incompetent before yet now has greater influence arguably than before. Some reward.

  19. Dissenter

    I haven’t forgotten how many times Pedro lined up to back Gazidis 100%.
    There was a time when Gazidis was the good guy and Wenger was the asinine fool stumbling across the room.

    There was a time when majority wrote to tell Usmanov to shut up when he repeatedly proposed to infuse the club with money. We wanted a self-sustaining approach once upon a time, it separated us from the Chavs and their “dirty money” owner.

    Now, its all about petty revisionism. Kroenke is bad partly because he wont put money . Kroenke is bad because he didn’t sak Wenger even though many of the protagonist os that viewpoint were running interference for Wenger every single day.
    I remember when we got beaten by on April 10th, 2017 because Wenger put out an unprepared team [Captain Theo Walcott said so in the post-match interview]. Rather than point the finger at Wenger, these same actors were putting up anti-Kroenke post after anti-Kroenke post. On Arsenal fan tv, it was the same reaction. It was almost as if Kroenke picked the team for the day and drove the bus down to the Selhurst park.

    There’s a lot of blame to go around…and it’s not all Kroenke’s. The fans too share some.

  20. Marko

    People constantly saying we need Kroenke to invest £200bn are missing what Liverpool have done.

    Klopp has spent 393 million since taking over. Smart investment sure but that’s 393 million. Wenger during a comparable time spent about 270 million on absolute piss and shit

  21. Dissenter

    Kroenke’s problem was being too respectful of the Arsenal value system and traditions.
    He was buying a veritable traditional English institution. There’s a natural deference that Americans have of you lot in the UK. There’s a feeling here that you know what you’re doing even though you do it differently, so just stay out of their way.
    Arsenal was well run before Kroenke came on board. He came on board and left the well run business as it were, probably left it too long because the main actors grew too stale.

  22. Dissenter

    Un na
    You’re the one who posted “chances created’ from a skysports article.
    You obviously engage it cognitively before you decided to throw it around. The onus is ON YOU to define what it means.
    I repeatedly asked you what it meant because I consider it statistical mumbo jumbo, the type “lefties” use to bamboozle people.
    What is the methodology for defining a “chance created”? is there a committee for this like the dubious goal panel?
    What is is the inclusion criteria – do you consider only chances that lead to goals or chances that forced a save
    What are the exclusion criteria- do you leave out a corner kick into a crowded box

    I repeatedly asked you to define what you put up, you waved your hands in surrender and said ‘Skysports said it’

  23. gambon

    Marko

    The point im trying to make is that Arsenal can easily do what Liverpool have done in the last few years.

    It really is just a question of signing the right players.

    Jadon Sancho was £7m just 18 months ago, possibly the best player in Germany
    Nicholas Pepe was £10m 18 months ago, one of the best in France
    NDombele was £8m 6 months ago
    Van Dijk & Alderweireld were £23m combined when they moved to the PL
    Alisson cost Roma £6m

    That lot cost £54m and would have us up competing for the PL.

  24. Marko

    I agree gambon. The only thing I will say though is that I think people like Sancho have changed how clubs are able to target up and coming prospects going forward. I mean City just sold a nobody to Schalke for about 15 million. Hudson Odoi who has really down zero to warrant such interest is apparently a 30-40 million player now. Point is that I don’t think you’re getting a Sancho for 8 million anymore. But I totally agree with you in recent seasons we’ve seen affordable young talent that we could have signed and Wenger simply did nothing. We are somewhat trying to change tact with the likes of Mavropanos, Guendouzi and to a certain extent Torreira but it’s a slow process.

  25. azed

    “The point im trying to make is that Arsenal can easily do what Liverpool have done in the last few years. It really is just a question of signing the right players.”

    Gambon

    The problem is we are stuck with a lot of average unsellable players with massive wages so we have to clean house first.

    Until we get the likes of Ozil, Jenkinson and Elneny of the wage bills, there’s little the club can do.

  26. Left testicle

    Gambon,

    I share your views on almost all things Arsenal, however, you seem to contradict yourself at 14:27. Stating that ‘people constantly saying we need Kroenke to invest £200bn are missing what Liverpool have done’ and then list players who cost a combined £164m?

    Salah £38m
    Alisson £56m
    Van Dijk £70m
    Total £164m

  27. Micheal

    People are right to be suspicious about Kroenke.

    We still have no idea what Kroenke wants from his soccer-ball franchie – i.e. an investment to make money or perhaps a plaything which occasionally brings free Cup Final tickets ? Or perhaps an expensive PR platform to buy respectability on the international sporting stages like the monstrous owners of Man City and PSG.

    Stan has never made it clear about his motives and ambitions for Arsenal Football Club, beyond that inflammatory statement of not buying the cub to win trophies.

    In the absence of a clear message people are right to be suspicious. The ball is in Kroenke’s court. Tell us what’s going on.

  28. Marko

    That is the other thing Liverpool were extremely fortunate in that they had someone like Coutinho who was a huge sellable asset that helped fund signings. We don’t have that. We’d have to sell half a dozen to get near what they sold for one and even then you’d have idiot fans who incessantly argue about keeping this player and that player

  29. Dissenter

    Klopp didn’t buy Coutinho though. He didn’t create the advantages that Liverpool now have. He is benefiting from coming into a club that had a fantastical scouting approach.
    He said as much when he commented about Firminho.
    “”The first thing I did when I left Dortmund [was] I took my phone and deleted all the numbers so I was not reachable,” Klopp told the press, “so I didn’t speak to anyone to offer advice, about Firmino or anyone else.
    “Nobody asked me about him but he was a player I thought was one of the best in the Bundesliga so, when I saw that Liverpool had signed him, I thought: ‘How could Liverpool do this?’
    “They were not in their 100 per cent best moment and other clubs would have spent more on him so I thought immediately: ‘What a good transfer for them.’ I thought they had made a good signing because I felt pretty sure clubs would have paid a lot more for him.
    https://www.goal.com/en-gh/news/4363/premier-league/2016/12/09/30321612/klopp-i-was-shocked-that-liverpool-signed-firmino

    The Liverpool backroom had been killing it long before Klopp came on board and he clearly is benefiting from the ground work that he met in place.

    Emery is coming into a vastly different situation. Emery is like the archaeologist walking into the dusty tomb of pharaoh Wengeratum XXII. We have an untested system.

  30. Bamford10

    Micheal

    More nonsense from you. Stan & company have made it quite clear what their goals are. Below, for example, is Venkatesham speaking about the club’s goals in an interview in October.

    “We want to win the biggest trophies in the game and, if you compete in the Premier League, there are only two: the Premier League and the Champions League. The short‑term ambition is to get back in the Champions League. That is a step on the journey, but not the ultimate ambition. Raúl and I were out in Los Angeles a couple of weeks ago and spent a lot of time over two or three days with Stan and Josh and they are 100% committed to that vision of competing to win the Premier League and competing to win the Champions League.”

    So, actually, their aims are quite clear.

    Just because you don’t follow what these men say closely enough doesn’t mean they haven’t spoken on the matter.

    And I would also like to remind everyone that the LA Rams are in the Super Bowl and the Denver Nuggets are the second best team in the Western Conference. It looks like Kroenke-owned teams can succeed.

    “‘We want Arsenal to win the biggest trophies – Premier League and Champions League”
    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/oct/27/raul-sanllehi-vinai-venkatesham-arsenal-interview

  31. Un na naai

    Dissenter

    I know what it means
    It means Mesut Ozil has created 500 chances in the premier league
    Which if you break it down further means his pass creates an opportunity from which to shoot and score a goal.

    If you can’t get the basics right then I’m not sure soccer ball is the sport for you. 🤪

  32. Bamford10

    Champagne

    “I blame [Kroenke] for what he’s culpable for.”

    Right, and that is one thing and one thing alone: trusting too much in Wenger, keeping Wenger around too long.

    Otherwise, he has allowed the football men to make the footballing decisions, and he has never limited what they can spend; only the s-s model limits that.

  33. gambon

    Left Testicle

    I think you will find all of them players couldve been bought earlier for much less.

    Even so, we couldve done what Liverpool have done. £164m? No problem…

    Sell Sanchez for £60m, sell Ramsey for £35m, sell Ozil for £40m, sell Welbeck for £15m, sell Chambers for £15m.

    None of these sales would have been unachievable.

  34. Micheal

    Bamf

    I hope you are being well paid to recycle pro-Kroenke pulp. And having you as the arbiter of what represents nonsense on this blog is an insult to our intellgience.

  35. salpardisenyc

    Problem lies with club seemingly making same mistakes, how is it that Ramsay is leaving on bossman. We could equate his situation to previous regime but pretty dire getting nothing for an asset valued around £40m.

  36. Receding Hairline

    Problem lies with club seemingly making same mistakes, how is it that Ramsay is leaving on bossman. We could equate his situation to previous regime but pretty dire getting nothing for an asset valued around £40m.

    If we re-signed Ramsey on the wages he wanted i doubt anyone would have offered us 40m for him later. Look at the Ozil situation for instance.

  37. gambon

    “He is benefiting from coming into a club that had a fantastical scouting approach”

    Dissenter

    Is that a joke?

    Klopp inherited a Liverpool that had been dreadful in the transfer market. Brendan Rodgers was a joke.

    Klopp had to clear out just as much rubbish as Emery will have to.

    Benteke, Joe Allen, Skrtel, Sakho, Ibe, Lucas Leiva.

  38. Pierre

    Un
    Just take it that there are certain posters who can’t stand anything positive written about Ozil…..It gets right up their nose.

    Like Arsenal haven’t lost a league game this season with Ozil starting since the 2nd game of the season.

    Or Arsenal have lost their last 5 games without Ozil in the starting line up.

  39. Receding Hairline

    Klopp inherited a Liverpool that had been dreadful in the transfer market. Brendan Rodgers was a joke.

    Brendan nearly won a league title playing some of the best football we have seen in this division. You are going a bit overboard calling him a joke

  40. Dissenter

    We could easily have had 120-125 million from the routine sales of Sanchez, Ozil, Ramsey and Welbeck in 2017 summer.
    When I say routine sale,. I mean done by a lay person like Un na, Emirates stroller or myself. Any casual bystander would have gotten as much for these players if we had a plan.
    gambon would have gotten 150-200 million, Cesc appeal would have turned it into a class action lawsuit whereas Pierre would have kept all of them.
    Back then we had NO PLAN and Wenger was convincing the board that players running down their contracts was ideal; ““You will see more and more players going into the final year of the contract because no club will want to pay the amount demanded… in the next 10 years, it will become
    usual”
    https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-soccer-england-ars-wenger/players-running-down-contracts-will-become-a-norm-says-wenger-idUKKBN1AG0ZY

    That was the philosophy of the main footballing brain of the club at the time – DON’T PANIC, IT’S NORMAL.

  41. salpardisenyc

    Receding

    Misses the point, club chose to put Ozil on that money knowing it wasn’t an option for Ramsay after that deal went thru.

    Should of sold right there to lessen load of other decision, shop window end of last season.

  42. Bergkamp63

    Should’v, would’v, could’v,

    We didn’t !

    We are where we are, get over it.

    Anyone who thought this mess was going to be behind us after 7 months and a pre-season is deranged.

    2 to 3 years at best, Man Utd haven’t progressed any further than us and have a lot more money at their disposal given their turnover tops half a billion and is £200 more than Arsenal.

  43. gambon

    “they had someone like Coutinho who was a huge sellable asset that helped fund signings. We don’t have that. We’d have to sell half a dozen to get near what they sold for one ”

    Or…..we buy good young players that appreciate in value.

    Its not rocket science.

    Sancho has gone from a £7m to £80m player in 18 months
    NDombele £8m to £60m
    Pepe £10m to £50m in 18 months
    Lozano £12m to £35m in 2 years
    Richarlison £12m to £40m in 12 months
    Alisson £6m to £56m in 3 years
    Solanke £3m to £19m

  44. salpardisenyc

    Lets not forget Rodgers relied HEAVILY on a Suarez season this league hasn’t seen since.

    Once that was gone, so was Brendo’s magic.

    Daglish made hell of signing with Luis, he also signed Carrol in same window for pile of money that took some of the magic off other.

  45. TheBoyCornelius

    Emery does need a cleanout of the squad – lets hope Sanllehi can get some decent cash for what we would be looking to ship out. However it would seem that most of what we would be looking to offload will go for little or no money but at least free up significant money from their wages.
    Cech, Ospina, Martinez, Kos, Nacho, Jenks, Chambers, Mustafi, Ozil, Welbeck, Asano

  46. Dissenter

    gambon
    I wasn’t referring to the capability of the pre-Klopp squad to mount a sustained championship challenge even though Brendan Rodgers almost did it too.
    Liverpool had developed a penchant for buying players on the relative cheap that could be sold for lots of money to rebuild,
    Suarez – the real one
    Raheem Sterling
    Coutinho

    It wasn’t Klopp that brought this players in, it was the technical people in the club.

    “Benteke, Joe Allen, Skrtel, Sakho, Ibe, Lucas Leiva.”

    You do realize that Liverpool made some profit on everyone of these transfers, except for Lucas leiva who was sold for a loss of one million after 9 years at the club.

  47. Freddie Ljungberg

    gambon

    How exactly is this approach going to work when fans are screaming for the managers head after half a season. Some fuckwits on here has been on it since day 1.

    Going that route takes time. It’s easy to handpick examples from different clubs of players values exploding but what are the chances we get 5 buys like that right in 1 season?

  48. Marko

    None of these sales would have been unachievable

    Big difference between then and now. Now our only true sellable assets are one of Auba or Lacazette, Xhaka, Mustafi and you have to keep in mind that certain fans don’t want these players sold. We could also sell Guendouzi and Torreira. But I get your meaning and I agree but it’s going to take time and is time a luxury we can afford

  49. Dissenter

    I’ve heard people lament about Emery’s tinkering.
    I beg to disagree.
    I think he has to tinker heavily this first season to figure out which players can cut it and be tactically competent in the modern game since they players have been fed tactics by a mummified manager for the past decade. You don’t go from “just express yourself” to being able to switch several times during games just like that.

    Part of our struggles is that many of the players have been starved of good tactical coaching for too long and are left gasping when something new comes on board. I recall Iwobi coming on during one game and asking Xhaka “what are we playing”. The poor lad is still in Wenger-withdrawal but is at least trying to embrace change.
    ** i know the last paragraph will draw a lot of flak from the W-faithful but still has to be said. **

  50. gambon

    Marko

    Dont be silly.

    I remember everyone saying we would get nothing for Theo and Ox, we got £60m for them in the end.

    I remember everyone saying Coquelin was worthless, we got £12m for him.

    And as for “its going to take time” – well as I showed, you can completely turn over a squad in 2 years.

    As of May it will be 2 years out of the CL. If we had started a rebuild just after the FA Cup win against Chelsea, we could have a new, young, improving team by now.

    Theres no point dithering and signing old cunts like Mykhitaryan and Perisic, just to look back in 2 years and say “its going to take time” again.

    Liverpool brought in Alisson, VVD, Robertson, Wijnaldum, Fabinho, Keita, Ox, Salah, Mane and Shaqiri within a 2 year window,

  51. bennydevito

    Alisson – £56m
    Robertson – 8m
    Gomez – 4m
    Van Dijk- 71m
    Sturidge – £13m
    Kieta – 54m
    Fabinho – 40m
    Shaquiri – 13m
    Salah – 37m
    Mane – 37m
    Firminho – 37m
    Chamberlain – 34m
    Wijnaldum – 25m
    Clyne – 15m

    And this isn’t all of them.

    So in Klopp’s tenure he has spent £431m in over 3 years, yes he sold Coutinho for 140m and others but the point is in just over 3 seasons Klopp has spent an astronomical amount of money and still hasn’t actually won anything. If they don’t win the league this season then the Liverpool fans and the board should look at replacing Klopp for sure.

    What are the chances we will have over £400m to spend in 3 seasons? Next to none I would say, yet people still want to benchmark Emery against Klopp?

    How much has Pep spent in the last 3 seasons? An equally outrageous amount of money if not more no doubt.

    Chelsea? Utd?

    We need to get real with our expectations and quickly.

  52. salpardisenyc

    Receding

    No doubt, but rarely do you see a club dragged along like Suarez did with Liverpool that season. A very high level with less of supporting cast than those you mention… IMO.

  53. Dissenter

    Sal
    “No doubt, but rarely do you see a club dragged along like Suarez did with Liverpool that season. A very high level with less of supporting cast than those you mention… IMO.”

    Similar to when Van Persie single-handedly got us into 4th place before penning his famous letter.

  54. gambon

    benny

    Check your figures

    Weve spent £200m in the last 2 years.

    I think its highly likely we spend £400m in the next 3 years.

  55. salpardisenyc

    Dissenter

    Indeed, I loved the letter as much as his plaudits that season. The elephant was no longer in the room.

  56. gambon

    Also

    If you are going to compare Klopp and Emery

    Klopp got Liverpool into the CL after 2 seasons, in fact only 1 full season.

    This was with a £0 net spend.

    Emery in his first window had a £65m net spend.

    The reason Liverpool have been able to spend so much in the last 12 months, was due to one big sale, but also the success that Klopp was able to deliver in his first full season.

    If Emery gets Arsenal into the CL he will likewise have a serious budget to play with.

    But even if he doesnt, he has a much better financial situation than Klopp had in his early Liverpool days.

  57. azed

    Gambon

    Raul took over from Gazidis after the summer window has closed. We can say/infer that withdrawing the Ramsey contract is the first stage of our wage correction restructuring.

    If we go buy the Suarez deal (getting him with the option to buy as opposed to the obligation to buy), then we can say Raul knows what he is doing.

    Last summer was a transition summer as Gazidis was still in charge. The clear out this summer as well as future purchases would show us were the team and squad is heading.

    Also by the summer Emery would be in the last of his contract so if a new “exciting” manager (Arteta, Benitez, McScrogee) comes in, he would have a base to work with.

  58. Receding Hairline

    Why is anyone denying the fact that we have spent money?? So we can blame Kroenke??

    We have spent money, we simply spent some of it badly, not all of it, some of it. We have also sold badly.

  59. Dissenter

    gambon
    You’re still under-estimating the fact that Klopp walked into a club with a tested backroom that had proven their proficiency with wheeling an dealing.
    Emery doesn’t have that Luxury.
    I used the analogy of Arsenal being a super tanker being turned slowly around in a shallow wharf while loading/unloading had to still proceed.

  60. gambon

    Since Klopp took over, he has spent £385m, and taken Liverpool from 10th to 1st, and likely to win the PL

    In the same time Arsenal have spent £305m, and gone from 2nd to 6th.

    Dont tell me £305m is some pauper levels of money.

  61. gambon

    Nkunku for me

    Carrasco is a talent, and if the rumours of £25m-30m are true then it could be a real bargain. Also feel though that it could go really wrong.

    Best solution may be to take Suarez and Carrasco on loan for the next few months, then re-evaluate in the summer.

  62. bennydevito

    Un na naaiJanuary 30, 2019    14:05:36

    Marko

    You just put da letta troo door.
    That’s about your limit.

    Why don’t you pick your knuckles up off the floor and wipe the dribble from your mouth as we have no idea what you’re talking about.

  63. azed

    GSF
    My limited opinion based on youtube scouting.

    Carrasco would be my preference. He’s a better dribbler which is something we lack, he’s at the right age (25) and more ready for first team action.

  64. Guns of SF

    Im not sure what Nkukunu brings besides being young and a good dribbler. Seems a little small as well.
    I think I would rather have the pure winger we have been needing for a while.
    I would take Carrasco.
    Younger than Perisic- maybe cheaper too.
    Am guessing can speak French and Spanish so that is a plus too.

    He is listed at 5’11 but seems a lot taller than that- maybe just the lanky frame

  65. MGooner

    Dude, we do not need a Yankee blue print for Top 4, we’ve had one for 20 years and can lecture most teams on that.

    Currently the fans cough up and the owner gets all the benefits. This is a very unfair situation. With the current SS model, the owners should be the fans.

  66. bennydevito

    True gambon, but Liverpool bought clever and sold clever whereas we have bought terribly and sold negligably.

    What are we left with now that we can sell like Liverpool did with Coutinho for £140m, Sterling for £50m and Suarez for £65m?

    We’re fucked on that front, we don’t have an owner investing huge amounts ala City and Chelsea and our revenues are behind Utd and Liverpool.

    It’s pretty grim in my opinion.

  67. Dissenter

    Carrasco just looks like a Nacer Chadli type level of winger
    I agree that the history of working with Simeone means that he won’t shirk from hard work.

  68. Guns of SF

    Simeone doesnt take any lazy players.
    So, yes, Carrasco would be the one…
    But makes you wonder why he left for China in his sporting prime

  69. salpardisenyc

    Nkunku,

    Faster than Bellerin, can dribble thru puts Iwobi on bench. Its a long play though kid needs polish.

    Carrasco ended up in China at the age of 24 for a reason.

  70. bennydevito

    Charlie George:

    bennydevitoJanuary 30, 2019    15:02:05

    CG,

    Your observations regarding a lack of pace,power and penetration are spot on so don’t you think we should see who comes in over the next 2 years before making judgements? Don’t you also think that the financial restrictions in place are greatly limiting Emery’s scope for bringing in the types of flair players we need?

    What I would do for a Pires, an Overmars and an Anelka right now but we simply don’t have the money to buy in players such as Neymar, Mbappe or Draxler who Emery signed at PSG when he did have money available.

    That is my point – Emery isn’t in the position to buy these players so we need to be clever and spot the next generation of youngsters who will grow into those sorts of players.

    I hope Saka, Smith Rowe and Reiss Nelson could prove to be these players and I very much expect them to feature next season.

    Shall we wait and see?

    If next season proves our football is still drab, our defence is still conceding the same Wenger style goals and we’re still not breaking into the top 4 then I will be calling for Emery’s departure too, but until then I’d rather enjoy the ride, get back behind the club, buy myself and my 4 kids the shirts again after a 4 year boycott and even hope to get to the Emirates from time to time with help from Pedro and Twitter getting me the odd ticket.

    Is that really too much to ask?

    >>>>>>>

    bennydevitoJanuary 30, 2019    15:05:17

    How many Grovers go on the regular? Could anyone get me 3 tickets together for me, my 14 yr old daughter and 12 yr old son? Maybe after Easter?

    >>>>>>>>

    From the last post.

  71. Marko

    And as for “its going to take time” – well as I showed, you can completely turn over a squad in 2 years

    So two years… alright then you said it two years. Also comparing Klopp and Emery’s situation is silly. He could sell Coutinho for over 100 million the only way Emery does something like that is Auba and Lacazette or Mustafi, Xhaka and someone else. He was very lucky he was able to get 57 million from Palace for Benteke and Sahko. I know we were able to get whatever for Walcott and Chamberlain but now right now Emery only has his two strikers and Xhaka and Mustafi as only real sellable assets. And we’re not going to get rid of both our strikers

  72. DaleDaGooner

    I am not sure if Bamford wants to really get into the racist rubbish, I mean tell me you’re not that dumb at least.

  73. englandsbest

    Kroenke has experienced sporting success before, an occasional blip here and there. Zero effect on his bottom-line policy. And an almost zero chance that it will change his policy now.

    Number-crunching is not a silver bullet. A useful tool, but nothing more. It may help, but it won’t solve, Arsenal’s problems.

    Instead, we should take note of what Emery is trying to do.

  74. Marko

    anyone have a choice between Carasco and Nkunku?
    Argue your point

    Carrasco. You see our limp dick attack and realize we need as much pace and trickery as we can get. Wouldn’t mind Nkunku but Suarez and Carrasco bench Ozil and Iwobi so let’s go

  75. Guns of SF

    Suarez most likely play in the middle.
    Lets hope we grab Carrasco-
    IF we cannot strengthen in Defense this winter lets add more fire power…
    Besides, our full backs can actually stay back a lot more

  76. gambon

    Marko

    Why are we still talking about Coutinho.

    Liverpool got back into the CL before they sold Coutinho.

    In fact they got back into the CL, with a net spend of £0.

    Why dont we focus on doing that first, then we can worry about how we find the money to make PL winning signings like Van Dijk and Alisson.

  77. Graham62

    Dissenter

    Actually, Kroenke’s problem is that he doesn’t give a toss( know a thing) about the Footballing side of things. Consequently, he turned a blind eye to all the crap dished out by Wenger(and Gazidis) over the past few years.

    Another huge problem with our Stan is that he is not the most proactive when it comes to communicating. Infact, he doesn’t say a bloody thing. Does he actually talk? No one really knows. Fudge, a constructive sentence here and there wouldn’t go a miss. It’s not as if he’s from Azerbaijan for christs sake.

    Being American has absolutely nothing to do with whether he understands anything about our clubs culture and ethos. Anyone with a semblance of an interest in Sport, any sport for that matter, would have understood what was going on at Arsenal FC long ago.

    He may have billions, but at the end of the day he is, and always has been, a bad fit for our club.

  78. Marko

    AFC are already in advanced talks with Carrasco’s club and reps over a deal & are confident of getting their man despite late interest from Milan [via
    @johncrossmirror
    ]

    I personally would also like to see us start some of our deals for the summer now. Bayern have Pavard lined up for the summer Barca have De Jong and West Ham have Maxi Gomez. Liverpool had Keita lined up 6 months before they got him. I would love to have something big lined up for the summer that sets the tone for us next summer. Make Pepe happen alright

  79. Guns of SF

    Marko

    I agree
    Lets start the tapping up now…
    Ill take any Lyon midfielder – any of them, Sevilla too
    We get youth and massive skills

  80. Marko

    Apparently PSG have had a loan offer turned down by the player. Amazingly he’s happy with barely playing and getting paid for it

  81. MGooner

    @ Gambon,

    Comparing Pool’s spending to ours since Klopp is nice.

    For completeness you may wish to add other data such as the size of the balance sheets of both clubs at the time. Actually, it;s even better to take that over a longer period so you can identify trends and iron out significant deviations.

    But what I like most about our fanbase is how we promptly asked for a new gaffer as we knew that the SS model money was not enough to make us win the PL. Year in year out we witnessed a boring top 4 finish and realised we would never win the PL without buying. We needed most of the time one defender, one defensive midfielder and one forward.

    Now that we have obtained change, it is important that we push forward and demand investments be made by the owner into buying players. Fans continue to pay fat prices to support the team and the owner should also put his money where his mouth is.

    Chelsea, City, United have won the league because of judicious investments and capital injection by their owners.

    Manu wanted a midfielder when they lost their key personnel – they went out and bought Pogba for 100K and he is delivering.

    We have a defensive problem and bought players past their peak on the cheap – not working. On the other hand, we bought Auba and LAca and it has paid off. It just shows that if we get capital injections we will be fine. Sure, the gaffer cannot get all buys right, but this is part of the game and worth it if you actually win something in the end.

  82. Dissenter

    Can you all remember those days when all we got from Wenger was that stupidest smog smirk when it came to transfers.
    Imagine if we had been wheeling and dealing this way in the past 10 seasons.

    We have obvious needs…the clubs goes out and squeezes out possible solutions

  83. Charlie George

    Can’t really compare Klopp v Emery
    But if one did:

    Klopp the bundelsliga twice champion with underdogs Dortmund.

    Champions league runner up ×2
    Klopp is the inspirational motivator supreme.
    The man Has stature and has oodles of charisma

    Players want to play for him..

    Emery is a damp squib in comparison.

    Aside from his so called claim to fame – winning 3 Europa titles .!!
    A tournament , designed for the also rans of football.

    The term – chalk and cheese springs to mind..

  84. Receding Hairline

    Get French Football News

    @GFFN
    2h2 hours ago
    More
    Inter Milan have pulled out of the race for Yannick Ferreira Carrasco; Arsenal made a formal offer yesterday, but negotiations are difficult owing in part to a language barrier with Dalian Yifang President Shi Xueqing, according to RMC

    No one speaks English at Lifang??

  85. Guns of SF

    Ozil to PSG- he is a fucking idiot to pass that up if its true.
    CL football and with some of the best players in the world
    Must have something to do with his wages. although PSG have the $$4

    What a fucking moron

  86. Guns of SF

    Dissenter

    How can we afford Carasco if we have no money. I think this deal gets washed.
    Otherwise the info is incorrect.
    The whole language barrier thing is hilarious
    In this day and age we cannot work around that? lol

  87. MGooner

    @ Receding Hairline

    With such an important fanbase in Asia and China, it is surprising that Arsenal did not even care to have someone on their payroll who can speak Chinese.

  88. azed

    “No one speaks English at Lifang??”

    There are groovers who are based in China that can negotiate on behalf of the Arsenal.

  89. azed

    GSF

    Ozil is semi retired.

    Going to PSG means he cannot hide behind Emery when he fails to dominate the small French sides away from home.

  90. Marko

    He’s such a horrible player. Why would you pass up the opportunity to play for PSG to actually play football to stay at a club that doesn’t want you for a manager that doesn’t want you and with players who think you’re a twat. Mind boggling

  91. gambon

    Some rumours that Carrasco would rather go to Milan

    If so, shows we’ve dodged a bullet.

    Anyone that goes to China at 24, then back to Milan, is a trash player.

    He’ll be playing in the Middle East within 2 years.

  92. Freddie Ljungberg

    So Ozil doesn’t want to leave on loan, imagine it’s an ego thing. Fine, sell him cheaply or even better do a swap deal, they have plenty of players that would improve us and they have Rabiot that’s training with the u23s and they want rid of asap, let’s make it happen.