It’s not often I’ll concede and take a fat L, but today, I must.
Aaron Ramsey’s agent has only gone and done it. £140k a week NET fam… which works out at around £280k a week GROSS. That’s good cash. Baldwin, you’re the British Raiola, and we’re proud to have you raping the game for all it’s worth.
Well played.
As for Aaron, it’s over. The much-loved Welshman is ducking out with a huge win. He’s going to one of the most prestigious clubs in the world, he’s playing for a top 3 manager, and he gets to live in Turin.
God speed.
This goes down as one of the worst episodes in a long line of Game of Thrones like transfer catastrophes. Arsenal could have tied Rambo, Ozil and Sanchez down to longterm deals 4 years ago after we’d just beaten Villa in the FA Cup final. We dithered, wouldn’t pay out wages that outstripped Wenger, and the rest is history. We let one go for £35m, lost one on a free, and stuffed ourselves with the one that cared the least for £350k a week.
What a disaster.
It was the right decision though. A Europa League team cannot keep on dishing out £150k+ a week deals. We’ve made a total hash of those sort of contracts already. Ozil, Lacazette and Mikhi spend most of their time on the bench. Aaron is a good player, but I don’t believe in him as £300k a week player. If he’d been Pep trained from 20, sure, but he’s been schooled in the woods for 8 years. I also don’t think we can afford that sort of luxury anymore. We need Torreira players. £25m in fee and £65k a week in salary.
The big fear that I have now is how we get out of this absolute mess.
Our wage bill is fucked, we have no saleable assets, our youth players are good but there are no Cesc’s bubbling up, we have an ageing defence and most importantly… there’s no fucking money to pull ourselves out of the problem. Oh, and we also fucked our managerial appointment.
The pain is real.
We’ll have to unfuck ourselves first, then we’ll have to reset, then we’ll have to pray for diamond eyes to come good.
It very much looks like we’re going to be out in the wilderness for a long time.
Such a shame we spent the banter years hoarding money, buying shit players for big money, as well as sheltering an utterly dross coaching staff.
Anyway, needed to get that out my system.
Onto more positive tones tomorrow.
Listen to the damn podcast.
SPOTIFY | STITCHER | ITUNES | GOOGLE | POCKET CASTS
Fred
“Would be a miracle if we get top 4 with the 6th best squad .”
Don’t be daft …tighten up the defence , play Aubamayang ,ozil and Lacazette and the manager should start showing more confidence in his players
Chelsea ‘re not looking much better than us ..see how United get on against Tottenham….
I’m not saying we will do it as I don’t hold too much faith in the manager but let’s not say we need a miracle.
So it’s year since Raul took over the Arsenal reign. Hasn’t he done well.!!! Miki wages debacle/wrong player swap Ozil wages debacle Lichsrienr debacle/chambers loan Emery appointment (,No fans choice,whatsover) Selling Giroud cheaply Buying 29 PEA ( Cup tied for Europa) Sokratis signing 30for 15 mill Leno 22 mill not 7 mill Fabianski Fans are right to criticise Wenger But, by the same token this guy ,Raul is getting AWAY with it. The day Wenger left- we have become a smaller thinking club. Wenger stayed years too long. His replacement needed to be so much better than the unsuitable Spanish… Read more »
Ye, Marko, but we’re not talking about a Bukayo Saka or Jadon Sancho or Phil Foden or whoever exciting youngster with no opportunity to shine in a big team. This guy is a 25 yo dude. He’s started in 6 games of the last 80 games in the last two seasons in La Liga and UCL.
Receding
Maybe Arteta would have been able to actually improve the performance of the players…..what a coach is supposed to do.
All we heard for years is that Wenger doesnt do tactics, Wenger cant train defence, Wenger has lost the dressing room,
Emery comes in, and cant get any improvement out of these same players.
Why is that?
Can’t Stan get Wal-Mart to sponsor our training kits or something a ridiculous over the market rate amount like City did with Eithiad? Those fuckers cheated FFP so why can’t we?
hello you puny le grovians
what ‘s on today’s whinge menu?
Charlie George
Sanllehi didn’t start until mid Feb 2018 so about half of your points were done before he joined, the other half are stupid.
You gotta love Wenger for one thing if you hate him, he would find a way to spin the loan plan we currently are looking….at least say nothing Emery!
Well said Gambon.
I would be content going the kids a run out til the end of the season to see if they are upto it and build from there, a bit like 1985 – 1986.
Maybe Arteta would have been able to actually improve the performance of the players…..what a coach is supposed to do.
Maybe being the keyword
Emery comes in, and cant get any improvement out of these same players.
Bellerin, Kolasinac, Iwobi, even the Lacazette we are told he hates by a certain poster, Mustafi, Holding , all these players have shown improvements in their play and attitude. The fact you refuse to acknowledge that, or even acknowledge the defensive injury crises is left to you
Time for Nketiah, Saka, Willock and co to step up…..
Has anybody listened to the Podcast? Retarded spurs fans in Brooklyn! Fucking Looooollll!!! 🤣🤣🤣😋
I shaln’t tweet that Pedro!!
Pierre
You’re the biggest hypocrite on here so not really taking your opinion as gospel.
Maybe he can tighten up our defence now with some players returning from injury.
Doubtful though since it’s the same clowns as before.
He can always ask the fullbacks to sit back more but then we will hardly create anything offensively.
Sure, play our only 2 goal threats into the ground, no rotation or rest allowed, sounds like a great plan. Ozil I’m sure can pad his underwhelming stats at home against some relegation fodder teams.
Marc
If u believe that – u are being totally unfair.
So all those Dortmund connected players to diamond eye ( Miki + PEA) had nothing to do with Raul And the New regime?
He may have officially started Feb
But surely he must have been involved in last year Jan transfer .
IF he wasn’t- who was ?
And secondly – it makes him look weak- if he allowed all these seismic changes to take without his say so.
Josh needs to sack the Spanish duo.
They are fucking us over.
Thing’s appear to be tight and you ask yourself why.Was Emery
made aware the budget was this tight and is that why perhaps Arteta
stayed put.
If we are looking to replace a Ramsey and we can not run to some of the
expectations on here then a player like Danny Drinkwater should be considered.?
Pivotal in Liecesters winning Premiership side and I believe just 28 he would make a good squad player.
I’m afraid the big names are just not coming get used to it.
Beggars cannot be choosers.?
James. Wood
Love your thinking
A magical suggestion
More British and h20 great combo.!
Gambon
Emery’s comments suggest otherwise. We will see. Will we get proceeds from all the deals you mentioned right in the beginning ? No, right ?
So it’s year since Raul took over the Arsenal reign.
Hasn’t he done well.!!!Miki wages debacle/wrong player swap
He started in February
TR7 what was the reason again for the 25-30 million again? Two seasons in the Europa League? There are clubs who don’t get into Europe with more than that. I’m not buying it but we’ll see won’t we
Official started in Feb
Unofficlaly Jan
Who sanctioned all those deals?
Charlie George
You do realise that Raul Sanllehi and Sven Mislintat are different people that started working at the club at different times?
As for who was involved in the PEA signing well there was a picture of Gazidis and Sven arriving at Dortmund to negotiate the deal. I know it’s more difficult for you compared to other people, after all these facts are only all over the newspapers etc.
PEA is the top scorer in the PL. 24 goals and 7 assists in 34 PL games since he signed.
We have done terribly in the market in recent years, but Auba is an undoubted success.
What?? The Club doesn’t have any money now. The gaffer only needs to buy a frigging keeper, a CB or 2 & a RB/LB who can actually cross the ball to a target in the box. The Club could sell the lazy German for starters……
I’m over that bloody yank owner, in fact there are too many North Americans who tell the English how it is with their football club. They should stick to lumberjacking, &/or poncing about in padding and crash helmets.
Marko
Yeah we will see. I simply tried to project our cash flow for the current financial year based on last 3 years actual cash flows assuming everything remains same. The number was approximately close to 30M. I didn’t take in to account all the deals Gambon is saying we have signed. I am not sure whether all these deals will fetch us cash upfront, we will see.
TR7
They dont need to fetch us cash up front.
Transfer deals arent paid in one sum.
Marc
If U are RIGHT
What a completely dysfunctional, club we have become?
Gazidas is buying players because the newly appointed chief scout has said so?
What about if the new manager didn’t fancy PEA?
PEA was Europa cup tied- Giroud was not..
As for Raul – why take the Arsenal job?
When the chief scout has so much clout?
Official started in Feb
Unofficlaly Jan
Unofficlaly I’m an astronaut and my girlfriend is Scarlett Johansson.
Only on Le Grove will posters write about signing the leading goalscorer in the league like it’s a bad thing
The Giroud most of you keep mentioning has like what? 3 league goals for Chelsea, yea we definitely should have kept him.
“What?? The Club doesn’t have any money now. ” Techically speaking, the club is financially strong and has money to spend. But there is a massive difference between having the money and actually spending it. Kroenke’s lop-sided policy is that the club must be self-sustaining, which means only re-investing funds generated internally. He sets budgets and the club has to stick to them. The bottom line is that Stan will not invest in the club beyond the budget. Stan is not interested in football like us supporters. To understand what is happening at AFC, it is essential to understand Stan’s… Read more »
Kroenke must be the dumbest billionaire on the planet. Big Clubs buy ready made superstars or M’bape types & get the money back on shirt sales, etc don’t they? Why can’t The Arse?
The world in general cares more about The Arsenal Football Club than some dopey American throwball franchise from California. But the man who married money thinks otherwise. Well kroenke, get your head out of stateside, get your head out of your arse, & get the hell out of The Arse.
It’s refreshing to have a manger who just tells the truth when asked about transfers.
We do not have enough money for permanent transfers
We are still paying off Wenger and his assistants
We paid Gazidis off
We paid off Darren Burgess
We are spending shit loads of money on crap this season.
This is a transitional year for us, like a bowel wash-out.
*We paid off Darren Burgess’s last employers in Australia.
Dissenter
We wouldn’t have to pay Gazidis off, he resigned.
Take a deep breath: Arsenal do not have the cash to sign players in January. Not a single one. All this talk of Suarez, Carrasco, etc is utter bullshit. Not news to me, but apparently it is to Pedro and others on here. They are still pointing their fingers at the ghosts of Wenger and Gazidis. The pair were never ghosts, they were puppets, dancing to the tune of a puppeteer. And the puppeteer is still pulling the strings, but with a brand new set of puppets. And we, the fans, who are we? A captive audience watching the horror-show… Read more »
I think Charlie George is actually the most stupid person ever to appear on the internet. It’s quite an achievement.
Lumberjacking? That’s rich you tea sucking limey. America has 5 major professional sports leagues compared to your football and cricket. The most valuable franchise in the world happens to be one of those “throwball” teams you just tried to slight. Your country is so fucking boring people actually still play darts. I remember opening up the sports page at my London hotel years ago and realizing that 9 of the 10 pages were about football with one page left for cricket. So fucking sad. Have fun in your little world on your little island.
I don’t think he’s stupid, he’s created this rambling persona that on here that he feels he has to stick to.
We have spent 135 million on transfer fees for two center forwards in the past 18 months which is sill considering all the glaring holes in the squad. Still, people keep lumping all the blame on Kroenke We’ve been compounding stupid misters with stupider solutions. Kroenke’s self-sufficiency also came with non-intrusion in the daily running of the club. Kroenke didn’t appoint Gazidis and Wenger. He tolerated them because on the surface we seemed like we were in cruise control. It used to be generally accepted that Arsenal was a well run club until we started making mistake after mistake in… Read more »
” Your country is so fucking boring people actually still play darts.”
Then why did Sleazy Stan spend hundreds of millions of dollars buying the club. Can I respectfully suggest that you fuck back off and take Stan with you.
I’m not a big Emery fan but he was always going to find it tough this season,
You can’t change 20+ players in one hit which is what his task was to begin with, the wage bill was a joke for the crap we have.
At least he is not afraid to pull players off at any time when they are not performing, sadly you can only make 3 subs !
Emery taking the Ramsey contract off the table – was a rather stupid thing to do.
Raul ,then Not explaining to Emery that he is not a PSG now with their oil money was also stupid.
Spurs get players signed up and have release clauses in them. E.g. Alderweld.
Some fans on here – are pinning their hopes on these 2.
By the end of the season. There will not be one arsenal fan who will want these 2 in charge of us.
Marc
“We wouldn’t have to pay Gazidis off, he resigned.”
I think his contract was almost up. He left with ‘honor’ and would have been paid off owed benefits and bonuses. . He arranged his own exit and wouldn’t have forfeited anything. We have been run as a honor society my friend,
Englandsbest
‘The pair were never ghosts, they were puppets, dancing to the tune of a puppeteer. And the puppeteer is still pulling the strings, but with a brand new set of puppets.’
Yes, Wenger had to go but Stan is the big elephant in the room.
Maybe I’m weird but I don’t see the problem. I mean, I didn’t know the club was this broke, but oh well….another minus for Wenger’s legacy. We’ll get a few players on loan, and then we’ll have to hope for the best.
Leno looks a liability BTW with his “rush goaly” tactics, put Cech back in.
Dissenter
“We have spent 135 million on transfer fees for two center forwards in the past 18 months which is sill considering all the glaring holes in the squad.
Still, people keep lumping all the blame on Kroenke”
The net spend is only 45 million which equates to 22.5 mil a season , so it’s natural that questions will be asked if the manager says we can only afford loan deals.
Why don’t you kc take the rest of your sunshine band, & piss off back state side.
“Emery taking the Ramsey contract off the table – was a rather stupid thing to do. Raul ,then Not explaining to Emery that he is not a PSG now with their oil money was also stupid.” If this is what passes for logic on LG, then there’s obviously no point engaging in debate. Because, 1.) Did EMERY take the deal off the table, or was it a joint decision (maybe even over Emery’s head)? You said this like Emery came out to announce he didn’t want to give Ramsey a deal 2.) If Raul had explained this concept to Emery… Read more »
I believe that Sanllehi and Mislintat are making the transfer decisions and not Emery. The decision taken to look at Suarez at 25 rather than Banega at 30 seems to confirm this. Also I don’t see Arsenal buying Carrasco because whilst he has talent he is not a goal scoring winger. Arsenal need to be looking at the opposition. The two major contenders for league title are Liverpool with Salah, Firmino and Mane and Man City with Salah, Aguero and Sterling playing up front. Both these teams have three goalscoring options in starting lineup. I still believe that Arsenal are… Read more »
correct Sane not Salah at Man City.
Cheers Pedro for the opportunity to vent. Oh well it’s summer here in my country so I’ll get back to watching us get flogged @ cricket.
When the shit hits the fan we will see a real protest against kronke , the fans will be 100% ( except for a few Muppets on le Grove) United in their quest to oust our American owner …
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46827324
“”We cannot sign permanently. We can only loan players.”
Is this why we moved to the Emirates?
To think we left our home in Highbury for this.
KC, don’t throw stones… darts is getting more popular over here and American’s are watching rugby now.
United in their quest to make a billionaire sell his asset
I thought you said you were 60 years old
Stan is not to blame for where we are. Or should I say financing isnt. Stans lack of leadership is an issue, but hopefully thats all changed. The financing side has been fine. The purchases, sales, and contract management has been appalling. – We let turned down a £60m bid for Sanchez and then swapped him for Mykhitaryan 3.5 months later. Cost us £60m – We let Ozil run his contract down then gave him £350k pw. A decision that cost us £90m – We let Ramsey run down his contract, a decision that cost us £40m – We let… Read more »
Oh and a cardboard cutout would be better than Mustafi, Pascal Cygan with hair !
“Hence the loan with option to buy instead of the obligation to buy Barcelona want”.
I believe that is the cause of the delay. Barc wants to get rid of him. A loan deal with only an option to buy is much better. If it doesn’t work out, it won’t affect our Summer budget.
Emery said that he still needs performance from Ramsey. I am afraid he’ll be disappointed. He would be lucky to get a 50% Ramsey. Ramsey saw first hand what happened to Welbeck
Xhaka, don’t get me started on that twat.
I dont even know why we’re looking at Suarez.
We only have 2 serious injuries. Mykhitaryan is back in a few weeks.
So if we need to add numbers now, surely we needed to in August. So why did Emery knowingly go into the season short?
>>>We spent £35m on Mustafi, when Alderweireld and VanDijk combined wouldve been £22m
They clearly dun goofed for that one. Hell defence could’ve been sorted with those players already. But then again hindsight is 20/20.
Disenter
Terrific post ,nailed it_ re: kroenke
gambon
January 10, 2019 16:23:28
—————————
Probably the most depressing post I’ve ever read about us, so sad.
I’d like to think that the message put out that ‘we have no money for transfers’ is simply a way of dampening down the expectations of selling/loaning clubs. Of course we have money. As ES and others have said, if an opportunity arises we might splash, otherwise a loan deal or two would be an inexpensive punt for the next 16 PL games, keeping our our major changes for the summer. I’m hoping that we’ve already identified 2/3 players already and are some of the way there in acquiring them in the summer TW. I would prefer an ambitious January… Read more »
The problem is we can’t add numbers because our wage bill is so bloated and we can’t offload anyone.
If you were on £350k a week, would you move somewhere else for half that and have to work twice as hard for it ?
And gambon, great post.
What u have outlined there- is why they won’t ask kroenke for more money..
He would say-U CAN’T BE TRUSTED !
I’ll get people who can – before U HAVE MINE
Gazidas has killed us.!
Losing Gnabry and holding on to Campbell was so so stupid.
Emery: “We cannot make payments to sign players. We can only loan players. I don’t know about his [Suarez] situation. But we can only sign players on loan. I know the club is working to find players who can help us, with this condition.”
Stan can’t sanction even 25-30M spend to help us get over the line in the race for top 4.
Losing Gnabry and holding on to Campbell was so so stupid.
Raul and Emery advised that before joining, they were already in charge then unofficially
I think I asked this yesterday – did we get anything for Joel Campbell?
Danny,
“Did we get anything for Joel Cambell”
Yes we did,
Shafted !
David Ospina has said that he enjoys playing for Carlo Ancelotti as the manager has given him ‘confidence’.
A player is more committed if he has the trust of his manager. I believe that Suarez will perform well under Emery. It is not easy to find a suitable player in Jan. Suarez is a save choice.
If Arsenal and only Arsenal are going to be sticklers to FFP- I sincerely hope that When Man City are charged by UEFA for financial misconduct.
We SUE Man City for loss of earnings/revenue.
A sure way thing to boost our coffers!
What Bruce Rioch did for Arsenal – looking back 20 years on from his arrival The hard-nosed Scot gets a bad rep for his ill-fated season at Highbury, but Jon Spurling says plenty of good was done too… Jon Spurling’s picture byJon Spurling Published17 June 2015 Twenty years ago, Bruce Rioch was unveiled as Arsenal’s new boss having guided Bolton to successive promotions. His one-year tenure is hardly remembered fondly, punctuated by bust-ups with senior pros including Ian Wright, and a frosty relationship with vice chairman David Dein. Thus, the former Bolton manager has been virtually airbrushed from Gunners history.… Read more »
“Rich coming from you a person utterly allergic to any form of Wenger criticism ready to jump in at a moment’s notice to defend and divert. Who’s fault is it we don’t have any players good enough to fetch a huge fee for in this ridiculous market? Of course Stan.“ Nothing rich about it, just you failing to comprehend what’s being said as per usual. Probably the loudest dumb guy going, not a great combo. Receding Make a totally unrelated remark and claim I’m full of it, supreme stuff. Remember and come up for air when you’re done in Emery’s… Read more »
has City ever been penalized about anything?
Chelsea have 39 players out on loan.
Arsenal have 7 on loan would this help a little to
explain our bloated wage bill .
Without Ozil and the likes bloated wages coming into it.?
Make a totally unrelated remark and claim I’m full of it, supreme stuff. Remember and come up for air when you’re done in Emery’s colon.
You brought up a scoreline that appears to you to be the end of the world and i showed u similar scorelines from other manager’s first seasons and it’s unrelated??
There was a time i actually thought u were smart, seems like another lifetime
KC Love your counter “anti- British” argument. Made me lol. Football, Rugby, Cricket, Hockey, Cycling, Netball, Squash,Tiddlywinks, Darts……you name it, we’ve got it all. What country has a world series in major league baseball and yet only plays amongst themselves? If it was a world series let the likes of Cuba, Japan, Puerto Rico etc enter the competition. Oh yeh, can’t do that can you because you probably wouldn’t win it. Don’t get me started on time-outs in every bloody sport and the fact that food and drink takes priority for many when they go to a sporting event. Of… Read more »
“You brought up a scoreline that appears to you to be the end of the world and i showed u similar scorelines from other manager’s first seasons and it’s unrelated??“ You’re getting as bad as Marko, you chase down a path that’s the offered up because it’s an argument you want to counter. I’m not questioning Emery off of one scoreline, I made my concerns known when he was appointed, as things were developing, and at the midway point – where I previously said it would be a fair time to comment. Nothing has changed for me and I’ve given… Read more »
I don’t know about this new regime. We as fans need players to relate to. That we consider our own. That we would get attached to in time. That we would be proud to have him in our club and have him as a good influence and also someone who has been here for a long time, knows the ins and outs of the club, and actually has the talent to help on the pitch game in game out. I don’t want to relate to mothereffin Ozil. I want to relate to Ramsey. Walcott was another. Professionalism and both wanted… Read more »
Thank God Ramsey will soon leave. What a bang average player.
Now only for Jenkinson to leave. Can’t believe he got a five year deal (thanks a lot Arsene!).
CC, reality is, RH can defend all he wants, Emery’s tenure is going nowhere.
The worst argument I seem to get is: But who else could do a better job?
Fans said that about Wenger for 14 years, let’s hope this problem doesn’t last as long.
Remember and come up for air when you’re done in Emery’s colon.
While your criticism of him has blossomed into the above..keep it up
When you are not going after Kroenke, go after Emery, all this in a pathetic attempt to exonerate the man who assembled the most loop sided squad ever and who wasted hundreds of millions on players in the last decade without recouping any of that money back in sales like every other club in the world seems to be doing
Am least the Emery comment today puts paid to all the speculation about us buying players anytime soon .
Now we can get on with watching the football.
The worst argument I seem to get is: But who else could do a better job?Fans said that about Wenger for 14 years, let’s hope this problem doesn’t last as long
Like you said the other day this has been talked to death already……
Emery’s tenure is going nowhere.
In your opinion
Saying “who else could do a better job?” after a decade and saying it after 6 months are quite different don’t you think?
I guess these reactionary fellows are the “let’s annul this marriage!” types. You all probably have commitment issues in your personal lives.
Saying “who else could do a better job?” after a decade and saying it after 6 months are quite different don’t you think?
I don’t really get how rational men can say stuff like that after six months and expect to be taking seriously.
Simply because you disagreed with him getting the job does not mean all sense of reasoning should go out the window, i am disappointed…very disappointed
I see this being misquoted everywhere. But we did not lose Sanchez for 35 million quid. It was a straight swap with Mkhi, no cash was involved.
What’s the average tenure of a manager in England RH?
1.2 years-ish for the league… 1.8 years for a EPL manager
He’s what, 7-8months into the job now?
It’s fair to make a judgment
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11688/9875915/average-tenure-of-managers-in-england-just-1-23-years
Raptora
10000% correct.
Beautifully put
To lose players like Walcott and Ramsey to transient foreign talents is utterly wrong.
And not only is Wrong-ITS DOOMED TO FAIL !
How we think it’s suitable that Raul- can come here from Barca and be in charge of Arsenal is ludicrous .
Another insane appointment by the discredited Gazidas!
I see this being misquoted everywhere. But we did not lose Sanchez for 35 million quid. It was a straight swap with Mkhi, no cash was involved.
City wanted Sanchez for £60m. You value Mkhi at £60m?
Not a single Pundit, Football Commentator or even opposition fans have criticized Emery ..Why?? Even there understand how fat behind we have fallen in relation to other top clubs in the league and the patience and investment required to bridge that gap. They say they cannot see what he is trying to do, Paulinho has explained it quite a few times on here but it gets ignored, anyone who watched Sevilla and Valencia under Emery know how he likes his teams to play, he has tweaked it most times here, often to get us all three points. Did anyone really… Read more »
Sancho, you don’t commit to something that’ll fail.
We just spent 10 years doing that. Unhappy marriages aren’t good for anyone
If I have a car worth £10k then swap it for a car worth five I think I’ve lost £5k. But that’s just me.
On the plus side, we got good money for Ramsey who isn’t a word class player and could have left on a free next summer.
*world class
What’s the average tenure of a manager in England RH?
Don’t know and excuse me but i do not particularly care
You say you have not seen improvements…fair enough
Well i have
So i guess we will leave it at that
Sancho, you don’t commit to something that’ll fail.
That’s is the essence of having successful life.
Rectify your mistakes ,pronto
Don’t plough on- because u Think that’s the ethical thing to do.