Khedira for Ramsey? Oh my…

by .

The Mesut Ozil story continues to drag on, and as suspected, the chances of him leaving are somewhere in the region of no chance, to no f*cking chance. This is what his agent told GOAL.

“Unless you are on the inside and privy to what happens on a daily basis, it is best not to speculate.

“In every journey there are highs and lows, but it is important to consider the bigger picture rather than simply making knee-jerk judgements without proper context.

“The speculation around Mesut’s future has not come from him or us and is unfortunate because the situation is clear: his future is with Arsenal, end of story.”

It’s not surprising, the German’s agent pulled off the heist of the century with the deal he reeled in. He knew our exCEO was ego driven, he knew the club couldn’t lose Sanchez and his client at the same time, he squeezed right up until the last minute. £350k a week is staggering… likely why the club is e-mailing its staff to cut down on kettle boils at the Colney training ground.

What is interesting is how the Aaron Ramsey saga is playing out. Remember, his agent, a firm believer that his client was of more value than Mesut, was pushing for similar money. Arsenal pulled the rug from that deal when Emery realised he wasn’t going to extract the value he needed from Aaron, and maybe found out the extent of our finances. Now he’s likely to be a free agent in the summer, Juve has come knocking. This is what Fabio Paratichi had to say (SD).

“He’s a great player, we really like him and he plays for a great team. His contract is expiring and we’re always alerted to situations that the market offers, so we’ve also been alerted to Ramsey.”

The salary they’re talking about is closer to £150k a week… which looks more like a 50% payrise, and much more in keeping with the sort of money you’d expect him to be bringing in. Italian football is certainly a lifestyle choice more than anything, no doubt he’ll pick up some world class coaching, he’ll eat like a king and the tax laws now work more favourably for foreign stars. If you pay a 100,000 euros flat fee on your foreign income, that’s all you pay. Great if you’re Ronaldo, but likely advantageous if you’re Aaron. Boot deals, foreign tours and CL income can all be written off this way… so he could make up his cash that way. Ideally though, his biggest win is the truckload of trophies he’ll pick up. (I read that we’re considering Khedira as part of the deal and my eyes began to bleed)

The harsh reality of our world right now is we’re paying Champions League wages without the revenue. Arsenal has to take a sledgehammer to that this summer and recalibrate. I cannot listen to people tell me it’s impossible for us to compete when we have such bad finances.

The Swiss Ramble has a threaded tweet above that analyses how much money club owners pile into their vanity purchase.

SPOILER ALERT: Stan K hasn’t put in a penny of his own money into the Arsenal kitty (Though commendably, we pay the most tax by a margin)

Whereas… Chelsea and City are almost totally bankrolled by their hideous owners.

Now, you could get on your high horse about how f*cking tragic this is, or you could stop being a bitch and look at the opportunity we had and now have.

Stan hasn’t spent his own money, but he’s also not taken out. I can’t be outraged about a tiny bit of fee back in the day. Who fucking cares?

The issue with Arsenal has been that we’ve been deeply inefficient with our cash. Our wage bill is hideous, our player purchases have been very average and I think it’s fair to say that the young player production line has been pretty miserable for over a decade.

Think about this, in the world of crazy transfer fees, we’ve never sold a player for £50m! Our biggest ever sale was Oxlade Chamberlain at £35m.

The absolute key to Arsenal moving forward is to invest proper money in the best young talent from around the globe. Arsenal needs to aggressively target young players with a high ceiling, even if that means some transfers looking at the higher end of the spectrum. We can’t keep taking small gambles on OK young players, then investing average money into players with no resale value. That’s why Sokratis and Banega don’t work for me.

Think about Dortmund, they just sold bench merchant Pulisic for £58m! Sancho cost £9m and he’s worth £90m!

Arsenal can compete, but we need to make more aggressive moves on our wage bill and we need to come up with a more interesting approach on the field.

I don’t want to bang on about Spurs too much, but I think the Poch is such an interesting coach because he does such a huge amount with the players he brings in. Almost every single one improves. They work hard, they stay fit and they play on for the cause on smaller contracts than the rest of the league. He ALWAYS gives the kids a go. Do you think he’d have played Lichtsteiner over a young player against Liverpool? No way. He’d have thrown a well trained kid into the mixer.

The only way we get to that level is if we have a coach that young players know will make them better, and if we create a project that is really enticing. We’ve kind of worked the other way traditionally. We’ve enticed average players with big money on the promise they won’t get better, but damn, will they be comfortable in a world of unaccountability.

Question is, will players gravitate towards our current coach? Can he make players x3 what they were? Time will tell. The great thing about the new era is if it’s not working out, we can recalibrate quickly and work towards something a little less safe and a little more visionary.

Well, we can do that if Raul, Vinai and Sven really want to the kick the club forward and really want to attack a strategy that feels progressive. If those guys live in a comfort zone, we’re really in trouble.

Right, that’s me done, see you in the comments.

459 Responses to “Khedira for Ramsey? Oh my…”

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  1. grooveydaddy


    I just read tweet from Mathias Karen saying that in the last 10 years, we’re the only PL club where the owner hasn’t invested a single penny. I think it was off the back of that Swiss Ramble thread.

  2. DM

    Good piece, Pedro.

    Our youth development has been poor for a long time. Hoping it’ll improve massively under the new regime. It’s a shame, I used to get so excited watching the youngsters and thinking of the potential of what’s to come. Carling Cup (as it was then) used to be such fun to watch with the kids getting a run-out. But the years have ebbed away my faith. The Walcotts, Ox’s, Wilsheres… they never really came good like we thought they would. Not to mention the Zelalems, Eisfelds, Akpoms, and the list goes on.

    So now when I watch them I’m extremely reluctant to read too much into it. Yes, Reiss Nelson looks a talent. But so did so many others. Nketiah is yet to impress me in the slightest. Saka… sure, he had a good game in the Europa League. Doesn’t mean anything.

    Really hope they come good for us. It’s not fair for me to judge this current batch on their predecessor’s failure, but it’s a shame how my enthusiasm has been slowly taken away by the Wenger reign.

  3. Champagne charlie

    “That confirms that Arsenal is run solely as a business without any financial commitment or passion from Kroenke.”

    If that’s true it’s an embarrassing indicator. You can skip the “Kroenke was/is adhering to self-sustainable” bollocks. The guy has full control, he can do as he pleases – do me a favour hiding behind faux principle.

    We’re a dream club to have with a modern history of never seeing ANY payment from owners into the club.

    Eventually people will come to terms with the inevitable ‘law’ of business, leadership starts at the top of the hierarchy. This notion the top guy at Arsenal can be passive, as suggested, and the team be successful is a joke.

  4. Idowu

    The thing about Selling young players for big profit sometimes depends on the selling club. Some clubs are famous for developing great young players . When your club is not doing well, the resale value of your young players drop drastically.

    ##So i think us not wining the league for a long time has really affected our young players resale value .

    Compare Iwobi with Dele Ali for example. Now u get my point. Even Foden in Man city might value more than Alex Iwobi

  5. gambon

    I dont think Stan not putting money in is a huge issue.

    We have a big wage bill, and have made purchases including £56m, £46m, £42m, £35m, £35m, £35m, £34m, £27m, £22m, £16m on Chambers who had about 15 games experience. All but one of these players is at the club.

    We have a net spend higher than Liverpool and CHelsea in recent years.

    The big issue at the club is that from a transfers and contracts point of view we are utterly broken.

    The main reason we havent invested more in recent years is that we have completely failed to get value for our sales.

    Liverpool sold a young keeper that had never played for £12m, we are getting £3m for Ospina. Liverpool have just loaned a kid thats never played to Portugal with a £13m buy figure, we got £4m (a £13m loss) for Lucas Perez.

    CHelsea got £50m for the combined sales of Ake, Traore and Abraham.

    I think Kroenke would be open to investment not Usmanov is out of the way, however why on earth would he put money into such a mess of an operation. Until the operation is fixed, he is right to put nothing in.

    The only light at the end of the tunnel is Sven Mislintat.

    Look at the profits on Dembele, Pulisic, Aubameyang, Gundogan, Hummells etc. Then think of the future profits on Zagadou, Akanji, Weigl, Sancho.

    He surely has to be the best transfer profit generator in the game. The question is, does he still have it?

  6. DM


    Sorry mate, disagree. Sure, if we were winning the league regularly with youngsters, their value would sky-rocket… but if we have real stand-out talent, they would still be highly valued today. Look at Southampton and the money they’ve fetched for practically their entire academy (mostly to Liverpool!). Look at Liverpool selling Sterling to City… they didn’t win the league and weren’t doing all that well at the time.

  7. Paulinho

    “What is interesting is how the Aaron Ramsey saga is playing out. Remember, his agent, a firm believer that his client was of more value than Mesut,”

    Ornstein has already refuted that. He was looking for parity with Mkhitaryan.

  8. Alexanderhenry


    A very revealing article. Thank you for the Swiss ramble link.

    However, I think you’ve got it very wrong.
    According to Swiss ramble only the owners of Arsenal and Middlesbrough have invested nothing into their clubs.

    Make no mistake, for Arsenal football club, that is an absolute, fucking disgrace.

    Shrugging your shoulders and dismissing it as a fact of life is not the right attitude.

    Arsenal fans have been paying some of the highest ticket prices in football for years and for what?
    I’ll tell you.:to watch lesser players play lightweight, also ran football and, crucially to pay off a stadium debt that is actually Kroenke’s debt- not the fans’.

    The whole thing is a con, a rip off.

    Also, to quote you:

    ‘The absolute key to Arsenal moving forward is to invest proper money in the best young talent from around the globe.’

    Are you serious? We’ve been here before. Project to youth 2.0? It won’t work.

    I said it 6 or 7 years ago and I’ll say it again.

    The main problem with Arsenal football club is its owner. Nothing’ s changed.

    Kroenke out.

  9. Pierre


    So Ramsey leaving is not about money ,it is about football ability and Arsenal have decided that he is not good enough .

  10. Paulinho

    Pierre – No, because £200.000 a week is still too much to carry with Mkhitaryan on it and that useless cunt Ozil on £350,000.

  11. Champagne charlie


    Disagree, it’s a huge issue because it highlights his incompatibility as a football owner. But I don’t say that simply by reducing his tenure to a zero.

    That zero is 14 million for instance at Spurs, and they’re hardly struggling. The point about Kroenke is his apathy and detachment from what the game demands/requires.

    He’s been here a decade and his “influence” on the club is non-descript. Which given his position, is utterly disgraceful.

    You can be low-end when comparing yourself to an Abramovich, but to do that you hire the best in the business, have a line of adherence you stick to, and fucking nail a game plan (whether it’s Chelseas hoarding, Dortmund’s wunderkids, or somewhere in between).

    Arsenal under Kroenke have no vision, no execution, no adherence to a particular standard, and no chance in the Prem under this setup without change. You can argue the merits of investing when not the full owner, but he was majority owner when he handed us the budget this summer in his typically “as you were” fashion. The defence for Kroenke as an owner is paper thin if you ask me and he has two windows to change tact.

  12. Alexanderhenry


    We got £35 million for the ox, £20 million for Walcott and £18 million for giroud.

    That’s pretty good business.

    Also I’m not sure what you mean by this:

    ‘why on earth would he (kroenke) put money into such a mess of an operation. Until the operation is fixed, he is right to put nothing in.’

    Well, it’s his ‘operation’ isn’t it? I mean he owns it.
    If it’s a mess it’s his fault. He’s the boss.

    If it becomes too much of a mess hopefully he’ll sell it to someone with genuine ambition.

  13. Alexanderhenry


    Agreed but ‘non descript’ is too kind.

    Let’s be honest, Kroenke got involved when arsenal were a top three club.
    He has since made us a top six club.

    He has been a dreadful owner.

  14. Dissenter

    Chelsea are set to sell Callum Hudson-Adoi to Bayern for at least £30 million.
    I always despair every time I read people bitching about commercial revenue like that’s the crux of the matter.

    We need to get to good young talent first, not become the club that the fans just drop names of every player making their break-outs.

  15. loyika

    Funny how some Arsenal fans are snubbing their noses at Rambo and yet Juve want him?

    Not saying he will do much over there or be a success if he goes but Allegri (and Juve heads) must see something in him many of our Fans don’t?

    Funny (if true) that the club will block him moving in the Jan TW? Why? Don’t we have targets in line that could replace him?

    Where is the Benega signing that we’ve been yapping about all through December? Chelsea aren’t mucking about with their business, our team better get on with it before it gets to “Trolley dash” time.

  16. Dissenter

    Kroenke has been a bad owner not because of a lack of spending but because of his absence. Had he been present. We wouldn’t have made fundamental mistakes over the past decade.
    The owners at Westham were shitty but at least they were man enough to show up to take abuse from fans.
    It’s Kroenke’s passive and indifferent approach to ownership that’s killing the club. I bet he can’t name three players in the team.

  17. Danny

    The salary they’re talking about is closer to £150k a week
    ….but he’ll get a huge signing on fee which will take him way over 200 grand a week.
    I for one like Aaron, not just because of that one half season when he played out of skin, but for his overall career with us. He rarely gets booked, probably never sent off, has been decent Arsenal player and never ever forget what that cunt Shawcross did to him.

  18. Bamford10

    The only “mess” at Arsenal is the squad. The men running the club — Vinai, Raul, Sven, Unai — are smart, competent and ambitious.

    If they think Stan needs to reach into his own pockets, they will ask him to do so. They clearly did not do this this summer, in part because they believe we can win on the basis of the club’s self-sustaining model — adopted before Kroenke became owner — and in part because they over-estimated the existing squad.

    All talk of Kroenke is completely beside the point. Jesus Christ.

  19. unai's clean socks

    look at Pedro expanding on my acquiring young talent post.
    what a beast, may you have great sex soon sir.

  20. Pierre

    Just imagine where we would be as a club if kronke had the foresight to invest some money into the club around 10/12 years ago…

    He let Chelsea and then man city steal a match on the club ..

    Wenger took all of the blame/flak but ,if you remember , he went out and bought wiltord and Reyes for big money a few years prior when the club was flying so for people to suggest that he didn’t want to spend the millions that were supposedly on offer, was wrong.

    Wenger had built another great football team (with no money)after the invincibles and the quality of the football was sublime . …rvp,ade,eduardo,nasri,ces,hleb,rosicki,sagna,cliche,song….with the likes of Wilshire and Walcott waiting in the wings to break through …what a team they were.

    All it needed was for kronke to release some of his fortune to buy a top class goalkeeper,defender and midfielder and we wouldn’t have looked back ..

    How different it could have been .

  21. Bamford10


    Complete nonsense. You seem to have forgotten that Wenger made all decisions and that this is a man who said if he was given 100m to spend on signings he would give it back. You’re also repeating Englandsbest’s bogus claim about Wenger asking Kroenke for money for a GK and CB.

    Dishonest nonsense.

  22. Champagne charlie

    Kroenke’s number one fan has joined the party.

    The owner of the football club is “beside the point” apparently when discussing Arsenal in totality.

    “The men running the club — Vinai, Raul, Sven, Unai — are smart, competent and ambitious”

    1) How long have these guys been here in Stan’s decade at Arsenal
    2) You can only be any of those things through action, so it very much remains to be seen

  23. Pierre

    It’s strange how Tottenham are basically following the same path as Arsenal with regard to stadium build , football team and manager…

    Will be interesting to see how it pans out for them ….will the players start to leave due to lack of silverware and being offered fortunes to join the oil rich clubs as Arsenal players did all them years ago.

    Will pochettino stay loyal to the club or will be be enticed away ……the latter probably…

    Then who knows what will happen to Tottenham in their shiny new stadium.

  24. Jim Lahey

    @Bamford –

    “They clearly did not do this this summer, in part because they believe we can win on the basis of the club’s self-sustaining model”

    Do you know this as fact, or is it conjecture?

  25. Pierre

    If wenger was averse to spending then how do you explain the expensive purchases of wiltord and Reyes prior to kronke’s arrival as obviously those players were bought on wenger’s recommendation.

  26. raptora

    We should target players like Aaron Wan-Bissaka. Kid has a great future ahead of him. English, tall, crazy fast and powerful. At 21 yo he can only get better and better. Has been one of Palace’s best players this season and at the end of last. We should focus at acquiring rising stars like him. Has already somewhat proven that he is good enough to be play on this level, but with potential to become much better in time. Highly atletic at 183 cm, 2 MotM performances this season. Kid’s very good.

  27. Bamford10


    One, given that the club runs on a self-sustaining model, the owner is in fact somewhat besides the point. As long as the men who are actually running the club are smart and competent — under Wenger this wasn’t the case, as dipshit was running the club — then all is as well as it can be.

    Two, as I have said many times, I couldn’t care less about Stan Kroenke; I do care, however, about an honest and truthful assessment of what is going on at Arsenal. You lot just want to vent your spleens and cry about the owner, and in doing so, you often misrepresent the situation at the club — both the present situation and its recent past. It is also no coincidence that you lot are for the most part all former AKB’s.

  28. Bamford10


    It is deductive reasoning. If they asked him to dip into his own pockets this summer and he balked, we would have heard about it; and if we didn’t hear about it then, we definitely would have heard about it by now.

    Also, look at what Emery said about the squad; it’s crystal clear that he thought we only needed some “touching up,” as it were, to finish fourth.

  29. Pierre

    My prediction..

    Joe and Marko will be on the scene soon spewing abuse at anyone who dared to suggest that it wasn’t all wenger’s fault .

    As the days ,weeks ,months and years go on it will become apparent where the problem lies and people like joe and Marko will find it very difficult to eat humble pie.

  30. Champagne charlie

    “Two, as I have said many times, I couldn’t care less about Stan Kroenke; I do care, however, about an honest and truthful assessment of what is going on at Arsenal. “

    Oh honesty and truthful…

    “ the owner is in fact somewhat besides the point. As long as the men who are actually running the club are smart and competent — under Wenger this wasn’t the case, as dipshit was running the club”

    So Stan is all gravy when the people are apparently competent and ambitious, but when they weren’t it was on Wenger despite Stan being owner throughout?

    Gotcha. Any other Americans want to brief me on the meaning of “honest and truthful”? Either there’s a considerable difference, or Banford is being a colossal fucktard. I’m open to learn.

  31. loyika

    Getting Bam to give an critique of Stan K!? The biblical rapture would take place before that happens.

    Too bad his fall too guy in this is no longer around as Manager to present a shield.

    He still refuses to let us know how we will know if Sven and co have asked Stan K to dip into his pockets to release the purse strings a bit more.

    How will we know what goes on behind doors? Will the Manager go all “Conte” and come out to say he is not being supported with what we need? Will Stan release a statement to say we have enough money available?

    Fact is we will see with our own eyes and judge from what we see interms of our dealings in the TW (If not this one then definately in the Summer)

    That will show us if we mean business as a club and fans can make up their minds on who takes the credit or blame depending on how the Transfer team do with what is made available for them to spend.

  32. qna

    It’s going to be hard to compete with sides that have owners putting in money and we don’t. No doubt about that.

    But ultimately that is not much of an excuse for us as we have mismanaged our money so badly. Over the past 10-15 years we have regularly spent money, but on players that lacked quality. Often we missed quality players by under valuing them by an amount that we could have easily afforded. Yet we then went and overpaid for poor quality alternatives.

    We could have been a much better side, possibly even competing for trophies if we spent more money on fewer players. I am not sure how much of our decision making was based on statDNA but from the outside it could explain a lot of what had happened.

    It’s been one transfer window under the new regime. It was always going to take 5 or 6 in my view. I am still positive about what we can do under Raul and Sven, but it will take 3-5 years to know exactly how much of a disadvantage it is to have an absent owner who doesn’t invest in comparison to our rivals.

  33. Jim Lahey

    @Bamford –

    I understand where your reasoning is coming from, however I personally don’t believe if such as situation “If they asked him to dip into his own pockets this summer and he balked” did occur we would necessarily hear about it.

    I am sure that many things go on at the board level that are never heard about. I don’t know if they asked Stan for money or not, yet I do know that Stan hasn’t contributed anything to the cause.

    The reason I asked if it was conjecture or not was because it seemed like you were trying to build an argument on a piece of information that you presented to be fact when it may not have been.

    I believe a club doesn’t need to be bloated with an owners cash to be somewhat successful, but its clear that any club that wants to compete and remain competitive needs a degree of financial backing from their owner.

  34. qna

    By the way, I hate Stan K with a passion. But I’ll stick with him every day of the week over this Nigerian fellow. It’s not the least bit racist either. From the comments of his that I have seen in the past, alarm bells ring. Football is serious business and the owners need to have more vision for a club than just stroking a rich mans ego. A bad owner could bankrupt the club permanently.

  35. Bamford10

    Good article from James Olley.

    “The Spaniard deserves credit for injecting fresh versatility into a squad so rigid that Wenger’s switch to a back three felt like a revolution at the time, but there is a sense he is still searching for his best system.”

    “Arsenal in throwback to Wenger era as late flurry can’t mask old failings”

  36. Uwot?

    The goalposts have changed in the prem.somple as that.yes the clubs financials have been badly run.gazidis & co deserve a big F ** k u for that.All the cash rich boasting wasted.No advantage whatsoever in moving to a larger stadium.shit transfers.ridic wages.hopless youth development. A reliance on financial fair play.dont laugh. Massive mistakes.All under Kroenkes watch with an eglomaniac left to run it 10 years past his sell buy date.This is what we’re having to deal with.its going to take time folks & possibly a few managerial changes to get there.unless Emery works magic.or ideally Kroenke gets the big day he eventually wants & f** is off into the wild blue yonder…..

  37. Receding Hairline

    The Arsenal situation is pretty clear

    Patience, and smart investments.

    If we bring in the right players and Emery still cannot get the best out of them he takes a walk. Those calling for him to be sacked after six months because they claim they have not seen any progress i have no words for them.

    Especially those asking why we sacked Wenger if all we needed were better players, forgetting that Wenger was solely responsible for assembling this hideous squad and has always kicked against the appointment of a DOF.

  38. abei

    In Kenya Arsenal is the most loved club, if the club can buy a 2 defender, a young keeper and a winger it can strenghen the squrd en win the rest of matches

  39. gambon


    I agree that Kroenke s hardly a great leader.

    However, I meant that at this stage, financial input isnt really the most important thing. In fact the only reason why there is a looming issue, is the complete financial mismanagement with regards contracts, wages and transfers.

    Kroenke was never going to make big cash injections while he owned 66% of the club anyway. That would be akin to giving Usmanov money for no reason.

    I think he would be open to investing, but i’ll say again, we’ve been such a mess that what would he have been investing into?

    We would have 2 Mustafis, 2 Xhakas, we wouldve made huge losses on more and more players.

    We would have Carl Jenkinosn on £80k per week, even though we cant get rid on £40k per week. We would have Ozil on £500k per week even though £350k per week is an absolute joke.

    The model needs to change before investment will happen.

    I bet if he were owner at Dortmund he would happily invest.

  40. Bamford10

    By the way, the Arsecast extra after the Liverpool loss was quite good. At one point Stillman goes over how poorly we spent/managed our money in Wenger’s last 4-5 years. Definitely worth a listen. His frustration with Mustafi is pretty funny as well.

  41. kc

    We definitely need to be focusing on bringing in more young talent like Torreira and Guendouzi. But you’re not going to be challenging for a CL spot with just a bunch of young future prospects. You’ve got to have some veteran leadership mixed in to make it work. If Ozil is unreliable and Ramsey is already packing his bags then we need a proper CM. Banega at 20 million is a good deal for a solid player that can help steady the midfield right now. Quit trying to deny Emery one of his favorite players in his second fucking window. How pathetic.

  42. Champagne charlie

    “However, I meant that at this stage, financial input isnt really the most important thing.“

    I agree, Spurs ownership has put in 14 mil during the period analysed and they’re miles ahead in the areas I touched upon. Their identity and strategy is crystal clear, and they’ve hired as per that vision which has led them to where they are now.

    Ultimately they fall short because financial investment is an imperative to break the final glass ceiling, but they’ve done the rest admirably. Annoyingly so.

    The investment issue with Stan is contentious still for me, but more so is the apathy. We’re literally seeing an owner just exist as an owner of Arsenal and nothing more. His responsibility is getting watered down by morons who want to absolve him of it all, and all this does is creat a vortex of blame among the circle below.

    Eventually the gaze needs to fall squarely on him, he sets the vision, he demands the strategy, he employs those to fulfill it. When it’s clouded, failing, stuttering, or if it’s thriving, he gets the requisite adulation/blame.

  43. Dr Emil schaffhausen

    I can’t believe that some people on here deem Kroenke as an acceptable owner ,
    He is rarely seen and manages to make a statement once a year , I think it’s supremely arrogant and avoiding accountability, that’s probably why he loved Wenger so much , two of a kind.
    Things will never progress under his ownership and now we are going with a new manager , more and more will realise this is the case.

  44. Bamford10

    Emery has just stated that the club has no interest in Keylor Navas (despite reports to the contrary) and it sounds like he would prefer Ramsey to stay till the summer.

    “At the end of the season is the moment he can go to one team or another team.”

  45. alexanderhenry

    Let’s be clear about this. Kroneke is the ONLY current owner of a Premier league club not to have invested any money in his club.

    This is totally unacceptable for a club of Arsenal’s stature and a kick in the teeth for fans who have dutifully been paying some of the highest ticket prices in football.

    Also, let’s not forget Kroenke has just paid top dollar to buy out Usmanov’s shares and will acquire the remaining 10% owned by other shareholders. He borrowed the money to do this by the way.
    Why? He was in full control anyway?
    The only reason I can think of is to load Arsenal fc with more debt so that he can finance the Rams new stadium.
    I can’t think of any other reason.

    This man will ruin Arsenal.

    Also, I find it staggering that some of you seem to think that we can get back to the top via project youth 2.0.

    A team full of Guendozis just won’t cut it.

  46. Graham62


    “All it needed was for Kroenke to release some of his fortune to buy a top class goalkeeper, defender and midfielder and we wouldn’t have looked back”

    If it only it had been that simple.

  47. E54_

    “Whereas… Chelsea and City are almost totally bankrolled by their hideous owners.”

    Seems like some of you would love it if Stan invested his own money. Maybe give emery 150M to help with transfers. Rebuild the squad into a title challenging team.

    Why is it cool if we were to do it. But its ‘hedious ‘ when Man city do it? Should Citys owners treat their club like Mike Ashley does his? Remember when Roman first came in and was improving his club. What did people say, “he’ll lose interest after a few years and leave chelsea saddled with untold amounts of debt”. The bitterness, the hate, the jealousy.. 10+ years and look who’s still crying and complaining? It’s still Arsenal fans. We’ve been mugged off by Wenget Gazidis Stan and the rest of the board.

  48. gambon

    “A team full of Guendozis just won’t cut it.”

    A team with Zagadou, Akanji, Weigl, Reus, Sancho, Ousmane Dembele and Auba upfront would walk into the CL,

    Not to mention the hundreds of £m we would make to invest back into buying the best players.

  49. alexanderhenry

    Jim Lahey

    ‘I believe a club doesn’t need to be bloated with an owners cash to be somewhat successful, but its clear that any club that wants to compete and remain competitive needs a degree of financial backing from their owner.’


  50. Marko

    The only reason I can think of is to load Arsenal fc with more debt so that he can finance the Rams new stadium.
    I can’t think of any other reason.

    Also, I find it staggering that some of you seem to think that we can get back to the top via project youth 2.0.

    Worth noting back when we were “on top” it wasn’t because of some sugar daddy putting his own money into the club. We’ve never had that ever we’re self sufficient always. If you got a problem with that I’d ask why now and not at any point in the past?

  51. Charlie George

    As always – great stuff from Le grove.

    Kudos to Arsenal for being HMRC league Champions.
    Spurs even come 2ND in that table.

    I, Le Grove & all other contributors has paid more tax than Liverpool FC last year!
    How , the hell – can that be right?
    Thats insane, farcical and downright digusting,

    The hypocrisy of those socialist, Scoucers never ceases to amaze.

  52. alexanderhenry


    ‘Why is it cool if we were to do it. But its ‘hedious ‘ when Man city do it?’

    I’ve never judged city and chelsea for being bankrolled. If Stan decided to do the same I’d be jumping for joy- he never would though.

    We can argue about the rights and wrongs of it- in an ideal world there’d be more a level playing field. But football isn;t like that. It’s a money game and that’s how it is.

    What is infruriating is that we have a multi billionaire owner who has put nothing into Arsenal at all. Not a penny, and worse, has essentially conned the fans into to paying off the stadium debt that in reality in his.

  53. Marko

    So three of the Big Six clubs have been largely financed by cash generated from operations: #AFC 100%, #THFC 81% and #MUFC 80%. In contrast, others have been much more reliant on owner financing: #MCFC 90% and #CFC 86%. #LFC is more balanced: operations 53%, owners 40%.

    City and Chelsea have sugar daddies that’s obvious Liverpool have a problem with their stadium being small so it’s understandable that you would get investment from their owner(s). A bit of a difference with the other clubs that is obvious in that the other clubs have big stadiums with big revenue coming in. Understandable a bit considering that’s why we moved to a new stadium. There is certainly a correlation between some owner investment and competing though Spurs have only had 19% apparently and they’re competing.

  54. azed

    “A team with Zagadou, Akanji, Weigl, Reus, Sancho, Ousmane Dembele and Auba upfront would walk into the CL,”

    Gambon you said it here last week the Weigl won’t improve us.

  55. Radio Raheem

    The Italian champions, whose sporting director Fabio Paratici admitted this week that Ramsey is on their radar, have already offered the 28-year-old a five-year contract worth €6.5m (£5.87m) a season in a bid to see of interest from several other European clubs including Bayern Munich and Paris Saint-Germain.

  56. azed


    I believe Weigl is better than Xhaka. Weigl can play through the press which Xhaka can’t and having players who can do that is key to Emery’s system.

  57. Marko

    Their identity and strategy is crystal clear, and they’ve hired as per that vision which has led them to where they are now.

    Agree. Just a shame that our vision for the club and identity was left in the hands of Wenger and while it was successful for the first half of his tenure it was a total failure in the second half. Can’t really blame Kroenke for that he’s an absentee owner who can just about tell the difference between a rock and a football. Blame him for leaving it in the hands someone who ended up being a disaster

  58. Marko

    Incredibly stupid of Emery if he’s insisting on keeping Ramsey until the end of the season considering he barely starts. Makes no sense whatsoever get in something for him. Not a swap player though we can do without another Mhiki situation taking in some player another club doesn’t want and on a big wage too. Also Khedira is broken

  59. Marko

    And he’s Mesut’s best friend

    Yeah avoid so we don’t need more sick days for Ozil. At least he’d have a partner for duo’s though

  60. Radio Raheem

    Makes sense to keep Aaron till the end of the season. He plays enough games and it’s not like we’ve a deep enough squad.

  61. Dream10

    Radio Raheem

    Would like Ramsey to stay, but I don’t think Emery will play him often after Mkhitaryan comes back from injury next month.

  62. leitrim gooner

    Arsenal should sign shane duffy
    Blocks: 19 (2nd in the league)
    Clearances: 2 (1st in the league)
    Headed clearances: 49 (1st in the league)

    and highest scoring defender in the league

  63. englandsbest

    Pedro, when are you gonna realise we are being taken for a ride by Kroenke?

    He has not put any money into his Club (unlike the owner of every other PL club) but it’s okay because he hasn’t taken any money out. How wrong can you get!

    It’s like buying a house, and somebody else pays off the mortgage.

    I’ll give you the figures, keeping them simple:

    The Emirates cost the club £390m, £260 of it borrowed in one form or another for around 25 years. The annual payback of the loan plus the interest on the loan is £30m, around £750m in total . And all of that is coming directly out of the Club’s revenue.

    Now I have question for you, Pedro: why did Kroenke borrow £500m to buy out Usmanov? After all he had full control of the Club. And interest on a short-term loan is high. And negotiating the deal is expensive, In three months, that £500m debt grows to £550m. And though property-rich (7th largest US landowner), he is (like all big-time property dealers) cash-poor.

    He hated the AGM? Even more, the obligation to publish accounts? Or maybe he has someone prepared to pay three billion for the Club? Is that what you are saying?

    I don’t think so. Much more likely he has transferred the debt to the Club (£550m now). You can do that kind of stuff down in Delaware.


  64. Redtruth

    Vieira lashes out at Arsenal
    Sean Ingle

    Mon 25 Jun 2001 10.58 BST First published on Mon 25 Jun 2001 10.58

    Patrick Vieira has launched an amazing attack on his Arsenal team-mates and Arsene Wenger’s summer signings – and made it clear that he wants to leave.

    In an interview with the Sun this morning, Vieira also dismissed Arsenal’s chances of success next season, claiming they wouldn’t even finish in the top five of the Premiership.

    He said: “People should know this is nothing to do with money. I need to leave because I want to win more trophies and I just cannot see that happening at Arsenal. Certainly not over the next few years, anyway.

    “Comparing Arsenal to the big clubs in Europe this season is going to be quite ridiculous,” he added.

    “I do not honestly see Arsenal finishing in the top five in the league – and you can forget the Champions League.”

    In recent weeks, Arsene Wenger has signed Everton striker Francis Jeffers and Rangers midfielder Giovanni van Bronckhorst in an attempt to strengthen his squad and persuade Vieira to stay. However, Vieira sees nothing to be excited about in their arrival.

    “When I told Arsene Wenger I was leaving, he said to me ‘I have £25m to spend on a few players’. My answer was ‘Obviously, Mr Wenger, you are not shopping in Harrods. That will only buy you one good player.’ Now I have been proved right.

    “Arsene Wenger has signed two ‘hopeful’ players who haven’t proved themselves in the Premiership yet. One of them is a boy of 20.

    “You can’t compete with the best clubs in Europe by making these kind of signings.

    “Arsene Wenger is an ambitious manager and he knows deep in his heart that he needs five world-class players to compete among the best in Europe.

    “With £25m in the kitty, Arsenal is not a great European club. With that budget they won’t even be among the top 20 clubs in Europe.”

    Fellow Frenchmen Robert Pires, Thierry Henry, Sylvain Wiltord and Gilles Grimandi have urged Vieira to remain at Highbury, but today he dismissed their pleas.

    He declared: “I have given 100 per cent to Arsenal over the last five years. They have only been there for a year or so.

    “They have won nothing with Arsenal. They should stay and try to win things for the club before they open their mouths.

    “My message to these players is that they have their lives and I have mine.”

  65. Danny

    and you can forget the Champions League
    Fuck him, that season we reached the final without him.

  66. Danny

    Makes sense to keep Aaron till the end of the season.
    True especially as Emery will go full out to win the Europa League.

  67. James.wood

    Absolutely it’s called siphoning the accounts.
    It’s like having a water leak your side of the meter
    your bill will get bigger the larger the leak gets over

  68. Nelson

    “Don’t believe everything you see on paper”

    Exactly. Agents, reports, etc. everyone wants to take advantages of the social media. As of yesterday, there was rumor that Arsenal will sign Keylor Navas for 14 m. Today, he signs a one-year extension with Madrid.

  69. MGooner

    We will not make the top 4 this year.

    We were told we were getting rid of Wenger as the club has loads of money and he was not spending it.

    Where is the money which was to be used to buy proper players to help us compete?

    Was it all lies?

    Shame 😉

  70. Emiratesstroller

    The Swiss Ramble story confirms the reality of Arsenal’s current status in the world of football.

    The club is run as a business with little or no real ambition or a willingness to take risk and go the extra mile.

    Realistically Arsenal cannot compete with the spending power of Man City who can outspend every other club in EPL by a factor of 2 or 3.

    Yet Arsenal could have bought annually at least one top liner player starting
    with Suarez from Liverpool had they had the guts to do so. They were outmanoeuvred by cleverer management than we had and the outcome highlighted why Arsenal are so often second best when it comes to buying players.

    Arsenal’s transfer policy over last decade has been simply been appalling whether it was buying or selling.

    The real question now is whether that situation can be reversed? My personal view is that it won’t because the policy makers are the owner and board and not the management. Leopards don’t change their spots.

    Emery may be a moderately competent manager. Time will tell if that is the
    case, but I see no evidence that he is “ambitious”. The most probable scenario is that he will acquiesce and accept a modest budget, because his paymasters will insist on it.

  71. MGooner

    @ englandsbest

    Pedro writes a blog daily, he knows Arsenal inside out and he knows the state of finances well if you look at some past posts.

    But you can question whether to put it politely, he is ‘consistenr’ in his analysis. 😉

  72. MGooner

    @ Emiratesstroller

    We missed the train when the shareholders sold to Kronke. We had the chance to sell to USmanov who is 5 (if not more) times richer than the Chelski owner.

    But at that time the fans did not want an Usmanov…it must be a Western European syndrome or something like that.

    Well you get what you deserve. We were lucky to wing a couple of PL and a few FA cups. If you think we will be winning another PL in the next 10 years, you are deluded.

  73. Wolves Gooner

    Sad times to be an arsenal fan. One club after another has overtaken us in the last 15 years. First Chelsea, then Citeh and now Liverpool. Who next, Wolves!?! The sad fact is the owner is not passionate about the club or taking us forward, we are simply an investment vehicle.. nothing more. The problem with our fans is we hang on to the memory of yesteryear and cling on to hope of returning to the top every now and again (game against spurs being a prime example). Wenger was a smokescreen, until Kronke is gone we will never progress. Unfortunately it might be too late now; if we made a collective KRONKE OUT effort when he didn’t have all the control he has now we could have done something about it. Voting with your feet and keeping your £ away from HIS club will be the only way to get OUR club back.

  74. Chukwudi

    Just want to believe that Unai will do big and great work for us. Time will tell anyway, good work as always Pedro!

  75. Champagne charlie


    It’s not as basic an argument as having an owner with mega-money, it primarily comes down to the leadership enforced top to bottom. Spurs are relative paupers but compete because they execute a carefully thought out strategy.

    We haven’t a clue how we’re going to achieve our objectives, no plan, no niche we’re looking to dominate.

    Atlético and Dortmund should provider the blueprint for us moving forward and, based on capital and financial capability, we should be the dominant force in that strategic category. Trouble is we’re going into transfer windows without a clue of the type of footballer we’re looking at, the profile isn’t clear because the philosophy isn’t clear.

  76. azed

    I’m going to stick out my neck and say its too early to blame Kronke. He just took control of the club and while he’s the only owner not have spent a penny of his own money, we were the only club that had two owners who weren’t on the same page.

    Now that he has full control, we get to see what he is made off and he gives half a fuck about the club.

  77. Champagne charlie


    He’s been majority shareholder for how long prior?

    Being sole owner means it all comes back to him (if you want to lean on the idea of ‘why would he invest without owning the lot’) now so is 70 mil the sum he mustered as a flex to finally owning the club entirely? He must think it’s 2002.

  78. Graham62

    The way I look at it, Stan Kroenke has to show far more of himself (not sure that came out right?),now that Arsene Wenger and Ivan Gazidis have left.

  79. Marc

    Can we stop this thing about the Spud’s having a master plan.

    1) They lucked out on the Poch – just look at the other managers Levy has employed.

    2) They’ve sold some players for a lot of money (it is something Levy is good at) and they’ve recruited some decent players so some praise but they haven’t won anything in a period that even Wenger won 2 FA Cup’s.

    3) The stadium move is an utter disaster. They’ve cocked up the project by trying to do it on the cheap, rather than pay a company to be in charge if managing the project they tried to do it themselves so no penalty clauses. Hence huge cost increases and delays.

    Let’s see how they fair once the Poch fuck’s off in the summer, they’ve also got quite a click of players who’s contracts are running down and who are refusing to resign – Erickson being the latest down to 18 months.

  80. MGooner

    @ Champagne charlie

    My point was not about strategy. Strategies are always about what different people believe will occur in the future. They are probabilities which may or may not materialise.

    My point is that we were made to believe the club had a ton of cash and a gaffer would not spend it because he is a miser. We even had banners such as ‘Spend some money” in the past.

    My point is that we we lied to by shameless people.

    As far as Kronke is concerned, it is a disguised LBO. The chap had even bought his shares on credit! To believe that he will be phased by a few fans not turning up is naive. He has bought the club and we are stuck with him.

    Why did Ivan leave? Because for 10 years he said he could not do this or that because of Wenger. When he had the reins, he decided to leave. Curious, right?

    We are surrounded by people who are here for their own personal interest. I have nothing against that as long as the interest of the club is aligned. Clearly, its not.

  81. MGooner

    @ Marc

    Agree, I do not see why people fantasize about the tiny totts. What have they won actually? A top 4 berth. I thought, we were tired of being there and that’s why we changed things.

  82. azed


    He’s been majority shareholder for less than a year. It’s obvious he was not going to call Gazidis and say here’s 200M do what you like with it but if the team (Raul and V) go to him with a plan that requires he invest, he might just invest.

    Stan is not stupid and he would know that success on the pitch would lead to financial success. He must know that the club isn’t making as much money due to a lack of Champions League.

  83. Graham62


    We were not “outmanoeuvred by cleverer management” in the Suarez debacle.

    Jesus, an eight year old could have worked out our strategic policy.

    ” Let’s be clever and offer Liverpool an extra £1. Go down the Winchester . Grab a nice cold pint. They’re bound to cave in”.

    Absolute tossers!

  84. MGooner

    @ Axed

    Well said. The charitable Stan will send you loads of money so you can compete with the lies of City $ co.

    But I still cannot get my head around the fact that we have no $$$ as we were told we were sitting on a warchest and money was not a problem.

  85. Redtruth


    Why Kroenke CANNOT invest big money

    Tuesday, January 1, 2019 at 7:38PM

    It’s an age-old debate we’ve heard ever since Stan Kroenke joined Arsenal as owner. Why doesn’t he put his hand in his pocket and invest? This is usually accompanied by complaints that the wrong owner was brought into the club, and that Alisha Usmanov would have spent Arsenal back to competitiveness.

    Although history has proved time and time again that spending money alone is not the route to competitiveness – Man Utd and Leicester being two sides of the counter coin, the plain fact is that ever since the Premier League’s Short Term Cost Controls (STCC) were enforced in 2013, Stan Kroenke would not have been able to invest super large sums of money in players even if he’d wanted to.

    Why? Because Arsenal’s wage bill has been spiralling out of control for years due to Wenger/Gazidis’ horrendous mismanagement, and no matter how much is/was available to spend on players, there has been no margin to substantially increase salaries through player acquisitions without breaking STCC rules.

    As explained, STCC (aka Financial Fair Play) was set up by the Premier League in 2013. It was implemented to prevent clubs spending the huge influx of TV money on player wages, thus increasing disparity throughout the Premier League. It also enabled clubs the opportunity to cap spending in a way that was fair and equitable across the board.

    Note that STCC rules only apply to clubs with a wage bill above £67m. Using their previous year’s wage bill as a baseline, those clubs are prohibited from raising wages by more than £7m per annum. However, there is one caveat. The rules are directly related to broadcasting revenue. Therefore, if a club can prove the wage increase is financed by its own revenues by way of increased commercial income and match day income, they can supplement the £7m limit.

    For clubs whose commercial revenues are experiencing substantial growth year-on-year, this will not make a huge difference. However, Arsenal trail miles behind their competitors. In 2016/17, for example, commercial profits only increased by £10.7m. Add that to Arsenal’s £7m limit and wages could only increase the following season by £17m per annum – less than Mesut Ozil’s annual salary.

    So what’s the solution to the restrictions that STCC gives a club like Arsenal? The solution is to either drastically cut the wage bill and/or massively increase commercial revenues and match day income. However, commercial revenues have ridden alongside Wenger’s decade-long underperformance and have therefore been poor under Gazidis’ stewardship and, obviously, there’s not much room to increase match day income substantially unless supporters want to pay astronomically higher prices.

    To make things worse, Arsenal’s cash flow has been hit now that the club no longer participates in the Champions League. Indeed, operating profits have tumbled 60% as a result of Arsenal’s failure to qualify for the competition, so not only is there less room to raise wages via commercial and match day income, but there’s less cash available to buy players.

    The logical and only step, therefore, is to reduce the wage bill. With a much reduced wage bill, Arsenal would have the manoeuvrability to spend surplus cash balances on new players without exceeding STCC rules. Unfortunately, however, this is not what the club has been doing in recent years. In fact, despite ever-decreasing returns on the pitch, Arsenal’s wage bill has only been rising.

    Take last season for example. You would think the club would have made huge ground in reducing the wage bill by releasing a number of high earners. We saw the departures of Walcott, Sanchez, Debuchy, Giroud, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Szczesny, Gabriel, Coquelin and Gibbs. Combined, this would have reduced the wage bill by around £655k p/wk.

    However, Arsenal signed Aubameyang, Lacazette and Kolasinac, and panicked when signing Mkhitaryan and increasing Ozil’s wage packet from £140k to £350k p/wk. Fag packet calculations demonstrate that Arsenal’s wage bill increased by approximately £100k p/wk or £5m per annum. While these figures are not exact, it’s obvious that for as long as the wage bill keeps rising, there is virtually no wage room for the club to substantially increase spending on players.

    It was the same story this summer. Perez, Akpom, Mertesacker, Cazorla and Wilshere departed, but this was offset by the signings of Sokratis, Torreira, Leno, Guendouzi and Lichtsteiner – so no substantial wage savings there, if any. That means Arsenal had no room to buy big name players with a big wage packet to match.

    STCC clearly illustrates how Kroenke is handcuffed. Not that he would invest in Arsenal out of his own pocket, but even if he wanted to, Arsenal simply cannot spend their way back to competitiveness.

    The club is where it is due to the unrelenting underperformance by the previous manager and CEO. Both on the pitch and off it, their decision-making has been disastrous. Wages have increased massively coinciding with ever-reducing returns both financially and on the field of play.

    This is what the new board and Emery have inherited and it will take a long time to rectify. They pretty much have to start from scratch and don’t have a lot to work with – little wonder Gazidis didn’t fancy hanging round to clear up his own incompetent mess.

    The starting point will be to drastically reduce Arsenal’s wage bill. The board and manager will also have to come up with creative solutions in terms of signing players. This has begun with the acquisition of Torreira, Guendouzi and Leno – not big signings, but players for the future with a normalised wage packet and resale value.

    Lichtsteiner and Sokratis were inexpensive short-term stop gaps designed to shore up the defence, and Arsenal will probably need more of that going forward to help get back on track. Armed with this information, it’s now a little more understandable why reports are surfacing that any January deals will be focused around cheap older players or loan deals.

    On the plus side, next summer, the new shirt sponsorship and kit deal cycle begins, alongside a separate sleeve sponsor, which alone is expected to bring in £20m. Adidas have replaced Puma as kit manufacturer, which will bring in another £20m pa. Arsenal will also have room to offload some more high earners to bring the wage bill down – notably Ramsey and contract expirees Welbeck, Cech, Monreal, Ospina and Jenkinson.

    Player sales, particularly Ozil, will make a big difference towards getting Arsenal back on the straight and narrow, not only bringing in cash but further room to increase wage bill expenditure. However, make no mistake STCC reduces Kroenke’s options to seriously reinvest in Arsenal. The rules have changed the investment landscape for wealthy clubs, and if you examine the activity of all of the big PL clubs in recent years, you can clearly see how STCC has affected their player recruitment policies.

    The clamour for Kroenke to reach deep into his pocket has to stop. It won’t happen and, more importantly, can’t happen. Liverpool and Spurs had to do it the hard way, and so will Arsenal. At least they provide grounds for optimism that competitiveness is within Arsenal’s reach with astute player purchases and good management. It also clearly demonstrates why Emery, or any manager, needs substantial time to get Arsenal back to where it needs to be. Anyone who believes there is a quick fix is either living in dreamland or denial.


  86. China1

    The thing is with that Suarez debacle tho, is didn’t they actually have a release clause that we met – and they just turned us down anyway

    If that’s the case Liverpool broke the law and it wasn’t our fault

    If they did have a 40m release clause then we had no obligation to pay any more than that to trigger it

    I think I read somewhere that their American owner was laughing at us because they turned it down and we walked away

    It’s hard to know exactly what the truth is, but on this single occasion arsenal’s Dumb behavior appears not to have been the bid price but that we let a club illegally turn down a bid that matches a release clause and walked away like a loser bitch instead of reporting them for breach of Suarez’s contract

  87. Marc


    I know I was at the Hull and Villa finals. I was referring to the period that the Poch as been at the Spud’s, just to make a fair comparison.

  88. Bamford10


    We have spent plenty of money; we have simply spent it poorly.

    The notion that our squad is as inadequate as it is on account of a lack of spending is ridiculous.

    It is how we have spent our money that is the problem.

    It may turn out that the owner will need to break with the self-sustaining model and spend some of his own money in order to get us out of the situation we’re in, but the idea that we are where we are on account of a lack of spending is simply false.

  89. Marc


    Thanks for posting that an interesting read. The only part I disagree with is re the new shirt deal I thought that was an extra £30 million per season.

  90. Marc


    I did a comment yesterday where I went through the squad and what players we could improve and or sell. I didn’t include the older players ie Monreal or Kos and I didn’t include Ramsey, Welbeck or Ozil. But by going through I came up with being able to generate circa £130 odd million and I was being conservative on what we could get.

    The biggest problem is the losses we would take on the likes of Xhaka, Mustafi etc.

  91. Bamford10


    “Atlético and Dortmund should provider the blueprint for us moving forward …”

    I partly agree with this, but this is kind of a funny statement coming from someone who thinks the self-sustaining model and owner are the problem, no?

    Do these two clubs have owners who are pouring money into their transfer spending? Maybe they do, but that is not my sense of how those two clubs operate.

  92. Marc


    Found the list I did. I’d be interested in your take on the players / values etc.

    Kolasinac – £10 – £15 million
    Chambers – £20 million
    Elneny – £10 – 15 million
    Mustafi – £20 – £25 million
    Xhaka – £25 million
    Iwobi – £25 million
    Mkhitaryan – £25 million (looking at Dortmund maybe taking him back)
    Ozil £?

  93. Bamford10


    Thanks for that Arsenal Truth piece. I didn’t know about those FFP wage bill restrictions. No wonder we’re not re-signing Ramsey at the wages he was asking for; one of their principle goals will be to reduce our wage bill. Insane that we are paying Ozil 350k/week; we must find a way to sell him.

  94. Jamie

    Marc –

    We’d be lucky to get 1/3 of those fees.

    Kola, due to his high wages – 5m
    Chambers, championship player but on lowish wages – 8m
    Elneny, relatively how wages, average player, 7m
    Mustafi, error prone, average player – 10m
    Xhaka, error prone, not suited to the pace of the PL – 10m
    Iwobi, average squad player, HG – 8m
    Mkhi, monster wages, average player – 5m
    Ozil, disgusting wage packet, even releasing him on a free would cost the club money.

    Total sales: 52m tops, in my opinion,

  95. Marc


    I was taking a swing at it although you do need to bear in mind that both Iwobi and Chambers carry the English premium. Middlesbrough offered us £20 million for Chambers the other summer. I’d expect some of the players to go abroad but any inter PL transfers would also be higher than expected. I also think you need to look at just how much some players go for.

  96. azed

    “Yep..really dreadful how kronke has allowed the wage bill to spiral out of control.”

    Yeah….What was he smoking during the meeting with players agents?

  97. Jamie

    Marc –

    I look at what our players typically go for. Our transfer activity, both ins and outs, have been farcical for over a decade.

    No one is paying us 20m for Chambers, not in this lifetime. His only saving grace is the fact that he isn’t on big money. Anything over 50k a week and he’d be as difficult to shift as Jenko.

    The truth is that we’ll have to take any offers for the players we need to get off the books. It’ll be a fire sale, rock-bottom prices. Freeing up Ozil and Mkhi’s wages is critical though. Kos, Nacho, Cech, Lich, Welb, Ramsey all being released in the summer too most likely.

  98. englandsbest

    I am of one of those (call us dreamers) who believe that Arsenal CAN be self-sustaining. As a matter of fact, the Club always has been self-sustaining. Run by the owners as a custodianship, no money was taken by them, nor any money invested by them.

    Today it’s different, the ownership is no longer a custodianship. IMO therein lies the major cause of the Club’s malfunction.

    To maintain, as some do, that the owner hardly matters is belied by the history of other great clubs in decline – such as Leeds, Glasgow Rangers, Newcastle, etc. It almost invariably turns out that a bad owner is the major culprit. It’s my belief that this applies now to Arsenal and Man U.

    Let’s remind ourselves that committed owners combined with managers like Chapman,, Graham, Wenger (before he became dictator), to produce periods of dominance, It ought to happen again – Arsenal have the revenue, the fanbase, the history.

    But it won’t happen with a bad owner.

  99. WengerEagle

    Think that we’re going to have a tough time of it shifting on those players unfortunately.

    Buying clubs aren’t stupid and will know that they are all surplus to requirements here stinking up the wage-bill, we’re going to get low-balled.

  100. Champagne charlie

    “He’s been majority shareholder for less than a year.“

    Not true, he’s been sole-owner for that period of time but he’s been majority shareholder since 2011 or so i’m pretty sure.

    “Can we stop this thing about the Spud’s having a master plan.“

    Nobody is claiming a master plan, they’re simply run better than us, have outlined a strategy to compete, and are competing. We aren’t, being bitter about that doesn’t change anything.

    “I partly agree with this, but this is kind of a funny statement coming from someone who thinks the self-sustaining model and owner are the problem, no?”

    Only if you want to reduce my take on Stan to another sound bite. I’ve outlined why he’s a waste of space, and the money isn’t the only bone of contention. Dortmund/Atlético have a clear strategy they pull toward as clubs, the respective owners adhere to this and facilitate the growth along these paths.

    That’s where Stan has failed for best part of a decade (irrespective of you washing your hands of it and pointing at Wenger). Any competent, owner with a finger on the pulse (key part), could’ve seen we were directionless and being supported by PL inflation vs superior management and sporting gain.

    Then comes the topic of money and investment, no other club on the list has had a stadium to pay for for one, so lets not always behave like its apples to apples. We could’ve certainly used the cash to prevent selling a star name each season, and stifle the negative effect of the move in that regard. Putting hands in the air and claiming ‘principles’ is a weak stance.

    Finally, when you consider our apparent ambitions are to compete at the highest level in Europe (PL titles and CL titles), then no investment is hard to justify. I’ll disagree that the money we’ve spent in recent seasons is enough to compete “because look at Dortmund”, they’re in a one-horse league; and whilst their model is a good example to take in terms of being pragmatic, it’s a stretch to suggest it will work in achieving the ultimate aims of winning a title.

    In fact I point to Spurs in this regard, because they’ve spent next to nothing and are where they are on good planning and smart transfers…however they’ve won nothing, and if you’re honest they lack the last step that City/Chelsea/Liverpool have all taken (through their ownerships spending). So that’s my take on Arsenal, we need to follow the lead of Spurs, Dortmund, Atlético etc but then there too comes a time where we need an owner to ‘get involved’ to bridge the final gap between really good and great.

    Sorry for the wordy post..


    Lovely to see directors who love their clubs and enjoy the football.
    Dehlia “LET BE AVIN YOU”.even though she was 3 parts.
    Look at the love at Leicester before the tragedy.
    Stay away directors seem to dodge their responsibilities
    That in it’s self takes away any warmth towards the man
    Come to the games Stan jump in the air when we score
    even if the syrup does fly off enjoy.

  102. Marko

    Do these two clubs have owners who are pouring money into their transfer spending? Maybe they do, but that is not my sense of how those two clubs operate.

    Dortmund buy smart and sell big. Atletico too to a certain degree though they also produce talented youngsters. Basically the types of things they do well they’ve been doing it for a long time. What we were doing for a long time obviously wasn’t working it’s obviously hamstrung us now and it’s going to take a while before we can adopt any kind of strategy that other clubs do. Basically time and patience is needed. Worth pointing out it’s very easy for certain people to put the blame squarely on silent Stan’s shoulders but the business model the self sustainability has always been here and the rot was here before he got involved. Could he have done more? Sure. Can he do more now? Yes and no. He’s probably done more than we’ve figured with the recent appointments being made we’ve finally got football people making football decisions but he probably can’t do too much by way of investments because of the way the rules are these days. So until we find a way around these rules as in lowering the wage bill or actually getting your monies worth from it or until we improve our commercial dealings we’re kinda stuck in limbo.

  103. Pierre

    “According to your theory, Ozil, Lacazette and Ramsey are being benched because of their reaction to being substituted, the question is why was Aubermayang given the same treatment?”

    I’m not sure who is the best at digging out old articles to solve a mystery ,you or Marko ….great detective work though even if the article is pointless.

    I can see you and Marko being the next Cagney and Lacey.

  104. azed


    you posted this
    “The one and only reason I can think of as to why he is not regularly starting is because he was not happy about being substituted a couple of times and Emery is making him (and the fans ) pay for it and regards it a way of showing his authority.Emery has behaved exactly the same towards Ramsey and ozil when they shook their head and shrugged their shoulders when being substituted…”

    The question is why isn’t Aubameyang being benched after he reacted angrily after being substituted?

  105. Redtruth

    Wenger’s failure to nurture yoing ‘talent’ exacerbated an already growing problem and widened the gulf in class between Arsenal and the top teams.

  106. Pierre

    You can always tell when people are getting desperate on le grove to prove a point .

    They start digging out old articles ….that Arsenal truth article has been posted on here at least 3 times ..
    Marko,Bamford Raptora,Azed ,Ruth and Joey are the prime suspects …maybe it’s because they are lacking intelligence and knowledge so they have to resort to using other people’s articles .

    And then of course there is Tonyd who gains all of his knowledge from the daily mail apparently and then regurgitates it to make himself look intelligent…

  107. alexanderhenry


    ‘Can’t really blame Kroenke for that he’s an absentee owner who can just about tell the difference between a rock and a football. Blame him for leaving it in the hands someone who ended up being a disaster.’

    Then you can blame Kroenke. His role as owner is to hire the right people and give them the resources to carry out their jobs as effectively as possible.
    He has failed on both counts.

  108. Marko

    Sure Alex his failure was leaving the club in the hands of Arsene Wenger and then Gazidis and for believing they could be trusted to do a good job. Plenty of people are guilty of that mistake.

  109. Charlie George

    This Kroenke bashing really is Ridiculous and misinformed.
    He is not the perfect owner -but he is certainly not the worse.

    Fans are rushing to conclusions and saying that he money obsessed and greedy..

    But , lets look at the evidence here,

    Did he want Sanchez to go for nothing?
    Does he want Ramsey to go for nothing?
    Does he want his Chief Executive to leave weeks after he appointed a coach who has no premier league experience and does not speak english?
    Does he want his Chief Executive to appoint an ex Barca guy to be our DOF- when he too, has no premier league experience?
    Does he want the overpaid Ozil in the club not producing goods?
    Does he want empty seats and no huge Champions league revenue?
    Does he want Pierre A to be cup tied in the Europa Cup (last season_ but lost Theo,Sanchez, Giroud (not cup tied)

    If he is so greedy- why he is paying the most HMRC tax?
    If he is so greedy – why not take the easy fortunes from Usmanov?
    But that is not to say – he is not blameless.

    His distant ownership model- is disastrous , in so many ways,
    And is miles too loyal to the muppets in charge – that have let us down.
    And he is too loyal to the incompetents, (Gazidas, Emery, Rene)

    I have a feeling – we have underestimated Stan’s long term determination to help Arsenal back to the upper echelons of English football.

    I hope he sacks the inexperienced Spanish Connection
    And employs people – who Know the nuanced English game.
    And we go back to basics- with a British coach – or a coach who gets British football and buy players of pace, power goals and determination.

    no Lichensteiners, Xhakas, Mustafis, Ozils, Perezs, banega types.
    But Maguires, Zahas, Morrisons, Holdings, Ramseys,
    Off course , scattered with similar minded overseas stars.( Torreira, PPA, Bellerin)

    kroenke wants a happy and successful Arsenal as much as we do.
    the man is an incredibly successful businessman.
    After all -Are we saying – he wants a failing business?
    he wants to be a loser?
    he wants grief?