Well good f*cking morning to you all!
2 days until I leave for sunny England. Land of the free. Well, nearly. I am hugely excited to head back home to reacquaint myself with that Essex accent I try so hard all year to suppress, get knee deep in Marmite, proper bacon and highly offensive ‘banter.’ Things are so bad in New York these days, a woman apologised to me the other day for saying ‘they didn’t have the balls.’
IT IS OK MY BALLS ARE NOT UPSET.
Right, what are we going to talk about today?
We could talk about SPOTY? Or we could decide that people who shriek about that need to grow the fuck up. It’s a popularity contest. Who cares?
We could talk about Mesut Ozil? NO. We should talk about the German Netflix show called Dogs of Berlin.
This show is about a German footballer of Turkish descent that’s murdered.
GERMAN ENTERTAINMENT FOLK, ARE YOU BLOODY KIDDING ME?
Now, I haven’t seen it, but look, we live in a culture of outrage. If my balls can get offended, then so can I over this abomination. Likely just a rough set of coincidences, but my word, not a good look after the carry-on over the World Cup.
Anyway, the German is being linked to United. Now, not that I’d be fussed if we could do a deal, as long as it doesn’t involve a player. We’ve had WELBZ, Silvestre and Mikhi off them. I quite liked Bailly from his Spain days, but he’s not cutting it in a terrible side, I’m not sure we should be taking a chance. That said, give me him over Cahill or Pepe.
Arsenal face BATE in the next round of the Europa League. Round of bloody 32. How boring. Even worse, the kick-off times are 5.55pm. That means people have to leave work extra early. What a pain in the backside. Additionally, City and Southampton move from Saturday’s to Sunday’s and our Bournemouth game moves from a Tuesday to a Wednesday. Europa is the absolute pits for weekend games. I really miss 3pm kick-offs on a Saturday.
What else could we talk about? How about the story that Rabiot is going to be sold by PSG this January because he won’t sign a new deal. Rumours are Spurs are in for him, as well as Juventus. No chance we’ll be in for a player Emery insisted wasn’t good enough to be a box to box midfielder, but it’s nice to dream of us picking up sexy deals like that.
Finally, I really love The Arsenal Community team. LOOK AT THAT KIDS HAPPY FACE. So damn cute.
☺️🎅@PetrCech was among the players that visited @WhitHealth last week#AFCGivingTogether 🔴 pic.twitter.com/RnS1mxzMHd
— TheArsenalFoundation (@AFC_Foundation) December 17, 2018
Bamford “and this allowed Zidane to dominate matches, like the 98 final against Brazil, in ways that Messi can’t.” Are you for real? Have you seen Messi play? Messi not dominating matches? I respectfully ask you to withdraw the statement. For every game that ZZ “single-handedly” influenced, you can probably find 10 that Messi did. Bruh please stop. It’s not even close. “Though he was short, Maradona had immense strength and power in his legs and there was a force to his dribbling and his play that Messi doesn’t possess, IMO.” Please don’t equate bulk with strength. Messi is strong.… Read more »
Ruth
And you hold the record foe highlighting pointless records…
@ Country boy
Bamford puts a lot of stock in height and athleticism, hence the Benteke debacle, he is weird that way.
Also its a bit rich coming from you when you can’t follow a simple conversation mate
What exactly am I not following? I said that we build our defence around him and we did and that we allowed other defenders better attainable defenders go to other clubs without trying for them and that’s cost us over the years. Having Laurent Koscielny as our best CB has cost us over the years. Is any of that untrue?
Countryboy
Wouldn’t expect anything other than waffle from bamford…
“Having Laurent Koscielny as our best CB has cost us over the years”
Absolutely hit the nail on the head.
Our standards dropped so far, to the point where fans salivate over players that wouldve been lucky to make the bench 10 years earlier.
When I see people on here saying “I like Kolasinac, we dont need to replace him” – you wonder if they even watched Arsenal during the 5 title winning teams between 1988 and 2004.
The League Cup Final epitomises Koscielny’s ineptness
“Though he was short, Maradona had immense strength and power in his legs and there was a force to his dribbling and his play that Messi doesn’t possess, IMO.”
To be fair this is an incredibly stupid thing to say considering for years teams and defenders have tried everything literally everything to try and stop Messi and he just kept on going. Been kicked silly for years and when you consider that he’s barely had any long term injuries he’s unbelievably strong and resilient
Gambon, I don’t think Martial works for us IMO. He rarely takes people in nowadays. While he has been scoring goals, I think those goals cover up a deficiency that can not be ignored for a winger. It’s like Ramsey. He is unable to dictate the pace of a game in midfield and impose himself in midfield but he covers it up with goals. What happens when the goals don’t come. Remember what was reported about Nelson at Hoffenheim. You might be scoring now but if the goals don’t come, are you still going to be contributing. In my view,… Read more »
*on
Messi has yet to score a goal in the knockout stages in 4 World Cups…a shameful record
Countryboy
I agree, we need players that can beat their opponents 1vs1, we need that across the team.
We also need 2 x AMs, not just one.
If we sign one, we still have either Iwobi or Mykhitaryan looking inept on the other wing.
I dont think we will be signing anyone off of UTD anyway, so its probably irrelevant.
Marko
Bollox..The modern game gives players protection that players of yesteryear could only dream of..
“We also need 2 x AMs, not just one.If we sign one, we still have either Iwobi or Mykhitaryan looking inept on the other wing.”
Are you classifying wingers as AMs? or would you rather play an AM on the wingers ala Pires?
I’d rather we get two wingers who hug the touch lines but can come inside if needed like Sane.
Marko I think said it right about Kos Back in the day, he was great and was the standard to which we judged defenders. None of us had problem with him when he was doing a good job Now he is older and had a shit game, so he is shit. I think that is a bit knee jerk. In the meantime, other teams have acquired great defenders. We need to re set our bar, to what these teams have. VVD, and others are great and should be what we strive for when producing or buying defenders. Kos will be… Read more »
It’s PEPE we need.
The ex Liverpool keeper …Reina
azed
Id be surprised if we signed line hugging wingers.
Rightly or wrongly, Emery seems to want the full backs providing width.
I think we will be after Pepe type players. Inverted wide players who play in the half space.
I do wonder if our appalling defensive record has anything to do with the way our full backs are used.
The thing is, with better wide players, maybe our full backs wont have to play so advanced.
Sometimes buying better attackers strengthens the defence, and vice versa.
“Maybe you’re not the best person to comment on the state of Arsenal’s defenders given how you thought tactics and instructions and a sprinkle of good fortune would be enough to address an obvious weakness that’s existed for years.“ Unlike you to waffle absolute shit to fabricate a POV you can then challenge. I said we had good enough players to not be as shit as we were being, and that actually having a defensive approach would yield more improvement than simply shoving an expensive new defender into the same shit show. Other than that though you were bang on….… Read more »
Gambon Good post. I also wonder if our formation or tactics leads to us having a terrible defense record Bell and Kos get right up to the box and dare say put in an equal amount of crosses as the LM and RM If they dont have to constantly bomb forward it might help. Our 3 in the back has had its pros and cons. Against strong forwards and pacy ones- also ones that are good at headers seems to cause us issues. Our back 3 is slow, which is also part of the issue. We need height. Hopefully we… Read more »
The thing is, with better wide players, maybe our full backs wont have to play so advanced. I believe this to be partly the case but mostly it’s the particular players involved. Take Monreal for example he gets forward but absolutely gets back while Kolasinac on the other hand gets caught out so much going forward. Bellerin too which is why in the summer when we were linked with Klostermann for example I was all on board because how we play we need our full backs to be better defensively than offensively and they need to be defenders first and… Read more »
“Marko I think said it right about Kos
Back in the day, he was great and was the standard to which we judged defenders.
None of us had problem with him when he was doing a good job Now he is older and had a shit game, so he is shit. I think that is a bit knee jerk.”
Back in the day like the 2011 League Cup Final.you jerk.
“Rightly or wrongly, Emery seems to want the full backs providing width.”
Gambon
I would say this is down to the players we have at the moment because we are lacking seriously in that department.
Our defence would be strengthened by buying better attackers because lower teams would be wary of attacking us. We would also control the game more if we had better players in the attacking 3rd.
A Bernado Silva and Sane in place of Mhki and Iwobi makes us far more dangerous and would keep lower bottom teams honest.
I said we had good enough players to not be as shit as we were being, and that actually having a defensive approach would yield more improvement than simply shoving an expensive new defender into the same shit show. Exactly and how’d that work out? A shit defender is a shit one no matter what system you put them in. We need better CB’s and you argued for a better system and tactics and that’s your POV and it continues to be wrong. I dunno why some people are so adverse to spending money and signings it’s weird. How about… Read more »
Redshit
Resident whiner.
He pulls away as Scezesny was coming for the ball… 50/50 for that one. He kicks the ball and takes Sczensys head off. Chances are that Sczenscy called for the ball anyhow.
Any others times Kos made you cry?
Let it out mate
https://youtu.be/T_L4WN0PzeY
Koscielny has cost Arsenal countless games with his brainfart moments.
Yea our full backs get up to join the attack, that’s what modern full backs do.
We can blame that for our defensive weakness if we want to bury our head in the sand.
The first goal on Sunday, Bellerin was standing there facing the opposite full back, he made no attempt to stop the cross or close the angle for the cross, two defenders were in the box marking a single striker….no one was caught out by the burden of joining the attack, they were just switched off
Gambon
In three full league seasons as manager of Sevilla, his.teams conceded 52, 45 and 50.goals respectively.
In four full league seasons as manager of Valencia, his teams.conceded 54, 40, 44 and.44 respectively.
His PSG stats were excellent.
Don’t have the context of players bought.and.sold during his tenure in Spain, but Emery’s sides conceded well over a goal per match.
“Koscielny has cost Arsenal countless games with his brainfart moments.”
Don’t know about the number of games… but you can clearly blame him for our defeat vs Southampton.
anyone can see Kos pull out of the clearance as Sczesny is calling for the ball. That isnt Kos fault- Szec was behind him- he was the one who fucked that up
Im not even a Kos fan, but come on
“Exactly and how’d that work out? A shit defender is a shit one no matter what system you put them in. We need better CB’s and you argued for a better system and tactics and that’s your POV and it continues to be wrong. I dunno why some people are so adverse to spending money and signings it’s weird. How about we try and sign better players and see if that works okay“ Really wish you’d stop attempting to fill in the blanks on what people write here, it’s boring to have to continually redress what you’d say because you… Read more »
I said this before and I will say it again. We could’ve had 4 best defenders in the world in our squad and we would’ve still conceded a lot of goals. The fact is Arsene played Arteta, Ramsey, Wilshere, Santi and Xhaka in our CM. None of them are considered as physical players and in a way they were in the team because of offensive contribution. The only exceptions were Le Coq and Flamini, who were shite if we’re being honest. This line up screams that we don’t give a fuck about our defense because we’re better than you and… Read more »
Don’t have the context of players bought.and.sold during his tenure in Spain, but Emery’s sides conceded well over a goal per match
No doubt he’s not a coach who does defences which is exactly why it’s signings that will improve the defence.
Look at us this season, Sokratis, Torreira, Leno are new faces and we’re terrible defensively…So your “how’d that work out” jibe is pretty hilarious given we’ve done precisely what YOU ask and are just as shit as before. More needs to be done you daft pillock. You think 29 year old Sokratis for 15 million is enough to improve our defence? A 34 year old back up RB perhaps? More needs to be done so no we haven’t done precisely what I asked. As I’ve said before we will not improve defensively until we get rid of and upgrade on… Read more »
Countrybiy
Yeah, you’ve missed my point. As have Marko and Pierre. This is one of the more frustrating things about this place. Not disagreement — which is obviously fine — but misunderstandings, some of which are deliberate.
Not a big deal. Cheers.
I think we can all agree that until we have a decent defence then we will won’t challenge for the PL. One TW was not enough to deal with it. Difficulty is that pretty much every player in our defence is below the necessary standard. Kos was top quality whatever Ruth and others might say; Monreal has been more than competent but they are both ageing. Mustafi will need to be upgraded. By next August if they have been successfully replaced, I think we’ll see a real improvement. I think three defender changes are as much as we can expect… Read more »
Marko
Which is my origiinal point exactly in response to your ridiculous assessment.
We’ve brought in Leno, Sokratis, and Torreira but you’re saying we need to replace Mustafi, Bellerin, and Xhaka still to yield improvement. So just the 6 first XI players needed replacing for Marko’s “plan” to take effect. hahaha
Meanwhile it’s heresy to suggest a more pragmatic defensive approach would yield a better foundation for us to build from. Gotcha.
This is one of the more frustrating things about this place. Not disagreement — which is obviously fine — but misunderstandings, some of which are deliberate.
What was misunderstood exactly? It’s really hard to pinpoint if you’re misunderstood or just plain wrong a lot of the time.
Meanwhile it’s heresy to suggest a more pragmatic defensive approach would yield a better foundation for us to build from If you’ve still got the same shit error prone players yes. What part of shit is shit don’t you get. You can put a good player like Torreira beside an average player like Xhaka and you can put a decent enough defender like Sokratis alongside Mustafi but if these players still make mistakes and are still by and large not good enough you’re still going to have problems. Just imagine for a second if you would better players than some… Read more »
Mourinho sacked
* Does hooah a la Al Pacino * ☺️☺️
Ah well was good while it lasted, the banter days at OT are on hold boys.
What big club touches Mourinho now after his last three years?
Reckon he gets a NT gig.
Not that Mourinho is anything more than a busted flush these days anyway, still can’t help but feel massive severance pay in his contracts further diminish his desire to succeed. If you are going to get paid 22M for failure why spend your energy trying to make things work.
The disrespect that Cristiano Ronaldo gets in the all-time greats discussions is absurd. May not be an artist like ZZ was but as far as productivity as a player goes, he’s levels above Zidane, not even remotely close. He’s won the Champions League FIVE times ffs, it took Maldini a quarter of a century of playing to hit that number. Zidane had a great career but he won 3 league titles and 1 CL trophy at club level, never won a domestic Cup either. Whereas Ronaldo has 5 league titles, 5 CL titles being the top scorer in every single… Read more »
TR7
Ha you can’t help but feel that after drawing PSG that the board accelerated their decision on Mourinho, drawing Porto may have given him another couple of months but they’re going to be battered by that PSG frontline.
The amount of money United have just flushed down the toilet over the past few years.
Buying Fred and sacking Mourinho was more than out entire summer spend.
Makes you worry though when Pochettino goes over there and is backed with £250 Million to spend.
It is nice to see United fans talking about Arsenal as to how to get a managerial transition right.
Well in my view CR7 should not get even a passing reference in any all time great debate. He is already over-hyped enough , not to mention numerous undeserved Ballon D’or trophies.
CA
He’s had many lost the plot moments but after getting pasted by Liverpool and bemoaning the fact that he’s working with a group of players that are athletically inferior to them was the nail in the coffin, he’s spent a ridiculous amount of money since his appointment and United are worse now than they were under LVG.
TR7
Absolutely ridiculous assertion and you’re normally spot-on with your comments.
You seem to dislike Ronaldo personally and it distorts your POV when talking about his footballing ability.
Just look at the state of Real Madrid this season, they’re breaking multiple records that only date back prior to 2009, when a certain somebody was signed.
He’s absolutely deserved 3 of his 5 Ballon D’ors and it’s not debatable really, 2008/2014/2017.
2013 and 2016 are up for debate but he was right there in 2013, 2016 I’ll give you should have been Messi.
“Zidane had a great career but he won 3 league titles and 1 CL trophy at club level, never won a domestic Cup either.”
This post shows that you miss the point when talking about great players. Ronaldo El Phenomenon Da Lima did not win the champions league but he’s far better than any player that’s ever won the champions league not named Messi.
Fake Ronaldo is a great scorer and that’s it.
Zidane was a Maestro,
The original Ronaldo was a phenomenon
Messi is a god.
WE
You can count the number of games Ronaldo has wowed without scoring with your fingers.
Messi, Zidane, Ronaldo(the first and 2nd) would dominate games without their names showing up on any stat field.
azed
Just a goalscorer? Lol you make out like he’s Higuain.
Anybody that watched him at United and for most of his RM career could see that he was a phenom.
Ronaldo Lima missed 3.5 seasons of football in his prime and never came back the same player because his knees were destroyed, also waned off badly in his late 20’s, hardly comparable to ZZ who played every season.
How can you not show Ronaldo more respect when he’s won 5 CL’s? So many great players never even win 1.
azed
Lol he’s averaged a goal a game for most of his career so what is your point there exactly?
Not to mention that it’s nonsense.
Messi is a tier above but C Ronaldo is right there after when you talk about the modern era.
Ronaldo is one of the all time greats, absolute monster physically and a top class footballing talent.
The personality of a team and very rarely has he sulked or quit on people/a team/an entire country.
WE
“How can you not show Ronaldo more respect when he’s won 5 CL’s? So many great players never even win 1.”
Because Benzema has also won 4CL’s and he won’t go down as a great player. It takes a team and luck to win a trophy so judging great players by only trophies won is not right.
Claudio won the league with Leicester city while Pochetino has won nada with the spuds but Poch is a better manager irrespective of the trophy buy Claudio.
TR7December 18, 2018 19:27:34
Well in my view CR7 should not get even a passing reference in any all time great debate. He is already over-hyped enough , not to mention numerous undeserved Ballon D’or trophies.
___________
So disrespectful really.
@Azed
“Fake Ronaldo is a great scorer and that’s it.”
So embarrassingly disingenuous.
Marko
You still waffling?
We signed 3 defensive starters this past summer and we’re no better. Your ‘better players needed’ argument falls flat on itself with that alone. Claiming we actually need 6 better players to yield an improvement shows how one-dimensional your POV is.
WE
I genuinely believe CR7 is not a special player. A prolific goalscorer for sure and a true modern great but not an all time great.
An all time great player should be a magical player, a player who can not be described just in numbers, a player who can hypnotize and dazzle people with sublime skills. CR7 does not fit the bill for me and it has little to do with my dislike for him.
“An all time great player should be a magical player, a player who can not be described just in numbers, a player who can hypnotize and dazzle people with sublime skills. CR7 does not fit the bill for me and it has little to do with my dislike for him.”
Well said TR7
I dare WengerEagle and Steve to find 3 games in the last 5 years were Ronaldo was so awesome without scoring.
Ronaldo is another dud who has failed to score a single goal in the knockout stages in 4 World Cups….so much for his scoring prowess lol
azed Ronaldo scored 8 goals for United in the winning campaign including a great goal in the Final, 17 goals in 2013/14 for RM including a brace vs Bayern in the SF at the Allianz, 16 in 2015/16, basically won them it single-handedly in 2017 when he scored 10 goals in 5 matches from the QF to the Final including hat-ricks vs Bayern and Atletico Madrid and he was by far the top scorer last season with 15 in the CL. Besides last season Benzema’s only crucial ko goal in that run was the SF winner vs Bayern in 2014.… Read more »
TR7 I’m not sure there’s a metric you can name to decide an all-time great that Cristiano isn’t, or maybe more accurately wasn’t, capable of. At United the tactic was simply give him the ball and he’ll do the rest, fast, skilful as anyone in the world, and devastating. That devastation grew and grew to a point where his output surpassed the games he players. That’s insane at the very highest level. Salah scores 40 goals and it’s earth shattering, but Cristiano and Messi have done that for a decade straight. He’s different gravy mate and idk how you can… Read more »
TR7
That’s asinine, so by your criteria Riquelme was a better all-time great than Ronaldo then?
If we are talking about artistry than it’s worth noting that Messi isn’t fit to tie Ronaldinho’s laces, so Ronny is the GOAT. Neymar also shits all over Messi by that criteria.
Messi and Ronaldo have dominated club level for over a decade with their goal/assist count and trophy haul and that determines the greatness of a player, not how attractive they were to watch.
Ronaldo is another dud who has failed to score a single goal in the knockout stages in 4 World Cups….so much for his scoring prowess lol….
‘I dare WengerEagle and Steve to find 3 games in the last 5 years were Ronaldo was so awesome without scoring.’
You don’t even need to look at Real Madrid, he’s already done this for Juventus.
Got 3 assists in the 3-1 win over Napoli where he was MOTM.
Stupid criteria because he scored for more often than not, you can pick apart Messi’s goal-less matches too as you could any forward.
The ball is still round in International matches, so what excuse do Messi and Ronaldo have for being shit…
Hoping we will flush out a few dead wood players
Chambers could go Fulham if he keeps impressing as cm
Jenkinson will run down his contract.
Elnenny could be sold but for around 5 / 8 m
Other than than don’t expect much
‘What players are better that qualify as all-time greats?’
Only Messi in the last 25 odd years.
Ronaldo9 had a higher peak ability but unfortunately injuries robbed him of a spot up there as his career doesn’t compare in terms of consistency and trophy count.
Messi and Ronaldo’s goal stats are distorted because they are guaranteed Champions league football every season whereas in the past they would have missed out 2 or 3 seasons at a time.
Charlie If we talk.about last 20 years, Messi and.Zidane qualify as all.time greats for me. As.for CR7, his ability in close spaces is rather limited especially against quality defense. I am not talking about those fancy and most often useless step overs but real ability to run with the ball in crowded opposition box. That’s why he often resorts to taking shots from just outside the box. People talk about his free kick ability and long range shots but his percentage of wasteful shots from outside the box is very high. All great players (in my book that is )… Read more »
Sorry you’re feeling so down Red, hope things turn around for you ( I’m not being sarcastic).
Messi can win 10 La Liga’s and he’d still be below the true greats because he hasn’t proved his worth on the World stage
TR7 I see what you’re saying, I disagree though and I think Cristiano is getting a harsh revision of his earlier days for sure. He developed into this behemoth goal/assist machine but he was electric at United and the early part of Madrid. I have serious love for him inas much as I appreciate the dedication to being the bets he could be. He’s admirable for that. Personally I think Ronaldinho hit a height for about 2 years that no other footballer has touched in history. He didn’t have the longevity, or the modern porpensity to pile up the numbers,… Read more »
Fuck Ronaldinho, he’s just a Circus act…lol
‘If we are talking about artistry than it’s worth noting that Messi isn’t fit to tie Ronaldinho’s laces, so Ronny is the GOAT. Neymar also shits all over Messi by that criteria’
Come on WE ! Neymar has nothing on Messi, absolutely nothing. I generally concur with your analysis on most things football but you grossly oversell Neymar.
As for Ronaldinho and Messi conversation, I absolutely loved the goofy Brazilian but the real beauty of Messi lies in him being so accurate and precise despite being full of flair.
RedTruth
Ospina is the only true all time great still playing.
TR7
Neymar is an outrageously gifted player, most inventive player we’ve seen since Ronaldinho. His ability is grossly undersold if anything, producing more jaw-dropping pieces of skill than anyone in the game.
Messi is levels ahead in terms of productivity and honours but you discount those exact feathers in Ronaldo’s cap which is the part I find unfair.
I’ve never rated fat Ronaldo…He was more functional than natural, someone who really worked hard on his game in training…
CC
In terms of entertainment I agree with you, Ronaldinho is the most skillful player I have ever seen by a distance.
But the most important part of the game is sticking the ball in the back of the net so he still doesn’t come close to Messi as a player, even during his peak seasons.
Messi’s best ever season tally nearly triples Ronny’s.
Neymar’s only quality is rolling around on the floor like a girl..
TR7 Why do you rate ZZ so highly in terms of all-time greats? His club career doesn’t hold a candle to Messi’s, doesn’t deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence and I say this as a huge admirer of ZZ. He couldn’t have been THAT dominant given his underwhelming club trophy haul and he wasn’t exactly playing with cans like aTotti, he played for a Juventus side that won the CL the season before he joined and joined the Galactico Real Madrid side that won 2 CL trophies in the 3 years previous. 1 La Liga in 5 seasons… Read more »
Countryboy Just to explain what I meant by your having misunderstood me. First, for example, you wrote: “Are you for real? Have you seen Messi play? Messi not dominating matches?” Except that I never claimed that Messi doesn’t dominate matches. Such a claim would obviously be absurd, as he has dominated a million matches, many of which I have watched. My point was that Zidane’s relative size, strength and power allowed him to dominate CERTAIN MATCHES and in CERTAIN WAYS that Messi’s more diminutive frame does not allow him to. That’s a different claim. Secondly, you wrote: “Please don’t equate… Read more »
Speaking of dominance, has Messi ever dominated a World Cup tournament..nah didn”t think so.
Weagle Not for me, you can surmise the game as being about the ball being put in the net but that’s too simplistic for me in this context. Can a defender never be GOAT as a result? For me it’s about players that exert an influence in games in ways others can only dream. Ronaldinho is best in this department, for the impact he made but also the style he did it with. Unrivalled skill and genius in my eyes, I love Messi but Ronaldinho was just inasanity. Messi is sheer brilliance, but you know what he’s going to do… Read more »
WE I do not consider number of trophies won by a player as one of the yardsticks to judge a player. Cesc Fabregas was not half as good when he was winning trophies at Chelsea or even at Barca compared to what he was during Arsenal days. As for Zidane, bar Messi nobody comes even close to him in terms of vision and touch. He was a brilliant dribbler.and like Messi he was unstoppable when he was in mood. He was a.leader on the pitch and could raise the standard of all the players around.him something that even Messi is… Read more »
People talk as if Ronaldo and Messi played for lower league sides and transformed them into Champions league titans…No, the reality is they play for one of the two biggest clubs in the World..
CC Amazing thing about Messi is that he’s far from just a great goalscorer though, he’s also been a top 3 passer/chance creator in world football throughout his career not to mention he’s the best dribbler we’ve ever seen. He exerts a bigger influence than Ronaldinho ever did. He was the best player in two treble-winning campaigns in seasons where Barcelona completely dominated the football calendar. It basically took two Herculean efforts/a lot of luck from Inter Milan and Chelsea to prevent Messi leading Barcelona to 4 CL titles in a row, all-time great defensive performances that will be talked… Read more »
One correction in the post above – Andres Iniesta also had a great vision and touch. So yes both Messi and Iniesta , talking only about post Maradona era.players here.
WengerEagle “Neymar is an outrageously gifted player, the most inventive player we’ve seen since Ronaldinho. His ability is …” Yeah, Neymar is super talented. I don’t know if he’s quite as talented as your breathless description above, but he is very talented. No question. His problem, though, is that he lacks character. He dives a lot, he whines a lot, and I’m not convinced he has the steel, or the will-to-win, or the work-ethic that a Messi or a Ronaldo or a Zidane or a Maradona have or had. Your boy is super talented, but he lacks character, and as… Read more »
TR7
Well he wasn’t in the mood all too often if that was the case. As I said, he didn’t dominate at club level and he wasn’t exactly competing with an unbelievable Barcelona side as Ronaldo has been, Valencia won La Liga twice in that timeframe.
Not sure how you can discount the ultimate yardstick which is success on the pitch.
The Fabregas comparison is a faulty one as he was the main guy at Arsenal and a utility player at Barcelona, at Chelsea in 14/15 he was fantastic and was lauded by many.
TR7
Well said re Zidane.
Bamford
Reasonable opinion there, don’t disagree really. Talent/ability is great but how many amazingly talented players have we seen not fulfill all of their talent in terms of success.
Worth noting though that at 26 he’s already won the Copa Liberdotres which is the most prestigious trophy in South American football, the CL treble in 14/15 and the double in 15/16.
Olympics and Confed Cup for Brazil too.
Not too shabby.
Let’s not forget, Spanish sport is rife with drugs with football and cycling being at the forefront especially Barcelona.
Red
So who makes your all time great list. Needless to say Maradona and Romario make the cut. Who else ?
So much interesting comments on here….
Wenger eagle….
Did you remember how Ramos and bale won the cl for Ronaldo in 2014…???
Did you remember how bale won the cl for Ronaldo in 2018??¿
Did you remember how the 2016 finals went to the penalties ????
Ronaldo, is a modern great but not an all time great…..
Ronaldo is nothing without goals…..
But goals are great…
“Olympics and Confed Cup for Brazil too.”
Lol lol lol lol lol lol
What a goal Leicester just scored there..
Bamford You follow the NBA, the entire crux of MJ > LBJ is that he won 6 rings to Bron’s 3 rings. Bron exceeds MJ in terms of longevity, he’ll surpass him in basically every career stat by the time he retires, he’s already been to two more Finals than MJ did, beat the best basketball team ever assembled in the 2015/16 Warriors leading the Cavs to the only 3-1 comeback ever achieved in the Finals, which I’d argue is the greatest scalp ever. Why then will he never be considered better than MJ by the majority? One word: rings.… Read more »
‘Who else ?’
David Ospina, Ospina David, Lucas Moura.