Dreamers vs the Nerds. Who will win out?

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In a world where nerds rule and dreamers pay their respects, an unlikely hero has emerged.

His name is Unai Emery.

A man who defied the xG gods.

A man who outscored expectations.

A man who racked up points against all odds.

But could it last?

That’s the damn question.

This is the biggest divide in football society since the age debate of 28 or 29. This is bigger than Denilson. This is bigger than ‘what if Eduardo hadn’t.’

This confusing opener to a blog is driven by the reality that Arsenal are playing above their expected points total at the moment, and it’s leading the worlds premier stats nerds to question the viability of our standing right now.

All of that brings up a number of questions that need to be answered. One of them, and the one I am going to give a bit more information on today, is: does Unai Emery have a track record of his teams beating xG?

This is the operating narrative of managers like Sean Dyche or Lucien Favre – that they have special tactical things that they do that are not captured in the model. I have been asked if Emery also has this profile.

This is raw passion versus data. But, as I’ve lightly been saying since the start of the season, if you’re honest with yourself, we’ve been a touch pony for most of our games, and it’ll bite us in the backside at some point.

Alternatively, you could be of the school of thought where you think that beating out xG early on the season is obviously lucky, but as the matches get eaten up, Emery’s ideas will settle and we’ll start defending better and create far more chances.

For now, that’s how I’m dealing with a porous defence and an attack that’s been incredibly clinical this season.

It’s all part of the master plan!

Realistically, we’ll know by the time the Liverpool game comes around. I’d love the think Pep G showed us the way there, but I’m not sure he did. Wenger always struggled with heavy metal football, so it’ll be interesting to see how Emery is strategising that game. Slowing the game down, forcing Liverpool to play at a slower pace sounds like a good way in. Obviously easier said than done, but for once, we have a coach more than capable of dropping a semi-decent plan.

There were some positive quotes from Reiss Nelson in the press. He scored for England vs Andorra and has his sights set on a possible early return to Arsenal this January. I still think that’s an aggressive timeline. He should take the Sancho route and do a couple of seasons away from Arsenal, build up his fitness, his sharpness and confidence so when he’s thrown in the deep end at Arsenal, he has the tools to deal with the challenge.

It’s actually a pretty fruitful time for Arsenal youth. There are some genuinely exciting talents breaking into consideration at the club, now there’s a manager that can train the intellectual side of their brains. To make it under Arsene, you had to be exceptionally gifted because you weren’t getting a tactical education. I can’t wait to see where Willock, Smith Row, AMN and Neslon take their game. Hopefully, Project British Youth wasn’t a failure, it just took a bit of a delay!

Right, that’s me done for today. My US VISA was renewed in Paris today, so I’m off to scout Berlin. I’ll report back with my findings tomorrow.

BIG LOVE x

P.S. I haven’t spend a huge amount of time in Paris, but damn, what a fucking dreamy place.

190 Responses to “Dreamers vs the Nerds. Who will win out?”

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  1. Marko

    Honestly fuck Aaron Ramsey. Trying to vilify the club and then in a seemingly spiteful move says he won’t move in January so we’ll get nothing for him. Not a single mention of the fact that he’s asking for extortionate amount in wages and we stuck by him through all those injuries. Honestly the club deserves better

  2. Michael24

    Whatever way you look at things, we are in far better place now than at any time over the past eight years(even longer).

    Emery has created a feeling of genuine excitement and belief that hasn’t existed for me personally, for a long long time.

    Infact, I would go as far as to say that supporting Arsenal has become a joyful experience once again.

    It’s amazing what change can do.

    Thanks Mr Emery.

  3. Marc

    Marko

    You must have read a different piece to me. The article say’s he won’t “seek” a move in Jan and then you get the usual platitudes about doing his best for the club for the rest of the season.

    Your reaction makes it sound as if he’s done a hatchet job on the club. If he’s going let’s get some money for him, he’s not worth what he’s asking for and I for one am glad the club seems to have someone running the football side of things who’s looking at using all of our resources in the best possible way.

  4. Michael24

    Bolt’s first not too bad.

    Can’t really play a high line with him playing against you.

    Reminds me a bit of Sanogo.

    Except better!

  5. Marc

    Howard

    As soon as you can find another team who will put in a bid for him and match his wages please let us all know. I’m sure the club would reward you as well.

  6. Marko

    Your reaction makes it sound as if he’s done a hatchet job on the club. If he’s going let’s get some money for him

    I read won’t move in January intends to stay thus we won’t get anything for him. I mean he’s done alright from us we had a contract offer on the table that HE didn’t sign and now all of a sudden it’s the club who’s refusing the contract. He’s a mercenary prick. He probably should have just kept his mouth shut but I suppose it’s easier to talk after the first half decent performance of the season. Outside of his cameo appearence against Fulham he’s been woeful all season long he’s not worth the agro

  7. Marc

    Marko

    I think you’re reading to much into this. He was asked a question and he’s given an answer that probably meet’s the club’s PR line. He hasn’t slagged off the club and it’s the reporter who suggests he won’t move in Jan rather than a quote from Ramsey.

    I think Ramsey or his agent overplayed their hand. Who wouldn’t try and get as much as they can? Especially when you look at how the club was operating, this time it appears the club have drawn a line under the Ozil deal and are playing hard ball.

  8. BacaryisGod

    This is a follow-on from the last Pedro posting but just couldn’t resist.

    Who is this idiot kc? First, it wasn’t a criminal trial so innocent until proven guilty so it doesn’t apply here. The woman who you so elegantly call ‘a bitch’ was a highly respected academic who clearly didn’t want to come forward initially. Based on the reaction from people like you, it’s easy to see why.

    Let me make one thing clear. Based on his academic and judicial qualifications, Kavanaugh was clearly capable of serving on the Supreme Court, and this is despite being selected mainly because he was the one candidate most likely to protect Trump from being held accountable for potential criminal prosecution.

    However, once the accusation from Dr.Ford was made public, his conduct clearly showed he was not temperamentally fit to serve.

    I could add that only 10% of his documents were available to review but that was political gamesmanship from a party that controls the presidency, the senate and the house. They were able to muscle him in and that’s what happens when you lose midterm and presidential elections.

    Anyway, back to Arsenal.

  9. BacaryisGod

    As for Ramsey, he was acting in his best interests just like the club is acting in its best interest. Still can’t understand why fans take it all so personally.

    You would think after Brady, Stapleton, Anderson, Vieira, Fabregas, Nasir, RVP, Clichy, Alexis etc that we would have learned by now. We also forget that our current favourites like Aubameyang, Lacazette and Torreira wouldn’t be here if they had stayed loyal to their teams. Don’t you see the double standard or do you just assume that no player should ever have a reason to leave us for money, titles or trophies? That’s how we get players and logically that should be why we lose them.

  10. Marc

    Bacary

    Exactly – the only time I get pissed off is if a player plays up or is a prick i.e. Adebayor or RVP.

    It’s not leaving that’s an issue it’s how you do it.

  11. Eduardo

    #EmeryKnows

    Seriously though, xG don’t win matches. Goals win matches.

    Players can (and do) pad stats now that they know people pay attention to them. hence some teams have good stats but are sh*t to watch and can’t compete at the top level (Wengerball etc).

  12. jwl

    Joke Friday:

    After picking her son up from school one day, the mother asks him what he did at school. The kid replies, “I had sex with my teacher.” She gets so mad that when they get home, she orders him to go straight to his room.

    When the father returns home that evening, the mother angrily tells him the news of what their son had done. As the father hears the news, a huge grin spreads across his face. He walks to his son’s room and asks him what happened at school, the son tells him, “I had sex with my teacher.”

    The father tells the boy that he is so proud of him, and he is going to reward him with the bike he has been asking for. On the way to the store, the dad asks his son if he would like to ride his new bike home.

    His son responds, “No thanks Dad, my butt still hurts.”

  13. jwl

    Reiss Nelson should stay in hoffenheim for at least entire season, he is playing regularly in Germany which is much better than being on fringes of Arsenal and only training during week but never playing in actual matches.

  14. Joe

    We are finally acting like a big club

    Told jack to fuck off

    Now telling Ramsey he can fuck of too

    Not being held for ransom by anyone anymore

    If wenger was still here , jack would be on 150k a week And Ramsey of 250

    Bravo Arsenal. Bravo

  15. Dissenter

    Ramsey needs to quit all the PR nonsense he’s pulling.
    He wanted a lot of money and succeeded in fooling the previous regime to offer him a deal that will end up costing the club a limb.
    The new people came in and decided this was not in the best interest of Arsenal.

    He should just keep his mouth shit and get through the rest of the contract.
    There’s no need to start trying to cast himself as the innocent party,

  16. jwl

    I agree with OleGunner about xG being shite stats. What is the point of even playing games if the statisticians already know who going to win?

  17. Guns of SF

    Ramsey can shut his trap.
    The club need to sell him in Jan. Bottom line is that he demanded and we did not give in. SO he can shut up with this ” I want to do the best for Arsenal and something special”
    That something special is shipping his ass out of here.

    I ask this question…
    Can the club sell him to whomever against his wishes or can he refuse?

  18. raptora

    You guys heard of this forward Krzysztof Piatek?

    Guy has been killing it for Genoa.

    He has scored in ALL 8 of his teams games. In all of them. 13 goals in 8 games. That’s fokin impressive. Last night he scored vs Portugal as well. He’s 23 yo and moved to Genoa this summer for 4.50m euro.

    We need this kind of deals but instead of spending 4-5m euro, make it 15-30m pounds a player. Talented guys that are more than likely to make the next step and become stars in our team. Just like Torreira.

  19. Dissenter

    Guns of SF
    ” – Selling him in January….. can he refuse?”

    YES!
    If I were his agent, I would be committing malpractice to let him move out 6 months before a big pay day.
    We are still contractually bound to pay him no matter what.
    6 months of paid leave isn’t going to kill him. He will still play for Wales to keep himself fresh.
    That ship has long sailed- the ball is in his court.

  20. Guns of SF

    The club need to tell Ramsey that he will be sold in January and needs the play his best otherwise benched for the season after Jan. or if he refuses this ……

  21. Marko

    There’s no need to start trying to cast himself as the innocent party,

    Exactly. Very unfair to say that it’s us who took the contract off the table when he refused terms the media kind of forget about that. He refused terms in the summer and probably thought he’d bend us over backwards when the transfer window closed and he was still here probably thought we’d have no other choice but to give him what he wants but thankfully we didn’t. It also didn’t help his cause that when push came to shove his form nose dived. First time in his career that he’s being asked to put in performances otherwise he gets dropped or substituted and he’s struggling to respond

  22. KAY Boss

    Jwl, my ribs are in stitches, terrible but funny joke.

    Can someone help me out. What is xG? I’ve got no idea what it is.

    Ramsey just said the truth. Some take things too personal. Everyone when given the opportunity will try and exploit his employer to get more. Rambo’s camp tried to play the game but in the end they lost. Maybe they were demanding exorbitant cash. Glad he’s going though

  23. englandsbest

    All kinds of factors come into play, but for me the major reason for the amazing winning streak is Emery. He has raised the level of performance, made the team more competitive.

    At times still disjointed, but improving by the minute.

  24. Guns of SF

    Just hope Sven and crew are identifying the one or maybe 2 players in Jan that we need. We need to go after them hard. Young talent that can take us to the next level. CM and Winger

  25. Dissenter

    KAYBoss
    Who’s taking it “too personal”?
    Giving an opinion [same as you’re doing] doesn’t constitute taking anything “personal”, does it?

  26. raptora

    Ramsey’s agents are some newbies and he is by far their biggest star.

    I’d be absolutely gutted if I had them representing me and now lead me to this situation. No way back either. He done goofed but if I was one of their other clients – the superstars Joel Ward and James Forrest for example – I’d be pushing myself out of there.

  27. Guns of SF

    His agents are sore losers with their deleted tweets regarding how they were willing to sign but the club pulled out etc. What a farce.
    Glad we grew a pair and said FU to him and his dumb amateur agents

  28. Joe

    JWL

    Especially in sports. That’s why we all watch them. No one can predict anything

    Other than wenge was going to fail again

  29. Dissenter

    raptora
    I agree with that thinking
    I’m not a big fan of spending mega fees on “world class’
    The goal is to get them just as they are about to make that leap. It’s a lot cheaper and there’s a resale potential.
    We have started that approach with Torriera so long may it continue.

  30. Zimmie2652

    ESPN just released an article… PSG want Wenger as GM after January window, supposedly. I don’t trust ESPN as far as I could throw those clowns though. Just the hottest gossip queens here stateside. Anyone hearing that yet on the other side of the pond? Guess we’ll know where Jackyboy will be next year!

  31. Marc

    Joe

    Stats are great if used the right way, problem is they’re too easy to twist. As a ridiculous example we are 8 points better off this season in the 8 comparable fixtures we’ve had in the league. You can then argue that we’ll pick up 38 more points this season – that’d give us 101 points and guarantee winning the league.

    Does anyone think that’s going to happen = course not. 4th is a definite opportunity and if one of Chelsea or Liverpool drop off maybe even 3rd.

  32. jwl

    “Can someone help me out. What is xG?”

    KAYBoss –

    To work out a team’s “expected goals” (xG) for a match, every shot must be analysed and given an “Expected goal value” (EGV).

    EGV is the probability that any given shot will end up as a goal.

    As Patrick Lucey, director of data science at STATS, explains, EGV is based on a number of factors, such as where the shot was taken from, the proximity of defenders, the nature of the attack (i.e a direct free-kick or a penalty).

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/07/25/expected-goals-xg-does-show-man-city-should-win-premier-league/

  33. jwl

    Joe – when I first learned about xG stat a few years ago, I thought it sounded like astrology. Peer into crystal ball and predict what going to happen in future.

  34. Joe

    Marc

    I have a good feeling for 4th. Also don’t think we will be hilariously behind the leaders either.

    The best part of all this is that we are even talking like this. The last decade or more we could not have had hope or even serious talk that we were going to be close or even hope or being close

    It feels great to be an arsenal fan again

  35. Alex Cutter

    “A man walked into a bar
    He said ouch
    It was an iron bar”

    This is how it’s told:

    Q: What did the man say when he walked into a bar?

    A: Ouch!

  36. Alex Cutter

    “After picking her son up from school one day, the mother asks him what he did at school. The kid replies, “I had sex with my teacher.” ”

    You literally copy/pasted this from one of my posts last year.

    Well done!

  37. un na naai

    Cunter

    Who says I’m white dummy?? Also, you don’t have to be a pussy boy lefty wimp to have come through depression you mug.

  38. Victorious

    A bit ironic some select few are yearning for 4th like their lives depends on it when that has been a piece of cake for us in years nonstop, i mean it becomes even more hilarious when its same folk who berated the club for being a top 4 club and wishing we fall down to enforce change,how’s that work out eh?,looks like its right back to 4th as the pinnacle.

  39. tee

    I read somewhere that Ramsey’s agent likes a negative tweet against Emery.

    red,

    you some times do talk trash.

    Spain is playing the finest of football these days

  40. Marko

    Vic when Wenger left us with 5th and 6th place finishes yeah it’d be a good thing if his replacement finished 4th.

  41. Marc

    Victorious

    I never wanted us to drop out of the CL I just wanted Wenger to go, those wanting Arsenal to get top 4 now is about progression. CL football attracts better players and gives you more money to pay. It also helps get better commercial deals again helping to finance better players.

    If you can’t see that Arsenal were being mismanaged you need to get your head out of your arse.

  42. HillWood

    Hope Prem clubs are watching this England match and realise how important the fans are and stop taking them for granted as mug punters

  43. Marc

    HillWood

    I forgot England were playing, just switched over for a minute and it’s shocking. Even the commentators sound uncomfortable with the lack of noise.

  44. Victorious

    Marko
    But we did finish in top 4 for 20years and since our last title win, fans were bored of it and questioned the ambition of the manager instead of the absentee owner, I mean Folk like you wanted a title challenge and thought a managerial change was all was needed, not to be getting a rude awakening despite a new gaffer in charge see we’re no where near a title challenge more than we have been in the some years now.

  45. Joe

    Victorious

    No one is “yearning” for your and your messiahs beloved 4th place trophy. It’s a stepping stone for greater things for arsenal and Emery. Unlike being the laughing stock of Europe in it under wenege, I’m
    Sure most of have confidence in Emery having arsenal doing very good in it

    Emery won’t be using it as a financial reason only to keep his job , he will use it as a footballing ambition play to get better players and COMPETE in it.

  46. Joe

    We were bored of it because we showed no progression it.

    Routinely got embarrassed in it.

    Were a laughing stock

    Now if in 3 years time we are showing no progress and still only making top 4 and no genuine league challenge and are still a joke in the CL I will have no problem saying good bye to Emery

    You really can’t be this daft Victorous? I hope your just trying to wind people up with these posts

  47. Michael24

    victorious

    2016-17 one point behind Liverpool in 5th place.
    2017-18 twelve points behind Liverpool in 6th and seven points behind Chelski.

    Finishing top 4 would be a massive step forward considering the state Wenger left the club in.

    Remember 2006- 2018 was a slow but predictable regression.

    This would be called progress.

  48. Joe

    we’re no where near a title challenge more than we have been in the some years now.

    We are 2 points off the top heading into November

    And also how fast do you expect Emery to fix the specialist in failures mistakes of the last dozen years. Isn’t going to happen overnight but 9 in a row says he’s doing pretty good

  49. Marc

    “questioned the ambition of the manager instead of the absentee owner”

    As of 30th April this year we had the 3rd highest net spend since June 2014. What do you expect from an owner? Be specific no clichés – let’s see if you can come with any coherent comment.

  50. Victorious

    I never wanted us to drop out of the CL I just wanted Wenger to go,”

    What any true supporter of the club would want but you know majority on here didn’t share this sentiment and I’m only but highlighting the hypocrisy and double standards of their very own logic

  51. Freddie Ljungberg

    It’s also harder than ever getting into the top 4 since Liverpool and Spurs have landed decent managers, and have been run much better than us for years now.

    No one in their right mind thought all we had to do was change managers to immediately challenge again, not with the unbalanced squad that Wenger left.

    It will take a couple of windows to rectify that, and CL football will help attract the players we need, at least there’s hope now that actual quality players will be brought in with competent people in charge and no dithering around.

  52. Victorious

    Joe/Marc/Micheal
    You’re shockingly missing the point

    When soonest do you foresee a ‘credible’ title challenge

    IF to get back to 4th place was the thinking behind appointing a new gaffer then the futility in such an idea cannot be overemphasised.

  53. Marc

    Joe

    On top of what you say before we play Liverpool Chelsea host ManU and City are away at the Spud’s.

    Emery will be under a huge amount of scrutiny for the Liverpool match but I just hope everyone doesn’t go overboard on the result – either way.

  54. Freddie Ljungberg

    I just hope we go all in trying to sell our “project” to Rabiot in January. Don’t think we have a chance in the summer.

    Him and Torreira at the base of midfield and we don’t have to touch our CM for 7-8 years. Get a winger like Pepe as well and it’s just the defence that needs attention next summer. A commanding CB and a top prospect LB and we could really be up there next season.

  55. Marc

    “When soonest do you foresee a ‘credible’ title challenge ”

    I don’t know but the fact that we’re not out of it by mid October is a start. Personally I think this season is about stabilizing the club, hopefully we’ll see the benefits next season.

    What was your alternative? Just carry on as things were? If that’s the case you’re missing the point that Wenger was getting worse and further adrift. Another summer under Wenger and we wouldn’t be making European football full stop.

  56. Michael24

    victorious

    Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear, how blind can one be?

    Your talking of a title challenge when we haven’t mounted a serious one for years.

    The idea behind appointing a new manager was to bring some credibility back to the club along with pride and passion to compete once again.

    You’ve been living in a cardboard box for far too long my friend.

  57. Marc

    Victorious

    Well the link to that article show’s your complete lack of comprehension of what Kroenke was saying.

    Try to get past the headline that the paper puts up to gain clicks.

  58. Joe

    Credible?

    Hopefully next season

    Definitely by 3 rd season

    Marc

    Also losing to Liverpool (which i don’t think we will) doesn’t mean anything into how Emery is doing

    Liverpool have 2 points v city and Chelsea

    We have 0. We keep winning a bunch in a row after dropping points, those dropped points will be made up elsewhere

  59. Joe

    Haven’t been credible contenders for over a decade and Vicky wants Emery to contend by October in his first season

    And he is calling out hypocrisy and double standards. haha

    Don’t think he knows what those words even mean

    Haha the irony

  60. Marc

    Joe

    It’ll be interesting to see how Liverpool do over the season. Gary Neville was making a lot of comments about the way they play during the City game. Essence was drop off 1 or 2 % when you have their style of play and it has a big effect on results.

    Klopp needs to prioritise the PL if they have any chance of winning it. If they try to fight on 2 or 3 fronts they could fuck up their best chance of winning the league in a long time.

  61. Victorious

    “If you want to win championships then you would never get involved. I think the best owners in sports are the guys that sort of watch both sides a bit. If you don’t have a good business then you can’t really afford to go out and get the best players unless you just want to rely on other sources of income.

    Again Marc, from the horse’s mouth

    How does this statement gives the impression of someone ambitious?

    Are you saying Kroenke is ambitious ?

    Does that sound like a man who wants the club to exhaust all possible means to WIN

    Think you’re the one here struggling with the comprehension bit.

  62. Joe

    Vicky

    Go watch the LA Rams

    Think what they are doing being the best team in the NFL speaks louder than some stupid article you want to dig up

  63. Victorious

    Haven’t been credible contenders for over a decade and Vicky wants Emery to contend by October in his first season”

    Ezxeot I haven’t in anywhere today insinuated this

    Hoe about for once you hold on to what gas been said and not making shit up

    Makes you come across unstable

    Really a wierd one this joey character

  64. Joe

    I really enjoy Arsène – very smart, very intelligent,” says Kroenke. “He has an absolute view on how he runs that team and the club. He has earned that right. Don’t look for me to interfere with that. I have learnt over the years that sometimes owners try do that and it is not so good.
    “We’ve always said that there are resources available. There are guys who say that we should push Arsène harder to spend. That’s fair enough – there are always lots of opinions but Arsène is an independent thinker and planner. He works very hard at it and has a wonderful record. He was trained in economics.”

  65. Joe

    we’re no where near a title challenge more than we have been in the some years now.

    You said that. In oct

    Plain as day for every one to see, you expect Emery to be challenging for the title in October. Which by the way he is.

  66. Marc

    Victorious

    It was a poor choice of words but we clearly take widely different meanings from the comment.

    “I think the best owners in sports are the guys that sort of watch both sides a bit” – You’ve got to be sensible, allowing a club to spend beyond it’s means will result in the club going tits up – ask Leeds fans.

    “If you don’t have a good business then you can’t really afford to go out and get the best players unless you just want to rely on other sources of income.” – I’m not going to personally fund a spending spree at Arsenal but I’ll allow the club to spend the money it makes. I’ll also look to increase turnover from commercial deals and sponsorship to provide additional funds.

    Might not be the sugar daddy owner you want but it’s the position of a stable long term business man. Let’s see what happens with Chelsea over the next couple of years with Abramovich losing interest.

  67. Bamford10

    Victorious

    You’re really not very good at making arguments. The reason people here might be satisfied with fourth this season but weren’t satisfied with fourth under Wenger is because we finished SIXTH last season and we don’t have a great squad.

    It’s all relative.

    If we had finished third last season and had an excellent squad, people here would expect more of Emery.

    If we manage to finish fourth this season, people here will expect Emery and Co. to improve the XI and squad over the summer and expect us to be even better next season.

    If Emery and Co. don’t improve us over the summer and in the following season, people will begin asking questions.

    See how that works?

    Wenger went a decade without even once contending for the title. And it was clear from all of the decisions he made that he was actually not all that bothered about contending for or winning a title. If he had cared about those things, he would have made different decisions.

    As for your comment re “our absentee owner,” this owner never once limited what Wenger could spend.

    Wenger failed for one reason and one reason alone: his own bad ideas.

  68. Marc

    Victorious

    You do realise that nearly every comment you makes comes across as trying to deflect any responsibility on Wenger’s management.

    Say the words “Wenger had to go”.

  69. Victorious

    Joe
    I will try and make it simple enough

    The club finishes in top 4 for 20 years in a row

    Fans wants tittle challenge every year

    Meanwhile the owner is not remotely interested in trophies

    Club removes a manager who has top4 on a lock, I mean almost like a speciality

    Fans are bored of top4

    A new manager is appointed and top 4 suddenly becomes a dream again

    There’s a combination of flip-flopping and serious flaw in whatever logic you and your likes have there

  70. Marc

    Bamford

    Sorry but your last comment was just daft. How do you expect Victorious to understand something that’s measured and sensible?

    On a serious note I’m not sure I’d agree we don’t have a great squad. We have some excellent players it’s more a case of an unbalanced squad in my opinion. Either way a couple of transfer windows and we’ll have a much clearer idea of where we are.

  71. Bamford10

    Great quote, Joe. I like it so much I’ll re-post a part of it for emphasis:

    “There are guys who say that we should push Arsène harder to spend. That’s fair enough – there are always lots of opinions, but Arsène is an independent thinker and planner. He works very hard at it and has a wonderful record. He was trained in economics.” – Stan Kroenke

    It is and was all on Wenger.

  72. Marc

    Bamford

    Isn’t it strange that this uninterested owner gave Wenger one season to get back in the top 4 and then “allowed” him to retire. It actually shows a little bit of class on Kroenke’s part to give Wenger the chance to save some face.

  73. Bamford10

    Victorious

    “Fans want title challenge every year.”

    Classic straw-man. There is not a single person here or elsewhere who ever expected or demanded that Arsenal challenge for the title every year.

    Please make better arguments.

  74. Bamford10

    Marc

    I agree that our squad is not bad, but it is unbalanced and thin on quality in certain spots, so by definition it isn’t a “great” squad.

    Maybe you thought by “not great” I meant “poor,” but I didn’t mean that. I’d say our squad is decent. Not good, not great, but not terrible.

    If you rate players out of 100, I’d say our first 13 players are, on average, about a 90. However, to compete with a City or Liverpool for the title, you probably need to average more like 93.

    (City probably average a 94 or 95.)

    So we’re not bad, IMO, but we need to get better.

  75. Marc

    Bamford

    Definitely need to get better I just think we’ve built a squad out of “I like the way he plays” rather than what we need. Torreira is a sign that that’s changing.

  76. Joe

    Vicky

    Since you don’t understand I’ll make it like
    I’m talking to a 5 year old because that seems to be your mental capacity

    NO ONE is going to be happy if Emery only gets top 4 and continues to be a failure in the CL like the laughing stock wenger was

    I expect Emery to get us into 1/4 finals and semis and finals. If he continues to be a failure like wenger he can go

    I expect Emery to challenge for the title by year 3. If we are still a laughing stock in the PL like the specialist in failure like wenger was he can go.

    We want progression Vicky. Not making top 4 like wenger did just to make money do he didn’t lose his job and not for footballing ambitions

    Emery is a football manager. Not an failed economist like wenger.

    Top 4 for Emery Wilk help his footballing ambitions at arsenal. Unlike wenger who used it to pad his bank account and stay in a Job 12 years longer than he should have

  77. Victorious

    Bam
    Do me a favour with the lectures on what it entails to make an ‘argument ‘.

    Your lame attempt to re-write history is embarrassingly transparent

    Are you trying to tell me people were content of just been in top4?

    That a section of the fanbase didn’t become pawn for the media to paint the club in bad light and air truck loads of negativity towards the club despite being the most successful F. A cup team to date?

    Don’t fool yourself mate, the poumposity of you and your ilk to become major challengers for the title despite been on a shoestring budget wasn’t lost on some of us.

  78. Marko

    When soonest do you foresee a ‘credible’ title challenge

    Who knows but what I do know is that if Wenger was still here 100% we wouldn’t be challenging he was about as busted as you could get as a manager. I mean Vic I personally don’t get the agenda you’re going with these days I really don’t you come across as some sort of jilted ex only worse because you’re a grown-up and made all the worst when you realize that his replacement is doing well at the moment on a hot 9 game winning run. It’s also important to remember Wenger’s never coming back it’s not ever going to happen we’ve moved on perhaps you finally should too Vic

  79. Marc

    To change the subject what does everyone think happens to Klopp if they don’t win the title this season? He won’t be sacked (unless they crash) but at what point has he taken them as far as he can with nothing to show for it. This is his 4th season, at some point the amazing owners at Liverpool (who haven’t put a penny into the club and who have a net spend a lot less than Arsenal) will decide to look at alternatives.

  80. Marko

    I really don’t know why any of you bother

    International break… boredom. Certainly a good chance to see who the real Arsenal fans as opposed to the Arsene fans

  81. Marko

    To change the subject what does everyone think happens to Klopp if they don’t win the title this season?

    I mean there’ll be questions asked of him especially with the money spent but I’d imagine he’ll be fine it’d be different if it was a two horse race type of league but with City and Chelsea and the competitiveness in the league the real lack of expectation at Liverpool probably means he’d be safe for a while longer. He’s more likely to leave them than be sacked I think

  82. Marko

    will decide to look at alternatives.

    The other thing is Klopp is one of the best managers around top 5-7 easily and after that who is there? He’s about as good as Liverpool can get all things considering

  83. Bamford10

    Nothing changes for Klopp unless he underperforms, and finishing second to City can’t be regarded as underperforming. As good as Liverpool are and as much money as they’ve spent, City are still City. Challenging for the title but finishing second is nothing to be ashamed of. And let’s remember that he beat City in the CL last season and advanced to the CL final.

    Dude is impressive. I find the Klopp skepticism / criticism here a bit funny at times.

  84. Victorious

    Marko speaking of dippers, your boy Keita is struggling to get a look in, not saying he’s suddenly shit but I remember the time you said he would have been our best midfielder since Cesc,
    You must think to yourself that was a doozy moment from you.

  85. Joe

    It’s fucking hilarious when the likes of Vicky Pierre etc get put in their place by a post they ignore it

    Hahaha

    Fucking children these Akbs

    I’ll repost it in case you missed it

    VickySince you don’t understand I’ll make it like
    I’m talking to a 5 year old because that seems to be your mental capacity NO ONE is going to be happy if Emery only gets top 4 and continues to be a failure in the CL like the laughing stock wenger was I expect Emery to get us into 1/4 finals and semis and finals. If he continues to be a failure like wenger he can goI expect Emery to challenge for the title by year 3. If we are still a laughing stock in the PL like the specialist in failure like wenger was he can go. We want progression Vicky. Not making top 4 like wenger did just to make money do he didn’t lose his job and not for footballing ambitionsEmery is a football manager. Not an failed economist like wenger. Top 4 for Emery Wilk help his footballing ambitions at arsenal. Unlike wenger who used it to pad his bank account and stay in a Job 12 years longer than he should have

  86. Joe

    You’ve been shown to be nothing but a fool more than enough times today Vicky

    I’d say good night if I were and let the adults talk

  87. Pierre

    I think we are all in agreement that wenger lost his ability to find real talent and some of his buys were very average and he failed to address the weaknesses in the squad.

    As for Bamford ‘s comment “this owner never once limited what Wenger could spend.” , maybe we will never know the truth but the point I must make is that last season we made a profit in the transfer market of around £14 million .
    Taking that into account ,the £70 that Emery was allowed to spend would indicate that there is actually a limit on what we can spend because the sum of £56 net spent this season and last season is actually a pathetic amount for a club of Arsenal’s size.

    Or are some implying that Emery is refusing to spend available transfer funds as apparently “kronke has never put a limit on spending”

    So what is it then …..a limit on spending or Emery refusing to spend..

  88. UTarse

    I see the 12 year old village idiot is back.

    Funny how he disappeared when Emery’s Arsenal won 5-1 at Fulham playing best football we’ve played in a long time. What’s the matter 12 year old ? Fall asleep again watching it ? Or not brave enough to show your face on here and hold your hands up ?

  89. Pierre

    Joe
    “Maybe Emery wanted to see what he had and didn’t have and spend in Jan and next summer?”

    You may be right joe , but I doubt it…

    Of course there is a limit on what we spend …the only 2 clubs that have no limit is city and United …..
    Chelsea stockpiled players for ten years and are still reaping the benefits of that policy but they won’t be able to sustain that from now on so the owner will have to put his hand in his pocket for Chelsea to remain near the top.

    liverpool have had coutinho’s money to spend but I can’t see them spending at the same level . ..

    Spurs are in the same boat as Arsenal.

  90. nepGunner

    Boy what fans we have who cant recall where we finished in the league table season last and the one before?

    Or did they follow City and Chelsea for the last two seasons? Must be 🙂

  91. Marko

    Marko speaking of dippers, your boy Keita is struggling to get a look in, not saying he’s suddenly shit but I remember the time you said he would have been our best midfielder since Cesc,
    You must think to yourself that was a doozy moment from you.

    Hardly struggling he started 4 of his 8 appearences in the league only recently got rotated but to be fair they’ve all recently looked a bit jaded. I wouldn’t worry about him Vic he’s one of the best young midfielders around. I’d worry more about your boy AMN and whether or not he’ll ever make it in our midfield or at the very least will he ever be as good as Ndombele.

  92. Marko

    Taking that into account ,the £70 that Emery was allowed to spend would indicate that there is actually a limit on what we can spend because the sum of £56 net spent this season and last season is actually a pathetic amount for a club of Arsenal’s size.

    Right so we’re self sufficient right and that means we only really spend what we can afford to spend right and under Wenger we finished outside the champions league spots two seasons in a row so our revenues got affected and that’s why our budget was what it was. Speaking of pathetic do you remember that summer we spent just 10 million on a Goalkeeper? Now that was pathetic

  93. Michael24

    victorious

    Hypothetical questions.

    If Wenger had stayed, do you think we would be where we are now? and., on top of this, would we make top 4?

  94. TheLegendaryDB10

    Victorious

    Your deflection of AW is pathetic. The only reason we are happy for 4th THIS SEASON is due to the fact that there was so much to do this season which was due to the lack of coaching in previous seasons.

    Comes next season, and we will be far more ready to compete next season. With Ramsey gone, their will be less formation disruption. Our team will be be even better once Ozil leaves.

  95. englandsbest

    There is absolutely no doubt at all that Stan set financial parameters at Arsenal, none at all. All bosses do that with their businesses, otherwise they would not survive.

    The question is: was his bottom-line policy sensible or necessary?

    Let’s take a look at what it was. First, it was sell to buy, and second, the transfer budget and the salary budget were lumped together.

    To answer the second question first: no it wasn’t necessary because the current account never fell below £100m. And in those days £3) m would buy both a top GK and a top CB.

    The answer to the first question – was it sensible? – depends on POV. In Stan’s view it was sensible because he was making a no-risk profit. Year on year the Emirates debt reduced,

    From the fans POV it was not sensible. And it turns out that we were right all along. And for financial reasons. If an elite club does not compete. its revenue diminishes. Or to put it another way, we fell behind other elite clubs in revenue.

    Yes, I know all about Roman and the sheikh, but Man U is a more accurate comparison. Their commercial revenue soared ahead of ours because they competed and won trophies.

    There are other downsides to Kroenke financial policy but I will name just one – the longevity of Wenger. And to forestall people asking me for proof, look no further than what both Wenger and Gazidis themselves told us retrospectively when the bottom line allowed them to spend £43 m on Ozil.

  96. Michael24

    One of Arsenal’s problems over the last twelve years has not been the lack of spending, it’s been the ludicrous sums dished out to so many undeserving players.

    “Yeh, but Arsenal have had financial restraints”.

    Balderdash!!

  97. Childish Gambino

    Is it just me or I really want us to buy more South American players with grit, determination, hunger and fight.

    A la Torreira or pre-sulky Alexis.

    I wont mind Almiron if he displays drive and gives his all for the badge unlike a certain #10

  98. ddkingz

    if Emery manages to have a view on what’s said on le-grove, he definitely would know the fans are the boss….not silent Stan..

  99. ddkingz

    Wenger was a greedy cunt…no disrespect man, I’m just stating the fact…

    He could have led long ago, with his pride and ego intact…..but sadly he didn’t….

    No matter what the WOB or AKB’S say or do….. Wenger shattered his own legacy by overstaying his welcome….he could have left by 2011/2012, but no he got greedy

  100. ddkingz

    wenger was responsible for everything about arsenal….both the good, the bad, and the ugly….

    the good:
    Beautiful football, beautiful stadium, glorious players, and a cabinet of trophies, and his LEGACY.

    the bad:
    never took responsibility for his team failings on and off the pitch…kept Making awful last hour signings and kept a bucket full of bad English players in the team…

    the ugly:
    wenger played handball with ARSENAL and never taught of the consequences.
    Brought stagnation to the team.
    Took top4 finish like a trophy….
    and finally a badly tarnished legacy…

    and I guess, he knew all this himself, haven’t been at the Emirates once,.

  101. BacaryisGod

    I wouldn’t completely rule out Ramsey leaving in January. He might have all the cards but one serious injury would see all his potential future money getting flushed down the toilet.

    After the rule change, he can also play Champions League this season. I find it hard to believe that if Real or Juventus came calling with a 4 year deal that he wouldn’t jump at it. He mitigates the risk of getting injured and goes straight into zchamoions League play. Not bad, really. Also, Arsenal would take less on the transfer fee to keep him away from Man United or Liverpool and ship him overseas.

  102. BacaryisGod

    I wouldn’t completely rule out Ramsey leaving in January. He might have all the cards but one serious injury would see all his potential future money getting flushed down the toilet.

    After the rule change, he can also play Champions League this season. I find it hard to believe that if Real or Juventus came calling with a 4 year deal that he wouldn’t jump at it. He mitigates the risk of getting injured and goes straight into Champions League play. Not bad, really.

    Also, Arsenal would take less on the transfer fee to keep him away from Man United or Liverpool and ship him overseas.

  103. Leedsgunner

    The latest podcast on Arseblog has an interesting episode on how an “expected goals” originated and how it is being used today. Well, I found it interesting.

  104. Dream10

    Hope we are looking for a fast young left back who can be a difference maker. Having one enhances the quality of attacking play. The elite teams have them. Chilwell of Leicester and Ferland Mendy of Lyon look like top young players. We tried to sign Chilwell in the summer of 2016. Added bonus of being homegrown as well.

  105. China

    If we came 4th but embarrassed ourselves in the cl, won nothing and we’re 15 points back of the title winners, wenger would still be here

    That’s as good as a fact. It’s so obvious it is beyond being disputed.

    As ugly and messy as this was, wenger dropping down the table was the only reason he lost his job.

    Sometimes you have to take a step backwards to take 2 steps forward.