Project British Youth nearly dead with Ramsey departure

by .


What a wally I looked yesterday!

How could I doubt John Cross. The man from The Mirror came back from the dead. He stole the internet crown from David Ornstein. A GoT like plotline.

Aaron Ramsey is DONE with Arsenal.

Now, I really don’t know what the fuck is going on here. So here are some bits that I do know, mashed in with guesswork. I won’t tell you which is what to keep you on your toes.

Mesut Ozil getting £350k a week was a massive mistake.

Aaron Ramsey’s agent pushed for that number.

Arsenal has withdrawn the deal.

Now, something must have gone on here that was major.

Did his agent name the number and refuse to budge?

Did the club catch wind of a deal with another club?

Did Arsenal decide that the money Aaron wanted didn’t match his ability?

Was it a blend of all of the above?

Here’s my thinking on it. He’s just too expensive for what he gives to the team.

Aaron is a good player, I struggle to see the greatness.

He works best when he’s allowed to do what the fuck he wants. He’s not really fitting into the Emery system at the moment. There are younger players with a better record of fitness that could do his job.

Additionally, the club is severely short of talent that works in Emery’s system. We need a winger. We need a replacement for Koscielny. We’re going to need to upgrade at leftback. There are a lot of holes in the squad. I’m not sure the best place to invest £91m is on Aaron Ramsey over 5 years.

The next area of planning Arsenal need to address in the transfer market is hot young players in the mold of Torreira. Players like Sarr. Those that’ll come in on £50k a week, and maybe look like Dembele in 2 years.

If we’re going to splash out galactico money, we should be doing that on transfer fees, not on wages.

The worst thing to happen to Arsenal this year was tying Mesut down to a £18.2m deal over 4 years. It was a crazy moment driven by ego and misplaced fear. There was nothing ambitious about it. I said at the time, the best leverage Arsenal had was that no other club in Europe had gone near him. But we pulled the trigger because the press of losing him wouldn’t have reflected well on Ivan. Now Emery is in, he can’t use him as a 10 and if he’s played on the right, he clearly hates it and it doesn’t really click.

Here’s the question now on Rambo. Where is he going?

Juventus won’t pay him galactico money, because they don’t have it. The Milan rumour is fucking hilarious if true, Ivan promising to make him as rich as him at a new club.

Will he move to Chelsea? United? City? Will they pay him mega money? It’s hard to see it, because, despite his talent, he’s not disciplined because he’s never been properly coached (until this season).

Another guess, he’s pushing Arsenal for mega money, if he doesn’t get it, he’ll chase trophies.

Whatever the deal, if Arsenal has pulled out of negotiations, I trust the decision. We have footballing brains on the team now. Raul will have made the case money wise, Sven and Emery will be looking at his data and comparing what they could buy for that money elsewhere, and the decision will be a sound one.

It’s sad that he wants to move on. I’ll always have a soft spot for him. I think the real issue is the loss of control over the narrative. Ramsey will now come under intense scrutiny. His body language, perceived effort, dedication, how hard he goes into challenges… and ultimately, he’s likely going to become a target of fan angst… and that’s a shame.

It’s like living in the same house as a partner you’ve broken up with. It’ll be sunshine and rainbows for a month, because you’re mature people. Then something will happen. He’ll drop a stinker against Spurs, and that’ll be it. Game over. Get the f*ck out of my house you selfish bitch, how could you do this to me! GET THE FUCK AWAY FROM MY CAT!

Anyway, sad times, but fuck it… we’ll move on, we’ll find better, we’ll survive his loss. Hardly an RVP or Cesc moment.

Finally, how can you not look at that picture at the top of the blog and not feel a little sad? Project British Youth was the most miserable failure of Wenger’s tenure. The vision was interesting, but the execution was diabolical. You know why? Shite coaching. Imagine those players under Klopp? We’d be in a very different place right now…

Wipe those tears, we’re done.

1,089 Responses to “Project British Youth nearly dead with Ramsey departure”

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  1. Guns of SF

    Nice write up today and yesterday.

    You are spot on with the Rambo conundrum. We need to get hot talented youth with our limited transfer budget. We have some good veterans but need to really build up with younger first team players. ages 22-24 ish

    Would love to see a pacy winger- quick left back who knows how to defend and use their right leg.

    Oh well…. Rambo is a rich man. I cannot feel too bad about him. I had a soft spot for him with the leg break, but since then, my affection has waned completely.

  2. Northbanker

    My view is absolute
    Put Ramsey int he reserves or whatever they’re called these days
    Don’t play him at all as he’s a liability and force him out in Jan . Value will probably go up as he doesn’t remind everyone else of how limited a player he is
    Put Ozil is centre and if he doesn’t perform do the same to him
    We have to get tough with these players and not let their so called reputation or ego bring us down

  3. Leedsgunner

    Nice to know I pre-empted the new post with my comment at 14.58 on the previous thread. Great minds think alike. 😉

    No man is bigger than the club… definitely not Ramsey.

  4. DM

    Well guys, no tr4phy for me today and I’m done now for the next couple of weeks (bit longer). Will prob pay some visits while on holiday but, for now, take care guys, happy tr4phy-hunting and I’ll see you on the other side!

  5. steve

    Ramsey is a bang average player. One good half of a season in what ten years? What a joke. And even then most of his goals came against pub sides.

  6. Leedsgunner

    As for John Cross getting it right… please.

    He’s a broken clock… nothing more… and he got lucky.

    He thinks he’s got the inside track on Arsenal… but what he doesn’t realise is he’s on a treadmill going nowhere.

  7. Leedsgunner

    Use Ramsey as a sub if we must but we must start learning to live without Ramsey if he’s on his way out.

    It’s not like we are short on CMs now anyways.

    Ramsey will highly be motivated to play out of his skin for his new employers so even if he plays as a super sub we will benefit.

    We owe Ramsey nothing.

    I never understood why Wenger started the Ox when the player made it very clear he wanted out… it’s as if Wenger was playing the player as a mark of defiance to the fans… to teach us he was in control and there was nothing we could do about it.

    I would start to blood Joe W.illock — his energy and toughness reminds me of young Ramsey in many ways.

  8. Cesc Appeal

    This is a great moment for Arsenal to throw down a marker.

    They have already started by pulling the deal for Ramsey and casting him off. Now they need to finish it by benching him and not letting him play again.

    That will show the rest of the squad and their agents who have been use to a pathetic manager desperately trying to persevere his own position calling the shots. They are dealing with a football club now.

    Interesting that Milan are closely linked to him, could it be that Ramsey was another in the mould of Arteta? A bit of a polite, not rock the boat, arse kisser that Gazidis likes? Interesting that Gazidis officially leaves and then a very short time later the deal is removed.

    Everything should be focused on trying to get Rabiot on a free if we can, but there is a world of central midfield talent out there, Brozovic, Sanson, Zielinski, Fornals, Aouar, Gbamin, Maddison and lots more.

    No big loss at all.

    That Ozil deal though, just one of the worst things they club ever did along with Wenger’s new deal. At least we could pull the plug on that. Sanellhi needs to put his foot down now, we made a massive f**k up once, cannot let it happen again.

  9. China

    Good post Pedro

    The sad truth is that Ferguson would’ve made something out of a handful of those British kids

    But we just told a bunch of 19 year olds to go out there and be good and hoped it would be enough

  10. Receding Hairline

    Everything should be focused on trying to get Rabiot on a free if we can, but there is a world of central midfield talent out there, Brozovic, Sanson, Zielinski, Fornals, Aouar, Gbamin, Maddison and lots more.

    And there it is in a nutshell

    When RVP left you could not reel out names of players who could easily replace him and can be purchased

    Same with when we lost Cesc

    But with Ramsey you could name thirty younger midfielders who will come in and do a job, yes they may not score goals, but our midfield will be better for it

  11. Drey

    I saw the headline, thought it was another moan from Pedro about how Ramsey is our Messiah, but glad to see that you said it as it is.
    Good on Arsenal for growing a pair this time around. Ramsey’s bloated ego and aura of being a Messi always pisses me off.
    You wanna collect 250k a week? for what? to chase talented strikers off their positions in search of glory? No, thank you.
    You can fuck off to a Crystal Palace or Wolves that is truly your level.
    Wilshere is finding out. You will too

  12. China

    The odd thing is we got this reputation for being a great club at developing talent but very few of our young talents achieved their potential and those who did were gifted before we got to them (cesc, rvp)

  13. Carts

    If we’re being entirely honest, and let’s not start pulling desperate stats like FA cup finals goals scored, Ramsey is a busted flush.

    The fact that he lacks discipline tells you all you need to know, though I’d also attribute a sizeable portion of that to Wenger’s complete lack of man management

    Ramsey has hit his ceiling. I highly doubt Emery can extract anymore from Ramsey, and that not an enrichment on Emery but more to the fact that Ramsey has nothing else to give, imho.

    Sell him in January and use that money wisely.

    As someone said yesterday, we’ve lost millions on the amateur handing of Sanchez and Wilshere; doing the same on Ramsey is a sackable offence

  14. Cesc Appeal


    I think there’s confusion between developing youngsters and playing them. Because Wenger existed in a very low pressure environment he could play the young players where someone like Ferguson needed to win the league and so needed to make sure he was on track to do that. As I understand it that is how Ramsey ended up here, we promised him lots of playing time when Ferguson couldn’t necessarily.

    We were a great environment for young players to have chance after chance, I don’t necessarily think to develop them into really great starting players.

    That is shown as well by how low value our players are compared to those around us in the top 6. Our development of talent both youth and senior has been s**t for years now to the point that people’s values are probably less then when we bought them across the board. Mustafi, Ozil, Xhaka, I bet none of them could fetch the fees we paid for them.

  15. Michael24

    Forget Klopp,”imagine those players under Emery”.

    Won’t give Wenger another kicking regards this particular subject, but let’s just say it was yet another fine mess he got us into.

    You actually don’t realise how bad Wenger was as a coach, until you analyse all the crap he dished up.

    How the fudge did Arsenal fans buy into all this shite?


    Great comeback by Europe in the golf.

    Tommy Fleetwood is definitely the new kid on the block.

  16. China

    You look at how many high ceilings we crushed

    Ramsey and Denilson both looked like up and coming cesc types in their first seasons with us

    Wilshere was the hottest British property since gazza

    Senderos and djourou both looked like huge talents at the start

    Eboue went from cafu to cat food

    Diaby turned into diabetes

    Fabianski became flappy handski

    The ox used to run the ball straight out of play when no one was near him

    Walcott was the next Henry but can clearly be seen against man city a couple of years back getting released one v one and jumping away from the ball in one of the dumbest things I’ve ever seen

    Bellerin has become bellend

    I don’t think most other teams fans all go so hard on their own young talent but this is what we’ve been reduced to after so many years of frustration

  17. China

    B52 was the next Tomasson and instead became LORD BENDTNER in one of the most entertaining twists of football in the last 20 years

  18. N5

    “Bellerin has become bellend”

    😀 😀 😀

    He really has! He did make me laugh that time he was being criticised for his bad crossing so he took a picture of himself on a road crossing and said. Hey Arsenal fans, I’m working on my crossing! or something like that!!

    But little did I realise at the time, that is just his view on life! he’s a joke!!

    I know it’s nothing to do with your overall comment, but any chance I get to moan about HB I take it 😀

  19. azed

    After Rasmey, next on the list should be Ozil.

    Enough of this over paid halfwits.

    Looks like Arsenal is now becoming a proper club again.

  20. Guns of SF

    Rambo leaves- more pressure on Nozil.
    He will cave in… he will be gone to Italy or somewhere else in another year…

  21. Cesc Appeal


    I just cannot see us getting rid of him. Who is going to be stupid enough to take him?

    The only thing that might save us is if he really has given up on football and decides to go to Turkey on less money or China.

  22. Marc

    I have a feeling Ramsey will go abroad, he’s mentioned the appeal of playing overseas before. Only problem is I reckon he fancies himself at Madrid or Barca which just ain’t gonna happen. So maybe Italy, the PL alternatives are a bit more complicated. Man City no way, Liverpool seem to have more than enough CM’s, ManU – Can’t see the board giving Mourinho any serious money to spend but if he is still there in Jan and they’ll spend grab it. Chelsea – maybe but there’s talk of Abramovich selling up so the uncertainty could be an issue. There aren’t any other PL club’s that Ramsey would feel meet his “level”.

    He might have played a long hand for mega money and find that he doesn’t get what or where he expected.

  23. China

    MAGA make arsenal great again

    Here’s a fun thought. If you could go back in time and ensure

    1) a player would’ve got excellent coaching
    2) a player got sold
    3) you could slap any current or former player with a wet fish

    Who would you choose for each?

    1) coaching – senderos, could’ve been immense
    2) sold/never bought – Ramsey, we could’ve got huge money for him a couple of years back if only we’d known…
    3) wet fish slappage – has to be Wally. Has to be

  24. Savage

    I agree with Pedro’s post on Ramsey, and was listening to Arsenal Vision podcast saying the same.

    In a rapid summer transfer window we signed two hot young midfielders in Torreira and Guendouzi, plus we have AMN and ESR coming through – and the point is you just move on. I also wouldn’t be shocked if Iwobi does a better job than Ramsey in that position.

  25. Michael24

    Don’t the Americans realise that striped polo shirts became old hat in 1895?

    They never seem to get it right when it comes to Ryder Cup fashion sense.

  26. China

    Nothing would make me happier than if Tianjin TEDA or Tianjin Quanjian forked our for Ramsey and ozil and we’re lining up in my back yard. I’m not fussed about watching them play I’d just feel great knowing they’re not at arsenal anymore

  27. azed


    We would have to take a loss on him. Make him available for like 10M or something close so we can get him off the books.

    It would make more financial sense than benching him or playing him to the detriment of the team.

  28. Arsene's Nurse

    “Aaron is a good player, I struggle to see the greatness.

    He works best when he’s allowed to do what the fuck he wants.”

    No, he’s a mediocre player, because he’s allowed to do what he wants.

  29. Guns of SF

    Yes Nozil will be a loss to the club- 10M sounds about right.
    He is done- washed up, and cannot give us anything more than what we have seen. Ditto Ramsey.
    We need a younger dynamic and quicker midfield. No more Wenger ball- slow passing, etc.
    We have to just bite the bullet and make this happen to move forward.

  30. Pierre

    Couldn’t believe that Bjorn put 3 rookies straight in this morning..he should start with the same pairings tomorrow morning that played this afternoon…

  31. azed


    1) Diaby (not coaching but injuries). He was massively talented and would have been an excellent CM. He’s Pogba before Pogba.
    2) Ozil: we needed a striker when Wenger bought him frankly hasn’t been worth it.
    3) Jenkinson, Song, Ramsey, Gallas

  32. azed


    Rather than pay say 25M for Ozil, the buying club pays Arsenal 10M, gives Ozil and his agent a lump some of 10 -12 M and bargain for reduced wages.

    Its hard but possible.

  33. Victorious

    Someone mentioned how it’s really no coincidence that no sooner has slimeball Gazidis left the building and the ‘ozil like’ contract is pulled away from Ramsey
    I mean this man is just as culpable of being a major roadblock in our efforts for success this past few years
    If Raul really has a hand in all of this then he just happens to move a notch higher in my estimation

  34. Guns of SF

    Its also called a sign on bonus to offset wages
    No doubt that the 350K is an utter disaster. Wenger’s parting gift

    I wonder what Raul and Sven were doing when all this shit negotiations were going down…. just trying not to cuss under their breathes and beating the shit out of the punching bag at home….
    I can only imagine the frustration they might have felt during Wengers shit show with Ozil

  35. Guns of SF

    if a lifeline is thrown to Ozil, he might bite at that….
    To get out of Arsenal he might negotiate lower wages- who knows.
    If Gala or Fener come calling- maybe?
    I do see him in Serie A- either Milan team mostly

  36. Bamford10

    So if Ramsey is benched, as most here seem to want, should we go with:





    or something else?

  37. Marc


    I get the idea of a reduced transfer fee – that’s the easy part but suggesting they would also chuck £10 – £12 million as a sweetener for reduced wages which would still be in the range of £200 – £250 per week? Sorry but I think wishful thinking is clouding your judgement.

  38. Marc


    Well for a start we could try Torreira and Guendozi in CM in the run up to Jan to see how it works. If we’re going to play Ozil it’s got to be at the “10” position anything else is a waste of time. Personally I like Mikki so it’s a case of can he play wide right with Ozil in the hole?

  39. Bamford10


    I think I agree.


    I really like Guendouzi, but I don’t know if I want to give him the starting role at such a tender age. He is great, though. Agree w/ Mkhi over Ozil.

  40. TheBayingMob


    “t’s sad that he wants to move on. I’ll always have a soft spot for him.”

    I agree, one ponders what would have been different without that Shawcross tackle, but we’re not allowed to blame Shawcross because he cried when he walked off the field on the straight red and he loves his mummy …


    “I think the real issue is the loss of control over the narrative. Ramsey will now come under intense scrutiny. His body language, perceived effort, dedication, how hard he goes into challenges… and ultimately, he’s likely going to become a target of fan angst… and that’s a shame.”

    I don’t get this, if he is not part of the plans, why play him at all unless we have serious injury problems? He’s not part of the planning now and it will just be used as shop window time for Aaron. I’d leave him in the stiffs until January then see who comes sniffing around, we’ve let his deal run almost all the way down anyway so the idea of maximizing his transfer fee is a dead argument.

  41. Marc


    It’s a difficult one – I don’t want to see Guendozi run into the ground too early but Ramsey’s gone and we need to adapt to that and I just don’t like Xhaka. He’s not a bad player but he just can’t operate at the level the PL requires. I reckon in Italy he’d look a good player but over here he’s a mistake waiting to happen.

  42. Michael24


    Rose and Rahm should have won in the morning session.

    Whatever, to win all the afternoons foursomes was brilliant.

    Sets it up for the weekend.

  43. Guns of SF

    Benching Rambo most likely will not happen. We just dont have anyone else to replace him or experience. Not that Guen or Torr cannot, I also think that we need to market his ass more so we can get more$$ for him.
    I am hoping he does decent, gets some goals, and we fetch something in Jan for him.
    I also sincerely hope that Sven has been doing his homework on who we need in Jan. Get them in quick- God knows we will need new that push in the second half of the season

  44. englandsbest

    Full marks for trying to make sense of something that lacks any kind of sense at all. No way is Ramsay worth anything like £350K a week.

    If this was viewed as serious bargaining by the Club, it’s a clear indication of how badly the Club was run. I say ‘was’ because the architects of the catastrophe must have been Wenger and Gazidis and, thank heavens, the pair of idiots have gone.

    Ozil’s weekly wage packet is close to 20% of average Emirates matchday revenue. If you count only the PL games, it’s closing in on 50%. I stopped spending money on season tickets (or anything Arsena) ages ago but I do feel intense pity for those who do turn up, or buy shirts.

    We should show Ramsay the door and give Ozil to anyone who will take him.

    The doleful dealings of Arsenal must fill us all with despair. But there is one small ray of hope: Emery. The man has done far better than any of us imagined. I know it’s early days, I know the odds are against him, but instead of carping and criticizing we should accept him as our best hope. We love Emery.

  45. Jay

    Bench ozil and tell him its permanent till he moves. His ego won’t be able to handle it, also, brand Ozil will be damaged. He may then move for slightly lower wages. Either way, I can’t see any club in the world taking on his wages and paying a transfer fee. Not going to happen. I’ll take £0 all day long if it gets him out the club.

  46. TheBayingMob

    Guns of FS

    “I also think that we need to market his ass more so we can get more$$ for him.
    I am hoping he does decent, gets some goals, and we fetch something in Jan for him.”

    Ye now you see, I understand the sentiment and the argument, but I don’t get it. If there’s been a strong enough argument to withdraw the contract offer now, then he’s gone. The idea that anything he will do between now and January that affects his xfer fee is misplaced, and I think any difference would be negligible. His skillset and worth are pretty much established. We can make do with what he brings to the team until January IMO but if he’s played and that’s deemed the best thing for results, fair enough, whatever.

    I totally agree on the hope that Sven has been doing his homework for this one. That’s what this team was put in place for, and this is a good test for them …

  47. Pierre

    Until Emery discovers the right balance up front then it is impossible to judge individual players .

    Aubamayang and Lacazette i would say have cemented a place in the side due to their goals ,assists and relationship on the field they have created.

    This leaves 2 places up for grabs ,a playmaker and wide right if Emery sticks to the same formation.

    Iwobi,Mhkitaryan,ozil and welbeck will fight for those places and it depends what type of player he’s looking for to fill those positions.

    He could quite easily opt for welbeck on the right and Iwobi as the no.10 as he likes his no.10 to high press with pace and energy and doesn’t seem to regard creativity as top of his list plus welbeck will work up and down the right.

    Alternately,play ozil as the no.10 and Mhkitaryan wide right and they can interchange during the game.

    The way I look at it is ,if you play iwobi/welbeck it will allow bellerin to attack knowing that Welbeck /Iwobi will track back and will be more inclined to cover .

    Play ozil/Mhkitaryan, then bellerin will be leave the defence exposed if he bombs forward……personally if he plays ozil/Mhkitaryan I would rather see lichsteiner at right back as he is less likely to be caught out of position.

    Will be interesting to see how Emery approaches this weekend selection wise.

  48. Jay

    The ramsey contract must’ve been near ozil money. Thankfully someone with half a brain has realised if you pay a player too much money, you can’t get rid if him.
    This contract being yanked and gazidis leaving. More than a coincidence.
    Is this club finally beginning to be run like a professional operation!?

  49. mysticleaves


    for now, that’s the formation we should use. With Miki wide right and Laca through the centre

    Those movies on Israel and Palestine can you repeat their names? I am in the mood.

  50. Guns of SF

    Knowing our luck, we end up playing Ramsey and he picks up an injury that keeps him out for an extended period. We are fucked in Jan.

    I hope that does not happen for Christ sake! So, I am hearing arguments for benching him- to make a statement to Ozil and the rest that we mean business now. I also hear, that playing him, because we might as well since he is still under contract and can offer something….

    Either way, he is off in Jan and that is good business long term

  51. Pierre

    If we continue to play Ramsey there is no way he can give 100% and put himself in where it hurts……one injury and there goes his lucrative contract so,without a doubt he will be protecting himself.

  52. mysticleaves

    I like Ramsey a lot. He’s probably the only Arsenal player of the last decade I cannot hate because the littlest joy I got in this period was mostly all because of him. I have a really soft spot for him and would rather say him do well in our colors than leave.

    That said, I have always believed he won’t make a good AM. The Arteta first year proved that to me. At some times he was tried there and stunk out the whole place. This season has also confirmed that motion.

    For me, if he isn’t trained to be that all action CM that he was in 2012/13 and 2013/14, then he should be sold because he will NEVER amount to anything useful as AM.

  53. Dissenter

    Why do people keep saying “Ramsey is off in January” or to “sell him off in January”.
    We shifted the pendulum permanently in his favor the moment we didn’t push for an exit in the summer.
    I really think people just need to wake up and smell the coffee; He’s leaving on a free. transfer in the summer. He can start talking to clubs abroad come January 1st. Why would be settle for some stupid transfer when he’s almost at the finish line?
    The only thing left is to make the rest of his stay uncomfortable by benching him but that may come across as petty for a player who’s spent his entire adult playing career with his.

  54. Guns of SF

    This is why Sven and Raul need to start discussions with Ramsey team, as to desired destinations so we can shop him in Jan…. or risk not being played at all for the rest of the season or something drastic like that. Lets start talking to other teams- give his agent some options, and see where we land. Its our last straw in this disasterous contact negotioations again

  55. Danny S

    I don’t think Xhaka and Ozil can exist isn’t he same team effectively.

    If Emery is going to insist on Ozil, then play him number 10 with tor and matteo in CM.

    Even tor and Elneny.

    To have 2 physical/defensively incapable players in a pressing set up puts the whole system out of kilter.

    Even xhaka tor and matteo with xhaka in a pirlo type role might work.

  56. Guns of SF

    I can see us getting nailed after Jan if we keep him on the bench. An injury here and there will force us to play him again- thus making us have more egg on the face.
    The dude must be sold in Jan…. we cannot keep him in the team anymore.
    Im leaning more toward us getting rid and getting some new blood in….
    If Milan want to give us 15M- bite

  57. Dissenter

    That’s one way to handle Ramsey
    The other way is to not make him central to match day planning and just keep him around the periphery of the squad.
    Liverpool did it with Emre Caan last season. He still has to keep himself in the shop window so it can be a marriage of convenience.
    Personally, I’ll bring in his replacement in January to allow the player to acclimatize and be ready to go by next season.

  58. un na naai

    Danny s

    You’d play Elneny over xakha?
    Elneny should not be playing for a club like arsenal. He’s just not good enough. He really isn’t a very talented footballer.

  59. El Tel

    I am so happy that Ramsey is leaving. So over rated just like Kosser and Bellend.

    Is it that long ago when we had a Pires or Freddie playing in that position. Sol Campbell at CB and Lauren at RB.

    Whatever Wenger was trying to do after those great players left was total bullshit.

    The one thing I hate though is the comments that Ramsey would have been great working for Ferguson. The big difference is when our players sign foe other clubs they are already great players and do better at teams who have tactical Managers.

    How many Fergiettes moved on to be successful? We have Welbeck for One who is good but never going to be great. Most of His players ended up at Newcastle, Sunderland, Middlesbrough.,Everton and even us. He also didn’t want to lose Ronaldo but Ronaldo wanted a bigger Club.

    Please stop beating up The Arsenal as if they are the only team who have these problems. Even the self professed Biggest team in the World lose their stars when the real big Clubs come calling. The great Ferguson won only 2 CL trophies right? Well that’s great compared to Wenger but He had as many years in the competition as Wenger BUT He had the greatest team in the world. Failure in my eyes. The EPL was a scandal and still is. Load your team with average England players, get the media and football world on your side. Get the FA to gift you games week in week out and there you go. No coincidence that in Football History the champions are more likely going to be from Lancashire. Check it out.

  60. un na naai


    You think Ramsey wants to rot in the reserves for 6 months? I think he’d take a January move
    The ox did. Sanchez could have ran his contract down but opted for the move.
    Rvp too

  61. un na naai

    El tel

    Tell me about it. Cesc, rvp, nasri, sanchez, we’ve had some talented players even when we were sliding down the table but now we have Ramsey. Our player of the year?? Do me a favour. Good riddance i say

  62. un na naai

    So tel

    How many arsenal players left and became better or had better form than they did at arsenal
    Other than cashely I struggle to think of anyone
    Rvp although playing extremely well for United in his maiden season was hitting 35-40 goals a season for the previous two so even he took a step down in quality
    Henry was never the same at Barca
    Same for cesc

    The biggest travesty was we let them leave in the first place and then without a replacement of even 70-80% of the quality we’d sold. It was cool Stan rly watering down the quality of the squad for a soulless stadium that nobody asked for
    They stole our club the day they decided to build that stadium then sell its name to the Highest bidder which was paltry even then.

  63. HillWood

    Do you think he is important enough to the team to pander to him?
    It’s the perfect opportunity for the club to take a stand against all this bullshite

  64. nepGunner

    The best move is to recoup at least something from Ramsey sale in January and utilize that fund to recruit appropriate players at other pressing areas of the squad, namely a pacy winger and an energetic box to box CM with vision and tenacity to quickly transition our attack from midfield to attackers.

    Unai can then try Ozil at the #10 role with Mikhi as ready made alternate if he goes missing. If Ozil doesn’t improve, sell him in the summer.

    I’m liking this ruthless new setup at the club.

    A lot of fear mongers will have to eat their shit pie come end of the season. Up the Gunners!

  65. TR7

    Ramsey off? Good riddance!

    A limited player who can impact games once in a while with his energy and desire but just doesn’t have enough talent to be a very good player on a continuous basis.

    Slow passer of the ball in central midfield , loses the ball too often for my liking, can’t set the tempo of a game or orchestrate play. Yes, he can be more effective in and around the box with his runs and movement but then he doesn’t have the vision and flair to be an all out attacking player either. That nobody knows his best position even after a decade of top flight football says a lot about him.

    I for one don’t care much about his lack of discipline though. In all fairness, he is more defensively capable than Xhaka and Ozil due to his engine and good tackling ability. Overall he has some good qualities but as a package he falls short of the standards required to be a very good midfielder. Torreira is the guy we really needed and his arrival makes Ramsey even more dispensable.

  66. un na naai


    Ozil has already failed
    As Einstein once said “insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome” we’ve done ozil over and over again with the same outcome. Why keep trying? It’s not like Germany were getting anything more out of him. He’s just a shitty bug eyed, earthworm Jim looking bag of shit

  67. un na naai


    He’s a shit version of Freddie Ljungberg.
    Freddie had Ramsey’s traits but he made them count in decisive moments in crucial games consistently and put in a a shift defensively too.

  68. un na naai


    Mkhitaryan in the middle with welbeck wide right for me against our more potent opponents and play ozil only in home games agaisnt lesser sides, if at all.

  69. nepGunner

    Un nai

    I know many have burnt their fingers with Ozil fire, including myself.

    But I want to see Unai sending out Ozil at #10 role with proper instructions. Let’s face it, he’s one of the highest paid player in world football and we can’t afford not to play him, so why not expect Unai to try to him to his vision? He’s useless in right wing leaving our RB completely exposed. A base of two CBs could mitigate some of his lapses.

    Of course the best option would be to flog him along with Ramsey in the January, but somehow I don’t see it possible because of his banter wages.

  70. un na naai

    Mega useless at right wing because if his attitude, not his skill set. He is more than capable of producing form in whatever attacking position he plays but he’s got a shitty jumped up little attitude. The Germans dissed him out and now he pulls the Turk card. How about he takes his big googley, mike wazowski eyes and look in the fucking mirror and sorts his pissy little head out
    Kids around the world would give their right arm to be in his shoes
    He’s one of the luckiest “men” in the world and he walks around as though his best mate just shagged his mum.
    Playing for arsenal in DB’s no 10 no less and stealing £350k a week
    Something about the no10 since Dennis left
    It’s been cursed
    Gallas, JW, now this toss pot

  71. nepGunner

    “Should have let ozil’s contract run down when we had the chance.”


    That would have been some ballsy intent from the club. I guess, loosing another marquee signing in the same time period of loosing Sanchez played a key role in Ozil retention. Never the less, a very detrimental decision for the club.

  72. un na naai


    Yes but we had every opportunity to offer Sanchez the money ozil is on.
    He was nicking 25 goals a season and changing big games for us. Ozil has NEVER ONCE IN HIS ENTIRE ARSENAL CAREER, changed a big game for arsenal. Not once. He’s never turned up during an important game. How the fuck did he get £350k a week???? It’s absolutely insane

  73. Guns of SF

    A team that has the funds and would like to get a push for top 4 in Europe might take a punt on Ramsey to help put them into top 4.
    There will be a desperate team out there that sniffs around come Jan.
    If Rambo wants the money- lets talk to teams that might be able to afford him
    Get the ball rolling now….

  74. un na naai

    As much as you’d all like to, Ozil’s lack of anything close to a performance of merit in decisive games cannot be blamed on wenger or his lack of instruction.

    A player of the supposed caliber of ozil should show up at least a handful of times in 5 years

    Not fucking once. Not even the odd glimpse
    Literally every time a big side rolls in he rolls out. He’s a fucking fraud.

  75. nepGunner

    Un nai

    I’m crystal clear on your thought process re Ozil. Your last comment echoes the frustration of many here, including my own.

    Maybe I’m just hoping against hope for him to come good and be that player of supreme vision unlocking opposition defence time and again for us, that we all hoped he would become when we signed him from Madrid.

    He’s truly one of the biggest regrets in recent Arsenal history.

  76. nepGunner

    Un nai

    I didn’t like Wenger during his last 10 years with us but I understand what you are hinting at.

    However, I do find Wenger culpable to some extend for Ozil’s laissez-faire attitude. I don’t think Wenger gave him enough instructions on his positional responsibilities. That doesn’t exempt Ozil from his responsibilities or his dog shite attitude though. I’m just saying, maybe a sterner manager could have reigned Ozil abit better from the get go and moulded him abit better in terms of his attitude and made him more accountable for his on field efforts.

  77. Caligooner

    That group wouldn’t have thrived with Klopp or anyone else.

    They all spend too much time being injured to be good.

    Walcott and Ramsey were the only decent pair. One can score occasionally and provides nothing else and the other will be gone in a couple months.

    Don’t even get me started with Ox and Jack. Could have been world beaters if they could stay healthy but such is life at Arsenal.

  78. un na naai


    Maybe. I doubt it. If that were the case then you’d get ozil at his best sometimes right? Not never. And if it’s all wenger then why did the club sanction a £350k a week contract endorsed by a man they were giving serious consideration to sacking? Surely someone at the club must have said, hold on here, how much does ozil want?? Fuck that. Tell Arsene and Mesut they can swivel. Let the bug faced creep walk. Him and his tiny weird little mouth

  79. un na naai


    You literally just contradicted yourself in that tiny little post. You’ve beat marko’s record of 48 words anyway
    Well done

  80. Guns of SF

    We were getting shafted by both Ozil and Alexis at the same time. Poor results and Wenger out all over the place. Ivan and team, decided to save face- and make Ozil the loyal superstar and paid him through the nose- effectively destroying us for years. Wenger of course would approve anything of his babied superstars. He could never take the glasses off to see what reality really was .

    Now Ivan is gone, Wenger gone, Rambo to be gone, and we still have Nozil

    Getting rid of him would really get the Wenger stench out of the team.

    Cant wait for Emery to start fining him for his sick days

  81. Michael24


    Sorry, but all these players would have benefited from a top coach and a progressive working environment.

    Under Wenger they were never going to fulfill their true potential, as has been proven.

  82. Michael24

    Once Sanchez made his mind up to leave ,Ozil used his pending departure as a bargaining tool, because he knew nobody else wanted him.

    Both players made massive financial gains from their actions whilst, AFC (specifically Wenger and Gazidis) , showed stupidity to the highest order.

    Whatever way you look at things, we screwed up big time.

  83. Atid

    Mourinho is rumoured to want ozil and Ramsey. Let’s do another swap deal and take two players off him that he don’t want in return pogba and bailly.

    Then we can bench xhaka and mustafi ahead of summer transfers.

    Scrap this no. 10 thing, go back to 442 which was always our most successful formation. Torreira and Pogba would be our new petit/vieria. Niles on the right miki on the left. Like parlour Ljungberg pires oversea rocastle did so successfully before them

    Leichinstener Sokratis bailly monreal
    Niles torreira Pogba mkhitaryan
    Lacazette Aubameyang

    Cup side
    Bellerin mustafi holding kolasinac
    Smith-rowe Guendozi xhaka iwobi
    Welbeck nketiah

    Also sell this winter if we can

    We might be able to take in 20m for that bunch if we are lucky and if we can buy sarr/pavon/pepe with the money personally I would buy all 3, then give Welbeck another 2 year contract if he wants one if not add him to that list as well. Give Cech
    another 1 year contract, on the understanding it will probably be his last if not add him to that list and get a few quid while he is playing well.
    No need to even replace xhaka and mustafi in the summer as willock chambers mavropanos will be ready by then.

    As for the topic the old Brit pack might be dead, but in okonkwo, daley-campbell,
    osei-tutu, holding, chambers, ballard Saka, gilmour, willock, smith-rowe, nelson, amaechi, could, nketiah, john-jules all waiting to burst through

  84. David Smith

    Although I have tried to give him the benefit of the doubt, mainly for getting rid of Wenger, this latest episode involving Ramsey suggests Ivan Gazidis is as culpable as Wenger for such matters.
    And it is Stan who gave Gazidis, Wenger and any number of other failures a free run for years. The man is a master in letting his clubs drift.
    Just saying.

  85. Joe

    Think god ramsey is gone

    Another player from the wenger sent on his way.


    The stench is slowly drifting away




    A few more players out. A bunch new in.

    Getting a proper replacement in for ransey and a winger this jan and this team will be 100x better off than with Ramsey

  86. China

    If utd are stupid enough to take ozil and Ramsey and cash and give us Pogba and Bailey then it would be a hilarious coup

    My dream this winter would be bailey Pogba and rabbiot in, Ramsey ozil out

    It’s far beyond the realms of the reality but it would be our best January in decades. One can dream

  87. zimmie2652

    Cali, you did catch Ox last season, right? He looked like a totally different player once joining Pool. In not even half a season under Klopp he was already playing heaps better to what he ever threw out on the field in an Arse uni.

    Please enlighten us more on how that group would not have been better served growing up and developing in a better environment with an actual competent medical staff and superior coaching instead of a decade under Wenger and his minions.

    Hell, it isn’t like Arsenal can even really claim they developed any of them to begin with since they all spent most of their formative years elsewhere and Wenger swooped in hopes of simply polishing them off.

    I guess what I am really trying to say through all this is, if anything Arsenal and Wenger failed/held many of them back from ever actually reaching their ceilings through being content with mediocrity. Unfortunately for some of them and us, they & Arsenal held onto the dream for way too long to accurately measure that now though. Ox was smart to get out when he did and hopefully can still have himself a very solid career.

  88. Dream10

    Wenger got the most out of our young players. Walcott scored over 100 goals for the club despite having a limited skillset.
    Ramsey has had good seasons here.
    The rest has had a relatively decent career.
    CL football and quality pay

    Wenger’s problem was the evaluation of the players level. He rated some of our players as 9/10 when they were closer 6-7/10. Difficult to compete with limited talent over 45-50 matches per season.

    I’m not big on tactics. Ultimately players make the difference. Don’t agree with the idea that players would have developed into world beaters if they were at other top UK clubs. With the exception of Ramsey, the rest of the British Core would likely have not made it at other CL clubs.

  89. gonsterous

    Ramsey can leave in Jan or bench him till the summer if he doesn’t budge. But I have a feeling, he’s going to fold and sign what ever we offer. The agent May want the money but ramsey likes arsenal FC (I may be wrong). Either way I hope he leaves arsenal. I did like ramsey more than Jack though.

    Maybe ramsey will turn into a decent player at a new club where he doesn’t know what the manager expects. Here at arsenal he’s too laid back and just does what he wants.

  90. TR7


    ‘I’m not big on tactics. Ultimately players make the difference. Don’t agree with the idea that players would have developed into world beaters if they were at other top UK clubs. ‘

    Dream as always on the money.

    We have had people making excuses for Xhaka, Ozil, Theo, Ramsey and Bellerin saying how they would turn in to top players under a different manager. That Wenger gave these player a long rope was the problem, not that he could not extract more out of them.

  91. gonsterous


    tactics and man management are almost the same thing. Of course xhaka and co would benefit from getting instructions as what to do during the game instead of the express yourself tactics from wenger. So yes, these players would benefit from tactics and instructions. They would also benefit from personnel around them.

  92. Guns of SF

    Or just tell ramsey that if he plays really really well, he can leave in January, or rot in the bench until summer.
    I dont know… he has to have some sort of ultimatum or we just start benching his now

  93. China

    TR7 but all of those and many more like wilshere, senderos, djourou, eboue actually already demonstrated a capacity to play at a very high and in a few cases top level

    Senderos and eboue were mainstays in our CL run. It wasn’t really a fluke. They were extremely talented kids in a team surrounded by top talent to guide them and with great coaching (keown). Wilshere as well, imagine spending hours a day with cesc. It wasn’t a fluke that he had one awesome season. His ceiling was actually that high and he demonstrated a capacity to reach it. The problem in some of these cases was absolutely that as the top quality players around them disappeared and the coaching disappeared they were left with absolutely no guidance. Wilshere was being set up to be the long term replacement to one of the world’s best CMs and as a teenager he was every bit capable of coming close to cesc’s level. But due to a range of factors including injuries, piss poor attitude, lack of guidance, top players around him disappearing to better teams, a huge salary before he’d really done enough to earn it, an acceptance of mediocrity to the extent that the entire club management system up to the owner were not even slightly bothered about winning or losing.

    You’re telling me that wilshere and co were not screwed by that? When wilshere was 18 he wasnt just a fantastic talent, he could dominate games. He knew where he was and what he needed to do. 10 years on and the guy is just kind of drifting through games, no one even knows if he’s a 10,8 or something else. Jack wilshere and Aaron Ramsey know less about themselves and football at 28 than they did at 19. I am not kidding

  94. China

    The proof is in the pudding that most of our best young talents have become worse in the prime years of their careers than they were shortly after they arrived as kids

    How is that possible if they never had a high ceiling?

  95. Guns of SF

    Both players had a lot of upside and I agree with your assessment. jack is done though. How many surgeries has he had in his career??? Im afraid his career is done at this level and perhaps fully.
    Rambo, has a another 3 years or so before he wanes. My problems with him, are that he is undisciplined, slow as hell, slows the play when he gets the ball, and he is just plain fucking slow. He is like a slight upgrade to Ozil, which shows how bad Ozil is.
    We need fast, youth, and a dynamic midfield for the future. At least with Barca lite team, we had some really good technical players. TR7, Hleb. Cesc, Nasri, Song

    That team was awesome with the ball. ….. we cannot even match that midfield now

    Anyhow, Rambo is a holdover from another time. He needs to go. Best of luck… seems a nice guy but got to go

  96. Frankie Coffeecakes

    New attitude at Arsenal, I like what i am seeing. The Young British core could have been good, under anyone other than Wenger who was proven out in the end to be a career killer. Arsenal are now rid of two-thirds of its internal cancer, Wenger and Gazidis. Not going to rid themselves of Kroenke so best hope that he remains silent.

    Better days ahead despite carting the massive wage liabilty and eternal gift known as Ozil from Gazidis and Wenger. Ramsey equally would have been another wage killing liability so its in the clubs best interests to move on and focus on a rebuild.

    Patience remains key and it looks like thats what they will do.

  97. China

    If you put a 20 year old Eboue, 19 year old jack, 19 year old Ramsey and 18 year old Walcott in this squad we would be a 15-20% better team than we are

  98. TR7


    Wenger in my view was not good at identifying good center backs and developing them. So I will take your point on Senderos and Djohorou although injuries and lack of focus/desire were also important factors.

    I don’t blame Wenger for failed careers of midfielders and forwards who played under him except in the case of Arshavin. If anything he was very good at identifying technically sound midfielders and playing to their strengths.

    Wilshere’s career was ruined by injury. Sharp turns and a great engine were the main ingredients of Wilshire’s game. Injuries debilitated his ability to make those sharp turns and as a result post his injury he could not beat or evade his markers. He often lost the ball while running in to opposition midfielders. His movement was always a tad stifled. It was not a free flowing Wilshere that we saw glimpses of in the early days of his career. Besides, another injury was always round the corner in his case. If he played football continuously, there was always a possibility that he could get his mojo back but that never happened.

  99. Guns of SF

    Diaby was the one player that I feel could have been a world beater. Talk about an utter disappointment. The fact Wenger kept giving him new contracts was ludicrous.

    If this kid stayed healthy, I wonder what we would have had. A combo of Vieira, Pogba and something else.

    Oh well… he is a rich man with a bad ankle. cant feel too bad for him

  100. un na naai


    Spot on. But I still don’t think Wilshere is finished at a very high level.
    Maybe not operating at the very very top but the level below. He could play in any midfield in the world still. You dont lose that ability.
    It breaks my heart. Such a lovely player to watch. Rvp was my other favourite. Killed me when he left.

    On the United swap, nota chance. I can’t ever see them letting pogba go in a swap deal. They have invested over £100m in him. They would surely need to recoup that.
    We’d habe to at least part with some cash but he would never join us anyway. Even if we could afford him his ego is too big. I’m not sure I’d actually want him. His smug face irritates the life out of me and his girly high cheek bones do too.

    Guns of sf

    Didn’t was another favourite of mine. Loved watching him effortlessly flick the ball over someone’s head, chest it down and gallop through midfield. So powerful too. For a gangly guy he had some strength

    Another one was Eduardo. That fella…..beautiful football player. That 08-11 team was stacked full of quality. We could have dominated the world with that team had we kept it together injury free. We were 4 points off the title in 08 with a side full of kids. Some of them not that great. Had we kept the better elements of that side together with a couple of experienced additions in midfield and at the back I really feel we would have gone to the top again.

    Their football was better than the invincible. A real thing of beauty and I’d go so far as to say it was on a par of not better than Barca at times.

  101. Dream10

    Was referring more to the British core.


    We’re in an era where attacking football is being rewarded. Eboue would be very useful right now. Having creative/outlets at fullback is more valuable than defense first
    types, especially in the PL. It allows us to play 15 yards higher and not get trapped in our own final third. Bellerin gets too much stick from the Arsenal fanbase imo. He’s often our only consistent outlet against all opposition. Monreal is quality, but he is not elite on the ball like Marcelo or physically special like Mendy. Mkhitaryan, Iwobi, Ozil, Ramsey drift in when they play wide and don’t really have top pace to get in behind.

    Aubameyang (small sample size)and Alexis (bigger sample size) rarely make dangerous runs/dribble into goalscoring areas away from home against top opposition. Alexis in particular was regularly called the best player in the PL by media when he would run riot against a West Ham or a Palace. The following week we would go to a Spuds/Liverpool/City side and he rarely made a threatening run/dribble.

    Hope we sign pacey wide players at full back/wide forward areas who can be goal contributors.

  102. un na naai

    Coffee cakes

    I make China right on that
    Had he supported and nurtured those players with players to guide them
    And teach them I feel we would have seen a far improved project youth.
    He wasn’t adding players of quality
    Back in 08 we still had massive pulling power and could have signed top shelf players had we been able to afford it. We really should have bought a top keeper and a couple of experienced, commanding centre halves once Campbell left. And a replacement for Gilberto. The rest of the team was stocked full of wonderous talent.
    Hleb, rosicky, cesc, rvp, Eduardo, van Persie, Eboue, Walcott,, diaby, Wilshere and Ramsey.
    All of those players were top top level in their prime. Walcott needed to be played as a striker with a supporting striker or at least a no10. Not an ozil type but actual support al la bergkamp or RvP. And then you have the ones that got away, ibrahimavic, Ronaldo, Ronaldinho. Fuck me. How did we go from the invincibles to this so quickly? How did almunia stay in goal for so long?

  103. un na naai


    I disagree
    Sanchez scored some beauties against city United and Chelsea and really turned up in those games. Yes he was something of a soloist on the field but you can’t say he didn’t apply his talent against the better sides. I’d say he was our only threat in those games more often than not

  104. Dream10

    Un na naai

    I’m referring to away matches.
    Don’t think he scored away at Old Trafford/Etihad/Anfield/Stamford Bridge/White Hart Lane for us in the PL

  105. Michael24


    Super duper post!

    All these players underachieved under Wenger, of that there is no doubt.

    The whole regime from the coaching environment, the in game tactics, the incompetent medical team, the man management of the players etc, was aan utter disgrace.

    Wenger was culpable for all of this shite. Weasel Gazidis, on the other hand, was culpable for sitting on his fat ass and letting Wenger get away with it, whilst Stan just sat back because he knew no fudging better.

    All it needed was one person, even it was one of the bloody tea ladies, to go to Stan and say ” Mr Kroenke you do know that our club is badly run and has become the laughing stock of world Football. Would that be one lump or two in your tea sir”?

    All in all, one humongous cock-up.

  106. Frankie Coffeecakes

    @Un na naai – There will always be a lot of Would Have’s and Should Have’s associated with Wenger. Fact remains, Wenger had great opportunity to do something very special with the youth of the club. Fact also remains, he blew that great opportunity. Reasons? Whats done is done and his legacy is what it is, time will reflect it appropriately in due course.

  107. China

    Fair points tho I wouldn’t call the criticism against Bellerin over the top

    I am ok with attacking wing backs but you have to do a job defensively. If you create a goal at one end and cost a goal at the other, what’s the point in it all?

    Bellerin has been either directly or indirectly involved in loads of our defensive lapses over the last 18 months. 50% or more don’t get fully punished because a lot of opposition aren’t really that good, but the issue is serious

    Early years eboue was really useful bombing up the wing though he was actually very decent defensively too

    Young clichy was another very good defender who could also bomb forward!

  108. China

    Also Sagna was a really class act because he was a fabulously reliable RB but also did forwards and wasn’t slow either

    I’d kill to have 25 year old Sagna in this team

  109. steve

    un na naaiSeptember 29, 2018 08:15:24
    Dream Did he not score in our 6-3 loss against city?


    He most certainly didn’t as he wasn’t even an Arsenal player at that time lol.

  110. Michael24

    Walcott scored two and Mertesacker got the third in our 6-3 defeat at the Etihad.

    Mertesacker was culpable for 4 of the goals conceded.

    Wonderful player!

  111. Dissenter

    Unai na
    How are you doing?
    How do you explain away the fact that Westham started thriving as soon as Wilshere got injured.
    That FACT isn’t lost on everyone else.

  112. gonsterous

    I remember, I was at school when sagna made his debut. We got to watch PL games in our wardens flat. I just laughed my head off at his hair, but he impressed me and I had a big hard on for Wenger for finding him. lol

  113. grooveydaddy

    Sanchez scored at the Etihad in a meaningless 2-2 draw in the 2nd to last game of the season.

    He also scored at the shithole to bring us level at 2-2 after Coquelin got sent off, if I remember correctly?