Emery brings in 5 man entourage, here’s why that’s a very odd move (long read)

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Let’s crack into a delicious portion of hot off the press Gooner news.

Bernd Leno: What does it mean?

Arsenal were rumoured to have a £50m budget this summer. We just dropped £25m on a keeper. Petr Cech might take the #1 jersey, but it’s hard to see past Leno starting. Cech’s form has been shoddy, he can’t play with the ball at his feet and at 36, it’s clear his reactions aren’t what they used to be.

I think the legendary Czech will stay on for his experience and winnertivity. Leno didn’t move at 26 to be an understudy. I would certainly expect David Ospina to be moved on. He’s never been good enough, he showed how poor he is with a miserable World Cup opener against Japan. It gave me heart to watch Chezzer also gaff hard against Senegal. He’s another keeper who was massively overrated by our fans.

What I love about Leno; outside his ability to make the unexpected saves Arsenal fans have been starved of, is the new layer of options he brings to us defensively. Hoof won’t be the only option, allowing us to transition the ball up the pitch from the back, we’ll also have a keeper who can break the lines with smart passing, as well as a sweeper option if we need it. He’s going to be very useful if he can regain the form that had everyone fluttering eyelashes at him 2 seasons ago.

Also worth noting that form and scouting for keepers is super fucking hard. Confidence and system plays such a massive role in performance. Look at Richard Wright and Jordan Pickford. Both looked exceptional for shite sides, then couldn’t cut it when they made the move up. Ter Stegen, on the other hand, went from relative unknown to winning a lot of big trophies at Barca.

I remember reading Dave Seaman talk about the difference between big and small clubs. He basically said when you play at a big club, it’ll be freezing, you’ll have seen none of the ball all night, then BANG, there’s a 90th minute top corner strike you need to deal with.

His bad season at Leverkusen isn’t the issue, it’s whether he has the focus to make it at an elite side (if all goes well this season and we become elite). Is he Oblak or Karius? Let’s pray this expensive gamble is a lucky one.

Jack Wilshere: how do we feel?

We all feel sad. Jack was the kid that curled home that beauty against West Ham for the kids. The real deal. He was the pugnacious tough guy who took it to Barca. He was our Gazza. Sadly, Wenger blew his body by overplaying him, then the injuries set in and he never recovered.

I can see the difficulties for Jack. Growing up in the spotlight of the English press must have been a nightmare. As with all our Project British players, Wenger never really settled on a position for Jack. The player wanted to play at the base of our midfield like he did for England, Wenger thought he was a #10 or a right midfielder. If you can’t own a position, it’s very hard to develop. I also heard the player wasn’t exactly a fan of Wenger’s ways, which can’t have helped.

It’s difficult to see Jack Wilshere go when we’re offering players like Xhaka new deals. Outside fitness, I can’t see anything the Swiss does better. But it is what it is. We can’t keep waiting on potential, and when money is tight, you have to make important decisions and the club has made their choice.

Question is, who replaces him? Kike Marin has us in for Banega, which feels like a very solid stop gap replacement. However, the Spanish journo also comments that the Argentine is seen as a cheaper option to Torreira, which would be really disappointing. I mean, firstly, Banega is a centre mid, not a defensive mid. Secondly, I’d much rather be investing £20m more in a 22-year-old, than a 29-year-old. Also, Banega broke his leg getting run over by his own car. That’s Gabriel levels of dimness.

Are we really doing this?

Emery: Bringing the band back together

Arsenal confirmed to the press that Jens was off, along with Boro, Peyton, and Banfield. To replace them, the club has basically let Emery bring his entourage with him from PSG.

‘Emery worked alongside Carcedo, Villanueva, strength and conditioning coach Julen Masach, goalkeeping coach Javi Garcia and video analyst Victor Manas at his previous clubs and all of them have made the move over to London Colney.’

This move is really interesting. In the blur of excitement around how well Ivan and his new team are doing, the fact that our CEO let the head coach bring in 5 of his mates without question is amazing. The club is going back on its plan to control the backroom infrastructure, instead, opting to give the new manager a huge amount of power with these hires. Really, when they didn’t need to. Arsenal had all the leverage with the Emery hire. He needed us more than we needed him.

The oddest move has to be in the performance department. I wrote last summer that the hiring of Darren Burgess was really weird as we already had Shad Fosysthe. One is listed at the Head of Performance on the website, the other the Director of High Performance. That’s a cluster fuck right there. Now we have a strength and conditioning coach coming in who is the manager’s confidant.

HOW DOES THAT WORK?

The Director of High Performance will have the report into the manager’s mate by the looks of things. Imagine flying halfway around the world to make an impact in your new job, only to find out you’ll be reporting into somebody who sneaked in the back door because he had mates in high places. It’s the fitness equivalent of Gerard Houllier and Roy Evans sharing duties back in the day.

Broader question here, did the club interview all of the new appointees? Or is it just a wink and nod from Emery that has them in new jobs? More importantly, do any of them speak English? This extract comes from an interview with Emery.

‘Luckily, the French I learned when I was younger helped me out a bit! Of course, I don’t fully master it. One day, I heard Rafael Benitez say that he wasn’t able to transmit everything he wanted to say in English, and that surprised me because he was fluent in English and that he had been living there for 15 years. But he was missing that small percentage which would have allowed him to connect perfectly with his players.

My language proficiency in French was enough to explain myself and to be understood. Of course, one of the most important elements for a coach to succeed lies in his ability to communication and connect with this players. On an emotional level. Furthermore, I tend to talk a lot in the dressing room, even if I brought down the intensity of talks to 60%. But I was able to say what I wanted to in French thanks to the two years of French I had studied in Hondarribia when I was young. My talks with the team were done in entirely in French, and I think that we understood each other and that the language wasn’t a barrier for us.’

How do the club manage the language barriers? Does Emery do what Pep G did, and hire in a Premier League player who can speak Spanish and think at the right level? A Santi like object would have been perfect, but maybe someone like Cesc Fabregas who could end up leaving Chelsea this summer, and has gone on the record to say he’d love to return to Arsenal as a coach, could return in some capacity?

Alternatively, Emery could keep it simple and go with the team he’s kept with him throughout his career. If he chooses that path, that’ll mean the Spanish speaking players will be elevated to leadership like positions. Nacho Monreal, who I think is an exceptional player and human might relish that role. Hector Bellerin might enjoy that as well. The revenge of Lucas Perez could see him return and wreak havoc on the club that dismissed his talents.

I keep talking about the language challenge because the first three months of the job are so important. This paragraph helps give context to what I’m getting at.

One day, Jorge Valdano said, “At Barcelona, the leader is Messi. At Real Madrid, it’s Florentino Perez. At Atletico, it’s Diego Simeone.” A player, a coach and a president. A different kind of leader every time. I know when I’m the main person responsible, and when I’m not. It’s a process that a coach has to live with and internalise, and that he assimilates with time and experience. In every club, you have to know what your role is and what role you have vis-a-vis the rest of the group.

I am of the opinion that PSG’s leader is Neymar. Or that he is currently becoming it. Neymar came to PSG to be the leader, to go through this process to someday become the best in the world. It’s a process that will require a bit more time in order to consolidate this position. At Manchester City, Pep is in charge. At PSG, Neymar has to be.

I think that I managed the dressing room quite well. My greatest satisfaction was that the team didn’t sink, after losing against Barcelona or Real Madrid. A few weeks ago for example, we had a horrible first half against Saint-Étienne, but after the break, with one player sent off, we reacted well and managed to equalise. One of my staff members told me, “Unai, today the players showed that they are with you. If that weren’t the case, we would have lost.”

The notion that players can end you is something new to Arsenal fans. This is something Emery is going to be acutely aware of when he comes to Arsenal. The players at our place couldn’t end Arsene, he was an immovable object. The last two seasons, they pretty much-downed tools, yet the manager was given full backing by the board.

Emery won’t have that luxury. He has a two-year deal, with Arsenal retaining the option to keep him on with a 3rd year if he smashes it. If the players don’t like what they see, or they don’t react well to the violent shock to the system that’s coming, the new man could be in trouble, very quickly.

That’s why he has such a tough job on his hands. Sure, there’s a lot of low hanging fruit to be had, but only a fool would try and harvest it all in one go. If you’ve been in any sort of transformational role at a company, where you’ve taken over a bad team (or watched a bad team taken over), you’ll know that the secret is to work with the people you have and slowly implement your ideas and changes. The dick swingers who wade into big organisations and try to enact an overhaul in weeks, usually come out with egg on their face. They alienate the people working for them, and often those watching in. They miss the good bits and end up making swift exits with their tails between their legs.

Emery is going to have to play a masterful game. He needs to show the board he’s making progress, at the same time, he needs to show the players and backroom peeps he’s a team player. That’s why it’s so interesting the club let him bring in a large backroom team of his mates, versus giving him a team they owned to work with him (the modern structure Ivan promised). If you let him bring in two people, he’s forced to work in a system, if you give him 5 people, that’s a fully formed unit everyone has to abide by straight away.

That’s great if these new guys are easy to work with, troubling if not. As I said the other day, Arsenal are closer to PSG than they are to Sevilla. This excerpt kind of talks through the basic differences.

As a coach, I had the habit of showing players what steps to follow, similar to controlling someone with a joystick. Except that when you come to PSG, you realise that the players are the ones who make the most effective decisions. One day, I told Neymar that, “There are match situations we have worked before the game, but in your case, you imagine those situations by yourself.”

Let’s start from this very basic principle: coaching is very, very, very difficult. From there, coaching excellent players is even more difficult. Why? Because being convincing is the most fundamental thing to coaching: the players have to believe in you. Whether they believe in you because you have won many trophies, because you are a great coach, because you are imposing, because everything you say ends up happening… Whatever the reason may be. But they have to believe in you. And in big teams, the players expect exactly that – for the coach to not to mess up.

That’s also what they expect in a more modest club, but they are also aware of the larger margin of error and that bad results can happen more often. That is not the case with a big team. You have to be right even on the finest of details: your work, your preparation, your principles, your way of speaking, when you decide to speak. Everything is a bit more difficult. Maybe from an external perspective, you may think that you can work less, but it’s the opposite. You have to speak up at the right time, which can help your team win. In a team like PSG, where winning is expected, that is what gives meaning to your actions and what you say. In smaller teams, the results can vary. Here, it’s not the case. You almost always win, and that’s what forces you to hit your target at the right moment. Every time.

Arsenal isn’t PSG, but we still have exceptional players with big egos. Ozil won the World Cup. Aubameyang is one of the best hitmen in Europe. Lacazette is the top scorer in the Europa League. Ramsey thinks he’s Roy of the Rovers. How will Emery deal with a less talented version of PSG, with the same types of egos?

It’s going to be fascinating. I’m too wrapped up in the excitement to worry too much about the politics of the Arsenal training ground, but you have to pay attention to the amount of change going on, how it’s being implemented, who it’s being implemented to, and the role communication is going to play in making those first three months work.

Anyway, I hope you enjoyed that. Have a great day!

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Goonah

I was just thinking Red needs a cnut and ur a big one, thats all

PessimisticPat

I’m not thinking resale value age or anything this summer, only if a player improves our squad and I think banega does. He’s clearly better than niles or elneny. Plus as Charlie said he’s worked with emery before. I see no downside.

Receding hairline

@ Wenger eagle

This bunch of bottlers would not have qualified for this tournament if Messi didn’t have his ban overturned

A whole generation of Argentine players turn up for games knowing fully well that no matter how bad they play the focus will be on Messi after the game

No wonder Messi looks miserable in an Argentine shirt… Bunch of losers the lot of them.

TR7

Lol it’s getting silly here.

Portugal have a great balance in their side. In Euro they demonstrated they could completely shut the shop with excellent defending and attack well on counterattack.

Messi is playing in a dysfunctional team – horrible GK, clueless defenders and useless midfielders. Heck the manager doesn’t know what he is doing either. He barely got the ball from mids in good areas. Ronaldo hasn’t done anything special himself except one great free kick.

Bamford10

Goonah is clearly Northerngoon / Aubergine. Back yet again.

This will make certain people here very happy, but I think that is going to have to be it for me on Le Grove.

I have had a lot of fun here over the past five years and I have learned a lot from many of you, but I am tired of dealing with all of the abuse and unpleasantness.

Best wishes to all of the decent guys here. Cheers.

Paulinho

WE – Messi needs to be a free and play with freedom to execute his type of game well. The pressure he feels for Argentina is poison to his style of play, and we just see a stilted rigid version of the Messi that we against Villarreal at the Camp Nou. Ronaldo’s game is less susceptible to being affected by pressure. More basic and simple so less can go wrong with it. As said, he has more to his bow in terms of how to impact a match, and even that knowledge probably helps him relax. Messi knows his dribbling… Read more »

WengerEagle

Agree with much of that Vicky but Messi isn’t blameless himself either.

And it’s more a recent thing, but now that he’s not at his physical peak it is possible to shut him out whereas beforehand it was virtually impossible.

PSG, Juventus, Roma ties in CL in recent seasons he’s been well belownhis best.

Pressure that Messi and indeed LeBron are carrying is unfair though, Maradona and Michael Jordan themselves were never as burdened with such immense and constant pressure.

TR7

Fabregas on #ARG: “They play with 5 attackers and 5 defenders – as an opposition midfielder this is exactly what you want.”

He knows his football.

azed

Messi flops at the biggest of stage again, Ronaldo far and away the better player

Messi carried Argentina to the final of a world cup.

Goonah

YES!!!!!!

Ifeeel i won the WC

Fck me what a relief not having to read his comments!!!
Wooohooo

gambon

Messi has got to a WC final.

Ronaldo hasn’t.

Messi therefore a much better player.

Receding hairline

Bamford your self pity is vomit inducing
You are a grown man.. Act like one.

No one is meant to worship you here.. It’s give and take.. You only seem interested in the giving part but not the taking

Sanmi

Here’s what I don’t like about messi vs CR7 argument, it’s always knee jerk comments. CR7 that was anonymous for 3/4 of a season, produces only against Juventus and 2 matches in world cup, suddenly he’s better?
Let’s be real, he’s no where near messi. Messi took his team to world cup final once. CR7 will probably never do it.

WengerEagle

Messi is undoubtedly a better player than Ronaldo.

But the former has plenty of advantages over Messi and depending on the team you’re building can be more valuable.

Goonah

Problem with Messi I have is the doping
Pumped up with growthshormones at mesa made him a freak

Been cool to watch but even playingfield……naaaaah

salparadisenyc

Messi vs Ronaldo drones one, one could argue Ronaldo has won the Euro where as Messi’s Argentina have not won the Copa, a less competitive competition if were honest.

Both epic players, but Ronaldo clearly on better form at moment.

Victorious

Binford nooooooooo

don’t do that,you can’t let a bunch of strangers put you away from making comments about a club you support

man up and give as much as you take and halt being a crybaby ,ffs where’s my source of amusement gonna come from now,#Binfordstays

TR7

WE

Yes agreed easier to mark Messi out of the game now than say 3-4 years ago but look what he is expected to do for Argentina -to be a creator, a passer and a goalscorer at the same time while all Ronaldo has to do is be a goal scorer. Ronaldo would fail miserably at doing what Messi is supposed to do.

Carts

Sampaoli is on banter. Honestly, what an utter potatoe that man is.

So that another drab performance by both France & Argentina. France eek a win where Argentina looked disjointed and bereft of ideas.

zeus

Victorious June 21, 2018 20:58:37 Messi flops at the biggest of stage again, Ronaldo far and away the better player who was the plonker that made Argentina favorites for the cup again? lol ******** Simply ridiculous. Messi is head and shoulders above Ronaldo. Its not even close, Messi is FAR superior to Ronaldo and tap in goals and a freekick at the end of a game won’t change that. Its frankly annoying to me that Ronaldo has the narrative because journos are so lazy. If Ronaldo somehow manages to fluke Portugal to a WC like he did with Portugal at… Read more »

gambon

For me there’s no debate who’s better.

Take away their goals and who is the better player?

Messi creates far more, has been the most creative forward the game has seen, the best dribbler in the world, passing ability of an elite central midfielder.

So when you factor back in that they score the same amount of goals, it’s a no brainer.

TR7

Also as for the point about pressure handling

Argentina is billed as a title favorite in every world cup and Messi is expected to do a Maradona. I don’t remember anyone billing Portugal as a favorite or expecting CR7 to lead them to a world cup. So they don’t play under the same pressure and thus the point about Ronaldo managing pressure better doesn’t probably stand.

zeus

gambon June 21, 2018 21:17:38

For me there’s no debate who’s better.

Take away their goals and who is the better player?

Messi creates far more, has been the most creative forward the game has seen, the best dribbler in the world, passing ability of an elite central midfielder.

So when you factor back in that they score the same amount of goals, it’s a no brainer
*******

Exactly. But a treble of Champions League titles and Balondor victories will make people think otherwise.

azed

Messi creates far more, has been the most creative forward the game has seen, the best dribbler in the world, passing ability of an elite central midfielder.

So when you factor back in that they score the same amount of goals, it’s a no brainer.

On point.

alexanderhenry

Cesc has been excellent as a pundit., knowledgable, without being a dreadful bore like Henry.

KAY Boss

individually messi is a great player. but as a captain and leader he’s shit. I think the captaincy should have been given to say, macherano, so as to relieve the pressure of messi for him to be his ‘normal’ self. a draw between Iceland and Nigeria is best suited for Argentina. Banega, meh, might come good if we sign him but it won’t be a spectacular sign rather a solid one. would have preferred a young one like kovacic or Ki from Swansea IMO.

Leedsgunner

Messi is the better footballer.

Ronaldo is the better self promoter, so much so, many people THINK he is the better footballer.

salparadisenyc

Treble of Champion league titles…. CR7 has won the Champions league 5 times and he’s done it on a cold night in Stoke.

Receding hairline

Glad no one is buying the great insight of Ronaldo being a better player simply because he chose to forget every other aspect of the game and become a goal scorer.

Man is an incredible finisher.. Keeps incredibly fit.. But that’s about it.

They operate under different types of pressure because what is expected of Messi no one expects it of Ronaldo

London gunner

To be honest Ronaldo had been playing in a decent Portugal outfit.

The Argentinan team however look a mess, no structure, no idea and no process. It’s like a collection of individuals who don’t know each other randomly turn up at a football pitch.

Messi just needs to be playing as a playmaker not trying to do it all. He should have spent this world cup threading through balls to aguero or dybala.

Argentina should have played a counter attacking game with aguero on the shoulder its not rocket science.

gambon

Sal

Benzema has won 4 x Champs league’s.

Thierry Henry won 1

Who’s the better player?

Victorious

Messi is clearly more talented but has got to mean absolute fcuk all if that’s not translated in the most effective way which is winning trophies and being inspirational and lifting the team’s spirit when your teammates are turds.

CR7 is undoubtedly the better athlete,set piece taker, aerially superb,has more trophies,proved himself in other clubs and other leagues.

Messi has being at Barça all his life, we’d never know if he could cut it at another league,cis he won’t ever move

Maradona,Pele,Zidane etc cemented their legendary by winning stuffs at the international level,CR7 has done that,Messi?……..still waiting

TR7

‘CR7 has won the Champions league 5 times’

Football is a team sport. How can a team’s success be attributed to an individual player ?

gambon

Victorious

Messi has won FAR more trophies than Ronaldo.

Need to know your facts before shooting your mouth off.

salparadisenyc

gambon

Just a bit of banter, if were talking pure footballer Messi clearly wins that but I won’t diminish how effective Ronoldo has been, across two leagues.

He’s taken his chances extremely well, fit into various sides and played the role to maximum effect from Fergie to this ZZ last incarnation.

London gunner

Vic Messi has won more league titles but Ronaldo more cls Ronaldo has won euros Messi World Cup final Messi is actually a better free kick taker has a far higher goal rate. Was superb at fks this season scored way more than Ronaldo and took less. But Ronaldo is far better at penalties. Messi is better on the ball But Ronaldo is better off the ball and in the air. Ronaldo has played in multiple leagues Messi has more to his game playmaker as well as attacker, best dribbler, best passer just as clinical. Chalk and cheese players tbh.… Read more »

Receding hairline

Victorious

Lol at Ronaldo being a better set piece taker… Man wastes set pieces and then gets one right after like 30 wasted ones

The proved himself in other clubs bit too is laughable… Man United under Ferguson and Real Madrid ..you make it sound like he won the premier league with Stoke

Victorious

gambon

personal accolades,not sure I need to paste in stats

TR7

Messi has humiliated English, German, Italian and French teams in CL. Why does he need to move to a different league to prove himself? Best EPL, Bundesliga and Seria A players move to Barcelona and Real Madrid to test themselves against the very best but in Messi’s case he has to do the reverse to prove himself?

zeus

“Messi just needs to be playing as a playmaker not trying to do it all. He should have spent this world cup threading through balls to aguero or dybala.”

Impossible. He’s the most effective striker among strikers that flatter to deceive (Higuain and Aguero). It would only blunt the attack further.

I can’t believe that they haven’t produced a proper midfielder since Veron and Riquelme retired. And to Segway to Arsenal, Banega IS NOT THAT GUY. Might as well keep Wilshere.

WengerEagle

Ronaldo has been the guy in 5 CL wins though, was by far the top goalscorer in all and in 2017 he basically won it by himself.

Messi didn’t play a match past the last 16 in the 2006 CL win.

For the record I’m a Messi over Ronaldo guy but people are doing Ronaldo’s career a major disservice by just calling him a goalscorer.

Redtruth

Messis needs the Harlem Globetrotters to perform on the World stage.

The fraud should of stayed retired.

TR7

‘Lol at Ronaldo being a better set piece taker… Man wastes set pieces and then gets one right after like 30 wasted ones’

Exactly ! Shoots from random angles and positions recklessly in the hunt for individual glory at the cost of team’s good and the moment one actually goes in people go gaga over it. Any other player doing that would be rebuked by his manager .

Redtruth

“For the record I’m a Messi over Ronaldo guy but people are doing Ronaldo’s career a major disservice by just calling him a goalscorer.”

Not just a goalscorer a fuckin diving cheat too.

zeus

‘Lol at Ronaldo being a better set piece taker… Man wastes set pieces and then gets one right after like 30 wasted ones’

****

Doesn’t Ronaldo have the record for failing to convert a freekick in La Liga in something like 80 attempts.

TR7

‘Messi is better on the ball
But Ronaldo is better off the ball and in the air.’

The greatest players are never those who are better off the ball than they are on the ball. In fact those who are a bit limited in their technique and abilities, rely on off the ball stuff.

alexanderhenry

Messi is better than Ronaldo for me. He has pure football ability . The way he moves and the way the ball literally sticks to his feet is pretty unique.
Ronaldo is also technically brilliant , but a lot of his ability comes from his athleticism.
In fact if Ronaldo hadn’t been a footballer he probably would have excelled at athletics, but with Messi, it’s pure football.

Also, some of the greatest footballers who ever played never won the world cup: Eusabio, Pushkas, Di Stefano, George Best, Jimmy Greaves, van basten

salparadisenyc

I’m loving having both Ronaldo and Messi playing at same time historically, my kids will hear about it when there of age to fully grasp the gravity of it.

In the end both have been equally effective in different ways for club and country.

But in there absolute pomp who would I rather have at Arsenal?

Messi, no question.

Redtruth

Ronaldo scoring a clean goal from a freekick is rare.
He used to just kick the valve and hope the ball wobbled in the net.

WengerEagle

Haha Red’s just a miserable bastard that hates all modern players barring his crush Ospina.

Why do you even bother watching when he’s not playing?

Receding hairline

@ Red truth

You really are a piece of work…

Kick the valve and hope it wobbled into the net… That’s Ronaldo’s freekick technique summed up

gambon

Messi created 86 chances in LaLiga last season.

Ronaldo 36.

As I say, take away the goals and there’s no comparison.

Ronaldo would have to outscore Messi by 20 per season to be a better player.

Dissenter

The legend of Leo Messi has been irreparably damaged
Maradona was kicked every 43 seconds in the 1990 world cup yet he dragged Argentina to a world cup final.

Messi is exceptionally brilliant but should never be mentioned in the same vein as Pele and Maradona. He hasn’t earned it.

TR7

Maradona, Zidane, Messi, Cryuff, Iniesta all known for their on the ball ability.

Receding hairline

@ TR7

When Ronaldo actually gets on the ball all he does is look to score.. A defense splitting pass or a good assist is just a last resort

The biggest glory hunter ever to step on a football field.. Harry Kane is catching up fast though

Dissenter

I wonder why people keep under-estimating Ronaldo.
He was the best player in the league for three consecutive season before he left and then went on to push Messi as far as anyone could possible do.

Victorious

clearly too many Messi fanboys on here to even make an interesting and fair debate

Receding hairline

@dissenter

Let the older generation have their Pele and maradona

My generation will always have Messi.. An absolute phenomenon. Winning the World Cup does not a legend make

Dissenter

At the national levle, there’s a bit of a fraud in Leo Messi.
The Messi boys here can argue for as long as you want. He tends to melt under the glare of pressure in the world cup.

I started disliking him when he accepted the golden ball at the last world cup, even though he had no business even being in the conversation.

zeus

While I am a HUGE Messi fan, He will FOREVER be in Maradona’s shadow. Messi’s reality in the National setup is almost identical to Mardona’s in every sense. Maradona won a WC and lost one.

Victorious

compare
Award Ronaldo Messi
Ballon d’Or 5 5
Fifa The Best 2 0
Fifa World Player 1 1
European Golden Boot/Shoe 4 4
World Cup Golden Ball 0 1
Onze d’Or 2 3
Trofeo Pichichi (La Liga top scorer award) 4 4
Champions League top scorer 6 5

Dissenter

Argentina better hope that Nigeria BEAT Iceland tomorrow.
If Iceland wins, it’s lights out because Iceland will play to draw against Croatia in their last game.

Graham62

What a load of crock.

Messi #1.

Why? Because it’s a no brainer.

TR7

‘clearly too many Messi fanboys on here to even make an interesting and fair debate’

Fair debate? You started off with Ronaldo being FAR AND AWAY the better footballer.

Receding hairline

Just like the word fraud should not be mentioned in a conversation regarding Messi

zeus

Dissenter June 21, 2018 21:54:53

At the national levle, there’s a bit of a fraud in Leo Messi.
The Messi boys here can argue for as long as you want. He tends to melt under the glare of pressure in the world cup.

I started disliking him when he accepted the golden ball at the last world cup, even though he had no business even being in the conversation
*********

What would you have him do, chuck it down Sepp Blatter’s throat?

Dissenter

Maradon’s greatest moments for me was the 1990 world cupo.
He was battered, kicked every moment, played every minute with pain shots, riled up the south of Italy against Northern Italy…all to bring Argentina to the final and lose to a controversial penalty.
Maradona and Messi should not be mentioned in the same sentence.

azed

“clearly too many Messi fanboys on here to even make an interesting and fair debate”

Messi and Ronaldo score the same number of goals.
Messi has almost trice the assist Ronaldo has.
Messi completes way more dribbles than Ronaldo

How does Ronaldo become better than Messi?

TR7

‘I started disliking him when he accepted the golden ball at the last world cup, even though he had no business even being in the conversation’

He was himself taken by surprise and wasn’t very enthused about winning it anyway. Had he declined to receive the trophy, it would have been disrespectful to FIFA and the people who picked him to be the best player.

Dissenter

zeus
It just shows him to be a fraud like everyone else. It also shows that there’s some hype about him.

He’s had FOUR chances to win the world cup for Argentina…FOUR FAILS

Maradona won the world cup with a weaker team than Messi has had. He dragged a shit Argentina team to the final of the 1990 WC.

Maintain our composure and stop taking it personal. He’s a FAILURE at the national team level.

azed

compare
Owen won the Ballon D’or Henry never won it.

There’s no way you can compare two of them.

Dissenter

Receding
Four chances in the world cup….FOUR failures at the world cup

Yes. ..It’s okay to use FRAUD in that restricted sense.

He choked in two back-to back Copa Americas for Argentina, losing to Chile on both occasions.

Victorious

33 year old Messi will still take Portugal has far as he could at the ongoing world cup just like he did at Euro16 while 30yo Messi will be on the plane back home.CR7 is also nailed on to retain his FIFA World Best crown…

majority of the posters here prefers the aesthetic players pleasing to the eye football,not shocking to see them head first inside Messi’s arse while CR7 is simply just a born winner

Dissenter

I’me sorry to burst the Messi.manic erotic feelings that you all have.
Four chances…Four fails

Dissenter

Ronaldo could actually win this WC for Portugal.

Victorious

*33 yo CR7

Victorious

Ronaldo could actually win this WC for Portugal.

Amen to that, this would actually shut Messi lovers up for good..BTW

do you see Nigeria getting the 3points against Iceland tmao thus giving us a lifeline?

TR7

Ronaldo didn’t even play the Euro final for more than 20 minutes and yet people give him credit for winning it. Messi dragged Argentina to WC final and was mighty close to winning it ,let down by Higuain. But yeah Ronaldo is a born winner and Messi is a loser.

Redtruth

No doubt Messi will score his usual 40 plus goals for Barcelona next season. Lol

salparadisenyc

Think we can say for a certainly that both Messi and Ronaldo are born winners and Natural born killers.

gambon

Dissenter

As you think international football is the only important arbiter of quality, you obviously think Mario Gotze is better than Messi, Bergkamp & Baggio?

You clearly must think that Angelos Charisteas was a better forward than Shevchenko, Ibrahimovic and Kluivert?

Clearly Marco Matterazzi is a better CB than Maldini & Costacurta.

Receding hairline

Lol at Ronaldo winning the World Cup for Portugal… He wasn’t even the one that won them the euros. They bored everyone to sleep with that negative football while he spent half the time on the turf holding his knee.

Messi doesn’t even have to do anything else to be considered the greatest player of his generation.. He had that tied up long long ago.

Paulinho

There are endless games you can watch Messi and just know he is never ever going to score.

I’ve watched him countless times at Stamford Bridge and he could play there 365 days a year and still never score. The one goal he got there this season was by virtue of being gifted an open goal.

He is a great player but in certain scenarios I can 100% be sure he won’t score. Can’t say that for Ronaldo because he has more string to his bow. Off the ball runs – and goals – are horribly underappreciated by football connoisseurs.

Redtruth

The only way Portugal win the World Cup is if De Gea infects all Keepers with the heebie jeebies.

Redtruth

The real Messi is the one you see playing for Argentina not Barcelona.

Receding hairline

Yea scoring at Stamford bride is the gold standard for greatness. Well a few premier league players are in line for the hall of fame as everyone with a properly tied football boot scored there this season.

Victorious

Messi doesn’t even have to do anything else to be considered the greatest player of his generation.. He had that tied up long long ago.

oh yea I suppose so because Receding of legrove says so
… oh wait….. except the stats says otherwise which at the end of it all its what matters

Uwot?

Was fat Ronaldo better than fake Ronaldo ?anyone?

Victorious

e is a great player but in certain scenarios I can 100% be sure he won’t score. Can’t say that for Ronaldo because he has more string to his bow.”

In summary Cr7 is undoubtedly most of the time a Match winner for club and country while Messi goes missing when push comes to shove just like today

Redtruth

This Messi’s 4th World Cup where he’s been underwhelming (shit). A truly great player would have at least left one memorable moment……..

Receding hairline

@ Victorious

Yeah the stats say Ronaldo is far far away the better player.

Far far far far away

azed

majority of the posters here prefers the aesthetic players pleasing to the eye football,not shocking to see them head first inside Messi’s arse while CR7 is simply just a born winner

We are comparing two individual players and not teams unless you are saying C Ronaldo can win the world cup with the San Marino team.

Redtruth

This is Messi’s 4th World Cup where he’s been underwhelming (shit). A truly great player would have at least left one memorable moment in the tournement.

WengerEagle

Would be amazing if a country of 300,000 can beat one of 200 million people tomorrow.

Absolutely behind Iceland.

Dissenter

gambon
Drop all the names you want to drop
Messi has had FOUR bites at the apple and still can’t win the damn trophy.

He’s a great player no doubt but that asterisk will always blight his record.
He has two attempts at two back-to-back Copa Americas and fell twice to Chile in the final.

Just stating facts.

gambon

Dissenter

So international football only matters for Lionel Messi. No-one else?

Think maybe youre just a bit agenda driven.

azed

“Drop all the names you want to drop
Messi has had FOUR bites at the apple and still can’t win the damn trophy.”

This is also C.Ronaldo’s 4 world cup.

Dissenter

Mauro Icardi would have given Argentina opportunities to play a different way. Instead, Jorge Sampaoli took a lot of ponies that have hardly played in their clubs all year like Icardi and Angel Di Maria

gambon

Oh and if you dont know who Charisteas & Materazzi are…..google is your friend.

Receding hairline

Dissenter already says he dislikes Messi for collecting a golden ball trophy so whatever followed after that should be viewed from that light

He dislikes the player end of.