Ok, we’re in.
No more moaning from me.
The new era is here.
Unai Emery stepped out in his press conference, followed in by Ivan Gazidis who is trying to refocus the club around his leadership. The CEO spoke of extensive interviews, an 8 manager shortlist, as well as the creation of a 100-page dossier given to the board. He also rambled on about becoming the best, something we’ve heard him do many times in the past. This is now his club, he can’t hide behind Wenger anymore, and he’ll have to deliver… well, I say that… he’ll have to at the very least make us a top 4 side again.
I did like his ITK crowd jibe, dropping some Chinese philosopher gold on the chancer crowd.
“Those who know don’t talk. Those who talk don’t know”
It shouldn’t bother me, but watching people harvest followers based on lies is so tragic. This sleight of the managerial hand literally massacred the credibility of about 15 accounts all at the same time. But we know how it goes, like in politics these days, there’s no consequence for alternative facts.
BACK TO EMERY.
“I am thrilled to be joining one of the great clubs in the game,”
“Arsenal is known and loved throughout the world for its style of play, its commitment to young players, the fantastic stadium, the way the club is run.
“I’m very excited to be given the responsibility to start this important new chapter in Arsenal’s history.
His English is piss poor, it was amusing to read Arsenal fans egg him on like a toddler taking his first walk across a living room.
‘Well, his English is better than my Spanish’
Barry, mate, you’re asking for 2 pints of beer and a sausage roll at Linekers in Marbella… not managing a team of precious athletes for £6m a year.
Anyway, let’s hope that good spirit and grace is carried through the dark times this year because there will no doubt be some.
What I liked about Emery, outside his exceptional shock of dark black hair, was his ambition and vision. He stated he’d like the club ‘to be the best team in the Premier League, and the world.’
Well hose me down with sticky can of excitement juice.
He spoke of his plans for the players.
‘In my career I am very demanding for all, demanding of the players also. My idea is to be a protagnosit for all of the match. We play against teams with this personality, and I think the history here shows they love playing with posession of the ball. I like this, and when you don’t have posession of the ball I want a squad very, very intense in pressing. It’s two things that are very important for me. Being a protaganist, posession of the ball, and pressing.’
I’ll eat up words like that all day. Arsene Wenger stopped challenging players, a long time ago. Things were so bad in his final few seasons, he was scared to drop big names and he was totally incapable of rejecting a holiday form from his most expensive player.
Emery is rolling with the 3Ps like some sort of business coach. Can you imagine Ozil reading that? I bet he’s filling out a holiday form for the month of August already.
I like his use of the word protagonist. I don’t want a coach slamming players through tables, but we need one who can envision a path for young players and old, and push players to be better athletes and smarter technicians. It’s clear that a pressing style of football is something the club sought out, it’s a disruptive way of playing and if executed correctly can give lesser players an advantage over stronger ones. Just look at Spurs and how they bat above their average. Look at how Liverpool have taken a fairly average squad to two european finals in three seasons.
The club have hired a partner, that much is clear. I suspect the club wanted Arteta and Nagelsmann becuase they’d easily fit into a Head Coach structure, because they’ll have never known the glory days of a big shot manager who runs it all. When the exec team were searching for experience, they needed someone who needed the job. Perhaps why Carlo, Allegri, Enrique and Conte were passed by. Emery is an experienced name, but a damaged coach. He’ll be hugely grateful for the job, he’ll have a chip on his shoulder from the Paris experience, and he’ll work with the talent around him to prove he’s an elite part of the coaching aristocracy. He’s experienced, but Ivan is still a king maker if this goes well.
The first year is a monumental rebuild. He’ll be working with players, who as Per Mertesacker said, spend 3 hours training, with half of that time spent on their phones. It’s clear Emery is up for the challenge.
“I believe in the players we have here,”
“We can grow with these players and the objective is to work hard with these talented players, to work to be a candidate for all the titles in the future.”
He certainly has a lot of talent at his disposal. I think he has an exciting challenge ahead. He’ll have to work out how to motivate Ozil to care more often, he’ll also have to find a way to deploy him in a modern system, there aren’t a lot of pure #10s these days, so it’ll be interesting to see where he goes.
Aaron Ramsey is an all-action hero because he tries to do everything. Where will he play for Emery? What will his specific role be? Because I doubt a man as tactically strict as our new guy is going to put him in the ‘do what the fuck you like’ position. Up front, he has two world-class finishers. He has the pace of Auba, and the guts of a very exciting player in Lacazette. Is there a plan that involves the both?
We also have some exciting young defenders, so it’ll be fun to see who makes the cut. Bellerin is an exceptional talent, Chambers started to look a player at the end of last season, we know Holding can boss Diego on his day, and then we have Mavrapanos and Bielek.
I am particularly excited that we now have a group of coaches who can develop AMN, Nketiah, Willock and Nelson. If those four tank under the new regime, they’re simply not good enough. I think we’ve let some young players go over the years that really could have been something else if they’d had the proper coaching from an early age, case in point, Chamberlain over at Liverpool. Now our players will be getting properly educated and that’ll hopefully lead to more breakthrough players like we had in the early years.
We really need to hope Diamond Eyes can pull through with some proper signings. We need a top centre back, a mobile holding midfielder who can tackle and a keeper who can play with the ball at his feet like Allison or Ederson. It’s always tough finding players who can do that, but not as difficult as finding creators and goalscorers which we currently have. The brilliant thing about this summer is we have a contemporary scout with a proven track record hunting down players, we have a proper contracts person dealing with the paperwork, and we have a deal maker in Raul. Hopefully, this will be the least banter summer of the last 15 years.
Finally, it’s exciting to know that we’re hiring a coach who can help us be better than the sum of our parts. Wenger stopped doing that in 2008. The whole club will be re-energised, and hopefully, the fans will feel that when they watch players running through doors to make it happen on the pitch.
The future is certainly brighter. Whatever happens with Emery, he’s a moderniser. He’ll discipline the squad, he’ll rip out the bad parts, and he’ll leave us in better shape than he finds us. The football will be intense and exciting, something we’ve not seen in years. Going into a season not knowing what’s going to happen is a beautiful thing, it truly is.
I’m serious when I say this, I’m over being disappointed with Arsenal, so this season is going to be a very different writing exercise. I’ll still call out bullshit, but that’s the job of a blogger, even if you don’t like it. However, I’m going to give this guy a real chance because we all want to enjoy our club. We’ve just seen that it takes at least a year for new ideas to bed into a squad (Pep/Klopp), this won’t be an overnight success. There will be incredible days, there will be shocking days, as long as we’re seeing progress, we’ll all be happy.
So here’s to a new era, it feels great, I’m onboard the excitement wagon, and can’t wait to share the season with you all!
Welcome, Unai. x
P.S. Can I bitch about the kit? What happened there? #PumaOut
‘Yea …this is up there with Xhaka’s three tackles on average denying us the league title Wonderful insight’
That one is insight which your own brain cooked up. So congrats
“Low realised he wasn’t worth giving central billing to.”
that still does not answer the question
Why did the eventual world cup winners not shove this useless, limited, lazy footballer to the bench or on a plane back home??
Why bother tweaking your tactics for an overrated footballer who offers you nothing??
That is the question i asked
Mesut Ozil is a relic of a game that doesnt exist any more.
Involved in 12 goals (4 goals, 8 assists) last season.
Good wide players both score and set up more goals than this lazy sicknote.
Mahrez (12 goals, 10 assists)
Mane (10 goals, 7 assists)
Eriksen (10 goals, 10 assists)
Hazrd (12 goals, 4 assists)
Sane (10 goals, 15 assists)
Sterling (18 goals, 11 assists)
Fuck me, even Aaron Ramsey, playing 300 less minutes, outscored and assited Ozil.
Dele Alli plays deeper than, and out produces “the best number 10 in the world”
Rambo
Will take Perez over Iwobi all day long. He can be a very handy player.
Receding – So you think Ozil is useless and offers nothing?
You’re being a bit harsh on him there.
Gambon
He’s a relic based on a tepid season? At least you’re not knee jerk.
TR7
“Thoughts on Lorenzo guys? He was awful against Liverpool in CL but I don’t know much about him.”
Tidy, can pick a pass in the final third. That’s about it.
No great dynamism about him and won’t be of much significance off the ball or shoring up the midfield defensively.
Not really worth considering and won’t alleviate Arsenal’s weaknesses in midfield.
“Receding – So you think Ozil is useless and offers nothing?”
Nice one …you have bought yourself some time, now answer the question
Marc The irony is he has given figures in the past or made comment about the clubs ability to buy whoever they wanted. His look at the accounts comment killed the discussion dead from a supporters perspective football is a small community and whilst clubs like Chelsea and Man City who don’t work to a budgeteffect what a club like Arsenal is able to spend will be an open secret within that community. Agents, advisors and players themselves will openly discuss what is going on. Not quite a cartel but very much a business where knowledge is power. Buying players… Read more »
“Mesut Ozil is a relic of a game that doesnt exist any more.”
Owkay
I guess the 2018 world cup is about a game that does not exist anymore cos Lowe has called him up again and he might play all the games for Germany
Quite a relic
Receding – Grow a few brain cells. That might take more time.
TR7, I think we should cash-in on as many players as possible, definitely ones that are on the fringes of the squad. Use the money to buy first-11 material, keep a core of experienced players and fill the rest with youngsters that Mislintat can dig up.
“Receding – Grow a few brain cells. That might take more time.”
Right on cue
There comes the insult. Well done …at least you restrained yourself a little bit. That’s a first for you.
Ishola
Cheers , so all in all a nothing signing.
Playing Ozil on the left means you still get some of his good qualities without compromising the team defensively in central areas. So, you maybe miss out on a virtuoso performance against an Australia, but the awful performance he throws in later in tournament is not as costly.
‘Receding – So you think Ozil is useless and offers nothing?You’re being a bit harsh on him there.’
Lol. Receding loves cooking up statements that nobody made. He’s the King of strawmen.
“He’s a relic based on a tepid season? At least you’re not knee jerk.” Last 2 seasons average: 6 goals 8.5 assists Considering he gets a free role, and plays very high up the pitch, you think this is acceptable production? We could buy a £10m player that could give us that. Or just upgrade our wide players and find an extra 3 goals and 4.25 assists per player. Eriksen last 2 years average: 9 goals 12.5 assists DeBruyne last 2 years average: 7 goals 17 assists Hazard last 2 seasons average: 14 goals 4.5 assists Dele Alli last 2… Read more »
the issue is we need to rebuild with younger players
We could easily sell Ozil, Perez and Welbeck
Promote Nelson and buy 2 players
The sooner we start looking to the future and not what has been, the better
He’s not totally a non-entity defensively TR7.
He’s not bad at interceptions but all in all you want someone with much better presence who can put a foot in.
gambon
May 24, 2018 18:35:09
Receding
Ozil left, they have won 3 CLs since.
Thanks for your interest in our affairs.
so if ozil was there they wouldn’t have won these trophies? one has to wonder what you fellas think with anytime a comment like this surfaces.
there is a reason Emery is now the head coach instead of you. so let him do the needful. I hope you won’t shite your pants when ozil becomes the fulcrum of Emery’s team?
“This is simply a witch hunt by you on a player you simply do not like because he does not cover ground quickly.”
Actually, that is only one of three issues with Xhaka.
Another issue is that he makes terrible decisions when it comes to tackling. Terrible decisions.
And another issue is that he makes poor decisions with the ball when under pressure.
Might he improve under Emery? Sure.
But the people who are critical of him are critical of him because they have been paying close attention, not because they’re lazy.
Receding & Champagne
What have you got to say about the FACT (not opinion, fact) that Ozil is so much less productive than other AMs like DeBruyne, Hazard, Alli, Eriksen?
He’s also paid twice as much as all these players that do so much more than him.
I assume thats not in any way a problem.
“so if ozil was there they wouldn’t have won these trophies? one has to wonder what you fellas think with anytime a comment like this surfaces.”
You are assuming they actually think these statements through which is debatable
Gambon
Another billy basic stat attack? So unlike Le Grove.
Question, is it more impressive to notch an assist than it is a chance created?
No player at Arsenal would be missed if they were sold, especially Ozil lol
“Question, is it more impressive to notch an assist than it is a chance created?”
The worst question ive ever seen.
“What have you got to say about the FACT (not opinion, fact) that Ozil is so much less productive than other AMs like DeBruyne, Hazard, Alli, Eriksen?” Simple..he is not being challenged enough by his manager to be the best he can be. Not everyone is self motivated. Jose Mourinho had to publicly humiliate him in the dressing room for him to give his best. Lowe keeps calling him up regardless of his lazy traits cos he has figured out a way to use him. Not everything is black or white. You cannot spend years bashing Wenger for being a… Read more »
“He’s also paid twice as much as all these players that do so much more than him.” Let’s knock this one on the head once and for all.. Ozil at 270-350k a week was a cheaper option than replacing him with a player of similar ability. That was a situation Arsenal mismanaged, nothing to do with Ozil. Either you let Ozil walk away for 0 and spend 40-70 million + 200k wages replacing him, or you pay inflated wages. Arsenal chose the wages route. Really don’t see how it’s worthy of mentioning in any debate given it was the cheapest… Read more »
“The worst question ive ever seen.”
Because you can see where it’s leading and you’d rather avoid?
“But the people who are critical of him are critical of him because they have been paying close attention, not because they’re lazy.”
@ Bamford
Being critical is one thing. Going all out to blame one player for the failings of two seasons is not. Denying that he had his good periods last season is also not cool. Saying he does nothing but spray long passes to the full back is also not cool.
This Champagne charlie is the king at defending dross.
Fuck off and support the Spuds..
Telling stats Gambon
Ozil was brought to create changes. yet, that does not even to be on par with others.
His goals are woeful. Ive maintained the position that he loves to make the killer pass . He does not get himself into scoring positions much. Others can assists him. Its a rigidity in shifting his game. He cannot do that. Defensively- does little
I cannot see him lasting with a pressing system. I only hope his value goes up with Germany, and we can rid our selves of our Neymar lite.
Yeah Champagne
Its real basic stats.
The top scorers have won the league 6 out of 9 seasons, the 2nd top scorers twice (1 and 3 goals away from top scorer) and the 3rd top scorers (10 goals away) once.
Yet you are calling goal contribution stats “basic”
Having useless players like Ozil in the team contributing 14 goals per season is the reason we are finishing so far down the league.
But I assume you think the league goes to whichever team drinks the most coconut lattes and takes the most selfies, rather than actually scoring goals.
Gambon
Goals and assists is an incredibly superficial way of representing a player. I just asked a simple question and you’ve tried to avoid it…
Are assists more noteworthy than chances created?
History shows us that if we arent top scorers next season, we probably wont win the PL. Worst case scenario, we need to score almost as many as Man City.
This season we scored 32 less.
Yet Champagne Charlie thinks its not a prblem that the PLs second highest player contributed 14.5 goals on average in the past 2 seasons.
Compared with players like Alli that do much more defensively but contribute 22 goals per season on average.
Lets bury our heads and try to be football hipsters.
pull him down syndrome is obviously on show. it doesn’t surprise me a bit cos this is the same way you lots bring out players names to trash ours only for you to shift the goal post when things change. for the past two seasons the only player I can stand for is Monreal. others excluding the new guys ) have performed below average.
Your Comment Here
“Are assists more noteworthy than chances created?”
Jesus christ, what do you think?
Is a scuffed shot that hits the corner post more noteworthy than a goal?
Is a tackle more noteworthy than an attempted tackle where you miss and break your ankle?
Is a save more noteworthy than a dive where you go the right way but let the ball through your hands?
Or maybe you think players should be awarded 0.1 assists every time they create a chance, regardless of quality?
“Either you let Ozil walk away for 0 and spend 40-70 million + 200k wages replacing him,”
Erm, no.
4 goals, 8 assists will come MUCH MUCH MUCH cheaper than this. About £8m.
Gambon
You’re waffling at some rate pal, you do realise we’ve had a terrible two seasons? There’s not one player in the squad you could extract number from comparable to players in teams actually performing. It’s almost laughable that you’re genuinely banging that drum.
It’s almost like we’ve decided to change manager and restructure everything because it’s all gotten so stale.
Receding Right, except that none of Xhaka’s critics here blame him for our last two seasons. There have been plenty of other weak pieces at Arsenal, with the weakest being the manager, Arsene Wenger. Xhaka’s critics here simply think that he has serious deficiencies and that he isn’t good enough to start in our central midfield if we want to compete with the best teams. As for your other comments, yes, people criticize players here and they occasionally resort to hyperbole for effect. That’s just the way it goes here. If you don’t like it, there are other blogs where… Read more »
Gambon
wow you’re actually that special.
Ok how about this one, the difference between a chance created and an assist is NOT determined by Mesut Ozil (or any player who creates the chance). The striker/midfielder converting is what turns one into the other.
How does Ozil do for chances created? I’d wager Ozil returns pretty favourable figures for creating over his time with us. Or are we just going to narrow the sample to a time Arsenal have performed their worst in 20+ years and pretend that’s indicative of Ozil’s entire career?
ozil is going to the world cup – fact
ozil is in Emery’s plan – fact
haters can go on doing what they know how to do best- fact
it’s baffling how they pick a player to attack while covering up for the other dross in the team.
did I just said baffling? he’ll no wrongest word to use cos pulling players down is le – grovers’ thing
Bamford
I know you talk dog muck quite frequently, but don’t assert things like that when they’re so patently false. Xhaka and Mustafi get hyperbolic treatment of epic proportions on here, Jack too.
There is absolutely not the measured analysis you’re preaching. Even today you had one person pull up total goals conceded in Xhaka’s two seasons and directly correlate with the previous two to suggest he’s our big problem. Another poster was genuinely asking what he brings beyond a pass in behind to the onrushing LB. That’s not measured commentary, you’re wrong.
Charlie Who said anything about “measured commentary”? I didn’t. I said people often resort to hyperbole here. People here often have strong, negative feelings and they express them. So yes, people say some pretty negative things about Mustafi and Xhaka here. You know what? A decent amount of that negativity is fully merited. I’ve watched both of those players plenty, and while I agree that they have both had a decent showing here or there, they’ve both made awful fucking mistakes a fair amount too. I have no problem with people deriding them. Sorry. The only reason it bothers you… Read more »
‘Even today you had one person pull up total goals conceded in Xhaka’s two seasons and directly correlate with the previous two to suggest he’s our big problem.’
Champagne Crybaby still throwing the strops.
A DM who could produce Kante/Matic numbers would make us more sturdy and likely lower the goals conceded. Like how Coquelin came in and made us solid.
But hey, continue to waffle on about intangible nonsense.
Bamford
I mean you also think Mustafi is a better RB than CB so pinch of salt and all that.
For the record, it’s not that I “rate” this player or that player. It’s very much I don’t belong in the simplistic bubble created where a world renowned player is “useless”. That type of ignorance gets challenged, that simple.
tee Yes, and criticizing the manager was our thing here on Le Grove too, and we were absolutely, 100% right all along. The critics here may be right about Mustafi, Xhaka and Ozil as well. And that Emery has plans for Ozil is somewhat beside the point. The question is whether Ozil will do and be what Emery wants him to do and be. I for one think Ozil might actually be quite good for a year under Emery, as I think a fire lit under him could work for a time. We will have to wait and see on… Read more »
Charlie
That’s just another one of your silly cheap shots. So I’m not even going to respond.
And your analysis of this or that player is no more sophisticated than anyone else’s here. You just happen to like some of the players who come in for a lot of criticism here. And again, a fair amount of the negativity (even seemingly over-the-top stuff) that gets heaped upon some of these players is deserved.
You have a different view. Fine. Defend it. But saying others’ takes are “simplistic” whereas yours are more nuanced isn’t going to get you anywhere.
Very happy with the link to Pelegrini he’s a top talent who was linked with Chelsea and City last summer or the summer before. He’d be a good signing. But I still feel that this summer in defence and midfield there needs to be a marquee signing one that excites and says that we are for real or going to be soon enough. A Fabinho or a Gimenez/De Vrij/Koulibaly. But it’s looking a lot like Christmas at Arsenal this summer
Rambo
Continue to judge Xhaka as a DM, Coquelin had Cazorla alongside him so let’s not pretend Coquelin was anything more than a busy body in there.
Xhaka has had who partnering him in CM?
I’ll tell you who, absolutely nobody on Cazorla’s level. Which is precisely why you’re seeing us linked with players of that ilk. Disciplined, cute, elusive, mobile, technical. Something Ramsey, Jack, Elneny are not.
“But saying others’ takes are “simplistic” whereas yours are more nuanced isn’t going to get you anywhere.”
Right then, so it’s logical to suggest Xhaka is at fault because we conceded 55 goals in one season, yet the season before we had Coquelin and conceded 40?
That’s not simplistic nonsense? Because you’re absolutely not the person to let such arguments slip past you when you’re defending a point of view. So don’t flip flop
Charlie
There have been plenty of international players that have flopped at clubs when signed especially from abroad and coming from different leagues.
You seem to have the notion that this is not possible with your “world renowned” quote. I think you mean international players really.
Well so-called “world renowned” players (international players) have flopped in the past and will also fail on occasions in the future. It happens.
Charlie
I don’t really give a fuck about that argument. If you do, by all means, challenge it. I agree that it’s a little simplistic, given that our entire defense (CBs, fullbacks and GK) and not just Xhaka has something to do with the difference in those numbers.
However, I also don’t think Xhaka is very good defensively. He’s slow, fairly unathletic and he makes bad decisions. So while I wouldn’t make an argument as simplistic as the one you’ve cited, I also wouldn’t make an argument in defense of Xhaka.
Charlie, how does who Xhaka have as partner affect his individual stats?
I’ve already stated Arsenal’s lack of defensive support from midfield is the major reason why our goals conceded has shot up. There’s no running around this fact. Xhaka is incapable, Ramsey’s numbers have fallen off the cliff since 2014,Elneny is even worse than Xhaka.
You and others talk about the collective but one of the best ways to improve the collective is by improving the individuals.
“I agree that it’s a little simplistic, given that our entire defense (CBs, fullbacks and GK) and not just Xhaka has something to do with the difference in those numbers.”
Precisely, so enough of lecturing me about arguing such a simplistic view. If you “don’t give a fuck” about the argument then scroll past and don’t comment about it which elicit replies.
“Charlie, how does who Xhaka have as partner affect his individual stats?” Really? If the person next to you is piss poor at their duties then you quite obviously get drawn into shielding those flaws. It’s the same thing Kos had to do for years next to Per. Same way Monreal got his arse stretched with Alexis in front of him. If Xhaka had a CM partner as competent as Cazorla then his responsibilities are lessened and he can perform them better. I’m not preaching Xhaka as a model midfielder, but dumping on him in the manner you’re doing is… Read more »
Charlie
One, I did scroll past the argument. Two, you are using one simplistic argument that one poster made to generalize about Le Grove arguments against Xhaka in general. That’s bogus. If one poster here makes an overly simplistic argument, that’s cause for criticizing that poster and that poster alone, not Le Grove in general.
Anyways, let’s move on.
@Rambo –
“Charlie, how does who Xhaka have as partner affect his individual stats?”
I would guess that having various players play alongside you would have an effect on your own personal game, would account for certain discrepancies in individual stats.
How would Cazorla have helped out Xhaka defensively?
Let’s not pretend that Cazorla was all that good defensively.
If anything Coquelin doing the basic dirty work for Cazorla helped out the latter.
I have a season ticket and have seen xhaka play a lot he is crap, slow as hell has no right foot at all makes pore decisions and slows the play down to a crawl. I have seen 5 year olds tackle better as well
He is not a premier league player he needs time to decide what to do and by then the moment has gone or he is disposessed he is the opposite to cesc a quick thinking playmaker. He is not a DM either great in the slower German league terrible for us. Get rid
@Ishola70 –
“How would Cazorla have helped out Xhaka defensively?”
When Santi played as a CM thats exactly where he played CM. He wasn’t the best defensively but he was there.
“That’s not simplistic nonsense?”
What a pathetic weasel you are Champagne Charlie.
I’ve already explained multiple times the point I was making in those posts, yet you continue to ignore just to feel better.
Considering how hard you fight, I might as well turn the tables and claim-“Champagne Charlie suggests Xhaka had nothing at all to do with our shitty defensive performances”.
Question, is it more impressive to notch an assist than it is a chance created? Is it more impressive for a keeper to notch a save or a punched clearance? Genuine question. Charlie definitely on a role today on defence all day fuck Sokratis put him in coach. Anyway no but seriously Xhaka has in the two seasons since he’s been signed been average to occasionally awful it’s not hyperbole to say that these are facts his errors leading to goals prove that. And the Ozil defence of chances created over actual goals and assists is incredible. Would you defend… Read more »
Mustafi is error prone if Wenger was still here I would sat sell him but as Unai may help him improve I am interested in seeing what he can do I will say this Mavropanos will be here for a long time
Yeah, Jim, but Charlie’s claim is that Xhaka would have been better defensively if he had played alongside Santi Cazorla rather than Aaron Ramsey. I’m with Ishola in that I’m not sure I buy this. Why would that be, exactly? And I think Ishola is right that despite his weaknesses, Coquelin’s ability to cover so much ground defensively was actually a part of why Cazorla was somewhat effective as a CM. Without someone running about doing all of the defensive work Coquelin did, I’m not sure little Santi Cazorla would have been all that effective as a CM in the… Read more »
Bamford, you embarrass yourself siding with Champagne Crybaby.
If you scrolled past my arguments, how the fvck are you in a position to call them simplistic and bogus?
RR not sure Bamford was siding with him read it again
Jim Lahey
”When Santi played as a CM thats exactly where he played CM. He wasn’t the best defensively but he was there.”
Yeah.
I was just questioning Charlie’s view that Cazorla playing alongside Xhaka would lessen Xhaka’s responsibilities and when we say responsibilities I presume we mean defensive responsibilities because that is what he is slated for.
Well it wouldn’t have lessened Xhaka’s defensive responsibilities.
Coquelin lessened Cazorla’s defensive responsibilities.
Ishola This “defensive” idea is so dated, you do realise there’s little to no use for a destroyer type anymore right? The closest players to that in operation at the top end of the prem are Fernandinho, Dembele, Henderson, Matic, Kante. Of those players only Kante is an overly defensive player, the rest are much better described as “responsible” players of their respective midfields. Not tackle merchants or interception specialists, the game has moved on. Scoff at the “collective” stuff but it’s precisely how modern football operates. So how would Cazorla make a difference to Xhaka vs current options? He’d… Read more »
The players that are under intense [negative] scrutiny were well-thought of at their previous clubs and when playing for their countries
I can’t defend them as their performances have not meet reasonable expectations…but I am holding off [re-]judging them until I see what a system, discipline and coaching does for their performances
I’m optimistic so far with what I’ve see and heard about Emery
@Bamford –
Maybe he would have been? I don’t know!!
‘Why would that be, exactly?’
Just for the sake of debate I would suggest that Santi was a more reliable CM than Ramsey, both positionally and with the ball at his feet, I am sure that could help the game of whoever is playing alongside Santi.
“Without someone running about doing all of the defensive work Coquelin did, I’m not sure little Santi Cazorla would have been all that effective as a CM in the PL (or anywhere else).”
Same for David Silva or any other player of that ilk.
Rambo If you’re the poster who implied that the goal difference there can be attributed exclusively to the difference between Coquelin and Xhaka, then you made a simplistic argument. Why? Because there are other variables at play there, including (but not limited to) the quality of the CB play and the quality of the GK play. However, I’m still of the view that Xhaka is poor defensively, that he is slow, and that he’s probably not good enough. So we probably agree on the fundamental point here. I’m not even going to address the bit about “taking sides,” as that… Read more »
No-one is talking about destroyers Charlie.
Some just want to see players that can help the team in a defensive sense when not having the ball on a consistent basis.
Xhaka has not come anywhere near this requirement.
Is it his fault? Not really because he is not a player that you can consistently rely on to protect the defence on a consistent basis.
@Ishola70 –
“I was just questioning Charlie’s view that Cazorla playing alongside Xhaka would lessen Xhaka’s responsibilities and when we say responsibilities I presume we mean defensive responsibilities because that is what he is slated for.”
I have a feeling (I don’t actually know!) when we had Santi in CM we controlled games a lot better than without him, I think that would ease the defensive burden off not just Xhaka but the entire team?!
“Would you defend a midfielder who makes 300 passes a game but is only successful 40% of the time or whatever? No because at the end of the day end product matters and consistency matters” Right, how that compares to a ‘chance created vs assist’ is anyones guess, but thanks for commenting. The point was Ozil can make 10 chances, but it’s then out of his hands as to whether those 10 chances become 10 assists (through them being finished), or 1 assist because they weren’t. Can you see how dishing up assist numbers is simplistic on that basis? It’s… Read more »
Charlie, how does who Xhaka have as partner affect his individual stats? I don’t get this are we trying to say had Xhaka played with someone like Cazorla he’d all of a sudden be a good tackler and not a dumbshit? He’s been a shit tackler for years he’s renowned for being so bad and so stupid when it comes to tackling christ the amount of yellows and reds he gets. Also this idea that a CAM (Cazorla) playing alongside him would improve his play is nonsense. The only way Xhaka will end up working and looking decent is if… Read more »
I would like to see how Xhaka would get on with Rabiot beside him, tall, strong, disciplined, ball winning B2B player, it would take a lot of the burden off Xhaka and lets see what he can do.
He’s not that type of player.
Is it worth bringing in a midfielder that is more defensively switched on to play alongside Xhaka ? I don’t think so really. Xhaka is too slow and cumbersome to be a really affective CM.
Xhaka is what he is and can only play in one position. Deep lying playmaker. Regista or whatever you want to call it.
Jim Right, but would Xhaka be able to run around and do all of that defensive work for Cazorla, the work you just acknowledged allowed Cazorla to be effective? I don’t think so. Not the Xhaka I’ve watched. He isn’t very mobile. And he’s slow. What we’ve needed for a time is a player like Fernandino or Fabinho. When Xhaka was signed, some here presented him as a tackling, ball-winning, ball-playing, holding CM. An athlete who could mix it up, help win back possession and also make a good pass. Over the past two years he has shown himself, IMO,… Read more »
Charlie you’re arguing against his poor goals and assists return with the chances created argument who cares it’s all about productivity. I could chat up a hundred women in a bar and barely get a handjob would that make me a ladies man? Hell no
“Some just want to see players that can help the team in a defensive sense when not having the ball on a consistent basis. Xhaka has not come anywhere near this requirement.” Yea, and I contest this point. I’m pretty sure Xhaka ranks favourably in defensive actions for Arsenal which begs the question why his input is constantly under such scrutiny. Why is the defensive remit narrowed to Xhaka alone? It’s not his responsibility more than anyone else’s in the midfield when out of possession. That’s where I think views are distorted, Xhaka gets analysed for his defensive input but… Read more »
Jim Lahey
”I have a feeling (I don’t actually know!) when we had Santi in CM we controlled games a lot better than without him, I think that would ease the defensive burden off not just Xhaka but the entire team?!”
Do you not think it might have been the case that Coquelin gave him the platform to control the midfield?
That Coquelin was Cazorla’s safety net?
I remember the occasions when Cazorla lost the ball in midfield he was very slow to get back. Coquelin was mostly there to cover for him.
Xhaka is rubbish whatever label you put on him sell him but better simple
“I would like to see how Xhaka would get on with Rabiot beside him, tall, strong, disciplined, ball winning B2B player, it would take a lot of the burden off Xhaka and lets see what he can do.”
Have said exactly the same Jim. I’d even be curious how Seri would operate alongside Xhaka too because that base somewhat mirrors PSG’s in Rabiot(Xhaka)/Verratti(Seri). Though Rabiot is a better all around footballer than Xhaka by a distance for me, supreme CM he is.
@Bamfrod – “would Xhaka be able to run around and do all of that defensive work for Cazorla, the work you just acknowledged allowed Cazorla to be effective?” Doubt it! I was just trying to make the point that maybe having someone like Cazorla beside him could have helped Xhaka, could have been to the detriment of how Santi played but we will never know! Regarding Xhaka and his defensive duties, the guy isn’t a DM yet we all judge him on the attributes of a DM which I don’t think is totally fair. This season he was asked to… Read more »
“If you’re the poster who implied that the goal difference there can be attributed exclusively to the difference between Coquelin and Xhaka, then you made a simplistic argument.”
Nobody mentioned exclusive. I even clarified it in the next post when Romford quizzed me.
Charlie just behaving embarrassingly to get, I don’t know, brownie points?
Anyway, this is all just deflecting. Fact of the matter is, YES, a weak player like Xhaka playing DM was one of the major reasons we started conceding more.
Rabiot is better at everything and sarri would also be great Fordberg has been linked again hopefully we buy 5 plAyers and sell 5
@Ishola –
“Do you not think it might have been the case that Coquelin gave him the platform to control the midfield?”
Oh for sure! But Santi was always there as a CM alongside Coq, Xhaka hasn’t always had that luxury. But what I was trying to say was maybe a player with Santi’s skill set would have been more beneficial to Xhaka, then again maybe not!
Charlie
So Xhaka is not a CDM, he’s a deep-lying playmaker, you say.
OK.
And you would pair him with a Santi Cazorla, a quick, clever, technical CM.
OK.
But, how sound would such a midfield be defensively? For me that’s a terrible midfield. Really unbalanced. Really unathletic.
I don’t see how pairing Xhaka with a Cazorla would make for a good central midfield at all, particularly if you’re defining Xhaka as not-a-CDM.
Where exactly is the ball-winning, defending, space-covering and breaking-up-of-play going to come from in such a midfield?
AKBs displaying full blown Wenger PTSD Any one at the club that Le Grove criticizes = New Wenger ( their first choice was Arteta) So, chances created is a better stat than assist/goal? Yea that wins you games & honors right? And its not Ozil’s fault but of the attacker who did not convert it. Ok. Do you also measure the quality of chances created? A corner into the opposition box? If Ozil is that devine, he surely can adopt his game to the “inadequate” strikers we have right? Ozil is a talented but lazy luxury player that disrupts the… Read more »
@Charlie –
I am about to get absolutely destroyed for saying this but… I always fancied a Rabiot/Xhaka partnership to be like a poor mans Vieira/Petit..
The real problem over past two seasons as has been discussed many times is that we did not play like a team with our players lacking collective responsibility for what was going on. That was down to poor management and coaching. It was frankly a free for all with absolutely no discipline and most of the players performance level dropped. As I posted earlier today and Gambon has also repeated I doubt that Arsenal will buy more than 2-3 players almost certainly along the spine. You can also add in 2-3 youngsters who will be promoted. Then it up to… Read more »
Why is the defensive remit narrowed to Xhaka alone? It’s not his responsibility more than anyone else’s in the midfield when out of possession. That’s where I think views are distorted, Xhaka gets analysed for his defensive input but not a word is said about Elneny/Jack/Ramsey when they play alongside him.
That is true they’re all shite defensively. Xhaka doesn’t get away from it all because he’s good at passing it sideways. Same way Ramsey doesn’t get away with it because he backheels sometimes and scores sometimes
Emirates
I am happy to say that we ultimately need to see how some of these guys perform under Emery, but to reduce the conversation here to what you’ve recommended would be a fucking bore.
We’d have nothing to discuss if we all just said: “well, let’s just see how they do under the new manager.”
And criticizing players is kind of one of the things people do here. So recommending that everyone set aside his views on this or that player for the next three months is a bit of a non-starter.
“I don’t get this are we trying to say had Xhaka played with someone like Cazorla he’d all of a sudden be a good tackler and not a dumbshit?”
Its all bullshit. Like I said, the guy seems to believe Xhaka had nothing at all to do with our struggling defense. Blame anything and everything except Xhaka.
“But, how sound would such a midfield be defensively? For me that’s a terrible midfield. Really unbalanced. Really unathletic.” Put a Seri alongside Xhaka (on the assumption he’s mobile, technical, disciplined etc as I’ve stated previously) and that is a duo that could comfortably share defensive responsibility. I think Xhaka’s defensive input is massively undervalued because early on he made rash tackles, got reds, and earned a reputation as stupid and clumsy. He was very assured and defensively competent since January this season, and that was in a Wenger side with no consistent midfield partner of note. I mean heaven… Read more »
Jim
What, exactly, would Xhaka bring to that partnership? This is what I don’t get. I get that you see Rabiot as a B2B CM — I think? — but what is it that you see Xhaka doing? Charlie has told us that he’s not a defensive midfielder. Well, if he’s not a defensive midfielder and Rabiot is something of a B2B CM, what is Xhaka going to be doing, exactly? And how is that a defensively sound central midfield?
Seri is not good defensively Charlie.
So you would have two midfielders playing alongside each other that are not good defensively Xhaka and Seri.
Recipe for more opposition goals rattling into Arsenal’s net.
“Its all bullshit. Like I said, the guy seems to believe Xhaka had nothing at all to do with our struggling defense. Blame anything and everything except Xhaka.”
Not once have I said Xhaka hasn’t been culpable. I’ve rejected your nonsense about him being wank because we had better defensive numbers when Coquelin was in midfield.
Xhaka gets a fair share of blame, but that’s exactly it….a FAIR share. Our defensive failings aren’t down to him more than another player, but thats not what you’d think reading some of the comments.