Social competence challenges for two heavily linked names

by .

Screen Shot 2018-04-24 at 8.10.23 PM

Today, we’re going to talk social competence, because that’s often a consideration overlooked when fans think about a new leader for their club. We think tactics, trophies, hair density, how much they dance about on the sidelines.

Jokes aside, social competence is one of the most important aspects of a managers game, and quite often the defining factor in success. The man who represents your club sets the tone for how your brand is perceived, they can inspire sensational player to move to shitty areas, they can make average players believe they’re heroes.

Barcelona passed on Mourinho because he was a brand destroyer, but players like CR7 describe him as one of the best motivators in football. Jurgen Klopp has a band of average players on the verge of a Champions League final, those players feed off him. Leonardo Jardim took a group of inexperienced youth players and made them the most exciting attacking force in Europe. Social competence matters, and it comes in many different forms.

Arsenal and Arsene have tried to reflect their values in the squad, ultimately at the expense of trophies. Whether it’s keeping Diaby for 5 years too long, giving crap players massive wages to help with their feelings of inferiority, or keeping nice boys like Theo around… all were attempts at managing the psychology of the club for the better.

We celebrated values over accomplishment, and that has to stop. But there’s a clear demarcation line of the type of coach we could hire, it’s good versus evil (through the lens of Arsenal). We could opt for an out an out winner, who leads through fear, or we could hire a man of the people that motivate players and inspires fans by connecting to them on a human level.

Nagelsmann famously told Rapha Honigstein:

“Thirty percent of coaching is tactics, 70% social competence”

“Every player is motivated by different things and needs to be addressed accordingly. At this level, the quality of the players at your disposal will ensure that you play well within a good tactical set-up – if the psychological condition is right.”

The young prodigy was ironically mentored under Thomas Tuchel, a man famed for his football genius, not his people skills.

This is a comment from Antony Ujah comparing Tuchel to the new manager, Sandro Schwarz, at Mainz.

“Both are detail-obsessed and tactically very good, they do a lot of video analysis, so we need players to remember certain things, the difference is communication and human interaction.”

Ultimately, you can be a genius at extracting greatness from players on the pitch, but if you’re no good at the personal stuff, things break down very quickly. This was the commentary after his stint at Dortmund, his first major job.

“Even earlier, in January 2016, Tuchel had fallen out with head scout Sven Mislintat… being banished from Dortmund’s training facilities.

“More bridges were burned and the fall-out with the club and the fans continued. He already had parts of the team questioning him, when he hit out at Bayern-bound Hummels following his last match for BVB in the 2016 DFB Pokal final.”

“The coach also lost influential parts of Dortmund’s fan base. Jan-Henrik Gruszecki, notable fan and historian, told ESPN FC: “Tuchel never identified with the club.”

Even Mourinho admits his emotions have caused issues, and were something he tried to address.

“I believe that I am able to transmit this serenity to those who work with me, to my players. I have the same ambitions as before. The same involvement, the same professionalism, but I’m more in control of my emotions.”

His passion and inability to stay humble is why he rarely longers long than 3 seasons, but also maybe why he’s one of the most successful coaches in the world. He knows how to exract excellence for a short period of time before players and staff give into his social incompetence.

If you want to really nerd out, this quote takes you down an interesting rabbit hole from a football perspective.

“In 1988, Goleman analysed 188 global companies, where he tested and interviewed the star performers within them. He found that at managerial level, technical and cognitive skills were comparable, with emotional intelligence being the crucial factor that differentiated employee’s positions. Boyzatis, Goleman and Rhee (1999, p.3) define emotional intelligence as “When a person demonstrates the competencies that constitute self-awareness, self-management, social awareness and socials skills at appropriate times and ways in sufficient frequency to be effective in the situation.”

“It’s why a smart manager is gold in the game. Players usually turn into coaches. Most players are not taught to be real humans. They lack curiosity and don’t need social skills because they are fit, rich and good looking. Social skills are a rare commodity in football, so they are something our board should aspire to have in a new manager.”

That moves me to my point. The two supposed lead candidates for the role at Arsenal are Luis Enrique and Mikael Arteta. The exBarcelona coach famously offered to resign because he couldn’t get on with Leo Messi, there were also lots of reports that he never really bonded with the players. Then there’s Mikael, who some rave about, but quite a few people in the ranks at Arsenal do not speak of him in favourable terms. Apparently, he’s not a galvanising force, he’s outspoken, he lacks humility on quite a grand scale, can be immensely difficult and he’s seen as one of Ivan’s boys.

At a club that suffers divisions in the dressing room, do we not think the club should be considering someone a bit longer in the tooth? A little more mature? Or someone who has a less controversial reputation amongst players and staff? Or someone known in the game for having a world-class approach to culture?

Or, do we see the genius? He’s turning ok players into world-class operators. He’s captivated the City players, Pep G loves him, and City are winning.

The club might want a change of pace. Maybe we want to hire a ruthless manager to bring discipline and focus to the squad. Maybe a bit of ‘telling it like it is’ is what’s needed in a team that’s lacked direction and leadership over the last ten years.

If he has a streak in him, is that just par the course of absolute excellence? Is elite sport not a place for the nice guys?

Well, there are managers like Jurgen Klopp who operate on the other side of the fence. A man who leads through passion and love for his players. He’ll go to war for all his boys, and they die out on the pitch for him. He brings the fans together, the players and everyone loves him. I think Diego Simeone is another manager who has that sort of reputation for bringing players together, he operates a siege mentality and not many push to leave his nest despite massive riches on offer elsewhere. One of the most successful managers in the world, Carlo Ancelotti, is one of the nicest guys in the game. Players love him, a people’s man, and an absolute winner.

There are two sides to the argument, the question is, right now, what do Arsenal need with limited funds and a squad that sits out of the Champions League?

Matt Law is reporting that Arsenal are not in for Allegri and Sarri, weirdly because they won’t bring the stay away fans back to the club. Seems like an odd thing to say about a two managers that are best in class for sexy football, and tactically unreal football, battling it out in the most interesting Serie A in years.

Interestingly, he’s the first journo to talk about Leonardo Jardim, who should be the frontrunner for the Arsenal job. Interestingly, Marcelo Gallardo who is managing Club Atlético River Plate at the moment, is being linked with the Monaco job. Could Jardim be a backdoor signing? Or could Juve, PSG or Chelsea be up to some back door planning?

Anyway, point of this post is there are so many layers to this hire, and so many people to consider. The health of a football club goes beyond the 11 people that line up on the pitch. If the focal point of the club isn’t a brand fit, it can be horrendous.

The big question for Ivan is this: Who does he want Arsenal to be in a post-Wenger era?

We’ll find out in due course.

Right, see you in the comments.

478 Responses to “Social competence challenges for two heavily linked names”

Jump to comment form ↓

  1. kc

    ROTFLMFAO at the AKB wind up merchants still fighting a lost cause. Just spewing anything spiteful they can to get a rise. Please keep up the wonderful entertainment. Your anger and despair brings me schadenfreude.

  2. Thanos

    Do you remember what the bin dippers did when they had Woy Hodgson in charge, there were massive protests, let’s not pretend they have better quality fans than us, we also need to talk history Arsenal have always been a great club winning things in many eras Liverpool had a 20 year golden era in the 70s and 80s and since then sporadic trophies,

  3. Ishola70

    Mystic there is no confusion in the wording.

    Prestige is not out of place at all.

    Overall Liverpool have more prestige and respect as a football club than Arsenal.

    They are seen as a more serious football club than Arsenal.

    It doesn’t worry me to say these things. I’m just being honest.

    Liverpool are not even a proper rival of Arsenal.

    Once Arsenal start stacking up title wins on a more regular basis and win the premier european competition then we can start talking about Arsenal having more prestige as a football club than Liverpool.

    And that still holds despite Liverpool’s league title drought.

  4. mysticleaves

    “Both clubs have waited far too long for a league title win but Liverpool pop their head up in the premier knockout comp that being CL at times something Arsenal have never done.”

    You can say that. But ask a neutral fan to choose between Arsenal and Liverpool. Then ask 30 neutral players to choose between Arsenal and Liverpool. Even with our abject season to booth, you might be surprised at their answers.

    What am getting at is that Liverpool won UCL 13 years ago nd they weren’t there favorites. Since then, they have pretty much won nothing (or very little if I am mistaken). No player goes to Liverpool because he will be UCL even they have 5 wins.

    Recently, our brand is bigger and more enticing than theirs, we pay better and have better facilities too. I really don’t know what else I want to say. They made a big change with kloop but we will reclaim our place with a new manager

  5. Ishola70

    lol “better facilities” Mystic.

    “We got a better ground than you”

    Have some of that you scallies.

  6. Pierre

    Vintage gun
    ” I was VERY happy for all our recent domestic cup wins BUT we are a Massive club with massive resources which means we should be at least challenging for the major honors after a decade and a halfs wait to compete.”

    Totally agree…..it’s the “fans ” who are not even remotely happy when we win trophies that I have an issue with …not you.

  7. Ishola70

    I wasn’t on about players either Mystic although at this time for purely football reasons you would think a player would choose Liverpool over Arsenal.

    Ask followers of football in the top footballing nations who has more prestige and you will get the answer I stated at the beginning.

    And I mean top footballing nations.

    Not Africa. Sorry.

  8. Victorious

    pierre
    ‘Let’s hope the new manager can replicate our successes of the last 5 years and greatly improve on our performances and results in the”

    wouldn’t get my hopes up,most especially if that manager turns out to be Arteta

  9. Pierre

    Olegunner
    “don’t say this lightly but you are an arrogant, condescending and disingenuous prick.”

    Flattery will get you nowhere.

  10. mysticleaves

    Dream10
    April 26, 2018 08:10:33

    Absolutely, would love Jardim. He knows how to pick players too. Would be good to have a guy who has an eye for those French young talents again. And we have a few good young guns that he could bed in very well.

    Massive no to Carlo.

  11. Ishola70

    And that’s no slight on Africa btw.

    Just that the feelings and opinions there would be less comprehensive. Lots of affinity from many Africans towards Arsenal because of African player connection.

    Ask fans in places like Italy or Brazil though and the majority will say Liverpool.

  12. mysticleaves

    Ishola a neural fan is a follower of football. And prestige is most important to players. Once we get a new coach in place Liverpool ain’t seeing our back in terms of player pull. And if we get our swagger back The Arsenal of early 2000s will be back. Need I also remind you that you didn’t need to dominate any era to be a top3 brand unlike Liverpool who simply have not been able to relive their dominance of the 70/80s.

    We have better facilities than Liverpool and ground to booth

  13. Dissenter

    Wenger is such an inverterate liar, a disgusting one at that,
    Yesterday he continued his moaning party and was forced to retract his own public statements.

    He’s determined to burn down the house on the way out. He has this feeling of entitlement to Arsenal. You just know he’s not go out quietly.

  14. mysticleaves

    Ask fans in places like Italy or Brazil though and the majority will say Liverpool.

    And you know this how? Until you ask you will never know.

  15. Redtruth

    Guardiola said top 4 is better than winning the FA Cup yet many criticise Podgytino for saying the same thing..

    Lets not forget Wenger said it too

  16. mysticleaves

    Our commercial deals are also better than Liverpool’s. Unless you are trying to say that the companies are owned by Africans. Arent we the 6th richest club in the world too?

  17. Ishola70

    Maybe it is best not to ask them after all Mystic.

    In that way you can remain oblivious to the truth and feel good.

    We wouldn’t want you to be exposed to the harsh realities. Not even harsh really. Just the realities.

  18. Ishola70

    Dissenter
    “spot on about the so-called Liverpool vs Arsenal “rivalry”.”

    Yeah why are these boys getting their knickers in a twist because Liverpool are seen as a more prestigious club than Arsenal in places like Brazil, Italy, Germany etc.

    Win some top trophies in the coming years and it may change.

    At this moment in time don’t care that Liverpool are seen as more prestigious. It is what it is.

  19. mysticleaves

    Maybe you think the Arsenal situation is so bad because of Wenger, it’s not. We are a top brand and a top club. We just lost our way. The major Cancer is out. We need now to know that Kronke won’t hinder us going forward. To even compare us with Liverpool in the past 20 years is cringeworthy.

  20. Pierre

    Bloody hell Ruth, you are talking more crap than ever.

    ” most Arsenal fans would take a top 4 than winning an FA cup “. …really.

    ” Guardiola said top 4 is better than winning the FA Cup yet many criticise Podgytino for saying the same thing..Lets not forget Wenger said it too”

    And how many years was Wenger slated for saying exactly the same thing …hence the top 4 trophy on le grove…..you’re tying yourself in knots .

  21. Ishola70

    Mystic you are going right off the main road here.

    I don’t think the situation is so bad at Arsenal.

    I simply stated that Liverpool at this time are seen as the more prestigious football club than Arsenal by football fans in the top footballing nations.

    That you can’t come to terms with that is your own issue.

  22. Dissenter

    Mystic
    Our commercial deals aren’t better than Liverpool’s
    You’ve got that bit wrong.
    We have more match day revenue because we bilk the fans more from tickets while Liverpool have better commercial,deals overall.

    They are going to be further ahead if us commercially when the figures from this season come in: they have been winning the transfer battles and will earn tonnes from reaching the finals of the CL. Their stadium capacity also just increased by 13,000 more.

  23. mysticleaves

    Pierre you would realise that red said top 4 vs fa cup. Unless you have us at a level where we just aim for just fa cups. there’s the league also. and the UCL to compete for. Personally I wont mind the fa cup, but if that our ceiling then I would prefer top4

  24. Pierre

    Ishola
    “Ask fans in places like Italy or Brazil though and the majority will say Liverpool”

    Yeah , because Liverpool are held in high esteem in Italy aren’t they !!

  25. Black Hei

    “You’ll find Liverpool have won more trophies over a longer period of history than Arsenal.”

    And you can add everyone else except Manchester United to that list.

    I think the point is moot.

    What matters is relevance and Liverpool is currently more relevant than Arsenal.

    Hack they are even more relevant than Spurs, who in really Spursy tradition, decided they want to be the new Wenger, trophy drought and all.

  26. mysticleaves

    Dissenter we just started renewing our deals and will do new shirt sponsors next year so our commercials are better. We have more sponsors too.

    They are winning on the transfer because of the coach and he’s gone. Nothing more. More so, we haven’t targeted the same player recently. the last neutral player we both targeted chose us.

  27. Dissenter

    I think I read someone write about the “successes of the last five years”.
    I’m paraphrasing but whoever wrote that ought to be stripped naked, publicly tarred and then feathered with hair from Wenger arse.

  28. Ishola70

    Pierre
    ”Yeah , because Liverpool are held in high esteem in Italy aren’t they !!

    Now, now Pierre there is no need to bring in the darker side of the game.

    Despite the unfortunate events in the past with the scallies and the Italians those Italians respect Liverpool as a football club. What they have done on the field.

  29. Pierre

    Mysticleaves
    5 years ago top 4 meant nothing to Arsenal fans and they just wanted us to win a trophy .

    Now the FA cup and Europa cup means nothing to some fans and top 4 is important …

    .we all want to win or challenge for thw league , that goes without saying

  30. mysticleaves

    With the right managerial appointment and key support in transfers and back room staff we will be ahead of Liverpool and spurs in no time. I only worry about Man utd, Chelsea and man City. That’s why Gazidis have to leave Wenger values behind and take over the club. Has he been in the club too long to be Wengerized? Only time will tell.

    Also I don’t understand why papers keep saying who Sven wants as manager like it matters. He’s head of player recruitment last time I checked and the new manager department is above his pay grade. He should actually be looking at players he can sell to the new guy that IG and Raul will bring in

  31. HighburyLegend

    “we all want to win or challenge for thw league , that goes without saying”

    Do you speak for yourself, of also for all the Akb’s ??

  32. gambon

    “Our commercial deals are also better than Liverpool’s.”

    This isnt remotely true.

    Liverpool are always ahead of us commercially, as are Chelsea, which is an absolute travesty.

  33. Pierre

    Ishola
    Just saying it as it is…..I would imagine Liverpool are still not particularly well thought of in Italy …maybe I’m wrong.

  34. mysticleaves

    “I simply stated that Liverpool at this time are seen as the more prestigious football club than Arsenal by football fans in the top footballing nations.”

    There! This is what I wanted you to say. this is why I asked you to explain what you meant. See you have added “at this time”, that’s fair enough. AT THIS TIME Liverpool IS SEEN as the more prestigious club, that I can’t argue.

  35. Ishola70

    Pierre
    “Just saying it as it is…..I would imagine Liverpool are still not particularly well thought of in Italy …maybe I’m wrong.”

    No not wrong. They will be hated and despised by plenty in Italy.

    But we were not talking about which club is hated. That’s a different matter.

  36. Buckhurst Gun

    Pierre – “I haven’t seen protest and empty seats at anfield despite no title for 28 years…I haven’t seen protest or empty seats at White Hart Lane despite no title for 57 years.”

    Come on , you’re smarter than this – You won’t see protests and empty seats becuse both these clubs actively try and make the necessary changes to work towards those goals – we haven’t , until now we stuck with a man that made the same mistakes over and over and over again for 10 years too long – and if there are protests at said clubs (hodgson) the situation is addressed – spurs have hired and fired to try and make progress , as have Liverpool – if you’re going to be seen to be trying to make change then the fans are going to back you – both these clubs have progressed relative to their own situations- spurs are not the spurs we have dominated for 20 plus years they are a forward thinking organisation now , that can play us off the park – Liverpool are about to move into the CL final – winning the fa cup is great , but there are bigger prizes to be won by teams with our resources and ticket prices – we all want Arsenal to be the best team in the world – a few fa cups isn’t what the best team in the world wins – we are long overdue European and league success

  37. Wallace

    http://uk.businessinsider.com/the-20-richest-football-clubs-in-the-world-2018-1/#6-arsenal-fc-4876-million-419-million-or-5971-million-arsenals-total-revenue-was-a-club-record-on-the-pitch-the-club-won-its-third-fa-cup-in-four-seasons-but-the-failure-to-qualify-for-this-seasons-champions-league-tournament-could-see-arsenal-drop-down-the-deloitte-ladder-next-year-15

    9. Liverpool – 364m
    8. Chelsea – 367m
    7. – PSG – 417m

    “6. Arsenal FC – £419 million. Arsenal’s total revenue was a club record. On the pitch, the club won its third FA Cup in four seasons but the failure to qualify for this season’s Champions League tournament could see Arsenal drop down the Deloitte ladder next year.”

    5. Man City – 453m
    4. Bayern Munich – 505m
    3. Barcelona – 557m
    2. R Madrid – 579m
    1. Man Utd – 581m

  38. gambon

    You need to add £40-50m to Liverpools numbers, and take £30m away from Arsenals.

    Which leaves Liverpool ahead of us.

    Ditto for Chelsea.

  39. JAMES WOOD

    Mystic disagree regarding the Noise at Highbury.
    The North bank end could be very noisy.
    But that was a hard core English support.
    Off course i am going back a bit.
    🙂

  40. gambon

    Talks that Luis Enrique is close to the Arsenal role (L’equipe)

    Not sure Im that keen. I cant really judge Enrique as he had a very good Barca team, but it feels like a very lazy appointment.

    Do people think we have scoured the world, interviewed 10 people and picked the best man, or did Raul just text his old mate Luis and ask him if he wants the job?

  41. Buckhurst Gun

    Not a very inspired appointment at all is it – I said it yesterday – I don’t feel you can judge any manager aside from pep , from their success at Barca ….

  42. TR7

    Gambon

    ‘Do people think we have scoured the world, interviewed 10 people and picked the best man, or did Raul just text his old mate Luis and ask him if he wants the job?’

    So much hoopla around the new establishment of Sven,Raul and Ivan but none of them has been doing any due diligence when it comes to transfers and appointments. PEA and Mikhi both worked with Sven at Dortmund. If Enrique gets picked then it means it was Raul’s turn to flex his muscles.

  43. Romford Pele

    I said i’d get behind any new manager but Luis Enrique is so meh. Urgh. Celta Vigo was meh. Roma was a disasterclass. Barca had one of the best front three of all time but he’s a big part of why their midfield is now so dysfunctional. They spent so much money under him including players like Alcacer and Andre Gomes. Not sure how I feel about Raul thus far tbh. Then again, Sven’s suggestions aren’t exactly inspiring either.

  44. mysticleaves

    Gambon, Dissenter

    all the articles I have read have Arsenal above Liverpool in revenues. I was more talking about commercials alone which actually showed Liverpool edged it by around 3 million. So I was wrong on that. But putting all other revenue streams together we have been better than Liverpool yearly. Because of the UCL maybe this year would be different..

  45. Romford Pele

    “Not a very inspired appointment at all is it – I said it yesterday – I don’t feel you can judge any manager aside from pep , from their success at Barca ….”

    Agreed. Everything since has been feeding off Pep’s work. This the first season the formation has changed at Barca in years and while they’re going to win the league (still undefeated), performances have been far from what you’d associate with Barca.

  46. Ishola70

    At this point I’d prefer Nagelsmann to Enrique despite the latter winning trophies.

    Allegri to trump those two.

    Enrique is better than Arteta though of course.

    Enrique doesn’t strike as having much of a character or charisma on the touchline.

  47. Pierre

    I would have thought it would have been better to announce Wenger was leaving and at the same time announce who his replacement is for next season to stop all the speculation.

    Maybe they already know but will wait until the end of the season but it seems pointless to wait another 4 weeks or so before we find out who the replacement will be .

  48. mysticleaves

    “Do people think we have scoured the world, interviewed 10 people and picked the best man, or did Raul just text his old mate Luis and ask him if he wants the job?”

    When hiring you also go for the devil you know sometimes. Enrique and Raul worked together and were absolutely successful. He would want to recreate the magic again if he can, that’s why coaches normally takes back their former players at new clubs.

    Romford
    Good to see you are back, how you been? Celta wasn’t a disaster at all and that was the stint that got him the barca gig. It helped that he was a barca man too. Roma was disastrous non the less but I saw a man that was willing to die by what he believes in. Totti made life impossible for him and the club and playets will always choose Totti. At this point we need a strong character and Enrique is one. He also put Messi in his place when he was their coach and was ready to leave if he didn’t get his way. We need his type.

  49. Buckhurst Gun

    Romford

    Hopefully Enrique prices himself out of the Arsenal job and heads over to Chelsea – outlets saying he wants 15 Mill a year – unproven in the prem , only success at Barca – the jobs we should be judging him on , like you said , Celta and Roma meh , there’s no way he can be paid that much and there’s no way we should give it to him – cheaper more dynamic appointments to be made

  50. mysticleaves

    Nagelsman will be a complete disaster. Doesn’t know the club, doesn’t have pedigree, will have no allies in the club. Ramsey won’t even listen to him. He will be sacked in 6 months

  51. gambon

    The positive about Enrique is that if we are backing Sanllehi and Enrique to take us back to the top, surely we will have to back them financially.

    These guys worked at the very top level, they arent gonna be happy with wasters like Iwobi and Welbeck.

    Certainly, you would have to believe the club is 100% targeting winning the PL, otherwise we would appoint lower level people.

  52. Buckhurst Gun

    Mystic

    He’d have Sven just like Enrique would have Raul

    Remember Nagelsmann is all about the social aspect – Enrique is the one who upset the legends at his previous 2 clubs ….

  53. Ishola70

    No allies?

    Wenger surrounded himself with allies and yes men for years and can be detrimental.

    Does Enrique know the club Arsenal better than Nagelsmann?

    Enrique is quite a staid character on the touchline. Doesn’t have much charisma although he may be good in other aspects from appearance.

    Nagelsmann would be a fresh and quite exciting appointment.

    In saying that he would be down the pecking order of course in comparison to an Allegri or Jardim.

  54. Romford Pele

    Mystic – Good thanks man, hope you’re well. The Celta spell was the best for him. Take your point about Totti making it hard for Enrique at Roma but it’s really hard to escape the fact that he got the Barca job on the basis of being an ex-employee. Barca have traditionally not gone for big names. They go for ex players or those entrenched in the philosophy. Put Messi in his place? How do you define that because I don’t remember it that way? That club literally doesn’t function without Messi.

    Buckhurst – agreed mate

  55. Bamford10

    How would people describe Enrique’s philosophy, system or approach? Has he implemented the same system, style or approach at each of the clubs he’s managed or is he more flexible, has done different things depending on the players he had available to him? Is he similar to Guardiola in his thinking, approach or different in some way?

  56. Buckhurst Gun

    I don’t think Nagelsmann would be a disaster at all – he’s a 21 century manager , literally the footballing equivalent of the latest version of Apple iOS – we’ve just been told we’re finally replacing windows 98 – this team is crying out for a manager with his ideas I have no doubts he would bring a different level out of this team and he players would be on board very quickly

  57. WengerEagle

    Enrique bought mostly shit while at Barcelona though as RP pointed out. Sanhelli’s involvement in that too would also concern me.

    They should have gone from strength to strength after winning everything in 2014/15 with MSN, instead they bought largely average players for bloated fees and disimproved season upon season.

    All well and good achieving what he did with Messi, Neymar, Iniesta, Pique, Busquets, Alves, Alba already at the club.

    We need a manager that recruits well here, because we don’t have the luxury of having these calibre of players, we need a complete player overhaul.

  58. Romford Pele

    “The positive about Enrique is that if we are backing Sanllehi and Enrique to take us back to the top, surely we will have to back them financially.”

    True but outside of Neymar who is obviously phenomenal and everyone in world football would have him, who else? Their recruitment policy has been questionable for while tbh. They’ve signed a lot of duds and a lot of them under Sanhelli’s watch. Neymar is obviously the one you give him credit for as he brought him to Barca but you feel that’s a deal that could’ve happened even without him there.

  59. gambon

    I would say Enriques approach is very much a 3 man forward line, usually 4-3-3.

    He isnt tippy tappy, plays very vertical football. Quite similar game to what Liverpool are doing this year.

    The problem is, we dont have the players for that right now.

    I couldnt see Ozil, Mykhitaryan, Iwobi, Welbeck ever getting a game wide in his system.

    So we would probably see a lot of change stylistically…..which i’m all for.

  60. Romford Pele

    Bamford – what he did differently to Pep was that he focused on being more direct, especially through the front three whereas Pep’s focus has always been on having total control through the midfield.

    Under Enrique we’d probably be very direct and score goals but would struggle in midfield, especially in games against the bigger clubs. He plays 433 like Pep but it’s much looser and not s strong positionally. The fact the front three don’t track back puts an awful lot of strain on the midfield three. It felt more disjointed whereas Barca under Pep were a complete unit from front to back.

  61. gambon

    Romford

    Sven is the transfer man though, isnt he. Enrique would get a say, but I would imagine it would be a case of Enrique saying what he needs, Sven makes the shortlist, then a commitee makes the decision.

    For example the first think Enrique would want is 2 wide attacking strikers that are great one on one.

    I think from that point Sven would have just as much influence as Enrique or anyone else.

  62. Pierre

    Buckhurst gun.

    The point I was making is,if you take Wenger out of the equation , both of those clubs ,as have Chelsea and city previously , have given their fans very little to cheer about (one champions league the exception) but they have stood by the team and supported the players throughout many lean years whereas at Arsenal it started ten years ago , just 4 years after the invincibles and 2 years after being ten minutes away from winning the champions league.

    There were many mitigating circumstances as to why we failed during that period , namely losing many players to our rivals and Barca. …city and Chelsea spending net 400 million compared to our 28 million profit….bad signings after the ces,rvp nasri era and a negativity from media which bled into the fans .

    Arsenal supporters not wanting their team to win trophies because of one man is ridiculous…..i can gaurantee there will still be “fans” who will want Arsenal to lose tonight because they don’t want Wenger to go out on a high even though they know he is leaving…..is that putting the club first .

  63. WengerEagle

    Luis Suarez as well RP, he’s another that was the obvious signing to make in 2014 as he was the best player in the world then after Messi and Ronaldo.

    I give them credit for Ter Stegen who’s been great and Rakitic who although has been up and down has largely been a very good signing, especially value for money considering he cost a bargain £13 million. Umititi as well looks like he will be a very good player for them for years to come.

    Don’t rate any of the Arda Turan, Aleix Vidal (he’s absolutely dire, amazing how he has not been binned), Alcacer, Andre Gomes (lol he’s pathetic), Cillessen, Digne, Mathieu, etc.

    Nowhere near Barcelona calibre players.

  64. Bamford10

    Nagelsmann’s age and limited experience will exclude him, I think. Given the importance of this appointment, they are likely to choose a candidate who is “safe” in some way. Nagelsmann would be far too adventurous and chancy. Plus he distanced himself a couple of days ago from rumors linking him to Arsenal.

  65. WengerEagle

    Two top class wide forwards will cost a bomb though gambon.

    Look at the fees that Coutinho and Dembele fetched.

    Will we really spend £200 million+ on forwards in your mind?

  66. Rambo Ramsey

    Arsenal aren’t gonna announce a new name maybe because it’d be a distraction?Making it all about Arsene and only Arsene.. perhaps hoping the players can pull the best performances for the old man and win the Europa. Last desperate attempt to get back to CL.

  67. Buckhurst Gun

    WengerEagle

    “All well and good achieving what he did with Messi, Neymar, Iniesta, Pique, Busquets, Alves, Alba already at the club.”

    Exactly this.

    I think I remember flying off the handle at you a while back on here – apologies mate – must have been a bad day on my part ,

  68. Romford Pele

    Gambon, it’ll be interesting to see how the power play works at the club now. With Wenger going, Mislintat, Gazidis and Sanllehi will all be vying for power. Your method theoretically should be the model but we know how egos can play a part. One thing is for sure, there’s no hiding behind a Wenger-like figure so if they don’t deliver the fans will be on their back.

    While the German market is ripe with players, I hope we aren’t too focused there. Need to be looking in France and Spain (sanllehi) as well.

  69. Ishola70

    Yeah huge warning signs here about Enrique in regards to his previous and when we consider terms such as loose structure, not the best positioning.

    We have seen that long enough under Wenger.

  70. Vintage Gun

    “The positive about Enrique is that if we are backing Sanllehi and Enrique to take us back to the top, surely we will have to back them financially.”

    I agree. I read an interview with Sanehli where he said it was Arsenal’s staff recruitment plans moving forward which CONVINCED him to join us.

    Basically you don’t hire the Barca DoF and then play silly-buggers on the transfer kittys and overall ambitions.

  71. Rambo Ramsey

    Lol. There isn’t an abundance of good midfielders in the World, the quality has been on a steady decline.

  72. Romford Pele

    Eagle – yeah good shout RE Suarez, totally forgot. But yeah, him and Neymar were obvious signings tbh.

    “Don’t rate any of the Arda Turan, Aleix Vidal (he’s absolutely dire, amazing how he has not been binned), Alcacer, Andre Gomes (lol he’s pathetic), Cillessen, Digne, Mathieu, etc.”

    That’s a terrible list of players, my word. You can see why Pep mostly focused on promoting players within La Masia to help maintain the style.

    TR7’s point on midfield is so true. Central midfield is where we’re very weak and Enrique, going by his career thus far, doesn’t place much emphasis on it.

  73. Dissenter

    At least Enrique can stand up to the board unlike Areteta. He will also be able to break up th team because he ha s the DoF in his side.
    We won the playing any tippy tappy for sure.

    We will.have a busy transfer window because I can’t imagine he won’t be demanding for transfer funds.

  74. WengerEagle

    Is the German makret ripe with players?

    I personally think that the Bundsliga currently is complete shite, worst it’s been for a long time.

    I’d argue that Ligue 1 has more talent to choose from atm.

  75. Romford Pele

    “Lol. There isn’t an abundance of good midfielders in the World, the quality has been on a steady decline.”

    What type of midfielders are you alluding to?

  76. Romford Pele

    “I personally think that the Bundsliga currently is complete shite, worst it’s been for a long time.”

    Depends what type of player you’re pursuing. Ligue 1 is definitely ripe for picking though. Ndombele and Aouar from Lyon are my favourites although I was very impressed with Golovin from CSKA in the last round.

  77. Dissenter

    We just won a trophy.
    When is the last time we beat Chelsea for a reputable manager.

    Really the papers have been saying that Enrique was Arsenal bound for at least 6 months. I’m glad the club had been talking to him for a long time.

  78. WengerEagle

    Na South Americans always have that work permit shite/3rd party ownership complications don’t they?

    It’s why they all sign for Italian, Spanish and Portuguese clubs coming over from SA.

  79. Ishola70

    WengerEagle
    “Is the German makret ripe with players?I personally think that the Bundsliga currently is complete shite, worst it’s been for a long time.I’d argue that Ligue 1 has more talent to choose from atm.”

    Wouldn’t think much to argue. Ligue 1 it is.

    What youngsters you like in Ligue 1 at present?

  80. Bamford10

    Pierre

    It’s over. Why you are still making these arguments, several of which rely upon falsehoods and distortions, I have no idea. Just leave it.

    Wenger’s incompetence has been obvious to many supporters for years now; this and the club’s complacency are what drove the negativity. This negativity was completely and totally justified, as Wenger had long since ceased to be a good manager and the FA Cup is not the PL or the CL.

    The arguments you are making are both moot and false.

    Just leave it, mate. It’s over.

  81. gambon

    WengerEagle

    Coutinho and Dembele cost £16m combined………

    ……..when they signed for Liverpool & Dortmund.

    Thats the big change that needs to happen (for all teams in world football). Teams need to get better at finding £100m players when they are £5m youths.

    Thats the main reason we brought Sven in.

    Transfer fees have become unsustainable so clubs will have to find a way to innovate.

    Look at 3 good wide attackers right now, Leon Bailey, Malcom and Hirving Lozano. They would cost £150m to buy right now, but in the last 2 years all moved for a combined £30m.

    Clubs have to work out how to recognise world class talent at a young age.

  82. Bamford10

    “Teams need to get better at finding £100m players when they are £5m youths.”

    Absolutely. We need to get better at this.

  83. Dissenter

    Wenge Eagle
    “Na South Americans always have that work permit shite/3rd party ownership complications don’t they?”

    Actually that’s why we pay people to negotiate contracts. There’s no big deal about third party. One just negotiates with both parties simultaneously.
    We can’t afford the players once they be played in Europe becahsentheurbvaluensky-rockets. That’s why Juve and Roma are doing well. We have to get them from the outset.

  84. Paulinho

    Not sure how much their playing career affects their management, but Enrique is interesting in terms of being a player that could play everywhere bar Goalkeeper. Probably one of the most versatile players of all time.

    He should in theory have a very complete football mind, but so far it hasn’t really worked out.

  85. WengerEagle

    RP

    Malcolm too looks mustard, then you have Fekir, Marseille’s Amavi (was very good for Villa over here too), the Monaco bunch in Lemar, Fabinho, Sidibe.

    PSG will for sure have more significant shake-ups in the summer, no way all of Goncalo Guedes, Di Maria, Draxler are there next season, I would gladly take any of the three, preferably Guedes.

  86. Romford Pele

    “Teams need to get better at finding £100m players when they are £5m youths.”

    Tbh this is quite hard. When Wenger first came we used to monopolise the French market especially. There’ so much more competition for players and every club has money so inflation is a natural by-product of this.

  87. Bamford10

    Romford

    “Central midfield is where we’re very weak and Enrique, going by his career thus far, doesn’t place much emphasis on it.”

    I feel like it would be a little strange if a former Barcelona player and manager didn’t place much emphasis upon central midfield; indeed, I think it would be strange if any competent manager today didn’t.

    Isn’t there a chance that those signings weren’t solely his idea? Do we know that the manager himself picks the signings at Barcelona? Isn’t it also possible that he just got a couple of signings wrong but that with Mislintat and Sanllehi’s help he’ll manage to do better going forward?

  88. Rambo Ramsey

    Central and cerebral midfielders.

    All too mechanical now. Where are the players who can carry the mantle of a Iniesta, Silva, Pirlo, Xabi Alonso, Cazorla, Schweinsteiger, Fabregas etc?

    They don’t exist

  89. Paulinho

    Romford – Did I read correctly the other day? You’re handing in your Welbeck foundation fan club member’s club card? and want him sold?

    Sad times.

  90. Romford Pele

    Eagle – yeah Malcom is great. Definitely fits our needs. Heard the deal was basically done in Jan but Bordeaux wanted him on loan until the summer, we didn’t wanna oblige.

    Fekir is great although he’ another #10. showed more versatility in playing CM in recent times though.

    I love Guedes, been mustard for Valencia this season. Having him and Malcom would be great wide. Draxler I still love though. PSG have far too much talent!

  91. UTarse

    “i can gaurantee there will still be “fans” who will want Arsenal to lose tonight because they don’t want Wenger to go out on a high even though they know he is leaving…..is that putting the club first .”

    You’re so full of shit.

  92. WengerEagle

    Ishola

    Malcolm, N’Dombele has supposedly looked great, Bertrand Traore is another that I think will go on to be a very good player- former Chelsea lad, Jorge off of Monaco looks good, Rony Lopes another very promising player for Monaco, was a City player.

  93. Bamford10

    Still interested in hearing more about Enrique’s approach to the game, style, philosophy, what he seems to emphasize, not emphasize, etc. Is he just “Guardiola B” or “Guardiola with less charisma,” or is he a more complicated figure than that?

  94. gambon

    “Tbh this is quite hard. When Wenger first came we used to monopolise the French market especially. There’ so much more competition for players and every club has money so inflation is a natural by-product of this.”

    Dont agree, its just a lot of teams havent looked at it scientifically.

    There must be a way of using big data to reverse engineer what a top class CF/AM/CM looks like, stats wise, as a 19 year old.

    Look at Svens Mislintats record…….Auba, Pulisic, Lewandowski, Dembele, Kagawa, Hummells for a combined £25m or so.

    Steve Rowley just wouldnt have been capable of that.

    Lots of clubs have been very adept at finding young talent…..Atalanta, Udinese, PSV, Porto, Monaco, Lyon…..the problem is they inevitably lose these players to bigger clubs.

    Arsenall have the capability to pay £200k per week to multiple players, so in theory we could find, develop but also retain players like Dembele.

    Food for thought…..De Gea, Alderweireld & Kante…….the best defensive spine in the PL, could have been bought for a combined £33m when they first came to the PL.

    They would now cost over £50m each.

  95. Romford Pele

    Loooool Paulinho, yeah man but not because I don’t like him. He’s a very good tactical forward that can be used in big games even though his goal return is trash. Problem is that we don’ have much money and a massive wage bill so certain players need to be sold. Welbeck is one of those that will scope money as he’s English and still a decent age. And with a year left on his deal I think we’ll cash in.

    I do think it’s interesting though – if Gazidis knew Wenger was going, it’s a wonder he sanctioned the new deal for Ozil and big contracts for Mkhi and Auba considering their age. In a couple years they’re all gonna be next to useless so surely it would’ve made sense to start a rebuild in Jan. Or maybe we have more money to spend in the summer than they’re briefing.

  96. Ishola70

    No love for Tousart WE?

    lol I knew that Tousart would be overlooked for Ndombele .

    Too basic eh?

    He would be good as a pure DM though.

  97. Buckhurst Gun

    Eagle

    I know it’s a pretty big gamble but I’ve been seduced by Nagelsmann , my ultimate pick would be allegri

    As much as I want to vouch for him , I Can’t hide the thought that Nagelsmann could turn out like villas boas did at Chelsea

    Ultimately , whoever comes in will be bringing some fresh ideas to the club

  98. Marc

    WengerEagle

    We used to constantly sign quality players for low fees we just need to get back to doing this but also being able to add in a marquee player as well.

    Rambo

    We won’t sign loads of South American players for the simple reason that we’re restricted to the number of non EU players we can have in the squad.

  99. Dissenter

    Rambo
    “Arsenal aren’t gonna announce a new name maybe because it’d be a distraction?”
    I disagree somewhat.
    We can’t announce the name until the semifinals are done, win or lose against Atletico
    However we need to make a formal announcement for commercial purposes and also because you can’t hold a secret that big for too long.
    A new manager means a spouse looking for an elegant London home, international school for kids not to mention all the assistant coaches that need to move as well. The word is going to get out.
    Then you have agents of the players preferred by the new manage being contacted… cant hold that secret.
    The only way to control the information is to be the one breaking it on your own terms. We will announce once we are done with Atletico.
    The incentive is that players have to play for their futures besides they still have to honor Wenger regardless.

  100. WengerEagle

    gambon

    Not disagreeing, we need to improve big time on this.

    Coutinho’s cost £8million in Jan 2013 though, that’s a long time ago in the footy market.

    That’s where I wouldn’t have much faith in Sanhelli or Enrique though, all their best work was top of the range marquee signings such as Neymar, Suarez, Stegen (huge player already with a massive rep) and Rakitic (again same).

  101. China

    Liverpool are widely regarded as a major club but they are still second class in terms of current reputation compared with the elite teams. Same category as arsenal. A major club with rich history, a big stadium, big brand, rarely competitive for major trophies dating back ages besides occasional good seasons

    This season liverpool are in the ascendency and arsenal have fallen badly, but in the grand scheme of things we’re similar ball park Id say

  102. Ishola70

    Tousart is actually rated higher in transfer value than NDombele.

    Tousart the younger player by a year.

    Can’t be that basic then.

  103. Romford Pele

    Bamford – He prefers to place emphasis on the front three so the central midfield will naturally suffer.

    Rambo – At the top clubs, the likes of Isco, Thiago, Verrati, Kovacic, Rabiot, Silva, KDB. But there are loads of up and coming ones, like Ceballos, Golovin, Aouar, Ndombele, Lopez, Fornals, Soler, Pellegrini, SMS etc. Obviously none of these guys are world class but with development they can reach that level. Also we’re not in the bracket where we can buy top shelf CMs straight away.

  104. WengerEagle

    ‘Isn’t it also possible that he just got a couple of signings wrong but that with Mislintat and Sanllehi’s help he’ll manage to do better going forward?’

    Eh they were more than just ‘a couple’ of bad signings, and Sanhelli was the man that he signed them with!

  105. Paulinho

    Romford – Yeah I get it. It’s the injuries with him that also make it likely he will be sold.

    I expect him to be an absolute monster in two games versus Atletico though. That mixture of athleticism and underrated technique could be a nightmare for Madrid,who probably come across more limited, but much more efficient players in their league.

  106. Guns of Hackney

    Isn’t Enrique impossible to judge based on what we know?

    He managed Barca
    He had Messi

    I mean…that’s it. I could manage Barca…Peter Reid could manage Barca.

    Enrique is really grinding my gears a bit. If we’re going for someone, let’s go for someone who either hasn’t managed (Arteta) or someone who has done things with massive limitations (Baglesmann, Tuchel).

    Enrique has had the best team on the planet to work with…and now he’ll have to manage this shit show? Yuk. Welbeck and Iwobi ain’t Messi or Suarez.

  107. Marc

    Romford

    The Ozil, Aba and Mikki contract’s were all about sending a signal to fans about ambition / placate them.

    Can you imagine it on here if we’d have sold Sanchez for £30 odd million, not brought in any replacement, be in a position to lose our record signing on a free in the summer and only have one striker as the club.

    Don’t we want Sanllehi to be able to walk into sponsorship / commercial meetings with at least something on his side?

  108. Romford Pele

    “Tousart is actually rated higher in transfer value than NDombele.”

    Ndombele is much better. Physical demon with ball carrying skills although the two are different players mind you.

    Gambon – not disagreeing with the method we should be taking at all. The proof will be in the pudding. Let’s see if Sven can earn his coin.

  109. gambon

    “or someone who has done things with massive limitations (Baglesmann, Tuchel).”

    I think that would be a dreadful idea, these guys are bridesmaids, massively content with finishing 2nd, 3rd, 4th.

    If its not gonna be an ex club man, it needs to be an experienced winner.

    Allegri, Conte, Emery, Enrique all have experience of winning, and will demand high standards.

    I would hate someone like Nagelsmann, who doesnt have any undertanding of the sacfrifice and effort required to win.

  110. Dissenter

    I do think Enrique has a some pull as well. There are certain types of players who will want to come and play for him. Of all the names mentioned as leading choices, he is the one who is able to call a player up and be instantly noticed.
    After all he did coach Leo Messi and Neymar. He’s managed at Barca.
    I don’t think he will back away from any argument with the senior players.

    I’m not sure he’s emotionally ready for the premier league and it’s media party though.
    He’s easily buttt hurt and never learned how to manage the La Liga media.

  111. Paulinho

    Henry over Enrique as well.

    Don’t see the point of not taking on managers due to lack of experience when the other more acceptable ones have barely any either.

    Anyway, for me, football understanding and intuition trumps experience anyway. Managers seem to have a progressively short shelf life, and Wenger has shown that simply doing something for a long time doesn’t make you more effective at it. Also certain managers can do well at certain clubs, and fail at others. It’s a all a crapshoot to a large extent.

  112. Romford Pele

    Paulinho – yeah agreed. As unorthodox as he can be, his mixture of power and pace will be needed against Atleti’s low block. Hope he does start and he should but can see Wenger leaving him on the bench for insurance as we don’t have any other forward options. But another positive for Welbeck is that he offsets Lacazette’s physical limitations and is another threat in behind. In between those two and Ramsey, that’s where our goals will come from.

    Marc – very true! Both valid points. For our brand we had to do something when Alexis left.

  113. Ishola70

    No he is not a baller Tousart WE.

    and that’s why RP rates Ndombele as much better.

    Tousart is better defensively than NDombele has a very good engine and better concentration levels than NDombele .

  114. Romford Pele

    “Anyway, for me, football understanding and intuition trumps experience anyway. Managers seem to have a progressively short shelf life, and Wenger has shown that simply doing something for a long time doesn’t make you more effective at it. Also certain managers can do well at certain clubs, and fail at others. It’s a all a crapshoot to a large extent.”

    Agreed

  115. Dissenter

    Whatever we do or whomsoever we bring in as manger,
    Let Jack go.
    That’s how we let change start. I don’t want anyone still living off one game in 2011 around.

  116. WengerEagle

    See the problem too is that we’re living in the social media era and the streaming era, nobody is a secret anymore.

    Alex Hleb was a total unknown in the BPL as was Rosicky to the larger audience (footy hipsters would have known him from his Czech Republic performances) and they were both bought for modest fees, despite both already being big stars in the Bundesliga (Rosicky WON the Bundesliga).

    Now you have players looking brilliant for one season and they’re going to be worth nearer £100 million in Bailey and Malcolm and Guedes.

  117. gambon

    Yeah Jack is a mid table player these days, has to go.

    Whoever comes in will have a hell of a lot to do.

    Wenger has left a squad that is a complete mess.

    No decent GK, terrible defence, midfielders that are absolutely terrible physically, about 14 number 10’s, no wide players at all.

    You actually wonder if Wenger has been sleeping at the wheel for the last 3 years.

  118. Dissenter

    Paulinho
    Are you happy that Henry preferred the lush comforts of a studio than be in the tumble of real club management?

    Henry is just another Gary Neville-goes-to-Valencia waiting to happen.
    We need to realize that management is different from commenting a nice studio. Henry took the easy path, why should we reward him with a job that’s too big for him.

  119. WengerEagle

    If we’re being clever about who we sign I would look to Italy. Clubs there simply can’t afford to be financially picky.

    Salah was bought for less than £40 million despite two excellent seasons at Roma and a very good half season spell at Fiorentina.

    Players like Felipe Anderson, Alejandro Gomez, Perisic, Perotti, Mertens could be got for relatively cheap, all would improve us.

  120. Guns of Hackney

    Going to jump in on Jack here myself. Horrible little player with absolutely no class to his game.

    He reminds me of the Sunday leaguer who for 6 days a week is an estate agent but on a Sunday turns up attempting to boss the entire Hackney Marshes.

    Jack is a mid table player…just not a prem mid table player. Championship is his level. Possibly the evo stick league.

  121. Dissenter

    Wenger Eagle
    I have to say that everything I see Roberto Firmino play for Liverpool, I just remember all th the good things you used to say about him 3 years befor he came to England
    You were the Firmino guy before anyone else I know.
    You’re right, nothing is a secret anymore. The scout is overrated these days.