Wenger hemorrhaging AFC cash, the number is quite unbelievable

by .

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Everyone loves a big number to keep focus on what’s going on at Arsenal. I don’t mean to pile pressure onto our faltering manager, but I think a few myths need to be busted about what he’s offering to the club these days, because his ability to turn a profit has diminished at quite a alarming pace. This post aims to showcase just what a state we’re in.

Prizes:

Firstly, let’s look at the Champions League. A competition which Wenger has often claimed the mere qualification is a trophy. Well, that trophy isn’t on offer this year. Instead, we’re suffering the indignity of Spursday Night Europa League. The difference in prize money is quite large. If we make it to the last 16 on 4 wins and 2 draws, we’ll earn £5.6m.

Prize Money for achieving last 16 of UCL: £36m

Prize Money for hitting same height in Europa: £5.6m

Net Loss: -£30.4m

Players:

Next up, let’s look at the players we have that are currently leaving on free transfers, based on the big man’s say so. I’ll be straight up, we’re not getting anything for Per or Santi. We should be getting something for Jack (£20m), Chambo (£30m), Sanchez (£60m) and Ozil (£40m).

Total Loss: -£150m (as of Wenger’s stance that they’re all staying)

Deadwood Wages:

Now let’s take a look at the problem Alfred called out in the podcast, surplus wages. We have, what, 33 players in our squad? Many of them overpaid to the point they can’t be moved on. We saw Jenkinson move to play with Harry Redknapp because his deal is simply too rich to handle for Premier League clubs. Worth remembering we were in EXACTLY the same position in 2011 after project youth. I have 9 players that class as deadwood. The two richest would be

Worth remembering we were in EXACTLY the same position in 2011 after project youth. I have 9 players that I class as deadwood. The two richest would be Santi, because he’s broken, and Theo because when one of your highest paid players is a bench merchant, you’d clearly rather not have him around. Others that made the cut were Joel Campbell who is back again, Kieran Gibbs who I was told earns more than the £65k a week I have him on (£80k), along with Ospina, Debuchy, Perez, and Wilshere. Total wage expenditure there is £625k a week, I’ve left Jenks in there because I have my doubts Birmingham are paying full whack.

Total cost: £32.5m

All of that money, added together in my clever little spreadsheet takes Arsenal’s potential losses for the year to a whopping £212,885,227.

Now, you can split hairs on my numbers, but what you can’t do is tell me that there is anyway you can look at those figures and not be absolutely shocked at how badly run we are under Arsene Wenger, Director Of Football.

I didn’t even get into the figures of what we’re losing on players who’d have become better players under better managers. Let’s be real here, a contracted Alexis is a £100m player in this market. Jack Wilshere is a £50m player if he progresses. Kieran Gibbs, Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain, Aaron Ramsey, Theo Walcott… would all be worth a lot more under better management.

We are not only a shambles on the pitch, we’re the same off it. Arsenal are in the process of overseeing one of the least effective summers of all time, and what makes it worse, is next year, we’re going to lose 6 players on free transfers.

Right, as I did all this lovely math for you, jump on The Arsenal Opinion podcast, subscribe, and leave a nice 5 star rating.

We talk about Ozil and his negative press, we pick through the summer, and we discuss how trouble is brewing strong for AFC.

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518 Responses to “Wenger hemorrhaging AFC cash, the number is quite unbelievable”

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  1. Pierre

    Rhys jagger
    “When you look at what they paid for Lloris, Verthonghen, Alderweireld, Dembele, Wanyama and Davies you can only applaud their scouting and dealmaking in seasons past.”

    People should give up preaching to all how great spurs are doing under Pochettino.. He’s won nothing, and will continue to win nothing because the team will be broken up a year from now and he will depart…
    In the meantime The Arsenal will continue to win countless trophies with a supposedly inept manager and a team with no leaders, who can’t defend and ozil who despite creating 10 chances in the first 2 games was according to Pedro “absolutely awful again”…and the rest are all “dross”… Oh, and we play “crab football”..

  2. Don

    Guns

    United ended Liverpools dominance mate not graham.
    But let’s say it was graham, it was then he that allowed uniteds dominance until Wenger came along

    Money, fergie pissed away more money by 98 than he was getting in the late 80s. Everyone was. The game changed along with the economy and currency.

    Yes Wenger has had more cracks of the whip in Europe than any other arsenal manager and that will always be the big hole on his cv.
    So did fergie though
    He won twice out of what? 19 attempts?
    Every manager gets more chances to win it these days
    What graham didn’t ha e to contend with was oil clubs
    He also had first refusal on any London based player as we were londons undisputed no1 club at the time.

    We have argued this to death in the last few months and I’m not discrediting graham and his achievements but put into context, Wenger’s sides were better sides who played better football and would have beaten or 89, 91 sides

  3. Pierre

    Highbury legend
    “” Apart from them there isn’t much between The Arsenal, city, Spuds and Liverpool.”

    f*cking priceless.”

    I suppose the main difference is that we won a trophy again and they remained trophy less..

    Yep fcking priceless

  4. R.S.P.C.Arsenal

    Don

    I’m getting the word midget !

    Your little man syndrome of protecting a dead manager is madness

    For Wenger
    I’m getting the word nonce ….as Clinton would say

  5. R.S.P.C.Arsenal

    Pierre

    We are the biggest London club in terms of winning trophies

    However Chelsea are better having won the big cup once

  6. Carts

    Puma9 would much rather control the narrative of this blog than engage without embarrassing him/herself.

    When are people going to get it through their heads that this is an open forum for all kinds of discussion about Arsenal.

    If you think it’s to negative then jog on. The same way I don’t read untold is the same way I prefer LG.

    Too many sensitive bitches these days. All butt-hurt and shit!

  7. S.Asoa

    Being nice and “decent” should not be being planks .
    1- As someone correctly put Wenger is a money grabbing charlatan who is ruining the Club
    2- Kroenke is another liability because he let an obvious Charlatan stay on . AFC has become an universal joke . So forget the alibis to absolve Kroenke and give this carrot wig the works at his next appearance.
    3- Against sane arguments we have 3-4 apologists deflecting the thread like any paid trolls would do . A couple were called as Wenger’s illegitimates ,but think they are worse – are prostitutes on pay by Le Immoral Prof

  8. WestLondonGoon

    United ended Liverpool’s dominance…..you do realise that it was Merseyside’s dominance don’t you Don? For the 8 years before we won in ’89, Liverpool AND Everton had won the league. It was like a cartel of Merseyside football.

    Arsenal then won it 2 out of the next 3, then United hit the jackpot with the class of 92 and everything, as they say, is history.

    The change of the back pass law threw a serious spanner in the works of Liverpool.

  9. WestLondonGoon

    And Don

    You’re trying to rewrite Arsenal’s history under Graham but you were only 4 when we won the league in 1989, 10 when he left the club. You can’t have any knowledge about life under George and the feeling he brought to the club when we finally won the league again after 18 years of championship drought.

    Like now, during that time we had won a few cups, but suddenly the focus changed and Graham built a team that was concentrated on winning the league. It was built on functional players who did their job with discipline; players like Kevin Richardson who anchored the midfield and allowed more flamboyant team mates like Rocky, Brian Marwood, Mickey Thomas and Merse to reap the rewards. He gave us an edge which allowed us to break the dominance of the Merseyside teams that had won the league for the previous 9 years.

    We travelled to away grounds knowing that we had a better than average chance of bring all the points back to London. And no, those champion teams weren’t boring to watch, often we played with 2 wingers, home and away. We were top or 2nd top lague scorers, but Graham’s teams also knew how, and when, to close a match down and nulify the opposition attacks.

    You were 4 in 1989, and obviosly haven’t done any research into what you are commenting on. I just don’t think you understand because you didn’t live those times.

  10. Pedro

    Puma, another example of how I let people from that other website on here, they come on with the pretence of being civil, looking to educate, and it always ends the same way. Abusive childish behaviour when there’s no argument.

    Amazing how many people have been going off at this post today, considering how many numbers I used.

  11. Pedro

    Don, reference your:

    ‘Everyone thinks they have the answers after the fact’

    The problem is, everyone has answers before the facts. Arsene Wenger hasn’t been a hindsight issue for over ten years. Entirely predictable.

  12. Pedro

    Guns, amen, I find it really amusing that Puma thinks everyone agrees with me… totally the opposite. That’s why the comment sections works. Because no one agrees

  13. Don

    West London

    Fair point. You’re right I wasn’t old enough to savour the feeling it brought. I’m sure it was fantastic and I’m not belittling grahams achievements. Not at all. And I never once said it was boring football but it wasn’t the brand that Wenger delivered. Obviously I’m slightly biased as in my time of supporting Arsenal I’ve only known graham to have reached mid table and a season of Bruce rioch.
    And I’m not even defending Wenger’s recent history. I agree it’s time for him to go but to label him senile or a goon or as I’ve seen before le senile old cunt or old French twat, its a bit fucking rich to sit in a comfy arm chair and call names to a man that has given his all to deliver what he thinks is the best for AFC. Even if I don’t agree with his decisions and think he should go, he deserves, at the very very least that acknowledgement. Not that he will get it

    And Pedro, I don’t comment anywhere else.

  14. Don

    Pedro

    None of us knew he was playing bellerin at RWB!!!
    He’s still got the odd curve ball in him
    Again, I agree he needs to go. He shouldn’t have been given the extra two years in my book. It’s done. Go out on a relative high after the Chelsea final. When have I said any different? But for gods sake the lack of respect is astounding!!

  15. Dissenter

    Don
    You haven’t been around here ling enough to know the amount of dissenting voices we have here.
    Pedro gets grief all the time about Gazidis and other stuff. I )and many others disagreed with him about the “soft-tissue injury” debate.

    You and your ilk; Sanmi, Pierre, Puma idiot etc keep coming here to say Pedro’s blog is so bad …yet you can’t stop coming back to post.

    Try the anti-Wenger angle an untold and see how long it takes to shut you down.

  16. Emiratesstroller

    Pedro

    This summer is highlighting just how mismanaged as a club are and that is now just directed at the football side of business.

    We know that the club is rudderless with a distant landlord whose input into
    the way that the club is run is a flat zero apart from perhaps his investment in
    Billy Bean’s computer programme, which has proven fairly worthless when it
    comes to buying footballers.

    The club has failed to renegotiate contracts for the three players who they want to give contract extensions. As things stand if contracts for Sanchez, Ozil
    and Ox are not signed by next Monday or the players are sold we stand to lose
    them next summer on Bosman.

    The two players we have managed to sell are Szczesny and Gabriel both of whom have been sold at below mar even ket prices for equivalent players. The only consolation is that they are off payroll. In the case of Szczesny he is probably now a better player than the two goalkeepers we have on books.

    We have loaned out also Martinez and Jenkinson. Neither of these two players
    are even players to sit on bench. Jenkinson it would seem has managed somewhere along the line to extend his contract by a further three years!

    This leaves unresolved the contracts of Gibbs, Perez and Debuchy. All three are proving difficult to shift and costing us at least £200K pw. The way matters
    are developing we are unlikely to get a transfer fee for any of them.

    Cazorla and Campbell are both out with long term injuries so there is little
    point in registering either of them for this season or at least until January.

    It is also clear that Chambers, Wilshire and Akpom are considered surplus
    to requirements. They did not travel to Far east and have been playing with
    U23s.

    When you look at overall situation we have now oldest squad from any of last
    season’s top seven finishers with average age of 27+. Messrs Cech, Mertesacker and Cazorla are past their best.

    So you have to ask the question do the club plan to strengthen the team/squad
    this summer and how many of the club’s better players will still be at the club
    in 2018/9?

    My guess is that if current owner, CEO and Wenger are still at Arsenal we will
    become a lower tier club, which has not only underperformed but seriously
    depleted its financial resources.

  17. Don

    Dissenter

    Woooah there. Find one post where I’ve said the blog is bad? I haven’t said that once. If it were bad I wouldn’t come back. I don’t agree with a lot of the points he makes but at least he can allow himself to enjoy an arsenal victory wether Wenger is at the helm or not. Plenty of the posters in the comments section would rather see Arsenal relegated than win the league with Wenger in charge
    This is being flipped around. You see I’m not obsessed with Wenger.
    I just defend the man’s legacy. It’s the Wenger out lot that are obsessed, to the point where they are angered by an arsenal victory while he’s in charge. If anything is childish, it that mentality and that view

  18. Pedro

    Don, when the King outstays his welcome… you know, things don’t go well.

    Wenger has outstayed his welcome by over 5 years.

    It’s going to get nasty this year and that’s understandable. He’s getting in the way of progress and he’s putting systems in place to protect his power structure.

  19. Marko

    In the meantime The Arsenal will continue to win countless trophies with a supposedly inept manager and a team with no leaders,

    Countless? I’ll help you out it’s 3. 3 in 4 years if you forget the barren decade otherwise it’s 3 in 14 years. Zero progress made in Europe since ’06 and zero league title challenges in 13 going on 14 years

  20. Pedro

    Dissenter, the soft tissue injury debate was bang on. That’s sport science… we hired in a Shad and now look at us, looking pretty damn excellent comparably.

  21. Pedro

    Catalyst for change came from a good place. What was planned, versus what happened… well, shows how impotent Gazidis is.

    Hopefully Wenger’s poor form this window means we only have 2 years left.

  22. Pedro

    ES, Wenger is the core issue… once he goes, we’ll become elite. That I’m sure of.

    DoF, proper infrastructure, less powerful manager, improvement everywhere.

  23. Pedro

    Exactly Marko, whole point of a comments section is that people disagree… sometimes it gets a bit heated but it’s been pretty good with a choice few bans over the last few weeks.

  24. Gunner2301

    Guns

    I disagree with the flip flopper comment if you remember back to the Geoff and Pedro days Pedro was more positive Geoff more negative so there was balance and when a roasting was needed Geoff stepped up. I see Pedro trying to present balance as a single person hence the appearance of flip flopping but over recent years things have obviously descended into farce at Arsenal he has no choice but to call it out. With all the brainwahsed Wenger arse lickers out there nobody ekse is presenting the opposing view on a consistent basis.

  25. Gunner2301

    Highbury

    I stopped going about 6-7 years ago the writing was on the wall. All those who were sounding the alarm back then have been proven right season after season.

    WENGET OUT!

  26. Don

    Pedro

    Again I haven’t said anything different. If you read my comments post stoke you’ll have noticed that.
    I want Arsenal to win as much as if it more than any Wenger hater. The difference is, and this is crucial, I want Arsenal to win every time We play no matter who is in charge. They don’t. Their support is conditional and for me that’s wrong.

  27. WestLondonGoon

    Don

    Your bias towards what ‘you know’ is leading you to make some wild, and incorrect claims. Like having the pick of the players and having money to spend; it just isn’t true, and was always one of the big gripes the fans had with the club: we wouldn’t pay the wages others paid.

    Here’s a for instance, in 1988, Arsenal wanted Tony Cottee from West Ham, we had a bid accepted and it was all over the papers. At the time I used to work in the gym our club doctor, Leo Crane used to go to and I’d often talk to him about the club as he knew my uncle well, anyway to cut to the chase, he had performed the medical on Cottee and announced him fit, and when I asked him, he told me that he should be signing that afternoon. He signed for Everton next day for an extra £100 a week and £25 goal bonus which Arsenal had refused to equal. He scored a hat-trick on his Everton debut. It’s ridiculous amounts in today’s money, but we were ‘tight’ club in the eyes of the fans.

  28. S.Asoa

    Pedro
    Nice to have you around for so long mate
    and
    Thanks for everything. So much like the fidlers in the Titanic movie. Hope we stull afloat when Le Peste finally dies – for the sake of us all who kept the faith and the battle for AFC ( and IMPOSTER CHARLATAN OUT )

  29. Dissenter

    Don
    Very well.
    How do you think Wilshere did yesterday?… with the fighting little kids and all.
    He’s mentally done as well as physically broken.
    Opposition players just have to tackle him hard and he;s off losing his head. He wont last a proper game in the league ‘cos he will be off to an early shower.

  30. Marko

    Oh man if people like puma think Pedro is bad they should have been here back when Geoff was posting and gambon was spamming the comments. They’d of thrown their internets out the window

  31. Don

    Pedro

    Don, when the King outstays his welcome… you know, things don’t go well.

    Someone watched Prometheus last night

  32. Pedro

    S.Asoa, we’ll be here and it’ll be golden!

    CL within 5 years of him going.

    Don, commentating on other people’s support is a bit meh… I want us to win every game, some people would rather take the short term hit of shit to move him on a bit quicker.

  33. Marko

    They don’t. Their support is conditional and for me that’s wrong.

    Who’s this they you speak of? And honestly it’s a minority. Cheering for the team to lose and saying I told you so when we lose isn’t the same thing. I don’t cheer when we lose in fact I don’t feel anything when we lose cause I half expect it every time we play but I absolutely will I told you so after a defeat cause it’s ground hog day and people are still defending the regime for some reason. I won’t gloat I feel no happiness when we lose.

  34. OleGunner

    Insane that this Puma fella thinks Le-grove is a propaganda machine that affects Arsenal ability to churn out positive results.

    What the hell am I reading?!

    If any player or club official read the blog and it affected their ability, they shouldn’t be in the sport in the first place (hint, this isn’t the case; our manager is just supremely passed it).

    Wow the AKB’s are a deluded bunch and such poor deflectors of the truth of Arsenal lmao

  35. seniorgooner

    Wengerspin has given out such a load of BS regarding this seasons transfers. trying to calm the supporters who have not seen through him, The latest leak that Mustafi is for sale for 35 million confirms his failed policy, if Musafi goes we should replace him with Van Dyk or some of similar calibre. the wages policy should be incentive base not giving mind blowing basic salaries. Due to EPL accounting procedures on paper we would not show the losses Alexis is written down to 12 million wilshire is nothing as are Jenks and Gibbs and Theo is around 2 million so they can cover up the true picture

  36. Cesc Appeal

    #BringBackTheBear

    He can just have a returning post of ‘I told you so’ a thousand times.

    Pedro, you triggering pro-Wenger fans again?

  37. BillikenGooner

    I’ve thought the guy is senile for awhile, but with his statements about a fundamental change in how contracts are going to done in the future and how players will run them down and become Free Agents regularly…

    in the same season that we see record deals and average players moving for fortunes…

    and he wants to take the Club down the path of what? Being the first to head down this Brave New Future? Accept that we will not get money back on some of our top players because he wants to make another of his “moral” stands against an inflated market?

    If Stan is really the quiet businessman who is only out to make a buck on the Club, then I don’t see how he can let this stand… well, other than he is scared of or in love with Wenger, like everyone is at Arsenal.

  38. Pedro

    CA, people going nuts on Twitter.

    ‘BULLSHIT’

    With no counter as to why…

    I can’t bring back the bear, he’s too aggressive.

  39. Don

    West London

    Look. I get it. You love graham but my Comments are hardly wild
    Arsenal were considered londons biggest club in the 80’s. I’m not discrediting graham but the game was different then.
    Every club had far less money than it does now
    Also Wenger didn’t just revolutionise Arsenal. He changed the British game. He was the first foreigner to win the league. He won it in his first full season and spent £7m
    Hardly fortunes even by the standards of the times. He also went a season unbeaten and delivered (for me) the most sumptuous football the premier league has witnessed. He made Arsenal synonymous with playing the beautiful game. Again I’m biased for obvious reasons but I know plenty of older fans that agree

  40. Don

    Marko

    I’m not including you in that but we both know there are plenty of posters here that genuinely savour an arsenal loss.
    You know it.

  41. Guns of Hackney

    Gunner 23

    The flip flopper comment was more tongue in cheek but Peter and myself have had the odd cross word here and there but…ultimately, he writes the blog, takes the time and entertains people like me every day. For that, I have the upmost respect for him and what he does.

    The problem Peter has is that because his blog acts as a sounding board for any old mental idiot that gets 5 mins with a keyboard, he takes a lot of our frustrations head on. It’s not fair and I have been as guilty as anyone for giving Peter the business on occasion when I’ve disagreed with his posts or comments.

    The thing about this blog is it’s a victim of its own success…now Peter has almost become a surrogate mother hen for the maniacs on here.

    We are all Arsenal supporters in one way or another. Some overseas, some who like me are dissolutioned and jaded, some who still go to games and some who are ardent Wenger fans…all different but generally, Arsenal in some way or another.

    Jeez, Guns of Hackney has gone soft.

  42. R.S.P.C.Arsenal

    Don
    6-2
    The score we beat villa with tiny woodcock scoring

    I guess u bluff

    More like
    4-4
    The score we drew with pool
    Aa23 netting 4

  43. HighburyLegend

    @Don : you do realize that ugly results are the one and only way to get rid of wenger at the moment ?? Probably not, but you’re not the only one…

    For me it’s the same than marko, I don’t feel anything anymore, victory or losses.
    Thanks to who ??

  44. Carts

    You can learn a lot from the likes of Puma.

    If that pleb ever got himself to a managerial position you can bet the workforce will hate his face.

  45. Cesc Appeal

    Pedro

    Does make you laugh doesn’t it, either they are too thick or too lazy to come back with a valid answer. Like when someone stands up and presents a point politically (whether you agree with it or not) and some knobhead tries to shut it down by saying ‘you are spreading hate’ or ‘that is racist’ and they have no statistics, no evidence, no fact, nothing.

    Pretty much the same with you today, you are spreading negativity etc, they base their arguments in virtue when you try to deal in fact and evidence.

    F**k them. Sick of the pro-Wenger fans, they can swivel. Do not entertain them at all just use the salt from their tears on your chips.

  46. Leftsidesanch

    If Wenger tried to do something differently following last season and it didn’t work then fair dos. He hasn’t succeeded in the last 14 attempts and still amazingly persists with the same methods expecting different results.

  47. Cesc Appeal

    Pedro

    You need to resurrect the bear GoT style.

    If the pro-Wenger rabble think you are bad. F**k me they would piss their pants at Geoff.

  48. Don

    HL

    Whatever, I still won’t take any joy from an arsenal loss.

    Rspca a

    What’s that got to do with anything I’ve said??

    Is puma9 banned now?

  49. Cesc Appeal

    Wenger is a bluebottle trying to get out of a window. Each swoop and crash into glass represents a different season.

  50. Don

    Tony D

    Which part? I wasn’t exactly slating the guy rather just pointing out where I think the early Wenger years supersceded graham’s

  51. WestLondonGoon

    Don

    You really don’t have to educate me on Arsenal’s history, I was there, Yes he didn’t spend fortunes but there are 2 things here that perhaps miscue that; firstly the club had bought Denis Bergkamp only a year before Rioch’s departure, and secondly, there was no transfer window back then; clubs were free to buy at any time they wished. Whether Vieira was a Wenger buy or not is a matter of some debate, but he did arrive 2 months ahead of Wenger. Aprt from the successes, we bought a fair few duds around the same time, but if there was a shortfall on the pitch, we just went out and bought a replacement; the manager was backed by the board (led by Dein) in a way that no other Arsenal manager had been backed before. Everything was set up to maximise success on the pitch. Once the transfer window came in, and we had to plan our transfers to last until the next window opened, we became a lot less effcient in our buying.

    He brought some fantastic football, that cannot be denied, but comparing those sides then to how we play today, and it looks like a completely different guy is setting up the team. Thats the thing that rankles people; he gave us teams and football like those in the early 2000s, and now he is serving up confused line ups, teams repeating the same mistakes season after season, a total lack of flexibility. ridiculous statements on how he sees football will be one day, and obviously pandering to certain players to the detriment of the team as a whole. He ignores his own failings and those of his favorites, but is ready to take a near £200k a week to do it.

    The club is bigger than him.

  52. shaun

    Wenger has had more than enough chances and it’s plain to see he will not change.what he has is an average team who can possibly win a domestic cup .why has there not been more effort to move players on so that he can use those funds to improve the team.there is no excuse it’s just lazy bad management of the team as he does not really care as long as he is in charge .it is not like the fans can force any real change as there is enough fans who amazingly believe in what he is doing and as long as the money keeps rolling in he does not have to change anything .This season will be more of the same some highs but probably more despair .the fans are not actually asking a lot we just want the obvious failings addressed like the defense and a proper defensive midfielder but wenger just won’t fix the obvious and that is why he gets so much stick

  53. Don

    West London

    I’m not saying anything to the contrary. He’s like a different guy. Pat Rice leaving seems to
    Have pushed him over the edge. He just hasn’t been the same since for me.
    Either way he’s still here. He’s Arsenal manager and I’ll support him until he goes. When that day comes then I’ll cheer on whoever takes over.
    See I’m not cheering for Wenger. I’m cheering for Arsenal. And yes I get that if we lose badly over a season he will go. But so will half our players if we finish tenth. We won’t be able to attract top talent any more and we could just end up like Liverpool
    If he keeps the club in a high position then we may have some decent players in the side, more money, can attract a better standard of player and manager.
    Arsenal getting destroyed all season is not the only way to skin this cat.
    Maybe if the Wenger out lot were so inclined they would actually stop attending. Put their money where their mouths are and hit the club where it hurts
    They take notice of that I assure you.

  54. HighburyLegend

    Don you don’t get it (but once again you’re not the only one) : when we laugh after a defeat, it’s because we are happy to see wenger in “trouble” (big word, I know lol), and not because we are happy to lose.

  55. Gunner2301

    Guns

    I get your point

    Don 15:36

    I really don’t understand how you can make this post and not see the contrast with what is going on today.

    I’m sure the majority here support Arsenal just not Wenger. Many were here long before him and will be here long after him my support for the club comes first which is why I can’t be seduced by the bullshit Wenger is spouting.

    How you can’t see that buying into 4th place is a trophy devalues the intelligence of the fans but many have bought into it. Show me another manager who routinely disrespects and shows contempt for his own fans? A few years ago Wenger was calling for serious financial backers for PSG while keeping us on a sustainable model. Now he can’t compete with oil money? Hes smoking crsck. Its just one long merrygoround and the Wengerites fall for it every time.

  56. Don

    West London

    Also, Wenger transformed bergkamp. He was different level once Wenger came and got us to play the ball on the ground.

  57. Wallace

    WLG

    “Whether Vieira was a Wenger buy or not is a matter of some debate”

    it is? has someone been trying to lay it on Ken Friar again?

  58. Don

    2301

    Course it’s bull shit
    It’s excuse making. I’m not saying it’s anything else.

    Can I make this any clearer?

    ARSENAL FC NEED A NEW MANAGER!!!!
    Ok???
    I just won’t cheer when we lose and I won’t pretend like Wenger is shit it that his legacy does not exist.
    Don’t forget Newcastle and Leeds got relegated in the time that he took over the job and they were better than us.

  59. Redtruth

    Don

    Wenger sides would have beaten the 89 and 91 sides…lol..what a f***** idiot..

    Wenger sides had the ageing 89 and 91 defence playing for him…lol

  60. Gunner2301

    Don

    So by you saying you’ll support him till he goes that means there is nothing he could do to merit you not supporting him. So even as the board are sacking him for 10 straight defeats you’re still supporting him? By that definition you’re really a Wenger supporter then not an Arsenal supporter.

    If I see any owner player or staff taking actions or performing in such a way that is detrimental to my club I’m not supporting them because my club comes first.

    You need to rationalise your argument because I think you’re confused and I’m not being disrespectful to you.

  61. Wallace

    tits

    I still love to watch Ozil play, but have accepted that he’s never going to be the influential player he could have been. there was a point near the beginning of his third season when I thought he was fully adjusted to the demands of the league and was ready to be a Pires-type gamechanger on a consistent basis, but for whatever reason he was unable to maintain that level. now I think Mahrez would offer us more.

  62. R.S.P.C.Arsenal

    I’ve spent many years travelling to home am away games across Europe

    I feel im entitled to have my view
    My current view is Wenger must go at any cost

    To achieve that defeats an lots of them are the only way to destabilise. Wenger

    To bring that statue down

    Nothing else has worked

    Defeats equals wis

  63. Wallace

    not sure about whoever it was praising GG’s man-management. he could definitely have treated Rocky better than he did, and Mickey Thomas doesn’t have much nice to say about him.

  64. WestLondonGoon

    Don

    You’re comparing Rioch and Wenger there, which isn’t a debate and why Rioch was sacked.

    But when Wenger comes out with statements like ‘I built this club’, I couldn’t imagine any of our great managers coming out an showing such disdain towards our great history.

    Perhaps he should be reminded who he is, where he came from, and what he represnts, to coin an ex-manager.

  65. Emiratesstroller

    Pedro

    Arsenal [the institution] is an elite club as I suggested last week. In the right hands it can be once again a success on the football pitch.

    Wenger is not the only problem, because with the right owner, board of directors and CEO he would not have survived.

    Following my discussion with someone in the City he agreed with my opinion
    that the club could be sold this season if the right offer is made. American business people are in general unsentimental when it comes to money.

    Kronke does not have a record of selling his assets, but on the other hand all
    apart from Arsenal are based in USA. If the club becomes a diminishing asset
    which is likely the way it is currently run then there is no reason why he would want to keep it.

    There are we know at least two very rich businessman interested in buying the club and my guess is others might materialise in the future.

    The club does not need to build a new stadium or training ground so apart from buying the club a potential investor need only concern himself with
    recruiting the right management and investing in the team.

  66. Gunner2301

    Don

    Nobodies saying he doesn’t have a legacy even though the longer he stays the more damage he is doing to it. So if we need a new manage why are you still supporting the only man that is prevent ting that from happening? I don’t understand. Don’t you see that other people that are thinking like you are keeping him there?

    You know if hes the wrong manager as you concede the longer he stays the more damage he’s doing and digging us into a bigger hole making it immeasurably more difficult for the next manager? So why say you support him?

    By admitting he’s not the right man you’ve already lowered your support for him below what he would expect you’re just not going as far as some of us but you’re half way there already. Which seems indecisive to me.

  67. HighburyLegend

    “I’ll never understand that. Like I said. That means your support is conditional. Mines isn’t.”
    That means you also give your unconditionnal support to AW.

  68. Don

    West London
    He’s going over the top there a bit but he built the training ground
    He had the stadium built too
    That will have left us in a great financial poison to focus on strengthening the team once he’s gone

  69. Wallace

    Gunner2301

    “So if we need a new manage why are you still supporting the only man that is prevent ting that from happening? I don’t understand. Don’t you see that other people that are thinking like you are keeping him there?”

    we are? I think I’m supporting the team, of which Wenger is the manager. I don’t think my view on Wenger has any bearing whatsoever on whether he remains manager or not. that’s for the people who employ him to decide.

  70. Don

    HL

    No it doesn’t. You’re putting words in my mouth.
    Look you’re all painting a doomsday picture
    We finished 5th for the first time in 20 years
    He needs to go but until he does I won’t retract my support for the team just because I feel the manager isn’t doing as good as I think he could. It’s that simple.
    If we finish tenth then that’s a different story but I won’t hope for us to finish tenth EVER just to get rid of a manager and certainly not a club legend.
    Seeeemples

  71. Emiratesstroller

    Arsenal’s wage bill both when it comes to management, coaches and players is
    not significantly different to that of most other major clubs in England and Europe.

    So with the right owner the club can compete with the likes of Man Utd, Chelsea, Bayern Munich, Barcelona and Real Madrid when it comes to recruitment of top management.

    Furthermore with an owner prepared to invest in players and showing the right ambition I doubt that there are many who would not be prepared to move to London and join us.

  72. Don

    2301

    I’m not supporting him, I’m supporting the team.
    Also. He’s not the only man preventing that from happening. You seem to be deliberately ignoring the people with the power to end his time with the club.
    Vent your anger at them. They want to perpetuate mediocrity. At least he wants to win. Even if his methods are now outdated and misguided

  73. Redtruth

    The team is shit and not fit for purpose which is all down to Wenger.

    Players who are not fit to wear the shirt should not be encouraged but hounded out the club.

  74. Don

    2301

    I don’t care about Wenger’s views on my support. I won’t go to games and boo. I won’t fly banners to get him out.
    And it’s not indecisive at all.
    It’s very very simple. I’m an arsenal suppprter
    I watch our games and I hope we win, every single time. That’s all there is to it.
    I have players that I prefer and views on formation but I couldn’t give a shit really if we are winning.

  75. Elmo

    Don

    “See I’m not cheering for Wenger. I’m cheering for Arsenal. And yes I get that if we lose badly over a season he will go. But so will half our players if we finish tenth. We won’t be able to attract top talent any more and we could just end up like Liverpool
    If he keeps the club in a high position then we may have some decent players in the side, more money, can attract a better standard of player and manager.”

    I think the problem now, though, is that while it was almost universally accepted previously that Wenger would leave us in a good state when he eventually retired or moved on, it’s increasingly likely that it will be the very reverse. People were more willing to turn a blind eye to Wenger’s fixations (Project Youth; Project ‘Egalitarian Wage Structure’; Project ‘Don’t spend money because the football bubble is about to explode and untainted Arsenal will emerge kings from the rubble’) when it appeared he was at least a reliable steward of the interests of the club, had relatively fewer resources to work with, and that when he left the successor would have a talented backbone of a team to work around, £100m+ in the bank to reforge the squad with, and the allure of CL football to attract players.

    The mismanagement, particularly off the field, over the last 3-4 years has left a situation where if Wenger were to fail badly this season, a successor would join a club where the star names of the first XI would be leaving for nothing, most of the accumulated cash in the bank from previous years of parsimony had been spent on sub-elite players, a surfeit of players on unrealistically high wages remained, and the team was 2 years out of the CL. In other words, if the club were forced to sack him this season, there would be an almighty mess to clean up in order to aspire to compete again at some point in the future. Ultimately it’s the owners fault for offering him a new contract this summer, and for allowing the mistakes made to snowball out of control, but many fans will focus their frustration on the man who is making the decisions that directly impact the team on the field.

  76. Emiratesstroller

    One final point if the club does not sell Sanchez, Ozil and Ox in the next six days they will leave on a Bosman next summer.

    When you factor in all the other players who will need replacement in July 2018 that is a major rebuilding job likely to cost well in excess of £250 million.

    I doubt that the club has the resources to cover that bill and I believe that Kronke will be unwilling to invest his own money in such a project.

    The choice then is does he sell the club and allow someone else to take on the
    project.

    My guess is that if Kronke were to sell the club Wenger would leave as well
    rather than be pushed. That would apply to his coaching team as well.

    It might take the new owner two to three years to rebuild the team, but it would be at least a blank canvas.

  77. HighburyLegend

    Don I may be wrong, but something tells me that you don’t undergo this awful situation since more than 10 years, like most of us here…
    No f*cking way lol

  78. WestLondonGoon

    The club is already becoming a harder sell to corporate clients on matchdays, and nezt season there will be a shiny, newer stadium just a few miles up the road for those people to frequent. If they have CL and we don’t, we will be even harder to sell.

  79. Redtruth

    Don, Pierre, Champagne charlie, Alexanderhenry, Wallace, Emiratesstroller and Marc are a breed apart and should form their own club where they can celebrate winning the 4th place trophy to their hearts content..

  80. Phallasaurus

    @Elmo 17:00

    Totally agree, and things are going to get a lot worse before getting any better, at this point theyll have to. Slow demise hasn’t shifted the fucker so only utter failure will do so now.

    What a fucking shameful state of affairs.

    The longer this Kronke/Wenger farce continues the more we will be dependent on a generous benefactor ultimately rescuing us.

    Question is how low and broken will we be before the Wig sells?

  81. Cesc Appeal

    Rumours starting to surface around (nowhere reputable as of yet but fits the rumours people have been saying all summer) that are position is starting weaken with regards to Sanchez. Gone from no sale to £70 Million and he is yours, apparently.

    If we are going to sell we need to do as soon as possible and reinvest, be talking to a replacement right now.

  82. Don

    CA
    Would go straight out and get dijk and goretzka

    We have enough capabilities going forward to score goals. Even without Sanchez others will step up

  83. Marko

    Wenger coming out and saying he’s happy with his transfer business lays bare the problem. Honestly otherwise if he wasn’t happy and he wanted more from Stan or there existed some restrictions wouldn’t he come out ala Benitez and say he wasn’t happy. He’s adverse to spending afraid to compete and has basically distinguished any hope of incomings the last 9 days

  84. Phallasaurus

    With the inevitable season ahead things could well turn very toxic very quick. I believe both Wenger & upstairs have either underestimated or nother properly considered the change of fans sentiment.

    From disappointment to despair to anger, goodwill credit is pretty much up apart from the usual flat earthers’.

    Reckon Redruth is about right with his timescale as by then our season will be pretty much over.

  85. Marko

    If we are going to sell we need to do as soon as possible and reinvest, be talking to a replacement right now.

    Don’t be surprised if we drag it out and pocket the money. Besides would you trust these fuckers to reinvest it? Keep in mind that even when we were keeping Sanchez we still probably needed someone like Lemar so if Alexis goes we’d effectively need two

  86. Cesc Appeal

    Don

    That may be the way, not necessarily a like for like replacement but spread it out a bit over a couple of positions.

    At this point though we should already have secured a CDM.

    I am a fan of Xhaka but I really am not sure he is going to work in a 3-4-2-1 or 3-4-3, basically needs a 4-5-1 with two No.8’s either side of him.

    When you look at Chelsea and Spurs who really made that formation work their pairings (first choice) were Kante and Matic and Wanyama and Dembele for Spurs. Very balanced, very well rounded, no glaring weaknesses and is the heart of the team. This systems needs good wing backs and a good central midfield to thrive, that is why Spurs looked great. Best full backs in the league and best central midfield pairing last year.

  87. kristoman

    Don
    August 22, 2017 15:17:58
    Pedro
    Again I haven’t said anything
    different. If you read my
    comments post stoke you’ll
    have noticed that.
    I want Arsenal to win as much
    as if it more than any Wenger
    hater. The difference is, and
    this is crucial, I want Arsenal to
    win every time We play no
    matter who is in charge. They
    don’t. Their support is
    conditional and for me that’s
    wrong.

    Don there is a difference btw wanting your team to lose and citing an expectation of match (seeing what we all know we are going to see in a match because wenger wouldn’t change)
    Take for example. Chelsea vs totteham match. Conte employ to overload the midfield to stiffle totteham attack and it work a treat. This is what we are talking about you should change plans according to opponent.

  88. Bob N16

    In complete agreement Don, I never get satisfaction from an Arsenal defeat, ever.
    GG days gave me lots of joy but whether it was the board’s or GG’s fault, we massively fucked up after 91 success and failed to build squad up. We won cups but some of league form was shocking..Hillier, Hayes, McGoldrick- need I say more? I’ve wanted Wenger out for 3-4 years now BUT the football under Wenger has changed the perception of the club around the world so much for the better.
    ‘Boring, boring Arsenal’ was OUR chant when we were playing under Wenger, claiming the chant that opposition fans would maliciously chant ar us.
    Am I alone in thinking Lemar for Sanchez would be a progressive swap?

  89. kristoman

    We paint what we decided to paint our club with. And oh wenger attractive football was not reason arsenal was known globally. Boring boring football morinhno introduced at Chelsea make them known to the football world today. so what are you saying about boring football again?

  90. Champagne charlie

    “Don’t be surprised if we drag it out and pocket the money. Besides would you trust these fuckers to reinvest it? ”

    Who will be pocketing the money?

  91. Dissenter

    Emirates,
    “Wenger is not the only problem, because with the right owner, board of directors and CEO he would not have survived.”

    That’s some very complicated equivocation you’re doing there.
    Do you mean to say that “Wenger is not the ONLY problem…” ?

    Do you realize that there’s a part of greatness of a man that emphasizes life-work balance and knows when to walk away.
    Alex Ferguson is such a man- He knew when he was spent and left on his own terms.
    Wenger is a weasel of a man. He lying to himself and to everyone else.

  92. Jacko

    ‘not sure about whoever it was praising GG’s man-management. he could definitely have treated Rocky better than he did, and Mickey Thomas doesn’t have much nice to say about him.’

    Wallace,

    An old mate of mine played for both Graham and Rioch at Millwall. He thought GG was a great coach but a real bastard. And he thought Rioch was a lovely fella but an average coach. Perhaps this translates into their respective times with us.

  93. Gunner2301

    How Wenger can say he loves the club when he cannot analyse his own failings and concede he is no longer good enough I don’t know. He may love the club In the eyes of some but he loves himself a whole lot more that’s why he can accept a salary increase for failure and be the highest paid manager when we were starving for resources on the pitch.

  94. Redtruth

    Wenger for a time had the best players which produced the best football however it didn’t translate in Europe the same way as it did Domestically for obvious reasons…

  95. Bob N16

    RedRuth,
    Not sure why you are insulting Arsenal fans…

    “Arsenal are the thickest….when it comes to football”.

    When it comes to the Stock Market, environmental issues and the state of the nation we’re inspirationally intelligent.

    Wise words Ruth , guru of all things Arsenal!

    Can’t wait for your next wise, instructive, positive comment…………..

  96. David Smith

    Emirates, really hope you are right that Kroenke could, in circumstances decide to sell, that would immediately get rid of the two or three biggest problems at the club in 1 go.
    However, I fear this guy is stubborn, craves nothing other than not actually losing money, Arsenal could drop a long way, and his initial stake, and a healthy profit would still be an absolute certainty. Also,,there is the war chest Wenger has built up, possible to keep on the right side of Stan. That could pay for rebuilding without hitting Stans pockets. He may also feel there is more to be milked out of the game here, world TV rights, a Google or Amazon screening pay per view streams etc.
    Best for all concerned is that Stan sells, and moves onto some unfortunate stateside project.
    As Lady Nina once said, I am not sure why Stan is at this club, but what we can be sure, it is not for ambition and success on the pitch. What a shame Wenger, an ex winner, a man who could have left at a time revered by most, should allow himself to be dragged into Stans tawdry scheme, killing his once great legacy in the process. I believe Wenger knows this, and is why he keeps coming back for one more shot at redemption, even though he knows it is long over. The Muhammed Ali of football management, ok not as great, but an old man taking too many punches. Sad.

  97. Bob N16

    Like the Ali analogy David….self belief is part off the make up of a success story but self delusion often follows, when the ego doesn’t accept the passing of time and the reality of best days past….

  98. Pierre

    Ruth
    “Arsenal fans are the thickest and most ignorant when it comes to football hence Wenger’s longevity at the club…”

    And none are more thicker or ignorant than you eh Ruth

  99. Guernsey gun

    Great posts tonight, I used to feel sorry for him in not knowing when to walk away but not any more. He is taking the club into the abyss and a lack of introspection and frankness shows him for what he is a greedy, narcissistic twat who is ruining what the above post sAys someone who would have been revered forever, now he will be reviled.

  100. £10,000,000.

    All I know is following arsenal in the 80’s was my favourite time, are support home and away was superb, our support was passionate , loud and was grudgingly respected by other teams, now we are a laughing stock basically because of the way the club is being run, I’m sick of fans flip flopping over wenger, it’s obvious he has to go and if fans were more consistent with that view instead of back tracking after a small run of wins we might be further down the road to getting rid of him

  101. Alexanderhenry

    David Smith

    ‘What a shame Wenger, an ex winner, a man who could have left at a time revered by most, should allow himself to be dragged into Stans tawdry scheme, killing his once great legacy in the process. I believe Wenger knows this, and is why he keeps coming back for one more shot at redemption, even though he knows it is long over. The Muhammed Ali of football management, ok not as great, but an old man taking too many punches. Sad.’

    Brilliantly put. Best thing I’ve read on here.

    Take a bow sir

  102. David Smith

    Bob, happens with so many people in top jobs if there are not checks, balances and limited time frames in place. They can end up wealthy, but doesn’t usually end pretty, nor will this..It will be ugly, toxic atmospheres, fan pressure, player pressure, players not performing or renewing that forces their hand, and will take time to recover from .
    Unfortunately, Stan has removed all checks, balances and time frames when it comes to Wenger.
    The board have felt loyal to him, part of the banks lending conditions rates was Wenger staying for the initial years of the stadium build. It is said he turned down Real, Bayern PSG and England during this time, maybe true, his standing was high then. But the time for standing by him because of this loyalty has long gone. He is only there because of a majority shareholder, either mesmerised by Wenger, or too ignorant of the sport and lazy to back his CEO and bring about change.

  103. R.S.P.C.Arsenal

    I would love it if Sanchez called their bluff

    Fuckmem stay till after window closes then sign pre nup with city an join in June for nowt

    Dame with the ox same with ozil

    Money is what governs then so potentially losing 100m of player an gettingnfuck all

    That would be fucking magic ad Alan Sunderland mouthed

  104. Alexanderhenry

    sal

    When making the comparison DS admitted wenger is ‘not as great’, but the comparison is valid in so far as Ali should have hung up his gloves years earlier than he did . He didn’t and we all know what happened.

    Wenger is effectively punch drunk.

  105. Guernsey gun

    Looking ahead to the liverpool game I’m going for a 4 2 Liverpool. Good old end to end stuff but fucking depressing stuff for an arsenal fan. Then we have the international break I expect. 2 major outs by 30th August.

  106. Ughelligunner

    What if it is the other way round? What if kronke is the brain behind wenger staying? i can see kronke begging wenger to stay so as to minimize money spent. A Man cant have the kind of control wenger has without the owner not satisfied with it. P.S. Can people stop atributing unlimited success to fergy as if he didnt have money to spend please. He Was buying the best british players for huge amount in the early 2000 and he had british managers and referees in his pocket, unlikely penalty and offside goals. We all know wenger does what he does because he has all the time in the world. He chooses not to buy, keeps deadwood, plays players out of position, throws points out the window because he is the judge and executional. He survives the guillotin by knowing when to stop experimenting. Willing Arsenal to lose matches wont happen, because he always survives it. The best take as fans is to cheer the team and hope for us to win as much games posible, losing wont change anything as seen from last season.

  107. graham62

    Sorry folks.

    NEWCASTLE 4 ARSENAL 4
    MAN UTD 8 ARSENAL 2
    ARSENAL 4 TOTTENHAM 4
    LIVERPOOL 5 ARSENAL 1
    CHELSEA 6 ARSENAL 0
    MAN CITY6 ARSENAL 3
    BAYERN 5 ARSENAL 1 ……….X3
    AC MILAN 4 ARSENAL 0
    BIRMINGHAM 2 ARSENAL 1
    ARSENAL 1 MONACO 3

    So please, forget the legacy, lets deal with the facts.