Arsenal stink out Beijing with familiar performance

by .

via @arsenal

via @arsenal

You can’t read too much into preseason friendly results. However, you can’t brush off the purpose of them. To build fitness, to test new systems, to hone your style. It’s a preparation test bed. So when you watch Arsenal disappoint in the same way they did the whole season before, it’s hard not to worry that there’s a significance to what you’re seeing.

Cheslea playing their first preseason friendly looked stronger, fitter and far more interested than Arsenal. They pretty much dominated proceedings from start to finish. They dealt with us in the same clinical fashion that saw them dominate the league with such ease last season.

Arsenal looked weak. We looked tired. Worst of all, we looked distinctly uninterested in the game. The players were mailing it in. Now, you could cite the stomach bug of midweek being a problem. You could cite the issues we’re having getting our best players back into the squad. Or you could just look at the reality of the situation > we haven’t really moved the needle this summer.

We were very shaky at the back, letting Chelsea blitz us through the middle with ease. We were slow at transitioning in attack, hardly causing Chelsea a problem all game. Alarmingly, Lacazette looked distinctively average, struggling to free up any space in the first half at all. We had to resort to bringing on Giroud to shake things up. My big fear with our new Frenchman is he’s not as fast as Ligue 1 would have you believe, couple that with his lack of physical presence… and, well, you’ve got the case for a converting a £56m striker to a winger.

My big fear at the back of last season was the success of our ‘new’ formation was in fact, a bit of a red herring. We mostly played a collection of teams who had nothing to play for and we beat them. We had a superb cup final, but it’s always hard to read too much into a one off on such a grand stage. Do we really think stealing a formation is going to make us world beaters?

Today, our setup looked unorganised and lacking in purpose. The players really didn’t understand what they were doing in the same way Chelsea players did. That’s to be expected, because Conte is a different type of coach (a good one), but if we take a tanking in the Community Shield, it’ll set a poor tone for the start of the season.

Wenger hasn’t invested properly this summer. Chelsea is bulking up in areas they were already strong in. We’re sprinkling in a back up left back – who really is struggling – with an expensive striker who at best, will take a number of months to get up to speed.

There really has been very little change. It’s just same old Wenger, over and over again.

We’ll see though. It is preseason. There is still time to make additions to the squad. There’s still time to address system problems. We can still purchase players.

I just don’t see it happening.

Over to you…

 

 

695 Responses to “Arsenal stink out Beijing with familiar performance”

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  1. Redtruth

    Arsenal collected a paltry 12 points from a possible 36 points against last seasons top 7 teams.
    Arsenal failed to beat either Spurs, Liverpool and Man City during the whole campaign and rescued a last minute draw against Man Utd after being comprehensively outplayed. We were also handed 3 points when Man Utd gave up the ghost to concentrate on winning the Europa league…
    Flat track bulliy kings is what we are…

  2. ughelligunner

    so when bamford says supporting wenger deserves abuse on legrove common sense didnt tell you that physically these abuses might lead to physical assault because everybody doesnt have a thick skin. from what bamford has claimed if you are against wenger on a wenger in blog you would get abused too and it might lead to a brawl if you did it physically. like it or not, it happens to both side of the divide. when one side has the advantage of numbers, the abuse heats up against any positive poster like we see on and who says it wont get physical if we all see eyeball to eyeball?

  3. Cesc Appeal

    I thought Fabregas was top rate against us, pulled the strings for Chelsea and played some great balls. That is what I mean about Ozil though, he just cannot control the ball and the game as a playmaker in the way Fabregas can while still being a playmaker.

    Fabregas and Batshuayi gave Conte something to think about with Bakayoko and Morata having arrived.

  4. Samesong

    Wow this game is quite exciting Eng v India

    India were on top and look like tey are losing their bottle.

  5. R.S.P.C.Arsenal

    What I don’t understand is wenger got Perez when he fought Sanchez was off last year ….
    Now he is off he is looking to lodge Perez when he impressed all in the game time he got ??

  6. HillWood

    Which top club will be first to get into trouble with the ridiculous money they are forced to spend to be competitive?

  7. Steveyg87

    The whole psg in for sanchez deal is becoming really painful. They have so many players that could automatically take us up a level. As it stands, we have the weakest midfield in the top 7, kind of strange considering wenger used to pull midfielders out his arse and turn them in to gems. We should be all over a Rabiot/matuidi plus cash for sanchez swap deal. Unfortunately, I have fukol faith in Wenger pulling off anything resembling a smart deal

  8. Joe

    Hillwood

    Too much money in football for top clubs to get into trouble and too
    Many billionaires ready to buy the clubs up as play things if any even come close.

    Too much tv money. Commercial money. World wide sponsorships. World wide fan base.

    Football is not going to become unpopular all of a sudden. It only growing in popularity on a world wide basis

  9. Bamford10

    Of course I would expect verbal abuse if I made Wenger-out comments on a Wenger-in forum.

    That is the world.

    But no, this wouldn’t lead to physical violence or threats of physical violence, because that is a different thing entirely.

    But I remain confused about why we are taking about this. Threatening another person with physical violence because he has a different view from you is backwards and frankly fascist.

    And saying that someone else’s wife has “a big mouth” for saying what any ordinary person would say is dumb, backwards and frankly sexist.

    And Don, I’m sorry, but I disagree: an evolution-denier does merit verbal abuse, as does a Wenger-defender. Though I agree this isn’t the polite or gentlemanly thing to do.

    I don’t have a lot of patience for views that I regard as asinine. Others do. To each his own.

  10. Marko

    – it’s a pre-season friendly in China
    – he’s taken his wife along
    – he’s shouted something provocative and then faced some comeback

    It was a 3-0 embarrassing defeat.
    The wife has nothing to do with it.
    Saying Wenger out isn’t provocative ffs. How is that provocative? Unless you’re a mindless lemming that is. With your logic I suppose someone who chants one Arsene Wenger when we’re winning should his head kicked in. It’s provocative too…

  11. Bamford10

    Don

    I’m not going to pretend that I’m a fighter. I’m not. But I don’t think there’s anything admirable about men who are. Maybe Brits and Yanks have a different attitude towards violence, but I don’t associate with nor would I ever associate with someone who used violence or the threat of violence against another man. That’s just not acceptable here in the States, unless you run in a semi-criminal milieu.

  12. Daz

    “And Don, I’m sorry, but I disagree: an evolution-denier does merit verbal abuse”

    Do you dish this abuse out to any religious students you may have?

  13. Bamford10

    Daz

    What a stupid question. Of course not. That is a completely different context and my role there is to educate and inform and question — always in a respectful and caring manner. Completely different context. Dumb.

  14. Bamford10

    Marko

    Where are you from, btw? I’m just curious, because I do think different cultures have different attitudes towards violence. This also can be a social class thing: working class versus middle class or bourgeois attitudes. It’s also maybe a football culture thing.

  15. Bamford10

    Daz

    No. I don’t take “positions,” as it were, in my classroom and I don’t express my views. Certainly not on religion or politics.

    The school is secular and has a relatively liberal and global outlook. But we have students from every faith tradition and from nearly every worldview and perspective.

    I teach literature and composition. If a student happened to say something anti-evolution-y, I would likely ask the other students what they think — I run a discussion-based, not lecture-based classroom — or I would say something very vanilla like: “I believe there is overwhelming evidence for evolution, but this is perhaps a question you should take up with your biology teacher or biology textbook.”

    And that is the last I will say about my professional life, as that is not at all relevant here.

  16. Confidentgoner

    The rumour now is about Carlvalo, the Portuguese midfielder, slower than a centipede. I hope he doesn’t come near Arsenal. I am tired of seeing slow players populate our club. Slow= lazy, inability to track back. After the match yesterday, I noticed that all Chelsea players had pace to burn. Any wonder they want to prise OX from us. The premiership is the wrong playground for slow players. We have a pile of them: Ramsey, Xakha, Ozil, Elneny, Montreal, etc. The fast players that we have are not real ballers. Our scouting is terrible.

    Yesterday’s match also showed how well oiled and drilled the Chelsea team is. They keep two shapes: Attacking 352, and defending 541, with very accurate ball distribution.

    We could not have scored in that match if it lasted for 3 hrs. They are well drilled and we had nothing on them. I hate it when guys say we played mainly youths- am sorry, in the 2nd half, we brought in experience and we still had fewer shots on goal than them.

    The manager has no idea about what he is doing. I hope he buys 3 more players to help the the in spite of him, otherwise, we could move further down to 8th.

    Groundhog..

  17. Cesc Appeal

    Just with regards to these Carvalho rumours, if we are going down the CDM route again for a partner for Xhaka then surely Danilo would be the better option?

    Xhaka, Danilo as a midfield base has more balance to it.

  18. Carts

    Carvalho, 26 in a few months, still stuck at Sporting, could now be the answer?

    Fuck me, someone go find out and get the latest on Amaury Bischoff

  19. karim

    Cesc

    Matuidi is not as good as he was, say 2 seasons ago and one could argue whether he’s going downhill but he’s still quality, no doubt.

  20. karim

    I usually try not to read too much in a picture but…

    https://mobile.twitter.com/nabil_paristeam/status/888833840659222529/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fdisqus.com%2Fembed%2Fcomments%2F%3Fbase%3Ddefault%26f%3Dcanalsupporters%26t_i%3D283241%2520http%253A%252F%252Fcanal-supporters.com%252F%253Fp%253D283241%26t_u%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fcanal-supporters.com%252F2017%252F07%252Frepresentants-de-neymar-a-barcelone-signer-nouveau-contrat-bechler%252F%26t_e%3DMAJ%2520%25E2%2580%2593%2520Le%2520sort%2520de%2520Neymar%2520se%2520joue%2520%25C3%25A0%2520Barcelone%252C%2520Paris%2520et%2520New-York%2520(Bechler)%26t_d%3DMAJ%2520%25E2%2580%2593%2520Le%2520sort%2520de%2520Neymar%2520se%2520joue%2520%25C3%25A0%2520Barcelone%252C%2520Paris%2520et%2520New-York%2520(Bechler)%26t_t%3DMAJ%2520%25E2%2580%2593%2520Le%2520sort%2520de%2520Neymar%2520se%2520joue%2520%25C3%25A0%2520Barcelone%252C%2520Paris%2520et%2520New-York%2520(Bechler)%26s_o%3Ddefault%26l%3D%23version%3D206e3ad7f7ed07586cff80d4cf629131

  21. TallestTiz

    According to a French news outlet, le perisian spp?? PSG are me focused on the Nëymär deal and are considering pulling out of the Alexis deal. Partly due to the player’s demands and Arsenal’s unwillingness to do business.

    Could well turn out to be all BS tho and Alexis turns up in Paris two weeks from now

  22. ThePuma9

    Marko

    ‘ I suppose someone who chants one Arsene Wenger when we’re winning should his head kicked in. It’s provocative too…’

    Great logic. This hasn’t happened though has it? Not like you to just make up nonsense is it? People getting their heads kicked in for supporting the club? Fuck me you are dense.

    People like you and China are just leaches on the club. People that go to games generally support the club, that’s how it normally works.

  23. Leaving in a wooden box

    Fans that are prepared to attack another fan for verbally abusing Wenger( himself the abuserof arsenal FC and particularly the fans), are probably those same fans that will call Sanchez “,Judas” when he leaves arsenal.
    Strange loyalty. Wenger deserves nothing. He is managing arsenal for his own selfish gratification. A despot, obsessive dictator that cannot resign as his life would, in his own view, be empty.
    He is clearly only defined as anything valuable whilst he remains at arsenal. A very sad man.

  24. Marko

    Actually wouldn’t mind Carvalho at least he knows his job doesn’t deviate from it and as opposed to Xhaka can actually tackle

  25. karim

    Lol Cesc, one can read a lot into the link though !

    Tallest
    Exactly what I was thinking, considering they tried to snatch Verratti, that’d be quite funny if they ended up without Neymar.

  26. Sane Choice

    Well,well well.Wallace, the pro-Wenger ‘Arsenal’ fan on her,e throwing racist insults left,right and centre without being reprimanded. I had some weird feeling that he was one of those half decent Wenger fans. Its not sensible to expect sense from a Wenger fan.

  27. Wallace

    Sane Choice

    “Well,well well.Wallace, the pro-Wenger ‘Arsenal’ fan on her,e throwing racist insults left,right and centre without being reprimanded.”

    …?

  28. Hitman

    Preason, lack of quality new signings, failure to see dross – things aren’t going well.

    Just need a ropey start and will spend a fair bit of time in bottom half of table next season is my prediction.

  29. Don

    Bamford

    So you don’t subscribe to the idea of abusing your students
    Just anyone else that would put their faith in religion over science?

    Also I don’t feel that British people are more predisposed to violence than our American counterparts if that’s what you’re getting at

  30. Samir

    Why buy Carvalho when we can get Goretzka for less + he’s the better player? Or Danilo from Porto?

    Personally I think it is media rubbish and Wenger will not buy a CM. It’s the Wenger thing to do…Always be a few players short of competing.

  31. Daz

    Bamford

    Yeah i didnt think you would, maybe you should treat all people how you do your students, even if you are safe to abuse on an online blog without the repercussions

  32. ThePuma9

    Daz

    ‘maybe you should treat all people how you do your students’

    By the sounds of it the students would probably chin him anyway.

  33. Bamford10

    Don

    That’s not exactly what I was suggesting, but I can assure you that there is a different attitude towards violence within British and European football fandom than there is in the US. About this there can be no dispute. Yes, there is a lout here or there in the States who decides to fight with a fan of the opposing team, but nothing even approaching the kind of thing one sees in and around football stadiums.

    Daz

    Sorry, but I don’t have the patience for that, and one would have to be a saint to treat the whole world that way. I have no patience for ignorance, superstitiousness, backwardness, and I am not a very patient person in general. If you were a child, or if you wanted to pay me — as my students’ parents do — then I would be happy to treat you with kindness and respect.

    Otherwise I’ll speak to you exactly as your commentary deserves.

  34. Bamford10

    Daz

    And by “you” there I don’t mean “you” in particular. I mean the world in general. If someone wants me to treat them as I treat my students, they need to either be a child/adolescent or they need to pay me.

    Now, if I respect someone’s commentary or point of view, I treat that person with the utmost respect. I see no reason to do this for people who don’t deserve it, however. I don’t have the time or energy for that.

  35. Bamford10

    Don

    Aside from, say, the Oakland Raiders fanbase, there is literally almost no culture of violence or hooliganism in all of US sports. None.

    The same cannot be said of European football, though of course things are not what they were in the 70s or 80s.

    This is not a value judgment or a slight on anyone’s culture; it’s just a cultural difference.

  36. Bamford10

    Sanmi

    How proud you must be. You never answered, though: what, if any, additions do we need? Where do you see us finishing this season?

  37. Guernsey gun

    The fire is burning under the shriveled cunt. Sanchez is gone and the new Wiltord is….well Wiltord. Oh dear captain wank stain has canned summer but queue a draw at home to Leicester and Liverpool giving us the hairy side and clueless will save us with err a Christopher wreh type signing anyone? Altogether now……there’s only one arsene wenger……? Rim crew…..where are you as Deliah would demand? Best hide until Wiltord gets a hatrick at home to Huddersfield eh

  38. Joe

    Bam

    He won’t answer. Makes some lame dumb comment like he doesn’t have a crystal ball

    Big talker about how great wenger is and how good our squad is under him but won’t put his cock out and say ” we will finish 1st,2nd , 3rd whatever and within whatever points”.

    I say we will finish 6th. Maybe 7th. And probably about the same points back as this season. And hopefully “WENGER OUT” by jan

  39. graham62

    OK Ladies and Gentlemen a bit of fun. If you were given the opportunity to sit it on the next Arsenal AGM, what question would you like to put to our manager/board? One question only please.

    Mine would be something along the lines of –

    As individuals and a collective body, are you aware that Arsenal Football club has become the laughing stock of world football. Why have you allowed this to happen?

  40. Joe

    My one question would be

    Please give us one footballing reason as to why wenger is still manager of Arsenal FOOTBALL club?

  41. graham62

    Samni

    Would your question be(now let me guess)…….

    Hi, my names Samni. I would like to thankyou all for your tireless efforts professionalism over the past ten years in helping to elevate the club , whilst showing such dignity and respect to your fan base. What’s your secret?

  42. graham62

    Joe

    Nice one, very direct. Can see him squirming already. Would you be looking Wenger in the eye with that one?

  43. Leaving in a wooden box

    @ graham62….
    Question to Wenger: will you be wearing the same zipper cost this season?
    Or wearing something simpler to operate?

  44. Pierre

    Graham62
    “As individuals and a collective body, are you aware that Arsenal Football club has become the laughing stock of world football. Why have you allowed this to happen?”

    Ignorance is bliss…… The only people the world of football are laughing at are the Wenger obsessed tossers…..

  45. James

    Arsenal cannot buy any players now unless players are sold and cannot afford to give anyone a salary increase unless players are sold.

    Arsenal’s wage bill cannot rise by more than £11m this summer due to PL wage cap rules. That figure is made up of £7m (wage cap increase) + £4m (profit from commercial income last season).

    Lacazette and Kolasinac wages = £16.6m.

    Sanogo, Asano and Szczesny wage saving is £5.46m

    There’s your £11m wage increase right there.

  46. HillWood

    ArseneWenger and David Dean were a good double act.
    Rod Hull and Emu were a good double act.
    I don’t think Emu could have cut it alone either

  47. Joe

    Seem to remember certain bayren players laughing at Arsenal when drawn with us.

    Lots of people laughing at Arsenal after 10-2

    Just because your head is up wenger’s ass Pierre doesn’t mean the rest of the world don’t see what a joke we are right now

  48. Joe

    There are a lot of people laughing at Arsenal

    Lots of people laughed when they were told we sold rvp for footballing reasons.

    Lots of people laughed at 8-2

    At 6-0. 5-2. 6-3.

    And at fans like you Pierre.

  49. Herb's Army

    Wenger could have saved us all this misery if only he’d told us the club was having its balls chopped off when they moved to the Emirates, and that Arsenal were positioning themselves to become every rich club’s bitch.
    Wenger has killed Arsenal as a football force.

  50. graham62

    Pierre

    Not sure what you mean “Wenger obsessed tossers”.

    Are you pointing your finger at those people, like myself, who see AW as being the core reason for all our shortcomings, or are you directing your feedback to those who see him as the messiah?……….Um, now let me think………….that would be people like you!

  51. graham62

    Pierre

    What exactly scares you so much? Is it the fact that you have zero knowledge of anything other than the period 1996-2017, or is it that you see consistent and predictable failure as a satisfactory and comfortable existence. What make’s you such a happy and contented bunny? Please, don’t use the name ‘Wenger’ in your answer.

  52. Pierre

    And me , I think Wenger should have left after we beat villa 4-0 in the cup final …he’s now past his sell by date …..of course , winning 3 FA cups in 4 seasons is a great achievement whatever the wots (Wenger obsessed tossers) say but his failure to even compete in the league and Europe is a damning indictment on his ability or inability to build a strong enough squad to compete……

  53. Champagne charlie

    “Haven’t seen old Charlie for a couple days. No heel nipping just noticing you know”

    The very definition of heel nipping you pleb hahah. Jesus. Sorry mate, forgot to clear with the blog that I was travelling and wouldn’t comment for a couple of days. But unlike you’re suggesting, it’s really not because of a preseason friendly. Pretty embarrassing assertion.

    Not missed much then, lack of Arsenal activity meaning little productive discourse. Just the usual spatterings involving the same wooden spoon types. Now Wallace is being sucked in and considered less than pleasant, good grief…not possible.

    China, nice story mate but as with a lot of your input I’m taking it with a pinch of salt. You shouted Wenger out in China and a guy started on your wife? I suspect there’s more to it than that. As has been stated though you asked for a reaction by going to an event where people support the club and you acted in opposition of that support. Welcome to sports.

    Important distinction also: in your version of the story you didn’t fight, there were no blows, only a pretty standard (from morons) response of ‘let’s go outside then’. I’m of the belief more was said and you’re happily omitting that for effect on Le grove – but let’s drop the “violence” angle.

    Oh look.. Bamford still on his pedestal commenting about other people and judging their input as if his is measured and respectful. The hilarity

  54. Pierre

    G62
    “What exactly scares you so much? Is it the fact that you have zero knowledge of anything other than the period 1996-2017, ”

    That is where you are wrong because I have been to hundreds of games pre Wenger and I know what a poor standard of football I had to watch for a large percentage of those games …..I agree that the football under Wenger now is not up to the standard from 98 until the ces, rvp, nasri side but it is still of a far superior quality than the 30/40 years prior bar a few exceptions..71 double side ….the Brady era though they only won one FA cup and the 89/91 team ….the rest was pretty mediocre and the football was basically long ball even during the 71 and 89 /91 title successes..

  55. N5

    Is…..this……the…..new fashionable thing on Le Grove…….?

    You all know it means to draw a breath or long pause for effect don’t you………no? oh OK carry on!! 😀

  56. Joe

    No no no red.

    You have it all wrong. It’s ok if you finish 18 points back and lose 10-2.

    As long as you show values and can pass in boring tippy – tappy sideways wenger ball fashion.

    “Pretty football” trophy only showed up as a way for the pierre’s and wallace’s of the world to defend Wenger

    They would rather play boring football and call it pretty( because they don’t have a clue) and not even compete than win trophies with a Jose or a Diego or conte.

  57. Joe

    So Pierre what you’re saying is you are happier coming 18 points back and getting embarrassed in the CL but plying what you think is pretty football rather than you were winning the league with GG in 89 because it was “long ball” ?

  58. Joe

    Samir

    Don’t think it bodes well for
    Arsenal if PSG don’t get Neymar.

    Leaves a lot of
    Money on the table for Sanchez’s

  59. reality check

    I’ve seen many say Sanchez “doesn’t deserve” 400K

    Who decides who deserves what? Isn’t that based on opinion?

    I think Sanchez is WORTH 400K. DESERVES seems a little to preachy a word for me. Wrapped in vague morality.

    Does Jack Wilshere deserve what he gets from football as a whole? There are young footballers, kids, killing themselves for a few minutes a game. To be able to show their skills to their coach. Yet people like Jack, Ramsey, Theo just turn up (when not crocked) never improve, and continue to be handed improved contracts.

    Did theo walcott deserve his 100-140k pw contract? Hell no. But he got it didn’t he. In Wengers mind. He deserves it.

    So, for me, deserve has no place in football. To earn, to deserve, who’s in charge of this? Who regulates who deserves what in football? Its all moral bullshit.

    Sanchez is WORTH 400K. Due to the fact, in order to replace him like for like or better, the transfer fee for XYZ player plus wages will cost more than giving Sanchez 400K for 3 years.

  60. reality check

    So yeah, who is the regulator, the judge? Who in football ‘deserves’ the lofty position where they get to decide, who deserves what in football.

    Who has the audacity to judge a person, and decide for that person, how much money they may earn?

    Who’s that guy, i want to meet that guy, and I want that motherf**** to explain to me, how the hell Arsene Wenger ‘Deserved’ another two years?!

    Respectfully.

  61. Joe

    If arsene wenger deserves 10m a year(which he doesn’t) Then Sanchez should get 500k a week alone From wenger for saving his job

  62. gonsterous

    ah the “Arsenal play beautiful football” myth that has fans cooing for Wenger… we haven’t player beautiful football since cesc left. song long balls to RvP was exactly that “long balls”… now we have the sanchez does everything on his own.. so where exactly is the beautiful football that pieere is shouting about ??

  63. Don

    Gonsterous

    Did you not see the goal vs Norwich after RvP
    We were playing football like that off giroud pretty regularly

    Rozicky v Sunderland

  64. Samesong

    under Pep, Wenger or Klopp he’s a rival to Hazard as the most dangerous player in the PL. under Mourinho he warms the bench mostly…

    Under Wenger he becomes injury prone.

  65. Rambo Ramsey

    ‘under Pep, Wenger or Klopp he’s a rival to Hazard as the most dangerous player in the PL. under Mourinho he warms the bench mostly…’

    Good grief, so much jizzing based on something he’s done in a pre season friendly. First let the guy prove himself to be as good as Walcott in the league, let alone Hazard.

  66. Pierre

    Joe
    “So Pierre what you’re saying is you are happier coming 18 points back and getting embarrassed in the CL but plying what you think is pretty football rather than you were winning the league with GG in 89 because it was “long ball” ?

    I refer back to my post yesterday

    “PierreJuly 23, 2017 23:08:59
    And me , I think Wenger should have left after we beat villa 4-0 in the cup final …he’s now past his sell by date …..of course , winning 3 FA cups in 4 seasons is a great achievement whatever the wots (Wenger obsessed tossers) say but his failure to even compete in the league and Europe is a damning indictment on his ability or inability to build a strong enough squad to compete……”

    Could it be any clearer Joe… Where does it say I am happier finishing 18 pts back. He has failed in Europe and prem…….. WOT

  67. Wallace

    Rambo

    “First let the guy prove himself to be as good as Walcott in the league, let alone Hazard.”

    at 19yrs old he was Utd’s best attacker under Van Gaal. no coincidence his career’s stalled since Mourinho took over.

  68. TR7

    Goodness gracious RR, did you just compare Martial to Theo? He’s the most talented player at Man U and surely under a good manager will go on to achieve great things. Theo ain’t no footballer.

  69. Pierre

    Gonsterous
    I think you need a bit of educating on the “long ball” game.
    For a start song played in midfield which makes it nigh on impossible for him to play
    the “long ball”..
    In simpler terms, a long ball team are WBA … They are afraid to play it from the back. The keeper and back 4 bypass the midfield and try and hit a striker or in west broms case, the keeper will kick the ball to the touch line, especially in away games…

  70. Champagne charlie

    TR7

    Mourinho is world class according to many on here, Martial should be something else under him by that token then?

  71. Samesong

    Theo ain’t no footballer. Agree

    But he scores more goals than Martial on average and from the bench also.
    Martial needs to up his goals..
    He got quick feet and great dribbling ability.

  72. Champagne charlie

    Giroud “determined to fight”, so staying it is then. Marseille next summer, cert.

    Glad he’s staying on and has he right attitude to be honest, quality player and will offer something different when required.

    Still a lot of players to shift this window, fancy Lucas, Gibbs, Chambers to all go his week.

  73. TR7

    CC

    I have never rated Mourinho. He is an anti-football cheque book manager. Martial should leave Man U for his own sake.

  74. TR7

    Samesong

    Yes the only criticism that can be leveled against Martial is he hasn’t scored as many goals as he should have at United but he is still very very young.

  75. TR7

    James Robson‏Verified account @JamesRobsonMEN 13h13 hours ago

    Manchester City increasingly encouraged Sanchez will force a move.

    James Robson‏Verified account @JamesRobsonMEN

    He is pricing himself out of transfers abroad, which will put pressure on Arsenal the longer the summer goes on

  76. Champagne charlie

    TR7

    Wholeheartedly agree. Out of curiosity how do you see our activity playing out between now and Windows end?

    Any player/s you particularly feel we’ll get/try for? Any we won’t go for who you think would do well here?

  77. graham62

    The jist of all this is that we have someone like Pierre who is prepared to accept that pretty football and winning nothing of consequence (I include the modern day version of the FA Cup in this – ie scratch/weakened teams/lack of committment/passion/atmosphere etc) is far better than seeing a team dedicated to winning/tactically secure/ able to mix things up/still play good football with a philosophy and mindset geared to accepting second best(or forth best in the case of AW) as failure.
    Please don’t compare football of twenty/thirty years back to the present game. Teams in the 3rd/4th tiers of the game today play more attractive football than PL teams of twenty years back.

    The fact that Pierre felt Mr Wenger should have left only after they beat Villa 4-0 shows that he had come to accept his ways for far too long, when it was quite clear that he was killing the club as a footballing entity.

  78. TR7

    CC

    I don’t see us go for any new defender now. We are well stocked at least quantity wise although I have my reservations over Gabriel. I just hope we can permanently offload Gibbs,Jenkinson and Debuchy who are surplus to our requirements. I won’t mind if Chambers stays, I think he can improve and hopefully become a good defender in future.

    In attack, I hope we keep Giroud because Lacazzete will take some time getting used to the league.Lacazzete/Giroud/Welbeck is a decent strike force. If we can keep Sanchez then signing Mahrez would be more than enough. Mahrez on the right side and Alexis on the left would be terrific. We can create space for Mahrez by either loaning Iwobi out or selling Theo.

    The only area of concern for me is our central midfield. I think Wenger will again ignore this area which for me is our achilles heel. Hopefully Jack leaves and we sign at least one more CM. ideally I would like two because Santi is out injured and Elneny and Coq are squad players not starting 11 players. But signing 1 CM is absolutely essential. Goretzka would be amazing and if Wenger makes a huge bid I think we ca get him.

    So in summary, keep Sanchez and Giroud and sign Mahrez and Goretzka- if all this happens ,we will have one of the most wonderful transfer window in a long long time.

  79. Emiratesstroller

    For me it makes complete commercial sense that Arsenal hold on to Sanchez
    next season even if the player leaves on a Bosman thereafter.

    1. Sanchez cost the club a transfer fee of £35 Million. So the cost over his contract is £8.75 million pa. Buying an equivalent player today would cost more than double if such a player is available.

    2. Sanchez salary is reputed to be £130 K pw. Arsenal are not compelled to pay
    him a dime more over the next 12 months. They are saving a huge chunk of
    money if he refuses to sign a new contract.

    3. Next season Sanchez will be 30. He will find it increasingly difficult to find
    a club willing to pay him £400-500 K pw particularly when you factor in his physical style of play and the huge number of games he plays. I suspect that Sanchez will follow a similar pattern to Rooney i.e. a rapid decline.

    4. When you buy new players it takes time for them to settle in as suggested
    by Pires. There is no guarantee that a new player e.g. Lamar however talented
    would adjust quickly to playing in EPL.

    5. Arsenal’s ambition this season is to do well in EPL i.e. to win league title or
    at very least qualify for CL. Failure to do so will cost us more than the financial
    gain we might make out of Sanchez sale.

  80. GoonerDave

    Bamford-
    There are plenty of scientists who do not believe in evolution theory and some are secular too.
    There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever for macro evolution. No animal in recorded history has ever, ever mutated with new genetic information. Ever. Only re-arrangement of existing information.
    Cosmic evolution is also a cop out – the big bang theory only describes what happened to matter, space and time. It does not show where it came from at all. Nor where the laws of science came from. Dark matter accounts for most of the universe, but we have no idea what it is.
    If everything in the Universe somehow came about without intelligence, why do we have quantum mechanics – the ultimate password! All the infinite splendour of fractal geometry, the almost binary code of our DNA, there are lots of reasons why people believe in intelligent design.
    But everyone believes in evolution, right? And those that don’t are just stupid. Even if phd scientists. Science has become the new religion and if anyone blasphemes, ridicule is the order of the day.
    Macro evolution has never been proved and thus requires faith. Thus it is a religion also. Open your mind and instead of expecting abuse, hope to learn. Even if it’s only another man’s viewpoint which you don’t share.

  81. Emiratesstroller

    TR7

    Agree 100% with your analysis.

    Arsenal’s priority this summer should be to keep both Ozil and Sanchez and
    bring in three or four new players where needed.

    Both Lacazette and Kolasinac are upgrades on what we had in their respective
    positions.

    There are three other positions which could do with upgrade, although I agree
    with you we are unlikely to buy a new CB

    Bringing in Mahrez or Lemar on wing and a new CMF would be a bonus.

    Personally I think that further acquisitions this summer are dependent to some degree on future sales. We have sold Szczesny and I do think that we
    need to raise further monies on sale of Chambers, Wilshire, Lucas, Gibbs
    and possibly Ox if we receive a ridiculous offer for him.

  82. Leaving in a wooden box

    @graham,
    You continue to take the words out of my mouth.
    I just sit back and let you clearly and logically dismantle any pro-wenger bollox.
    Cheers

  83. qna

    Emirates. What we paid for him is irrelevant now. But you have mentioned the key points.

    Keeping him costs about 6m in salary, but that is a bargain compared to the going rate of a player of his quality. Although it is a cost, I consider this a net saving of probably 6m as he is worth double his current salary in my opinion.

    Keeping him could result in CL qualification, which is worth about 40m in EPL and CL prize money and he really could be the difference.

    So its a 45m gamble. You then have to weigh that up against the offer that comes in for him. If its 70m then the club will take it. If its less than 45m they may be willing to gamble. But I reckon about 40m gets it done, regardless of whether its to another PL team or not.

  84. raptora

    Wenger on Sanchez again:
    Sanchez has not asked to leave
    PSG are going after Neymar because they can’t get Sanchez
    Arsenal ‘have no need to make money’ from selling Sanchez
    Sanchez ‘will be part of the team next year’

    No way after Wenger has been saying the same thing virtually all summer every single interview we end up selling him. If Sanchez ends up in another team on 1-st of september Ashburton will be the most toxic place on earth.

    In my mind the chilean will be our player so all we need to do is to possibly go harder for Lemar and get that 1. pacey mobile Kante type of player; OR 2. powerful, strong, goalscoring box-to-box midfielder Goretzka type of player. This Naby Keita looks a good player and Liverpool has been on his tail the whole summer. What a price tag though.

    With a summer of Kolasinac, Lacazette, keeping Sanchez (almost like a transfer) and getting one of winger or CM (my pref) would be around 8/10 summer which is more than good compared to some of our previous TWs. Also need to sell or release all the useless players like Jenko, Debuchy, Wilshere, possibly Gibbs and I would cash on 20m Chambers and invest in a CB next summer.

  85. Wallace

    TR7

    “So in summary, keep Sanchez and Giroud and sign Mahrez and Goretzka- if all this happens ,we will have one of the most wonderful transfer window in a long long time.”

    yes, agreed. worried about the lack of noise around a CM signing though.

  86. Wallace

    although I think Jack’s gone, Cazorla’s out indefinitely, and if we’re accepting bids for Elneny…surely that suggests we have someone in mind.

  87. Emiratesstroller

    qna

    Sorry but I do not agree with your point about Arsenal accepting £45 million.

    I made the point of original transfer fee because the actual cost to Arsenal over four years of contract is £8.75 million pa.

    If Arsenal were to buy today a replacement similar calibre player aged 23-25 it
    will cost Arsenal at least £70 million assuming that you can find such a player.

    They don’t grow on trees and there are currently a lot of clubs in market able
    to spend that sort of money.

    You need also to factor in “risk assessment” of keeping player. In case of Sanchez I suspect that his performance level is unlikely to be affected by staying at club. That contrasts with Fabregas, Van Persie and Nasri where there was clear evidence that they were likely to be a problem if they stayed.

  88. Dissenter

    Emirates
    With all due respect…and I sincerely mean that.
    Your analysis only holds up because you’re assuming that Sanchez will hold his nose and put in a selfless shift this season.
    You’re assuming he will chase lost balls, lunge into tackles needlessly and press relentlessly in the last year of his contract knowing fully well that he has a pre-contract agree (in principle) with another club from 2018-2019.
    Why does everyone underrate Sanchez so much.
    Only he has to do is tell Wenger off in a private conversation….you know do a Gallas-approach (tell them he will sabotage the team) or post a public utterance like Van Persie.
    Sanchez has MORE options than Arsenal. All he has to do is suggest he won’t be giving his 100% and the equation changes; we will be faced with keeping an unproductive and disruptive player in his final contract year when we could have £50-70 to spend on another player.
    Sanchez can EASILY force his way away from Arsenal. Stop underating him like he’s some mindless drone or good choir boy.

  89. Dissenter

    Emirates
    “You need also to factor in “risk assessment” of keeping player. In case of Sanchez I suspect that his performance level is unlikely to be affected by staying at club”

    Why does everyone including you under-estimate Sanchez so much?
    He has advises to like everyone else?

    “His performance level is unlikely to be affected by staying”—–really?
    Assuming he has a pre-contract with PSG announced in January 1st 2018, do you think he will risk his upcoming last major contract by needlessly risking himself with a team struggling in 3rd-5th league place and is vying for the Europa league.
    Would you risk yourself if it were you?
    Why does everyone here keep thinking Sanchez is a choir boy?. I keep reading the morality argument that assumes he will just get along with it and it’s grating.
    He can stink out the last year; his class is undoubtedly unquestionable. Big clubs will still take that chance on him in 2018 because it’s a FREE transfer. Besides they all know the context.

  90. Emiratesstroller

    Dissenter

    My point about Sanchez style of play has nothing to do with his final year at club, but how he plays during his career.

    Second I think that the architect of what is going on at the moment is the player’s agent. He is looking for a fat commission out of sale.

    Sanchez is NOT going to force himself out of Arsenal as you suggest. He has
    more or less confirmed that in an interview in Chile where he reminded Arsenal that he is in final year of contract, but the decision whether he moves this
    summer rests with the club. That contrasts with other players who make it
    clear that they will go on strike if they are not allowed to move.

    Remember also if a player “forces” move and puts transfer request in writing
    it would impact on the overall deal.

  91. Ishola70

    karim:
    “PSG are going after Neymar because they can’t get Sanchez”

    How many times is Neymar going to piss PSG around?

    Mind you it’s their own fault for keep flirting with him and not learning from past mistakes.

    Was all this from PSG anyway this must need of a superstar player? Because they failed season just gone? Perhaps a Jardim and Emery swap would serve them better rather than chasing these superstar players.

    It is looking now that PSG will get neither Neymar or Sanchez.

    Not related to any of your posts but just generally people keep talking about Goretzka on here. Understandable because he looks obtainable to sign from Schalke. There is just one problem though and a big one. Bayern Munich have tabs on Goretzka. Wouldn’t be in the least surprised if they haven’t already tapped him and he leaves to join them for free next season.

  92. Ishola70

    Mahrez is another lightweight player.

    Don’t know why so many want to add him to a team that already has Ozil and some silly Libero midfielder who can’t tackle.

    Arsenal will end up being one of the softest teams in the league if Ozil, Xhaka and Mahrez all line up in the same side.

  93. Emiratesstroller

    Ishola 70

    Agree with your comments about Goretska.

    Bayern Munich are the smartest club in the market place when conducting business.

    They get it done well in advance of everyone else and have sofar not spent more than £30 million on bringing in any player. That was for Neuer.

    Also looking back at the last ten years of transfer business they have yet to
    spend £100 million in any single financial year.

    When you factor in that they brought in Lewandowski on Bosman and now Rodriguez on 2 year loan at a cost of just £8 million it tells you everything you
    need to know about that club.

  94. Up 4 grabs now

    Maybe goretzka to bayern is,nailed on but why not go to schalke now and try for him. Maybe they can’t afford to lose him for nothing?

  95. Carts

    Wallace

    “although I think Jack’s gone, Cazorla’s out indefinitely, and if we’re accepting bids for Elneny…surely that suggests we have someone in mind.”

    Let’s say what you posted comes to fruition – we lose Wilshere to West Ham or who ever; Cazorla is broken for the whole season; Elneny finally leave, this will leave us with: Coquelin, Xhaka, Ramsey and Niles.

    I think Wenger’s hand will on be forced if Elneny and Jack leave. If Elneny stays I’m almost confident he won’t recruit any CMs

  96. Up 4 grabs now

    Stupid question but when is Jack meant to be fit again?
    Wouldn’t surprise me if Wenger keeps him as santis replacement.
    New contract offered after playing 20minutes, then breaks down again!

  97. TitsMcGee

    Alarmingly, Lacazette looked distinctively average, struggling to free up any space in the first half at all. ”

    Early days but I won’t be surprised if he struggles mightily to start.

  98. TitsMcGee

    Don’t know what else people need to see to realize that it’s irrelevant who Wenger signs. He’s done as a top manager. We could sign Neymar and go Back to the Future with Viera and we’d still be just fighting for 4th.

    There’s a reason people retire after a certain age. All of the “changes” are nothing more than a diversion.

  99. TitsMcGee

    Alexis, Lacazette, Ozil, Mahrez & Giroud would be a shedload of attacking talent.”

    Surgical instruments in the hands of a mechanic.

  100. karim

    Ishola

    It was just a quote that made me laugh from Arsene !

    As for Neymar, I still think he could be on his way to Paris, contrary to what Pique has twitted.
    He got in touch with them, and there’s been no denial from him or his father/agent.
    The story has legs imo.