Drab striker chase raises questions about our creativity in transfer market

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Guys and gals, sometimes you have to take a step back and say, wow, haven’t we come a long way?

It feels like 4 years ago, we were sitting here complaining that Arsenal were tight because they wouldn’t spend an extra £10m on Higuain.

Now we’re sitting here getting upset we’re about to drop £60m on Lacazette!

Let’s be real here, we’ve just upgraded on last season’s attempt at signing Jaimie Vardy. Sure, Lacazette will score goals. He’s deadly in front of goal, has great link up play and he’s fast. I’m just not sure he’s going to next level us. I think he’ll be a very solid signing, but he won’t do as much for us as a player like Auba, who has just turned 28 years old and is apparently worth £63m.

I don’t really understand the argument that we don’t play to Auba’s style. We play lightning counter-attacking football when we want to, which suits his pace. We play a very intricate game, which the man from Gabon can play. Also, of massive importance in our league, is the height. Auba comes in 3 inches taller than Lacazette and that’s important if you’re moving on Olivier Giroud.

My bigger concern is the lack of creativity we’ve shown in dealing with the lack of strikers and talent in general. Henry Onyekuru coming in would be an interesting signing if we put him right back out on loan. We should be hoovering up young talent from around Europe that’s ready to go right back out to a mid-level Premier League clubs. We should be taking more chances on slightly older U23 youth that comes with a more modern premium.

Tielemans might be a bad example, but he’s been turning heads all year, he’s probably going to Monaco. So why aren’t we in there hoovering him up and shipping him out on loan at a good club, then we can bring him back when it makes sense? Kind of the way Chelsea have been operating. Modernising what project youth was… bring in £15-20m elite kids, loan them out, grow their talent, then have a production line of the best players coming into the first team squad when they’re good enough.

I mean, you’d have to have a good enough scouting network to do that. There seems to be very little creativity there. We’re right there, every year, fighting for all the obvious players. While Monaco, Sevilla, Dortmund and a host of other clubs pick up the bright young things. I mean, at a very basic level, it’s sad to see Paredes moving to Zenit from Roma.

Right, that’s all I have time for. It’s been a good week for blogging. Check out some of the pieces that are important reads.

Wenger backroom signings are a massive con and an egregious abuse of power

Fan Q&A: Chance to expose CEO rationale for support of Wenger’s anti-progress regime

Changes that could help Arsenal beat stagnation

Mind-blowing numbers show how player hoarding is crippling AFC transfer ambition

438 Responses to “Drab striker chase raises questions about our creativity in transfer market”

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  1. Cesc Appeal

    West Ham allegedly willing to pay £25 Million for Walcott. Bite their f*****g hands off.

    Even West Ham fans are holding their heads in their hands at that one it seems.

    That would be a great turn up for us.

  2. Cesc Appeal

    Tallest

    It certainly would.

    If we are losing Sanchez though, my personal preference would be to completely tear up the front line currently and start again. Sell Ozil.

    I only have really noticed him over the past few months, I know some on here have been talking about him for a bit, but I really like Lazio’s Keita Balde Diao. He plays LW for them, but has managed sixteen goals and three assists in twenty one games in Serie A.

    He is 6ft, strong, very pacey and a good dribbler with good end product. There is a part of me that even thinks (with it being very likely Ozil stays) we should maybe even look at him over Lemar to replace Sanchez’s style.

    But if we were going blank slate and both Sanchez and Ozil were sold, Lacazette, Keita and Lemar as the attacking three would be very interesting.

  3. China

    Wallace who do you expect to be our second choice if giroud stays and we sign lacazette?

    I agree he’d be mad to stay if he’s third choice, but unless we buy two elite strikers we’d be mad to have him lower than second choice

    Like let’s be blunt here. Apart from about 3-5 games a season every year for his whole career, what has welbeck done to justify being taken seriously at a big club?

    He doesn’t score. He doesn’t assist. He’s not great in the air. He’s not great with hold up. He’s not a visionary passer. He can’t be relied on to even score stonewall opportunities, let alone nick in on half chances. He can’t beat people for fun. He can run and he’s a nice guy.

    With that in mind if wenger relegated giroud to 3rd choice and had welbeck second choice then giroud would be absolutely right to demand a move. It would be a farcical scenario

  4. TallestTiz

    Cesc

    Regarding Iwobi.
    Sending him out would mean getting another young player to rotate with Özil, especially in the cups and the early stages of the EL which again will lead us into stockpiling players on the pay roll unnecessarily. – well, unless we get a Winger/CAM type of player like Lemar imo

  5. China

    Cesc he sounds interesting but doesn’t it concern you that a winger is a team that isn’t terrible only picks up a few assists in a season?

    That scoring record is really something to take notice of though, for sure.

  6. TallestTiz

    Cesc Regarding Iwobi. Sending him out would mean getting another young player to rotate with Özil, especially in the cups and the early stages of the EL which again will lead us into stockpiling players on the pay roll unnecessarily. – well, unless we get a Winger/CAM type of player like Lemar imo

  7. China

    I will eat my hat if Arsenal take that 25m for Wally but they reeeaaally should

    That’s useful money towards a serious player

    At the end of the day you have to take a long hard look at players who can play for a losing team for this long without moving on and ask if they’re part of the problem

    Obviously in his case it’s a yes. His goals are useful but we need to move these softly spoken nice guys who are happy with the 4th place trophy and walnut is the absolute king of those

  8. Cesc Appeal

    Tallest

    Yeah potentially, but I think we have options in the squad to play in there or changing the formation up.

    A player like Lemar must come in, if Sanchez leaves which seems likely then we need more. Wenger claiming Lacazette will make it all better will be stupid.

    China

    Yeah the assists are on the low side, but from what I have seen and read on him seems his future may be at ST. I just like the idea of Keita on one side of the attack and Lemar on the other, has a nice balance between pacey, direct goal threat and then a more creative type.

    But as I say, more than likely Ozil stays. I’m just totally disinterested in him. I cannot see us getting anywhere with him in the side. Well, with Wenger as manager as well but that makes talking about anything Arsenal totally futile.

    We have even less of a chance I will say then.

  9. Cesc Appeal

    £25 Million for Walcott would almost feel as good as signing a decent player.

    I would genuinely feel a little bad for West Ham. For about point two of a second.

  10. Marko

    cool with Lacazette rather than Aubameyang, but would take Martial over both of them. don’t see the c*nt selling to Wenger though.

    What is actually wrong with some people. You’d take honestly one of the most overhyped players in Europe over two of the most proven strikers about? Why? Is it his ability to run in a straight line? Is it his potential that’s somewhat stagnated the last 2 seasons? It certainly can’t be his fecking goal scoring return

  11. Dissenter

    To think that a 28 year old English international we pay £130k weekly is only worth £25 million in transfer is shocking.
    We seemed to have given Wenger even more power to escalate this nonsensewith the changes post “catalyst for change”

  12. Rambo Ramsey

    Atleast there are suitors for Wally and Oxo. Where are the parties interested in donkey Welbeck?

  13. Cesc Appeal

    Dissenter

    I thought it may be even worse than that. In the region of £10-15 Million because of his stupid wages.

    £25 Million for Walcott probably gives us over half the funds we would need for Lemar as well.

  14. Rambo Ramsey

    Another season or two under the Special C*nt and that’d probably be the end of Martial’s promising career.

  15. Dissenter

    Who’s responsible for letting half the top-16 players get to the last year of their contracts without sell-offs or extensions?
    Why are we rewarding mediocrity in the club’s management.
    I’m not even sure Kroenke is all about money to be honest.
    He’s managing the club in an anti-money way that has fostered a cult-of-personality around Wenger. He’s not maximizing the club’s commercial potential and is running down the assets. He’s allowing us to pay 50-100% more wages than is necessary.

    What does Kroenke enter stand for? It sure isn’t money.

  16. Cesc Appeal

    Dissenter

    Yeah, it has been said for a long time that the club is actually not being run in a financially sensible way at all. We overpay dross, have a socialist wage structure, our commercials are average, our transfer approach with both buying and selling is often mediocre and our contract situations are often badly handled.

    It really is because the club is built around one man and that is being permitted by the owner. We are a 20th Century club in a 21st Century world. Only now are the attempting to add flimsy plaster to the decaying structures at the Emirates.

  17. Dissenter

    Martial is better off staying at United until,he runs down his contract and they are forced to sell him to recoup some money.
    He’s better off staying away from Wenger. That’s like jumping from frying pan to frying pan. Wenger will also killl his potential.

    We need to get rid of 5-6 players to bring in 5-6 players. Just adding to Walcott, Welbeck, Giroud, Elneny and Coquelin isn’t enough. They have to leave so better players can take their salary space and better th squad.

  18. Rambo Ramsey

    Can’t believe Arsenal are contemplating selling Giroud and keeping Welbeck as second choice. If Lacazette flops or fails to hit the ground running at the off, who the F is gonna score the goals? The English donkey can’t even stay fit let alone score goals.

  19. Rambo Ramsey

    ‘Arsenal open contract talks with Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain’

    Dumb, dumb, dumb. If Arsenal are gonna keep Bellerin, then there’s no sense in bumping this guy to a 100k contract and keeping him on the bench.

  20. Dissenter

    Cesc,
    I’m with you on the shambolic way we are being run.
    I really feel for London fee paying fans because this is not what was promised when we left Highbury.
    We aren’t actually static anymore, we are regressing in an era where smaller clubs are using best practices to move forward.
    Watch out for Everton this season as they spend the money from selling Lukaku and Ross Barkley. They have a very deeply talented bunch of young players and aren’t afraid to sell players if need be.

    Why are we so afraid to start anew when players haven’t delivered

  21. qna

    Emirates. Agree Martial is not worth £60m based on his performances at United. I simply rate him as a player from before and also for moments he has shown at United. He is one of the best options that “might” be available to us.

    As for Lacazette he is simply not a top level talent. He is a 5th to 8th level team player at EPL level. He will be about the level that Giroud has been at his best. In my opinion that is nothing more than a squad level player. We always buy players that are of this level. We have dodged this rule only with Cazorla, Ozil and Sanchez in god knows how many years. . Probably since Nasri who was a serious talent when he came to us whether people like him now or not. All of these were rare times we actually spent money comparable to what top teams were spending.

    I am always up front with my assessment of players that we buy, rather than judging in hindsight. Although my pre-opinions are nearly always – this player is not nearly good enough or outright garbage. They always are. Whether its Podolski or Giroud, Gervinho or Park or or Schneiderlin or Welbeck or Perez. Add Lacazette to that list and bookmark it with my reputation. Just like I bookmarked with my reputation that we would 100% not finish top 4 last season. I know that I am a very poor judge of football, just like we all are on LG and 99% of football fans. But I am also no fool and some things are obvious to even the most simple fan.

    I can guarantee that we will continue to drop next season regardless of who we end up buying because our squad is too depleted to even repair it, even with Uniteds budget. I also guarantee that Lacazette will be no better than Giroud. A 67th minute sub.

    As for your comment that “The going rate for squad players in EPL top 5 club is now £30 million” then what does that say about the state of our squad. Ramsey, Wilshere, Welbeck, Elneny, Cazorla, Gibbs, Monreal, Cech, even Walcott. Would any of these players fetch anything close to that? This is the ultimate point. Our recruiting performs so poorly that our squad’s value has actually depreciated while the wider market has increased 5 to 10 fold in just a few years.

  22. Dissenter

    Rambo,
    “Can’t believe Arsenal are contemplating selling Giroud and keeping Welbeck as second choice”
    I’ve been banging that drum all week man.
    I think it’s more of chasing Giroud out. He can be on the bench for a brilliant world class Sanchez but it’s inconceivable that he will warm the bench for a French national team rival in the season preceding the World Cup. Wenger will hoard Giroud is he can but the lad is determined to make the World Cup no matter what. I can’t fault a player who wants to go somewhere where he can actually play football.

    Welbeck is one of the worst striker signings we have ever made, injuries apart. He’s a willing runner but is useless for basically every other thing.
    You keep reading that he helps the team play better yet he barely gets assists.

    He’s too poor to start games and can’t even contribute meaningfully from the bench. What is he good for?

  23. Dissenter

    Marko,
    As for Lacazette he is simply not a top level talent. He is a 5th to 8th level team player at EPL level.
    Your opinion is meaningless to be honest.
    Per Aulas, the Lyon president who would know having sold Benzema and Drogba, Lacazette is a top striker. You don’t get those numbers consistently if you’re not good enough.
    Atletico Madrid were reportedly ready to pay €65 million for him and are still waiting to do just that in January. The Atletico scouts have an eye for excellent strikers since they have had Falcao, Aguero, Costa, Diego Forlan, Yannick Carrasco and Greizmann.
    I trust the judgment of Atletico Madrid scouts over yours and the other Lacazette critics every single day.
    They were (and are still) willing to pay for him a larger fee than they paid for Greizmann even though he is older.

  24. Bamford10

    QNA

    your “reputation” here?

    No offense, mate, but anyone can call for us to sign four £50m proven top class players, as you did last summer and the summer prior.

    That doesn’t require any special knowledge of players or the game.

    But it’s also not plausible.

    I agree that Lacazette does not have everything, but to write him off completely because he isn’t Lewandowski is a bit silly.

    For you, the only way we can get to where we need to get is to spend £200+m this window, but this is neither plausible nor true.

  25. Jeff

    Wenger won’t sell unless he absolutely has to or the player just wants to leave. Don’t forget he’s a hoarder and doesn’t like change. The players are there first and foremost for his own personal moral and familial support – occasionally they have training sessions and football games as well just for variety.

  26. Marko

    Marko,
    As for Lacazette he is simply not a top level talent. He is a 5th to 8th level team player at EPL level.
    Your opinion is meaningless to be honest.

    What are you on about I’m a fan of Lacazette I was arguing against Wallace who said he’d prefer Martial over Lacazette and Aubameyang. He’d prefer a bit part player over two strikers who scored 30-40+ plus each last year.

  27. Bamford10

    Our success next season will be based on who is in the starting XI, and specifically who the starting forwards and midfielders are, not who the back-up CF is.

    Welbeck has his limitations, yes, but unlike Giroud he can also play wide and he has pace and dribbling. There is a reason he started in the FAC final; he helped stretch Chelsea, gave us diagonal runs, gave us runs in behind, helped create space and movement. With Giroud our attack is sclerotic.

    Further, Giroud can fetch us £25m in the market, where Welbeck cannot.

    Everyone agrees; Welbeck isn’t great and Giroud is a more reliable scorer. However, can we use that 25m to sign a Lemar or other players who will improve us?

    Yes, and that’s what we should do. Giroud is 30. Time to move on.

  28. Wallace

    China

    “…let’s be blunt here. Apart from about 3-5 games a season every year for his whole career, what has welbeck done to justify being taken seriously at a big club?

    well, firstly he’s only played about 10 games for each of the last two seasons. and both seasons he ended up first choice. must be doing a few things okay. I think he’s an excellent 2nd choice #9

  29. Bamford10

    Wallace

    Martial is more skillful, more talented and a better dribbler than either Lacazette or Aubameyang, but he doesn’t have as much pace or athleticism as they do.

    If I could only have one of them as my CF next season — and let’s say they were all a comparable price — I would probably go with Martial, but the margins would be narrower for me than you suggest.

    A front three of Alexis + Martial + Lemar? Or sub one of the other two in for Martial? Yes, I guess I too would take Martial over either of the other two — probably — but the margin again wouldn’t be massive.

    Cesc – What do you think?

  30. Samir

    Martial has more pace than Lacazette? Are you kidding? Lacazette is not the fastest. Sure he’s faster than Giroud but I wouldn’t call him pacey.

  31. Bamford10

    Which of the following front threes would you prefer and why?

    Alexis + Martial + Lemar

    or

    Alexis + Aubameyang + Lemar

    or

    Alexis + Lacazette + Lemar

  32. Rambo Ramsey

    You’re comical, Wallace. I doubt there’s anyone else on here who can spin a shambolic fitness record into a positive sentence.

  33. Bamford10

    Samir

    Yes, he does. Much more actually. Lacazette can burn. Martial is reasonably quick. That is all.

  34. Bamford10

    Samir

    You wouldn’t call Lacazette pacy? We must be taking about two different players. Or you must only have watched him when he was standing still.

  35. Rambo Ramsey

    Welbeck should be the first one out of the door. Anyone who says otherwise are kidding themselves. The guy is like Wilshere and Sanogo rolled into one, unacceptable fitness record and an embarrassment to the name ‘striker’.

  36. Ishola70

    Lacazette was one of the best options Arsenal could get in its present situation.

    That situation being now no Champions League football and a club that hasn’t won one of the real big trophies for so long.

    The other realistic options were Belotti who Torino won’t sell right now unless his 100m release clause is triggered. It’s very doubtful that the player is even interested in leaving Torino this summer anyhow. With the World Cup coming up next year he is a player that gets picked by the national team while playing for Torino. Under those circumstances it is entirely understandable that he wouldn’t want to up sticks from Torino right now.

    Other one was Icardi. No club is ever seriously linked with him because he is a walking soap opera.

    Aubameyang even before we get into the debate about him not really being a real team player apparently on top of a 60m-70m transfer he is expecting a huge wage to whatever club he joins. And there is no indication at all that Aubameyang would want to leave Dortmund for a club with no Champions League football. None. He was abandoned by PSG who show much more ambition than Arsenal and are in CL and this big wage that he wants fell through when a Chinese club pulled out of signing him. Liverpool who have been linked with him they now look like they are not interested either.

    Now please tell me which striker you would want realistically instead of Lacazette. No good crying or whinging because of not being able to be realistic about this matter and putting your head in the sand re: Arsenal’s standing and position in world football right now.

  37. Dissenter

    Bamford,
    For all the so called movement that Welbeck gave us in the final, we only scored the first goal due to a Sanchez volleyball block and good finish despite Welbeck’s best attempt to interfere.
    The second goal only came about one minute after Giroud was brought in. He created the goal with a brilliant pass that fooled three Chelsea defenders.

    That’s a typical Welbeck performance for you. His running makes you think he’s doing more but the actual numbers tell the real truth.

  38. Dissenter

    We’ve seen enough of Martial in the two seasons at United to be able to put a big Asterix in from of his name. Blaming Mourhino is unfair because he was already losing his mojo under Van Gaal.
    He has a big start and just petered out over time. Why would anyone even juxtapose him with Lacazette. They are in different leagues because their numbers tell so.

  39. Rambo Ramsey

    Common sense dictates you would want a second choice player to be ready to roll into action whenever called on. Not someone who warms the hospital bed for three-fourths of the season.

  40. Wallace

    Lacazette & Aubameyang are killers. pure goalscorers, but with limited technique. Martial has the ability to be another Henry/RVP. that 9/10 hybrid. creator & scorer. a far more exciting player, in my opinion.

  41. Ishola70

    Martial has been a massive disappointment since joining Man United.

    I like many others were impressed with him in France and thought United were onto a good thing in signing him but not only has his football been a disappointment worryingly his attitude on many occasions has been very questionable and that is a real bad mark against him. Questionable character. Has talent but only a lunatic would pay out 60m for him at this time with what he has shown at Man United thus far.

    Besides only The Daily Sieg Mail is reporting Martial and links to Arsenal.

  42. Dissenter

    The people slating Lacazette now will be the same ones slating Wenger for not getting him had he gone to do well in La Liga under Simeone.
    Atletico was going to use him to replace Greizmann, thats how good they think he is.

  43. R.S.P.C.Arsenal

    Martial will amount to nothing

    He’s gone from rags to riches n he is content two season treating water had dulled his appetite fpr the game …

    Unless it mbappe we should not sign a striker …

  44. Wallace

    Rambo

    “You’re comical, Wallace. I doubt there’s anyone else on here who can spin a shambolic fitness record into a positive sentence.”

    just saying the guy’s out long term (6/7 mths) but wins his place back within weeks of returning. probably still a long way short of peak fitness. not entirely unimpressive.

  45. Rambo Ramsey

    Wally Wallace, considering the fact that we may well lose Sanchez and Giroud, two players who have scored the bulk of our goals in the last few years, an signing an accomplished finisher is probably the most sensible move we could make.

  46. R.S.P.C.Arsenal

    When Sanchez goes throw in donyell males … give the lad a chance

    It’s a transition season anyway we’re expectoration is low …

  47. Dissenter

    Bamford
    You’re a big fan of stats. Aren’t you?
    The cold reality of numbers are against Welbeck. I like the lad as well but have to acknowledge that he’s not a top-8 club striker. At United he was behind Berbatov, Rooney and Chicharito – 4th striker. That’s all he should be in a big club.

  48. Dissenter

    RSPC,
    “It was the gamble they were taking diss ,I’m not convinced about the man”

    …and that’s precisely my point.
    Atletico haven’t always delivered on replacing elite strikers with just-as-good-strikers.
    They replaced Dieo Forlan with Sergio Aguero
    They replaced Sergio Aguero with Ramadel Falcao
    They replaced Falcao with Costa
    They replaced Costa with Greizmann
    They were willing to spend 65 million euros on Lacazette to replace Greizman.

    They have a penchant for getting it right with strikers. That’s a good risk to take.

  49. Ishola70

    Nothing is being reported about Goretzka to Arsenal in the German press.

    All they say is that Schalke have to make a decision in whether to sell him to Bayern this summer or he stays on at Schalke for another season and Bayern nab him for free thereafter as his contract is nearing it’s end at Schalke.

  50. R.S.P.C.Arsenal

    All the German teams are just feeder clubs to,Bayern …
    As the way we are to city an spurs to united ….

  51. Doublethink

    Lacazette had the best conversion rate in Europe at 38.9% almost 5% better than the next best. He also scored more league goals than Giroud, Perez, Walcott and Welbeck but he definitely won’t improve us.

  52. Marko

    If I could only have one of them as my CF next season — and let’s say they were all a comparable price — I would probably go with Martial, but the margins would be narrower for me than you suggest.

    Where people getting Martial as this great potential striker from honestly? Both Monaco and United have used him wide and yet for some unknown reason a bunch of people on a blog somewhere see him as a better striker than Lacazette who’s been banging them in for last three seasons and Aubameyang who’s one of the most prolific strikers in Europe. it beggers belief. At least Mbappe in one season has justified his potential transfer fee Martial hasn’t looked like it so far

  53. Wallace

    Rambo

    “Wally Wallace, considering the fact that we may well lose Sanchez and Giroud, two players who have scored the bulk of our goals in the last few years, an signing an accomplished finisher is probably the most sensible move we could make.”

    well, let’s see, eh? far as I understand it Giroud & Alexis are still Arsenal players. I’d like us to buy Lacazette, just offered the opinion I thought Martial has the ability to reach a level beyond what the other two are capable of.

  54. Wallace

    Marko

    “At least Mbappe in one season has justified his potential transfer fee Martial hasn’t looked like it so far.”

    not true. people stopped talking about the size of his fee about 5 games into his Utd career. he had an excellent debut season. maybe tailing off slightly just towards the end of it.

  55. Marko

    Wallace you did in fact say you’d prefer Martial over two more prolific and you know actual strikers. Which is makes no sense to me. Just buy the prolific striker we don’t need another project cause this manager isn’t capable

  56. Bamford10

    As I said, I can see an argument for preferring Martial to either Lacazette or Aubameyang, and I can see the opposing arguments as well. Above I said I might prefer Martial by a slim margin, but after reading a couple of others’ posts, I’m back to probably thinking I’d prefer Lacazette or Aubameyang.

  57. karim

    Dissenter

    Not sure Atletico wanted Lacazette as a replacement for Griezmann.
    Think they were meant to play together.

    Gameiro or more likely Carrasco ( Bayern ) would have been on their way out.

  58. Kent

    When people say: ” I watched Martial when he was in Ligue1″ … about signing him. Lol he played like 2200 minutes during his two last seasons. Lacazette for now is a LOT better striker. He is a real goalmachine (90 goals in 3 seasons).

  59. reality check

    I dunno.. i thought martial is a good move.. he just became confused, let down by being stuck out on the wing.

    He was bought by LVG, he was given no.9, he was played at CF… then it was all taken away from him.

    How would you feel at 20/21 years old. We make all these excuses for grown men like gibbs, Jack, walcott and ramsey yet be harsh to players younger than them?

    He’s a good player.

  60. karim

    The general opinion in France ( I’m sharing it ) is that Lacazette is way better than 2/3 seasons ago, he carried Lyon on his shoulders last season, his all-round play has significantly improved and this is a player that never doubts.

  61. reality check

    Just to put it in perspective… The Ox is older than Martial for goodness sake…

    How many years and excuses we’ve given Ox.. and he’s still a brainless idiot. He has heart, he’s athletic.. but brainless

  62. Bamford10

    Dissenter

    I’m neither a “stats guy” nor an “anti-stats guy”. I think stats have their place in assessing player but that they must always be put in context and that they have their limitations.

    For me, stats never tell the whole story. Indeed I’d say they tell only a small part of the story.

    At the same time, however, I think stats are important: one, because they are a kind of bottom-line assessment of a player’s contributions; and two, because they can serve as a counter-balance to certain subjective and aesthetic preferences we all have.

  63. Bamford10

    Karim

    That’s good to hear. I hope we sign him, and I hope he works out well for us. I remain of the view, though, that he must have top quality attacking players both to his right and his left — not to mention a top class CAM — to be effective in the PL or CL.

  64. Wallace

    Marko

    “Wallace you did in fact say you’d prefer Martial over two more prolific and you know actual strikers.”

    yes, signing Martial would excite me more than the other two.

    crazy, eh?

  65. Dissenter

    Karim
    Greizmann was bound for United for a world record fee until Atletico lost their appeal over the transfer ban.
    Lacazette was set to go to Atletico to replace him. This are facts man.
    They are best friends vacationing together in the states right now but they weren’t supposed to play together.
    Carrasco was supposed to compete with Lacazette.

  66. Dissenter

    If we had ambition then we should be holding a fire sale right now…getting rid of dross; Chuba Akpom, Dubuchy, , Gibbs, Jenks, etc. The dross should be gone by now.
    Oh wait, no one is interested/ no one can afford to buy our dross.

  67. Dissenter

    This Cameroon v Germany game is frenetic. Cameroon have to win and Germany being Germany know how to manage games.

  68. Dissenter

    Martial needs a change of leagues to re-ignoite his career. He doesn’t need a lateral move to Arsenal. He needs to go somewhere and play every singe week to rediscover his mojo.
    That’s what happens when you get married too young. He doesn’t have to worry abut p**** no more.

  69. Wallace

    Marko

    “Yes it is crazy Wallace. We need a prolific striker and that’s not Martial on the previous 3 years evidence.”

    we have a prolific striker – Alexis.

  70. Dissenter

    The Russians can’t even fill up four stadiums for thew confederations cup, even on hot summer days.
    It’s not looking good for the World Cup next summer because the foreign influx of fans won’t be massive.

  71. Ishola70

    Dissenter:
    “Greizmann was bound for United for a world record fee until Atletico lost their appeal over the transfer ban.
    Lacazette was set to go to Atletico to replace him. This are facts man.”

    Yeah Griezmann was making all sorts of come and get me noises to Man United at the tail end of last season and was indicating that his time at Atletico was done and we know Man United have no qualms whatsoever in paying out the real big fee transfers for such players. But then with the ban on Atletico it looks like Griezmann felt he could not leave Atletico in the lurch at this time.

    Looks very much like Griezmann to United and Lacazette to Atletico was a transfer chain that came unstuck because of Atletico’s transfer ban.

  72. Dissenter

    Alexis Sanchez is bound to tire out at some point.
    By the summer of 2019, he would have played International football in the previous 6 summers.
    2019- Copa America
    2018-World cup
    2017 – Confederation cup
    2016- Copa America centennial
    2015-Copa America
    2014 – World Cup

    This over-playing pattern and his penchant for playing injured will mean he won’t have the longevity that will justify a massive contract from us.
    I’m making a case to sell him off to whomever this summer. It will be a very hard blow but it’s the right thing to do.

  73. Kent

    Walcott and Giroud was involved in 36 percent of our goals (121 goals). Total they made 35 goals and 9 assists. Its not just to throw them away.

    We need to keep Giroud at least and bring in Lacazette, but even then im not sure we Will score more goals.

    Maybe sell Welbeck and Perez instead?

  74. China

    Wow dissenter I knew he was overplayed but didn’t realize it was that bad

    That’s a pretty serious issue. He may be lucky enough to ride it through or it may mean that he ends up tailing away younger than he should die to the relentless over exertion

    Fair point

  75. Marko

    we have a prolific striker – Alexis.

    Not a striker. He’s an attacker sure and we tried him as a striker over Giroud at times last season much like we tried Walcott the previous season and he wasn’t a striker either. Giroud and Welbeck are our strikers.

  76. China

    Wallace

    “well, firstly he’s only played about 10 games for each of the last two seasons. and both seasons he ended up first choice. must be doing a few things okay. I think he’s an excellent 2nd choice #9”

    Wallace whatever you’re smoking hit me up.

    He’s only scored more than 6 league goals in two seasons in his whole career so far. He’s never scored 10 league goals even once.

    He doesn’t get assists.

    Which part of him is ‘excellent’?????

  77. China

    If you’re a striker and you don’t score that’s many you damn well better be bringing something really useful to the team

    If your number one attribute is running then I’m sorry but players who can put in a shift are ten a penny.

    We’re supposed to have aspirations of being a big club. How easily the fans are impressed

  78. Wallace

    Marko

    when you have a guy in your side who guarantees 25-30 goals a season he’s your main attacker. whatever you want to call him, he’s your main guy. we aren’t going to have two 30 goal players in our first team. just doesn’t happen. in England anyway.

  79. China

    Yeah let’s have a 25 goal a season player and a 5 goal a season player as his backup

    Quality stuff right there

    Also Wallace lol at you using his involvement in the first team as a sign that he’s impressive

    The manager is relentlessly lambasted for poor team selection for the best part of a decade now and you’re lauding a player as impressive because he gets picked by him

    Yeah well denilson must’ve been amazing because he walked straight into the first team for years and almost never got dropped

    Highly impressive bro

  80. Wallace

    China

    “He’s only scored more than 6 league goals in two seasons in his whole career so far. He’s never scored 10 league goals even once. He doesn’t get assists.Which part of him is ‘excellent’?????”

    Arsenal – 17 goals in 46 starts
    England – 14 goals in 34 apps

    if he can get an injury free run he could easily be an 1 in 2 striker.

  81. Dissenter

    This Chilean team is dog tired. that’s what happens when they show up with the same 15 players every summer.
    They are like the circus.

  82. Marko

    we aren’t going to have two 30 goal players in our first team. just doesn’t happen. in England anyway.

    Someone tell Sanchez not to move to Bayern or City then cause they’ve already got Lewandowski and Aguero. I mean with your (with all due respect) silly logic then yes we should target Martial who doesn’t score enough because we’ve got Sanchez who does all the scoring. Can’t have Lacazette here scoring his share of the goals.

  83. Frost

    Dissenter

    Would agree with you if Sanchez was a ST as they are everywhere now. But dude is an elite goal scoring winger. Do you know how few these are in world football? Only clubs i can think of that have one of this are LIV CHE BARCA RM DORTMUND & ATL There’s literally no winger with a better output than him in the Premier League.

    I see your reasoning, but You’re saying Sell a player who has had a very good injury record so far & who’s GUARANTEED to get you at least 25+ goals&assists, cuz he MIGHT become a sicknote in the future? Leaning towards the guarantee here. As we not talking about Van Persie.

    Consider the manager here too. Add an elite striker to him which Wenger is most likely to do & you’ve improved your team tremendously. Sell him & the Only way you replace his output imo is with two world class strikers. Wenger is not gonna go buy that.

  84. Frost

    On Sanchez he’s 28 think he still has a good 4yrs in him.

    Worrying the number of games he’s played so far tho.

  85. Dissenter

    Frost
    Sanchez has been uncontrollable since he came to Arsenal. He ant to play every single game even when Wenger was trying to save himself. It doesn’t help that he surrounded by hares and ponies though.
    He needs to go somewhere where the manager tells him to seat his butt down and even skip national team games to prolong his career. Maybe Guardiola or Conte will be big enough to bring him back to his senses.

  86. China

    ‘If he can be injury free’

    That’s wonderful stuff Wallace. Right out of the if wilshere can be injury free poetry book

    He’s 26 years old and he’s averaged 3.5 league goals a season

    There is no justifying this record Wallace.

    He’s been with us for 2 years and has scored 10 league goals.

    Let’s look at his European record. He’s scored 3 goals in 8 appearances. Not bad! Except they all came in one game against a shite team.

    He’s scored 4 in 9 in the fa cup. That’s decent. The single acceptable stat that guy has managed in 2 years.

    Also lol at you using starts to make his goals to games ratio look much better than it is. Has it not crossed your mind that the reason he’s usually been on the bench for Arsenal is because he’s demonstrably inferior to giroud – a player who is already rightly criticized for not being top class

    How about his England record? England are absolutely shite and have been for ages and he still never managed to establish himself as a first choice. He’s that forever backup floating around the squad like a bad smell like the jermaine defoes of this world. Defoe has a far better record however…

  87. Frost

    Dissenter

    Agree he probably needs a manager to save him from himself.

    Ridiculous the number of games Chile have played the past few yrs. They almost seem to be in a competition every summer.

  88. China

    To put this into perspective Kanu used to get lambasted for not scoring enough, but for most of his seasons he was getting welbeck type numbers in the league

    The difference being that kanu had some ridiculous close control and was great for build up play, and he was our 4th choice striker.

    Welbeck gets those numbers as second choice and you’re fawning over him.

    Let’s use that as a bench mark for what we should be aiming for, since that was our last successful team.

    When your second choice striker is worse than the 4th choice striker in your last successful team you have to seriously question if this is a player to be banking on

    It’s bollocks faith in players like this that leads wenger to provide absolute banter about how it’s his best ever squad lol

    Stop lying to yourself man please

    There are so many legit arguments to be had, like if auba is really worth more than lacazette. But if you think welbeck is capable of being a 1 in 2 striker, staying injury free and doing this reliably for years to come then I literally feel sorry for you

  89. Dissenter

    Wallace the in-house Pollyanna

    ‘If he can be injury free’
    If my aunt had balls, she’d be my uncle’
    If I won the lottery I wouldn’t never have to travel in economy class ever again.

    Shiiiiiiiit!
    The dust is 26 year old and his highest tally in the league in one season is 9 goals, only twice..

  90. China

    I dunno about you guys but I’d prefer it if there weren’t so many international competitions

    As with anything, the more tournaments you enter, the more it kinda devalues them for me

    I feel it should just be kept with the World Cup and your local tournament every other 2 years. The players need a rest and does anyone really care about the confederations cup and the like?

  91. China

    Would be curious to know your thoughts on a European super league as well?

    The 20 or so ‘biggest’ teams in Europe in a regular league format

    There are big questions about which teams would be invited, but I for one would love that. Every week would be a blockbuster for your team and the champions come the end would have worked so damn hard to earn it

    That kinda league would surely generate monstrous TV money and sponsorship money so you’d have pretty much all the teams loaded with talent and cash. I’d love it personally

  92. Ishola70

    China:
    “I dunno about you guys but I’d prefer it if there weren’t so many international competitions As with anything, the more tournaments you enter, the more it kinda devalues them for meI feel it should just be kept with the World Cup and your local tournament every other 2 years. The players need a rest and does anyone really care about the confederations cup and the like?”

    This current “competition” is just glorified international friendlies anyway.

    Quite funny when fans were making big assessments about this competition in previous years. Then the last one where Brazil were crowned World Champions by so many on the basis of looking so good in the prior Confederations Cup. That didn’t quite work out did it.

  93. Dissenter

    Now Cameroon has to play Nigeria twice back to back foe the WC qualifiers. They won’t be in the World Cup.

  94. Wallace

    China

    “The manager is relentlessly lambasted for poor team selection for the best part of a decade now and you’re lauding a player as impressive because he gets picked by him.”

    do you actually watch the games? we’re so much better and more fluid with Welbeck at #9. I love what Giroud gives us from the bench, but teams just jam us up when he starts. every game where we’re really at it has been with Welbeck or Alexis up top, the opposition defence 20yds further back, and our midfield with space to breathe.

  95. Dissenter

    Why doe they have a third place game in the confederations cup?
    Yet another meaningless game to injure players who are already at breaking point.

  96. Dissenter

    Wallace,
    “Do you actually watch the games? we’re so much better and more fluid with Welbeck at #9. I love what Giroud gives us from the bench, but teams just jam us up when he starts. every game where we’re really at it has been with Welbeck or Alexis up top, the opposition defence 20yds further back, and our midfield with space to breathe”
    Welbeck started two of our worst two performances this season; the Liverpool v Arsenal game and Crystal palace v Arsenal game. He also started the worst performances and was anonymous until he was replaced.

  97. Rambo Ramsey

    If we sign a pacy striker like Lacazette, what would be the point of Welbeck?

    Giroud with his different attributes and penchant for scoring off the bench would represent a solid Plan B. Whereas ‘I score fuck all’ Duckbeck is just a watered down version of a Lacazette.

  98. Rambo Ramsey

    I’m never gonna understand this Welbeck love in that certain Arsenal fans have got going. Most of the Manc reject’s three years at Arsenal has been spent at the hospital and the ‘entertaining and memorable’ moments he’s provided us have mainly been his embarrassing airkicks in front of open goals.

  99. Dissenter

    Wallace,
    Giroud isn’t good enough to be a starting striker but he should be a definite number two.
    Welbeck was only good enough to be number four behind Berbatov, Rooney and Chicharito at United.

  100. Rambo Ramsey

    Wallace, any striker with a bit of pace and energy can give us that. Its no reason to persist with a perpetually crocked and shockingly inept finisher.

    How hard is this to get?

    Duckbeck isn’t good enough to be even a consideration as striker at a top club. I’d wager he wouldn’t even be a starting CF at a bottom half of the table team.

  101. Bamford10

    The antipathy for Welbeck from some here is ferocious and frankly a little bizarre.

    If we keep him we keep him because he is relatively skillful, pacy and athletic, has decent dribbling and can play wide or through the center.

    No one has him in the XI, and he wouldn’t get us much in the market. Giroud is 30 years old and can fetch us 25m plus. He has never been good enough and has frankly been painful to watch since his arrival, though I concede he has done a job at times.

    It’s all moot, I guess, as who stays and who goes is out of all hands gathered here.

  102. Bamford10

    I’m revising my earlier take. I prefer Lacazette to Martial, irrespective of the lattter’s talent.

    Alexis + Lacazette + Lemar
    is superior IMO than
    Alexis + Martial + Lemar
    though I still can see Wallace’s pov.

    Question for Le Grove: which of the below is a better second choice front three?

    Alexis + Welbeck + Lemar
    or
    Alexis + Giroud + Lemar

    Oxlade + Welbeck + Walcott
    or
    Oxlade + Giroud + Walcott

    Whatever his weaknesses, I think the Welbeck three is better in both cases.

  103. Emiratesstroller

    I believe that what Wenger suggested at end of last season will happen. Arsenal will bring in only 2-3 new players.

    We know that Sanogo has been released so that leaves still 32 players on the books and we have 25 places to fill.

    I assume that Arsenal will offload the 5 players who were sent out on loan
    ie Szczesny [unless Ospina leaves], Chambers [possibly on loan], Wilshere,
    Campbell and Akpom. None of these players apart from perhaps Chambers
    has a future at Arsenal.

    Gibbs is likely to leave in view of Kolasinac’s arrival. Also if Lacazette arrives
    I would expect Giroud or Lucas Peres to leave.

    I think that Mbappe would only arrive if Sanchez leaves. Otherwise I think
    that Arsenal’s third slot will be either Central Midfield to cover for Cazorla
    who is out with long term injury or possibly a winger in which case Lucas
    could be offloaded as well as Giroud.

    The remaining two departures should be Jenkinson and Debuchy both of whom are surplus to requirement.

  104. Marko

    He’s better off Karim. No point in going back to Italy just for the sake of it and getting dogs abuse and no big clubs will touch him given his history.

  105. Kent

    @PhilSchoen of beIN: “I thought Mbappe to Arsenal was impossible. Now, in my honest opinion it just might happen. Thomas Lemar, as well.”

  106. Samir

    Mbappe AND Lemar is a pipe dream. Along with Lacazette. It would mean Sanchez and Ozil would be leaving surely.

    Can’t see it happening at all tbh.

  107. R.S.P.C.Arsenal

    Wallace , marko

    Strange but martial would be good given the 9 role

    United have fuxked him about ..

    I think the lad would be better than lacerezzete

    Mbappe first call tho

  108. R.S.P.C.Arsenal

    Wenger thought Sanchez wax gone last summer so he got Perez in

    Now Sanchez is off why don’t he say Perez here’s your chance

    Get mbappe or martial for olly

    Send gaberial out on loan … keep chambers boy playing goodnowb

  109. R.S.P.C.Arsenal

    The only reading wenger won’t let the ox go is that he is frightened another manager will get the best out of him an make him world class

  110. R.S.P.C.Arsenal

    This season will be dire , the board knows it
    They are just allowing him his last fling , mid this contract he should announce that he will be stepping down at thevend of this contract …

    So this is a jobbing two year contract. ..

  111. Elmo

    RSPC

    That’s why I prefer that we buy younger players this summer.

    Wenger is going to waste whoever comes in. I’d rather sell Alexis and Ozil (if the alternative is Bosmans next summer) and buy some 22-26 year olds who will be at their peak in a couple of years when the manager hopefully finally goes.

    That would be better than Wenger handing over a squad with 31 year old Ozil, 30 year old Aubameyang etc, and the new manager having to start from nothing.

  112. R.S.P.C.Arsenal

    Elmo

    Agreed

    The other option is that they could sack him if he under performs …unlike
    Y
    But there must be elements in the board who will be ready with the board knives out after three defeats on the spin in september

  113. N5

    Just to muscle in to the Welbeck conversation, I’ve got to say I agree with those that say he’s not good enough. He is possibly the most underwhelming players we have in our squad.

    I’m shocked he has both Arsenal and Manure on his resume, he’s a great pretender.

  114. China

    Yeah Wallace I do watch games, and I’ve noticed welbeck put in some *horrible* performances

    He’s put in a few good performances and a few horrible ones. That’s his entire time at Arsenal in a nut shell.

    I prefer players who you can be confident won’t be awful to players who are awful 50% of the time

    Talk of watching the games lol. How you can act like he usually plays really well is comical. He puts in literally 5 good performances a season and that’s enough for you to be impressed.

    Also why do you use this stawman argument of saying we’re slow when we start giroud? I don’t want giroud to be first choice. I’ve said it 10000 times. Giroud isn’t good enough to be first choice. But he isn’t good enough to be second choice is a top team as he’s a 1 in 3 striker. Welbeck is a 1 in 5 striker over the course of every competition for his entire career.

    But sure he’s good enough because he’s provides some room to breathe for our midfield. Nevermind that dozens of strikers could do that for us and this isn’t some special quality unique to Danny, I don’t know why this impresses you

  115. Johnsgiles

    Breaking news …. Arsene just bought a side salad … Should be playing on the left side of the table if the waiter gets it right

  116. China

    We’re drawing against stoke with 15 minutes left. They have 10 men behind the ball.

    Who do you bring on?

    Giroud – keep throwing crosses low or high into the box and odds are reasonable that he’ll nick something

    Or

    Danny – he doesn’t really score… he doesn’t really assist… he doesn’t really hold the ball up… but you know he runs and you know the midfield can breathe and we’ll you know, qualidee etc.