Usmanov bid is not about buying Arsenal

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OH MY GOD WHAT IS HAPPENING BRUH!

Alisher Usmanov has launched a pitiful takeover bid of Arsenal, offering embattled Stan K a 30% premium on the value of Arsenal.

The bid, according to the FT, has been rejected. Tantalisingly, they also say that other investors are circling.

The Uzbek uses a very fancy PR firm called Finsbury, they look after all sorts of ‘interesting’ characters, and it’s fair to say that this story placement has ‘ulterior motive’ written all over it.

What do we know here?

Stan K is from Missouri, he’s 69 years, he lived through the bad times with the Soviets… and he’ll have a very specific opinion on anyone that feels a touch ‘cold war’ era (unlike you know who right now).

There is no way he’ll sell to Alisher. He won’t give the second biggest shareholder a seat on the board. It’s safe to say, he doesn’t have a high opinion of this guy. Usmanov knows this, he is so adamant about this, he went and bought a major stake in Everton (via his partner Moshiri).

So what do we think is going on here? Is he shaking out investors to show their hand? Is he trying to get the ball rolling on someone buying out Stan so he can rid himself of his shares at a premium and take Everton stratospheric? 

Absolutely.

Why would you tell your PR team to mention the other investors? You wouldn’t. This is an invite.

So back onto the American. Why would he sell up? He bought the club for a pittance, it’s more than doubled in value. Logic would say Premier League football isn’t getting smaller… we’re one TV deal away from a major content player like Google, Apple, Netflix or Amazon buying all the rights to every game so they can sell matches like music singles… which suddenly makes Premier League TV rights 3 times the value. So why would he sell up?

Well, he’s in trouble.

1. St Louis are suing him for a billion dollars for allegedly lying about his intentions.

2. The stadium build in Inglewood has run an extra year over because of the rain problems LA suffered this winter.

3. Top 4 now requires effort as smaller teams have more cash and larger teams are investing in proper managers. There are now 7 teams that could win the league. Usmanov bringing Everton into the mix.

4. Fans hate him. There’s no love there whatsoever. He doesn’t give a fuck about football. His son is an incapable leader, dropping disaster wherever he’s deployed. 

Maybe sell up while the going is good… before you have to invest £200m to fix the mess. Just look at Doug Ellis (Villa) and the issues he had, and the money he spend to not make the elite.

The time is ripe to sell up. Make a massive profit. Hand the club over to people who actually give a fuck.

Very exciting times ahead.

The FA Cup feels a ripe place to go STAN OUT hardcore.

Watch. This. Space.

The life-sapping tenure of the most average owner in the league could be nearing an end… and in the process, Mr Wenger will be gone as well.

… and as I’ve said before, the post-Wenger years will be fucking golden. I can’t wait.

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978 Responses to “Usmanov bid is not about buying Arsenal”

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  1. tonyd

    From Wenger:
    “This group of players is good enough to come back. They have gone through difficult periods this season and they have bounced back in a very strong way. That will help them absolutely next season but first, I think we have to keep 90 per cent of these players together and find one or two more players who strengthen the group. We don’t need many.”

    Wenger has paved the way to continuing for another two years after indicating that he would be prepared to some structural changes.

    From Alex Fuguson
    Yesterday he also received backing from his old rival Sir Alex Ferguson.

    “There’s no evidence that sacking a manager brings success, but there is evidence that Arsène Wenger, myself and Brian Clough can bring success with long-termism,” said Ferguson. “The ridiculous situation with the sort of pressure that Arsène is under, I wonder, really, do they realise the job that Arsène has done?

    “He has come through a forest of criticism for months now and he has never bowed. He has sailed right through. He has shown a determination, a stubbornness. That is a quality.

    “I’m not sure they’ll ever get another manager like that. It’s quite easy to say, ‘Yeah, get rid of him’, but who are they going to get who is going to keep that club the way they are, the way they’ve been for the last 20 years?

    “I feel sorry for him, because I think he’s shown outstanding qualities in how he’s handled the situation. I don’t know many that could have done that.”

    So only 2 players needed and he wants to keep 90% of the squad. With Sanches going and maybe Ozil, looks like we are keeping the dross.

    Fuguson is like Neville whats to keep Wenger in the job so they are no threat to United.

    How can Fuguson talk about How well Wenger has done. Fuguso would never have accepted no EPL win for 12 years or no CL success.

  2. reality check

    “There’s no evidence that sacking a manager brings success, but there is evidence that Arsène Wenger, myself and Brian Clough can bring success with long-termism”
    -fergie

    Er…. Chelsea

  3. tonyd

    Looks like Wenger has already got tailor made excuses for losing to Chelsea next week.

    No Kos
    No Gabriel
    No Sanches (Maybe thigh strain) I’m sure he’ll play because without him the score line could become comical. Wenger playing him while not fit will play right into the hands of the Chile national coach who Wenger remonstrated with about playing Sanches when supposedly injured.

    “It looked spectacular but when you watch it again it’s a bit harsh,” Wenger said afterwards. “But what could we do?”

    The Arsenal manager may well ask himself the same question when he tries to select his team for the trip to Wembley, with Gabriel Paulista and Alexis Sanchez withdrawn from the game with injury. Gabriel was carried off the pitch on a stretcher after suffering what looked to be a serious knee injury in a collision with Valencia, while Sanchez suffered a hamstring issue late in the game when Everton were pushing for an equaliser before Aaron Ramsey’s delightful, curled effort decided the game.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/arsenal-injury-crisis-laurent-koscielny-tackle-red-card-harsh-arsene-wenger-fa-cup-final-a7748001.html

  4. tonyd

    Didn’t take long for Wenger to blame the toxic fans for the team failing to get top 4.More to come from him, I’m sure, especially when we lose to Chelsea.That will be our fault as well.

    The delusional transference has begun from Wenger!!!!!!

    “Arsene Wenger has admitted that speculation over his future damaged his side’s push for the Champions League and claimed the ‘psychological environment’ for his players became ‘horrendous’.

    Arsenal failed to qualify for Europe’s elite competition for the first time in 20 years despite beating Everton 3-1, as Liverpool overcame Middlesbrough 3-0 at Anfield.

    During a tense post-match press conference, Wenger conceded that uncertainty over his future has contributed to Arsenal’s fifth-place finish, with the manager still to announce whether he will remain at the club next season. Asked whether he accepts responsibility, Wenger said: ‘Yes. Of course.’ The Frenchman added: ‘

    ‘We played since January in a very difficult environment for different reasons. That is very difficult for the players to cope with. There are some other reasons we will talk about another day. But the psychological environment for the group of the players was absolutely horrendous.

    ‘Certainly my personal situation has contributed to that. But they should not question, I am professional, as long as I am somewhere I do my job until the last day. You could not question my love or my loyalty to this club, because I said no to every club in the world to stay here with very restricted finances for years. So I don’t understand really why they question that commitment.

    ‘You have been at the games, and you cannot say that the environment for the players was especially positive.’Arsenal’s victory was played against a backdrop of hostile chants towards club majority shareholder Stan Kroenke after the American resisted an offer from Uzbek investor Alisher Usmanov. Arsenal supporters chanted for Kroenke to ‘get out of our club’ in the second half and after the full-time whistle

    .”Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-4527898/Arsenal-played-horrendous-atmosphere-claims-Wenger.html#ixzz4hlQJHMCA

  5. Adam A. Carbarundum

    An awful lot of I Don’t Knows from a guy who professes to know more than anyone else.

  6. tonyd

    Wenger got nailed with the press’s questions, most answers he starts with “I don’t know”The press are going to have a field day with Wenger in the next 12 months.

    ARSENE WENGER’S POST-MATCH CONFERENCE – FULL TRANSCRIPT

    What is your reaction to missing out on the Champions League?

    ‘I don’t know yet, because we have not started the Champions League. But it’s very sad, because for 20 years we were in it, and it is the first year we will not be in it. It’s very strange because for 75 points we are one point short, and of course you can look everywhere where we did drop points.

    ’‘Overall I believe that we played since January in a very difficult environment for different reasons. Some obviously that you know about, and that is very difficult for the group of players to cope with that.

    ‘Some other reasons where we will talk about another day. But psychological environment for the group of the players was absolutely horrendous. I am very proud of what they have done, the way they responded and finished the season.

    ’Why didn’t you join the players walking around the pitch on the lap of honour? (Wenger was on the pitch but stayed in his dugout)

    ‘I wanted the players, they have been disturbed enough. I was out there, to show respect, but I wanted the players to have the quiet lap of honour they deserved.

    ’So you’ve not said farewell then?

    ‘No, not at all.

    ’What are your thoughts on the chants against Stan Kroenke?

    ‘I think you respect everybody in life. I respect Stan Kroenke a lot. He is not at fault if we did not reach the Champions League tonight. It is the technical department who is responsible for that. I don’t see what he has to do with that.

    ’What are your thoughts on that situation?

    ‘Look, that’s not my problem. A club works when everybody does his job. We live in a society where today everybody has an opinion, people don’t stop to talk [don’t stop talking], they do little and they talk a lot. But that doesn’t move society forward, what moves society forward is people who work, really, and talk not too much.

    ’Is Stan here at the game?

    “I don’t know.”

    Is this the most difficult it has ever been at Arsenal for you, and why?

    ‘I don’t know. It has been difficult, yes. Certainly my personal situation has contributed to that. But they should not question, I am professional, as long as I am somewhere I do my job until the last day. You could not question my love or my loyalty to this club, because I said no to every club in the world to stay here with very restricted finances for years. So I don’t understand really why the question that commitment.

    ’What about Usmanov?

    “That again is not my problem.”

    Arsenal lost nine games this season, where do you need to improve?

    ‘Look, I will tell you as well we won 23. And in the unbeaten year (2003-04) they won 26. So we are not far away. It’s true that we lost too many games and that’s where we will find the points that we missed tonight. That was down to a period where we weren’t stable defensively, and unsettled mentally as well, by the exit, the way it happened against Bayern Munich.’

    Should your future have been sorted sooner?

    ‘You have been at the games, and you cannot say that the environment for the group of players was especially positive.’

    Why has it not been sorted?‘

    I don’t know. What is important is that we do our job. We are professional people and a part of being professional is to perform when the environment is not positive so we have not to look there, as well, as an excuse. But I just say it’s a fact it doesn’t help.’

    Since February time, have you have offers from other teams?

    ‘Look, my personal situation tonight is not so important. I care about this club. Even if I leave one day, I will love this club until the last day of my life and I want the club to do well. That’s all I care about tonight. It’s not my personal situation. It’s just how well the club responds next season.’

    Do you accept responsibility in terms of your personal situation affecting and the general mood?

    ‘Yes. Of course.’

    With your personal situation, it is important, therefore, to have clarity sooner rather than later? Is it a regret that hasn’t happened?‘

    No, because if I stop one day, I will still work until the last day of the season. I left in some other places when I was at the end of the contract and I still worked with the same commitment until the last day of my contract.’

    You obviously have another game, the cup final?

    ‘Oh! What a subject.’

    Is it then important to have clarity before that, surely?

    ‘We won seven of the last eight games, despite the lack of clarity, so I think we have just to focus to win the next one.’

    When did the lack of clarity, then, affect the team?

    ‘It’s a good question. I cannot give you the answer today. I will give you an answer one day. But not today.’Is that because the goal-posts have been moved?‘I don’t understand what you want to hear from me but my situation will be sorted out soon. So let’s prepare for the cup final.’

    Who are you protecting by not talking today?

    ‘I protect nobody.’

    So why not say what the problems have been?

    ‘Because it’s not the moment to speak about some different things. There’s nothing bad.’

    The fans are wondering why they are not in the Champions League?

    ‘You want to use the excuse of the fans to know more! You have to find something different.’

    It just seems like the moment to explain?

    ‘No. It’s not the moment. I am free to decide when is the moment or not.’

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-4527898/Arsenal-played-horrendous-atmosphere-claims-Wenger.html#ixzz4hlYO5Ec5

  7. Herb's Army

    The biggest problem for us is that the club are shrouded in secrecy and when any awkward questions are asked they merely deflect it away and adopt a siege-like mentality of them against the world.
    They lock themselves away and are immune from any outside pressure.
    There are quite a few high-profile Arsenal fans, including the unpalatable Piers Morgan, who has all sorts of media power, but Arsenal don’t care.
    They’re bunkered up, quaffing champagne and laughing all the way to the bank at how easy it is to fleece millions of gullible football fans.
    The whole thing is perversely disgusting.

  8. tonyd

    From Wenger:

    “This group of players is good enough to come back. They have gone through difficult periods this season and they have bounced back in a very strong way. That will help them absolutely next season but first, I think we have to keep 90 per cent of these players together and find one or two more players who strengthen the group. We don’t need many.

    ”Wenger has paved the way to continuing for another two years after indicating that he would be prepared to some structural changes.

    From Alex Ferguson

    Yesterday he also received backing from his old rival Sir Alex Ferguson.“There’s no evidence that sacking a manager brings success, but there is evidence that Arsène Wenger, myself and Brian Clough can bring success with long-termism,” said Ferguson.

    “The ridiculous situation with the sort of pressure that Arsène is under, I wonder, really, do they realise the job that Arsène has done?“He has come through a forest of criticism for months now and he has never bowed. He has sailed right through.

    He has shown a determination, a stubbornness. That is a quality.“

    I’m not sure they’ll ever get another manager like that. It’s quite easy to say, ‘Yeah, get rid of him’, but who are they going to get who is going to keep that club the way they are, the way they’ve been for the last 20 years?“

    I feel sorry for him, because I think he’s shown outstanding qualities in how he’s handled the situation. I don’t know many that could have done that.”

    So only 2 players needed and he wants to keep 90% of the squad. With Sanches going and maybe Ozil, looks like we are keeping the dross.

    Ferguson is like Neville who whats to keep Wenger in the job so they are no threat to United.

    How can Ferguson talk about how well Wenger has done. Ferguson would never have accepted no EPL win for 12 years or no CL success.

  9. tonyd

    Oh well things will get worse for Wenger next season. Key back room people are going to be missing as its going to take a few months to bring in the right people. Signings will not be the required level for our club that’s if they are not carrying disabilities or long term niggling injuries and are used to be playing out of position most of the time.

    The top 8 will improve pro rata with the right signings for their budgets.

    Top 3 will pull further ahead.

    Their manager’s will progress with their innivative long term plans.

    Wenger will keep to his principles of ‘crab football’ and get creamed too many times.

    We are going to let Wenger how we feel vociferously to keep the pressure on him and Kroenke and support any further bids by Ursmanov.

    The press are going to love it and won’t worry about being off Wenger’s future press list when they lay into him. It’ll be payback time.

    Ex players will be comiserating with Wenger saying it’s a sad time to see such a great man going through such bad times, but has has to go now.

    Tony Adams will be smiling.

    And Wenger will be gone by January.

    Then the work can begin in earnest against Kroenke.

    I mean we’re starting to get out of the starting blocks with Do Nothing. No point being like our American friends stopping outside Bagdad and leaving Hussein.

    No we need to get more Churchilian and move on to the head of the snake: Kroenke.

    All in all, I’m going to enjoy next season watching Wenger’s pain in close up on the cameras. It will be such a happy time seeing Wenger finally implode.

    He’s in for a torrid time and I’m going to love every minute NO every second.

    If it takes a seaon for Wenger to go and my gut is wrong, I’ll just see it as more time to enjoy Wenger’s demise from football that matters with elite clubs.

    Doncaster Rovers might be worth a shot. I can’t see Accrington Stanley taking him.

  10. PhD07

    tonydMay 22, 2017 01:43:02

    Firstly-the footballing fraternity have what is called the omerta code..What is said in the dressing room,or behind closed doors-stays behind closed doors.They in effect close ranks-protect their own.

    You the fans,or the general public,are not privy to what they might think privately.In short,you are seen nothing more than pond life-scum of the earth.Peasants that should pay your money and take all the nonsensical horse manure and more thrown at you.Besides if you are dumb enough to buy into the horse manure for so long,then you deserve more of the same and rightly so..

    Secondly-Fergie talking about Clough and long -termism.Well if I recall,Clough eventually took Nottingham Forest down,as in relegated them ,despite his European success with them.
    So,Fergie was wrong on all accounts to use Clough as an example to substantiate his argument to keep Arsene on as a manager at Arsenal.

    He might have been better to use Guy Roux at Auxurre,or Dario Gradi at Crewe Alexandra as a better example.

    Why?
    Well:-
    1)That’s more Arsene’s level (Guy Roux/Dario Gradi)
    2)Arsene’s never won a European Cup-Clough did..

    And lastly Ferguson would never have lasted 13 years at Manure without winning a trophy.
    He would have been bombed out..

    So,in short,this is simply Fergie closing ranks and publicly backing Arsene.
    What he says in private,is an entirely different narrative.I can certainly assure you that..

  11. Mick Kartun

    Sooooooooooooooo……

    We built the new stadium next season to fight the likes of Mytjilannd FC, Donkgor FC, or some Krap FC from the end of the world in Europa League.

    I thought we moved from Highbury to fight the likes of giants of Barca, Madrid, Bayern, alikes.

  12. tonyd

    PhD07
    From my recollection Fergie was one game away from being fired then he made the hasty decision to bring in Beckham, Scholes and co; they saved him from being sacked and went on to create history.

    As always with Fergie, he has an agenda in public. I’m sure he’s laughing privately as is the rest of the football community, especially those at Spurs and Chelsea.

    Wenger is the laughing stock of anyone who loves and understands football.

    The board and Kroenke are the laughing stock of the business community. Their antics would make a good case study for how not to manage a football club.

  13. PhD07

    TonyD

    As for Arsene trying to find excuses for us falling out of top 4,is absolutely laughable.Trying to put some twisted spin on us falling short by one point,having the highest points total,blaming the toxic atmosphere,alluding to some problems in December,etc,etc… is a comedy of epic proportions.

    He thinks the problems,just surfaced this year..
    The man is delusional..

    What we have witnessed today,was not a culmination of this season’s failure to prepare on all fronts,but of seasons gone bye.
    The dam finally burst this season..Though I wanted him gone in 2008,the massive great escapes he has staged over the last 5-6 years finally caught up with him this season.

    The Wenger-Titanic Ship had been leaking like a sieve for nigh on a decade.The ambitious players had foresight and jumped ship..From Vieira,Henry,Hleb,Cesc,Nasri,RVP and now possibly Sanchez..They were privy to the internal shenanigans at the club..

    The one’s that stayed(the crap ones) were happy to dine out and feast like wanton freeloaders.Squatters happy to drink and eat to their heart contents, thinking the party will linger on forever and a day,as long as the host(Arsene) was supplying the bubbly and canapes.

    Well now that ship is finally sinking,and the carpet baggers (BoD & Owner) are quickly running around trying to rearrange the deck chairs,to make it look like restructuring is taking place,after the dam has broken,will now find themselves in an unenviable position of having to spend years salvaging the wreckage that Arsene has created along with his accomplices.
    There will certainly be casualties.Will be interesting to see,who gets thrown overboard..

    It was just a matter of time..Quite tellingly that when the new kids on the block literally saddled up and rode into the EPL on their shiny stallion horses,Arsene was finally exposed.

    Coincidental?Non..
    Just perfect timing to highlight that Arsene’s time was and is up..It certainly was a long time ago..It needed the four amigos to shoot Arsene down..Pity it couldn’t be the five amigos..

    The five amigos being:-
    1)Conte
    2)Poch
    3)Pepe
    4)Klopp
    5)Mourinho

    All that said,there needs to be sweeping changes across upper management.But that’s unlikely to happen anytime soon.
    What will interest me more through the summer,is the situation with Ivan.If Arsene stays-surely Ivan does not have one leg to stand on.Surely he will have to be the casualty of his “Catalyst for Change?”

    How apt and how damning,to be thrown overboard and damned by your own narrative.

    Either way-interesting times ahead on all fronts..

  14. tonyd

    And we would have Mick if Wenger had been fired in 2016 or any season thereafter as any other manager would have been.

    As someone said here yesterday, it’ll take up to 3 years to get the club challenging for top honours once Wenger has departed.

    Looking forward to hearing the real Wenger stories once Wenger has left the building.

  15. Herb's Army

    I agree with you PhD07.
    By the end of their personal little duel, Fergie owned Wenger, and routinely used to embarrass him on the field.
    Rolling over and giving him the title by selling him RvP is right up there alongside Howard Wilkinson selling him Cantona for a paltry £1m.
    Both acts of complete stupidity.
    Cloughie was from a northern working-class town, and was a Labour supporting piss-head. Completely different background than Wenger.
    But it does raise serious questions about David Dein’s level of intellect that he would saddle the club with a distinctly average manager who has some major ADH issues and refuses to leave.
    What a dark, horrible mess The Arsenal are in with no light at the end of this tunnel.
    Wenger is one of the biggest thieves football has ever known.

  16. Herb's Army

    TonyD,

    Back in January 1990, Fergie was said to be under pressure from certain sections of the United fans because there had been no visible progress.
    They faced Nottingham Forest in a 3rd Rd (replay?), and it was widely reported that if they lost, Fergie would be sacked (though Martin Edwards, United’s Chairman at the time, strenuously denied these allegations).
    As it was, Mark Robbins scored the only goal of the game, and United went on to win the FA Cup that year, beating Wrighty’s Palace in a replay.

  17. Mick Kartun

    “You the fans,or the general public,are not privy to what they might think privately.In short,you are seen nothing more than pond life-scum of the earth.Peasants that should pay your money and take all the nonsensical horse manure and more thrown at you.Besides if you are dumb enough to buy into the horse manure for so long,then you deserve more of the same and rightly so.”

    Well the leech or parasite only lives from the unaware hosts, right?

  18. Herb's Army

    The worst insult for me as an Arsenal fan is that in the summer of 1986, Fergie agreed terms with Arsenal to become our new manager after the sacking of Don Howe.
    But in typically snobbish Old Etonian Tim Nice-But-Dim style they screwed up, and we’ve paid a heavy price for it ever since.
    How did they screw up a deal that they’d shaken hands on?
    Arsenal wanted to call an immediate press-conference to announce it publicly, Fergie asked for a two-week delay because he was caretaker manager of Scotland, and had to over-see their World Cup campaign in Mexico.
    Arsenal refused, and just like that the deal was dead.
    Had our BoD not been so ridiculously short-sighted, we’d be where United are today, with multiple titles and at least one -if not two- CL on our CV.
    We wouldn’t need to dream about competing with the elite, we’d be right in the mix.
    That’s the long-term damage it causes when you don’t have clued-up football people amongst your hierarchy.

  19. China

    If wenger thinks we only need two players to fix the wrongs of this season then I’m assuming he’s going for Messi and Ronaldo because we need the best part of 20 more points to win the league………….

  20. Mick Kartun

    Herb

    What did you think if Sir Alex manage the like of Tony Adams Back 4, Petit, Viera, Bergkamp, and Henry?

    Would it be enough for Fergie to give us the CL trophy?

  21. China

    You know like if he came out saying this is miles off where we should be and he’s identifiedsokutions to the problems etc he at least might have been able to con some fence sitters

    But look at his wording. He spoke along the lines of needing to find players in the summer

    He hasn’t found them yet. He doesn’t know who to go for. and people think under different ownership and with a director of football this guy knows what he’s doing. Absolute jokers

  22. Herb's Army

    With respect, I strongly disagree with your premise.
    Ferguson would have restructured Arsenal just like he did United, and our Youth Academy would have been completely over-hauled.
    If he’s capable of winning a major European Trophy with Aberdeen, he’d definitely have delivered for Arsenal.
    He is not cut from the same cloth as Wenger, Ferguson was a serial winner.

  23. China

    In the interview arsene accepted the circus around his future had contributed to the challenges on field.

    When asked for more clarification about his future, ‘now is not the time to talk about me’

    Loooooool

    Is he self aware?

  24. mano'gunner

    ‘We played since January in a very difficult environment for different reasons. That is very difficult for the players to cope with. There are some other reasons we will talk about another day. But the psychological environment for the group of the players was absolutely horrendous.’

    He’s pretty much insinuating it’s the fans and the protest. What happened to the mental strength he kept banging on about when the team is winning?
    Clubs like Real and Barca even Man U have fans that boo their own players too but their players get on with it and play better to win over the fans. They don’t even blame their ‘toxic’ fans for bad performances.
    This difference in mentality is what keeps Arsenal from the big boys.

    Your team played bad and didn’t perform because of personnel quality and tactical set up Arsene. Don’t make up excuses.

  25. Herb's Army

    Mick

    He tried to buy Tony Adams on numerous occasions. As for players bought in, he’d have bought his own.
    But after watching Wenger win the ‘Double’ (League and FA Cup) in 1998, he bettered it by doing the ‘Treble’ a year later. We had the chance to stop them too.
    We were in the driving seat, but lost at David O’Leary’s Leeds, which handed United the title, and Dennis Bergkamp missed a penalty at 0-0 during the FA Cup semi-final replay. It was Vieira who gave the ball away that sent Giggs on that run to smash the ball past Seaman.
    In his early years at Arsenal, Wenger out-smarted Fergie a couple of times, but in the main, Fergie had Wenger’s number, as the 8-2 in 2011 clearly shows.
    Fergie even thrashed George Graham’s Arsenal 6-2 in a League Cup game at Highbury in 1990-91, back when clubs still played their first-choice XI in all competitions.
    Three times Fergie’s United put six goals or more against Arsenal, two of them under Wenger’s watch.
    Fergie is without doubt one of the best managers Britain has ever produced.

  26. China

    No, we don’t know, because 1) it never happened and 2) the 1999 treble winning team was mostly built around developing exceptional youth talent and wasn’t cheap, but wasn’t astronomically assembled. 3) a grossly inferior manager in arsene almost won it with a defense in the cl usually consisting of eboue, senderos, toure (our only legit defender who played most of the cl campaign) and fucking flamini.

    If wenger can be 20 mins off winning the cl with that lot making most of the appearances then why wouldn’t fergie have a good chance?

    Fergie would’ve inherited our incredible defense. Yo really think he’d have no been able to assemble a serious attack as well?

    And at the end of the day fergie’s strength was his motivation and resilience. His team that won the cl last time round had loads of average losers. O’Shea, fletcher, Wes brown, even Anderson was probably there in that second cl winning team.

    Fergie got 20% extra out of his players and instilled a winning mentality – two things wenger doesn’t know much about. As well we have 200m cash sitting in the bank red and that’s after a summer where we just spend another 100m. Why on earth would fergie not be able to assemble a competitive squad with our resources?

  27. Redtruth

    It was 1-1 and Utd were down to 10 men when Bergkamp missed that penalty

    Fergie overrated and greatly helped by Utd’s wealth.

    The Champions league victory against Bayern was a disgrace and daylight robbery..

    Donkey Terry handed Fergie his second Champions league title…

  28. Herb's Army

    Winning makes money, and had Ferguson been in control at Arsenal he wouldn’t have wasted the £millions that Wenger has been allowed to toss away.
    As a club our profile would’ve been significantly higher, so money wouldn’t be an issue.
    Had Ferguson been allowed to take the Arsenal job I have no doubt that we would have the same spending power that United now have.

  29. rollen

    lol if only Ferguson didn’t pass on 20% of players Wanker did he would have cruised to silverware

  30. China

    Red if you think fergie is overrated I dunno what to say to you

    You don’t have to like the red nosed miserable cunt, but his ability as achievements are pretty staggering – and the consistency with which he delivered over such a long period was remarkable

  31. GuNZ

    Fuck it! I hear you! I am coming over there to fucking well take over. Wenger’s micro-chip has gone wrong. He’s broken. Bring back the Toy Maker.

  32. Herb's Army

    Mostly in football you make your own luck and being brave enough to go with your own convictions.
    Yes he was helped by United’s wealth, but look how many manager’s got it wrong between Busby retiring in 1970 and Ferguson’s appointment in 1986.
    And he inherited Ron Atkinson’s side, most of whom were garbage.
    He undertook the challenge of re-building the whole club and made it the giant it is today.
    It doesn’t matter, it’s all just conjecture.
    But I maintain, had it happened, Arsenal would be in much better health than they are under our specialist in failure.

  33. Redtruth

    Fergie’s Champions league record is poor considering the vast amount of money he spent..

    Domestically Utd always had a financial advantage over their rivals…

    You must dumb if you think.Fergie did not buy success..

  34. Herb's Army

    Apologies for the Arsenal-United semi-final, 0-0, 1-1, I knew we were level and in extra-time.
    I’ve smoked a few since then and sometimes the old memory isn’t up to scratch.
    It was nearly 20 years ago after all.

  35. Redtruth

    Champions league format guaranteed Fergie a crack at the competition every season unlike Clough who had to win the league to enter the competition..so not true comparison.so Clough vastly superior with vastly inferior resources to Man Utd….

  36. Redtruth

    It’s a daft statement because had Fergie taken charge at Arsenal their would have been no Bergkamp, Pires, Overmars, Petit, Vieira or Henry..

  37. Emiratesstroller

    As usual there is no-one in football that RT does not consider is shit.

    Now he lambasts the track record of Ferguson at Man Utd. This follows his
    earlier comment about Terry and of course his historic remarks frequently
    expressed that Messi is not world class.

    Frankly I think that Sky or BT should give you a job alongside the likes of
    Carragher, Souness and Meson. Your football analysis combined with hatred of Arsenal would fit in very well with them.

  38. Herb's Army

    Forest had far less games to play in their European Cup campaign, and their first success in 1979 was a 1-0 win over Malmo, scored by Trevor Francis, who Cloughie had made football’s first £1m transfer. He also paid a record fee at the time for a goalkeeper, when he bought Peter Shilton from Stoke in September 1977.
    It’s what managers do.
    Bill Shankly and Bob Paisley did the same for Liverpool.

  39. Jeff

    “I have said no to every club in the world”

    There’s a very good reason for that Arsene. It’s because you knew success at other clubs is not optional. You would have been out on your ear after at most a couple of seasons. But at Arsenal, all you had to do was get your customery 70 points, get top four, get the extra £40m for the annual humiliation in the CL and your job was safe as houses. Any twat who can’t see that is a delusional pea brain.

  40. Herb's Army

    Did United miss not having Bergkamp, Pires, Overmars, Petit, Vieira or Henry?
    No.
    Fergie found other players that collectively at club level – with the exception of Henry – went one step further than those players and claimed the holy grail. Henry had to leave Arsenal to achieve it.
    You could argue that collectively those players were exactly the level required to win the EPL, but they didn’t cut it at CL elite level.
    Fergie’s players did, and that’s the difference. His side that won it in 1999 wasn’t expensively assembled.

  41. Jeff

    I think had Ferguson managed the same Arsenal teams over the years he would have won a lot more than just 3 measly PLs. I don’t think anyone in the world of football is in any doubt about that. In fact, just about any other top manager would have done better than Wenger given the same teams.

    The reason Arsene won’t leave and manage other clubs is because he’s terrified of being exposed – that’s how plain and simple this situation is.

  42. Herb's Army

    We’re not discussing the merits or rights and wrongs of other club’s, you’re disputing Alex Ferguson’s managerial abilities and attributing it all to the massive financial advantage he had over others.
    His Aberdeen side were by far financially inferior to Celtic and Rangers when he broke up the ‘Old Firm’ dominance in the early 1980’s, as well as beating Real Madrid to win the Cup Winners’ Cup in 1983.
    He’d have radically transformed Arsenal.

  43. Jeff

    One minute he says the uncertainty did effect the team, then he says it didn’t because we won 7 out of last 8 game, then he says he will tell us why it affected the team one day but not today. It’s all make it up as you go along isn’t it?

  44. Herb's Army

    By the mid 1990’s Graham had lost his mojo and the football was turgid.
    Graham did remarkably well winning those titles in 1989 and 1991, and we played good football too, but bigger picture, Ferguson had taken on a huge project at United.
    But Graham didn’t radically transform Arsenal on anywhere near the same scale that Ferguson transformed United.
    The power-shift between the two started in 1992, and okay, Graham brought home a European trophy (the same one Ferguson had brought back three years earlier) in 1994, but United won the ‘Double’ that year.
    Within a year of that Graham was sacked, so not a true long-term adversary to Ferguson.

  45. China

    Red we get it everyone in the world is shit when it comes to football.

    Let’s stop humouring this and stop taking the troll bait boys…

  46. China

    Even the idea of buying the league is short sighted

    Wenger spent 100m on players last summer and that translated into about 3 more points this season.

    Other clubs like real have thrown joke money around and won not a lot for periods even of some of their recent history

    There’s more to success than just who spent the most last summer. That’s the point red.

    You could hand wenger 300m of players tomorrow and we wouldn’t win the league next year.

  47. Jeff

    A winning team comprises of a combination of factors. Good players – i.e. expensive players – of course is one of them but that’s not the only factor. A winning mentality is very important. Ambition is very important. Tactical knowledge and the ability to adapt and change as necessary to affect different games, different opponents – all that is also very important. What Arsene has done recently is change just one of those things which is to spend more than usual and buy a couple of world class players. But it hasn’t done us much good. The other factors have been missing and they can only be fixed with a new manager. In how many ways can we say this – it is so obvious.

  48. China

    Talking of vast resources, the galacticos didn’t win many trophies despite having probably the most expensively assembled squad ever and competing in a league that was mostly pretty poor

    Spend the most = success is a far too simplistic way of looking at it

    At the end of the day it’s generally the best clubs which spend the most. They also have the best managers, so of course they’re more likely to win

    Whether utd spent more money than other clubs or not they’d have still likely won more because they had a better manager, a bigger stadium, great infrastructure and a top end pedigree and the prestige that comes with it

    The same way that some years much lower teams have spent more than Arsenal but we still finish with twice as many points. The infrastructure and size of the club is more important than just the number of pounds changing hands in the summer

  49. China

    Even if you capped all the spending as equal across the whole league, only a handful of teams would have won the league in this time period because regardless of transfer fees, some clubs can far more easily attract talent than others.

    Top young talents choosing between playing under fergie at a 73,000 seater stadium or under Steve Bruce in some northern backwater (no offense lol) in front of 25,000. It’s an easy choice

    Sure the biggest teams spend the most, but they’d be bigger and better regardless of spending most of the time

    How else did Arsenal manage to spend so little from 2000-2013 without ever dropping away from the top end of the PL? Bigger club than almost all the others in the pl. better stadium. More prestigious. Etc.

    It wasn’t because of how much we spent. That much is clear

  50. Thank you and goodnight

    The specialist in failure continues to treat the fans with disdain and yet still you have sad cunts like pires87 who would gladly chew on wenger’s cock if he wanted them to. I cannot wait for him to go or CROAK so you plastic Arsene fans can fuck off with him. You cunts have turned this club into a laughing stock and I for one would gladly take a baseball bar to all you sad loony akb window lickers

  51. Pierre

    Jeff
    “I think had Ferguson managed the same Arsenal teams over the years he would have won a lot more than just 3 measly league titles ”

    Though I do agree that ferguson would have won more titles, I think to say” 3 measly titles ” is a stupid comment as during the last 38 years only man u and Chelsea have won more…..

    Also won 6 measly FA cups which is a total of 9 trophies (could be 10 by next week)….. Add about 5/6 runners up in the league, 2 runners up in Europe and 2 runners-up in league cup and 1 runner up in FA cup and the record of
    20 times Winners or runners-up during his time doesn’t look quite so bad does it…

    And he has done that despite being tactically inept, having no leaders in the team, crap defence blah blah blah…. It doesn’t say a lot for the rest does it…

  52. TitsMcGee

    The irony regarding Fergie is that he basically said in his book that Wenger was the easiest manager to gameplan against.

  53. china

    pierre you’re right, it doesn’t say a lot for the rest

    the rest aren’t up to much, that much is clear.

    look at most of the league, outside the top 8 or so it drops off from strong to really average/pretty poor very quickly.

    and if you look at the period of wenger’s glory days it was even weaker. i don’t say that as an insult or to undermine his early years achievements because they were brilliant, but looking back at the PL from wenger’s early years, it was totally lop-sided with just 2-3 really high quality teams really. the rest were pretty shite if we’re being honest

    wenger has brought competitiveness in the fa cup back in the last few years, but again the cup has blatantly devalued in importance in the last 10 years since his earlier successes.

    so what we’re looking at is wenger competing in a time when he was in pretty much a two horse race for the league. then wenger competes again in the cup at a time when its been devalued.

    in that context the numbers are far less inspiring

  54. Jeff

    Pierre,

    What is stupid is to hide behind implicit excuses for Wenger even at this stage when it’s clear to anyone with a modicum of sense that the game of excuse making is well and truly over.

  55. TitsMcGee

    And he has done that despite being tactically inept, having no leaders in the team, crap defence blah blah blah…. It doesn’t say a lot for the rest does it…’

    How many has he won in the last 13 seasons?

    How many UCL’s has he won?

    I’ll wait.

  56. Jeff

    Tits,

    You can lead a horse to water but can you make him drink? Some people still believe that Wenger is a top manager and it’s only “circumstances” that stopped us winning big things. They just cannot understand how or why Wenger is simply inept and they point to the 3 PL wins and the FA cups as testament forgetting that during those 3 PL wins he had arguably the best squad in Europe. Of course you’re right, he should have won more with that team, he should have won the CL. But he didn’t. He bottled it. Then of course Dein left, the invincibles were disbanded, Wenger became all powerful and for the last 13 years proceeded to let Arsenal drift in a sea of mediocrity and ineptitude. But some can’t see it. They just cannot see it.

  57. jasongms

    @Tits

    don’t hold your breath mate…..

    The level of duplicity on basing your argument on a league title that took place 13 years ago … the fuck man!

  58. Pierre

    Just making a point that his record during his time at arsenal is impressive although obviously lop sided by his success in the first ten years…. And I will repeat again that if we beat Chelsea on Saturday, it will be 3 trophies in the last 4 years….which no other team in the league can beat …..

    And yes, I really do think it’s time for the manager to leave as the club is not progressing, we are not competing for the league or Europe… Being in the Europa cup is probably the best thing that could happen to the club… If/when a new manager comes in it gives them breathing space to try out fringe players in Europe whilst keeping the first team fresh for the league……

  59. Pierre

    China
    “wenger has brought competitiveness in the fa cup back in the last few years, but again the cup has blatantly devalued in importance in the last 10 years since his earlier successes.”

    That doesn’t mean that any club wouldn’t want to win it….. Ask any supporter of Liverpool, spurs even man city if they would want to win it, of course they would

    Its only the anti Wenger brigade who don’t consider it a trophy because they can’t stand Wenger achieving success as it may extend his time at the arsenal…. Sorry but I am not of that ilk… I love watching arsenal winning in cup finals and seeing them lift trophies…

  60. Redtruth

    China
    “Sure the biggest teams spend the most, but they’d be bigger and better regardless of spending most of the time”

    Utter bullshit, explain Chelsea …..?