Arsenal fans disgrace themselves | Wenger stops the rot, but the battle is still uphill

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Arsenal and Manchester City played out a bit of a mad game at The Emirates, one which showed why Arsenal will never progress under Wenger, and one that shows Pep has a lot to learn about the Premier League before he can truly compete in the way he did with Bayern and Barca.

The game lacked a defensive brain. Arsenal lacked any sort of shape or vision of how we wanted to play. What we did show is that at a very basic level, when we fancy it, there is a bit of fight buried in our guts somewhere. I mean, kind of  a given for a £200m a year squad.

Again though, we keep coming back to this. Manchester City came to our ground, played to our rules, and we gave them at least half an attempt at winning. Most of the elite teams in Europe won’t play that naively. Most of them will shut up shop when they nick a goal after 5minutes, or, as we’ve seen of late, many will carry on and rout us.

Arsene will be pleased with the point, it allows him to fight another day and it gives him the narrative that he’s in the mixer for the top 4 and an FA Cup so everything is ok. That didn’t inspire me to think he has anything under control. Our defence is a car crash, looking even worse after Koscielny left the pitch around the midway point for the third time in a month. Bellerin lacks discipline, consistently leaving himself open because he’s using pace as his shield, not his brain. Mustafi continues to look a dud, despite coming to the rescue for two of our goals with a hard fought assist for Theo and a brave header for the second.

As for our midfield, have we ever boasted such a mess? The hipster tweeters out there will spit there slow roasted Hornsey Road basement grown coffee out, but my word, Xhaka looks different level bad. He’s clearly not geared for an Arsene Wenger ‘do what you like’ philosophy and we see the output of that decline every week. His gungho tackles and inability to marshal a shape make him look like an expensive weak link.

As for Coquelin, the man is comedic in how reckless he is. Not just that, watching him on the ball is a tragicom in itself. How can a manager who has overseen players like Gilberto, Petit and Cesc look at the Frenchman with anything outside disgust? Back in the day, in the Church of Tika-Taka, he’d have gone up in flames entering the premises.

Mesut needs a stern talking to again. He loses the ball for their second goal and lets everything play out in front of him like he’s just been asked to take a DVD back to Blockbuster, defending looked like one massive inconvenience. Did Danny manage more than one shot all game? Alexis at least had a go in a weak frontline, but he’s so badly managed he tries to do it all himself. Theo Walcott pops up with a goal, not much else, he’s really not an elite level player. Everton at best.

Credit where credit is due, David Ospina did make some very tidy saves. Hard to cut through the drama he brings to even the most basic of catches, but he got down low a couple of times and did a good job. I mean, bar the Aguerro goal that really shouldn’t have beat him, but this is Arsenal keeping, so we need to be fair.

Anyway, the rot has finally stopped eating away at us. But we still have a mammoth chance. To be honest, my fears weren’t really about City, I’m more focused on the games that we’ll play at Crystal Palace, Leicester, Spurs and United. Those all feel like dropped points… and I really don’t think the performance yesterday gives me any vibes that the squad are in this together.

Watching Alexis frantically beckon players for the muted goal celebrations was worrying. This was Manchester City, where was the excitement?

Something is desperately wrong at the club, and it all centres around one man’s greed. Also, I took at lot of criticism for saying Wenger had a fear of death, which is why he’ll selfishly keep taking deals until he’s told not to. The main man came out and said exactly that the other day, how awful the club would indulge an old man’s mortality insecurities over the success of the club.

I don’t want to drill too harpost-match post match nonsense that occurred outside the ground. But I’ll say this, I think it’s pretty embarrasssing that reality TV has seeped into the post match ritual, this isn’t kids running to say something on a camera after the game, it’s grown fucking men. Grow up. What happened to discussing your views with your mates at a pub? Unreal desperation for a bit of attention.

Secondly, the idea of being so angry about something that you’re willing to disgrace the badge of the club by fighting on the said camera after the game beggars belief. You don’t ever fight your fellow fans. I have a deep dislike of what Wenger has become, but sit me in a bar next to somebody with a Wenger tattoo on his face and I’ll be having a craic in no time. This is football. It’s supposed to be a joy even when it’s not. In fact, one of the things I miss about London is the shared emotion after a game, joy or happiness.

What also left a foul taste in the mouth was this all happened on Rocky Rocastle day, to see fans fighting in the stands and outside the ground, just disgusted me.

Victoria concordia crescit. Victory through harmony. Where is the love?

I don’t want to give thugs any sort of politicised mitigating circumstances, because it’s not down to the club to make grown men behave. But someone has to be looking at this mess in the stands. That mini riot could have caused a stampede and injured a child. This isn’t fun anymore. The baord should take note and certainly beef up security after the game if that carry on is happening around families.

Unreal.

Anyway, more on that when we record the next podcast.

See you in the comments.

289 Responses to “Arsenal fans disgrace themselves | Wenger stops the rot, but the battle is still uphill”

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  1. Bankz

    Ofcourse the plan is to break your record and go into retirement like The undertaker.
    Something Wenger has refused to do

  2. Bankz

    Pedro you don’t tell grown up fans how to react to the comedy show that Arsenal has become.
    I won’t ever fight over a football related issue but I know quite a few who would.
    Am I better than them?i think not.
    It’s just a difference of how we handle our football emotions or how emotionally disciplined we are over football.

    Am I confining violence in the name of “Wenger out” or “Wenger in”? No I am not.
    I’m just saying adults will always have a different way of expressing themselves in football related issues.

  3. DM

    “I won’t ever fight over a football related issue but I know quite a few who would.
    Am I better than them?i think not.”

    Yes, yes you are.

  4. Boomslang

    Blame Wengy for the toxic atmosphere. For how long will the club suffer the ignominy of being an old man’s play thing. The situation at the club is unsustainable.

    Talk of Wengy’s reinvention is simply an attempt to deflect blame onto others, and mask 13 years of stagnation and failure.

    The same person who oversaw a decade of regression is to be tasked with taking the club to the “next level”? That’s like giving a child a loaded gun to play with.

    Only at Arsenal.

  5. guernsey gun

    Agreed Pedro there is no need for people to come to blows- one of the videos I saw on twitter yesterday clearly showed a pair inside the ground who had clearly been on the sauce all day but that’s no excuse. Really it all sums up what a mess we are as a club, off the field as much as on it. There is only one logical solution but we seem incapable of making it.

  6. Thank you and goodnight

    It’s because of stupid cunting r3tard3d fans like that, that I’ve gone off Arsenal. Those cunts have got the manager and owner they deserve and in years to come when these cunts start to moan after the 20th year of no titles under Wenger please feel free to knife those cunts in the face. Stupid know nothing cunts

  7. Park Chu-young's left testicle

    Difficult one. I would like to think that I wouldn’t fight over football but if someone punched me because of my football views I’d certainly have no problem punching them back.

  8. Budhaa

    Pedro, why are you berating the fans?fighting or not..Their actions are sending a message out n I’m lapping it up..anything and everything to get the bugger out of our club will do for now…keep fighting mates!!!

  9. WestLondonGoon

    Remembering Rocky? Someone should have told the club; absolutely zero mention of him in yesterday’s programme. His name/image is on the stadium FFS! A head needs to roll for that.

    As far as the protest, reports say 1000 so I’ll go with that, but good to see a few old faces showing up from the GG awaydays era. The mood was light-hearted but determined. There were some (very angry) AKBs who tried to provoke a situation on more than one occasion, but luckily no one reacted to the provocation. Ahhhh those AKB guys….they really should find a nice hobby to relieve themselves of all that pent up aggression.

    So from reports of 100 for the first protest, we are now into 1000+, so at least that’s moving in the right direction; and we arent going to just stop, the club needs to hear what we have to say.

    Anyone coming to Whammers, message @NoNewContract if you are interested in joining the in-stadium protest.

  10. Guns of Hackney

    Peter obviously wasn’t able to follow Arsenal in the 1980’s but violence in general doesn’t really discriminate, least of all mass fights at a football match. As a young boy both in the West Stand and latter, the Top Side…there were always scuffles breaking out around women/children and youths. Let’s not get carried away with a couple of fatties wrestling about.

    I’m not defending it as it all appears to be a waste of time…but it does highlight just how shit our club has become. Any bad press that these morons can generate will be good for the OUT fans.

    On another subject regarding the ex players defending Wenger…it’s worth noting that the ones who support him all left and won things…I don’t hear about Denilson, Jeffers, Park, Santos, Scuillachi, Miyachi, Stepanovs saying much. Think about that.

  11. Vintage Gun

    “What also left a foul taste in the mouth was this all happened on Rocky Rocastle day, to see fans fighting in the stands and outside the ground, just disgusted me”

    Spot on Pedro. Saying that those stadium/street fighters probably didn’t have a clue it was Rocky Rocastle day as it’s not as if the club paid any acknowledgement in the pre-match programs.

    Classless, low values and a disgrace to our traditions. Both the fighting fans and the manager/Board

  12. Steveyg87

    Weird atmosphere yesterday, almost like we are trapped in some sort of bubble.. Something has to give, players aren’t up for it anymore and we were let off by a really poor City team. How badly does Bellerin suck these days? Almost as much as Xhaka, our team is completely devoid of spirit. How the hell did we get to this point?

  13. Guns of Hackney

    As we all know by now, The Weng Man is signing on, so it begs the question, what exactly do we do now?

    1. No champions league money. Will Arsenal increase ticket prices to offset this? Seeing how there is a price freeze…this one will be hard to pass.
    2. With the dirge Arsenal are churning out…will anyone pay £2000 to watch Xhaka and Coq stink the place up?
    3. After we lose the man who single handily has kept us in the top four and supplied or scored 60% of our goals…who steps up?
    4. Who wants to come to Arsenal anymore when they have United, City, Chelsea, Liverpool and Spurs to choose from?
    5. Will Arsenal’s sponsors start pulling plugs?

    Thoughts.

  14. Jay

    The fighting reminded me of Alan Partidge’s pitch to a BBC exec for a new series :
    “Inner City Sumo! It’s basically two fat blokes fighting in a pub car park. It’d be really cheap to make…”
    Thanks Kim Jong Weng for turning our supporters into the butt of an Alan Partridge sketch.

  15. TitsMcGee

    This notion that we are going to clean out the coaching staff to surround Wenger with a new crew just reeks of more “it’s not Wenger’s fault” .

    He’s the common denominator. You leave the common denominator in place and everything crumbles the same way. Also what makes anyone think Wenger will just start taking advice all of a sudden.

    Glad to hear the protests got such a turnout. The situation “should ” be untenable and will only lead to more toxic days like yesterday if this shiiite continues.

  16. jwl

    TitsMcGee –

    I think it was Friday morning, a few days ago, on Sky Sports where Wenger said there was no problem with system, it was the players who were the problem. Of course, Wenger doesn’t say who acquired, or developed, these inadequate players that are failing him.

    Pure spin coming from Arsenal about how Wenger going to change in summer, old dogs are famous for learning new tricks, or at least they are at Arsenal.

  17. Guns of Hackney

    Why doesn’t Usmanov test the board with an offer? I know he doesn’t have a say on how the club is run, but surely he could put in a cheeky £1,000,000,000 bid.

    Having said that, he has publicly stated he likes Arsene…

    OPEN NOTE TO ANY BILLIONAIRES. PLEASE BUY MY CLUB.

  18. SpanishDave

    The board and Stan have a cunning plan.
    Dress up a few changes of personnel, maybe a new tea lady, then give him a ‘war chest’ of 50 m. Then sell Sanogoal or give him a sex change so he can play for the ladies.
    Change Bould for a mannequin .
    Give Kim Wenger another two years to reinvent himself as a lovable old grandad.
    Only at Arsenal do we embrace failure.
    Meanwhile Stan looks at the bottom line and can’t see a problem.

  19. Red&White4life

    “OPEN NOTE TO ANY BILLIONAIRES. PLEASE BUY MY CLUB.”

    I’m in, I just won the lottery!! lol

  20. Micheal

    Guns
    Why doesn’t Usmanov test the board with an offer? I know he doesn’t have a say on how the club is run, but surely he could put in a cheeky £1,000,000,000 bid.
    ===========

    Because he will be able to pick it up even cheaper if the current shit-storm continues.

  21. Guns of Hackney

    Michael

    You’ve just given me a thought…

    What if Usmanov has slowly been poisoning Wenger’s brain with a special Russian toxin? He makes Wenger go mad…the club starts to implode…Stan sells…Usmanov comes in!!!

    Holy shit. That’s it, isn’t it????

  22. Micheal

    Guns:
    You’ve just given me a thought…

    What if Usmanov has slowly been poisoning Wenger’s brain with a special Russian toxin? He makes Wenger go mad…the club starts to implode…Stan sells…Usmanov comes in!!!

    Holy shit. That’s it, isn’t it????
    =============

    If you want to drive the price down, make sure that Wenger, Gazidis and that American cunt stay in place. Give ’em contracts for life ! The value can only go one way !

  23. jwl

    Moyes made his life significantly worse with his threat to slap woman reporter, what a stupid thing to say. I wonder if Moyes threatens males as well but we don’t hear about it?

    Anyways, if Brit women make a big deal out of Moyes comment, he could be out of job in a week or two.

  24. Gary

    “What happened to discussing your views with your mates at a pub? Unreal desperation for a bit of attention.”

    3/29
    “For the protestors out there, the crew are meeting at 2:50 on Sunday… Turn up if you care about Arsenal.”

  25. WestLondonGoon

    Gary

    Are you suggesting that protesters are doing it for a bit of attention? I wasn’t aware that anyone was publishing a list of attendees.

    Is Wenger prolonging this not just his way of demanding attention?

  26. Gary

    Isn’t that what a protest is…to bring public attention to an issue or cause? Whether it’s well behaved or not, neither is a credit to the club or it’s fans…As Pedro states, “What happened to discussing g your views with mates at the pub?”

  27. WestLondonGoon

    We are bring attention to the fact that not everyone is happy with what is going on at the club, especially in terms of the manager. We aren’t looking to promote ourselves, and yes, we do still go to the pub and talk about the game rather than go looking to share it with everyone via fan tv. I hope that was the point Pedro was trying to make.

    The trouble kicked off yesterday because a handful of people, rightly or wrongly, accused Arsenal TV and their ‘stars’ of trying to profit out of the plight of the club.

    To be honest, no one came out of it well, but I can see what they were getting at. It involved no one from the protesting group.

  28. Gary

    Fair enough. But, from someone watching from afar (US), it’s all embarrassing really…Idiots yelling, peaceful protests, flyover banners.

  29. WestLondonGoon

    You wouldn’t believe it over here, Gary. So many want Wenger to go at the end of season and expected an announcement around the close oof the last transfer window to say just that. We would all have got behind him, and have given him a proper send off, hopefully the players as well, but what has happened in the last couple of months has been so disorganised at board and management level that the club just looks ridiculous.

    To have them preaching about Arsenal traditions when most of us have been involved with the club for longer than they have, is just disrespectful. I’d love to know what these traditions are supposed to be now as this certainly isn’t the club that I used to know. The non reference of Rocky’s passing in yesterday’s programe showed the club in a very bad light, especially to those of us who watched him and admired his attachment to the club, and importantly the fans too.

    We used to be known as the Bank of England club but now it seems more like a bank in England (for Kroenke) club.

  30. B.T

    Honestly what is embarrasing is an owner and board who obviously gives zero shits about our club and our fans fighting.

  31. Alan

    Fantastic article.

    Totally agree about the fans. The ArsenalFanTV has turned supporters into celebrities. You have time live blogging during a game and they wonder why the atmosphere is so poor.

    After showing zero passion during the game, they then go outside and rant and rave like lunatics. Has to be the worst dynamic of support.

    As for the players, both sides didn’t display any passion at all. It’s almost like they did just about enough to entertain the crowd without any thought about the points.

  32. Rhys Jaggar

    GoH

    I cannot see top talent coming to Arsenal if it is same-old, same-old. A few hookers may arrive, but top passionate talent? Less likely.

    More likely is a glorified Southampton model where Arsenal becomes a showcase for those aspiring to Champions League and buggering off after a good season or two.

    However, you only have to look at Spurs and Liverpool to see how to get into top 4: good coaches, high tempo, everyone knowing their job, non-performers being dropped.

    As for players not celebrating, says something fundamental has happened. Maybe Theo is saying ‘you want to me to fuck off, all you fans, why should I celebrate with you?’ Maybe a few rounds of ‘Fuck off!’ ‘No YOU fuck off!’ went on in the changing rooms at Colney?

    Who knows.

    But I do know from experience that if you did not grow up sticking two fingers up at the world, then there is only so many years of ritual abuse you can take before your high performance Churchillian salutes turn into: ‘why should I care about these cunts any more?’

    It is like the American propaganda machine: you zone out of the nonsense after a while, since the most murderous nation since 1945 does not respond to argument, after all….

  33. kc

    This joke of a football club has created this atmosphere and division amongst fans. I don’t blame the players, nor do I blame the fans for the way they’ve been forced to act. Telling someone how they should react to anything is naive anyways. I do find it oddly interesting that some fans care this much about a club that rips them off and laughs all the way to the bank daily. They don’t care about you, why do you care so much about them??

  34. Relieable Sauce

    Has Chairman Meh signed da ting yet ?

    Hmm…AKBs trying to provoke violence because they’re so but hurt….Sounds familiar.

  35. Samir

    Rumors have it Chips and Ivan Gazidis want a new manager but Stan does not agree. Josh however agrees with Ivan and Chips.

  36. Igbo Amadi-Obi

    I agree there was something to the goal celebrations, particularly Walcott’s. There was absolutely no emotion on Koscielny’s face as Walcott moved towards him. Then he seemed to realise there were cameras about, and gave Walcott the most perfunctory pat on the head. Isnt that our captain these days? Even Walcott himself didnt look that excited.

  37. PieAFC

    Did I watch the a game. No.

    Did I care. No.

    Do I care, really really deep down care like yester years. The answer is no.

    Woke up from a heavy weekend, and decided to do other things knowing the game was at the back of mind and totally missed it.

    And you know what. Best the fact we drawed didn’t lose. Completely ignoring all things Arsenal felt easier than I would of liked it to have been. No anger or being pissed over something out of my control.

    Look’s like deep down something’s changed.

    Which hurts the most.

    Season seems a write off to me.

    Hopefully get a ticket for them boys away.

    Ps – people that film any slight scrap, sign of a bit of handbags at dawn, reaching for their camera’s at any given chance. They are just as bad. Do my head in. Fucking social media world we live in.

  38. BacaryisGod

    It’s strange. I still have a huge amount of admiration for Wenger but his situation is similar to that of a Prime Minister who has just become so insulated that he doesn’t realize how deep the malaise and rot have set in. He also doesn’t know that he’s the root cause of the problem so he can’t be the one to fix it.

    At the same time, I do realize how bizarre it is that all the focus is on him when Man United and Man City have spent far more than we have and face similar problems with arguably two of the most sought after managers in the world. They’ve also bought underachieving monster buys this summer and far more than us in previous ones.

    I have to admit that at the start of the season I thought we had bought well in Xhaka, Mustafi and Lucas and that we were poised for a deep run at the title. Unlike previous seasons, there just didn’t look to be too many areas of concern.
    This probably reflects a lot of fans’ expectations and partly explains why there is so much frustration in the fan base.

    We all know how this will play out. Alexis will be sold in the summer whether Arsene stays or goes. Probably the majority of fans would be happy to let Ozil go for 25 million in the summer if the alternative is a bumper pay increase for an inconsistent superstar.

    Man United don’t have to have the Champions League to bring top players in because they pay the huge salaries. We need to make top 4 because we’ve as cautious off the field as we are reckless on it.

    To me, there’s only one solution to changing the dynamic and that’s signing two or three exciting players early in the window. Let’s face it, that’s simply not going to happen.

    My gut tells me that despite the gossip, I actually think Arsene is not going to renew his deal. I hope for everyone’s sake that we can pull off a final F.A Cup win for him and allow him to leave with some dignity intact.

  39. Cesc Appeal

    Decent interview with Souness and Henry, though they do rather skirt the central issue, the reason Arsenal have no leaders and are totally reliant on Sanchez is because of the manager, though I suppose that would not make for a great interview, though it would be more accurate.

    The presenter hinted at it but then backed off from it, saying ‘is it a choice to not have those types of players in the dressing room.’ You only have to look at the smear job coming out of Arsenal on Sanchez for being a winner, a leader type player to realise that is precisely the reason, Wenger does not want the type of player who is going to show dissatisfaction with his work, or question is outdated practices, or put one of his babies up the wall.

    Basically you’ve got Sanchez at Arsenal and the rest are gigantic wet pussies, and yet we’re watching a total smear campaign on that one actual world class, hungry, leader type player.

    I really think now never mind all this ‘Wenger has to go before he hurts his legacy,’ when he does go I think his legacy will be hurt even more when we realise how much damage he was doing trying to hold onto to unchallenged power and stick to his dated, ridiculous principles.

  40. Redtruth

    TheGuardian
    N. Andrews
    Wednesday 20 May 2015 10.23

    David Ospina has a bit of an image problem. He has won almost 50 international caps with Colombia but some people remain unconvinced by the Arsenal goalkeeper and question his suitability for the cut-and-thrust of English football. According to the Mirror, the reason for this lack of conviction is because Ospina is “a few inches shorter than a top keeper should be”.

    It is a view shared by Goal.com, who highlighted the keeper’s apparent lack of height as an “obvious point of concern” when he joined the club last summer. Bizarrely they went on to argue that this “potential flaw in his make-up” was more likely to be exposed in the Premier League than in France, as if to suggest that goals in England were somehow bigger than on the continent.

    Neither writer mentioned what the requisite measurement should be for a top goalkeeper but perhaps they were thinking about Joe Hart and Fraser Forster rather than Peter Shilton and Ray Clemence who, like Ospina, stand a respectable six feet tall.

    Compared to his English contemporaries, the Colombian is clearly a tad on the small side, but that does not necessarily make him a bad goalkeeper.

    Yet the Express showed surprise that he had managed to keep three clean sheets in his first six league appearances despite his lack of stature. One wonders what they would have made of Peter Bonetti, who at 5ft 10in would probably be considered too small to play outfield, let alone in goal, but was once considered among the best keepers in the world during a successful period for English football.

    In past decades, exceptionally tall goalkeepers in England’s top flight were the exception rather than the norm. Their heights were often a lazy talking point for commentators and journalists alike, with players such as Joe Corrigan and Dave Beasant, who were both over 6ft 4in, being saddled with unimaginative nicknames such as “Big Joe” or “Lurch”.

    Yet while some view Ospina’s lack of inches as a negative, their superior height advantage was not necessarily seen as a positive, and neither managed to displace Shilton as England No1.

    The only time Shilton’s lack of height was brought into question was in the aftermath of the 1990 World Cup semi-final shootout, when he went the right way on each kick but failed to stop any of West Germany’s penalties. Some said that Beasant should have been brought on by Bobby Robson to face the spot-kicks, ignoring the fact that he wasn’t even listed among the substitutes.

    But the Derby County goalkeeper didn’t have a particularly good record at saving penalties anyway and managed only one in his entire international career, against Andreas Brehme in 1985.

    Timing rather than height was probably more to blame, especially when you consider the record for the most penalty saves in a season is still held by the relatively diminutive Paul Cooper of Ipswich Town, who stopped eight out of 10 penalties during the 1979-80 season, despite being only 5ft 11in.

    Forster has yet to face a penalty while on international duty but at 6ft 7in he holds the record for being the tallest goalkeeper to play for England.

    Mexico certainly had no qualms about fielding Campos (who was a few inches smaller than his official statistics suggested, at 5ft 6in rather than 5ft 9in) in two consecutive World Cup campaigns and there appears to be less concern over a goalkeeper’s height

    Spain enjoyed a period of unprecedented dominance with a first-choice pairing of Iker Casillas and Víctor Valdés, both of whom are six foot despite Casillas’s claims to be taller. Last year Costa Rica, Mexico, Honduras and Cameroon all selected keepers that were the same height as Bonetti, while Ospina reached the quarter-finals with Colombia.

    But the Mirror is still adamant that Ospina’s “lack of height leaves him susceptible to certain bits of genius” and posted footage of him being chipped by Dimitar Berbatov to support their claim. Perhaps someone should point out that being 6ft 4in didn’t stop David Seaman from being chipped from 40 yards, and remind them that size isn’t everyt

  41. London gunner

    Neymar and messi get a lot of love and rightly so, but fuck me sideways Suarez is such a great player.

    Complete forward beat in the world his performance the other day was incredible

  42. jwl

    “Rhys Jaggar – More likely is a glorified Southampton model …. ”

    I wish Arsenal were using Soton model – produce home grown players that stay at club or get massive transfer fees and then buy players to fill gaps. Top quality managers who have idea how to make squad play their best. Saints have been punching above their weight for past five to eight years.

  43. David Smith

    So,,if online gooner, and countless rumours I for one have heard, there may possibly be a boardroom battle going on. Maybe some, like Ivan and Sir Chips are not happy staying on, and if these rumours are to be believe could even resign over it. But it seems Stan is adamant the fraud stays….wonder why.
    Who knows, maybe brave of Ivan to make those comments on the q and a session, could get him fired, but think he would get a payoff and another job pretty quickly.
    If there is ANY truth in this, can only see three options
    1/. Wenger knows what he is up against and walks, but can only see that if he has another offer on the table
    2/ Stan realises the need for compromise, Wenger stays, but as some reports suggest, some,of his power, and backroom staff are taken away and replaced by more credible personalities…..just cannot see Wenger accepting this
    3/ maybe Ivan has tried to get him out of limit his power, but Wenger goes squealing to Stan , he stays on , nothing changes, in effect, given a job for life. Ivan and Chipps resign and let the world know why. It is up to Wenger and Ken friar to handle replacements for the nine players they lose this summer, we know how that goes. The team go into even further free fall, most of the Wenger loyalists turn , the ground becomes even more toxic than it is already as the naive wake up to the fact the club is run by an old has been that cannot let go, and an absentee owner who doesn’t care.
    Option three is the most likely, this will finally unite the fanbase except a few deluded and some tourists. The crowd will turn on Wenger and Stan….but only one of them will be around…..Wenger faces the hate of tens of thousands every game. Not nice for anyone , but no less than he will deserve IF he stays.
    But, with option three, just a chance Wenger and Stan can be forced out , as the reaction will be so drastic

  44. jwl

    David Smith

    I am trying to convince myself Kroenke has told Wenger that he has to finish top four or new manager brought in to spend all money Wenger has saved. Last contract and this next one, Wenger did not sign until after season, why wait if job guaranteed?

    Perhaps Wenger has been told he has to finish top to keep his job, we are sixth now and it will be battle to get to fourth, and that why he not renewed his contract yet.

    Better to announce Wenger is staying last autumn while Arsenal were playing ok, why wait until end of season if he’s staying because our seasons have gone tits up after christmas for past decade.

  45. StopTheWengerSpin

    “Meanwhile Stan looks at the bottom line and can’t see a problem.”

    There my friend you have summarised the actual root cause of the problem.

    Wenger is a symptom. A greedy, misguided, delusional, increasingly dated and irrelevant one. But a symptom nonetheless.

    I am 100% in the WOB but the stench that pervades this Club will not go even if he does. The guy that pulls all the strings – by checking the cash and doing nothing except leech from the coffers when he can – doesn’t give a shit about winning.

    Do I know SK ? No. But I can look at the EVIDENCE of every other sports franchise he owns and it supplies everything I need to support my assertion.

  46. Alexanderhenry

    David Smith

    I’m not even sure wenger will sign, and if he does it will only get worse for him next season.
    Banner waving, booing, punch ups; all these things do have an effect on players and if it’s happening every week- all the signs are that it will- it becomes impossible for a manager to continue.

    I don’t see a way in which wenger can press the reset button . He won’t be able to begin next season in a composed fashion.

    Despite the usual infuriating and arrogant reticence from the BOD, one thing is certain:

    Kroenke wants him to stay.

    He kept arsenal top four for six or seven seasons with no money, instead actually making large profits in transfers during that period.

    For kroenke that makes wenger absolute gold. It’s allowed our awful owner to do nothing, say nothing, spend nothing while doubling the share price and ensuring the fans pay off the stadium debt for him.

    Stan loves wenger and even if he quits, he’ll be looking for a replacement who can do exactly the same thing.

  47. David Smith

    Can only agree with every word you say Alexander Henry.
    It is a sad situation, Wenger was a great manager, and a decent manager even in recent years, but stans indulgence has meant he has become isolated, perhaps complacent, stale.
    If I were granted a choice to be rid of one of them, as much as I don’t rate what Wenger has become, I would be rid of Kroenke every time.
    He is a serial ruined of clubs, and Wenger is his most high profile victim, sadly, there was nobody who could tell Wenger what he was sleepwalking into . Tragic

  48. David Smith

    But I hope you are right that Wenger comes to his senses on this one, for a number of reasons.
    But think it will take a PSG or France level offer.
    Who knows, with a fresh environment, under a bit of pressure and accountability, with a Dein like figure, he might even succeed at some other club again, but it won’t happen here.

  49. Ishola70

    Unbelievable that still some want to deflect from Wenger.

    If Wenger had got some teams together in the last decade that could defend then the club would not find themselves where they are at this time. They kept treading water, they kept just staying on the tightrope of top four. The club were always going to fall off that tightrope rather than get to the other end of it for real success. How difficult is it to try to focus on getting a team together that doesn’t ship goals? Is the fanbase to blame? Is the whole environment of the club not allowable for getting teams that can defend? Is many fans notion of how Arsenal should play a hindrance?

    This crying about Kroenke. Yes he is not a good owner but people blub about him like he is doing a sneak here. All this talk about him not spending money. He was brought into the club because he was seen as hands off. He was brought in because Arsenal wanted to be the opposite to Chelsea. The majority of the fanbase was anti-Usmanov when Kroenke got in. People have such short memories. Most of the fanbase were for an ideology that they all knew they were walking into and now because it looks like it has gone tits up they want to blame an owner who is only in his position because of this ideology.

    Kroenke has taken Arsenal for a ride here and only has his selfish reasons but many should remember how he got into the position in the first place.

  50. Ishola70

    Bamford10:
    “Pretty sure the video shows that it was AKBs who started the trouble on Sunday. This matters.”

    They always do. They spit feathers.

    There was a video a few weeks back that was more disturbing than this handbags stuff on Sunday and it didn’t even entail physical violence.

    It was two AKBs going absolutely mental frothing at the mouth cussing some protesters inside the ground. No physical violence but as said more disturbing in how maniacal they looked.

  51. steve

    @David Smith

    Wenger was never a great manager. He was a good one at best. If he was a great manager he would have at least one trophy out in Europe and he would have defended at least a league title. Getting rid of Kroenke before Wenger. Fucking hell… *smh*

  52. Bamford10

    Ishola

    It’s because Wenger is a religion of sorts to them and because their approach to Arsenal is faith-based, uncritical and irrational.

    They have no arguments remaining and the game is up, so they turn to fists. They’re cavemen — and yet they’re the same cunts who talk constantly about “class”. This in a lame attempt to cover over the failure of Wenger, who has made Arsenal an irrelevant also-ran for some ten years now.

  53. Bamford10

    Definitely was never a great manager. A good manager with a few good ideas — who happened to have one of the best squads in PL history, a squad so loaded with players of character and intelligence that they largely managed themselves on the pitch.

  54. Pierre

    With regard to the bit of aggro at the end of the game, in my opinion, it was nothing to do with fans who support Wenger having a go at arsenal fan TV and protesters. it was fans who support the arsenal who have had enough of the protesters that are damaging the club. They are now fighting back and I reckon that soon there will be a protest against the Wenger out protesters. This protest won’t be in support of Wenger but in support of THE Arsenal. The Wenger out mob will crap themselves as the real arsenal fans begin to fight for the club(not Wenger)…

    Will be interesting to watch how it all pans out… It’s more exciting than the football to be honest.

    Come on Wenger, tell the world your leaving before there is a civil war at the emirates….

  55. David Smith

    Before Dein was sacked, and Kroenke came in Wenger had a period of greatness, not in Real Madrid terms, but in terms of the history of this club. And yes, I know Dein gave us Kroenke.
    I would get rid of Kroenke first every time, because these days, without Kroenke, Wenger wouldn’t last five minutes.

  56. Ishola70

    Like all reality TV Arsenal fan TV is now becoming tedious and boring . All reality TV over time suffers the same fate.

    But people should remember that Arsenal fan TV was absolutely instrumental in people initially talking and debating about Wenger to a greater degree than ever before and those wanting to see change at the club should be thankful for that.

  57. Emiratesstroller

    Let’s be clear the whole structure of the club is a complete mess at the moment.

    1. Kroenke is not a “football aficionado”. His interest is as a major shareholder
    and seeing a return on investment. He is more interested in what goes on in
    the company accounts.

    2. The Board have no vested interest in the club. Most are now in their 70s and
    and are there to rubber stamp Kroenke and Wenger decisions.

    3. Gazidis may or may not be a smart CEO but he has absolutely no say whatsoever in football matters.

    4. Wenger has been at club 20 years. No other major football club would accept the performance level of this season. Most of the major football clubs would have sacked him by now or at the very least refused to renew his contract.

    5. The first team coaching team are just a bunch of poodles who have been at
    the club too long. Steve Bould was a very good CB and played in an outstanding defence. Yet he sits on the bench like a dummy watching our defence playing
    like a bunch of idiots. What exactly do we pay him for if he cannot sort out
    these players? You don’t need to be world class to play in a solid defence.

    6. Arsenal do not play like a team. They are just a collection of individuals with
    no leadership or game plan.

    7. Our midfield is probably the worst I have watched since before the era of George Graham. Most of the recent recruits are no better than Championship
    level. The injuries to Cazorla highlight the deficiency of the rest of bunch.

    8. The Academy seems to be in no better shape and the club have still not replaced the Director.

    9. As Pedro and many others post we are completely rudderless.

    10. It will be very interesting to see how many season ticket holders refuse to
    renew their seats next season. My guess is that for the first time in many years
    Arsenal will discover that their waiting list is considerably smaller than has been advertised. I know that last season several people well down the waiting
    list were asked if they wanted to buy season tickets and several boxes were offered at substantial discount.

  58. Cesc Appeal

    Are the anti-Wenger fans not protesting for their club, if they view Wenger as a massive negative and so they feel obligated to create pressure and a narrative to try and get rid of that hindrance to success?

    Which by the way they have done. No doubt if the ‘respect’ club would have got their way Wenger would not be under the intense pressure he is now.

    And as for protesting protesters to ‘fight for your club,’ pass the sick bucket please, so you are protesting to try and improve the image of your club from anti-Wenger protest negativity by highlighting the immense divisions int eh fan base. That is the exact intelligence you expect from pro-Wenger fans who try to claim they are not pro-Wenger to establish a moral and objective superiority over the ‘agenda filled’ anti-Wenger fans.

    If you in anyway try to hinder pressure on Wenger then you are an anti-Arsenal ‘fan.’

    All these nobs who claims they want change but then proceed to say they don’t want to protest Wenger, don’t want people to protest, don’t want anyone to call for change and defend 99% of what Wenger and the team do, as transparent and weak as Wenger’s excuses. You’re a pro-Wenger fan, a begrudging confession the ‘time for change might have come’ or that Wenger should go not because he deserves to but ‘to stop fans fighting’ does not make you any less of a pro-Wenger fan.

  59. Cesc Appeal

    Pound to a pinch of shit if these protests were massively anti-Kroenke there would not be a peep about a ‘bad image’ being created for the club.

    Just nail your colours to the mast.

  60. Bamford10

    Pierre

    Really dumb. Anyone who continues to support Wenger at this point — whether vocally & explicitly or silently & implicitly — either (i) does not want what is best for Arsenal Football Club or (ii) doesn’t know his head from his ass and believes more of Wenger is what’s best for the club.

    Either way, this lot are awful. As I’ve said before, the AKB should have to beg and plead to be admitted into the stadium again post-Wenger.

  61. Bamford10

    I just reviewed the videos on Twitter and it was definitely AKBs who started the trouble on Sunday. Not surprising.

  62. Alexanderhenry

    Ishola

    ‘Unbelievable that still some want to deflect from Wenger.’

    No, it’s unbelievable that some fans are unable to work out that the buck stops with Kroenke. Of course in his case he stops those ‘bucks’ going where they should.

    ‘This crying about Kroenke. Yes he is not a good owner but people blub about him like he is doing a sneak here’.

    Ishola, he’s already done ‘a sneak’. He’s made fools of arsenal fans willing to keep paying the highest prices in football.

    ‘He was brought in because Arsenal wanted to be the opposite to Chelsea.’

    Well, we are the opposite of Chelsea. They are motivated by winning, we are motivated by profit.

    ‘The majority of the fanbase was anti-Usmanov’

    Not me. If he’d been in charge for the last ten years we’d have won PLs and CLs

    ‘Most of the fanbase were for an ideology that they all knew they were walking into and now because it looks like it has gone tits up they want to blame an owner who is only in his position because of this ideology.’

    The ‘ideology’ you’re talking about is nonsense. It’s a con and it doesn’t work and it’s not something most arsenal fans have ever been in favour of.
    All that crap about ‘making stars not buying them’, ‘investing in youth’ and being ‘proud about self sustainability’ was a ruse, a lie designed to placate fans as the club was hoarding cash.

    ‘Kroenke has taken Arsenal for a ride here and only has his selfish reasons but many should remember how he got into the position in the first place.’

    He’s doing more than that. He’s wrecking the club and has squandered the opportunity for arsenal to join the elite. In the next few years spurs’ match day takings will exceed ours. Also Chelsea, liverpool and everton are building new stadia.

    Kroenke ‘got into the position’ of running arsenal because our previous owners decided to sell up to him. It had nothing to do with the fans.

    He has to go and the only way this can happen is if fans stop renewing their season tickets in large numbers.
    If the club starts losing money he’ll be off faster than you can say ‘Kroenke sucks’

    http://metro.co.uk/2016/01/14/19000-ice-hockey-fans-hurl-abuse-at-arsenal-majority-shareholder-stan-kroenke-5622869/

  63. Bamford10

    One sees in Alexander’s posts that the AKB is developing a new bogus rationalization for Wenger’s failures: fan unrest. Despite the fact that we only have fan unrest because of years and years of Wenger’s failure and bullshit explanations and commentary, and besides the fact that there has only really been “unrest” noticeable to the players in the past few games, I guarantee the AKB will not too long from now be blaming this season’s failures on “fan unrest” rather than Wenger.

    These are honestly some of the most fucking pathetic people who have ever walked the planet. I mean that sincerely, and I live in a country that elected Donald Trump.

  64. Pierre

    Rhys jagger
    “However, you only have to look at Spurs and Liverpool to see how to get into top 4”

    Do you mean THE spurs and Liverpool who have gone a combined total of 81 years without winning a league title… yeah, let’s copy their model and see where it gets us

  65. Bamford10

    “All that crap about ‘making stars not buying them’, ‘investing in youth’ and being ‘proud about self sustainability’ was a ruse, a lie designed to placate fans as the club was hoarding cash.”

    Wenger believed (and believes) in all of that — deeply. See his recent talk of the “values” of Arsenal Football Club being the most important thing.

    Alexanderhenry showing again that he literally doesn’t know the first thing about Arsene Wenger, his beliefs, his principles, his values.

    The notion that Wenger was forced to say all of the above by Kroenke is fucking ridiculous — just as ridiculous as the claim that Kroenke only gave Wenger 10m to spend two summers ago.

    Why do we still have to read this moron’s posts, Pedro?

  66. Ishola70

    Alex H to try to deny that the majority of the fanbase were not brainwashed at this time by the ideology that we are talking about is wrong. They were. It was all about being the opposite to Chelsea.

    Going on about youth all the time (that James that guests on Arseblog now had his own website about Arsenal youth players FFS at the time and it was a hugely popular website), playing a whole team of babies in the League Cup and Wenger spouting off to the press about dirty oil money whenever he had the chance. In fact Wenger was the leading face really in this ideology which he was communicating to the fanbase.

    The fans may not have got Kroenke physically in his position but most happily went along with it some with gusto like Wenger himself.

  67. Bamford10

    Alexander

    If you were owner, would you keep Wenger on or replace him?

    Please don’t tell me about the money you’d spend. I’m not asking about that. Would you or would you not keep Wenger?

  68. Bamford10

    Ishola

    Wenger was the one who most wanted to be the anti-Chelsea. This is obvious. This is why he didn’t even spend what was available to him at times. To prove a point, i.e., that he was opposed to the new spending approach, that he could compete without such spending, that Arsenal had different “values”. This was obvious years ago.

    Then he failed utterly and realized he’s probably have to spend a little bit. Then he failed again even after doing that.

    Best of all worlds is Wenger leaves Arsenal, goes somewhere else and fails miserably. Yes diehard AKBs will try to rationalize even that failure, but it should put the nail in the coffin (for all sane folks) once and for all.

  69. WestLondonGoon

    The problem with AFTV as I see it, is that is giving too much of a platform to the same faces who are obviously beginning to believe that they are super-fans.

    If it was different people every week, it would at least give us a more balanced view of how people feel out there, instead it’s the same mouthpieces every time, and frankly it becomes pretty repetitive. Some people seem to be doing very nicely out of the demise of our club, and that, rightly or wrongly, is always going to anger people.

  70. Bamford10

    Pierre

    At least Liverpool contended for a title in recent years. Wenger hasn’t managed that in a decade.

  71. David Smith

    When Wenger has gone, the anger will turn to Kroenke, because whoever the next manager is….yes, the defence might be better, might even be quicker on transfers, players may even communicate, but he will have other faults…..and the stasis will most likely remain the same.
    The consistently successful clubs seem to chop and change managers until they hit the jackpot, they spend a fortune on players and pamper super agents . What part of Kroenke is going to indulge that?
    I think Wenger should go, and really hope he does, but let’s see what changes. I think even Ivan is possibly a bit naive as to what will change.
    Kroenke is the worst owner possible for a club this size, not because he doesn’t know about football, not even because he watches the bottom line, but because he doesn’t give a shit about success, ambition or pretty much anything the fans do.
    The previous board made a fortune but allowed themselves to be sold a rancid , lame, diseased ,flea ridden pup

  72. Alexanderhenry

    One sees in the WOB argument a total inability to grasp the fact that the owner of a football club is ultimately responsible for the fortunes of that club.

    One also sees a strange and bafflingly idiotic inability to comprehend the difference between an ‘owner’ and a ‘manager’ and to understand the roles they play.

    Finally, the more extreme WOB will always resort to insult before evidence. Resorting to petty name calling only highlights a lack of any sound argument .

    I’ve posted article after article after article from reputable sources on both sides of the atlantic, and from numerous journalists, pundits and professionals covering all four sports our illustrious Mr Kroenke owns teams in.

    The evidence is utterly overwhelming.

    He is spectacularly unsuccessful, notoriously mean, universally disliked, unashamedly silent and horribly arrogant.

    Arsenal’s problems and overall stagnation are down to him.

    Unless he sells up we’re fucked.

  73. Bamford10

    David Smith

    “and the stasis will most likely remain the same”

    Why? If they hire a good manager, why would there be stasis? You seem to be under the impression that a manager must be instructed by his owner to win things, to aim for greatness. This is complete and utter horse-shit. No top manager needs to be told to aim for such things.

    Nor has your ilk ever explained why the owner or board would deliberately hire another mediocrity. Given they can hire a better manager than Wenger for less than they pay Wenger, and given said manager doesn’t need a budget than the one Wenger has been allocated, why wouldn’t they hire the best manager possible?

    They wouldn’t. Your argument is groundless and makes no sense.

  74. Bamford10

    Alexander

    One, you didn’t say what you would do re Wenger if you were owner. Please tell us.

    Two, are you saying Kroenke hasn’t given Wenger ample money to spend over the past 5-6 years? That’s complete and utter nonsense, and everyone here knows it.

  75. Ishola70

    Bamford10:
    “Wenger was the one who most wanted to be the anti-Chelsea. This is obvious. This is why he didn’t even spend what was available to him at times. To prove a point, i.e., that he was opposed to the new spending approach, that he could compete without such spending, that Arsenal had different “values”. This was obvious years ago.”

    Well yes he is on record in the past for his anti- oil money clubs and anti- big spending remarks to the press.

    But when you say he was the one that most wanted to be this anti-Chelsea really the club as a whole had to find a way to sell the club to the fans at that time. And it wasn’t winning big trophies. That is when the values and winning the right way not Chelsea’s way became the mantra of the club and the club have still not come out of that mindset. Couple that with a manager who is past his sell by date and you see the position of the club atm.

    Wenger was instrumental in getting across this ideology to the fanbase.

  76. Bamford10

    Ishola

    “the club as a whole had to find a way to sell the club to the fans at that time. And it wasn’t winning big trophies”

    I don’t agree with this. Not at all. In the same way that Atletico and Dortmund compete for big trophies without being able to spend what their competitors spend, so too could Arsenal.

    Arsenal supporters didn’t need to be told to console themselves with other things. What they needed to be told was that those big trophies would have to come from intelligent scouting, development, hard work, etc. etc.

    But Wenger took it a step further and made not spending and being the anti-Chelsea an end in itself. All of the things the club cited could and should have been means to an end, and that end is competing for titles. But Wenger fetishized them and made them into ends in themselves.

  77. Alexanderhenry

    Ok Bamford

    My position on wenger is this:

    As things stand, he should leave. As I’ve said before, this season he has disappointed. He is 67 and looks past it or at least in need of a change.
    My biggest criticism of him is the fact he’s been so loyal to Kroenke. He has effectively shielded Kroenke from blame. David Smith is right. Regardless of anyone’s opinion on wenger, he needs to go in order to expose Stan.

    Over the past ten years, do I think he’s a done a bad job?

    Not at all.

    Do I think arsenal will be better off after he’s gone?

    Absolutely not.

    Why?

    Because arsenal will not replace him with a suitable coach and will not invest what’s needed to make arsenal truly competitive.

    You think wenger has been the reason for arsenal’s poor showing in recent years and have said many times that you are convinced things will improve after he goes.

    I think Kroenke is the reason for arsenal’s poor showing and things will deteriorate further when wenger leaves.

    There is a vast amount of evidence that shows that Kroenke is an uncaring, profiteering, lousy owner and his record is pathetic.

    Why do you chose to ignore this?

    Why would you think arsenal’s future is bright under this man?

  78. Alexanderhenry

    Bamford

    ‘But Wenger took it a step further and made not spending and being the anti-Chelsea an end in itself. All of the things the club cited could and should have been means to an end, and that end is competing for titles. But Wenger fetishized them and made them into ends in themselves.’

    You have no evidence to back this up. It’s pure speculation.

    Watch this:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/37051404

  79. Ustyn

    One also sees a strange and bafflingly idiotic
    inability to comprehend the difference between
    an ‘owner’ and a ‘manager’ and to understand
    the roles they play.

    The manager in this case seems to be the owner if not he would have announced if he’s staying or not but because the supposedly owner cares only about the cash so he automatically becomes the owner cum manager and does as he like

    Wenger out

  80. Alexanderhenry

    Read these:

    http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/stan-kroenke-i-didnt-buy-arsenal-stake-to-win-trophies-a3202046.html

    http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/bayern-munich-boss-carlo-ancelotti-arsenal-and-manchester-united-owners-more-interested-in-finances-a3421361.html

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2396845/Lady-Bracewell-Smith-reveals-deep-regret-selling-Arsenal-shares-Stan-Kroenke.html

    http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/arsenals-majority-shareholder-stan-kroenke-more-motivated-by-money-a7619426.html

  81. Ishola70

    Bamford10:
    “the club as a whole had to find a way to sell the club to the fans at that time. And it wasn’t winning big trophies”I don’t agree with this. Not at all. In the same way that Atletico and Dortmund compete for big trophies without being able to spend what their competitors spend, so too could Arsenal.”

    I understand what you are saying but Arsenal had to fill out this new ground they were moving into. they just had to, so if they could not win the big trophies to fill it out that they had to grasp on an ideology that would see fans keep turning up week in week out.

    Arsenal has a good fanbase of course but a club like Dortmund that you mention they went through bad depression times in the past but Dortmund is like a big northern EPL club and that area in Germany is just about football so they can always depend on a big fanbase to always turn up in any circumstances. Dortmund supporters don’t need an ideology to cling onto to turn up to see their team. It is in their blood to go see their team and in very large numbers. Not the same case in London.

  82. David Smith

    Bamford, Atsenal might well sign one of the decent managers out there….maybe allegri, sampaoli, but these guys would be demanding, banging on the bosses door demanding players, big wages. Things Wenger clearly hasn’t done.
    Yes, they could sign one of these , or Tuchel. They could just as easily sign Martinez /Henry.
    I think we all , maybe for different reasons agree Wenger should go, but then, we find out what Kroenke really is. It is possible, contrary to the experience of numerous US fans, we might find him ambitious, passionate , driven to do the best for the club. But there is nothing out there to indicate Kroenke will be any of these things.
    Yes, we can get a decent manager, but ambition and drive needs to come from the top and filter downwards, feel free to present any evidence Stan will imbue the club with such qualities…….the guy even admitted he is not interested in titles, doesn’t get much clearer than that.

  83. David Smith

    when Wenger departs, of the club choose a poor manager, if they don’t fund him to the extent they can, then the fans will unite against the owner, they could even create a momentum whic may cause him to sell.
    If they do a good job with the new manager and funding him, nothing to worry about, everyone is happy , ideal utopia
    We shall see.
    If Kroenke was truly caring, and ambitious, he would put a burnt out club great who seemingly cannot reach his players out of his misery, force him to move on to newer pastures where he may even find fulfilment again,stop hiding behind him, and not force humiliation on him by letting Ivan make much needed restructure on his own team.
    Wenger may likely chose to create his private hell in the coming weeks, a decent man who cared about him would save the manager from himself. So I guess Kroenke will let him sign.

  84. Bamford10

    Alexander

    So you agree that Wenger needs to go. Excellent.

    Aside from not firing Wenger, what has Kroenke done to hinder Arsenal Football Club? Nothing. The manager has had ample money to spend.

    Why would the owner and board deliberately hire a mediocrity? They wouldn’t. This couldn’t possibly benefit them, and they can hire someone better than Wenger for less money than Wenger costs.

    To compete with the best, do Arsenal need an owner who dips into his own money to finance transfers? No, they don’t. They simply need to use their own resources intelligently, and they need an excellent manager, something Wenger is not.

  85. Ishola70

    The fans demands for real success overtime would see Kroenke out anyway. Wenger would be the first domino to fall to see that process taking place.

    In the shorter term getting in a new manager that actually does sound tactics and can get his team to defend to a degree that can see genuine title challenges is by no means out of the realms of possibility and that applies with Kroenke or no Kroenke.

    Fanbase has got to change it’s mentality as well. I see so many views from fans that say they want Wenger out but they talk about the actual game of football still with their Wenger hats on. People can accuse Wenger of naivety in the way he wants to win but plenty of the fanbase show that same naivety. If fans continue to want to win in a certain way then forget about it all. May as well keep Wenger on until eternity.

  86. Bamford10

    David Smith

    “if they don’t fund him to the extent they can”

    Wenger has been given plenty of money. This is an empty canard.

  87. Alexanderhenry

    Bamford

    Kroenke has withheld funds. He has stockpiled cash at the club for years. He devised the unnecessary and damaging austerity period or ‘self sustainability ‘ period- whatever you want to call it.
    This saw arsenal chronically underinvest in players and sell off the better ones already at the club.

    This business plan was devised solely by him and arsenal fans while already being charged the highest prices in football , payed off a large part of the stadium debt for a billionaire owner who was too mean to contribute himself.

    It’s only since 2013 that the club has been prepared to spend any money at all (nett) on players. Since then it’s been too little to late.

    The idea that money has been made available to wenger all along and he’s chosen not to spend it, is totally far fetched. What’s even more far fetched is the idea that any owner in football would keep employing a coach who behaved like this.

    Kroenke does not care about arsenal, does not care about winning and in fact doesn’t really care about the success of any of his clubs. His only ambition is for his teams to be profitable. That’s it. He has no other concerns, and as his record shows, he’s very good at doing just that. What he isn’t good at is winning.

    How can you continue to ignore his lamentable record and awful reputation and expect to be taken seriously?

    How can you possibly have any confidence that he will make the right decisions for arsenal?

    What evidence can you produce that Kroenke has actually done anything positive for arsenal or any of his other teams over the years?

    Can you provide a single link to anything positive at all about arsenal’s majority shareholder?

  88. Alexanderhenry

    David Smith

    Kroenke is crapping himself at the thought of wenger leaving.

    With wenger gone, kroenke knows he will be exposed. He knows what arsenal fans will expect as well as journalists, pundits, players etc.

  89. Dissenter

    Sadly I called it right. I stated that Spuds have overtaken us and we will be struggling to attract the type of players that they now have.
    Think of all the time wasted on Coquelin and now Xhaka while Eric Died is quietly developing.
    Think of all the drama we’ve had with strikers while Harry Kane is slowly maturing into world class.
    Paul Merson is saying the same thing now.

  90. Redtruth

    If Wenger loved Arsenal he’d leave and call on fans to voice their disapproval on how bad the club is run…instead he does the complete opposite and promotes the regime…

  91. Bamford10

    Alexander

    Actually, the self-sustainable model was developed before Kroenke took over.

    And it hasn’t been Kroenke accumulating massive cash holdings — as these help him not at all — but Wenger.

    And Wenger has had tons of money to spend on transfers since 2011. And he has been spending massively on wages for some time now.

    You are simply in denial re the actual situation at Arsenal because, as I’ve mentioned before, you’ve had one idea in your entire life — Stan Kroenke is a bad owner! —and you must twist all facts to fit your narrative.

    That Wenger was opposed to spending on principle isn’t far-fetched at all. Not to anyone who has actually listened carefully to Wenger over the years, something you clearly haven’t done.

  92. mikem

    All this kronke bashing is well and good, but the fact remains that at the front and centre, we’ve had a man leading us up the garden path. That must surely have become evident to sensible people after,(long time before for me), his comment that he’d gladly accept nothing more than top 4 for the next 20yrs.
    Why the fuck would an arsenal fan want a man thinking along those lines managing the club?
    The man at the very top will go in good time, but first things first.

  93. TonyD

    I think we have seriously consider the finances here because ultimately it’s finances, which are going to determine AFC’s future and what happens next.

    Everything that is being posted here, ANR and other respectable sites is really a reiteration of what we already know about Wenger, Ivan, BoD, Kronke and the shambolic back room/scouting set up with the club’s playing/coaching infrastructure.

    I think most of us here come from a business background in one way or another; we all understand the virtues of revenue streams and the bottom line.

    Right now, I think certain people from the BoD and Ivan are painfully aware of the precarious position AFC is facing and is why Wenger hasn’t been able to say he’s signed the contract.

    I’m sure there was a contract on the table earlier in the season at Kronke’s bequest. However, I think it’s being modified as each week goes by, and as Arsenal slips further away form the profitable part of the league table.

    The club can sustain its financial position not having CL next season. The loss of £50m+ is not going to break the club on its own. However, I believe it’s the sponsors who are going to hold the biggest influence on AFC’s future.

    Wenger has lost his usual leverage position with the loss of the CL next season.

    The clubs KPIs are well and truly out of the reckoning at the moment if they ever existed at all in Wenger’s ivory tower.

    Right now the club is facing the dilemma of how to be sure to get back on a solid financial footing next season, and appeasing their sponsors/brand and being sure to get the CL back for 2018/2019.

    The club is realising that the supporter unrest is not just a few but so much more than that, which they must know by now is not going to go away. They also know how damaging this is to their precious brand positioning.

    The AST’s report must have hurt just as much as the vocal and visual unrest around the world is gaining momentum, which has to and is sure to continue.

    The more structured the overall protest movement becomes, the more damaging of the brand and its subsequent revenue is going to be lessened.

    The board know this and I’m sure they are enlightening Kronke. He and his son can’t be belligerent for ever, especially when they face revenue losses in the millions. When they (Kronke) truly understand that CL income is very difficult to get back and the reasons why this is so difficult, then and only then will they start to see the big picture of the club’s financial future or lack of it.

    If we can see it, they can; make no mistake about that.

    If the feelings/voices of the majority of the fans are continued to be made plain through continued protests and the players fail on the pitch as they are spectacularly doing now and have been doing, wholesale changes are going to have to be made. Not because We want them, but to get their sustainable model back on track.

    Up until now I think it’s been about “Face” where the arrogance of Wenger and the BoD/Kronke were not going to be dictated to by the lowly supporters.

    I’ve always subscribed to the view that when the financial stats of the club is is real danger, then the loss-of-face thinking by the powers that be are going to do a u-turn.

    Can’t wait to see how they spin that, but I won’t care because it will be the catalyst to rightfully make the right decisions to make Arsenal a winning club again or at the very least build a team with leaders and a winning mentality as Chelsea is showing us all how it is done.

    My take on all this is that the next eight weeks are going to be all-hands-on-deck scrambles in the boardroom and Kronke is going to have to have many things spelled out to him as to how the running of a successful English football club needs to be run in order to make the profits Kronke and his son want from their investment.

    Just maybe they will decide to cut out; take the profits they’ve enjoyed thus far and sell up because winning is what sponsors and supporters pay for, and winning is not part of the Kronke’s mission statement to make money.

    I’m sure the Kronkes are quickly realizing that England is a much more different proposition when it comes to a sport’s franchise than America.

    Populations of 60 million people vs 290 million people do make a difference.

    Do they have the stomach for it?

    Let’s hope not!

  94. Rambo Ramsey

    Typical, Bamford and Ishola start crying the moment someone mentions Kroenke. Deal with it you cunts, unlike you there are some who have more than two braincells.

  95. Jeff

    One of the biggest ongoing problems with Arsenal has been the slow cook approach to change. This charade, this pretence that everything is OK all the way from the bottom to top has been present for over a decade. The media are only now coming round to the reluctant conclusion that they’ve all been a bunch of morons all this time. Heaping praise on Wenger for finishing fourth. Heaping praise on him for the “changes” or the “revolution” or the “stadium” or the “consistency” or the three measly titles long ago or the “invincibles”.

    Yes but at what bloody cost? We remained static, became stale and so long as everyone else (fans, media, board, owner, manager) were all OK with it, no attempt was made or even conceived of to move this club into the modern era. It stayed back in the 1990s and the early 2000s. It hasn’t moved an inch since then (regressed if anything) and as the years went by nobody thought to ask “what the hell is going on”. That is until now. Quite a lot of the media are finally taking their heads out of their rectums and seeing things how they really are.

    Too little, too late. We lost over a decade fucking around being Arsene’s twilight project and now we’ve hit a brick wall. Our luck appears to have finally run out. We should never have been allowed to get into this situation. Everything was in place to take this club to the next level and instead we decided to just remain static thinking it is OK to just stay where we are.

    The longer it goes on, the deeper we’ll be digging ourselves in and the harder it will be to climb out. We might even reach the stage where top managers will steer clear of us because they don’t fancy the daunting task they’ll be faced with. We might already be there now.

  96. Alex Cutter

    “…the idea of being so angry about something that you’re willing to disgrace the badge of the club…”

    You fucking brits are cute: “disgrace the badge of the club”.

    As if that means anything anymore. 57% of clubs in England’s top two divisions are owned or led by foreign investors. The sport you grew up loving is dead.

  97. reality check

    Alex
    I think Kroenke is the reason for arsenal’s poor showing and things will deteriorate further when wenger leaves.
    \
    So no matter what happens, if stan stays, Arsenal are finished as a top flight club?

    Your disdain for stan confirms many things, which boggles the mind why you even watch Arsenal.

    1. Its all stans fault, nothing can be done.
    2.You believe all the players, the whole squad need to go because well, its not Wengers fault he couldn’t buy the better players to compete for big trophies.

    WOBs say, Wenger picks the team, selects the tactics, fails, so its his fault.

    You say, its Stans fault for withholding money, so no matter the team or tactics, we will fail because Stan withheld funds. So this entire squad isn’t good enough.

    I don’t see where your support of Arsenal is? No matter the circumstances, as long as stan is here we will fail so what about Arsenal have you been supporting since Stans arrival?

  98. Emiratesstroller

    It is crystal clear to me that so long as Wenger remains at the club there is unlikely to be any material change in the dynamics of how the club is run and perhaps more importantly the way we play our football.

    Kroenke is the major shareholder and clearly unwilling to offload the manager despite a serious decline in performance. He is not a “football man” and his interest in the club is always going to be the balance sheet.

    My guess is that at best we are going to see a “cosmetic” overhaul of the coaching staff at the club. We will appoint a new Academy Director and maybe one
    or two new coaches for the senior team. However, I don’t see significant change so long as Wenger stays and certainly not a Director of Football.

    There will be a major overhaul of football personnel by necessity. Both Sanchez and Ozil will leave as it is clear that they will not sign new contracts.
    My guess is that many of the younger English players will leave as well i.e.
    Wilshire, Ox-Chamberlain and Gibbs. Others who are likely to leave include
    Szczesny,Ospina, Campbell and Sanogo.

    If we are lucky the combined transfer fees of these players will be around £150
    million. It would have probably been more if Arsenal had not allowed the contracts to run down to final year.

    My guess is that Arsenal will be frugal in the transfer market, because of a] our spend last summer and b] the likelihood that we will not qualify for CL.

    The upshot is that Arsenal could well be a “mid table” team in transition next
    season. Personally I don’t see the club investing big money in team so long as
    both Kroenke and Wenger are in control of club and football matters.

  99. Rambo Ramsey

    ‘We might even reach the stage where top managers will steer clear of us because they don’t fancy the daunting task they’ll be faced with. We might already be there now.’
    ———————————-

    I think we’re already there, Jeff. The lack of structure and knowhow in this club hierarchy is absolutely appaling. Some people on here are stuck in la la land thinking a top manager will come in next and solve everything.

    There no longer exist top managers, what we have are top coaches who depend on the support of a proper footballing structure.

    I mean, we have all seen the amount of restructuring work the Manchester City board did before they got Pep to take over the coaching reign. Despite that, he’s still finding it hard. But you just know they’ll get there eventually because they have a owner and board fully committed to the cause.

    Bayern, Madrid, Barca, Juventus sadly I have to include even Chelsea in the list, all do well irrespective of who the manager is, we know why that is.

    Unless Arsenal put in a footballing structure in place, I doubt any manager worth his salt would take the job. This notion that any manager would love to take the Arsenal job because he’ll be given freedom is bs. Wenger may love the power but others may not like to shoulder all that responsibility.

  100. Mick Kartun

    Around 45,000 people of 60,000 capacity of our stadium or 75% are the total of ST Holders according to below.

    http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/527700/Premier-League-season-ticket-sales-revealed-sportgalleries

    If only half of them means more than 20,000 people like Stroller and others want to make an impact, not just moaning endlessly in a blog, then why not make a stand by doing A MASS WALK OUT OF 20,000 ST Holders since first minute kick off at the next home match with West Ham? Since it’s hard for them to give up the their ST or giving up to attend home matches at Saturday routine activities as like a must need instead of just watching it on TV.

    At least A MASS WALKOUT at first minute kickoff with 20,000 empty seats will be noted by the sponsors and commercial related parties for the club and the board to take notice. But with the level of ignorance and reluctance of the silent majority fans, no wonder this is impossible.

  101. Jeff

    Rambo,

    I agree with a lot of what you’re saying. But if getting rid of Wenger is proving difficult, just think how much more impossible it will be to get shot of Kroenke? Usmanov has closed his ears – doesn’t give a shit. Kroenke won’t sell in a million years. So we’re in a situation where everyone recognizes how much of an awful owner Kroenke has turned out to be but we have to start somewhere. And the easiest point at which any sort of recovery can start is by the change of manager.

    At least we’ll have some semblance of tactics, drive, ambition,mental rigidity so we don’t collapse at the first sign of trouble. Players might even start to give a fuck. This is what those of us who are advocating a managerial change are hoping for.

  102. Alexanderhenry

    Tony d

    Interesting points.

    The important thing in all this is whether arsenal can still be profitable outside the CL.

    As I’m sure you’re aware, ‘soccer’ is far less egalitarian than American sports .A club”s fall from grace in England can be sudden and spectacular.

    Being out of CL football will be a major blow to arsenal and there will losses in revenue directly and indirectly – how many season tickets will remain unrenewed ? How many shirts not bought?

    How will kroenke react?

    Hopefully he’ll sell up.

  103. Wallace

    good article…

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2017/apr/03/manchester-city-arsenal-stasis-emirates-pep-guardiola-arsene-wenger

    “Sané continues to bloom. It is a potent combination based on speed, swift passing, the freedom to dribble and above all sustained width.

    This all comes from coaching and persistence. In early season Guardiola became so irritated by Sterling’s tendency to creep inside, defying orders, that he had a chalk spot painted on the training pitch and told him: “When in doubt, just stand there.”

    Sterling, who is a real eager beaver, took it the right way. He does stand on his spot these days, just as Sané, on the other side, also seems to be improving with every game…

    Indeed right now Sané and Sterling are perhaps the most interesting aspect of Guardiola’s first season, if only for evidence of hope, progress and an enduring ability to cast his peculiar kind of magic. Much was made of Pablo Zabaleta’s suggestion, offered with a chuckle, that some City players have been “bored” by Guardiola’s obsession with tactical analysis, just as Jérôme Boateng had spoken with real enthusiasm about the bracing agony of watching whole Bayern games again in Guardiola’s presence, with every mistake picked apart and magnified.

    But it makes for an interesting point of contrast with the talk of stasis and comfort zones around their opponents on Sunday. City may have spent twice as much as Arsenal in the past two seasons. They may have a flaky backline of their own. But on the pitch there is at least a sense of a plan being winched into place, where even the defensive mistakes, the insistence on taking chances, are part of a design being sketched out.”

  104. Redtruth

    Whose to blame for squandering £90m on duds..Is it the better late than never owner or is it the manager whose team finished second last season.

  105. Globalgunner

    I dont get all the kroenke blaming here. Kroenke came in 2012. At that time we had not won the league for 8 years and last won anything of note in a cowardly showing against United in the FA cup, which we won on penalties. We had started to stagnate well before Kroenke came in. In fact Kroenke could be classified as the ideal owner. Allows his manager to spend as long as it is within the clubs finances. Just dont expect him to dip his hand in his own pocket. It is up to the manager to have the self drive to want to succeed beyond the bare minimum. This is where Wenger exists. In the plateau of the barest minimum, achieving only enough to keep his job. Wenger could not care less if we never won another title till he is 80 years old. He just wants to be left alone doing his thing, buying duff players believing they are potential superstars and using the same tactics for every single game, He cant believe that his dear cherubs are not setting the world on fire playing their game. The man is deliriously mental, He has to be driven out or he could be here another 10 years.

  106. Rambo Ramsey

    “In fact Kroenke could be classified as the ideal owner.”

    I never thought I’d ever read something like this. Arsenal really has too many buffoons as its fans.

    Thank fuck Kroenke ‘allows’ the club to spend money that is extortioned out of fans. And thank fuck he allows his underlings to set themselves the parameters of success. What a great, great owner he is!

  107. R.S.P.C.Arsenal

    Good read

    I still maintain that he should play chambers n holding next season

    We know he is staying

    They can do no worse than the two schmucks playing there now

  108. Alexanderhenry

    Global gunner

    Kroenke bought his initial stake in 2007. He gained full control in 2011.

    Arsenal has been a wonderful investment for him. The fans have been paying off the stadium debt on his behalf, the share price has doubled and he’s had a manager willing and able to run the team on the cheap and take all the blame when it goes wrong.

  109. TonyD

    Jeff
    Mick K
    Rambo

    All great posts, especially the point in the BT clip where he says:

    “if Arsenal don’t pay what Sanches wants, the message will be out there for al the quality players.”

    The problem is that the other messages saying:

    4th is a trophy
    Leaderless team
    Zero tactics especially defensively
    You can’t voice opinions
    Clueless manager
    Spineless board
    No club ambition other than to maximize profits
    Now no CL for 2017/2018

    Who would want to come to Arsenal and see his career stand still or decline or be played to death?

    The above messages are plain to see and impossible to ignore.

    We can look forward to either Diaby like injury prone players or the likes of Sonogo players who would struggle to play for Sunderland at the moment.

    Wenger’s tenure has been full of them so that Wenger can keep Kroenke ‘s pockets full and keep his job.

    To name